Teaching BattleBots in High School

Some Guy writes: "We all know that everyone's favourite TV show is BattleBots on Comedy Central, Right? Well, a new program has started at my old high school that teaches BattleBots to kids. It's a truly engaging engineering program/curriculum that kids and school systems can use for credit. The program is called BattleBots IQ. Kids out there can get their teachers to go to battlebots training camps during the summer, and then have them teach battlebots to them as a class. I wish it was around when I was a kid."

Comments

I always loved that stuff

[192939495969798999]

Remember the pre-battle bots competitions at MIT? I wanted to go to MIT just to be able to do that!
sir_haxalot

Useful subject

[BlueFall]

And when the apocalypse comes, this will become even more practical!

I would like to see.

[Real World Stuff]

More focus on the fundamentals. This only furthers the chasm for equality of quality education. There are public schools where kids are trying to learn the fundamentals of math ans scicene in an environment with leaky roofs and inadequate heating. Sure, schools that can afford to offer a battle bot curriculum usually do not face this type of challenge. But what is the percedntage. Rather invest in this type of project, wht not buy some kids some CURRENT TEXTBOOKS! For those that own any property and pay taxes, you should understand what I am saying.

Re:I would like to see.

[mOdQuArK!]

Just fundamentals are "boring", and kids tend to forget them right after the next test - unless they have some kind of interesting project where they can _apply_ those fundamentals.

Re:I would like to see.

[MsGeek]

Listen, if this had existed 30 years ago when I was in elementary school I wouldn't have the problems with mathematics that currently bedevil me.

Fundamentals are fine but they don't hold kids' attention spans. If you can get kids doing something FUN then show them how it relates to math and science, they'll soak it up big time.

Re:I would like to see.

[Kaboom13]

As a high school student in South Florida(where Battlebots IQ originated), and a participant in the FIRST Robotics Competition (Battlebots IQ is run by the same person who used to run an unofficial FIRST competition called Mayhem in Miami), I feel obligated to respond. The school you describe is only found in the poorest or the poor districts. That kind of school system definitly is not worried about a battlebot curriculum. They are few and far between. As far as current textbooks, all the new textbooks I've seen and used have been vastly inferior to the ones it replaced. My brand new calculus book is completely useless as anything other then a source for problems for home work. Trust me on this, new textbook != better textbook. Furthermore, this program is no more expensive then any athletic team, and is, in my opinion, a much better use of our funds.

Re:I would like to see.

[Tablizer]

(* More focus on the fundamentals. This only furthers the chasm for equality of quality education. There are public schools where kids are trying to learn the fundamentals of math and scicene in an environment with leaky roofs and inadequate heating. *)

Hmmmmm. That is the exact conditions where all those Vietnamese national honor students grew up in.

Based on that sample, perhaps leaky roofs and no A/C/heat will make for *better* students.

Besides, studying leaky roofs helps students learn about practical engineering and fluid dynamics.

Building Future Engineers

[Alien54]

This sort of thing is a great whay to get kids into engineering.

If I recall right, there has been a decline in engineers in school in the USA. So this would be a good way to promote that sort of thing.

Unless the workforce gets shipped out overseas.

Re:Building Future Engineers

[Alien54]

true, although maybe it's a good thing for all of us current college (or high-school) future engineers. Less supply available to industry == more $$$ for us ;-)

Then you should find this story interesting, from Silicon India:

• India's computer industry is booming despite a slowdown in IT sales worldwide, and its technology capital Bangalore is leading the charge. Karnataka, whose capital is Bangalore, aims to boost exports of software and allied services by 60 percent this fiscal year, twice the expected Indian growth rate of 30 percent.

  [...] (much detail ommitted)

  Building on India's proven software skills, foreign firms are also flocking to set up centres to process financial claims, payroll data and build customer support desks. Commerce and English language graduates are in great demand. - While the technology sector has been hit worldwide, accompanying cost-cuttting measures are a boon for Bangalore. - "The majority of the companies in U.S. are under cost pressure and that's why we expect them to continue to move into India, which offers them a ready-made talent pool," Kulkarni said. - "Cost obviously is the driving force but that doesn't mean that quality is being compromised," he said.

