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Sili-Hudson Valley?

Posted by Hemos on from the building-the-new-new-thing dept.

guttentag writes "The New York Times reports Sematech (the international consortium of computer chip makers that turned Austin, TX into a tech center) plans to turn Albany, NY into a research hub. The consortium, which represents IBM, Intel, Motorola, HP, TI, AMD, Philips and others, will put up $193 million for the project while New York State will supply the remaining $210 million. The really unusual thing about the deal is that the state isn't offering any tax breaks or loans to lure the consortium to its capital. Why are they so excited about a location that is over 100 miles from their nearest constituent company (IBM)?"

109 of 362 comments (clear)

  1. Escape from Silicon Valley by Skyshadow · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Affordible housing, jobs, stability, light traffic, companies with reasonable hours, good schools... All the same things that we in the Silicon Valley have to offer...

    (pauses, frowns)

    --
    Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
    1. Re:Escape from Silicon Valley by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "Affordible housing, jobs, stability, light traffic, companies with reasonable hours, good schools... All the same things that we in the Silicon Valley have to offer... "

      Big companies are mroe and more often setting up near small communities because the cost of living in extremely populated areas is astronomical. If they set up in San Francisco, the workers will demand very high wages because of the cost of living.

      If they set up closer to smaller cities, the cost of living and therefore cost of employees is lower as well. In the small-medium town (~100K people) where I live, lots of factories and office-oriented companies are setting up nearby because of the low cost of living, attractive locale for people (i.e. small numbers of murders), lack of inner city gangs, low traffic levels, lower property taxes, friendly neighbourhoods, etc. This is driving the population up rapidly and new housing developments are appearing in areas which only a year ago were remote farm fields.

    2. Re:Escape from Silicon Valley by Pxtl · · Score: 2

      Then they take the small-medium town and surround it with a million miles of suburban sprawl. Build some freakin' condoes at least - and not everybody needs an acre. Its just ridiculous what they do to the landscape surrounding these towns.

      I have friends who grew up in those places. Unless you have your own car and license, you must be chauffeured, or you get no life.

      I'm happy I grew up in a big, stinky, industrial city. Sure, it probably ain't good for my lungs, but I didn't spend 80% of my childhood bugging my folks to drive me to the mall.

    3. Re:Escape from Silicon Valley by Oculus+Habent · · Score: 2

      But soon the jobs will be as easy to come by there.

      I believe it is an issue of employee potential vs cost. People who live in sparsely-populated (or at least not heavily populated) areas are more likely to travel a short distance to work (the necessity of being nowhere, I know) and you don't have to deal with many of the costs of city-based business.

      When Walt Disney bought land for Disneyland, it was an orange field in the middle of nowhere. Plenty of space to do whatever you want. So, if you are building a massive reseach hub, you can put in a campus with space for lakes and bike paths and trees, and whatever else you choose.

      Try doing that in LA, NYC, DC, Austin, etc.

      --
      Dromi - They name everything.

      --
      That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
    4. Re:Escape from Silicon Valley by NighthawkFoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, everyone knows that the world ends once you go north of the Bronx...

      You have to remember that NYC has 8 million people in it, and Long Island has about 850,000. The population density is so much less outside of NYC that most people from the city aren't even aware of what's outside it.

      I grew up on western Long Island, and upstate NY was simply not a part of my consciousness. 'Upstate' was anything north of White Plains. We used to make fun of people in college that were from there (Hah! You live in the middle of nowhere!). Now that I'm working and living there (Poughkeepsie), the joke's on me.

      Considering how depressed the upstate economy is (and Albany IS upstate), this will be greatly appreciated by anyone that lives there. Even though NYC is still growing population-wise, many other parts of NYS are shrinking. Granted, many of the counties just north of NYC are booming, but that's because the cost of living threre is somewhat less than NYC/LI. (Why else would a 2-bedroom 1-floor house go for $275,000?)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
      - Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    5. Re:Escape from Silicon Valley by YanceyAI · · Score: 2
      Actually, I moved to Knoxville, TN from Los Angeles. We don't have clean air (10th worst in the nation, worse than NYC), light traffic, or jobs. And the labor pool is small (pop. 250,000). We also have terrible public education. Also, if you decide to leave the company you're working for, forget finding much else in the tech field.

      We do have broadband, though. And UT football.

      --
      Can I bum a sig?
    6. Re:Escape from Silicon Valley by duffbeer703 · · Score: 2

      Actually, the capital region has a median per captia income of $68,000, one of the higest in the country for a whole region.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    7. Re:Escape from Silicon Valley by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yep, problem with the south is the education sucks because they just won't tax their citizens enough. They gain a few bucks in the beginning, but lose out in the end. Classic libertarian failure story; low taxes, almost no fair labor practices, anti-union, few environmental regulations, but the economy still sucks.

    8. Re:Escape from Silicon Valley by EvilBudMan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >>>Yep, problem with the south is the education sucks because they just won't tax their citizens enough. They gain a few bucks in the beginning, but lose out in the end. Classic libertarian failure story; low taxes, almost no fair labor practices, anti-union, few environmental regulations, but the economy still sucks.>>>

      There is plenty of tax where I'm at but too few people to tax. Therein lies the problem where I'm at. BTW I'd MOD you up too if I could because it is a fair argument. You need educated people and not just cheap labor.

    9. Re:Escape from Silicon Valley by ebh · · Score: 2

      Another part of the problem is that in a lot of the South, education is funded out of sales and income taxes rather than property taxes. So, when the economy goes downhill (I was going to say "south" but...), they lose revenue, and the schools go broke. Up Nawth, we fund our schools primarily from property taxes, which don't change with the economic weather.

    10. Re:Escape from Silicon Valley by Preposterous+Coward · · Score: 3, Informative
      the housing isn't so affordable, the traffic isn't that light

      Compared with what? This says the median house in Albany sold for $120,000 in January of this year. People living in most of the traditional tech-heavy parts of the country would consider that laughably inexpensive.

      This source (Google cache, HTML) calls Albany the second-most affordable city (prices relative to income) in the nation, and says, "Outside New York City, Tri-State rental space deemed suitable for industrial R&D is one-third to one-quarter the cost of similar space in Silicon Valley, Boston, Dallas, or Seattle." And according to this, the overall cost of living in the Bay Area ranges from 75% higher (Berkeley) to 285% higher (Atherton, admittedly an exceptional case).

      As for traffic: "Drivers in other urban areas such as Albany or Hartford experience only about one-quarter the delay of a West Coast driver."

      I'd actually like to hear what you consider affordable housing or light traffic...

      --

      "Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
    11. Re:Escape from Silicon Valley by deanstevenson · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There is no problem in the South. The South is growing at a rapid clip which is evidenced by new home sales, increased traffic, and an increasing number of jobs of varied skill levels. The economy there certainly does not 'suck' any more than other regions of the country during a recession. It is time to stop using the South as a punching bag and start acknowledging what has actually transpired there in the past 15 years as far as progress is concerned.

    12. Re:Escape from Silicon Valley by BWJones · · Score: 2

      Seriously though, a couple of years ago we sold a house in the valley and it was an absolutely shocking process. Our house was on the market for all of four hours and our realtor accepted the final offer of %58 more than our asking price.

      Another friend of ours and his wife work for Adobe and they just purchased their first house.....a fixer upper......for......$968000. The place needs a completely new roof!

      Another friend of ours was telling us that their kids school (private) cannot keep teachers because the teacher cannot afford to live in the valley. The school was handing out $15000 checks for teachers to work at the school for a year, but after that year, the teachers still cannot afford the cost of living and they leave.

