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On EBay: Shuttle Flight Deck Simulator
An anonymous reader writes: "Just to pass time before taking the real trip.
shuttle flight deck simulator" Not a real nasa simulator, but a very impressive operating replica. The construction details are quite interesting too.
Now terrorists can buy it so that they can train to hijack the shuttle.
Most of the pictures on the page have a little note under them saying what's being sold doesn't include everything shown. What is included?
If he recieved a grant (I'm assuming some type of educational type), wouldn't this be property of the goverment/school system/public entity?
If you want a cheaper way to play shuttle-pilot, X-Plane offers a space shuttle landing scenario. The demo version limits you to about 6 minutes of flight time, but that's enough to land the shuttle from final approach. Of course the payed version doesn't have a time limit, and you can start from space and land from there.
"This one-of-a-kind simulator is almost exactly like the simulators the NASA astronauts train on"
So it's a simulated simulator?
Not a real nasa simulator, but a very impressive operating replica. The construction details are quite interesting too.
I'd hardly call that 'operating'. Did you actually LOOK at the construction details? Most of the knobs/switches and doo-dads aren't even connected to *anything*. I would at LEAST like some of the switches to turn on a light or make something buzz or whirr or SOMETHING. Especially for the list price of $15k.
GIR: I'm going to sing the Doom song now. Doom doom doom doom doom doom de-doom doom doom doom doom doom doom...
13933 hits at 5:48 PM EDT ;-)
Already had read through the stuff, so far from the first hit
So close and yet so far from the world's perfect ID number
Basically, when he says "To my knowledge, there is not another like it in the world.", he may be right (to his knowledge, but then that just means that he is not very knowledgeable). There are other Space Camps around the US and the world (they are franchisees from the original in Huntsville) and at least some of them also have simulators.
Want to train for the 150-mile high club?
"We shall show mercy, but we shall not ask for it" -- Winston Churchill
but my first thought was "great set for a photo shoot or a film".
He tried selling this thing a total of 4 times, each of which he recieved NO BIDS AT ALL! It took him 3 times to sell his Actual NASA Mission Control Console Computer. Here are his attempts to sell that: First: Wanted $199, no bids Second: Wanted $175, no bids Third: Sold that thing for $50 Chances are by the time he sells this, it will be around $1000...
Great for the upcoming Playboy spread: Babes of Nasa!
oh, wait.....
Ride, Sally, Ride.
I'm guessing that would just make too much sense.
NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
Looking at these images it doesn't look like the switchs, buttons and toggles actually control anything. So it is more like a mockup with TV's and lots of switchs that don't do anything (other then maybe lightup). Hardly worth 15,000 dollars for something that just looks intersting but serves no actual function.
I also love Slashdot linked sites that have hit counters. Let's you see how bad a Slashdotting the site can take. Obviously, eBay is unaffected by a paltry Slashdotting.
Unfortunately for this guy, his Special Shuttle Web Page couldn't handle 17,000 hits and it's completely slashdotted.
I'm guessing you (like several people I know) don't understand why people play videogames either.
A lot of people (like myself) would like to do things that we can't - whether it's flying a space shuttle, piloting mecha, or leading a party of adventurers into a dungeon.
Flying an airplane is cool, but it's just not the same thing, any more than getting a job in the timber industry driving a six-legged forest walker would convince me to sell my copy of MechWarrior 2 =).
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
The parts are already packed. But he'll charge you $350 for packing anyhow.
And he wants to charge shipping on it as well.
I suppose with an opening bid of 15k, a couple hundred extra gets to be chump change for the buyer. Assuming anyone ever bids on it.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
There was a Space Shuttle simulator for DOS that came out back in 1992... As I remember, it replicated the functionality of most switches in the cockpit well. Perhaps it might be possible to combine the two?
As an aside, I remember switching the "jettison external fuel tank" switch on only a few seconds after takeoff... Not recommended if you want to survive!
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
Why not just bid what you are willing to pay? You know how proxy bidding works, don't you?
Because other people tend to base what they are willing to pay on what you are willing to pay.
Placing a competitive bid early in an auction is just plain stupid.
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
Gotta love the caption on the photos, too:
(Note: not all items in this photo are included in this auction)
So I don't even know how much of that thing $15K buys! Maybe it just buys the frame and all the knobs are to be sold on another auction?
Sheesh...
GMD
watch this
He's selling a bunch of sheets of wood, with some switches bolted on. And some pretty artistic stuff. I can't imagine why anyone would want this. But then ppl will buy anything, apparently.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
The guy who made that mech in his back yard - find the link yourself... should buy this and build it into a mech as the cockpit.
then all he would have to do is work on getting the controls to actually move the thing around.