  In Bangalore, software engineers can be hired for about $200 per month, nearly one-tenth of what it costs in the United States. The city of about 5.5 million people is home to over 120,000 IT workers.

Interesting

[anthony_dipierro]

Teaching violence and destruction to our nation's youth in order to increase the corporate revenues of Comedy Central. Thank God vouchers were deemed constitutional.

Re:Interesting

[anthony_dipierro]

Tell that to the loser... I bet his feelings are hurt. And what about the robot? Prove to me that robots can't feel pain and then maybe I'll agree with you.

Re:Interesting

[anthony_dipierro]

And vouchers are the death of public education. It pains me to see you care more about inanimate objects than the growing disenfranchisement of the low-income working class.

Huh? How does a voucher system contribute to the disenfranchisement of the low-income working class? Are you SERIOUS?

Re:Interesting

[anthony_dipierro]

Until you realize that the children most in need of fully-funded public education come from families who, even with the voucher grants, can't afford to send the children to "proper" schools.

Hmm... I thought the vouchers paid for the entire cost of education. I guess I can see how that would be a problem if it doesn't. Yeah, you're probably right. Thanks for the info.

FIRST

[NASAKnight]

I am involved in the FIRST (For Inspiration and Recognition in Science and Technology) program. The main difference between FIRST and battle bots is that battle bots focusses on money and ratings, while FIRST focuses on educating our nations youth. You can go to FIRST's website to find out more--it's a huge program, the stadium for nationls (which is rebuilt each year) is bigger than the Orlando Magic stadium (we even have teams from England, Canada, and Brazil). Also to note, the founder of FIRST (Dean Kamen) is the guy who invented the segway. Basically, I would much rather see more schools enter into FIRST than battle bots, because FIRST focuses on LEARNING and GRACIOUS PROFESIONLISM, while battle bots focusses on MONEY.

Re:FIRST

[donnacha]

The main difference between FIRST and battle bots is that battle bots focusses on money and ratings, while FIRST focuses on educating our nations youth.

Hmmm, I know which one I'd turn up to class for : )

Re:FIRST

[guttentag]

The unfortunate reality is that in most jobs (unless you work for the government), "gracious professionalism" is seen as a liability, while "ruthless marketing" is considered a virtue.

Corporations -- and even some public universities that behave like corporations -- worship the god of profit because at the end of the day, that's what pays everyone's salaries (actually that's a corporate myth, but it may as well be true because if you're not contributing to profitability you're likely to get "laid off"). They'd rather hire the kid who won $1,000 building a robotic monster that desroyed the competition than a FIRST national finalist, and many parents/educators are going to favor Battlebots over FIRST for that reason.

Re:FIRST

[SuperJ]

You are sorely mistaken if you think that FIRST isn't about money. FIRST does very little to teach kids, the real goal of FIRST is to have a big engineering firm build a robot for a high school and have the high schoolers watch with amazement, think "gee, this is cool" and become engineers in high school. If FIRST was really about learning it wouldn't cost so much to enter, and there would be more restrictions about the amount of work that adults were allowed to put in on the robot.

In FIRST, there are teams who's robots are completely built by students, and there are teams who's robots are completely built by engineers from big companies, and guess who always wins. (they even win the community awards, since the team usually has more time to do work in their community because their sponsoring company is building their robot).

Re:FIRST

[bok-choi]

That's not always true. I joined a first-year team this year in high school, and we were lacking in funds. In fact, we didn't have any sponsors donating money until the competition was over, and then we only had 1 sponsor. We had 3 advisors, but the students did all the work. At the Pacific Northwest regional competition, we managed to place 5th out of about 40 teams, and also got the "Team spirit award." And I think the Microsoft-sponsored team didn't even make it to the top 8.

Learning isn't fun

[meta-monkey]

I have mixed feelings about stories like this. Why does learning have to be fun? Parents and schools try to get kids interested in math, reading, and, in this case, engineering, by turning it into some kind of game. There are educational computer games, board games, flash cards, and "fun" courses like this.

However, in the real world, learning, and science, are quite often not fun. They are often tedious and frustrating, and it's important for kids to learn that lesson. There are other rewards for learning besides "fun" and kids need to learn that, or when they get beyond the educational computer games and battle bots high school classes, and encounter the tedious and frustrating world of real science/mathematics/engineering and discover it's not "fun" they may just give it up entirely.

