Diamonds - Are They Really Worth the Cost?

hardDiamond asks: "I'm going to get engaged. I know my 4 C's. I know I'm going to get screwed by the jeweller, but that's okay: after all, a diamond engagement ring is a time-honoured tradition... NOT. Having checked out the goods, looked for the flaws, I found the biggest one of all. Diamond engagement rings are the creation of a well orchestrated advertising campaign for most of the last century - according to this article. Would you buy one for the love of your life? I know my girlfriend would love a diamond, but ethically I have my doubts. Diseased-miners, child slave labour, cartel inflated prices... and as if that wasn't enough, diamonds have no resale value. Naddah. Zilch. They'll sell you the shit, but damn it, they're not taking it back at any price. So what have my fellow slashdotters done with regards to engagement rings? What's a good substitute for diamonds? My girlfriend understands my thoughts regarding diamonds, but deep down, I'm sure she would like a diamond. Even a small one." I've never even thought about questioning such a time honored tradition, but now I'm curious. Have any of you looked at the issues surrounding diamonds and found them wanting? What alternatives have you found and were they acceptable? After researching this a bit, one of the key facts to surface is that 2-4.5% of diamond sales will go to finance terrorism or forms of violence. Such diamonds, for want of a better term, have been named "conflict diamonds". For those of you interested in following up on this subject, here are a few more links:

Fatal Transactions
Conflict Diamonds: Sanctions and War
The Campaign to Eliminate Conflict Diamonds
The Kimberly Process, which will attempt to track diamonds to their origin. This is to begin in November.

For those of you who have a subscription to Science News, the cover story, this month, deals with this issue as well.

Comments

Terrorism vs. Cars

[fishy jew]

one of the key facts to surface is that 2-4.5% of diamond sales will go to finance terrorism or forms of violence

What percentage of gas sales do you think finance terrorism? Money goes from our hands to the gas companies to oil companies in the Mid-East to (possibly) terrorist organizations. Probably true about many other products as well...

How can they have no resale value?

[phr2]

If they have no resale value, they you could buy a used diamond very cheaply and get a jeweler to put it in a new setting for you, and that would kill the market for new diamonds. They don't wear out, of course. "Diamonds are forever" and all that.

I agree with most of your other points about the disgusting practices used to produce diamonds and market them.

Re:How can they have no resale value?

[Arandir]

Or the best alternative of all: "This is my Grandmother's engagement ring. My grandparents were married 58 years and were deeply in love every minute of it. I would be honored for you to have this."

Re:How can they have no resale value?

[John Hasler]

Have you ever tried to turn that appraisal into actual money?

Fuck tradition

[nicfit]

My girlfriend told me not to WASTE our money and instead we spent three crazy weeks in Hawaii AND had money in the bank.

God I love her!

Do you two talk to each other?

[A nonymous Coward]

Seriously. If you can't talk to each other about this, then you are fools to even consider marriage. If you would rather get /. opinions on this than talk it over with the gf, then you aren't ready.

Re:alternatives?

[Gudlyf]

Yes, you do need to understand that this is a gift for her, not you. The question is, what does she want? Does she agree with your concerns, or are you going to just pick an alternative and hope for the best?

I may have plenty of ethical issues against the fine leather used in the new shoes my wife wants for her birthday, but it doesn't mean I'll try buying her a pair of canvas sneakers and hope she doesn't notice.

The Gods Must Be Crazy

[Anonymous Coward]

Tradition? Gimme a friggin break. The US is too young to have traditions, kerr-rrrist. Women and diamond rings remind me of that movie, "The Gods Must be Crazy", where the natives find an empty Coke bottle and worship it as some kind of..umm...err...worshipped item. Seriously, women are like little monkeys when they see rings, but y'know, all it is, is a friggin rock attached to some shiny metal. "Oohh, look at shi-nee met-tal...perty, ain't it". Geez. Materialistic women need to get with reality and stop the pretentious b.s. If you love someone, it'll be in yer heart, not on a f@!*ckin finger. Leave the symbols to the symbol-minded (as a Carlinist I couldn't resist that one!). If you can't afford her, she's not worth it.

My wife is Japanese, and we didn't have to go through ANY of this lame b.s. We got married in Japan without a stadium-sized crowd and did a tea ceremony. There were no "trinkets" exchanged, only love expressed through ACTION. Now I'm all for diamond rings as a gift, or to show appreciation, but if a woman requires a ring for engagement - if it takes a manmade little rock and metal craft to make her smile, then her heart is in the wrong place.