      My final little anecdote comes from my last trip to the valley several months ago. I flew into the San Jose airport, got picked up by the limo and was sitting in the back seat just looking out the window on my way to a meeting. I noticed that we were sitting at an intersection and at all four corners of the intersection I estimated there were at least $800000 work of automobiles. Porsches, BMW's, Mercedes Benz, a Ferrari, an Audi A8, and other higher end automobiles. And then sitting at a bus stop next to my car there was a woman in a janitors uniform with three kids. The two older kids (probably 9 and 11) were in school uniforms and the youngest was in swaddling. This woman probably could not afford a car, was working as a janitor cleaning the offices of all these folks in their fancy cars while putting her two older kids through school. Despite the charitable contributions that my wife and I make to our local schools, our local soup kitchen, public radio, our local university and medical charities, It made me really self conscious and found myself grateful to have the deep tint on the windows.

      --
      Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    13. Re:Escape from Silicon Valley by TWR · · Score: 2
      Do you have actual numbers to support your claim? I'm pretty sure that NYC is supporting the rest of the state, not the other way around.

      Unless things have changed since the mid-1990's, I think you're wrong. Guiani yelled at Newt Gingritch for calling NYC a drain on the federal government. Rudy pointed out that NYC was a net giver of money to the feds, while Newt's home district of Marietta, GA was a net receiver of funds from the feds. Yes, I know this is federal funds, and not state funds, but I remember reading around that time that the costs of social services upstate are way more than what is brought in by taxes upstate.

      BTW, I'm not an NYC dweller. Well, not anymore.

      -jon

      --

      Remember Amalek.

    14. Re:Escape from Silicon Valley by barzok · · Score: 2

      "If it's north of New York City, then it's upstate New York" system"

      The majority of Upstaters do use that system. Actually, anything north of the PA border if you extend the line across to CT.

      Albany weather can get pretty nasty; they had more storms there this past winter than the lake-effect snow belt (Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse).

    15. Re:Escape from Silicon Valley by Gleef · · Score: 2

      Pxtl writes:

      I have friends who grew up in those places. Unless you have your own car and license, you must be chauffeured, or you get no life.

      I live in Albany, NY. While the public transportation system is not as comprehensive as New York City's, it is quite extensive and effective. From everything I've heard, it beats out Los Angeles's system in both coverage and hours.

      --

      ----
      Open mind, insert foot.
    16. Re:Escape from Silicon Valley by Skyshadow · · Score: 2
      Er, actually, I was being sarcastic. Sorry, I should have labelled it.

      Point, though: home prices are at an all-time high, probably due to the nesting instinct triggered deep in our monkey DNA by 9-11. I still rent.

      --
      Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
  2. Does Distance Matter? by idfrsr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why are they so excited about a location that is over 100 miles from their nearest constituent company (IBM)?

    Does it matter how far you are away now things like distributed systems, video conference calls and such are making the distance less and less of a practical issue.

    --
    "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away" -Tom Waits
    1. Re:Does Distance Matter? by Ioldanach · · Score: 3, Informative
      Why are they so excited about a location that is over 100 miles from their nearest constituent company (IBM)?

      Don't forget there are a few good colleges around here. Among them is RPI, which I recall being one of the first to get a chip going over 1GHz (1.2 GHz if I recall, before it melted). Add to that SUNY Albany, which is a pretty good state school, and there's GE Power Systems down the street, as well as Plug Power (Fuel Cell developers). Quite a few technical developments have come out of this area.

    2. Re:Does Distance Matter? by donnacha · · Score: 2

      Don't forget there are a few good colleges around here. Among them is RPI, which I recall being one of the first to get a chip going over 1GHz (1.2 GHz if I recall, before it melted).
      Oh, so, that's where AMD got their technology from.
  3. Re:I don't understand by idfrsr · · Score: 2, Funny

    ....because technology geeks have no need for distractions like "oceans", "beaches" and "bars"

    I wouldn't want my research monkeys running around a beach scaring the fish...

    --
    "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away" -Tom Waits
  4. why would they move? by Maeryk · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well, Albany is nicely located in NYS. Its also close enough to Canada that drawing people over the border to work there is feasible. Add to that the fact that its not a terrible part of the country weather/climate wise. (We dont get earthquakes, typhoons, torrential flooding, mudslides, wildfires a-la the west, and damn few tornados) and you have a safe place for your busines.

    It is also considered NE corridor (or close to it) and they can probably suck in a lot of people who have been downsized/lost here due to the horrible economical situations of late. Many people probably wouldnt relocate to California or Texas, but might move an hour west to be in Albany from NYC.

    Plus, you get all the people from NYC who dont want to live IN NYC but want to be close enough to visit.

    I live about 2.5 hours from NYC, and we have people living here who work there, and *drive* there daily. the number of cars that sat empty in train and bus station lots after 9-11 kind of pointed that one home pretty hard.

    Its not a bad part of the country.. NY state may also have much more lenient laws on things like pollution, building, etc etc. Probably lower land prices has a lot to do with it as well. And lower taxes.

    Maeryk

    --
    Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
    1. Re:why would they move? by Sabalon · · Score: 2

      Given that people don't really like to live in the city as much as commute in (not that Albany is that huge, but a house beats an apartment for any family oriented person), what are the conditions outside of Albany?

      When we visit the in-laws, we fly into Albany and head about an hour east...very depressing some parts - mountain "towns" that have nothing other than maybe a gas station.

      I know that right across the hudson, you've got things like Schnectedy (why do towns in NY have to be so hard to spell?) and it didn't seem that bad - but usually we just drive through. Didn't seem like someplace I'd like to live, then again driving through on the main roads, you usually just see the business areas and houses with crummy location...could be some nice areas right off the road.

      Then again, Poughkeepsie, Red Hook, New Paltz, etc... isn't that far out of the way to be ruled out either. Especially with the train.

      About the only thing (and it's what keeps my wife from moving back) is the winters. Some people just hate the cold and snow.

      But I'm all for seeing New England revitalizing itself. Too many little towns (like where my wife is from) that are beautiful locations, but with the mills that closed, they just can't support an economy.

    2. Re:why would they move? by Sabalon · · Score: 2

      Poughkeepsie isn't that bad is it? Or has it gotten much worse in the last 10 years? Actually, come to think of it, it is kinda scummy, but there are lots of places within a short drive that are nice, or like I said, were 10 years ago (Hyde Park, Red Hook, Pleasant Valley, etc...)

    3. Re:why would they move? by LinuxHam · · Score: 2

      Albany is really pretty though.

      Albany may have nice areas, but its a lot like Baltimore. Like 3 square blocks that are nice, and the rest are totally blown out. I was driving through there, and kids pelted my truck with ice balls. With rocks in the middle. Luckily they didn't see the police car behind me.

      So he fired shot over their heads.

      --
      Intelligent Life on Earth
    4. Re:why would they move? by catfood · · Score: 3, Informative
      But I'm all for seeing New England revitalizing itself.

      What does this article have to do with New England?

      (Hint: New York isn't part of New England, even though York is part of England.)

    5. Re:why would they move? by Maeryk · · Score: 2

      Thanks for the info! I wasnt aware.. I live in PA.. (State motto: Welcome to Pennsylvania, the Laws are Different here!")

      THere is a reason I said "may" :)

      Maeryk

      --
      Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
    6. Re:why would they move? by I_redwolf · · Score: 2

      Occasional earthquake in NY.. heh.. thats funny. I mean I'd agree with the snow storms and thunderstorms but ummm they don't call em Nor'Easters for nothing and also tornadoes rarely reach Troy or upstate NY as they barely even reach nyc. If you look at a tornados path it usually comes out the coast hits places like Myrtle beach etc and then slowly starts to swing right out to sea. It's been like that for years even with the odd El Nino weather.

    7. Re:why would they move? by Gambit+Thirty-Two · · Score: 2

      Its really not bad depending on where you live. Dont live in the CITY of poughkeepsie. the TOWN of poughkeepsie is much much better...

    8. Re:why would they move? by Preposterous+Coward · · Score: 2
      Welcome to Pennsylvania, the Laws are Different here!

