Slashdot Mirror
Google Disappears In China
An anonymous reader submits: "The censorship in China was finally getting better since people were 'allowed' to read the CNN news now (except for certain articles). But since this weekend it seems that a new web page has been censored in China. Since this weekend it looks like everyone in China is not 'allowed' to use google.com anymore. google.com was also gaining populairity in China as the better search engine (which also works fine in Chinese). But now I guess it got too popular and thus not allowed. Or does it have anything to do with Yahoo signing the agreement to censor?" Comments to yesterday's post "Real-Time Testing of China's Internet Filters" also noted that Google has gone missing within China.
I guess they wouldn't ban their communist propaganda sites... makes sense. Praise the motherland, comrade Taco.
That's what some people think anyway. Seems they've heavily de-emphasized Google in their searches, and in the past, they've used holiday weekends for similar switchovers. Time will tell...
this is not the first site they blocked so whats big deal? FP..
Surely it's because Google's cache would allow people inside the Great Firewall to read all manner of banned web pages?
Google's cached page feature could give anyone in china the ability to see any censored sites (or at least older copies).
GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
Maybe google labs can whip up a quick p2p client that will allow people to use google in places where it is blocked.
Is it possible that google's cache allows the Chinese to view 'forbidden' websites?
Using the Google API, someone else could setup a Google gateway/proxy sort of thing. It could do searches, and even retrieve cached information on pages. And, the thing is, China would never know where one of these API gateways would pop-up. Only limiting factor would be the 1000 queries per day. I bet a billion Chinese can go through those in no time!
Why doesn't Google set up a bunch of servers operating within China, behind Chinese firewalls, so that Google cannot index or cache pages the government doesn't approve of?
They could call it google.cn...
Goatse.cx is A-OK by Chinese authorities, but google isn't?
Wow... now that's what I call a strange can of worms.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Do it through the wayback machine.
Is anybody even remotely surprised?
I just tried typing "China" at google.com and I got 24,300,000 results.
:)
Whoever said that china disappearred from google was a complete fucking liar.
It's available from Googles cache.
Err... Never mind.
bash$
Has China banned The Way Back Machine yet?
ender-iii
Reading news like this makes me glad I'm an American...
But it also makes me a little scared. After reading some of the articles about how Americans are becoming so willing to give up their freedoms for a sense of security, I'm afraid that America could very easily slip into this same type of bullsh*t. Don't people see that we need to fight for our freedoms?
Hail free speech!
(I want to be able to keep my porn!)
There's no source, no reference; just a wild rumors from an anonymous coward. I don't believe /. editors would down to spreading FUD for a few extra hits.
:)
In China there are some search engines like Yam which is google based and use google's queries. Even if you haven't heard of Yam, you might have heard of a China based search engine company suing Yahoo for stealing queries. Yam is more popular than Google here.
If they block Google they might have to block Yam as well, which would then be a real chaos.
To the Chinese Government: don't think you can get away with this. We are watching you. Remember the IIS fuck China worm? Remember when Americans penetrated Chinese censorship sites. One particularly activist group is the Cult of The Dead Cow, as they are involved with a US-Canada-Europe anti-China-human-rights-abuses hacking group, the Hong Kong Blondes.
Its only a matter of time until the Internet disappears in China, and the Chinese government succumbs under its own agenda.
"The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
Google access decreased steadily the whole of last week.
First it was www.google.com that went down, then the country specific versions, now the wwwN.google.com types.
IP addresses work for viewing, but a get/post doesn't work, so no searching.
From what I can see, the firewall is just dropping packets on those ports at the 80,443 addresses.
You can ping google, and see what open ports are on, but a raw GET on port 80 or 443 does nothing.
Net Scan returns this:
IP Address : 216.239.51.100
Resolved : www.google.com
Operating System : probably Unix
Time to live (TTL) : 42 (64) - 22 hop(s) away
Open Ports (2)
80 [ Http => World Wide Web, HTTP ]
H 400 Bad Request
Content-Length: 1210
Connection: Close
Server: GWS/2.0
Content-Type: text/html
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 06:45:23 GMT
443 [ HttpS => Secure HTTP ]
Looks like its back to the dark old days of proxy's again.
Lawrence
www.shanghaiguide.com
I wonder who will ultimately win?
Or better make it this way - for how long peer connections will be possible?
any site provide free webpage hosting will be forbidden soon, even just for free software.
Yam is accessible, and so is Yahoo.
Too bad China overlooked Google proxies...they exist you know.
"The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
Every year or so, I get to rewrite this article, because it seems to continue to be regarded as news.
