Slashdot Mirror
Piers Anthony Unbound
1) Publishers and StarOffice?
by sparty
With larger documents and the importance of formatting in the publication process, have you had difficulty with publishers and document submission? If so, has your establishment (ie previously published work) allowed you to overcome opposition of the "we-don't-support-that" variety? Or did you find that publishers were open to alternate submission formats? Or were they already using other formats (I know some authors have actually typeset their works themselves, using LaTeX, but I assume they are few and far between).
In short, modern print publishing requires a lot of attention to detail and transmission of large documents electronically--how do you make it work with your chosen set of tools, when publishers probably don't expect authors to be using that paritcular set of tools?
Piers:
This has not been a problem with traditional publishers, because they're still in the dark ages with respect to computers and accept only printed out paper copies. In any event, my version is not the print version; mine is in 12 point Courier--almost universally required--which they then rekey in to their system and render in some other format. In the year 2050 when publishers catch up, then the author's computer formatting may be an issue, though maybe not, as it's so easy simply to change it at either end. On the rare occasions when a publisher does need an electronic version, I translate to the MS Word .doc format.
2) Juvenile vs Adult fiction
by MattW
I must have read at least 20 of your books between 11 and 17, but over time, they seemed to lose their luster. A lot of people I know had a similar fascination, and a similar segue into other reading. Do you believe that your work in fantasy is targetted at the juvenile market? Is that intentional or accidental? Have you had pressure from publishers over the years to try to be 'more mainstream' or perhaps specifically write to the young adult market?
Piers:
Your problem is that you grew up and disappeared into an adult; that's a fairly common disaster. Yes, Xanth is targeted at a juvenile market, though listed as adult; that's why you don't see it in lists of what children read. Those folk seem not to know what children and teens actually read, and the kids won't tell them lest their fun books get confiscated and burned. But I have two other remarks on this: first that I write for more than one level, and there is material in Xanth that adults can pick up on if they're alert; second that I do also write adult material, like the Adept, Incarnations, and Mode series. However, all publishers want from me is Xanth, and the more mature material is difficult to place. For example I am now completing the third quarter-million word novel in my thoroughly adult ChroMagic fantasy series, none of which has found a publisher. In due course I may self publish it so readers can see what kind I fantasy I write when I write for myself.
3) Personal Authors Notes - Bare feet don't stink.
by emptybody
In high school I read and re-read three series, Xanth, Apprentice Adept and Incarnations of Immortality. In 1988 my first son was born which drew most of my attentions away from your novels. In 1991 my second son and the real world drew me the rest of the way.
I see that there are now 10 more Xanth novels that I do not have. I guess I have some catching up to do!
Your authors notes were for me almost a series of their own. These, combined with your autobiography, "Bio of an Ogre", made me feel like I knew you. And gave new meaning and insight to most of your novels.
Have you ever thought of collecting them together into a book of their own? Sort of a Piers Anthony self retrospective or 'The Ogre Speaks Through the Ages.'
Piers:
I have thought of it because readers have suggested it, but this is another I'd have to self publish. Dedicated fans may be interested in the private ramblings of an ornery writer, but barring some accident of fate that makes me famous, like growing a second head, the wider public is not.
4) world building
by MORTAR_COMBAT!
When starting off creating a new world for your stories, do you concentrate a lot on historical and geographical background, or get right into your main story timelines? basically, what process do you find to be the best when setting the stage for the depth required for epic fantasy?
Piers:
It varies. Xanth just sort of grew around Florida, and there's very little background research. ChroMagic, in contrast, (see reference above) gets me into head-splitting spot research and thought throughout. That's the one with twin planets orbiting each other, the pair orbiting a conventional star named Vivid and a black hole named Void, so a tough choice is to be caught between Vivid and Void. The stress causes volcanoes to erupt everywhere, each with a different color of magic that makes things monochrome in its vicinity: shades of blue, shades of red, and so on. Yes, there is even one for White magic, otherwise called Science, the kind we know here, but it doesn't work elsewhere on the planet. People live near them and become the same colors, and can do magic of that color, or Chroma zone; travel to another zone and you lose your power of magic, which is tough. A Blue Chroma man is at a great disadvantage in a Red or White Chroma zone. That's just the background; you can see that plenty of thought went into it, and more into the culture and, oh yes, the wild story. So as I said, it varies, and each project is its own greater or lesser challenge.
5) Piers Anthony Fanfiction
by Bonker
Mr. Anthony,
From your in-story commentary and author's notes, we have a glimmering of your opinion on people who don't pay for books.
What is your opinion of people who borrow the books you've written from libraries. Also, what is your opinion of fan-authors who write fanstories based on your work?
Piers:
I approve of libraries; they enable folk to read widely who could not otherwise afford to. The fact is, if every library bought a hardcover copy of one of my books, it would be a bestseller. So I feel a library is a legitimate compromise between the author's need to earn his living and the reader's limited ability to buy books. As for fan authors: if they do it just for fun, credit the source, and don't try to sell their books, okay by me, though that notion may turn my agent's hair a shade of gray. It's the pirates who really bother me, stealing whatever I write, including what I self publish, as if trying to guarantee that I will go broke and have to take up sewer cleaning for a living. That's why I support Harlan Ellison's anti-piracy struggle.
6) Women in Xanth books
by SlashChick
Hi Piers,
I've had the chance to enjoy several of your Xanth books over the years. However, I find it disappointing that, like many sci-fi authors, you choose to include lots of "naked women" imagery in your books. This makes your books unappealing to the female side of your audience (including myself), and it makes it hard for me to recommend your books either to younger children or other women who might be interested.
I don't mind sex in books; what I (and a lot of other females) mind is the clear delineation of women as either sexual objects or as somehow "needing" a male to rescue them from various plights. Your earlier books did not have much of this imagery, and indeed the Xanth series seems relatively free of it, but I've noticed that some of your books do draw this conclusion. Unfortunately, the fantasy category seems to have more of this type of book than most other categories.
In a world of fantasy books dominated by male fantasies, what is your suggestion to the relatively few females who do enjoy fantasy and sci-fi books?
As a point of reference, I enjoyed the Phule series by Robert Asprin, as well as The Hitchhiker's Guide and, of course, several of the Xanth books.
Piers:
Some time we'll have to discuss why the sight of a naked woman as God made her should be considered to harm a child, but that's another issue. I wonder whether the females who enjoy fantasy are all that few; it's been a number of years since I tried counting the ratio of fan letters I received, but when I did it ranged from something like 60-40 to 80-20 in favor of female, and I believe I still get more fe-mail than male-mail. Much of it is for novels like Firefly and the Mode series, which do have juvenile female sex: they say that it's about time that someone addressed this matter honestly in fiction. I suspect I have heard from more teen girl victims than just about any other male writer, and it's not because they think I'm disparaging their concerns. Or are you referring only to Xanth, where Mundane attitudes are rather obviously parodied, such as with the fauns & nymphs, certainly a male fantasy, and the naughty fun about panties. Very few girls object to Xanth either; some even suggest panty puns. You say later Xanths suggest that women are sexual objects who need males to rescue them? Have you read Zombie Lover or Xone of Contention and seen Breanna of the Black Wave's attitude? What about Swell Foop? More bluntly: are you doing an honest critique here, or merely attributing things that really are not in my books? So I guess my suggestion is that you try reading some of the titles I've named here with an open mind; you may find more substance there than you expect, together with a greater appreciation of women as thinking, feeling creatures than you think.
7) Why GNU/Linux?
by crush
Why have you decided to use GNU/Linux? On your website you say:
"I want to be all the way independent of Macrohard, so that no more Doors slam on my tender fingers. We'll see; stay tuned for future reports."
Specifically what is it that you, as an author, have found irritating about using Microsoft products in your work?
In a note you also say:
"It remains far behind on personal systems, but at such time as the Linux nerds catch on to the importance of user friendliness, that should change. Before too long I hope to get the ear of some of them, even if they don't necessarily like what I say."
So, what don't you like so far? What do you want us to improve? Are there any author-specific tools that you miss from Microsoft?
Piers:
This could take a long time, and I'm already taking more time than I like while my novel writing waits. Microsoft aggravates me by the way it so often crashes without saving--I really hate that!--and assumes I am wrong when it fouls up--that illegal operation syndrome--will I be sent to jail?, its refusal to give me ready file-saved status (the very act of checking un-saves the file), its clumsy Revision Mode and Spike processes that seem to assume you want to destroy your original document in order to copy revisions from it, locked-in error messages--it's just a constant process of minor nuisances and some major ones, such as reneging on software updates, that build up to a massive dislike. In reluctant fairness I must say that I haven't updated my word processor since 1995, so some faults may have been fixed by now. A number of the problems I have in Linux I am told have been fixed in more recent software. Since I'm in the process of getting a new Linux system with the bugs removed, I think I need to check it with the hope that my complaints have already been abated. If they haven't, maybe I can return here with an update in two or three months. So very generally, for the moment: I can't print effectively, I can't email effectively, I can't always edit effectively, I can't move my cursor effectively, I can't make or place macros as competent as I want, I can't let my monitor "sleep" between uses, and I have to use twice as many backup disks as before because the files take up twice the space. I'd like specific information on file dates and sizes in the backup challenges; I have to open whole other file-handling windows to get that information now, a hassle. Understand, my hardware can do all of these things, but Linux applications don't. Thus to print out a novel at faster than one and a quarter minutes per page I must shut down Linux and go to Windows on the same system. That drives me crazy. But I have been promised reprieve. There are also some features I have now that I didn't get in Windows, such as an indication whether my files have been saved, different background colors for my files--I like to color code, as I may be using 9 files at a time, shifting back and forth between them--and the ability to do discontinuous selection. I love StarOffice's superior Changes Mode and use it constantly. I'm a serious writer; I use features that non-writers don't. Did anyone notice that the StarOffice site has no category for "Writer"? I had to list my occupation as "retired." So it's like having a wacky girlfriend: there's more to like than dislike despite the aggravation.