      Did they ever raise the speed limit? I remember back in the 80s and 90s, driving across the border and being greeted by a big sign that basically said "Welcome to Pennsylvania, where the state speed limit is still 55 mph and fines for speeding are as follows:" Having gotten used to driving in states where the limits were 70-75 outside of urbanized areas, that always made me laugh (and slow down ;-)

      --

      "Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
    9. Re:why would they move? by Maeryk · · Score: 2

      Did they ever raise the speed limit? I remember back in the 80s and 90s, driving across the border and being greeted by a big sign that basically said "Welcome to Pennsylvania, where the state speed limit is still 55 mph and fines for speeding are as follows:" Having gotten used to driving in states where the limits were 70-75 outside of urbanized areas, that always made me laugh (and slow down ;-)

      Yeah. We went up to 65 on certain roads.. but half the turnpike is still 55, inexplicably. Stands to reason though, states that moved above 55 MPH risked losing government funding for roads and highways. If you know ANYTHING about PennDOT you realize its corrupt as all get out and cant fix a road ANYWAY, let alone without government funding. Add to that that PA has more miles of road than any other state in the union, and you realize the issue.

      But yeah.. we are still backwards.. we still have to go to a state-run store to get booze, and a beer specific store to get beer in anything over a six pack. Beer is sold ONLY in cases.. (24 for you canucks, eh?) and you cant mix and match within the case, unless it was produced that way.

      You should drive from Bristol Tennessee to PA sometime.. you cross something like 5 states (Tn, Va, WV, MD, PA) and *all* of them have different speed limits, driving rules (drive right pass left) turn on red status and everything else. And they are posted on a postage stamp sign at the worst possible place to stop and try and read them on a blind corner on a high speed four lane road.

      Maeryk

      --
      Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
    10. Re:why would they move? by guttentag · · Score: 2
      Well, Albany is nicely located in NYS. Its also close enough to Canada that drawing people over the border to work there is feasible.
      Sorry, I hear the judges buzzing in on this one. The two nearest major Canadian cities are Montreal (4-hour drive through the mountains, icy and dangerous in the winter) and Toronto (7-hour drive on the well-plowed, toll-based NYS Thruway). Suggesting that the consortium is going to Albany to be close to Canada less correct than suggesting companies move to Silicon Valley to be close to Los Angeles and San Diego. As for NYC, I don't think a prime factor in the decision was the prospect of being only three hours from a weekend in the Big Apple.
      Add to that the fact that its not a terrible part of the country weather/climate wise. (We dont get earthquakes, typhoons, torrential flooding, mudslides, wildfires a-la the west, and damn few tornados) and you have a safe place for your busines.
      NYS gets earthquakes (In the 2.5 years I've lived in California, we've had one earthquake strong enough to be felt, but it was milder than the the 5.1 that hit Plattsburgh on April 20?), hurricanes and snowstorms. I've lived in Syracuse, where the piles of plowed and shoveled snow can get so high you can't see the road from the sidewalk. The weather in New York can be just as bad as the weather elsewhere.

      As for tornados, I can remember over a dozen tornado warnings during the years I lived on Long Island, though I don't recall any of them destroying anything. However, the northeast is not immune: less than a year ago a tornado in Washington, DC picked up a car and smashed it into the trees in front of the dorm where I used to live, killing both passengers.

      Economically, upstate NY is so dead the state government is lending credence to a man who wants to build a $2 billion mall in Syracuse (next to the large Carousel mall he built several years ago) simply so his grandchildren will have a reason to not flee New York. No one knows where the money's going to come from, but Gov. Pataki and the Post-Standard treat the proposal as though it's just a matter of time.

      As a NY native, I recognize that New York isn't a bad place to live. But I posed the question because the article says the consortium didn't even negotiate with any other U.S. cities, whereas last time they talked to 36. I was hoping someone might have some insight into what makes Albany so much more important than the rest of the country that it would preclude the consortium from considering anyone else.

    11. Re:why would they move? by SquadBoy · · Score: 2

      I'm not sure from your post just what you meant but if you are claiming that NY does not have earthquakes on occasion you are what we like to call wrong.

      http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/04/20/new.england.tre mo rs/

      http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=U TF -8&q=new+york+earthquake

      --

      Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
    12. Re:why would they move? by I_redwolf · · Score: 2

      http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/epic/epic.html
      http://n eic.usgs.gov/neis/states/new_york/new_york _history.html
      http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/states/ne w_york/new_york _seismicity.html
      http://www.ldgo.columbia.edu/lcn .html

      The national center for earthquake Engineering stuff you'll have to search google for compare all the above with the original posters california stuff.

      http://www.erh.noaa.gov/er/bgm/tornado/maintor.h tm l

      "A tornado is a rare occurrence in central New York and northeast Pennsylvania. Since 1950, there have been 128 tornadoes reported in the Binghamton forecast area. This area is composed of 24 counties in central New York and northeast Pennsylvania.

      New York State ranks 30th and Pennsylvania 25th in the total number of tornadoes reported in the United States from 1950 to 1996. See the Storm Prediction Center for the complete list."

      http://www.spc.noaa.gov/archive/tornadoes/st50-9 6t .htm

      New York is 30 outta the 51 states from 1950-1996

      It seems most if not all of you are quite mistaken.

    13. Re:why would they move? by I_redwolf · · Score: 2

      I never said NY doesn't have earthquakes on occassion.. Hell even NYC has earthquakes; you could move anywhere on earth and always be subject to an earthquake. I'm claiming the original poster using something as california in comparison is extremely laughable considering all of the data on major faults.

    14. Re:why would they move? by Gambit+Thirty-Two · · Score: 2

      oi. yeah, definitely understandable. thats a parkinglot now. im up closer to arlington now.... about a mile from "the city", but a nice place. im like halfway between the city and the farmlands.

    15. Re:why would they move? by Gleef · · Score: 2

      hyperturbopete writes:

      Ahem.
      (1) Snow.

      Yay! Snow!

      (2) 5 hours from any major city.

      I don't know what you consider a "major" city. I grew up in NYC, and I consider Albany a major city, as opposed to minor cities like Oneonta or Mechanicville or metropolitan areas like NYC or Boston.

      However, Albany is 2.5-3 hours from New York City, 3 hours from Boston and 3.5 hours from Montreal. If New York City isn't major enough to count as a major city for you, there's no place in the US that's within five hours drive of a major city (the closest city bigger than NYC is Mexico City; Cairo and Tokyo are way too far away).

      --

      ----
      Open mind, insert foot.
  5. why not? by Dalroth · · Score: 2

    What's wrong with Albany New York? I hate to say this, but New York City, L.A. and San Francisco/Silcon Valley are *NOT* the center of this vast and great country of ours!

    We have thousands of cities across 50 states that could all just as easily serve this purpose. Quite frankly, I find it really refreshing that other people/places in this country is being given a chance.

    Not everything has to be (nor should it be) congregated into one small hub. That's how companies and governments die (think of those poor companies who were housed 100% in the WTC buildings as an example). Our tech industry SHOULD be spread across the country, it's too important to be otherwise.

    1. Re:why not? by nomadic · · Score: 2

      I hate to say this, but New York City, L.A. and San Francisco/Silcon Valley are *NOT* the center of this vast and great country of ours!

      Right, just New York City is.

  6. Sili-Hudson Valley? by Lev13than · · Score: 3, Funny

    I hear their next project is to turn Churchill, Manitoba into Sili-Hudson's Bay.

    --
    When you have nothing left to burn you must set yourself on fire
  7. TECH VALLEY YEAH! by dasmegabyte · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I live in Tech Valley, (Wynantskill, actually) and I can tell you a few of the reasons why it's so popular:

    1) Though taxes are high, the cost of living and operating are low -- at least 20-30% lower than in NYC. Which means you can offer an employee less money and it'll be worth more to them. Insurance is also cheaper.

    2) Tons of infrastructure. A lot of big fat unfettered pipes and buildings waiting to be filled.

    3) Nice setting. Those pictures of your corporate headquarters at the top of a rolling green hill surrounded by trees sure beat the arrow-pointing-to-an-office-floor stuff some people have to deal with. We've got nice sprawl for your employees, too (not a good thing if you, as i do, live on the street leading to the sprawl, but there you are).