The government of the PRC, through Zhonghua Telecom, continues to filter traffic going in and out of China.
The filters do not work. This is old news. Proxy servers are everywhere.
Here's the secret which doesn't seem to have gotten out of China yet, the filters don't have to work. They're not designed for the users.
Contrary to popular belief, China is not run as an absolute dictatorship. It's run by a circle of maybe a few dozen people who's opinions really matter. Like any good-sized group, there's a lot of disagreeement about how much (or little) openness there should be to the rest of the world.
The filters exist to appease the more close-minded members of the circle and to let them know that the best efforts are being made to keep bad stuff out of the minds of users.
My best guess about Google disappearing is that one or more companies who are providing portal and search services in China have been complaining to the Ministry of the Information Industry about loss of market share to Google. The solution? If Google gets blocked, the market share for locally-produced Chinese portals goes up!
Is this good policy? No. Probably not. I've seen protectionist policy used all over the world and it's generally not the consumer or even the producers who benefit. It's a few well-placed friends of the folks in power. At least in this case, there's always another open proxy server which someone "forgot" to close up to work around this bit of government silliness.
Happy hunting all!
j.
Hellooo? McFly? Anybody home?
They are blocking 2 Billion + people of an Internetsite that's something like the cornerstone of online information!
Don't you also think that a lot of powerpeople in the US and elsewhere envy the chinese powermongers for this? What will the world look like in 10 years from now, when books are getting scarce and drm is all over us like a polyester safari suit and each of us will be paying hard bucks only to view data - and even that will be censored?
Pretty grim if you ask me...
What I'm saying is: This is not the least bit funny!
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
The Real-Time Testing of Internet Filters in China is reporting conflicting results.
In the recent results box:
http://www.google.com - Reported as inaccessible in China
http://www.google.com - Reported as accessible in China
Tests were completed within a few minutes of each other (I know because I did them both).
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
I guess Jim Exon has moved to Bejing.
You can't be serious. Rankings on google can be bought for a fee....what kind of societly cornerstone are you worshiping that's made of USD? Don't be such a chicken little.
Anyway, I wish China could realize and use this (internet) as a chance to stop censorship without loosing their face.
In my opinion, both the US and China have, in different ways, crossed the line of what is reasonable in terms of controlling on-line information. Both societies seem to be driven by irrational fear, and neither is afraid to crush people with the full force of the respective government and police force.
(What would be reasonable you ask? In the US, copyright violations should be treated as civil matters, not criminal matters. Tax payers shouldn't have to pay for enforcing conformance to bizarre contractual obligations imposed by companies like Microsoft.)
As of September 2nd 2002, the United States Internet surpasses the China Internet by a tenfold. Rebuild China Internet today.
It's time for a pragmatic approach: The people at Google should get in touch with the people from the Chinese Government Networking Services and get a deal done for hosting a mirror (mirror? link? whatever) inside the Chinese part of the Internet.
It's ideal in a couple of ways:
- The 1+ billion people (yes I know that they don't have all access to the internet) have access to a good working search-engine. Even if it's without the "view cache" feature, at least they have the search-engine.
- The traffic of the 1+ billion people searching through the Google database doesn't have to go over the ocean toward the US anymore (yes I know that US ISPs don't pay for the intercontinental links)
- (think of some other advantages yourself)
Of course, the first thing what is going to be said now is "Who is going to pay for this?"...
bash$
Eaxctly :0
You and 1000 other businesses since 1990....
Use google.ca or yam.com instead.
They don't seem to be blocked in China.
Basicly, if the media wants, they can brainwash majority of people in believing anything they want.
In the case of censorship, you know atleast, that you don't have access to unbiased information - and you know that if you want to create an unbiased opinion, you need to do it yourself.
But, as we have free speech, it is easy to leave thinking to the media, and let someone else form your opinion. So, to some extent, I think that the fact that media is controlled by tiny interest groups, is maybe even a bigger threat than censorship.
Sourceforge is blocked but IBM's Developer center is not.
We will never see the benefit of IBM's 1 billion dollar investment in Linux because the majority of that investment is in China which is blocked by Cisco for China.
Hate to sound like chicken little but it shure looks like IBM is hijacking GNU/Linux.
What difference does it make if source is posted if it never makes it out of the country?
And just because China is free with other people's intellectual property does not mean they are free with their own.
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.
Everytime I type google.com in I get redirected to google.ca. I've deleted my cookies, rebooted my browser, tried again, same thing. Does google redirect me according to my ip which would be in a range specific to Canada? This bothers me on a subtle level, but also makes me think about why there is no google.cn, that's all.