8) Incarnations of Immortality
by iamsure
Mr. Anthony,
As someone who has named both of his cats, all seven of his computers, and one of his cars after characters from Incarnations of Immortality, I would like to know why you haven't chosen to return to their mythos.
Consider the fact you have done so with many of your other mythos'! (Bio of a space tyrant, Apprentice Adept, etc.)
Further, with Incarnations, there are a world of possibilities left. Chance, hate, love, hope, all the minor incarnations you mentioned in books previously (I would really like to see hope)..
Your writing weaves a world that one can live in, and while Xanth is nice, I deeply prefer a world where death is kind, and evil is human and flawed.
It helped me through the pain of losing my mother to serious illness, and has been my favorite fantasy world since.
I read in one of your author's note that the story of the original characters from IoI was "complete" and that you didnt see a need to continue their stories, and I can agree with that.
That doesn't stop new characters in the same mythos from being created. Whether set before, during or after the events of IoI, there is definitely room to weave plenty of stories.
Any chance of seeing some more of them?
Piers:
Despite the charges of critics, I don't continue series just for the sake of continuing them. I felt that the Incarnations series was sufficient once God had been addressed. Sure I could do stories about the "minor" Incarnations, or about Nox the Incarnation of Night who knows all secrets and keeps most of them. But I have felt it better to let the series stand as it is. Maybe some day I'll change my mind; one never knows.
CP/M
by ek_adam
I remember in the afterword of one of your books from the early 1980s, you discussed the research you put into choosing your first computer. At the time the choices for consumers were basically Apple II, CP/M, or MS-DOS.
How many generations of computers have you used since then? What system were you using just before you switched [to Linux]? Were you still using CP/M?
Piers:
This must be Question #8.5; it's unnumbered. To date I have used four operating systems and 8 word processors. That's CP/M, MS DOS, WINDOWS, and LINUX, actually I used two versions of DOS and two of WINDOWS, but let's not quibble. The word processors are Select 86, PTP, Edward, Final Word, Sprint, MS Word, WordPerfect, and StarOffice. I'm headed, I think, for another version of LINUX and OpenOffice. I was using MS Word before switching to LINUX, where I started with WordPerfect, couldn't stand it, and then after a series of video card blackouts--I mean, my system crashed every time I called it up--StarOffice. I had to have considerable help and expense to make the change, and it took 9 months. That's why I don't recommend LINUX for other writers, yet; it can be user-disastrous to set up if you're not a geek. Had I not already made my fortune, and kept my Windows system as a backup, I could have been wiped out. I saw a comment elsewhere by a man who wanted his Linux system to run out of the box; he was answered at length by two others, to the effect he was wrong to want it. Oh, yeah? Attitudes like that are death to popularity.
9) Paedophilia
by konstant
Hello Mr. Anthony. As a young adult, I devoured nearly all your novels, with my particular favorites including the Adept series, Incarnations, Bio of a *, and the first eight or ten Xanth titles. It's fair to say that a large part of my psyche and probably my vocabulary are attributable to you.
Recently I reprised On a Pale Horse with my girlfriend and I discovered to my discomfort that it dealt very explicitly with underage sex in a way that sexualized young girls in particular. Although the novel retained many charming qualities for me, I began to consider the female underage sexuality in the other books of that series, especially one of the later books (Of Eternity?) in which an underage girl uses a protracted stay in Purgatory in order to be able to have legal sex with a much older priest. Significantly, she is only 18 "by law". Physically and mentally she is 16 when she has sex with the priest. We are supposed to have any moral questions calmed by this.
As I recalled more of your works, I noticed a recurring theme of young girls being exploited in sexual ways. The opening of Bio of a Space Tyrant describes the protagonist's shame and arousal as his young sister is raped. Later in the series, I hazily recall a wealthy character who kept pre-pubescent girls for sex, then released them for service when they matured. The character was depicted in a very sympathetic light - he was just misunderstood.
Finally, long ago I read a hardback book by you which attributed to you membership in a social organization dedicated to protecting girls against paedophilia.
As a fan and an admirer, but also as someone who is disquieted by the influence you may have had upon my young sexuality, I would like to know candidly whether you are attracted to underage women. Naturally I am in no way implying that you would ever act upon such an urge, but the writing you have given us is very close to an act in itself, considering your very broad and impressionable audience.
Piers:
On a Pale Horse deals explicitely with underage sex? You'll have to cite pages, as I don't remember this. Firefly has explicit underage sex; could that be the one you mean? That's not in this series. The final volume of the series, And Eternity, does have a troubled 15 year old girl who is not sugar-coated and is salvaged by two well-meaning ghosts; apparently you object to this, though it is realistic; there are girls just like her in the real world, who never find salvation of any kind. The Space Tyrant series is highly sexual, but shows no approval of rape; it originated from the very real plight of Vietnamese and Hatian boat refugees whose horror stories barely made the US press because most of the witnesses were dead--killed by pirates. I thought this matter deserved attention, though masked as fiction so it could make it into print. It was not intended for young readers, and its nature never hidden; if you read it young you were trespassing on adult fiction. Many young readers do, but few blame the authors for their sneak peeks. I note that you express no objection to the savage murders, only to the sexuality. I could formulate a question for you about personal values, or better, for society, but I doubt you'd care to answer. So let me address the specific question you do ask: am I attracted to young women? Yes; I am attracted to the entire female persuasion, and have women of every age in my fiction, and women of every age have sex in my fiction. The fact is, as I explore in my GEODYSSEY series, men are attracted to women, and to the shapely ones more than the others, and to the young ones more than the older ones. I don't mean to children, but to girls after they develop breasts and pubic hair, signals of sexual maturity. This relates to the apparent breedability of women; the strategy of the man is to capture a woman at the beginning of her reproductive life and have as many children by her as possible. So young women tend to be the most appealing; it's pretty much hard-wired in our species, and this is reflected in our society's glorification of youth in TV, movies, magazine, advertising--everywhere, as if it is a crime to ever get old. As a man who recently shared the 46th anniversary with the woman I married when she was 19, I deplore this global cultural attitude, but I understand it. To appreciate young women should not be to disparage older ones. And I do like to look at young women. Yes, my wife understands; once we were watching a video, and I needed to brush my teeth in the bathroom and missed a very nice nude-woman sequence with Bo Derrick, so she told me, wound it back, and played it over. It's like bird watching: one looks and appreciates but does not touch. I suspect that 90% of men who claim to feel otherwise are lying. (I'm allowing for the gay contingent.) This is reflected in my fiction in large part because it sells better than more realistic fiction, and publishers want it. But about membership in an anti-pedophelia organization--I do oppose pedophilia, but don't belong to any such outfit. In fact I correspond with some pedophiles in prison.
10) Goddard College, unorthodox culture and linux
by shed
Not many people are aware that you attended Goddard, a very unusual institution of higher learning in Vermont. For those of you who don't know, the college was famous for its radical politics in the 60s, after Piers attended. No tests, no grades, student-designed courses which were called "group studies" and led by "facilitators."
When I attended Goddard in the late 80s it was still a hotbed of radical politics, but also a strong proponent of critical thinking. Not a place where orthodox opinions hold unexamined sway. Although my politics have changed, I attribute my flexibility, independence and career success in part to this college experience.
Do you believe your educational background has played a significant part in your success? If so, how? Would you recommend any changes to traditional educational techniques? Lastly, in line with the interests of the slashdot crowd, you're one of only a few authors to embrace linux as a desktop OS. Would you draw a link between using this "alternative os" and the "alternative" years in college?
Piers:
I do believe that my education helped my success, because I had a good education, and was able at Goddard to orient on my true desire: to write. I had a long way to go, but it was a necessary stage. But I'm not sure the radicalism of Goddard was responsible; I was always an independent thinker, taking the road less traveled. In fact I was suspended from college because I was one of six students found in the lounge--I was talking with my fiancee--she was only 18 then--after it was supposedly closed. The entire student body rose in protest about the suspensions; the college president threatened to close the college, and the students, being more cautious than he, backed down. Today I seem to be the only one willing to talk about that; the college, perhaps disinclined either to admit it was wrong or to alienate a major monetary contributor, does not. So you'll just have to take my one-sided word that it was wrong, on legal and ethical grounds, and later repented without admitting it. So Goddard became too straight-laced for me. Later they had co-ed dorms with boys and girls rooming together, but not in my day. Still, for all that, Goddard was radical by the standards of the day, and was a great place to be. But I think I owe my eventual success as a writer more to my wife than to the college.
down the toilet, like VA software stock
he didn't just take the same answer and reprint it twenty times in slightly varying formats. That was unexpected.
