I totally disagree that it should look like Windows!
Making distributions that look and feel like Windows not only shows a lack or originality but only stands to confuse and frustrate "new" windows users in the end when something does not execute as they would expect them too only because they were lead to believe that thier experience would be "like windows"
I recently posted a rant about this on my personal website here:
Why? I haven't seen any real arguments for this other than, it's what other platforms do so it must be a good idea
Because...it's all about third party applications (especially commercial/proprietary ones)!
Like it or not, for Linux to become mainstream it will have to be able to run off-the-shelf commercial software at some point.
Linux right now is a headache for companies because it is always a moving target (not to mention having to try to support every damn *popular* distro out there or the community is all up in arms because they choose only to support Red Hat).
Distributions releasing every 6 months dosn't give them nearly enough time to make sure their apps work properly on the new platform, ship, market, support..etc! by that time the distributions have made another release only including the latest and greates libs and software (even if they are the most stable or not) and usually that means something (even the smallest thing) will need to be fixed to ensure a QUALITY program.
Imagine this...you are avg. joe end-user and are running linux. You go out and buy some fairly expensive graphics application for $200 because you need it for work, no other app even comes close to the features, ease of use, and support of this application. 5 months later your distro of choice releases a new much improved product!
but wait, now your graphics application dosn't work exactly right (or fails to start at all).
Now i know all you geeks out there in/. land are going to say then don't run commercial software, or don't upgrade your OS nobody is forcing you too...or some other such nonsense.
backwords compatablity is a big deal, and like it or not windows and macos deal with it a LOT better than any Linux distro.
but at what cost? making linux look like a cheap knock-off in the eyes of many outside geekdom
diminishing the the "goodwill" and reputation of linux...and for what? a company that acts in many ways like another Microsoft (over-hype, lies, deception)
and what does causing pain for Microsoft actually do for Linux (especially in this case)?
I wouldn't use something called Lindows even if
it *were* the best Linux distro!
in my opinion, a name change would do them good.
right now their name makes them sound like a crappy windows knock-off...
my comparison has always been this..
lindows makes Linux sound like PayLess Shoes...
why would you want PayLess shoes when everyone else (95%) are wearing Nikes?
Making Linux look a cheap knock-off isnt' good for the community in my opinion
Re:counterproductive ah what is LSB?
on
Ark Linux
·
· Score: 1
Yes, it's a start be not nearly enough...
There is still too much of a difference between distributions.
besides he said "...pooled their resources and made one, standard linux desktop running on one, standard gui interface."
This is what UnitedLinux is trying to do...create a standard base to build upon, which is a brilliant idea.
The LSB has nothing to do with pooling the resources of different companies for a common good...It just *tries* to set some standards on how a Linux system should be set up.
The sad part about it is that if Linux itself were one company, one *primary* interface, one packaging system, etc...it would have a much better chance of beating microsoft.
Instead we have to rely on uncomplete standards that nobody *really* follows anyway.
I again would like to state that the concept of UnitedLinux is brilliant, think how awesome it would be if ALL linux companies/distributions pooled their resources together for reserach and development, creating a STANDARD base to build on, and certifying software and hardware to work with it!...Vendors wouldn't have to decide what distro to package for, all RPMS (or whatever standard package was used) would be "foobar.UL.rpm" and it would work on ALL distributions without change. You wouldn't have to worry about creating a package for every-god-damn-distro-on-earth...or making sure your hardware works with every one of them...it would just work.
Gimp, from what I have heard, will have CYMK capabilities in the 2.0 release along with a ton of other improvements...but who know's when this will actually get released.
and check out Scribus"
"is a simple desktop publishing program similar to QuarkXPress, Adobe PageMaker or Adobe InDesign"
it's still fairly young in development but is pretty nice.
This isn't true, there will always be paid programming positions.
Even in a completely OSS world the scenerio would work out something like this...
Some Company uses someApp but they need additional functionality, they would hire programmers to do the work -or- use in house programmers to do it.
on top of that there is always going to be company specific in house software, which even if open sourced will be maintained in-house becasue likely it will have little use to the general public or even it's competitors.
OSS isn't the death of the software industry...it's just another way of looking at it.
Look at some of what's going on now...IBM, HP, SGI, Red Hat (and most of the other distro's) have paid programmers working on Linux or other OSS software.
And why does OSS mean fewer people getting paid for IT work? Last I checked runing a network and supporting users wasn't dependent on propriety software? does this mean if all software is OSS networks automatically just work and users all of the sudden no longer need help?
marketers are definetly out of a job! we all know OSS software sells itself!