    4) RPI. RPI graduates tons of brilliant tech youths with experience in wierd technology. RPI honors and grad students create all sorts of brilliant tech advances, and when they get their sheepskins they'll need some place to hole out for 20-30 years. A wise tech company grabs them while they're young and cheap...we have a dozen consulting companies around for this reason; hell, even Microsoft has a recruitment office here.

    5) Dude, you're 2 hours from Canada, 2 hours from the City, 2 hours from the shore, Cape Cod in the summer, Vermont in the winter...it's nice in NY man.

    --
    Hey freaks: now you're ju
    1. Re:TECH VALLEY YEAH! by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      Of course you actually live in the quaint little town North Greenbush, Wynantskill is actually a Hamlet of NG. And I am not sure if you rember this or not but a fiew years ago North Greenbush in its less then infinate wisdome decided not to allow the making of a chip plant in the area. Which is odd because this quant unassuming town has a Tech Park with good size Tech Companies such as Mapinfo and Unified. The real question to this are these suberbs of albany going to welcome all these people.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  8. Re:It's about time by TWR · · Score: 2
    As an RPI grad myself, I am stunned that anyone in Troy would worry about polution. The Hudson isn't exactly the cleanest river around. Didn't GE in Schenectady dumb a few billion tons of PCBs into the river right around there?

    Troy was a mess when I was there years ago. I can't imagine that it's gotten better in the meantime.

    This would be great news for RPI, though.

    -jon

    --

    Remember Amalek.

  9. Re:Thanks a lot, Sematech, for ruining Austin by TWR · · Score: 2
    The only coolness in the Hudson Valley area is the frigid temperatures that start right after Labor Day and end the day after finals at RPI...

    -jon

    --

    Remember Amalek.

  10. RPI by !splut · · Score: 2

    They'd have a steady steady supply of applicants from local universities. Particularly I'm thinking of RPI, which is just across the river in Troy, and has excellent CS and engineering programs...

    And it's a beautiful area. Near the adirondacs and catskills. Near Lage George. A freshly dredged Hudson River (new lower PCB content!). 3 hour trainride to NYC, but without the big city drawbacks.

    It has all the requirements for an excellent technological hub. Plus snowstorms that drop a good two feet of snow in February, which is really something the Silicon Valley currently lacks.

    --
    The angel in the oatmeal.
  11. IBM and hudson valley... by powerlinekid · · Score: 2

    Ok, I work at IBM. My father works at IBM. Good number of my friend's parents work at IBM. IBM is single handedly the most influencial and important business in this area (dutchess, ulster county roughly an hour from albany). When they layed off all those people in the early 90s, our economy went to shit. Many people I know were layed off, closing one plant (kingston) and cutting back in the poughkeepsie plant and east fishkill plants. A few thoughts on why albany. One would be that its the closest large city to here, for convention center and office buildings. NYC is further and more of a hassle. Poughkeepsie, which i believe has a population of 50-100 thousand, is a dump. Yeah there are some nice parts, and I would absolutely love for it to be here (more job opportunities) but its really not that kind of city. Albany also is pretty much the center of the state. If it was NYC, the rochester (Eastman/Kodac, RIT, etc) people would have quite a trip, same for the buffalo people (not to mention Massachusetts, Connecticut, etc). It seems to me that all and all Albany probably is the most logical place. Theres plenty of room, its a relativly decent city and its in a rather convenient location. I hope all of this really does go through because we could definitly use more of a tech industry than IBM.

    --

    can't sleep slashdot will eat me
  12. The answer is in the question by Rupert · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why are they so excited about a location that is over 100 miles from their nearest constituent company?

    slightly further up:

    New York State will supply the remaining $210 million

    It always feels good to get money back from the government.

    --

    --
    E_NOSIG
    1. Re:The answer is in the question by guttentag · · Score: 2
      Read the article:
      In its 1987 search for a home for its first center, Sematech considered offers from 36 states -- New York was one of the finalists -- trying to top each other in financial sweeteners. In the end, the chip makers contributed $125 million and the federal government $100 million. Texas put up $62 million... and made low-interest mortgages available to Sematech employees. But money alone did not carry the day -- New York had offered $80 million and Massachusetts more than $200 million. This time, the consortium negotiated seriously with only New York and a few foreign governments.
      Money was not the deciding factor when they chose Austin in the 80s (they're not even getting any tax breaks out of this, which would normally be a huge part of the incentive), so why didn't they talk to anyone else in the U.S. this time? It sounds like they had their mind made up before negotiating a price: it's either Albany or another country. What's so special about Albany that precluded consideration of every other U.S. location?
  13. Within Reason by Skyshadow · · Score: 2
    I'd say distance doesn't matter so much as long as you have a decent communications infrastructure and are in the same or immediately adjacent time zones.

    I've found things really suck when, say, you're trying to work on the east coast and west coast (much less having people overseas) -- it's tough getting people together for meetings, tough to have people travel back and forth (you pretty much always lose a day flying west-to-east three time zones, whereas you can get between, say, San Jose and Boulder rather easily).

    But man, if I never have to work directly with another set of developers in India, it'll be too soon -- that was just a nightmare.

    --
    Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
  14. Albany is a hidden gem. by duffbeer703 · · Score: 2

    There are plenty of educated people and none of the traffic problems that you have in larger metro areas. If you live in Saratoga Springs, a popular suburb about 40-50 miles north you have an hour's commute.

    This facility is going to be located right near two big highways, about 50 minutes from IBM headquarters. IBM has a big investment in the area, and NYS Government spends massive quanities of cash on IBM.

    There is a whole office campus that the state is vacating to attract startups with cheap rents and prime office space.

    --
    Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
  15. Location, location by wytcld · · Score: 2

    Albany sits on a pretty nice conjunction of Interstates running to NYC, Boston, Montreal & points west, not to mention the Taconic Parkway running to NYC via Armonk. The city may be dreary, but the countyside in every direction is quite fine, surrounded as it is by the Adirondacks (one of the largest parks in the country), the Catskills, and the Green Mountains of Vermont, so the second home and ski-ing opportunities are wide open. It's also a good distance from any terrorist target (unlike NYC and Boston), and it's not in Texas.
    ___

    --
    "with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
  16. Capital district by ProfBooty · · Score: 2

    Yes NY state taxes are high, but housing is very cheap in the Albany area. Traffic is very light. There is plenty of land to be developed and a good amount of empty buildings. Population is somewhere around 600k+ there as well.

    You have one of the top engineering schools in the country RPI (NOT RIT) which consistantly is ranked by working engineers as one of the top 3 (Beating out MIT). General Electric is nearby and IBM is about 1.5 hours away. There is plenty of underused infrastructure (highways and cable) and an international airport nearby.

    For recreation, you are 30-40 miles from both vermont and massachuessess so its easy to go skiing, lake george is 1 hour away and its about 2.5 hours to boston or NYC (3-4 to montreal).

    It doesn't snow too much up there, but ice is a concern in the winter.

    On a side note during my years at RPI i read that Troy has a population of 50k. I'm not sure where they all live though. Troy could use the money, last time i was there, the city Hall still read Tr city hall.

    --
    Bring back the old version of slashdot.
    1. Re:Capital district by ProfBooty · · Score: 2

      actually, it rains a lotmore in troy and there is a lot more wind than in suny since it is located on a hill right above the hudson.

      i used totake classes at suny and it would be sunny there and rainy back in troy

      --
      Bring back the old version of slashdot.
  17. Re:I don't understand by lucabrasi999 · · Score: 3, Informative

    The reason they aren't putting it in Charleston, SC is because Albany has RPI, Syracuse University, Cornell, NYU, Columbia, Yale, MIT and a whole slew of SUNY colleges all within about a three hour drive.

    SC has Clemson and a bunch of Cocks (Gamecocks, that is).

  18. One Word Explains it: "Illuminati" by FortKnox · · Score: 3, Funny

    Have you ever been to New York state (not the city, but upstate)??