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
Yahoo uses google for part of its searching now so the Chinese could use it and get similar results.
/. editors are going to this site banned also if they keep posting stories about China.
The
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
Thank god for Google Labs, once again. You can run a search off of Keyboard Shortcuts, and take advantage of cached copies, etc. Some of the images that were on the main google server don't come up. But hey, it works. Also, Google Images/Google Directory & Google Groups still work. /. :)
I'm currently in China right now on a project, and coding without Google is not easy - especially since there isn't any english bookstore I can run over to while I'm here to pick up a tech manual.
But maybe I shouldn't be posting this? I guess this is a good chance to see if the Chinese government reads
"Teachers leave us kids alone
Why do some people want from Slashdot to have 0-day news? Isn't it enough nobody really mentions such things on other news reports? gawd.. I hate to see these "It's not really news so what" in every single news article. Did you really know it? Perhaps not. Have you ever talked about it on a news site that allows you to write your comments? Perhaps not.
p2p isn't possible if the guys who rule the Great Firewall know what they are doing (which brings on an interesting question... who rules the rulers? somewhere in China are people who are VERY CLOSE to the power that be... I wonder where they surf...)
You probably ask "why isn't it possible" and the answer is pretty simple: by working over TCP/IP you have to send all of the data in some recognizble protocol ( a format in which both the client and the server knows how to read and what to read ) and therefor all you have to do is block the packets who looks like they belong the p2p mechanism (and any other packets you don't like).
your propaganda doesn't wash here. google does not sell placement. their ads are clearly marked as such, and do not appear mixed in with the results. get your facts strait, bucko!
I knew I could grab some flames from someone.
Thanks man!
Goatse.cx [harvard.edu] is A-OK by Chinese authorities, but google isn't???
Goatse's at harvard?
I figued that guy was from Yale...
-- My Weblog.
Not good to have people learning about stuff. Expect similar things in the US. All governments are deeply interested in having a hand in what their people think about. The internet is making that a difficult task.
This is the sort of thing you probably aren't seeing in the mainstream press.
These suits are becoming popular with police forces. Have something you don't like about the government and want to hold a peaceful protest? Kinda makes you think twice. Which is the desired effect of the scary looking suits. This is the United States in 2002. Really.
When I read articles like this, a quote from Alpha Centauri (the video game) comes to mind:
As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
Commissioner Pravin Lal
"U.N. Declaration of Rights"
And every one of these articles I see reinforces that belief.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
slashdot finally post this story on the fp...
i feel both gratified and worrying
the 16th All-Hands meeting of CCP will be held on 18th Nov at BeiJing, it will announce the fourth core-leader of the party (the first three is Mao, Deng, Jiang), the political battle just run in white hot. you can image how could this be, in a autarchy. currently, they are very sensitive about the public media, as well as the internet, this is so called "the very period", that's why google has been banned. it's quite understandable(not acceptable) from my point of view (No, i'm not brainwashed), google will be ok after this year.
my respect goes to google
for their disobedience
my useless indignation goes to Cisco and Yahoo!
for their "commercial operation"
god or someone else bless us...
free speech rulz
It's called "encryption", and I believe it would avoid this.
I am helping a friend in China get set up to use Peekabooty.
The way it works is basically that lots of people outside the firewall run proxy servers. People inside the firewall need to get Peekabooty's IP address list, and then they select a proxy to use. You can get the host.lst file from http://pabdb.cjb.net/.
Their web browsing is private because the connection to the proxy uses SSL encryption. The chinese will think you're shopping online. If they try to block the SSL port, then China will be unable to participate fully in the world economic system, increasingly so in the next few years.
The problem is that if Peekabooty's website isn't already blocked, it certainly will be soon. To avoid stimulating the interest of the authorities, I am making arrangements for my friend and I to have an encrypted conversation where I will tell him what he needs to do.
The peekabooty proxy runs on windows, but there is a linux port in progress. The people inside the firewall don't need to install any software, only configure their browser to use one of the SSL proxies.
It would be helpful for people to mirror Peekabooty's documentation and the IP address list. Likely many of the mirrors won't be blocked and so the chinese (and the Singaporeans, and residents of many Muslim countries) can access the information.
If you personally know anyone inside a firewalled country, do your part by helping them learn to use peekabooty. But find a way to arrange to tell them how while using encryption.
Unfortunately, PGP messages are pretty obvious that they're encrypted. If someone starts sending and receiving them, the authorities might take notice even of that.
But most web browsers nowadays support 128-bit SSL encryption. Thus it is possible to arrange to have a conversation with someone via SSL encrypted form submission.