Hey Roblimo, I just finished having sex with your wife. She sure loves cock--black cock, anyway. When it is man-sized like mine. Perhaps she isn't gettting enough at home. Well, she got enough from this homey. Peace out.
PS: When do you leave for work tomorrow. She said she wants to be serviced again. Actually she said she "needed it bad, cuz robbie ain't packin'".
Credits: onby
1. Introduction
As everyone knows, Open Source software is the wave of the future. With the market share of GNU/Linux and *BSD increasing every day, interest in Open Source Software is at an all time high.
Developing software within the Open Source model benefits everyone. People can take your code, improve it and then release it back to the community. This cycle continues and leads to the creation of far more stable software than the 'Closed Source' shops can ever hope to create.
So you're itching to create that Doom 3 killer but don't know where to start? Read on!
2. First Steps
The most important thing that any Open Source project needs is a Sourceforge page. There are tens of thousands of successful Open Source projects on Sourceforge; the support you receive here will be invaluable.
OK, so you've registered your Sourceforge project and set the status to '0: Pre-Thinking About It', what's next?
3. Don't Waste Time!
Now you need to set up your SourceForge homepage. Keep it plain and simple - don't use too many HTML tags, just knock something up in VI. Website editors like FrontPage and DreamWeaver just create bloated eye-candy - you need to get your message to the masses!
4. Ask For Help
Since you probably can't program at all you'll need to try and find some people who think they can. If your project is a game you'll probably need an artist too. Ask for help on your new Sourceforge pages. Here is an example to get you started:
"Hi there! Welcom to my SorceForge page! I am planing to create a Fisrt Person Shooter game for Linux that is going to kick Doom 3's ass! I have loads of awesome ideas, like giant robotic spiders! I need some help thouh as I cant program or draw. If you can program or draw the tekstures please get in touch! K thx bye!"
Thousands of talented programmers and artists hang out at Sourceforge ready to devote their time to projects so you should get a team together in no time!
5. The A-Team
So now you have your team together you are ready to change your projects status to '1: Pre-Bickering'. You will need to discuss your ideas with your team mates and see what value they can add to the project. You could use an Instant Messaging program like MSN for this, but since you run Linux you'll have to stick to e-mail.
Don't forget that YOU are in charge! If your team doesn't like the idea of giant robotic spiders just delete them from the project and move on. Someone else can fill their place and this is the beauty of Open Source development. The code might end up a bit messy and the graphics inconsistant - but it's still 'Free as in Speech'!
6. Getting Down To It
Now that you've found a team of right thinking people you're ready to start development. Be prepared for some delays though. Programming is a craft and can take years to learn. Your programmer may be a bit rusty but will probably be writing "hello world" programs after school in no time.
Closed Source games like Doom 3 use the graphics card to do all the hard stuff anyhow, so your programmer will just have to get the NVidia 'API' and it will be plain sailing! Giant robot spiders, here we come!
7. The Outcome
So it's been a few years, you still have no files released or in CVS. Your programmer can't get enough time on the PC because his mother won't let him use it after 8pm. Your artist has run off with a Thai She-Male. Your project is still at '1: Pre-Bickering'...
Congratulations! You now have a successful Open Source project on Sourceforge! Pat yourself on the back, think up another idea and do it all again! See how simple it is?
- poopbot: crapflooding since 7/8/02
RPqnJGTYGj
I make this completely off-topic post to commemorate my 1000th comment as a member of the slashdot community! It only took quite a few years to achieve this, but I am quite proud of it. Anyone able to estimate when I signed up due to my user ID? I can't find anywhere that lists the actual date and time of registration. I'm curious what my comments/day rate is.
What?
There are way too many so-called "trool" posts, in which a person posts to annoy or anger other readers. We need for all of these to stop, for Slashdot's sake. VA Linux is depending on this site, so let's not ruin it!
The very fact that geeks are so concerned with Linux Shortcomings kinda makes it difficult to have time to respond to their female's sexuality. Linux is the nemesis of female sexuality.
I'd just like to say I have a frosty mug of piss for the first slashteam member dumb enough to show up at my house.
No, that baseball bat doesn't say "special delivery for CmdrTaco" on it, that's just the knots in the wood.
This won't even be close to an FP btw...
propz to what's left of the CLiT after this fucking nazi ass karma bullshit has come into play.
That's right malda, just like W. you're trying to silence you problems, rather than solve them, and you're finding that it isn't possible. WHERE'S YOU'RE DADDY TO SHAVE YOU NOW?!
You are correct, that must be why. It surely can't be related to the fact that you write the same story over and over but incorporate "new" reader-submitted puns each time. That would never get old, fast.
Funny thing was, no one would take them. People figured that if they were giving them away for nothing, there must have been something wrong with them.
This is because they are used to Linux. Someone once gave them Linux, it was shit, now they are conditioned to hate free stuff. The hell with Linux.
Cunning linguists
THE EURO iS THE NEW FUTURE!!!
but they're not that feisty :(
Damn, were you banging here at 15 or something? You sure like the young ones don't you? Did you lure her with candy and then seduce her? please tell me your secret. I want to be a cradle robber like you!
+5, Informative!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am completely serious!!!!! It is important information!!!!!!!!!
That have you noticed the quality of /. replies has declined with the quality of /. stories?
Notice that all the replies to this story have been modded down below 1.
Nice going slashmeat, i mean slashteam. Now no one can have an opinion. Can you pronounce "Stalinism"?
Hah! Is there such a thing as "too feisty" for Slashdot?
If it's about female sexuality, then, yes, I would say so. :)
If all you have are silver bullets, everything looks like a werewolf.
Is the whole of his experience with Apple based on his use of the Apple ][e?
NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
And a one term Bush presidency!!!!
;-), Homer mentions to
Be Patriotic, Smoke Amerikan grown marijuana, not treasonous imports !!!!
Courtesy of About 420
Connotative Use/Meaning
420 is a phreak s (and not just a hippie s) favorite number for a
variety of reasons, or maybe for no reason at all, but colloquially
the number says pot -- let s smoke pot, or someone s smoking
pot, or gee, i really like pot, or time to smoke pot, either by
time (4:20 a.m. or p.m.), date (April 20th), or otherwise (e.g. State
Route 420). April 20th at 4:20 is marked by annual events in
Mount Tamalpais, CA (an informal gathering); Marin Conty, CA
(the 420 Hemp Fest); Ann Arbor, MI (the Hash Bash); and
Washington, D.C. (buildup towards the July 4th Smoke-In).
Original Source(s)
Conventional wisdom: The most common tale is that 420 is the
police radio code or criminal code (and therefore the police call)
in certain part(s) of California (e.g. in Los Angeles or San
Francisco) for having spotted someone consuming cannabis
publicly, i.e. pot smoking in progress; that local cannabis users
picked up on the code and began celebrating the number temporally
(esp. 4:20 a.m., 4:20 p.m., and April 20); that the number became
nationally popularized in the late 1980s and, more ferverently, in
the early- to mid-1990s; and is colloquially applied to a variety of
relaxed and/or inspired contexts, including not only pot
consumption but also a good time more generally (in contrast to
the drug war surrounding).
Conventions are legends: 420 is not police radio code for
anything, anywhere. Checks of criminal codes (including those of
the City of San Francisco, the City of Los Angeles, Los Angeles
County, the State of California, and the federal penal code) suggest
that the origin is neither Californian nor federal (the two best
guesses). For instance, California Penal Code 420 defines as a
misdemeanor the hindrance of use (obstructing entry) of public
lands, and California Family Code 420 defines what constitutes a
wedding ceremony (Marco). One state does come close: The
Illinois Department of Revenue classifies the Alcoholic Liquor Act
under Part 420, and the Cannabis and Controlled Substances Tax
Act are next, under Part 428. (RB 5/19/99)
True story?: According to Steven Hager, editor of High Times,
the term 420 originated at San Rafael High School, in 1971,
among a group of about a dozen pot-smoking wiseacres who
called themselves the Waldos. The term 420 was shorthand for the
time of day the group would meet, at the campus statue of Louis
Pasteur, to smoke pot. ``Waldo Steve, a member of the group who
now owns a business in San Francisco, says the Waldos would
salute each other in the school hallway and say ``420 Louis! The
term was one of many invented by the group, but it was the one
that caught on. ``It was just a joke, but it came to mean all kinds of
things, like `Do you have any? or `Do I look stoned? he said.
``Parents and teachers wouldn t know what we were talking about.
The term took root, and flourished, and spread beyond San Rafael
with the assistance of the Grateful Dead and their dedicated cohort
of pot-smoking fans. The Waldos decided to assert their claim to
the history of the term after decades of watching it spread, mutate
and be appropriated by commercial interests. The Waldos contacted
Hager, and presented him with evidence of 420 s history, primarily
a collection of postmarked letters from the early 70s with lots of
mention of 420. They also started a Web site, waldo420.com. ``We
have proof, we were the first, Waldo Steve said. ``I mean, it s not
like we wrote a book or invented anything. We just came up with a
phrase. But it s kind of an honor that this emanated from San
Rafael. Maria Alicia Gaura for the San Francisco Chronicle,
4/20/00 p. A19; and thanks to Noah Cole for the submission
Alternate explanations
There are a variety of other explanations, all much more interesting
than police code, and many plausible. Some are more likely uses
of the 420/hemp connection rather than sources of it, such as the
score for the football game in Fast Times at Ridgement High,
42-0.