OpenBeos is creating a new BeOS from scratch that will be binary compatible with the original BeOS (at first anyway and plan on adding new features that will probably break this later).
So far they are coming along at a good pace. They have already created beta's for OpenBFS, Open Media Kits, and their Print Server.
Here is a project I found a little while ago that is trying to create a Linux distro (actually just a graphical interface) for home theater multimedia devices to be displayed on the TV.
Here is a MacOS X UNIX tutorial I just found yesterday. If you're an old time Mac user or just want to learn some UNIX commands then this is something you might want to check out...
In the past I was quick to judge Lindows.com, but now that they have started to change from there OVERLY custimized KDE, via xandros, to a more default KDE look and feel I have to say that I am starting to change my mind...but...
though i feel this is a good move for Linux on the desktop, is this the distro we want associated with Linux?
there are still a lot of things to think about here
(1) Still run as root!
This is a problem that needs to be overcome, there has been much discussion about this over at OSNews.com
I think they need a better policy for this, something similar to OS X maybe where you don't necessarily run as root but the users still have some administrative abilities but need a password for others.
(2) Lindows? the name sucks
I think they definetly need a new name, not only does it sound ridiculus, but if they want to lose the gimmicky image and be taken seriously by anybody they need a name change! (Mike, are you listening?)
what they are really good at is Marketing, i mean they market every little thing that other distro's can do or have been able to do for LONG time and make it sound like they are the only ones.
look at the article for example, he talks about "new" power savings modes for laptops...and they also claim to have "new" printer setup...which is ALL part of STANDARD kde! nothing new.
If anybody is the MS of the Linux world it's Lindows...use others technology and claim innovation! is this bad really? i don't know but just something to think about...
I don't know if this is totally true, and i have two examples...
1) when i introduced linux to my little sister, then 12, loved mulitple desktops...she also loved being able to customize the desktop...
2.) my wife loves kde, she LOVES virtual desktops. now...she is a med student so she isn't stupid, but she is completely computer iliterate she's the basic...email, web browsing, word processing person
yet she (without coaching) was able to us the kmenu, find what she wanted (konqueror, openoffice writer, kmail)
i have always been impressed on how my sister and my wife have taken to linux with very little explaining or coaching.
besides, virtual desktops are like a staple of all UNIX interfaces! it's like a tradition!
i still don't see what it matters if there package management system is not TOTALLY free, i am pretty sure i read somewhere that it was open just not GPL (a little more restrictive i think?)
and how does the package manager tie you into a single vendor? you can still use rpm or apt from the command line in any distro....you can also still use some of the various other front ends to apt and rpm like kpackage.
i am all for linux and open standards, but i believe some things are best opened and some things are best remained closed (from a business perspective)
I mean the package management system is still using standard packages is it not? it's not like only SuSE branded packages will work on SuSe?
In the linux world all distros come from the same base...so you have to differentiat your products by the "value added" stuff you put on top of it.
Slashdot Mirror
I can't believe nobody has mentioned Textar's PCLinuxOS project yet. It's based on Mandrake 9.2 plus Texstars enhancements.
You can find more info here: PCLinuxOS Homepage
It's still early in development but looks really promising! They just released Preview 5 on the 20th.
the Lindows Mobile PC they announced earlier:
Lindows Mobile PC
LinuxJournal just did a review of the machine itself in their latest issue and gave it pretty good marks.
They also have an entry on their website about uninstalling all the Lindows branded stuff and upgrading to Debian:
LinuxJournal: Customizing a Lindows MobilePC
I totally disagree that it should look like Windows!
d ows
Making distributions that look and feel like Windows not only shows a lack or originality but only stands to confuse and frustrate "new" windows users in the end when something does not execute as they would expect them too only because they were lead to believe that thier experience would be "like windows"
I recently posted a rant about this on my personal website here:
http://www.phatvibez.net/commentary.php?ID=notWin
Yes but it's OLD, I stumbled across this several "years" ago and it has not been touched since.
It's also based on wine or winelib.
bah, who needs history, we never seem to learn from it anyway...
Why? I haven't seen any real arguments for this other than, it's what other platforms do so it must be a good idea
/. land are going to say then don't run commercial software, or don't upgrade your OS nobody is forcing you too...or some other such nonsense.
Because...it's all about third party applications (especially commercial/proprietary ones)!
Like it or not, for Linux to become mainstream it will have to be able to run off-the-shelf commercial software at some point.