There doesn't appear to be a way right now to do this, but it is being worked on.
In the meantime, mirroring the peekabooty instructions and proxy list and making the URL's available where the Chinese might pick them up will help get things started.
Autopr0n is blocked!
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.
So who's going to sort through Google's three billion ever-changing pages to decide what's OK for China and what's not?
To understand Chinese censorship of the Web, and everything else, you first need to understand the obscurity of it; while of course there are some areas, like pro-Falun Gong sites, that are off-limits, there's a huge grey area where who knows what goes. That's the real problem for AOL and others operating directly in China and subject to Chinese restrictions on what appears on their sites: it's just not possible to know where the line is drawn.
the great wall firewall maintainers would block outbound port 25, all of us /.ers would see this as acceptable
The thing is though is that this is not going to work. It seems to me it's a classic case of a government underestimating the intelligence of its people.
In short, this may be one of the things that brings the "red curtain" down in China. I can only fear for what will happen afterwards though.
This sig no verb.
Nice try, but unless the routers know where packets are headed they can't route them. And oh, this packet looks like it's headed for port 6346? Ditch it. Oh, you've changed to KaZaa now? That port's toast. Oh, you've decided to get tricky and conviced everybody to use port 80. Nix - you can only visit official websites now. ICMP? Nope, we'll just overwrite any twiddlable bits that might be carrying information.
Oh, look, "They" can block our information pathways. Sucks, don't it?
--Knots;
Anarchy$ dd if=/dev/random of=~/.signature bs=120 count=1
"Google was long known as a tool for hackers and perverts," said Truth Minister Chu. "It didn't serve any purpose for the greater good of the people, which is why it presumably went out of business without even a goodbye. Every economist knows this rude, erratic behavior is common among companies that can not find a way to serve the needs state."
Most good citizens won't even miss the Web site.
"It was too boring," said Jie Zhang, a rice farmer. "There was only one picture on the whole site and it was promoting the self-serving ideals of capitalist branding. Plus many of the pages were in other languages, so the site was useless to me. I'm glad I couldn't understand it, because I wouldn't want to be imprisoned for reading dangerous materials."
Many citizens said they have never used Google; they remain true to the official Chinese search engine: http:///www...
(If this had been a real news story, I would have linked to the source. If you still take it seriously after reading this, you deserve to be laughed at. A lot.)
Here is a list of sites Chinese people shouldn't see. The list includes Google, Altavista. Amnesty, geocities, various .mil sites, free speech sites, Slashdot, SourceForge, and some porn sites as well as a variety of politically oriented sites.
:)
Does the US currently have any plans for a "regime shift" over there?
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
It's becoming clear that the Chinese government want one thing and the people another.
Get rid of the communist regime and then you can build for the future. It may not be a perfect future, but it's sure a damn sight better than what you've got now.
Now if they'd at least use those filters to get rid of all the spam, but nooooo, that side of the capitalist west is acceptable. Probably because it brings some cash.
Then again, maybe the Herbal Viagra and Enlarge Your Penis Now spams are the People's Republic's way of waging a war of terror against us capitalist pigs.
...right, and the check is in the mail. How's it feel being duped?
It's called "encryption", and I believe it would avoid this.
no it can't. you can't envrypt the actual port you are using, and if you will try encrypting the http headers a basic firewall can detect it and throw your packets...
First of all, i am living in china, and i am using one adsl connection here, so i think my test is more accuray. Sorry, my english is not so good. From all of my testing result, i can sure that they are using some DYNAMIC PACKET PATTERN MATCHING method to banning sites!
test 1: As all of you already know, www.google.com access was filtered, although i can still visite it through ircache proxy (sv.us.ircache.net)ï¼OEbut if i input some FORBIDDEN WORDS to search, it instantly stops, and what i get is "connection reset by peer", and in short time it is not available.
test 2: About the havard testing page, they have a link contains all of the inaccessable sites, but i even can not fully open that page, why? That site is not in the ban list, but it contains some FORBIDDEN WORDS, such of "frxxnet"(i think this is the main reason why they banned sxxxxxfxxge.net).So my explorer just stops after shows the word "frxxnet".
My opinion is, they are doing pattern matching in packets to stop sensored words, that surely stopped most sites & proxies & emails from working. I think the only thing we can do is build a ssh tunnel outside....FXXK!
Starting testing...
... is your firewall better than mine?
Stage one testing complete.
Stage two testing complete.
Testing complete for http://www.google.com. Result:
Reported as inaccessible in China
As a result of this, Imm looking into options about getting around it, Im pretty sure if somone setup a squid proxy server, that might allow buddies in china to access censored pages. Right ? Come to thing of it lemme try that out now ;p
When you can't argue the facts, just nitpick the source...