Known Myths: It isn t police code (see above). There are 315
chemicals in marijuana, not 420. And although tea time in
Amsterdam is rumored to be 4:20, it is actually 5:30 (Gerhard
den Hollander).
Sixties Songs: For instance, Bob Dylan s famous Rainy Day
Women #12 and 35 is a possible reference, or source --
12x35=420. And Stephen Stills wrote (and Crosby Stills Nash
& Young performed) a song 4+20 (first recorded 7/16/69,
released on Deja Vu 3/11/70) about an 84-year-old
poverty-stricken man who started and finished with nothing.
(Thanks to Sherry Keel 12/6/98.) Dylan aslo mentions 4 and
20 windows in The Balland of Frankie Lee and Judas Priest
(on John Wesley Harding).
Older Verse: But 420 in poetry is older than that - Greg
Keller notes the old nursery rhyme line, four and twenty
black birds baked in a pie. Revelation 5:14 (in the King
James Version of the Christian Bible) reads, And the four
beasts said A-Men. And the four and twenty elders fell down
and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever. (Travis
Spurley 2/15/99) And in Midnight s_Children, Salman
Rushdie wrote, Inevitably, a number of these children failed
to survive. Malnutrition, disease and the misfortunes of
everyday life had accounted for no less than four hundred and
twenty of them by the time I became conscious of their
existence; although it is possible to hypothesize that these
deaths, too, had their purpose, since 420 has been, since time
immemorial, the number associated with fraud, deception and
trickery. (Comet 2/14/98) Comet s best guess is that this
refers to something in Indian mythology or numerology, since
the book is set in India and frequently involves Indian history,
culture, and religion. Given the high interest in Eastern
religion among the phish/dead community, this seems a likely
origin of 420 s current significance.
Temporal Significance: Hands on analog clock at 4:20 look
like position of doobie dangling from mouth Larry in
Tuscan and Alex Mack 5/19/99). Disruptive students are out
of detention and safetly away from school by 4:20, also
rumored to be the time that you should dose to be peaking
when the Dead went on stage Hart. The Waldos were a
group of teens back in the 70 s that lived in San Rafael, CA.
420 was the way they talked about pot in front of teachers,
non-smoking family members etc. Also it was the time of day
they could just go relax, and get baked. (PhunkCellar)
Jamaicans purportedly worked till 4 then walked home then
lit up. They would talk 420 like our parents talked about after
5. That s when partying began Larry in Tuscan). Albert (not
Abbie) Hofmann supposedly first encountered LSD at 4:20
p.m. on 4/19/1943 (Bart Coleman citing Storming Heaven by
Jay Stevens, recommended by Mickey Hart in Planet Drum).
Surrealist painter Miro was born April 20, 1893. And
www.filmspeed.com says the propoganda film Reefer
Madness has a copyright date of April 20, 1936 (i.e. 4/20).
(Patrick Woolford)
Misc: Could be that it comes from hydroponics, the practice
of cultivating plants in water often used by indoor marijuana
cultivators, since 4 is used for H on a calculator (420/H20).
(Nick Lowe 3/30/00) The number 80 (eight) is quatre vingt
(pronounced cah-truh vahn), meaning four (times} twenty.
Dan Nijjar 1/27/00 (No connection yet between the number
80 and pot. A quarter pound is roughly 120 grams, rounding
quarter-ounces to 7.5.) The titanic was supposed to arrive
4/20/1912. (Thanks to RB.) Perhaps the heavy use of vt420
terminals in the Berkeley area is to blame? (BTW, 420 in
binary code is 110100100.)
Ubiquitous?
Now there s a 420 Pale Ale. One of the late-97/early-98 Got
Milk ads featured a character eating cookies without milk and
then passing a sign that reads Next Rest Area 420 miles (as Ross
Bruning). Reportedly, all of the clocks in the movie Pulp Fiction
are stuck on 4:20. Shirts with the number 420 on the red-and-blue
interstate highway shield (Interstate 420?) have show up on the
sitcom Will and Grace (Paul Risenhoover 5/14/99) and in several
videos. UPS labelling software has a 420 postal code legend for
next-day/2-day deliveries (which is how Phish tickets are sent).
(Jack Lebowitz 10/3/98) MTV s 1997 Viewer s Choice Award (for
the MTV Video Awards) was decided by calls to
1-800-420-4MTV. And by May of 1998, the number was
appearing in so many ads (eg Copenhagen 5/14/98 Rolling Stone
p54, Corvette p55 5/98 Car & Driver) that its presence is
presumed to be intentional. Many songs are around 4 minutes 20
seconds long (since many songs fall between 2:30 and 5:30),
including for example Pink Floyd s A Great Day for Freedom (on
The Division Bell, 1994), the Foo Fighters My Hero, and
Smokin from Boston s first album. There have also been some
420 references on The Simpsons. In the re-run episode aired on
April 20th, 1999 at a special time (probably in honor of those
college students staying in the holiday spirit
Flanders that Barney s birthday is April 20th. Also, the jackpot sign
in one part of the casino says $420,000. There are a couple less
concrete ones, but these two have to be legit, especially since they
decided to air THAT particular episode on 4/20/99. (Submitted by
Matt Meehan 4/21/99) And (as of Fall 99) the 60 free minutes that
Working Assets Long Distance offers, at the 7 cents per minute
rate, is $4.20 free. There s even a band named 420, and another
names . In the first fifteen pages of Karel Capek s novel War with
the Newts, a man diving under wonder stayed down for four
minutes and twenty seconds. Grant Garstka 1/6/00 At the
suggested retail price ($3.96) and Michigan (6%) sales tax, a deck
of Uno cards costs $4.20. Nic Boris 4:20 marks the first downbeat
of the drums in Led Zeppelin s epic Stairway to Heaven. (Dan
Harris) The bill authorizing force after the World Trade Center
attacks of 9/11/01 passed 420 to 1, and news reports in following
months noted many times that there are (or were then, anyway) 420
airports in the U.S. Allan Morris And don t forget that Adolf Hitler
was born on April 20, macabely celebrated (or at least
referenced) via the Columbine High School shootings.
Phish-related Occurances
Whatever the origin, the number appears frequently... For the
summer 1997 tour, TicketMaster service charges were $4.20. In
the Fall 1997 Doniac Schvice Dry Goods section, a limited edition
Pollack poster printed on 100% hemp is order number 420P. The
Great Went was 420 miles from Boston (former home of Phish).
The official logo includes 4 gills and 20 bubbles (Gringo
11/12/98). As of 6/15/97, including covers and originals, Phish
had performed a total of 420 songs (thought its 486 by 4/24/98).
(David Steinberg). Lawnboy is 420megs of memory. Patrick
Walker Phish s The Vibration of Life underlies a whirling loop
with Seven Beats per second (which makes 420 beats per minute.)
Trey has used the altered line woke up at 4:20 in Makisupa
Policeman, which also often indirectly celebrates 420ing, e.g. by
mention of goo balls. One of the funniest shirts around takes light
jabs at both the 4:20 phenomenon and the rumored evolution
(collapse?) of the Phish.Net (especially rec.music.phish) from
being Gamehendge to Flamehendge, and beyond. The first day of
the Great Went started at 4:20 (with Makisupa Policeman. (The
second day started late, at 4:37.) Noah Cole The first single from
Slip Stitch and Pass was played on WBCN 10/14/97 at 4:20 pm.
An uproar at 12/31/96 can be heard on tape during the 2001, in
response to an enormous digital clock (which was counting down
to midnight) reaching 11:55:40 and reading -4:20. (Yoda)
During the 9-12-00 2001, Trey hits the first riff right at 4:20 into
the intro jam. (Cal 2/25/01) Some mail order tickets for the 1997
New Year s run were in section 420. The first Mass Pike toll
leaving Oswego was $4.20. (Camille Heath ) And the standard
shipping for The Phish Companion through Amazon was
originally $4.20.
420 Shows: Phish performed on April 20 in 1989, 1990, 1991,
1993, and 1994. The first day of the Great Went started at 4:20,
although that was called a soundcheck by Trey after three songs.
The Jazzfest Harry Hood 4-26-96 started at about 4:20 reported by
Trevor. At Big Cypress, David Bowie was playing at 4:20 a.m.
And the one event during the hiatus (10/8/00 - ?) featuring all
four members - for Jason Colton s wedding - was 12/1/01, 420
from: http://www.phish.net/faq/n420.html:
Bush May Shatter Fund-Raising Record ..
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (AP) -- President Bush was on track to demolish his own record for a single fund-raising appearance today, drawing $4 million for Alabama's financially lagging Republican gubernatorial candidate, Rep. Bob Riley. Bush also traveled here to talk about corporate responsibility; Corporations can donate to political candidates in Alabama, a practice that is against federal law.
"The Palladium was a famous theater in London and another in Hollywood, and the name choice makes more and more sense to me as the story develops about Microsoft's computer security initiative of the same name. It certainly felt like theater, for example, when I received this week a very careful message on the subject from inside Microsoft. It's rare that I hear from any of the troops in Redmond, and the writer's message is an interesting one that made me think a lot -- not just about Palladium, but about the whole power structure behind the protection of intellectual property rights and just where Microsoft fits in. Frankly, I think we're being played for fools. The message follows (with my addition of capital letters where needed).