Linux right now is a headache for companies because it is always a moving target (not to mention having to try to support every damn *popular* distro out there or the community is all up in arms because they choose only to support Red Hat).
Distributions releasing every 6 months dosn't give them nearly enough time to make sure their apps work properly on the new platform, ship, market, support..etc! by that time the distributions have made another release only including the latest and greates libs and software (even if they are the most stable or not) and usually that means something (even the smallest thing) will need to be fixed to ensure a QUALITY program.
Imagine this...you are avg. joe end-user and are running linux. You go out and buy some fairly expensive graphics application for $200 because you need it for work, no other app even comes close to the features, ease of use, and support of this application. 5 months later your distro of choice releases a new much improved product!
but wait, now your graphics application dosn't work exactly right (or fails to start at all).
Now i know all you geeks out there in
backwords compatablity is a big deal, and like it or not windows and macos deal with it a LOT better than any Linux distro.
that big floating head thing at the very end,
the reason it scares me so much is because it kind of looked like my,
then soon-to-be, mother-in-law!
still give me the creeps.
Most of them do and have for a while...and if not they are currently starting the switch.
Digital Domain, Disney, Double Negative, Dreamworks, Flash Film Works, Hammerhead Industrial Light & Magic, Pixar, Rhythm & Hues, Sony Pictures, Tippett, Weta Digital
Linux was also used on movies such as Harry Potter, Stuart Little, Scooby-Doo and many many more.
check out these links:
linuxmovies.org
movieeditor.com/linux.movies.html
any of these LJ artilces:
Robin Rowe LJ Articles
so right before Microsoft plans to ditch NTFS for WinFS (there database like filesystem) we get NTFS resize features...
but at what cost? making linux look like a cheap knock-off in the eyes of many outside geekdom
diminishing the the "goodwill" and reputation of linux...and for what? a company that acts in many ways like another Microsoft (over-hype, lies, deception)
and what does causing pain for Microsoft actually do for Linux (especially in this case)?
Lindows is a *really* stupid name anyway...
I wouldn't use something called Lindows even if it *were* the best Linux distro!
in my opinion, a name change would do them good. right now their name makes them sound like a crappy windows knock-off...
my comparison has always been this.. lindows makes Linux sound like PayLess Shoes... why would you want PayLess shoes when everyone else (95%) are wearing Nikes?
Making Linux look a cheap knock-off isnt' good for the community in my opinion
Yes, it's a start be not nearly enough...
There is still too much of a difference between distributions.
besides he said "...pooled their resources and made one, standard linux desktop running on one, standard gui interface."
This is what UnitedLinux is trying to do...create a standard base to build upon, which is a brilliant idea.
The LSB has nothing to do with pooling the resources of different companies for a common good...It just *tries* to set some standards on how a Linux system should be set up.
The sad part about it is that if Linux itself were one company, one *primary* interface, one packaging system, etc...it would have a much better chance of beating microsoft.
Instead we have to rely on uncomplete standards that nobody *really* follows anyway.
I again would like to state that the concept of UnitedLinux is brilliant, think how awesome it would be if ALL linux companies/distributions pooled their resources together for reserach and development, creating a STANDARD base to build on, and certifying software and hardware to work with it!...Vendors wouldn't have to decide what distro to package for, all RPMS (or whatever standard package was used) would be "foobar.UL.rpm" and it would work on ALL distributions without change. You wouldn't have to worry about creating a package for every-god-damn-distro-on-earth...or making sure your hardware works with every one of them...it would just work.
Cooperation and standardization is your friend!
I didn't see where they said that one division carrying the the rest of the company was an abuse of their monopoly position?
They just simply pointed out that it was further proof that a monopoly exists...not that it was an abuse itself.
more specifically that they can artificially inflate prices and keep them high is an abuse of monopoly powers.
Gimp, from what I have heard, will have CYMK capabilities in the 2.0 release along with a ton of other improvements...but who know's when this will actually get released.
and check out Scribus"
it's still fairly young in development but is pretty nice.
Homepage
apps.kde.com entry
I have already used it to create some pretty nice PDF files.
This isn't true, there will always be paid
programming positions.
Even in a completely OSS world the scenerio would work out something like this...
Some Company uses someApp but they need additional functionality, they would hire programmers to do the work -or- use in house programmers to do it.
on top of that there is always going to be company specific in house software, which even if open sourced will be maintained in-house becasue likely it will have little use to the general public or even it's competitors.