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
Speaking of censorship, what about censorship on our own turf? Google has been good to us so far and has not gone and censored the search results however, how much longer before the RIAA and MPAA sues google for linking to the wrong links?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
RIAA and MPAA will block anything which allows you to share music, will block you from your ISP if you disagree with their philosophy, will raid your house and throw you in jail for sending music.
Speaking of censorship if anyone is doing the censorship we censor even more than China.
In China theres "piracy" but the Chinese while they know piracy does harm certain american business, they should be learning from our mistakes, what they have done is started moving to Redflag linux instead of microsoft, open source solutions solves the piracy problem, people will stop pirating software when software is open source.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
If Google is blocked (sounds rumorish to me), then why are we so upset about it?
I don't know much of anything about China, or any other Asian country for that matter. I just know that they're different in many ways. My values are not the same as theirs. I really don't want to go impressing mine upon them either. If the Chinese people aren't fighting the censorship of Google, then I'm not fighting it either.
They probably think American kids are nutso about believing in an overweight man who climbs down chimneys and drops off toys every year, but I never had a Chinese person approach me and tell me about the great hoax!
To put it another way: it's only our problem if they ask for our help. It becomes their problem when we force help on them. Leave them be.
I am from Perth Western Australia and am currently living in Belfast in Northern Ireland.
My father was catholic and my mother Jehovah witness, my father also used to get violent and walk the house tearing up bibles, so I saw my fair share of turmoil growing up. My girlfriend and I don't class ourselves as any religion.
In my fathers house, I would hear my name being called, the TV and stereo switching on "by itself". My ex girlfriend would also hear babies crying in the house when she was on her own. These "minor" happening continued for the remaining time I would stay there.
The next major happening was a night when I invited a large group of friends to a have a party at the house. All the guests left to go to a night club (including my ex girlfriend), except myself and three of my friends. One of my friends had taken a mixture of different drugs and alcohol. About 30 minutes after everyone left, my intoxicated friend started to change. His voice changed, his eyes turned bright read, and his shoulder length hair stood on end. At this time one of my friends sat staring wildly at him, while the other one being very drunk, could not handle it and curled up into a ball on the ground. We could also hear footsteps all around us, and the lid of the cooler box started to flip over on the ground.
This intoxicated friend started asking us in a crackling voice to hit him and kick him in the face. My other two friends went to the park across the road and left me alone with him. They eventually came back and all this kept happening.
It stopped about 5 minutes before my ex girlfriend got home. All up it probably went for about 2 - 3 hours.
Two people in the dairy section of a chinese supermarket....
Chinsese shopper #1 (looking at a milk carton) I didn't know google had their own brand of milk.
Chinese shopper #2: It's not a brand logo, it's a "missing" picture.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
Well at least they let the people of china laugh at the americans!
I Guest China want otstart there own Search Engine. ie AOL + China Goverment = china.com i Guest they were too jelous that google was far more sperior. that china polled the plugged on google, and when with AOL CRAPY NETLOSE Search Technology instead.
Generally speaking, many of us in Asian countries do not have a problem with censorship, though may not be in Google'case. There are two reasons for this
:) The underlying assumption is that elders know best, and sometimes this gets extended to the state as well. Of late though, some youth have started to resent this, but the overwhelming majority remains in favor of censorship in movies, websites, books, whatever.
1. Culturally, we are comfortable with others making decsions for us, well into adulthood. Many Indians are fine with arranged marriages, so what's wrong with arranged browsing?!
2. The other reason of course is there is usually a way to get around censorship. For instance, it is common knowledge that benned X-rated films are freely available. But any talk of legalizing them would be met with huge outcries. As a society, we sometimes have a need to tell ourselves that we are clean of all offensive stuff, though the reality may be something else. I mean, we sometimes willingly fool ourselves...
Slashdotters from non-Asian countries need to keep this in mind whenever issues of censorship come up.
Given recent Chinese history (and the content of several of the blocked sites dealing with human rights abuses) your gag is somewhat tasteless...
The Spiritdaily website is blocked by China too (according to the real time list). It's the only Catholic or Christian site to be blocked, it seems. Can anyone find other Christian sites which are blocked?
SCIREV.NET - fanfics,reviews & more
i'm in shanghai right now and i'm reading slashdot, so it clearly isn't censored. contrary to the people on this list who aren't nearly as smart as they think they are, the chinese government doesn't give a fuck about pro-democracy sites. they're only concerned really with falun gong sites, as far as i can tell. oh yeah, google doesn't work. as of like yesterday or the day before. hey, check out jewbird.blogspot.com.