Re:apparently, an ugly rock == proof of love.

[Skyshadow]

apparently, an ugly rock == proof of love.

You've never had a girlfriend, have you?

Look, women think differently than men on some issues, but you disregard that point of view only at your great peril. So fucking what if sending flowers is stupid? If it makes your girl feel loved, well, mission accomplished.

Don't be a goon.

Wrong Question

[philipsblows]

Much like the megahertz myth, the need for a diamond engagement ring has been cultivated through careful marketing and peer pressure.

But.

The cost of NOT getting this diamond ring may be the relationship itself. It may not occur right away (she might still accept your proposal) but this will be a major disappointment to a woman who has had an engagement ring (or a rock as my ex-girlfriend called it), and it just might set the tone for the rest of your time together.

As has been pointed out elsehwhere in this very thread, gasoline, diamonds, honey, opium, and a whole bunch of other products all contribute to terrorism or cruel treatment of our fellow humans or various other badnesses in the world.

In the end, though, it will be infinitely easier to get a fuel-efficient car and switch away from various other products than it will be to alter the mindset of the woman (and ALL of her friends) who considers not where it came from or how it got there, but merely that it is on her finger.

So, if you want to get married and start of on the right foot with her, you should of course shop for the best value you can find in your budget and so on, but yes, the diamond is worth it.

[save your energy... cede her victory on this one, fight the good fight when she wants to know why you are "wasting" so much money on a cable modem/DSL, fast graphics cards, etc.]

Re:Wrong Question

[Artificer]

The cost of NOT getting this diamond ring may be the relationship itself.

If someone is SO materialistic so as to BREAK OFF a relationship that is leading to marriage just because they don't get a diamond ring, then there's a decent chance that they're probably not worth the relationship in the first place.

I happen to really believe in commitment, and someone who would break off a relationship that is that serious for a reason such as this, just doesn't seem like they are committed to the relationship themselves.

Yes - you need to get one.

[Eagle7]

YES!! Unless she told you no, then you ought to get one for her. Perhaps you can find an heirlom diamond in your family that you would be able to use, thus saving on cost and ethical issues.

But basically, unless you pass the following test, I suspect that deep down you are looking for an excuse to be cheap:

• Do you only buy ethically OK clothing, and be very careful to make sure of it?
• Do you make sure that your coffee is grown under ethical conditions?
• Do you ensure that all your computer products and other electronics haven't been made for cheap in Mexico, thereby polluting the environment there even worse?
• Do you ensure that all your tech products are disposed of properly, and not polluting some third world country?
• Do you avoid buying things "Made in China" or elsewhere where you cannot be sure of the conditions/ages of the workers?

Unless you do all of those things, I would posit that you are already contributing to unethical behavior with your participation in commerce. If you do do all those things, and your g/f isn't open to the no diamond idea although she will jump through those hoops, then she is being hypocritical.

I say buy her the diamond and have a wonderful life together. Coming from a happily engaged man (who both bought and used inheritted diamonds)

Great idea

[drew_kime]

An engagement is a once-in-a-lifetime event; save your consumer ethics for more trivial occasions (anniversaries, Christmas, etc).

Absolutely. Be proud of those ethics so long as they don't really interfere with anything you care about.

I Got my wife a Tree

[Zapdos]

It is planted in one of our city parks, is professionally cared for, and has a sign that declares My Love to Her. A ring would have been cheaper. The tree cost $6000.00 which would have bought a very nice rock.
Our wedding was under the tree. We are planning to buy a bench to place under the tree as soon as the city allows.

Re:apparently, an ugly rock == proof of love.

[susano_otter]

That's not a problem with flowers, that's a problem with bullshit fake "holidays".

Try this: buy some roses for her on any other day of the year. Not only will they be easier and cheaper to get, but I guarantee you she will be ten times happier with a spontaneous sign of affection. All you're really saying on Feb. 14 is "I got you these flowers because my television told me to." Any other day of the year, the message is "I was driving home from work when it hit me how much I love you, so I stopped off at the store and bought you some flowers."

Re:alternatives?