As a long time reader and watcher, I've always respected your insight. But you should know that you're pretty far off the mark with your recent Palladium commentary. It's basically content creator (be that ISV or copyright holder) driven only, and Microsoft only provides the infrastructure to let that happen. Obviously, I cannot comment on internal issues, but this public interview sums it up pretty accurately [cites a URL that you'll find is the first "I Like It!" entry this week]. Especially the following (an interview with Palladium product manager Mario Juarez published in Digital ID World):......
But hey, this is just Microsoft you say. Microsoft doesn't envision anything so diabolical. And I agree with that statement simply because I don't see Microsoft as a company having much vision at all. That's why it is possible for Palladium to be devised exactly as Mr. Juarez says, from the bottom up for purely altruistic reasons. In fact, I am sure that is how it happened. But then one day somebody near the top of Microsoft realized that what they had was a way of taxing the world, and suddenly, Palladium became strategic for Microsoft.
Now maybe I am a crackpot. And if I am, then you'll be able to take apart everything I have just written, point by point, showing how crazy it is. Please do. I'm waiting.
And I'm still waiting.
As a footnote here, I did a Google search on my writer from Microsoft, and found that he had submitted comments to the Department of Justice asking that Microsoft be dealt with leniently in the penalty phase of the current anti-trust trial. While the writer described himself to the DOJ as an "entrepreneur," he did not identify himself as a Microsoft employee. How entrepreneurial of him! I wonder how many of the positive comments received by the DOJ came from such closeted Microsoft people?
Now back to Palladium. One aspect of this story that really amazes me is the role of the recording, broadcasting, and film industries, which are accorded far more prestige than I think they deserve or that they would receive from Microsoft on a normal day. This is a company, remember, that is consistently acused of stealing intellectual property and has been found guilty of doing so. There is no respect for intellectual property rights that I can see there. Beyond Bill Gates's extensive video collection of Audrey Hepburn movies, I don't think the movie business makes much difference to Microsoft. It's all about the money."
see also: The horrors of becoming involved in some phony payper stock markup bookFUDging FraUDs, & ill eagle hostage ransom liesense scams perpetrated buy the ill eagle KingDumb
Good interview in general, I am glad to see this lengthy responses, but. At then end of #9, he says "In fact I correspond with some pedophiles in prison."- Am I the only one that doesn't do this?
Just seems a little odd to me, unless he is trying to write a book or gain some insight into these people. Any thoughts?
Tibbon
tibbon.com
Why was so much of this space taken up with questioning underage sex? It happens. His books are understandable and real, of course they're going to depict images that are realistic. These people who've now realized that much of their opinions about sexuality have been developed through these authors should really thank him. I didn't read this stuff when I was in high school, this was middle school material, and I don't regret it now. I read a lot of stuff like that at that age. Why? Because it is what adolescents do. They wonder, and they read and they think and that's the way it is. Anyone who can't come to terms with THAT is really fooling themselves.
So, to all of those people that had questions of that content: Those are the kinds of books he was writing. You chose to read them. You could have read other kinds of books, but at that age, that very content was part of what fascinated you. Going after the issue years later is a moot point. You would have found something else to read that was just as racy, involving people your age, and now you would be asking pointless questions of those authors.
Liora
Admit it, you're one of those trools! I can tell by the funny username spelling. Also, your post seems to be anti-linux.
It's the pirates who really bother me, stealing whatever I write, including what I self publish, as if trying to guarantee that I will go broke and have to take up sewer cleaning for a living. That's why I support Harlan Ellison's anti-piracy struggle.
*sigh*
And this from a guy who uses Linux. (Which, as far as I know, is not authored by a cadre of sewer-cleaners).
He just "guaranteed" that I won't pay money to ready any more of his books.
after reading the article, it sounded like OpenOffice was worth a try. so I headed over to OpenOffice.org to take a look. there was the download link, yay, but 50 meg downloads are a bit much for my net connection. I looked for a "buy this on a CD", but not a link to be found. I even clicked the "Contributing" link, but that was only contributing code, not buying CDs.
maybe this is one reason open source companies fail?
MORTAR COMBAT!
EVERYBODY is either offtopic or troll posting today!!
The moderators must've had a bad weekend!
Having said that, I now invite the Slash janitorial team to massage my sweaty balls with their tongues.
CLIT. Are you a memb
These are honest questions from someone new to -1 browsing.
1. What is "$rtbled"? I assume it's some data structure in SlashCode. What does it do?
2. What is "modbombing"?
3. What is "bitchslapping" (in the context of Slashdot moderation, obviously)?
Thanks.
Finally, Slashbot will be revealed as the techno-rednecks that they are.
It's Piers Anthony. He just switched to Linux and Star Office. A post about Linux and Sexuality is not Offtopic.
Troll, maybe. Also possibly redundant. You could even make a case for the massively overused Overrated moderation. But not Offtopic. I think we need to vote for $rtbl's.
--
E_NOSIG
It worked for the parent to this post ...
Still at karma:excellent. You guys have got to try harder.
--
E_NOSIG
1. $rtbl: when this flag is set, it removes you from the moderator pool. Also, you cannot metamoderate. Think of it as the Janitors unchecking the "Willing To Moderate" box for you.
2. Modbombing: This is the Slashdot Janitors ultimate power trip. Basically, they take evey live comment of yours and mod it down to -1, with the corresponding loss of karma. This arose from their propensity for the site called goatse.cx. They want everyone to look like that.
3. Bitchslapping is when your account posts at a default -1, regardless of karma. Except the bonus will take you to 0.
We'll take care of all that karma you got! Then you'll be right down here with us. You can be our next cell bitch, passed around like all the other pissy little college punks.
Welcome to the soft white underbelly of the Internet, Bitch!
By the DSM-IV (Diagnostic Statistical Manual 4, used by the American Psychologist association to determine and classify all psychopathological disorders, Europe uses a different manual, Not sure what it is called)
...
pedophilia is defined as (approx.):
An unnatural desire towards young children. Specifically, children under the age of 16, and with an age difference of more then 5 years.
Or better translated for people who don't want to do the math.
15 - Youngest allowable = 10
16 - Youngest allowable = 11
17 - Youngest allowable = 12
21 - Youngest allowable = 16
22 - Youngest allowable = 16.
and so on.
Therefore, having people with the age of 16 having sex with anyone is not considered pedophilia by the standards of modern psychology. Also, two youths within 5 years of eachother engaging in sexual activity is not considered a psychological disorder. As well, the book used by European psychology has about the same age (It's either 16 or 14, I don't remember unfortunately.)
Just some technical notes.
Very few people in this world are undeserving of sympathy. Although politicians (and most of hollywood) love to paint criminals of all sorts as black-hearted devils without an ounce humanity, that is rarely the case. More often then not these people are just regular people with problems, very big problems, but just problems nonetheless. Treating them otherwise is often counterproductive.
In scanning through the postings, I didn't see anything on macroscope..... which is a great piece of sci-fi. Interesting idea, good character development. It is a good read.
Fly Fish? Participate in our forum
IMHO it's clear from his writing (after reading 20 of his books). His interview responses remind me of the scene in Spinal Tap where Nigel doesn't get the difference between "sexy" and "sexist."
Wow, pretty harsh.
Piers has it right on the money - depicting a thing, or portraying a thing does not glorify it. It's a fact, that what he says about male attitudes towards women, even the desirability of (what US puritanical culture determines to be) "underage" women is pretty much true. We're hard-wired for this. It's biological fact. As is social dominance in primates. Men want to dominate control and rule their sex partners. No, not all men - I suspect everybody's wired a bit differently, and for some people it's a much stronger urge than others. And the urge for dominance can also often be redirected in other ways: (prime example - a physically weak male can't win the dominance game on the football field, so he takes up the dominance game on his own terms, using his own strengths, perhaps he's a mathematical genius, or has a talent for memorizing obscure command-line or programming syntax. When this person develops total 1337-ness, he has won the dominance game).
So even though it can be redirected, it's primarily a sexual thing - and so is a button that's best pressed through fantasy and sexual imagery.
Which is NOT to say that all women are hopelessly wired by nature to be submissive sex slaves. That's not at all what I'm saying.
My point is, is that society has created a backlash against this natural tendency - a backlash called "the feminist movement" - and while it has done great things for freeing women, particularly, individual women who are not wired for submissiveness, freeing them from the constraints imposed upon them by a male-dominated society. Somewhat. But in pursuing this backlash - they've also completely vilified men, and dominance, and competitveness in general. Any place where these traits are displayed is now evil, backwards, and contributing to "enslaving women". A woman who is, herself, submissive, becomes shamed by her role, as if she's betraying her own kind. Contributing to the system that keeps all women down. Which is complete hogwash. The only thing that keeps women down is people refusing to admit their own nature - and buying into some sort of system of predestination - whether it's someone's twisted idea of "equality" or an absolutist view of "All Men Are Dominant over All Women" - both extremes are wrong, and end up forcing a life onto people for which they are not suited.
Some men do not feel driven to beat everyone at some particular game. Maybe they like to be tied up and spanked by a dominatrix because of the pressure they feel in day to day life of having to always be in competition. Perhaps some homosexual men are really driven by an urge to submit. Why not leave these men alone, and let them live their lives the way that makes them happy?
Some women do not feel driven to find a man to rescue them, take care of them, and then have their babies wash their laundry and clean their toilets for the rest of their lives. But the women who DO feel that way should be allowed to live the lives that make them happy. They should not be forced to go to college, become lawyers, and wait until they're 45 to have one mildly retarded child.