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods
well.. at least it has been for the last 45 minutes or so.. (i'm in shanghai)..
now i can finally get some work done.. o.. wait.. it's 6:30 PM.. time to go home!
It seems as if they're just banning web sites which are (in)famous among the Internet community. All the less obscure (yet equally objectionable sites) are still perfectly accessible. If they just keep banning the most popular sites, then all that will happen is that people will become more discreet in their surfing habits and they won't have any popular sites to block.
Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".
Due to email abuse (spam) originating from or relayed through servers located in China, and the fact that Chinese ISPs appear completely unresponsive to complaints, I've got all of China blackholed for SMTP (email).
Ironic, isn't it, that the Chinese government and ISPs seem to be able to find the time and technology to censor content originating elsewhere in the 'net, but can't seem to come up with the resources to avoid being a source of 'net abuse.
For a country that doesn't really care about the rest of the world (Kyoto, Johannesburg, International court, ...)
Your so-called 'care' for democracy in China is questionable if not pathetic.
This is tangential to the story, but worth mentioning:
The original anonymous poster mentions CNN, ostensibly as an example of free western journalism; this is a dangerous premise. As a dual citizen of the USA and a Western European country, I have the opportunity to see things from both sides of the fence, as it were, and I'm here to tell you that most of the mainstream U.S. "news" channels, and particularly CNN, are regarded outside the USA as little more than the U.S.'s propaganda machine; at best a joke, and at worst a shameful abdication of journalistic integrity.
Here's just one example (there are dozens!): Some of the Slashdot audience may not be old enough to remember the role of the news in the Vietnam era: during that conflict, news channels carried real, uncensored battlefield footage, which was by its nature often graphic and gruesome. People in the USA were able to see what was going on and what it was like; dead people and napalm and all. Consequently, there arose a tremendous opposition to the war, with lots of protests and high-profile objectors; the U.S. government's involvement was highly criticized. These factors certainly influenced the course of the war itself and U.S. policy afterward.
But the government learned their lesson.
During recent U.S. conflicts such as the "Gulf War" and the action in Afghanistan, the American "news" has been subject to governmental "guidelines," which allows them to show the public only press briefings and select footage from missile-mounted cameras depicting "surgical strikes" which only kill bad guys, never women and children and civilians. No bodies, not even body counts. Why? The government knows it needs to control public opinion; if we don't know what's going on, we won't object - so the media are subjected to "guidelines" invoked in the name of national security.
Again: this is only one example; there are many others. The point is that accepting what you see and hear and read in the American mainstream news media at face value is dangerous, like burying your head in the sand. These days, they tell us only what they want us to hear.
if i'm a grammar nazi, you're an illiteracy nazi.
After all China is stopping them from conducting business in order to promote their own portals?
I was receiving daily hist from the chineese version of google as people accessed it from china to read about P2P and mobile java programming and technology..
Now no referrals like that at all..
I miss my chineese viewers!
Don't Tread on OpenSource
...with suspicion over how it actually works
Remember the IIS fuck China worm?
No I don't. I remember the Sadmind worm that spread among Solaris machines and defaced IIS machines with "fuck USA Government fuck PoizonBOx" and a .com.cn e-mail address, and I remember some other worm (Code Red?) that jokes "Welcome to www.worm.com! Hacked by Chinese!" on pages it defaces hosted on servers running USA Windows.
Oh wait, after a quick search of the web, I find that somebody patched Code Red to use a slight variation of the Sadmind worm's payload: "fuck CHINA Government fuck PoizonBOx".
Will I retire or break 10K?
just juse the google mirror
China is dirty and mostly still primitive, but Chinese censorship isnt so bad. When I was in China just last year I and just about everyone could access every single website we wanted to. The government doesnt even pretend to monitor every computer or even isp. Its a myth created by the right wing that the Chinese "firewall" is this massive all seeing police tool. In reality it barely exists and most Chinese dont know what your talking about when you bring it up. The government has trouble controlling some of its regions. How are they going to control every computer or every ISP? They dont especially since corruption in China is worse than in Russia. You can probably buy your way out of a murder charge as easily as EVERYONE buys themselves out of a speeding ticket.
One of the explanation for the disappearance of GOOGLE in China is that the DNS has gone wrong, because you can easily access the GOOGLE with IP address. If a site is censored or blocked, the IP address should not work. But it is not true this time.
Didn't we all see this coming?
