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Three Major Linux Distributions Certified LSB Compliant
KevinDumpsCore writes "RedHat, Mandrake, and SuSE are now certified LSB compliant!" Here's the announcement on the Free Standards Group's site. The Linux Standards Base (check out these related Slashdot posts) has been working for years to perhaps tame the what-lives-where cross-distro craziness. (Of course, distro makers are under no obligation to comply with the LSB's choices.)
KAZAA Fuck R I A A - Network sold behind their backs - Stupid fucking cunts
Slashdot, Where Editors come to SUCK © ® (TM)
HAIKUS
Haiku: to the Slashfags. Fuck slash editors - The cumlicking fags they are - I shit upon them
TACO pondering GOATSE: I stare at the goat - His huge gaping ass so wide - And I want to eat
Haiku: The ancient haiku: - Flame Taco and CowboyNeal - With lame poetry.
CowboyNeal A mountain of fat, - butt cheeks jiggling like Jello. - What an odd poll choice!
CmdrTaco Watching Pokemon - With cum stuck on his goatee. - Newbie loser scum.
Stinky Kathleen Fent Cockeater Taco, - Proposing to Fent online, - I fingered her too.
Rob Malda and Kathleen Fent Chubby breasts, fat ass - Distract us from Rob's boylust. - But they both suck cock!
Taco Tuesday: Too much mexican. - Angry poo, firey hot. - Where's my antacid?
CHOAD licking Taco: Malda in the dark - Swallowing chode for profit - He rips his anus
Fuck KATZ Katz is a Jew - michael is a Mormon - Or is it Timothy?
Martini Fuck off That is fucking good. - I nearly spilt martini - On my nice trousers.
Slap my Ham, rub it off, fuck Spank fast wank it hard - Jerk that dick to Pokemon - Party at Taco's
GOAT I just came again - looking at the goat-see man - more kleenex required
Cock BIRD The Dead Penis Bird - Nailed to the member always - Never falling off
BSD Stare into the night - Sun is setting on your sys - BSD is dead
Michael Michael User Simms - Sifting through all our comments - Censoring bastard
Klerk Trolltalk hard to read - Information desires - Wideness for us all
Cobalt Really tired now - Off to masturbate to sleep - See you at the day
Humorless Moderator Crack smoke wafts through air - Humorless moderator - Why do you hate me?
Taco, I want you to fuck me in the ass please. I am dying to be anally accosted. I want to be ravaged like hog. I want you to dress like a farmer and make me oink like a pig. I want an ass reaming like no other. Taco, I haven't had this kind of lust for you since the crazy college days. We used to butt fuck each other in the stalls. You always told me not to flush and preferred using my feces as apposed to real lubricant. I remember your chocolaty member, your manhood, draped in my feces. Man, Robbie, I remember. I was day dreaming, escaping into a nether world where we used to fornicate, and live in fornicatory bliss. You used to like to keep your tubes socks on to enhance they gay look. We were so flitty and light on out feet. I am so very confused these days. I have difficulty conceptualizing the time that was then in contrast to now. I mean, first you were a raging homosexual, now you deprecate me in favor of this "woman." I know that bitch is a transvestite. You are closeting your homosexuality and denying your roots in my ass!
Don't be fooled! This man knows how to suck a dick. He may nibble, and bite, and pretend to be sheepish at first, but deep down this cock loving acolyte of shaft licks cock like a bar maid.
I am destabilizing. The world is going dark to me. I have scintillating threads of motley thoughts, my ability to control my self evanesces away! I have only an adamantine desire to see your balloon knot once again, and to have you ravage mine! I see a world of GOATS. A goat fucking extravaganza. I invoke the ANUS of DOOM! I hate Taco.
SON of the GOAT, HUGE ASS WIDENER, This is a massive, massive ass attack from the Minister of Goat, Ayatollah man-meat.
Dilated Meat Pie. Most suppressed people really like seeing this. It gives them new masturbatory fodder.