Re:Learning isn't fun

[Froobly]

Your post seems to legitimize the fact that many schools across America are teaching as preparation for factory work; i.e. it's not about enjoying what you're doing, or making effort to excel, but about showing up and putting in your time. Really, who makes extra effort to excel when they don't enjoy it? Well, besides those abusive ultra-competitive households...

Do we really need more busywork in our schools? I've known students from schools that have fun and interesting programs like this, and from my unscientific experience, the ones who had classes like this generally have a much stronger long-term interest in math and science than those who didn't. It usually takes terrible University professors to beat it out of them...

Re:Learning isn't fun

[meta-monkey]

I'm not advocating busy work. My point is that learning has many, many rewards that are significantly more important than "fun." That is, learning is work for the sake of self-improvement, and the improvement of society as a whole. Busy work is pointless...work for the sake of work, and has no reward. Teach children to learn to improve themselves and the world in which they live, not so they can have fun. To bring learning down the level of fun is to put it on the same shelf as watching wrestling and playing video games.

Re:Learning isn't fun

[marhar]

I agree with your main point that sometimes learning is just tedious hard work.

However, it's a big plus if the student is motivated by an interesting ("fun") task so that the student will be willing to plow through the hard work of doing the actual learning.

In addition, it's often easier to learn science/math if you have actually mentally wrestled with a problem where the science/math you're learning would actually help with the solution.

Interesting

[anthony_dipierro]

Teaching violence and destruction to our nation's youth in order to increase the corporate revenues of Comedy Central. Thank God vouchers were deemed constitutional.

Liability?

[sam_handelman]

"No, Your Honor, the children were just making Killer Robots. We had no idea it wouldn't be safe."

I'm amazed that the school's legal department allows this kind of thing. Battlebots are probably safer than rocketry (which my elementary school wouldn't let us do for legal reasons) but still, the potential is there for serious injury. It's probably easier to get this sort of thing allowed in High School. I wonder how heavily they emphasise safety? Based on my quick review of the two rules documents, they've at least had the good sense not to allow guns, bombs or cattleprods. Also, the Robot has to be safe to handle while off; but that may not be enough protection - I realize the stuff in the shop room down the hall is actually far more dangerous, but it doesn't involve the sanctioned game of using it as a weapon.

Play careful, Kids! Don't ruin the fun for future generations by chopping any of your toes off.

Also, just once incident of a robot with a chainsaw chasing screaming teenagers down a hallway would put a quick end to the program, I'd assume.

New York Times article

[theoramus]

There was a story comparing BBIQ and FIRST a while back. It turns out that Dean Kamen (founder of first) doesn't really like battlebots. Go figure...

Perspective

[X-Nc]

"I wish it was around when I was a kid."

Hell, I wish they had computers when I was a kid.

Re:Learning IS fun

[helarno]

I have to respectfully disagree with your hypothesis that learning isn't fun. Granted, some parts are tedious, some parts are repetitive and frustration is no stranger during the learning process. However, the joy of discovery, the eureka moment when it all clicks into place, the self-confidence when you realize you have mastered a subject - I say all these more than counterbalance the tedious aspects of learning. Learning is its own reward. Mastering a matter makes it a joy all of its own.

Especially in this crowd, claiming that learning is no fun won't fly. What geek hasn't encountered frustration configuring something in linux? What geek hasn't repetitively typed man (subject)? Yet I will lay odds that few geeks will claims computers are no fun, that linux is boring.

Pardon me for preaching off a soapbox, but the attitude that 'learning isn't fun' bugs the hell out of me. It is that attitude that keeps people watching TV rather than reading a good book, or play video games till 5am while neglecting homework. The rewards aren't as immediate as other activities but learning IS fun, rewarding and enjoyable as long as we stick to it.

So make battlebot classes fun. I'll guarantee you that if those kids are actually building those bots, they'll encounter the tedium and frustration of engineering. But will that stop them from having fun in the end? Probably not. But it may encourage some of them to try something they never would have, and learn something in the process.

Bubba gets into engineering

[Animats]

This is gonna go over big in monster truck country. You need somebody around who can teach the kids to weld. And really weld, not just tack.

The great day, though, will be when autonomous bots start winning with faster-than-human reaction times.