There was a slashdot story about alltheweb a while aback, with them claming to be >= google. My own search for my own name yielded more and (possibly even) better results then google. And, like google the superfluous crap is stripped out. It's just a clean interface to search, not a 'portal'.
:P
:P
They also have a nicer graphic design
Of course, I still use google most of the time because 1) Its easier to type 2) Its hardcoded into my homepage and 3) It usually finds anything I'm looking for.
If I couldn't get to google, (or if alltheweb had a better domain name) I'd probably use them.
Otoh, doing in a search in Chinese for "车" (new car) on Alltheweb and got only two results, vs about 4,450 on google.
Altavista converted the chinese characters into HTML entities (新汽车) and found nothing
Metacrawler found about 27 results, but displayed the link titles and 'abstracts' in ASCII so they all looked like "ÓÐ×ÅÓƾÃÄÀúÊ£" or whatever.
So I dunno. For chinese people doing queries in english alltheweb would be great. I have no idea what could replace google for chinese language searches. Since I'm only barely literate in Chinese I can't really go looking around for native-chinese pages to comment on
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Yeh, god forbid people should speak in any language but english around here.
Otoh, doing in a search in Chinese for "车" (new car) on Alltheweb and got only two results, vs about 4,450 on google.
The 'new car' would have been 'xin qi che', which theoreticaly you could see by going to the URL about:
Anyway...
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
that URL would be about:新汽车
/. changes the text in the about part.
And no, I (apperantly) can't make it clickable, because
It's so hypocritical the way slashdot argues for free speech but then places so many filters on what you can post, especially since they do it in such a ham-fisted manner, frequently preventing valid points from being posted.
Oh well, enough bitching for one day.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
you know, if you got to http://autopr0n.com:8080/ (for example) You'll make an http connection over port 8,080, and talk directly to the apache tomcat servlet/JSP engine rather then going through apache. (but don't do that, there is no mod_gzip on 8080 :P)
There is no reason I couldn't run a web server, or any other server on any other port. I could even run a p2p app on 80 if I wanted to. Blocking ports only makes things more frustrating for people because things don't work 'out of the box'. A little configuration will get it running in no time.
Also, a lot of protocols (such as HTTP, as in the example) include port numbers in URLs or other identification. So rather then getting a packet that says "there's another Freenet node on bla.somesite.com" it says something like "there's another Freenet node on bla.somesite.com port 80"
Freenet can even masquerade as other services, so connecting to them with a non-Freenet client will give you another service ("nothing to see here, move along") which means there is actually (well theoretically) no way to detect Freenet by bulk scanning. (well, actually there's away to get around that... and then another way to get around that workaround, but describing that would take me forever and would be entirely beside the point)
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
how could google.com be in the US but google.com/china be in china? The could do google.com.cn or google.cn or cn.google.com, but http directories can't be served from different machines without at least connecting to the 'base' machine first and being redirected.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I'd imagine.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Can't get Google?
Try the recently released Googlemai;
http://www.capescience.com/google/index.shtml
send an e-mail to: google@capeclear.com with your query in the subject line.
Of course, google cache is probably not accessible
So close and yet so far from the world's perfect ID number
Culterally, these people are really, really scared of Fascists and white supremicists. Kinda hard to blame them, isn't it? So they have all kinds of laws to make sure that Nazis never again get anything resembling power in Germany. For example, giving the "Heil Hitler" salute is illegal in Germany.
Frankly, I think this is commendable in this specific case. Here's a country that bends over backwards, any way it can, to avoid making the same mistake twice. How many other governments would do the same?
I'm the stranger...posting to
did we already forget that?
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
Link
Another contributor to a web forum said he used Google for research, not politics.
"I'm currently in China right now on a project, and coding without Google is not easy," he said, "especially since there isn't any English bookstore I can run over to while I'm here to pick up a tech manual."
Cheers,
Mzilikazi
Random Musings at Rum Smuggler
The poster has a valid point. Google isn't accessible, but "fuckcommunism.com" is? What's going on here?
I did a search on a site I run that isn't in any Yahoo directory, therefore must be accessed via actual search engine. I'm looking at a URL starting with http://google.yahoo.com . Check it yourself with a search.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Starting testing... Stage one testing complete. Stage two testing complete. Testing complete for http://google.com/. Result: Reported as accessible in China
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
apparently porn.com works just fine
Even more freedom and the best country in the world!
It is opensource, easy to use, and available here.
CapeScience built this GoogleMail to show off the Web Services interface of Google. Email your keyword on the subject line to google@capeclear.com and it will reply you the search results.
It's not meant to get through censorships, but, you see, the Net is filled with creative ideas.