    Its well forested, which is wonderful cover for Illuminati complexes.

    In desert areas, like Area51, humans eventually figure out something strange is going on; but in well forested areas, people just laugh at hunters "wild" stories.

    The Illuminati want the consortium, so they brought it close to home so no good secrets would leak outside their grip, before they allowed it.

    Now, I will give you specific coordinates to the entrance to their complex... wait... I hear someone com

    --
    Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
    1. Re:One Word Explains it: "Illuminati" by Levendis47 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA...

      The Illuminati is a ruse for the Pentavirate Cabal... or maybe it's the other way around...

      The Freemasons do have a good hold on the upstate NY area tho... George Washington (aka. Adam Weischupt) spread his "seed" far and wide in his day...

      --
      --==[ AOL YIM ICQ : Levendis47 : levendis47@yahoo.com ]==--
  19. why there? by lingqi · · Score: 2
    Why are they so excited about a location that is over 100 miles from their nearest constituent company (IBM)?

    same reason as (one of the reasons) why Silicon valley started:

    1) cheap land
    2) cheap energy

    somebody mentioned something about pollution: well, right now rochester, NY is one of the most heavily polluted cities in the US because of the Kodak plant there. i'm just dying to see (no pun, really) what's gonna happen after all these companies drop in. NY used to have more lax environmental laws than CA, which might be one of the reasons. that should (hopefully, anyway) be changing though.

    --

    My life in the land of the rising sun.

  20. Whoohoo! Endicott! by mstyne · · Score: 2

    A mention of IBM's facility in Endicott brought back some memories... okay, granted they were only from a few months back, but before I graduated from SUNY Binghamton, I used to drive through the facilities there a lot. The ominous stone wall with INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS MACHINES in small block letters really gives one a sense of nostaglia. Upstate NY is sort of a black hole when it comes to corporate enterprise and culture, maybe if some more businesses get the idea that it's cheap to operate there, the southern tier and capital city area will see some sort of renaissance. Right now, the only reason I would go to Albany is Mahar's Public Bar... I love me some Magic Hat!

    --
    mstyne: real name, no gimmicks
  21. A smaller target? by Geckoman · · Score: 2
    Except for being the capital of New York state, is there anything there to make Albany an enticing target for terrorists?

    After the attacks on NYC and Washington, it seems a lot of companies started questioning the wisdom of having large offices in high-profile locations.

    Plus you get the added benefits of living in a less crowded area (for now, anyway).

    1. Re:A smaller target? by multicsfan · · Score: 2

      The Watervliet Arsenal in Watervliet, across the river from Troy. As best I remember, the Watervliet arsenal is the only currently operating arsenals making all the gun barrels for Cannon and Artilery. It was also the only armory in the country that can handle 16" Battleship Cannon. This is where the gun barrels on the Battleships were handeled when the iowa class BB's were brought out of mothballs. There are alot of RPI projects around WWII concerning fabrication of long cylinders ;)

      Knolls Atomic in Niskayuna just down the street from GE Corporate R&D plus there are R&D groups in the downtown GE Complex. I believe there is a small R&D reactor at Knolls Atomic. I don't know the current situation, but at one time back in the early 80's RPI ran the reactor. Source: Student government meeting where the head of security admitted that he did have a pistol as it was required by federal law for refueling operations where he had to be there as part of the armed security.

      Ballston Spa. I don't know the official name of the place, but one of the Navy's nuclear sub training centers is there. Two of my RPI friends trained there before serving on Subs. Both had Rikover interviews as did several other of my friends in Navy ROTC.

      RPI has a Nuclear Engineering program which includes a linear accelerator. (I worked there one year doing programming). There is (or was) a very small nuclear pile on campus used for training the nuclear engineers. As I understand it, just hot enough to keep them on their toes.

      There is a company in the area that makes some critical jet engine part. They are the only company that makes them in the US. I believe its some type of gasket, but I don't remember the details of the conversation.

      I'm an RPI alumnus (class of '76) and still live in troy about a block from RPI. Unfortunatly I'm currently an unemployed *nix/network sysadmin/troubleshooter/etc. I still participate with a couple of student clubs (RPI-ACM www.acm.rpi.edu, and RPI Players).

      Back around 1980, IBM gave RPI an electron beam lithography machine. One of my friends worked on helping set it up.

      There was a grad course back when I was a Sophmore at RPI where you could design and build a small scale integrated circuit. The equipment was in the Materials Research Center, IIRC.

      Something I did not see mentioned is SPAC (Saratoga Performaing Arts Center) summer home of the NYC ballet and Philidelphia Philharmonic. They also have rock concerts. For those who like Coffee house style music there is Cafe Lena in Saratoga as well as the RPI student Union sponsered Mother's in the student union. Saratoga also has the Saratoga flat track as well as a Harness track. I'd put some pictures up, but I con't want to get slashdotted ;) I only have a 128K DSL line.

  22. Incredible Bowel Movements by T3kno · · Score: 2

    The smell from that plant is reported to travel in excess of 150 miles when the wind is right. :)

    --
    (B) + (D) + (B) + (D) = (K) + (&)
  23. Because Albany IS a hub already... by Levendis47 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I went to school at RPI in Troy, NY (mmmm, how I miss Troy-gray skies)...
    A few plusses for the Albany, NY area:

    1) RPI has an excellent BigBlue-funded circuit design and nano/micro-tech program that's been growing and growing and growing over the past 10 years. Esp. now with Shirley Anne Jackson (the new Institute Prez) pushing hard for commerciallizing of the research and grad programs a la MIT.

    2) Cost of living is dirt cheap. I live in Richmond,VA now, but the decade I spent in Albany pre/post-graduation, I never paid more than $500/month for rent and that got me a nice 800+ sqft. apartment on the Hudson waterfront.

    3) It's close to everything that deams itself important in the Northeast... 3 hours to Manhatten, 5 hours to Philly, 2.5 hours to Boston, 1-3 hours to skiing and manufacturing in Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachussetts, Connecticut, and PA, 3.5 hours to Canada.

    4) There's still good money to be invested in NYC and investors there are now looking for business plans that cut overhead and operations costs from the get-go... what better a place than one that takes less time to drive to than Hoboken or Hartford?

    Of course, I'm saying the same thing about Richmond, VA now... 8^) but kudos to them for seeing that area as greener pastures and not just a has-been relic that so many want to make it out to be.

    ciao,
    Levendis47

    --
    --==[ AOL YIM ICQ : Levendis47 : levendis47@yahoo.com ]==--
  24. You mean other than RPI, SUNYA and other schools by gelfling · · Score: 2

    RPI one of the preeminent science/engineering schools in the country. Suny-Albany one of the highest rated public universities in the country. Other corporate presence I think includes GE, Electric Boat, Watervliet Arsenal, NL industries. And BTW Albany is the 6th largest inland grain port in the world. It's also the capital of NY, like RTP is to NC and Austin is to TX so it's close to the seat of power and funding.

  25. Re:It's the women! by Tablizer · · Score: 2
    Well, Silicon Valley men to women ratio is wayyyyyyyyyyy tooooooooooo bad. I think the ratio at my company is 20:1.

    Worse yet, now that their porno will be taxed, they will have to actually find real dates.

    I don't know why NY is so eager to become another silicone valley after all the dot-com bustage. I guess they want their employment rate to go up and down like a psycho yo yo also. Maybe NY knows how to unionize to stop all the H1B visas during down times. Westies don't know how to do such things very well.

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  26. Re:Distance by LinuxHam · · Score: 2

    Actually, IBM has a very nice office on State St. I can't remember the cross street, but you can walk to the Pepsi Arena from there. I worked up there in February. 60mph winds and rain/ice that felt like freaking needles in your face.

    --
    Intelligent Life on Earth
  27. Re:ugh by Sabalon · · Score: 2

    I've been to Albany, Miami and San Diego.

    Surprisingly, Albany is the only one that I would wish to return to. San Diego and Miami are both just too big...not something I liked.