I also had switch guards fabricated by a local metalworking shop. On the shuttle, their purpose is to keep the weightless, floating astronauts from accidentally bumping an important switch. In my simulator, they weren't really necessary, but I was going for total realism...
This is overkill, especially if it was taxpayer's money. Perhaps it was a fixed-priced contract and the extra's were on him, I don't know. Otherwise, just use erector-set L-joints or something.
Also, I have seen turn-knobs roughly similar to the grey ones he talks about at Radio Shack. He went and made *custom* turn-knobs.
If such "extra's" were out of his pocket, fine. However, as a tax-payer I would have a fit if I found out all the custom stuff that was made when close-enough ones were available off-the-shelf.
He must be an ex-military contractor.
Table-ized A.I.
What is this guy up to? When you look at the pictures and the price, it seems like a really cool simulator/mockup. But, digging a little deeper and looking at the list of items that are *actually* being auctioned off, there are a lot of things missing.
Not included are a few panels, headphones, TV sets, *the actual framework* that all this mounts on. One wonders why. Basically all your getting for $15,000 is some very nice looking skins. They're non functional and a lot of assembly/construction will be required.
But, what is he going to do with things like the framework? It sounds to me like he is dissatisfied with version 1.0 and is dumping the skins so that he can start version 2.0. Sorry pal, for $15,000 I expect the entire rig, as well as some support for putting it back together after shipping.
This is just the thing for a fledgling Chinese space program, doncha think? Actually, I'm surprised the man can't find a museum or some sort of park where he could rent this thing out. Not for actual missions, but still...
You need a FREE iPod Nano
And we will get to watch the video of the moon collapsing for the next year
If we allow the resulting change in the tides to affect us, the terrorists will have won
What's sad? This was constructed for a legitimate educational use. The sad thing is that a work of art like this is stuck in a storeroom somewhere, instead of being used and appreciated by another school, or a Science Museum somewhere.
fledgling Chinese space program
Haven't the Chinese had rockets for several centuries? What's the friggin' holdup over there?
A place like the Kansas Cosmosphere might be a btter place for this thing. A truly wonderful place, despite /.'s fear of Kansas.
This guy should give it to the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum. Their simulator they have there....well....sucks.
Gorkman
Maybe Lance Bass from N'Sync can afford this, since he doesnt seem to be able to pay his bill to the Russians on time... He can sit in the chair and make rocket noises...
If you'd actually read the site you'd know why this thing is worth $15K. This guy spent 3 years building it - it's not just some shell that looks pretty and that's about it.
So I should pay $15K because he spent 3 years building it, huh? And if he managed to build it in 1 year of super-intense work, would it only be worth $5K?
And, oh yeah, if I'm quoting from the site, then it stands to reason that I read it, don't cha think?
GMD
watch this
I think there was some water damage on a few of those panels... are we sure that these weren't retrieved from a Florida beach and cleaned up a little?
Way to follow a link or two there, tough guy.
The auction page quite clearly states that he recieved a grant to build it for a public school that he teaches at. He did not just throw it together in his garage so he could play "make-believe." This simulator was used for 6 years in the school where the students ran 3-hour long missions and learned a thing or two about the space shuttle and space in general.
If I were a student at this school when I was a kid I would have been grateful in the extreme to be able to play around with a simulator of this quality. Who knows how many kids got to experience this sim along with a knowledgeable teacher and decided that they might be interested in persuing a space-related career?
Seems to me that the creator of this thing, a public school teacher, set out to influence the lives of his students in a positive way. Odds are very good that he succeeded. With the kind of attitude that you display, you will never be that lucky.
I'd love to fly on the space shuttle, but its not going to happen and I'm not going to waste my time building expensive sets so that I can play "make-believe.
Or spend lots of money on a computer and internet connection and waste time posting on a website to play "I have a make-believe life". Having a beer with buddies or even sitting with your girlfriend is better than typing some stuff into a pretend community to a bunch of nerds.
As I write this, the counter is showing 24,719 hits--and no bids.
That has got to be one of the highest hit counts I've EVER seen on eBay. How frustrating to it must be to have that many hits and no bids.
I have to think the guy was unwise to set the starting bid so high, though. I wonder why he didn't set a lower bid and put in a $15,000 reserve? Then he would at least have been able to get a reading on its market value. (Although eBay does charge a reserve fee if the item doesn't sell...)
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
What a bunch of losers some of you are!
I went to this school in the mid-90's, and participated in this program. Let me tell you, this was the coolest thing I'd ever done - and nothing I've done since comes close.
We trained for five or six weeks, learning all the shuttle's systems and how they worked. We also trained in the simulator for several days, practicing the procedures over and over. We even landed the shuttle with some kind of computer sim.