Two cucumbers, better than one. This is to show that the giver is really smaller than what is needed to fill GOATSE man. He east Cheerioatse brand O's
A Disney product right where it belongs. Up a goat's ass. Death to Mike Eisner, the butt buddy of Commander Tak0.
Raw and dilated man-pussy. Put back the trouser snake, Tako. You dick is way too small for this man's ass.
A Prolapsed rectum is sure to whet even the most jaded flaming fuck's appetite. Tak0, your penis is regrettably way too small, even for your "Fiancée's" unfettered anus. She doesn't want to dirty her ass with the likes of your pathetic member.
GOAT KORAN
Classic HIT ME IN THE SHITTER BABY, UNGH HUH
Classic Oh yeah, in the shitter some more, in the shitter.
Classic More ass stretching goodness.
Female Goater My pussy is too small for this APPLE.
Goatse Grandpas - GRANPA GOAT S3X0R5
Son of a Goat - Holy fucking son of a goat. Kind of looks like Tako from behind, but to be sure I'd have to ask CowGryl Kneel
1 Oh, pardon me sir, would you happen to have any ANAL LUBE?
2 UNGH FART, pssssbt, ungh, tweeep, squeaaaaaak ungh
3 PFFFFFFFFFFT AHH pffft
4 FOOOOOOOOOOOOF blud dribble dribble
Prime Number Shitting Goatse Man See The Prime numbers flow like the river SHIT
Goatse Returns! Fuck yeah, the goat man is a coming back to Trollaxor
I summon the powers of HUGE GAPING ASS!
Yes, Linux truly is the Least Significant Bit of computing today.
What's Debian's status in this matter?
... no money, no honey.
it's a shame they didn't work this out before the linux desktop died
Cope with it.
->-
Let's knock it up a notch. BAM!
Ok, GREAT now merge Gnome and KDE. I hate it when I cannot easily copy from application to another.
Competition is great, but only to a certain level.
The LSB ought to have that merger as a long time goal. Get the Gnome/KDE guys together more, and eventually... I know they have had discussions, but, where are the actual results.
Let, Gnome 3.0 and KDE 4.0 be the same!!!
a nice open standard like LSB, imagine the improvement in install docs, cross distro rpms...this is a good thing.
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
Did they just finish evaluating the latest stable distros from each company or are they looking at the betas that just developed into FSB compliance?
If they plan to use rpm then i guess i'll make sure my distribution isn't LSB compliant.
If they wanted to choose the most popular packaging system they should've gone with installshield and force distros to have binary compatibility with windows apps.
Doh, the LSB software installation "standard" is RPMs. Oh, the humanity!
Where is everybody? Slashdot has been really boring for the last few days. Boring news, or have people left for other news portals?
It's too bad that the LSB people havn't yet taken on packaging issues. They've effectively chickened out by just recommending RPM. The best features of RPM, DEB and the BSD ports system should be reflected in a new packaging format for people to work towards using. Not only should this format be recommended by the LSB, but the LSB should define policies for the use of the format - package name and version formats, dependencies and package alias names, source package handling, non-official packages, etc. This really is necessary to get distribution of commercial software on Linux; testing for and supporting distribution differences is just too expensive for most companies. This is not to say that everyone supporting RPM won't help, but rather that policies are needed to really make it work, and that we may as well get a more optimal package management system happening :)
I don't see seven layers of API. That's just FUD you are spouting from either the Windows or Berlin camp.
A typical GNOME app makes calls into the GNOME libraries, which are linked at the hip to GTK. GTK directly talks the lowest wirelevel X protocol which gets stuff on the framebuffer.
A KDE app talks to the KDE libraries which are built on Qt. Qt talks Xlib (QT experts feel free to call me an idiot and correct me) which, like GTK, talks directly to the X server.
And if you want to argue that X imposes too much overhead, that is why we have things like the shared memory extension and Xrender.
But NO, window managers must remain ordinary applications, otherwise X turns into something brain damaged like Windows or a Mac.
Democrat delenda est
I believe that the user's free choice is the best standard-making-body it does not matter if you got a certificate or not if your distribution is crap.