The ones that want to do that - sure - whatever floats your boat. But live and let live.
Which is all Piers is saying. Yes, there are TONS of women out there who love the sexual imagery in his books. In fact, back in the 80's Sci-Fi fandom scene, I pretty much saw the whole Xanth series as books for girls. I didn't know any males who really got into them. How can such exploitation of women possibly appeal to so many women? Especially to a group with such a high percentage of "pagan" Goddess-worshipers, etc. ?
It's biology. You can fight it. But in the end, biology pumps your blood, regulates your hormones, and fires your neurons. You have free will, but there are certain things that are biologically engineered by nature to make you happy and content. It's often wise to listen to them.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Call me ignorant and stupid, but I had never heard of this guy, or his books O:-) Any good places to get informed about all of this?
The definition of what is Adult or Juveniule has changed over the decades. Read some of Heinlein's "juveniles", many of which were serialized in Boy's Life (the Boy Scout magazine). They delve into topics such as racism, separation of church and state, social and political theory, the death of major characters, and other grown up themes. Pretty much everything except sex (and even that is addressed indirectly), and "adult" literature of the 50's (and later) often avoids that.
Best Slashdot Co
Even CLIT itself is posting as AC.
-Teh CLIT
I read the first 5 Xanth novels and Phase trilogy (when I read it, that was all he had of both -- I read Phase as it was published) in college. Naturally my memory of his books is tainted by my then (barely) post-adolescent view of sexuality, so I don't remember much of any sexual scenes standing out.
/. crowd so easily on these issues -- nobody has confronted him on this dance around the actual issue of the question.
What does bother me, though, are two things:
1) There were at least 2 well thought out questions about sexuality, where the posters cited specific scenes and situations. These weren't just groundless charges. In the majority of his responses to these questions, PA justified himself, but spent a good part of his answers attacking the questioner. While he did deal with the scenes in Space Tyrant, he glossed over or ignored many of the situations the questioners cited. In other words, he justified his position, instead of dealing directly with the issues (making women sex objects, and dealing with pedophilia). The strength of emotions that appear in his repsonses indicate, to me, that these are hot topics to him, and the rest of his answers to these questions seem more an attempt to avoid or deny the issue, or to redirect any criticism back on the questioner (which is a standard tactic used in any manipulative relationship). I think PA dodged this issues and this, in itself, is an indication that these are issues where he has a low level of self-awareness.
2) I can't believe he was able to snow the
Otherwise, I have to say it was an interesting interview and it is something I'm glad I took time to read. (I'd take time to read his books, but after the 4th or 5th Xanth and the Adept/Phase trilogy, I figured I'd read all his books and he was just re-writing them and re-publishing them under different names.)
It may not seem so strange, once you put it into context.
I would find it quite strange if Piers actively went out searching for pedophiles to correspond with. However, a more plausible explanation is that the pedophiles initiated contact first.
It seems very likely that a pedophile would be interested in some of the situations portrayed in Mr. Anthony's works, and would want to contact the author.
Just my $0.02.
Any self-respecting censorship software would ban /. based on this sequence of words.
Incidentally, being in the word business, I read, write, and edit proposals, manuscripts, memos, letters, and other documents daily. I run Linux and StarOffice. As long as I've been in publishing, I've never had to go into Windows.
I thought Microsoft owned ChroMagic(tm).
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
You'd be surpised to learn of how many young men and teens are in jail for having sex with pubescent (that is manifesting pubic hair, breasts etc) girls, a thing that has been illegal only in the past hundred or so years, something, like he said, is a natural attraction common to men everywhere. My view is, he's sympathetic to the plight of men who's libido has gotten the best of them with young women, because he knows how tempting it is.
The general public enjoys, as a morbid entertainment, the idea that pedophiles are always bad, are always in the wrong, have abused, have been cruel, or that they are even pedophiles at all (a love of teens does not a pedophile make), to please themselves with a bad energy, a sort of soul cannibalism, eating up anothers life energy. They enjoy mounting cruelty upon cruelty upon men who they know very little about, who they trust the media and the police to speak of, the two institutions least likely to be fair, who have the most to gain by sensationalising and exaggerating. They ask the question: Who dares write a pedophile?
Piers Anthony, I guess, is another kind of being, one that understands that lurking behind the mask society has created, their lies a human face! And thank goodness; too many people, good people, end up in prison without anything but a wall to keep them sane, to encourage them, to prepare them for their eventual return to the outside. Peirs is doing a public service by smoothing a transition to lawful behavior on the outside.
AC
That comment makes me laugh. Slashdot's readers tend to be reactionary and spend all their time championing ultra-conservative causes. I've never seen such a concentration of staunch libertarian conservatives.
Readers might think it's liberal or fiesty to champion privacy, property ownership or independence from corporations. I seldom hear an idea on Slashdot that's not older than America. I most often hear ideas that are outdated and out of touch because the perspective of so many geeks is incredibly small.
There was actually a moderately interesting study (Okama 1992 IIRC, published in a sexology journal) suggesting that the majority of child molestors (adults who sexually molest young children) were not paedophiles. As everyone should know, rape is usually a crime of power, not sex, and child rape is not much different.
Do not confuse attraction with action. I would wager that the majority of heterosexual males will be attracted to many girls under the age of 16. Of course it's debatable as to how "unnatural" that attraction is, but I don't know of many people who would recommend locking up the majority of the male population.
As a pretty avid birder, I can say that, um, it's a different sort of feeling altogether. Are the novels his binoculars in this tortured analogy? The spotting scope? His Peterson's guide? What?
(And anyway, does writing novels about those subjects count as "looking" or "touching"? He's actively putting a point of view out there, not just "looking.")
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
Wow, talk about a straw man. The poster who asked the question wasn't saying there's anything wrong with the sight of naked women. I believe he or she was complaining about using naked women to sell books, aka objectification.
Instead of a blanket denial, how about, "yes, there are naked women on my book covers and in my stories, but..." [that's what sells books/I don't like writing about naked men/it's my publisher's fault/Cowboy Neal]
Piers Anthony is the best author ever. And that's all I have to say about that.
If all the world's a stage, anyone who says they want better lighting spends far too much time in a dark theatre.
I'm currently taking a book editing class at a local university, and one of my instructors told me that, more and more since September 11, few publishers of any kind will accept unsolicited paper manuscripts. Some of them won't even accept solicited ones anymore.
... italics, bold, large font for subheads, headers and footers, footnotes at the bottom of each page ... all of these things make it very difficult to get at the actual text of the article. Some people even want to submit manuscripts as HTML (a nightmare).
According to my instructor, they don't want the brown paper packages sent in the mail.
As an editor myself, however, one problem I've had with accepting electronic manuscripts is that the writers, for some reason, seem to want to go apeshit with the style menu
Breakfast served all day!
AC number 1
Regarding his answer to question #9, everyone here should take note. This is what the bravery and honesty looks like.
He could easily have dodged the issue, but he chose to be honest and to air some views that, while obvious to everyone, are far enough ahead of their time to be unsafe to say as bluntly and succinctly as he does.
Remember what it looks like, in case someday one of you have the privilege to be equally brave. People like this, simply speaking the truth, are how the world changes for the better, little by little.
As so the head shrinkers would know, eh?
Hmm.
Doesn't take that much common sense, however, to think about human nature and about our sexual instincts. The human starts to develop sexually right around 11-13, give or take, and is *fully* ready to reproduce physically by the age of 15-16. I say physically, because children these days are most definately not ready to be mothers and fathers -- however their bodies are saying, "Yes, we are ready for sexual interaction..."
So, children, these days, are in quite a quandry -- instincts kicking in and society, perhaps rightly so, holding them back. However, this was not always the case...
My grandmother, as long ago as the 1930's USA, got married at age 13 and had my mother at 15. This was *not* viewed as wrong, in fact, it was quite the norm back then. These days, it's a tragedy, and rightly so -- our children today are a luxury class and are *not* as prepared for the "adult" world like their age-wise brethern of 80-100 years ago.
To me, the cries for abstinence and such is *not* about age and marriage, but about the dangers of STDs. The "acceptable" age and being married is a measure of a societal scale, not a natural scale.
I'm not advocating sex with kids, just for those who skim over that and don't really read it. I'm saying that there *is* a schism between being physically ready to "have sex" and the customs of the popular society around us.
Most frustratingly, he did not address the last novel in the Mode series and it's seeming need to wrap up the entire series in the last third of the book (4 book series from Piers without a reason?). I LOVED the Mode series, and when I heard there was a new book out, I was very excited. The excitement didn't last long into the book. I would have appreciated some insight into the reason why it was written (maybe just to close out an open series? Just for the sake of writing a fourth Mode novel? To finance the new Linux move?) but I have none. Are there others out there with the same outlook on this series?
Whoa, dude! My Karma is, like, "Excellent"!
Yeah, what's with that? Just as I was getting close to 50, they went and took away the numbers. Now what incentive do I have to write decent comments?
I need to find a new news/comments sits.
Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
I'll bet Nazi death camp guards had some very complex reasoning going on to allow themselves to do what they did, for instance. It might be completely bogus reasoning colored by bigotry and peer pressure, but it was enough for them.