  28. Re:ugh by Computer! · · Score: 2

    . Look at Austin as an example. When technology moved into Austin, all sorts of new things came up.

    Yeah, like pollution, traffic, and cheesey nerds stuffing themselves into blue shirts and khakis, and then stuffing themselves into their overpriced SUVs, then stuffing themselves into 6th street clubs.

    Besides, if people are willing to move out to Texas, I dont think upstate New York is any worse.

    Spoken like a true non-Texan. You know there's no state income tax here? Oh, and air conditioning has been invented.

    --
    If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
  29. Middle of Nowhere by Oculus+Habent · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Some good points about being away from everything:

    • At night, you don't here sirens, and gunfire, and cars, and "city noise". You hear crickets, and wind, and a few cars.
    • When you want a breath of fresh air, you can get it.
    • If you want to go camping or hiking, swimming or fishing, et cetera, you can. You don't have to spend a few thousand planning a getaway when you're almost there.
    • At night, you can drive to where there are no street lights, and see the Milky Way. You can count shooting stars - even without meteor showers.
    • You can visit big cities and experience all the good things they have to offer if you choose, without having to life with the bad things.
    Of course, much of this depends on how far away from everything you are. And for those who want the best of both worlds - most times a large corporate development goes in, the surrounding areas become more metropolitan.

    And:

    • I don't ACTUALLY want to go to Miami or San Diego. Some people don't enjoy large cities, while others do.
    • If you think Albany, NY is the sticks, you've never travelled the open expanses of the Mid-West or the woods of Maine. Check the National Atlas and look at population density.
    • There may not be as many places to go, but there's plenty to do.

    Just thoughts.

    --
    That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
    1. Re:Middle of Nowhere by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      I live in Troy NY and I still do hear sirens (but average onces a week) Cars is depending how close you are to a main highway. Of course if you live on side roads then you will get less cars but if you live right along RT. 4 or RT. 7 Then there is a good amount of traffic.

      At night even without street lights the stars are not as good as it can be. You still get a glow from albany lighting up the sky. Sure it is better then NYC and Hartford but it is not great spots for serious astronomy.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:Middle of Nowhere by jafac · · Score: 2

      The charms of Middle of nowhere -

      I *do* hear gunfire some nights. Drunk cowboys driving up the street, shooting at yuppie cars parked outside. My neighbor got his VW shot up that way.

      I *do* hear crickets, and wind, and frogs (during the rainy season, the frogs can be almost deafening) - and - no shit, coyotes. Where we used to live, there were thunderstorms, and the kids were afraid of the thunder. Now they hear the coyotes and they come running.

      I do live very close to several state recreational parks, very convenient for camping and outdoor activities. Last July 4th weekend, my little town of 16k was jam-packed with 50,000 rowdy visitors with giant trucks and campers. Not fun.

      Out of my back yard, I can see the milky way, shooting stars, etc. Somewhat of a nice thing without a hidden "dark side".

      I'm so far away from the big cities, there's no big rock concerts, no opera, no plays, no nightclubs, (at least we have plenty of movie theaters, including one of the very very few drive-in's left - and some good local dining). Every store knows that there's no competition, so you pay through the nose for anything other than groceries. "Shopping" means either the internet, or driving 250 miles to the nearest big city. Repair people often make appointments to come and fix something, then they blow you off completely, and they know they won't lose any business. And the people are CONSERVATIVE. Like, *religious freak* social conservative. Not fiscal conservative. I got called for Jury duty last year. The case: Alleged horse thief. I shit you not.

      There *is* a major university nearby, which is nice, because there are actual people younger than I am, the next town over. Unfortunately, housing prices are fucking outrageous because of that. (like, almost Silicon Valley-outrageous).

      If I lost my job, I'd be fucked. I'd have to move.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  30. Re:It's about time by nomadic · · Score: 2

    Actually, it has. The Hudson is MUCH cleaner than it was before; near the headwaters it's now possible to eat fish caught in it, and swim in the once-filthy waters. Of course, the farther you get downstream the worse it gets, and water around here (NYC) is still dioxin and heavy-metal enriched, but still noticeably cleaner.

  31. Re:RTP, North Carolina by vanguard · · Score: 2

    I've lived in RTP for the last three+ years. I do truly love it. If you want to continue your education, work in technology, and raise a family it's perfect. However, I do have my concerns.

    Most of the employers here are large companies and many of them have taken major hits (Cisco, IBM, Nortel, Lucent, etc.). The fact that there isn't a huge number of smaller companies has created a risk that 10,000 jobs will get slashed in a single bad day. It seems like 1,000 people are tossed on the street by Nortel or Lucent every day. Anyway, great area, not enough small employers. The same problem is awaiting Albany.

    Vanguard

    --
    That which does not kill me only makes me whinier
  32. Sematech Funding by Lysander+Luddite · · Score: 2

    From 1988 to 1995, Sematech received $815 million in federal funding. That was half of their total funding budget. Since 1996 Sematech claims they only secure private funding. Now New York is paying $200 million.

    Perhaps with the tech slump they are back to seeking government funding. Since the perceived loss of US DRAM production was the reason for starting Sematech in the first place.

    Whatever happens you can be sure none of that tax money will be seen by the taxpayers again.

    1. Re:Sematech Funding by afidel · · Score: 2

      Actually getting money out of the government is the best thing that can happen to the economy. The government has the lowest return on money spent in the entire economy, so getting it into the hands of businesses that are going to use it to expand the economy is a great use of tax dollars. For every dollar spent on this project probably 20-30 will go back into the local economy.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  33. Just like the twenty other Silicon-Whatevers... by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 2
    ...this one will die a silent, lonely death.

    You can't force the creation of a tech economy.

    The first and most obvious point even if you were going to attempt such an inane enterprise is why you would put it in North America at all. India and China are clearly the emerging markets for this type of work.

  34. Re:GE R&D by WebMasterJoe · · Score: 2

    As a former intern at the GE R&D center, I can say that yes, they do have one in Niskayuna, just a few minutes outside Albany. And it's friggin' huge.

    Also worth noting, RPI is just a ten minute drive away from downtown (full of lots of smart computer geeks), and SUNY Albany has, well, lots of students. Then there is the College of Saint Rose, which has something like a 4:1 girl/guy ratio.

    --
    I really hate signatures, but go to my website.
  35. to RPI or not to RPI by Misha · · Score: 2

    I am not going to diss RPI. hell, i applied and contemplated it as well. but claiming that your school is the best after ONLY having experienced your school is silly.

    RPI is decent, but does it rank among the best CS and engineering schools? my guess would be no. Albany is close to tons of other universities, each with just as many if not more accolades as RPI. SUNY/Binghampton is an hour south-west, Cornell -- 2 hours south-west, Syracuse -- 1 hour west, UofR -- 2 hours west, SUNY/Buffalo -- 3 hours west, UMass/Amherst -- 2 hours east, MIT -- 3 hours east, SUNY/Stony Brook -- 2 hours south.

    of course, we are dangerously close to getting into state vs. private school debate, but claiming proximity to the "best" school around as a major factor in the decision to put a research lab in Albany is shortsighted. If Silicon Valley was there because of Stanford and Berkeley, shouldn't we see the same trend in Boston and Pittsburgh? yet, there hardly is a tech-boom near MIT and CMU comparable to that of northern california. similarly, a smaller tech-boom near DC is hardly attributed to proximity to UMD, UVA and VATech.

    just MHO...

    --



    I was thinking of how to intentionally fail my drug test... It would make a good memoir story someday.
    1. Re:to RPI or not to RPI by TWR · · Score: 2
      RPI does rank among the best Engineering schools, consistently.

      CS? Well, it's pretty good, but it doesn't hang with CMU, MIT, Stanford, U-C Berkeley, U-W Madison, or UMd College Park (or a few other schools that I'm forgetting) in research output.

      However, RPI puts a lot more effort into undergrad education than a lot of other schools, so it's a tradeoff. Back in the day, even intro CS classes (heck, virtually EVERY class at every level) at RPI were taught by professors. I don't know if this is still true.