I am curious in particular about Red Hat's distro. I am sure that 8.0 will be LSB compliant but does anyone know about 7.3?
So most of the following is just packing peanuts to prevent the binaries from breaking during shipping?
/usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.1 (0x40026000) /usr/lib/libfreetype.so.6 (0x4004f000) /usr/X11R6/lib/libXrender.so.1 (0x4009a000) /usr/X11R6/lib/libXaw.so.7 (0x4009f000) /usr/X11R6/lib/libXmu.so.6 (0x400f1000) /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 (0x40105000) /usr/X11R6/lib/libSM.so.6 (0x4014f000) /usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.so.6 (0x40158000) /usr/X11R6/lib/libXpm.so.4 (0x4016e000) /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6 (0x4017c000) /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x40189000) /lib/libncurses.so.5 (0x40263000) /lib/libc.so.6 (0x402a1000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x40000000)
$ ldd `which xterm`
libXft.so.1 =>
libfreetype.so.6 =>
libXrender.so.1 =>
libXaw.so.7 =>
libXmu.so.6 =>
libXt.so.6 =>
libSM.so.6 =>
libICE.so.6 =>
libXpm.so.4 =>
libXext.so.6 =>
libX11.so.6 =>
libncurses.so.5 =>
libc.so.6 =>
Forgive my ignorance, but how does the LSB relate to the Filesystem Hierachy Standard. Is it a replacement?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Quoth the heathen:
/System/Library/CoreServices/WindowServer /System/Library/CoreServices/coreservicesd /System/Library/CoreServices/SecurityServer /System/Library/CoreServices/loginwindow.app/login window console /System/Library/CoreServices/pbs /System/Library/CoreServices/Finder.app/Contents/M acOS/Finder -psn_0_262145 /System/Library/CoreServices/Dock.app/Contents/Mac OS/Dock -psn_0_393217 /System/Library/CoreServices/SystemUIServer.app/Co ntents/MacOS/SystemUIServer -psn_0_655361
> But NO, window managers must remain ordinary
> applications, otherwise X turns into something
> brain damaged like Windows or a Mac.
Brain damaged? Who's spouting FUD now? Mac's have Window Managers too:
[localhost:~] david% ps axwww | grep Core
73 ?? Ss 3:15.50
228 ?? Ss 0:00.29
272 ?? Ss 0:00.10
286 ?? Ss 0:00.71
289 ?? Ss 0:03.53
303 ?? S 0:05.07
304 ?? S 0:01.21
306 ?? S 0:08.16
Mac OS X is less brain damaged than you think.
-David
There. Now go play some cool javascript games!
Debian 3.0 did pretty well compared to SuSE.
Link shamelessly stolen from this post.
I'm all for a standard here, but MDK? How is MDK compliant with something like this:
~/.kde/share/applnk-mdk-simplified/.hidden
for a menu item location. Are they all using the MDK extension now? Unlikley. Is MDK changing that? Unlikley since the 8.2 release was tagged as "Standards Compliant" somehow.
Don't get me wrong I like MDK, I'm on a 8.2 (heavily upgraded) box typing this, but "Standards Compliant"? No way.
I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
> debian is most widely used
Debian is very far from being "most widely used".
> howcome a nonprofit 'standards' body can ignore a standard like the deb packaging standard?
which features make deb better than rpm ?
please be as specific as possible.
> apt is so good that it is getting ported everywhere...
your so much loved apt can be used with both rpms and debs
Not that i believe there is actually such a thing as a typical debian user but one might do this not for the sake of upgrading but rather for apt-get security updates.
obviously for any large scale installation you would want not want to do automated installation except on a test machine and only later update the rest of your network.
If GNOME has a bug that causes your computer not to function. At least you can use KDE. KDE has a weird glitch on my graphics card that GNOME does not have. If the two were the same and if they both had the glitch, I'd be using windoze right now.
These libraries are not "layered" on top of each other. The different libraries provide different functionality. For example, ncurses handles terminal IO. libXaw provides widgets, ICE provides authentication services. You are confusing "modularity" with "bloat"
But it is interesting to note that the three standards all have soimething in common ...