Actually, it's pretty interesting reasoning. The line of argument between euthanasia and the Holocaust is direct. If you can imagine, the murder of millions of people, jews, sexual deviants, gypsies, mentally insane people, and the physically deformed was the inversion of compassion. First there was recorded the idea that infants who were going to die shortly anyway should have the 'right' to be killed immediately, in mercy. A few books and chapters of books came out in support of that idea. Then a book and a film in Germany, portraying the mercy killing by a loving husband his wife with severe health problems. It was met with critial and popular acclaim. Around this time, or perhaps a bit before, a book was printed that described the Roma (gypsies) as being innate criminals, genetic criminals, of having a quality inherent in their Roma-ness that caused them to do criminal acts. Of course we can see this is bullshit now, but then, I guess, with the fresh energy of the idea of genetics, and a desire to understand the Roma (or misunderstand them?), these bad ideas appealed to the German mind, and suffused throughout.
At some point, a man directly contacted Hitler about his child, a sickly baby, and asked if Hitler could, in the context of everything I set down above, do anything to help. Hitler sent this note to his doctor and told him to do what he would. The doctor killed the child. Hitler then decided to setup an institution which would take care of such children deserving of mercy. But babies became younger children, then older children. Physical torment born of severe illness or deformity became mental illness. It was at this point that things really began to get underway. Almost anybody can be said to possess a mental illness. All one has to do is define normal as being something that person is not, and *poof*, mental illness. And so many people suddenly became in need of a merciful termination of their lives. Perhaps it is at this point that racial hygene became the perogative, or perhaps these things went side by side all throughout. At any rate, this is roughly how it all began, and it should stand as a warning for future generations to be careful what they ask for, particularly when it comes to dehumanizing whole classes of other people.
AC
OpenOffice is coming along, but it isn't ready for prime time on macs yet. 638c is the first working version, and is currently only stable in its XFree86 incarnation, which requires a separate install of XFree86. This version is currently being migrated to OpenOffice 1.0 (638c is a couple of revisions behind release 1.0).
:)
The native Quartz version of 638c is building, but is unstable and still needs quite a bit of work. If you're an OS X developer, the OpenOffice team is looking for help - see the OpenOffice mac port website for details.
The printing problem won't automagically go away by using OS X, especially if someone hasn't changed the code to use the OS X printing API (something I've never looked at, so I'm not sure what's all there). The UNIX (XFree86) version probably relies on ghostscript or CUPS to do it's printing (I'm guessing, so punch me if I'm wrong), which currently require additional installs if available at all (CUPS, or Common UNIX Printing Services is slated for Jaguar, I think, ghostscript can be downloaded).
As much as I'd like to advocate OS X, I'd say Linux is the better OS for OpenOffice or StarOffice, currently, with Windows a close second. Maybe next year I'll like the OS X version better
I suspect a fifteen year old attracted to a child not yet even into puberty - a ten year old - would be regarded as odd. At least.
I'm the stranger...posting to
...would rather get laid than shot.
I'm the stranger...posting to
How dare a man be attracted to young women! And he has the guts to write about it! He should be castrated and imprisioned.
Only bulldykes (like me) are allowed to think about young naked women, and be paid for it by taxpayer dollars at the local university Womyn's Studies Department.
Castrate now!!!
I am not trying to troll; I am merely trying to present an opposing opinion.
Your views of dominance and submission are simply wrong, my friend. Why must humans feel the need to dominate those around them? It is merely a sign of their weakness and insecurities. Instead, people should try to understand their companions and help their fellow humans.
And your view of feminism is tempting but specious. The only true goal of feminism is to allow women to be equal to men in the eyes of our government and society. This is not to say that women should act like men; the loss of feminine beauty and grace would be tragedy of unfathomable proportions. You are judging the entire movement from the actions and beliefs of a radical minority. This seems to be a familiar thread in American logic. (And before you decry me as a judgmental foreigner, let me tell you that I lived the first 18 years of my life in Alabama.)
I am not trying to attack you, and I believe that your overall point regarding Anthony is right on target. I just believe that you need to reexamine your feeling that dominance and predation are somehow natural and good. They are the cause of so much evil in this world. If we could gain some security in our own masculinity, many problems of society that stem from men would cease to exist.
Thank you for giving me this chance to discuss ideas very dear to me.
Alric.
Hmm, no, it only seems to work for "Offtopic".
Your rush to judge, filled with willful misinterpretation and frank paranoia would make me far less comfortable leaving my children in a room alone with you, than with him.
On the other hand, other countries set the age of consent at 14 (Canada, China, Iceland, Italy, etc.), 13 (Korea, Spain, etc.) or even 12 (Chile, Mexico). So, unless the sexual acts described by Mr. Anthony involved sixth-graders, they would appear legal, moral and natural to at least a part of his audience. Yet again people confuse legality with morality. The law does not define morals. The mere fact that a bunch of politicians in some country or state decided to outlaw consensual sex under the age of 18 does not make that act any more or less (im)moral. While I am not familiar with the scene that konstant mentioned, it is an interesting way for a person (in a fantasy setting) to comply with the letter of the law, particularly if the person (or the author) disagrees with the spirit of that law. Oh, please! Consider an average human male with what is commonly considered a "normal" sexual orientation. That person's attraction to women is not based on the birth date entry in their passports, nor on the local definition of "underage".
Variations in the speed of sexual maturity being what they are, it is not uncommon to see a "quick" 13 years old who looks more sexually mature then an 16 years old late bloomer. Which one would you find more attractive (without asking for ID)?
... and you can bet it ain't long before he's pounding his pole when he gets those letters!
"Yes, Xanth is targeted at a juvenile market, though listed as adult; that's why you don't see it in lists of what children read."
Elsewhere he says:
"though masked as fiction so it could make it into print. It was not intended for young readers, and its nature never hidden; if you read it young you were trespassing on adult fiction."
It is left to the readers to make the distinction between fiction intended for adults and marked as such, and writings intended for younger people but catalogued as adult material, does anyone else find this inconsistent?"Just TRY to stop my wife from giggling giddily when you show her an Antonio Banderas movie!"
Obviously you haven't been properly educating your wife. I suggest looking up the formerly acceptable "rule of thumb".
FTHI (For The Humor Impaired) - Relax. I only invoke the rule one Thursday a month.
I have had my problems with the Xanth series myself. I started reading them when I was fairly young (11 or 12) but I grew out of them quickly, and I thought the notes at the end were self-serving, self-centered, and a waste of trees.
"Macroscope" is a very interesting science fiction novel by Piers that many of you would enjoy.
The Apprentice Adept series (first 3) were much more satisfying intellectually than the Xanth series even at age 13.
The short story anthology "Anthonology" contains some interesting stuff, one of which was pretty extreme (torture, mutilation).
The Tarot series: your basic science fiction short story expanded into a trilogy by painfully extending the story a la Stephen King. Avoid it.
Chthon (and Phthor) are somewhat interesting sci-fi.
Unlike fine wines, most authors don't age very well. Stephen King and Alan Dean Foster are two examples of authors who have novels I've enjoyed, relished, re-read. They are also two authors who currently publish absolute shit.
King writes short stories ballooned into 1000-plus page monsters, which I assume is so he can charge more for them. Although I am not a professional writer, I do have a bachelor's degree in English literature and have written many essays and papers in my time. It's easy to overwrite. It's not easy to write just enough.
Foster writes watered down tripe that reflects his latest anthropology interest.
Terry Goodkind started off the Sword of Truth series with some really good stuff. Pillars of Creation sucked ass. The one before it was pathetically meaningless, meandering, and left me cold and lost. The latest one is barely 100 pages, and it was released as a hardcover! WTF??? Explain that one, beyond total greed.
I could go on, but I won't. Anyone who has had a book on the bestseller list is there for a reason. That doesn't mean everything they write is good, or will be in the future. Some people should know when to stop writing.
When you have sex, you are no longer practicing abstinence. If the condom breaks, you are still wearing a condom. Abstinence is 100% efrfective.
Death on the other hand is not 100% effective. There have been several instances of semen being harvested post-mortum, and successful child births there of.
The aqrgument that people are still going to have sex is ridiculous.
People are always going to kill on another. That does not mean that we should just start accepting the death of our brethren.
It isn't pedophilia under the law. It is underage sex, or whatever the local government calls it.
Criminal sexual assault of a minor,
aggravated sexual assault of a minor, etc.
It is illegal, just not pedophilia.
Most women are sexually mature at 12 these days, and in days gone by.
The recent past is the only time in the worlds history when 12 wasn't sexually mature. This is starting to change back to younger ages again.
Emotionally mature, on the other hand, has nothing to do with age. The fact that children are coddled now makes them less able to start families at that age then they were even 50-75 years ago.
Pedophilia being attributed to two sexually/emotionally mature people based on age, which the DSM-IV evidently does, does play into taboos.
A sexually mature woman (regardless of age) is sexually mature, and attractive to a lot of men, regardless of mental disease.
The word you seek, about sexual attraction to teenagers, is hebephilia.
Virg
Romeo and juliet, both ready to start a family, both in their early teens. Yes, I know, it is fiction, but a reflection of the times it was written in.
Just look at most people grandparents, or greatgrandparents considering the age of most slashdotters. Not uncommon for 13, 14, or 15 year old mothers to run households at the turn of this century.