It makes me mad to see some of your criticism. It's easy to criticize someone else's efforts, but I don't imagine any of you ever began to accomplish something as impressive as this.
If there were more dedicated teachers like this one, there would be a lot less of you jerks sitting in front of your computers all day in your momma's basement.
The simulator shown is incredibly authentic, but I think there are actually TWO such non-Nasa sims. I saw one about 15 years ago at a mall that was having a "air and space hobby" show.
The sim shown is what we call "Pre-MEDS". MEDS was an update to the cockpit (Multifunction Electronic Display System) to update the shuttle to semi-modern "glass cockpit", that is, use computer monitors instead of actual gauges.
Also, there were two original simulators used to develop procedures and do leading-edge-of-wing math modeling in the early 80's and I understood that those two simulators (real NASA sims!) were sold to private individuals or companies (as scrap, as far as Nasa was concerned). I may be wrong about that.
PS: I've worked at Nasa's shuttle astronaut training center since 1979.
Pavlov wouldn't be so famous if he'd used a can opener instead of a bell.
He'll never sell it with that high a minimum bid.
He should have started the bidding at $1 and had a reserve of $14,500. Then he could at least see what the market will bear for his thingy without risk.
Or spend lots of money on a computer and internet connection and waste time posting on a website to play "I have a make-believe life". Having a beer with buddies or even sitting with your girlfriend is better than typing some stuff into a pretend community to a bunch of nerds.
You sound depressed about your life.
So take it up in an airplane. Drop it. Depending on how high u start, you'll get several seconds of "zero G". Watch out for the dismount, though.
Pavlov wouldn't be so famous if he'd used a can opener instead of a bell.
I helped to install network cabling in the very school this simulator used to reside in a few years back... Although I never saw it running, it appeared to be a well crafted simulator. I've seen the one at space camp as well, and it was surprisingly close. I'm fairly certain most of the buttons and switches were wired to something, with several computers running the simulator. The room it was in had just about enough room to get in and out of the cockpit, the rest covered in equipment. My first reaction was disbelief that a school actually had something this cool. I can't believe the school ditched this... perhaps the local Children's Museum would be interested in it as a sort of local, mini-space camp. Either way, I think it was awesome that someone went to all this trouble to build something like this for his school. Regardless of how he's selling it off on e-bay, this guy is authentic about his description of the way he built it and the way it was used in the past.
Well continue on and we'll see just how good your reading comprehension is.
The auction page quite clearly states that he recieved a grant to build it for a public school that he teaches at. He did not just throw it together in his garage so he could play "make- believe."
Oh yeah? Then read the opening on ebay:
Seems to me that the creator of this thing, a public school teacher, set out to influence the lives of his students in a positive way.
Seems like he got a government grant to build a fantasy toy for himself (see quote from ebay) that the students also used and he's now trying to sell it for $15K. I'd be a lot more impressed if he was donating it to another school, but he seems more interested in 'influencing his bank balance in a positive way.'
The ideal would be for somebody to get this thing who wants to put enough computer support behind it that you can fly simulated missions. There are some open source flight sims you could use as a base for future work.
I don't understand what quoting the ebay page proves. I'm fully aware that most people will never get a chance to fly a space shuttle. But I'm also aware of the fact that just one experience like this for the right kind of kid could start him onto the path to becoming the next Neil Armstrong. Your original post had the pessimistic tone of, "boy, what a loser this guy is building a shuttle sim for no good reason then selling it off on ebay." My point was merely that there certainly was a good reason, one that you seemingly didn't even bother looking into before jumping into bitch mode.
Seems like he got a government grant to build a fantasy toy for himself (see quote from ebay) that the students also used and he's now trying to sell it for $15K.
How do you reason that he built it all for himself and got the government to pay for it? A project like this is a labour of love no matter how much money is involved. If I ever had the opportunity to do something this cool (and then share it with others) I'd jump at it in a second.
Granted, I'd never pay $15k for the thing (would much rather enjoy building one myself, actually) and it would be awful nice of him to donate it to another school, but it is well within his right to sell it to someone else who could do something useful with it. It would be a waste of my time to complain about his ethical standards.
FWIW, working in the underpaid, underappreciated public school system and undertaking the huge task of constructing something of this magnitude, $15k is barely a door prize. I'd wager that over the last 9 years, he's spent a fair chunk of his own money and time maintaining and upgrading the sim but there's no proof of that either way.
But, with proxy bidding, other people cannot know what I'm willing to pay until they bid above my maximum. Once they've done that it doesn't matter anyway.
You're missing the point. By bidding early, you give the other bidders something to aim for.