      -jon

      --

      Remember Amalek.

  36. Now THAT's spin! by catfood · · Score: 2
    The really unusual thing about the deal is that the state isn't offering any tax breaks or loans to lure the consortium to its capital.

    Only a perpetrator or hapless victim of "spin" would look at the state paying outright cash for half of the cost of the new center and say, "Hey, the state isn't offering loans or tax breaks!"

  37. Re:It is a good location. by nomadic · · Score: 2

    Damn, you RPI guys are so insecure. So many posts extolling the virtues of the school, insistences that they would just have to be involved in a project like this, comparisons to MIT insisting that RPI is better.

    I mean, it's a good school guys, you don't have to be so insecure about it.

  38. bah by Lord+Omlette · · Score: 2

    When I read 'Sili-Hudson', I assumed ya'll were talking about the Hudson River by Manhattan, not Albany in upstate NY... Hoboken sucks, we need more tech companies down here >_<

    --
    [o]_O
  39. Re:I don't understand by pmz · · Score: 2

    James Island, SC

    I lived in SC briefly. Considering the poor infrastructure and poor education system, I just don't know why tech companies aren't flocking there. There has been some success luring heavier industry to the state, but the overall high-tech market there is just sub-par.

    Now if they start funneling real money into the public schools, then things might start changing. And while they're at it they could start repaving and painting roads. Many SC roads are so bad that one would think they have hard winters or something.

    Granted, the cost of living is average, and the beaches are nice. Get one of the million-doller beach houses on a private island, and it's even a nice place to retire.

    --
    Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
  40. Re:Most heavily polluted? Cite your sources.. by phillymjs · · Score: 2

    http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q= Rochester+Kodak+pollution

    I look forward to seeing whatever query you'll be submitting as an "Ask Slashdot" in the near future, since all of their recent ones have come from other people too lazy to do a Google search for one thing or another. :-)

    ~Philly

  41. Re:I don't understand by sehryan · · Score: 2

    Maybe because you're right on the ocean, and are very close to the beaches and bars of Charleston, SC.

    Not only that, but Charleston is a tourism town, as is Hilton Head. I can think of many places in SC where a tech center isn't a bad idea, but Chucktown isn't one of them.

    --
    The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe.
  42. Re:Thanks a lot, Sematech, for ruining Austin by TWR · · Score: 2
    Some people don't know a joke when they see it...

    I haven't been in the Hudson Valley region in almost a decade, but when I was, I was at RPI. Any RPI student who had a tenth of the fun you are having would never have graduated (as a point of reference, I had several friends who did have the kind of fun you're describing, and they didn't make it out of RPI with a degree).

    Maybe things are different now, but I doubt it.

    -jon

    --

    Remember Amalek.

  43. Re:It's about time by TWR · · Score: 2
    "The armpit of New York", eh? When I was there it was "The armpit of America". I guess things have improved...

    That is a great URL, BTW.

    -jon

    --

    Remember Amalek.

  44. Their Poor Children! by nick_davison · · Score: 3, Funny
    Has nobody told them that since the end of the dotcom boom, there's been a mandatory death sentence on anyone coining Silicon[Exciting Geographic Term]?! Their poor children will now have to grow up alone, knowing Daddy was too stupid to avoid buzzword Silicon- prefixes.

    Have you noticed how every state seemed have a SiliconSomewhere two years ago that was going to push that state forward and now no one remembers them except for the poor fools who thought moving from SiliconValley to SiliconCornPlanes really was a good career move?

    Still, at least he can go to SiliconJail before being executed at SiliconGallows, his body taken along SiliconRoad to SiliconGraveyard and dumped in SiliconHoleintheground.

    Of course, whoever came up with this also probably still calls themselves an E-Consultant and still works for an i-deas firm.

  45. Re:NY suing escaping companies? by nomadic · · Score: 2

    What are you talking about? Taxes in NY state aren't that bad; if they were so many companies wouldn't set up shop there. Besides which, most of them incorporate in like Delaware, so they're not paying nearly as much as you seem to think.

    While you may disagree with my philosophy about achievement and rights (see Atlas Shrugged [atlasshrugged.tv] you cannot fail to see the problems when a state uses force to keep a company from exercising their right to move their company elsewhere.

    Considering how shamelessly corps threaten to leave in order to get tax breaks, I don't really mind if the state fights back.

  46. One main problem with Albany by jellomizer · · Score: 2

    Albany NY Is a highly political minded area. You have to keep in mind that most of the population works for the state. I grew up in a Albany suberb and my high school had a bad food ball team but our Debate team was top in the nation. But with all the political action. A lot of people are extreamly Political Correct and going to political correct schools. From all this political correctness a lot of people wont talk to anyone else with the fear of offending them.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  47. "We dont get earthquakes" -- hah by Preposterous+Coward · · Score: 2
    Don't fool yourself. Every part of the country gets earthquakes. They may not be as frequent as in California -- rare enough that you may even live your life without experiencing one -- but they do happen. Example: "The biggest earthquake on record in New York rolled underneath Massena and Cornwall, Ontario, early on Sept. 5, 1944, toppling chimneys, collapsing roofs and splitting open the ground. It registered 5.9 on the Richter Scale - strong enough to be felt in Detroit - and caused $2 million worth of damage." Or this: "Certainly, seismic activity on the East Coast is much less than the West Coast. But, if you look at the risk, the potential is just as great because of the population along the eastern seaboard."

    It's true that 5.9 isn't particularly big by west coast standards, but really really huge earthquakes do sometimes strike in surprising places. Example: "In the winter of 1811-12, the central Mississippi Valley was struck by three of the most powerful earthquakes in U.S. history." What's more, "Because of differences in the geology east and west of the Rocky Mountains, the effects of a magnitude 7 quake in the midcontinental United States could be far worse than those of the 1989 magnitude 7 Loma Prieta, California, earthquake."

    So don't get complacent. Earthquakes in east coast states aren't as common, but they can be nearly as large and are often shallower (causing more surface damage); furthermore, the structures, people, and emergency systems are not as well prepared to handle these infrequent events as they are in places like California where they happen all the time.

    --

    "Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
  48. Re:Thanks a lot, Sematech, for ruining Austin by max+cohen · · Score: 2

    You must not have lived in Austin long because you've already forgotten the deeply embedded myth: ruined the city and it sucks and it'll never be the same. If would just leave, things would be way cooler.

    The fact is, no matter when you got here, it was always better before you did.

  49. Re:Albany will NOT become Austin. by y0yodyne · · Score: 2, Interesting

    SUNY Albany doesn't even have an engineering college--- or even an engineering department!

    Back in the mid '80s, SUNY Albany planned to start a school of engineering. When RPI got wind of it, they flexed their political muscle and derailed the effort. Why? Because if you could get a decent engineering degree with yearly tuition of $2000 (circa 1985), why would you go to RPI to pay $10000 per year?

  50. Re:I don't understand by pmz · · Score: 2

    Also, you don't want to set up your research hub too close to a big city. There is too much competition for comptuer talent.

    With respect to SC:

    1) There are no big cities. The biggest cities are Greenville, Columbia, Spartenburg, and Charleston, but they aren't too big for tech by any measure. I'm sure any of them and their congressmen would be kissing the feet of a big company looking for a new home.

    2) There may be competition in places like Greenville/Spartenburg, but, elsewhere, I think your're okay for a job if you vaguely know what a "computer" is. Most of SC is pretty low-tech, meaning it is hard for a person to find really good employers in addition to it being hard for employers to find really good employees.

    SC just lacks the technological "oomph" of places like New England, Texas, and California. On the upside, SC's cost-of-living index is nearly 1.0 (New York City, for example is 2.5+).

    --
    Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
  51. Yeah, right... by Cheetahfeathers · · Score: 2

    I wanna freeze my *ss off and eat only boring american food. Let's move somewhere away from fairly nice weather, a hugely great and diverse selection of culture (including it's great food), and so many other nice things that makes it a great place to live.