[Moofie]

I'd take exactly the opposite tack. If either party in the relationship is REALLY that worried about what the Joneses think, to the point that they'll be psychologically scarred by not having what everybody else has, I'd say the relationship is doomed from the get-go. A lifetime commitment to honor and cherish another human being is infinitely more precious than a hunk of clear carbon.

Talk it over with your intended. Express your feelings. Come to a consensus. Then, spit in the eye of anybody who disparages your (collective) choice.

One word: liquidity

[IntelliTubbie]

If they have no resale value, they you could buy a used diamond very cheaply and get a jeweler to put it in a new setting for you, and that would kill the market for new diamonds. They don't wear out, of course. "Diamonds are forever" and all that.

The used diamond market isn't like the used car market, where the resale value drops as soon as you drive your shiny new Mustang off the lot. That is, it's not that market prices are low -- it's that there is no market. Because De Beers has created the impression that diamonds are priceless (if not in monetary value, then in sentimental value), almost no one sells their used diamonds. And because no one sells them, no one expects to buy them either. This has completely eliminated the secondary market for diamonds -- outside of shady outfits like pawn shops, which can hardly be considered bastions of "fair market value".

The total lack of liquidity in the used diamond market means that De Beers can continue to have complete control over prices. Why is stifling liquidity just as important as stifling competition? Look at what happened to hardware companies like Cisco when the Internet bubble burst. As if it weren't bad enough that Cisco lost customers, they found that prospective customers were buying cheap, lightly used hardware off the dot-bombs at fire sale prices instead of from Cisco. This is even more important for De Beers, since a diamond has a considerably longer usable life than a router. The moral of the story: if you want to sell your product to everyone at ridiculous prices, without screwing yourself in the future by saturating the market with resalable goods, then do exactly what De Beers has done.

Cheers,
IT

Re:The Answer

[LintMan]

I agree. For a lot of women, they've wanted and dreamed of a nice engagement ring since they were kids. Getting that diamond ring is a sort of validation for some women.

Is this misplaced desire, partly formed by marketing hype and peer pressure? Yes. But so is my lust for say, a new BMW 5-series, or even the latest 2.6 GHz Pentium.

I spent a bunch on my wife's rock, which felt to me like 'wasted' money, but I have to say it's made her happy. Before you say she's all about the money though... she really isn't very materialistic at all, but getting that nice diamond really meant something to her. When the time came to spend money of other things, such as our wedding plans, or even when I ask her what she wants for a birthday gift, she is quite economical.

Beyond that, though, I also guess that over the course of our marriage, I'll probably spend ten times more on computer upgrades and other "toys" for myself (that she could care less about) as I will on jewelry for her (that I could care less about), so I guess I can't really complain! Probably it'd be the same for many other people here...I think that's something most of the techno-geeks here should keep in mind.

Advice from a /. chick!

[TrinSF]

Yes, I'm one of those few mythic creatures, a ./ poster with no Y chromosome. Though I'm not that chick-identified, here's some advice from the girl point of view:

1. Even the most progressive feminist can sometimes be profoundly cliche'd when thinking about marriage. Our society teaches and reinforces strong ideas and imagery around weddings and marriage from a very early age -- heterosexual women are steeped in cultural tradition around marriage. It's hard to fight decades of "this is every girl's dream".

2. If she wants a diamond, get her a diamond. Don't make her spend the next 50 years of her life looking down at her hand and thinking, "Instead of a diamond ring, I got a symbol of his political and social stance."

3. If you don't want to support new diamond sales, consider estate jewelry. For a reasonable price, you can buy a ring that has a sense of history to it, that is a beautiful thing, and is less charged with the modern baggage. For that matter, an estate jewelry specialist can also help you make the choice. Talk to a pro! Explain you want something beautiful and unique, that you want to spend X dollars, etc.

4. If you decide not to go with the diamond, give your bride-to-be *positive* language around your choice. Don't get her a different kind of ring because you don't like the social ramifications of diamond mining -- get her a different kind of ring because you don't feel a run-of-the mill diamond ring accurately reflects the special and unique qualities in her and in your relationship.

5. Don't use not getting a diamond as an excuse to skimp on the cost. Buying a 300.00 ring instead of a 3000.00 ring 'because diamonds are tainted with the blood of workers' says you were looking for an excuse to be cheap. It's not about the money, but it's not just the thought that counts, either.

6. Size *does* matter, but it cuts both ways. Dicks *and* diamonds can both be tooooo big.

Re:Advice from a /. chick!