Re:Everyone knows Robot Wars is better.

[AndroidCat]

RobotWars is to BattleBots like Iron Chef is to Iron Chef - American version hosted by William Shatner.

Building robots in school reminds me of the Far Side cartoon of some pimply kid saying to his teacher "Hey, I want to talk about that D you gave me in shop", with a giant killer robot looming behind him.

Re:Everyone knows Robot Wars is better.

[meringuoid]

I don't know why it is, but the moment American media gets hold of something, it turns it into bland, flavorless mush. Is it really so hard to come up with a half hour of entertaining television, devoid of filler?

Um, the Americans had this before the UK. Biohazard astounded the crowd by self-righting, a full two years before Rex's legendary backflip. Blendo tore opponents to shreds long before Hypnodisc came up with an inferior implementation of the flywheel weapon.

I think the main reason UK Robot Wars is so good as regards the action / bullshit ratio is that we have so _many_ robots to get through. There's simply no time for filler material. Anyone with a bit of mechanical ability can knock together a robot, and getting it down to London is hardly a transcontinental commute.

Personally, I just want to get hold of a video of Razer on Battlebots. Their website brags like mad about that.

Re:Dean Kamen

[jbarket]

Probably. I participated in FIRST my senior year in high school, and it was a hoot and all--but the reason I was interested was because of Robot Wars. While I think FIRST is probably more difficult to get started with--I mean, you're doing alot more with the robot than running somebody over, bashing them, etc--there's just something alot more appealing about being able to mindlessly punish your opponents.

Other Programs

[OctaneZ]

Not everything has to be about robots!
When I was in Elementary and Middle Schools I was in a program called Odyssey of the Mind. This was a great program, with teams of 7 students, who would comptete in both a long and short program. For the long program (8 minutes), the team had a few months and a limited budget, and was allowed to choose one of the 5 problems to solve, Here are Last Years. There was alao a short program, where you were given a set of supplies, 1 min to brainstorm, and then 3 minutes to do it. Usually this challenge took the form of building something, such as the tallest twoer you could with toothpicks and shaving cream, that could survive a 5mph wind, something like that. It was a great program, and wasn't limited to engneering tyes.
There a programs like both OM and US FIRST, or the new robot wars in a lot of communitites, and whether you like their current format or not, we should all get involved. Many of us complain about the current state of education, and I have already seen people complaining about schools, and thanking vouchers. If you think these programs are great, get involved! If not get involved anyway and bring your experiences and incites to a younger group.
-OctaneZ

Re:Other Programs

[jandrese]

Is it just me or are two thirds of those challenges, in actuality, dorky plays? I was fidgeting uncomfortably in my seat just reading the challenge description.

I have to admit, the Chameleon Car sounded like an cool project. I wonder if you had to make a full size (driver sits inside) vehicle, or if you could just do it with radio control? For $135 your budget will be very tight on any full sized car.

My High School had a Battlebots Team

[SirJimbo]

My former (just graduated) high school had a Battlebots IQ team. They put up a website , which details their robot, E2, and the competition. They did quite well, winning 6 in the double elimination format. I didn't participate in this, but I was involved in the Panasonic Creative Design Challenge, a robot competiton open to high school students in the State of New Jersey. I reccomend this competition to interested students, since I won a two grand scholarship that is going toward my EE degree.

Re:Learning IS fun

[meta-monkey]

You're absolutely right. Learning IS rewarding. Learning is often its own reward, and it's not the only reward. But it isn't always fun.

Like most /.'ers, I do enjoy learning about computers and technology. I'm also an electrical engineer. However, I have almost no interest in learning about, say, biology. It's boring and uninteresting. So why, then, do I read books on health matters, or watch the surgery shows on the Discovery channel? Because these things are important to know for my own health, and the health of my loved ones.

Learning about politics? Again, not fun. CSPAN is uber-boring. Why do I do it? Because I need to stay informed, so I can figure out which politician is going to screw me the least and vote for him.

There are many reasons to learn, probably the least of which is because "learning is fun." Learning makes us healthier, more productive, wealthier, better citizens, and better human beings. Teach kids THOSE reasons to learn, and they'll learn anything. Teach them "learning is fun!" and they'll be most disappointed when they find out you lied to them.