    Places for me to move to, other than the silly valley, would have to be diverse in terms of culture, very accepting of alternate lifestyles (ie. it would have to be somewhat civilized), and NOT have snow. Not even a little snow. The most I've seen here is some in the tops of the hills near here, not any down below.

    1. Re:Yeah, right... by multicsfan · · Score: 2
      Well there are at last 2 excellent Indian restaurants, one in downtown Troy. There are several nice Japanese restaurants with hibachi (sp) tables. There is a nice indonesian restaurant. There are many others in the area, I'm only mentioning the ones I personaly have sampled.

      Both SUNY Albany and RPI have several foreign student organizations. I know the RPI ones usually do a presentation on their country including food samples once or twice a year. I ran one of the student film programs. I got an emergancy call one saturday to show a film as they normal projectionist hadn't shown up. This was for the India club. I spent some of the time talking with one of the club officers asking about the film and the players in it as the film was in one of the languages from India.

      We havebn't had much snow the last 10 years. I think I've only had to shovel the sidewalk a couple times all winter.

  52. Re:NY suing escaping companies? by nomadic · · Score: 2

    I am familiar with the works of Ayn Rand. I find them utterly without value.

  53. Not a Loan or Tax Break, Exactly... by John+Hasler · · Score: 2

    New York State will supply the remaining $210
    million. The really unusual thing about the deal
    is that the state isn't offering any tax breaks
    or loans to lure the consortium to its capital. ...just an outright handout of more than half the cost of the facility. Not a "lure"? Ok.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    1. Re:Not a Loan or Tax Break, Exactly... by sbeitzel · · Score: 2

      You're wrong. The state IS offering tax breaks to members of the consortium, just not for this particular deal. The NYTimes story left a whole lot out. Trust me, there is plenty of reciprocity in this deal.

      --
      Oh, go on, check out my job.
  54. Corporate welfare by mlinksva · · Score: 2

    Plain and simple. Doesn't matter that it's money for tech rather than pork bellies. The rest of upstate NY has been in a tailspin for many years. Some of the highest taxes and unemployment rates render the cheap cost of living moot for most businesses and people. Rather than forking over cash to IBM and the like NY needs to cut taxes and bureaucracy, benefitting everyone in the state, not just those powerful enough to wrangle welfare and newcomers. I highly doubt Albany will become a vibrant tech area as Austin has (and Sematech is only a small part of the Austin phenomenon -- it is also the most liberal city for many hundreds of miles, making it a Schelling point for creatives in the South -- Albany OTOH has much tougher competition) and it's sad to see government always chasing last decade's one-trick pony. State and local government should not attempt to turn their region into a mecca for anything in particular. The best meccas become so organically. Who can tell what Albany, or other city will could become known for in decades hence? Nobody. By keeping taxes high and throwing money at a few favored companies politicians are only ensuring future stagnation.

  55. Albany? Yuck! by Soong · · Score: 2

    Albany is the ugliest, grungiest, most depressing mat of suburban sprawl I have ever seen.

    At its worst: SUNY Albany is a whole bunch of same looking grey concrete buildings.

    They'd be better off in Pittsburgh.

    --
    Start Running Better Polls
  56. Re:Albany will NOT become Austin. by afidel · · Score: 2

    Because you want a real education and no one actually pays the full 20k/year unless they are so wealthy they can actually aford it?

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  57. Re:Heh heh heh by Computer! · · Score: 2

    I have a 9-inch cock, but I never installed a window in my pants. I say, let someone else find out the old-fashioned way ;)

    --
    If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
  58. Re:I don't understand by diesel_jackass · · Score: 2

    hehe, you forgot RIT. err... Maybe you just left it out on purpose. That's ok, I don't blame you. I went there, I have a really expensive piece of paper that didn't get me anything. At least I had a good time when I went there... no... wait, that was high school.

    Maybe it was just my own experience with the unorganized IT dept, but somehow I don't think I'm alone.

    --
    THERE IS NO DATA. THERE IS O
  59. Figure 3 hours for Canada by barzok · · Score: 2

    I used to live about 20 minutes north of Albany, and it was a 2-hour run to Plattsburgh. P-burgh to the border is another 15-20 minutes.

    HOWEVER, keep in mind that once you get north of Warrensburgh (I-81 exit 23), you can kick up to 80 as long as you've got a radar detector. And even faster between Lake Placid (exit 30) and just south of P-Burgh (exit 34 or so) - I paced a half-dozen Montreal-bound trucks (empty) at 85 or so last winter. Once it's dark up there, no one's on I-81 and you can just cruise.

  60. Re:NY suing escaping companies? by nomadic · · Score: 2

    Give me a break. What arrogance. I must be aping my professors' opinions, simply because I disagree with you? Rand will come up very rarely in philosophy courses, simply because she was such a mediocre intellect. Hell, one of my old professors was a well-known expert on Rand, and I still don't remember hearing her name in the class.

    I strongly recommend you check out the philosophers who came up with much of the stuff Rand appropriated. Try Adam Smith, or Friedrich Nietzsche. If you want a more literate defender of laissez-faire capitalism, try Robert Nozick. No, they're not as easy to read as the Fountainhead, but believe me they'll be worth the effort.

  61. It's all in the money by sbeitzel · · Score: 2

    Nobody seems to have mentioned the fact that the state of NY has spent a considerable amount of time and money "pre-permitting" semiconductor manufacturing sites, trying to attract semiconductor manufacturing into the area. Of five sites, one was already snapped up by IBM, and the state of NY gave the company a sweetheart deal amounting to tax breaks that totalled 20% of the total project cost (it costs $2-3 BILLION to build a semiconductor manufacturing facility - you do the math). Albany Nanotech has also been in the works for quite a while. They went public with their plans for the 300 mm site last year at SEMICON West in San Francisco, so I guess nobody told the board at Albany Nanotech that the whole thing was a secret. And what they're touting as the benefits of the site are huge (for the companies involved). Imagine, having someone else pay for the privilege of doing YOUR COMPANY'S R&D. What does the state get out of it? They get the $$$ that come with hosting a semiconductor fab (1000-1500 jobs just within the fab itself) that pay well, plus the added jobs that come with vendors and secondary businesses, which raise the taxes in the region. The state of NY stands to make itself a tidy bundle, so they're looking at is as a long-term investment.

    --
    Oh, go on, check out my job.
  62. Re:NY suing escaping companies? by nomadic · · Score: 2

    Actually I have read some. The sheer bad writing prevents me from reading more.

    Rand is about more than capitalism, though not much more. It tends to appeal to younger, more naive readers who think they can identify with the characters; they're utterly convinced of their own superiority, and resentful of the world for not taking them seriously. Fortunately most people grow out of Rand before they hit their 30s.

  63. Schenectady by CaptainSuperBoy · · Score: 2

    Is a piece of garbage shaped like a city. The only thing keeping it going is of course GE. Around Albany and Schenectady is a nice area though. I found it a little dreary, but it's a great place to have a family and a good tech job. There are some top-notch school districts, cost of living is low, and outside of the cities it's pretty safe. Niskayuna is nice.

  64. Re:NY suing escaping companies? by nomadic · · Score: 2

    Liberals do tend to attack the person when they are unable to justify there flawed beliefs.

    Uhhh, and conservatives don't. Go turn on the Fox News Channel, or turn on Rush Limbaugh.

    As I sense that since you are not only attempting to belittle Rand (understandable but sad given that you have never read enough to understand more than what your profs poured into your head) but also me, I will take your leave.

    Alright, obviously you're not particularly literate in English, as I already enunciated quite clearly that my professors never even mentioned Rand, her being a third-rate intellect that most serious scholars don't even bother with.

    Every discussion I have ever gotten into with a bleeding heart ends with the subtle suggestion that if I were only as smart, enlightened, educated, etc. as them that I would surely understand.

    In other words, the exact attitude you're assuming? Fanatics like you truly don't see that your tactics are the same as your enemies'.

    You are pitiful.

    Son, I think you're projecting.