[deblau]

I felt I had to reply. Apologies in advance, because I'm a hardass.

1. Even the most progressive feminist can sometimes be profoundly cliche'd when thinking about marriage. Our society teaches and reinforces strong ideas and imagery around weddings and marriage from a very early age -- heterosexual women are steeped in cultural tradition around marriage. It's hard to fight decades of "this is every girl's dream".

Yes, yes it is hard, but that doesn't mean the fight isn't worth making. I for one am sorry that the "progressive feminists" as you call them are still so materialistic. I would be much more happy if they would preach mutual love and respect, regardless of how big his wallet or his dick are. And I do think it's a shame society is so stereotyped. Cliches and stereotypes are easy excuses for not observing and thinking for yourself. (Yes, I know stereotypes have psychological protective value, but we're talking about marriage here, a situation in which we've gone way beyond casual contact.)

2. If she wants a diamond, get her a diamond. Don't make her spend the next 50 years of her life looking down at her hand and thinking, "Instead of a diamond ring, I got a symbol of his political and social stance."

I want a Lexus sport coupe. Get me one. Or 50 years from now, I'll be thinking, "all I got was a lousy Geo Metro".

Do I deserve a car, or ring, or anything else because we're getting married? Do I really deserve anything more than love, respect, and honesty? Have I somehow earned something more? What have I paid for it, what have I put into the relationship that demands more than what I'm already getting? I think the real question to be asking here is, "Why do I need this ring? What does it mean?" Think about that, and let me know what your answer is. (BTW, I don't consider spending money for its own sake a worthwhile reason. I consider it flamboyant, vain, and ultimately destructive.)

And frankly, if the love of my life got me a present based on her political stance, then considering the fact that I was planning on marrying this woman, and that I must already be happy with her views, I would be deeply honored.

3. If you don't want to support new diamond sales, consider estate jewelry. For a reasonable price, you can buy a ring that has a sense of history to it, that is a beautiful thing, and is less charged with the modern baggage. For that matter, an estate jewelry specialist can also help you make the choice. Talk to a pro! Explain you want something beautiful and unique, that you want to spend X dollars, etc.

If you decide to go down this road, then I applaud the creativity of this suggestion.

4. If you decide not to go with the diamond, give your bride-to-be *positive* language around your choice. Don't get her a different kind of ring because you don't like the social ramifications of diamond mining -- get her a different kind of ring because you don't feel a run-of-the mill diamond ring accurately reflects the special and unique qualities in her and in your relationship.

Positive language is important. But please don't tell me how to feel, or what I may like or dislike, or by what reasons I am allowed to act. No one has that right.

5. Don't use not getting a diamond as an excuse to skimp on the cost. Buying a 300.00 ring instead of a 3000.00 ring 'because diamonds are tainted with the blood of workers' says you were looking for an excuse to be cheap. It's not about the money, but it's not just the thought that counts, either.

When I buy something, I trade my money, the exchange for the fruits of my labor, for the fruits of someone else's. The amount I'm willing to pay depends on how much value I think I'm getting from the transaction. What value am I getting from this purchase?

Furthermore, I don't put a price-tag on emotions, since they are no one's to buy or sell. My love for any woman isn't worth $300, $3000, or $3,000,000. It's priceless, because it's mine, and mine alone. And if it's not the thought that counts, is it the money? Is it the prestige? If I spent the aforementioned $3,000,000 on a diamond ring, would the woman I gave it to love me any more than if I spent $300? If so, she's no one I'd want to marry.

6. Size *does* matter, but it cuts both ways. Dicks *and* diamonds can both be tooooo big.

Agreed, on both counts.

Re:alternatives?

[squaretorus]

this is a gift for her, not you

JESUS! It never fails to amaze me how little geek guys know about women!

Every single woman I've ever been out with went week at the knees at the sight of me refusing to eat at a restaurant because of poor practice, avoiding a brand for poor ethics, or cycling to work to live 'carbon neutral'.

If you care about this stuff - and your women doesn't I dont care how nice her tits are or how often she gets them out for you - DUMP HER. She'd sure as hell get rid of you if the tables were turned, and theres another one out there with BETTER tits who shares your ethics, and cooks a better omlette - you just have to find her.

If you can shelve your ethics for sex - they weren't your ethics in the first place.