1. Built on Red Hat
2. Commercially sold and focused distros (sure you can download them all but Suse is some 7gb of packages with no ISO and to purchase personal in AU costs $175...) they are the 3 distros which appear most focused on packaged box products
3. ALl 3 like to see themselves as leaders in the open source movement
This comes to mind after the self annoucement on Mandrakes site that they were on of the standard distibutions of linux.... and they are part of the standards groups as well...
Come on - the fact is that the three distros are built on one base - Red Hat. They use the same packages in most case and in my mind are pretty much the same thing.
If LSB wants to be a serious thing instead of a back slapping software tick then they need a diverse Standard - the best GNU Linux at the moment for development and use from all i have tried is Debian yet its not a standard... What about Slackware ?...
In short doing a bit of investigating of the members of the LSB groups and the supposed standard bearers may make some things clear... i did - and the terms of the standards make it clear that rather than the 3 mentioned distibutions being the best the fact that they were the 3 who submitted and that they all use the one base and RPM seems to indicate simply that Red Hat is an industry standard..something we all knew anyway.
I refuse to argue with Anonymous Cowards - if you want a discussion get an account....
so, how does this relate to base development libraries? it's a major PITA to d/l a cool project to see how the source works, only to have ./configure bomb out 7/8ths of the way through.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
Interesting thread RE comparisons between RPM, apt, ports etc which I have some familiarity with but not enough to argue with the beards. However what I would like to see is some work on how an admin can centralise package distribution to internal users.
...
From personal experience, most of these package managers are focused on the end user making the decision to instigate an upgrade, however that is achieved. The execution of the upgrade is also within the hands of the end-user. However consider the scenario where you have a number of open source desktops and you have responsibility for ensuring that your users (a) have access to the applications they need (which will vary from user to user), (b) incorporate upgrades on a mandatory basis based upon criteria that you specify (e.g. security patches, other app patches you decide are required), (c) these applications are available to users wherever they log in, (d) they integrate well with whatever window manager you choose to use.
Now, I know this is easy to say and represents a lot of work, especially the WM integration (exactly how many WMs are there out there?) but consider from a corporate perspective - it's not going to look to good when you start advocating the current methodologies for obtaining packaged software for desktops when compared with MS Group Policy package distribution, Novell ZENworks, IBM Tivoli
If you're going to review the current approaches to package distribution, and hopefully build an open standard at some point to fit in with LSB, then at least keep the door open for a centralised software distribution mechanisms.
Aegilops
Commercial linux systems have lower package management standards compared to Debian, maybe because they want to be more cutting edge (ie Mandrake), and maybe because they have fewer official package maintainers or different corporate priorities.
It's the people, not the package management software that makes the big difference.
this will be helpful for technical support...
Handling of incompatible versions of the same software is done ad hoc, without any strictly established and well designed rules. Either the old or the new version gets a number appended to the package name (glib10, kde2, gcc3).
What gets my goat is the location and use of config files. It's very clear on Slack what files handle what and the configs can be handled on the file level. On RedHat or Mandrake, this is inconsistent. Example. If you DON'T boot into X on Mandrake, tell me how to switch the default Window Manager. In slack it's a matter of changing a symbolic link. There are other examples.
I don't want to start a distro holy war (and there is always one brewing just under the surface), but these differences are not good. A better commercial example is Mandrake vs SuSE. Both have pretty widespread use in the commercial arena, I've used both on commercial projects, but again, the config loacation and use is not consistent.
I don't know if ALL of these things have been solved by the LSB, but if not, then there is a failing which needs to be resolved...
need beer
Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
LSB isnt helping much when there are files all over the place, programs being renamed each revision and tools being hacked up to only work with GUI.
LSB is a start and it is crazy that GNU/Debian will not be included in this list when it has been following its own policies and standards for a long time. LSB is for RPM Distros. RPM means RedHat Packaging Manager.