OSS isn't the death of the software industry...it's just another way of looking at it.
Look at some of what's going on now...IBM, HP, SGI, Red Hat (and most of the other distro's) have paid programmers working on Linux or other OSS software.
And why does OSS mean fewer people getting paid for IT work? Last I checked runing a network and supporting users wasn't dependent on propriety software? does this mean if all software is OSS networks automatically just work and users all of the sudden no longer need help?
marketers are definetly out of a job! we all know OSS software sells itself!
I agree, I have been watching AtheOS, and now Syllable, for a while and it looks promising!
especially when looking at this...
Daryl Dudely's new preference apps
and now they even have samba compiled for it Here!
I even have a link to them on my website so that I can easily check out any new updates.
OpenBeos
Blue Eyed OS (B.E.O.S)
YellowTab
and BeBits gets updated regulary with new applications for the BeOS.
the BeOS is down, but not out...the Be community is still very strong!
Here is a project I found a little while ago that is trying to create a Linux distro (actually just a graphical interface) for home theater multimedia devices to be displayed on the TV.
h tm
here is the homepage:
http://staff.washington.edu/jmgasper/index.htm
check out the screenshots here, pretty cool looking!:
http://staff.washington.edu/jmgasper/screenshots.
I love Phoenix and have been using it as my primary browser since 0.1 was released.
I have posted severl screenshots on my site:
0.1 screenshots are here:
http://www.phatvibez.net/reviews.php?ID=phoenix
0.2 screenshots are here:
http://www.phatvibez.net/reviews.php?ID=phoenix2
Here is a MacOS X UNIX tutorial I just found yesterday. If you're an old time Mac user or just want to learn some UNIX commands then this is something you might want to check out...
http://www.osxfaq.com/Tutorials/LearningCenter/
In the past I was quick to judge Lindows.com, but now that they have started to change from there OVERLY custimized KDE, via xandros, to a more default KDE look and feel I have to say that I am starting to change my mind...but...
though i feel this is a good move for Linux on the desktop, is this the distro we want associated with Linux?
there are still a lot of things to think about here
(1) Still run as root!
This is a problem that needs to be overcome, there has been much discussion about this over at OSNews.com
I think they need a better policy for this, something similar to OS X maybe where you don't necessarily run as root but the users still have some administrative abilities but need a password for others.
(2) Lindows? the name sucks
I think they definetly need a new name, not only does it sound ridiculus, but if they want to lose the gimmicky image and be taken seriously by anybody they need a name change! (Mike, are you listening?)
what they are really good at is Marketing, i mean they market every little thing that other distro's can do or have been able to do for LONG time and make it sound like they are the only ones.
look at the article for example, he talks about "new" power savings modes for laptops...and they also claim to have "new" printer setup...which is ALL part of STANDARD kde! nothing new.
If anybody is the MS of the Linux world it's Lindows...use others technology and claim innovation! is this bad really? i don't know but just something to think about...
I don't know if this is totally true, and i have two examples...
1) when i introduced linux to my little sister, then 12, loved mulitple desktops...she also loved being able to customize the desktop...
2.) my wife loves kde, she LOVES virtual desktops. now...she is a med student so she isn't stupid, but she is completely computer iliterate she's the basic...email, web browsing, word processing person
yet she (without coaching) was able to us the kmenu, find what she wanted (konqueror, openoffice writer, kmail)
i have always been impressed on how my sister and my wife have taken to linux with very little explaining or coaching.
besides, virtual desktops are like a staple of all UNIX interfaces! it's like a tradition!
I would like to bring up a VERY good point that
/disks folder shows that."
someone else made in a comment at osnews...
"they aren't following the LSB's recomendations for file system organization fully, the
this definetly has to be the worst decision they could make...
while most other distro's are trying to become standardized and avoid fragmentation xandros seems to be running in the opposite direction.
i still don't see what it matters if there package management system is not TOTALLY free, i am pretty sure i read somewhere that it was open just not GPL (a little more restrictive i think?)
and how does the package manager tie you into a single vendor? you can still use rpm or apt from the command line in any distro....you can also still use some of the various other front ends to apt and rpm like kpackage.
i am all for linux and open standards, but i believe some things are best opened and some things are best remained closed (from a business perspective)
I mean the package management system is still using standard packages is it not? it's not like only SuSE branded packages will work on SuSe?
In the linux world all distros come from the same base...so you have to differentiat your products by the "value added" stuff you put on top of it.
I agree, and more inline with what i meant...i thought of that after i already submitted it