RoboCode a great teaching tool for software...

[(H)elix1]

For those trying to teach Java to kids, RoboCode is a great way to get them interested. They may not care about hello world in an applet, but pasting other folks tanks makes event handling fun.

great idea, but..

[interstellar_donkey]

It really depends on the curriculum. I have this image of thousands of high schools making their kids construct from an assigned and approved text. I'm sure companies will come along and start marking 'kits' that work with these assigned texts and designs.

The downside to this would be virtually identical bots in uninspiring battles. I really hope we don't see this. It would be nice if the course focused on basic engineering fundamentals and then found ways to foster innovation.

In either event, I'm happy to see this. Get people proficient in robotics at an early age, and by the time they become adults we will see some really amazing things.

Re:Oh Great

[telstar]

Nice to see education going down the shitter these days...

• Yeah ... Because applied mechanical engineering is really a waste of time. Anything legal and productive that gets kids thinking, working in groups, and motivated to work towards a goal is worthwhile in my opinion.

Robotics in education

[octalgirl]

It's great to have another player in robotics for education. The FIRST program was started by Dean Kamen, the Segway Human Transporter inventor, as a way to promote science and engineering to students. It starts with Lego robotics and has been around for several years. It's usually found in the K-8 grades and is a staple at MIT. Students learn how to write technical procedures, mechanical design, programming and engineering, and of course teamwork. For everything they do there is an attempt to align the tasks with other curriculum such as math, english and science. I volunteer for a middle school robotics club; a lot of work, but a lot of fun.

For the high school students the FIRST program (usfirst.org) gets serious. Here students build real robots designed to meet a specific challenge. AutoCAD and other software companies provide software grants to high schools so the students are getting the real thing. Local businesses involved in engineering usually provide volunteers to mentor the students. It can cost 1 school over 30K to compete at this level. rhodewarrior.org is a site from a high school in RI that has been involved from the beginning and scores pretty well.

The more the merrier, I think, when it comes to this kind of stuff. There has been some concern though, of making sure the students are truly meeting a challenge, and not just building something for the sake of going out and destroying things. The FIRST robotics programs usually involve designing a claw or figuring how many ping-pong balls you can pick up and get into a basket.

If you find yourself wishing you had this when you were in school, then ask around at your local school district - folks are always looking for volunteers.

Re:I've always wondered...

[MsGeek]

Absolutely Fabulous, darling. That justifies Comedy Central's existence more than anything else. And the original Whose Line Is It Anyway. Thank British TV, everyone...

Some things chever nange

[Tablizer]

"Mom! My homework ate the dog!"

Nooo!

[FrostedWheat]

We all know that everyone's favourite TV show is BattleBots on Comedy Central, Right?

Nooo! Robot Wars UK is way better!!

Re:Nooo!

[gruntvald]

And what about "Battle-Butts" on the playboy channel?

Battlebots doesn't get enough credit...

[Asprin]

Battlebots doesn't get enough credit. Really, they don't.

Unlike those other WWF-inspired hype and showbiz chainsaw shows, BB is still a game show about design and engineering. I wish they'd get some less obnoxious announcers and lose the babes doing the in-the-pits interviews (I know, I know, but The Man Show comes on right after it, right? Can't you do your oogling then?)

The other show that really deserves credit for this sort of thing is Junkyard Wars on TLC -- leave it to the Brits to come up with an entire game show about engineering, AND it's an hour long. This is better than The Secret Life Of Machines *AND* Connections.

Too bad more network programming crudholes can't do math or we'd see more of this sort of thing.

Re:I've always wondered...

[Enry]

I get BBC America, so I get all that and Father Ted too.

Viva FIRST!

[MacMasta]

Dean Kamen & Woodie Flowers have their heads attached correctly - FIRST is the only way to go.
People tend to ask me "So that's like battlebots, right?" when I tell them I'm a robotics nerd. I explain "No, battlebots has a serious flaw - it's easy to armor a robot, and very hard to build effective weapons within the rules. With FIRST, you have a goal - much a) harder and b) more useful in real life - problem solving and all that jazz.

So, Viva FIRST - we'll have a team in every High School in the US (and in several other countries - Brazil & Canada, for example) for many years after battlebots is off the air and forgotten.

~Mac~