GNU/Debian/Linux is the best choice in Distributions for people who like contributing to a Portable Operating System *gee look at those words and think what anagram is made up from the words - thats right POSIX*. =)
Pixels keep you awake!
If suggesting "icon support", "font support", or "higher-level networking" should be brought into X wasn't a tipoff that this was a troll, the line "12% to 37% faster" clinches it.
Yes it is a seperate process on OSX, but don't expect replacements anytime soon if Apple has any say in it.
On the whole, OSX does kinda toss old views of the Mac into the trash. I have been playing around with some iMacs running OSX recently and it's almost but not quite familiar territory. Neither fish nor foul if you take my meaning. But gimme three buttons on a TiBook and I'm there when my Thinkpad's warranty runs out.
Democrat delenda est
(rant concluded)
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Microsoft , to it's credit, seemed to make a concious effort to make sure it's API's remined consistently backwards over time. DLL's from microsoft, (notable exceptions.. Fucking wang/kodak imaging library, grrrr) can be updated without too high likelyhood of slaying previous versions of software.
Unfortunately the haphazzard linux update cycle has tended to mean that one needs the correct libraries for each expected invokation (eg ver 6.7 AND 6.8 rather than just 6.8).
Think KDE here.
That's where the magic of debians apt stuff kicks in. The program really does not much except maintain a well pruned dependancy tree and make sure that libs are there (and autogets them if necesarrily), the magic is that Debian lords with an iron fist over packagers and make sure that package descriptions list EXACTLY what is needed. I have no doubt that apt & RPM are a groovy enough combo, but one still depends on a central body to enforce strict rules to enforce compliance.
With out that, dependancy-fucking your box hasn't gone away, it's just become automatic.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
urpmi will only deal with stuff in its database ONLINE, you can't add a new package to its database which isn't available online (very easily). In addition, eventually, the package list online changes (when Mandrake goes to the next version), and all of your old rpm installs don't work as libraries with anything new you install, and there's nothing you can do about it but a MAJOR upgrade. Also, currently, it doesn't really do versioning well, that is, you cannot have multiple versions of the same software unless you specify that its something completely different, and that the files go in a different spot on the system, just as rpm doesn't. Also, its not easy to create rpm files; it often takes some work.
urpmi does only one thing better: it keeps a record of a website which lists packages. The problem is not the lack of a wrapper, its the lack of features built into the whole RPM model.
Not all distros have a package management system with all of those features, and I'm not sure all of the ones that do. I only know that Mandrake, my old distro, did not have them, and that Gentoo, my new distro, does.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
"Since the big need for the LSB is for commercial software packagers.... see the problem?"
YES, i do see a problem.
NON-commercial software packages make up 99% of all linux software.
I think XFree needs to die, but since KDE is a serious memory hog, you'll be defeating the purpose. What's needed is a local only GUI with a light but extremely flexible window manager like TWM. Hell, I'll run TWM before I install KDE again.
I've been running Red Hat for two years now. Where's the "dependency hell" everybody talks about? I've gone from 7.0 to 7.3, doing each upgrade in turn, installed all sorts of stuff in between upgrades, never had any problems. So I have some issues with what you call a "typical" install on Linux...
Then you've just given a reason why window managers in X should stay.
What's wrong with Haskell and is it related here?
I assume we talk about the same language
Less is more !
Our company seriously considers Gentoo as it helps to build a Linux distro (or two) customized for specific corporate needs. Our research shows that with RPM or DEB we'd spend more resources on creating and supporting own distros.
Less is more !
If LSB wants to be a serious thing instead of a back slapping software tick then they need a diverse Standard - the best GNU Linux at the moment for development and use from all i have tried is Debian yet its not a standard... What about Slackware ?...
I beg your pardon!? A diverse standard!? Are you smoking the really good stuff!?
A standard is supposed to be something that remains...well gosh STANDARD! - not something which changes every couple of months!
They have an article about this which mentions that the three certified versions are Red Hat 7.3, SuSE 8.0 Professional, and Mandrake ProSuite 8.2.