Few people have a perfectly fixed idea of what a given item is worth. If I bid $10 for a CD and one or more people come along later and outbid me, it may have the effect of persuading me that the CD is "worth" more than $10, and that I should raise my maximum bid. Conversely, if I'm the high bidder, I really don't want to give the other bidders time to stew about being outbid. There's no upside at all to that.
This kind of thinking is what turns auctions into "competitions," often in defiance of common sense. It's just human nature, nothing more and nothing less.
Seeing the auction process as a competition is stupid. The seller is the only "winner."
Very true. That's why eBay has several million auctions running at any given time. Sellers (like myself) LOVE people who follow your advice and bid early.
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
I don't understand what quoting the ebay page proves.
The intent for the project: A cool toy for people who want to pretend that they are astronauts.
How do you reason that he built it all for himself and got the government to pay for it?
Read his ad: "if you're like me..." As to funding: "In 1991, I received a grant to build a space shuttle simulator at a public school where I was a science teacher. After three years of construction (mostly by me), our simulator became operational." If his primary interest was in seeing it put to good use to inspire students, it would be in another school right now instead of being sold on ebay, wouldn't it?
A project like this is a labour of love no matter how much money is involved. If I ever had the opportunity to do something this cool (and then share it with others) I'd jump at it in a second.
That's very commendable and I'm sure that, if you try, you can find something that you can do in a similar vein.
Granted, I'd never pay $15k for the thing (would much rather enjoy building one myself, actually) and it would be awful nice of him to donate it to another school, but it is well within his right to sell it to someone else who could do something useful with it. It would be a waste of my time to complain about his ethical standards.
The entire process of getting a government grant to build the flight deck for a school and then privately auctioning it off on ebay is questionable, legally and ethically, at best. But perhaps the real lapse was the school's in giving him school property worth $15K (his estimate of its worth).
Don't get me wrong. If this guy had built the thing for his students and then donated it to another school when his school could no longer house it, I'd be recommending him for Teacher of the Year. But that's not what happened. He built it with public funds and the help of his students and is now trying to get $15K (or more) from whatever self-indulgent, rich person is willing to buy it.
If you could be paid for that, you would be a rich man now.
You're obviously not a troll, based on that stupid posting history of irrelevent BS posted at +1 with no one paying attention, but you aren't a karma whore either, because you never post anything of any relevence.
You don't have great reading comprehension, do you?
You are just another cowardly little person hiding behind your anonymity so that no one can see a history of your "contributions." I have no doubt that it would be amusing.
You click on the number representing feedback, behind his user name.
jred
I'm not a mechanic but I play one in my garage...
No, I am arguing that, overall, Karma often relates to the value of the posting. But, as you can see from my history, I speak my mind even when it occasionally results in negative Karma points.
You, on the other hand, appear to be hiding behind anonymity rather than taking the blame/credit for what you write. Why is that?
Other bidders have no idea what to aim for, because do not know what my maximum is.
(sigh) They don't have to know what to aim for. They will still cost you, the early and eventually-successful bidder, more money just by trying.
What you're forgetting is that on eBay, it's the second-highest bidder that determines how much the winner pays. The less time the second-highest bidder has to reconsider his maximum bid, the better off the highest bidder is.
Placing your maximum bid early in an auction practically guarantees that you will pay more than you would have if you had placed the same maximum proxy bid in the last few seconds of the auction. Whether you like it or not, that's how the game is played.
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
Anonymous speech is protected speech.
I never claimed that you did not have a right. I just questioned your motivation.
I write anonymously such that I can say things people who karma whore like you don't like and keep you from modbombing things that I think everyone should be able to see.
So you post anonymously to protect your valuable Karma points you've been whoring under your real login name. I understand.
Your use of a pseudonym on Slashdot would not allow me to identify you. It would allow me to identify the collection of messages you have posted and the opinions you have expressed. Does knowing that someone logs into Slashdot as "shadow303" really tell you anything private about them?
I have to wonder how many people post anonymously out of a desire to keep from being accountable for things that they said in the past. They can argue in favor of spamming one day and the next they can call for spammers to be hung and no one will be the wiser or call them on their contradictions.
Both charges are entirely at the discretion of the seller. Ebay is merely a marketplace, it doesn't set the terms of sale, at all.
And my point was, that when you're selling something for 15k, it just seems cheesy, to squeeze an extra couple hundred out of someone for shipping and packing.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
You know that notorious black-hat hacker fyodor regularly hacks people whose opinions he disagrees with on slashdot?
So you believe that Slashdot is tracking IP addresses associated with user postings (but only for those users posting under a login) and providing those IP addresses to "notorious black-hat hacker fyodor"?
Have you ever seen the movie "A Beautiful Mind"?