Today, it might be a travesty for a 17 year old to have a child with a 12 year old, but not by some natural truth, only by societal standards. Several of the people I currently work with started their careers at 17 40 years ago or less. No different than a 21 year old having a kid and just starting their career.
Not to mention other countries, still to this day. And these people aren't depraved that live in these other countries, not that we Americans don't like to think so, they just live under different morals, customs, and necesties.
The subject isn't a matter of age. It isn't a matter of natural law, other than it isn't natural for a sexually mature person to be attracted to a sexually immature person.
All I can say is ouch.
..." and then refers to that as a disaster. That's ridiculous, but telling. Growing up and becoming an adult is what's supposed to happen, Piers, and if your text isn't relevant to adults, and you can't find publishers for your adult material, it may not be publisher bias. It may be because you never grew up and so you therefore view growing up as some kind of disaster. How many real adults, dealing with the complexities of adulthood, do you suppose pay close attention to stories written by Peter Pan?
Being a prolific author is not the same thing as being a good one or an important one. The fact that many Slashdotters may be familiar with Piers Anthony's work does not, de facto, elevate him to any important literary status either generally or within his own genre. Is his stuff really important fantasy or science fiction?
The argument seems to extend to the comments on these pages. Many readers comment here that they read his stuff as kids and then moved on. Anthony replies in one instance that the reader "... grew up and disappeared into an adult
You correspond with pedophiles? Okay. Well at least you oppose it.
You approve of libraries? Oh, do you?
Were your responses too feisty? you asked. Well, maybe you hope they are feisty. Perhaps, you figure that if they're feisty that means they're relevant. Maybe that's why you can't speak to adults effectively, this one included. Maybe you're so engaged in adolescent rebellion you've forgotten that long ago you were supposed to grow up and disappear into adulthood. That you did not may have afforded you a career at the cost of relevancy.
For all provinces, the age of consent is 14 ignoring the 2-year rule, unless anal sex or authority is brought into play, in which case the age of consent is 18 ignoring the 2-year rule. Thus, the age of consent is 12, 13, 14, 16, 17 or 18, depending on the circumstances, but it is uniform across all provinces.
As a side note, there are ways for a province to get around what they see as problems in the Criminal Code of Canada. Provinces are, under authority of the Constitution Act of 1867, in charge of enforcing laws. Thus, if there's a law they disagree with (see: British Columbia and marijuana possession), provincial governments are perfectly within their right to say to their police forces "yes, it's illegal, but don't arrest too many people". There is no way for a province to make their own criminal laws, though.
IANACLM.
You said it buddy.
-- the most controversial site on the Web
Parents would ruin a subtle tomato basil sauce.
__
Do ya feel happy-go-lucky, punk?
Yeah, I agree. The original question read to me something like:
"I really enjoyed reading your books when I was younger. But recently, I re-read one of them, and, for the first time, I grasped some of the sexual themes in the book. Now I'm worried that reading your books when I was so young might have given me repressed psycological disorders"
LOL!
I saw the movie "Seven Little Australians" again for the first time since I was quite young. I realized that, when I was young, I had completely missed all of the character development of the Father, and he actually _did_ have some redeeming qualities/insecurities which I completely failed to notice when watching the movie as a ~7? year old. I don't blame that movie for my current attitudes towards Fathers!
Sounds like you would be a perfect addition to the Simpleface team. It's a new OSS startup that is working to create standards for user interfaces. Go to the web page (it's a wiki) for more info, read through the email archives, and then get involved!
Sigs are out of style, so I'm not going to use one...oh wait..
You misread the DSM-IV. It doesn't require that the younger party be under 16, that's the older party. Younger party must be "prepubescent". Here's exactly what it says: "The paraphiliac focus of Pedophilia involves sexual activity with a prepubescent child (generally age 13 years or younger). The individual with pedophilia must be age 16 years of older and at least 5 years older than the child."
There's this problem when you're arguing with people who so enthusiastically distort and ignore the truth; they tend not to admit the sky is blue even if you've already knocked them on their ass so hard all they can do is stare up at it, let alone engage in productive discussion. But you paint such an excellent picture of yourself with your comments that you really leave me with no work to do in ridiculing you.
Thanks! Good job!
It's not like the case of, say, Roger Zelazny who always wrote short novels. In the days when publishers wouldn't use a larger typeface for short works like they do now so that all books are more or less the same size, you could pretty much tell how long a book was by it's thickness. Zelazny was like literary espresso anyway; his writing was dense and flavorful. Anthony's work is more like cotton candy, only with more pink and less sugar. To find that you're getting even less of a story than you thought you were was not a pleasant surprise, especially when he chooses to tell us all about his bowel problems in some detail. (Afterword to On a Pale Horse, if memory serves.)
The fact that people grow out of his juvenile fiction doesn't speak well of it at all. "Alert" adults find enjoyable nuggets -- or rather, there are parts of the book that are intended to be enjoyed by adults. Whether or not they actually do is another question. But in general, the Xanth books do not age well. There are a number of authors whom I enjoy almost as much now that I'm in my late 30s as when I discovered them as a teenager -- Zelazny (although I've since become aware of a number of subtle messages in his work that I find objectionable that the sheer literary quality of it caused me to overlook it earlier), Tolkien, Robert E. Howard, Glenn Cook, Urusula Le Guin, Gillian Bradshaw, Patricia McKillip, Harlan Ellison, Orson Scott Card, and many others. Even some of Heinlein stands up pretty well -- oddly, his juvenile fiction is much more enjoyable for me than what he wrote for adults. I can still derive a great deal of enjoyment from Baum's Oz books, which I first started reading when I was 7 or so, and I now enjoy the Harry Potter series very much, even though it's marketed directly at children.
Piers Anthony? At my age, there is nothing he has written that I can enjoy in any way, for many of the same reasons that others have detailed here. Telling us that we've grown past is isn't a good excuse. His suggestion that childhood is a somehow superior state of being is plain silly.
And the brethren went away edified.
What is wrong with some of you people? Accusing Piers Anthony of pedophilia? I mean come on, aren't you stretching things JUST A TAD, and why is it that a number of people complained about how they felt he objectifies women, but didn't bother to say anything about the violence included in his novels.
He writes what sells, which in case you hadn't noticed is three things violence, sex, and intrigue. Personally I see nothing wrong with this, and in fact encourage it, any book or movie that doesn't have these things is likely to be boring as heck.
Suppose just for a moment that those accusations are true about pedophilic leanings and objectification (which I for one don't think so without gross exaggeration). IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T F***ING READ IT. There are numerous books out there which depict gay male sex in a graphic way which I personally find rather disgusting, but that doesn't mean I support censoring them, I just don't read those books. Try and accuse them of writing innappropriately, and remove their books from the shelves and I'll be one of the first ones up in arms to save them, even if I personally wouldn't want to read them under any conditions.
This country is about freedom of expression, not just freedom of expressions that you don't find objectionable, so quit being so damn critical you fascists.
...that I got modded down and other people with less to say on this subject (in this thread) got modded up.
AC
Amazon.com sells StarOffice at a slight discount.
Thank you, I don't have a copy with me right now, so I wasn't able to exactly verify it.
Thank you for clarifying that detail.
According to ageofconsent.com, the legal age of consent for women is 16 in approximately 27 states in the US (I may have miscounted by one or two), and internationally legal age varies widely, but the majority of countries seem to have it around 14-16 years of age.
Fnord,
Garath
'nuff said.
His suggestion is that being plain silly is a superior state.
8PP
...is like a mule with a spinning wheel. Dont know where he got it and danged uif he knows how to use it. so just shut thtefuck up about all your great "inisights" in the female (or male, for that matter//////////) sexual condition. stupid conceioted fuckers
Make an 8 year old's day, tough guy.
He's not a pedophile; those rushing to the breach to tar him with that brush are the dangerous ones, both to children and in general.
If you think judgementalism or mccarthyism is a good idea, take a history lesson. I'll vote for "C;" none of the above.
Maybe you're not the only "survivor" of pedophilia here, either.
Even judgemental reactions to actual incest or pedophilia can be far, far worse than the crime itself.
Or Nabokov, or half the fucking western cannon if you want to raise a lynch mob over depiction of underage sex in fiction, you fucking hypocrites.
In fact, try the fucking real world.
Animals.
who needs fiction?
...don't sound anything like Raymond Feist.
I'm sorry. I know that was a bad pun. But it's the only way I can get back at him for all the puns he's perpetrated on me through the years.
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
I'm just wondering, is there some kind of gang-rivalry thing between child murderers and child molestors?
Holy shit, Batman, are there no women around here with mod points?
I'm sorry, I can't help you, being that you've fantasized it, but I'm glad you've finally been able to come clean with everyone about your desires - I'm told the first step to dealing with your problem is admitting you have it.
Just hope for your own sake that no one in your little midwestern suburb finds out about your tendencies, eh? I suppose it's been easy to keep it from your wife, her not seeing so well and all...
But I'm afraid, even if there was a cabal, you're not quite cabal material, if you know what I mean.
No humorously infantile little screed yet? How unlike you, Jer.
Well the truth is I have derived small but important emotional satisfaction from my obvious intellectual superiority to you, for which I'm very grateful. I will decline to read your subsequent contributions, though I'm sure they'll be very good. Well, maybe at least a personal best. Or so you'll try to tell yourself. All that matters is you keep being you, Jer. That way the world will know exactly what to do with you.
Good luck sorting out your problems! It's been a real hoot!