It's sad to learn that things like sourceforge.net are also blocked.
I can't believe I got modded down as 'troll' for my post. I was serious. I wanted people to either see my point or tell me (politely) that I'm wrong.
It burns me up that we think we need to parade our values around town and make everybody assymilate. I can't stand it when religious people try that crap on me.
Trolling indeed.
We are currently working with Chinese officials to get our full service restored to the millions of Chinese users who depend on Google every day.
Corporate Communications, Google Inc.
Jamyang
see also: Web 'proxies' frustrate censorship efforts
Then what are you talking about?
"The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
Right. Multiple tests using our testing system ( http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/filtering/china/test ) have indicated that Altavista.com is inaccessible from China.
This kind of subservient attitude does nothing good for a country.
Ok, the "subservient attitude" you speak of in Asian countries is a byproduct of the Asian stereotype broadcasted throughout your country. (assuming you live in America). That stereotype labels Asians as submissive, docile people. However, as I am of Asian descent myself, I can state that most of the Asians you will encounter today in their native homelands, for example the Chinese, are, for the most part, either aggresive, fast-paced, witty, or a combination of all three.
That's why y'all got colonized by Europe in the 19th century.
Against their will, that is. The "subservient attitude" is not entirely to blame for European colonization in Asian countries; rather, it was concepts of Social Darwinism and the "White Man's Burden" ideals popular during the time. Note that this idea was definetly not well accepted by the Filipinos (as depicted by the war between America and the Phillipines after the Spanish-American war), China's Communist and Cultural Revolution (in which almost all peoples of non-Chinese descent were banished from the country, and "foreign" buildings such as churchs were destroyed). Also, China's Boxer Rebellion is a perfect example to disprove the "submissive, docile" stereotype.
Who are you referring to by the word "y'all"? The Asiatic peoples as a whole? If so, the "y'all got colonized by the Europeans..." statement is partially incorrect. While India, Vietnam, Laos, the Phillipines, and a throng of other Asian countries were technically colonized, China, Thailand, and especially Japan, were not.
The US actually isn't working all that hard to combat bigotry - it's been detaining Arab-looking men more or less at random. And as for how much damage Nazi punks will do in Germany - not much, for the simple reason German police don't put up with this nonsense. If you're a Nazi, they come and throw you in prison. Very simple.
I'm the stranger...posting to
My Wife saw this this morning. The main point was the Cache. If I can remember I'll post the link later (maybe there's someone around who'd enjoy translating the whole thing and typing it up).
Perhaps I'm mis-informed. I was simply going off what nagarjun said. If I'm wrong, I'm glad I'm wrong. I hate to see a people incapable of freedom (like nagarjun basically said the Asians were). If the Asians prefer freedom, more power to them, I say.
There are reasons why democracy does not work nearly as well as capitalism.
-- David D. Friedman
Well, this is a classic example of how stupid Communism and Socialism (the abolition of private property) are. They just simply move societies towards an absolute dictatorship, aka Nazism (Totalitarianism) that implements Fascism (government control of corporate markets) to get it's way. It's got it's own little name too... Left-wing extremism. Click this link to see an economic chart and see where China stands: Economic-Political spectrum
#Secret Windows Source Code, in MS C% - if (uptime >= "24 hours") then bsod() else print "Windows License Violation!"
China needs to face reality. Any country willing to run over it's people with tanks because they dared to speak out for freedom deserves whatever comes it's way.
China has not even come close to improving its stance on human rights due to the old, power hungry, selfish, dictators who are running it.
I cannot believe that the US has given China anything approaching "most favored nation" trade status given China's utter refusal to treat it's people like human beings. No wonder I have known so many Chinese immigrants who were happy to get out of there since the goverment is so totalitarian and evil.
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
China reportedly blocks Google access
Canada r0cks the hizouse!!
So I was checking my logs and a spider for some new Chinese Google lookalike site, OpenFind, is crawling my site voraciously. It's not shy and retiring like the GoogleBot but instead likes to swallow a lot of resources. Reminds me of the nasty AltaVista bot in its heyday.
Anyway, knowing the way business gets done in China, perhaps someone in the party-military-industrial complex with serious guanxi got Google firewalled to make a nice cosy space for this OpenFind in the Chinese marketplace?
Da Blog
The fact that you don't understand the difference between censorship and copyright infringement and protection of minors (even against themselves) shows clearly you are one of the many people that will not and can not defend effectively their rights.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
China is communist (big news), China censors its people (more big news), so why is it a surprise that they would try to control the internet.
Everyone that does business with them will eventually be asked to giveup something.
We need to know about what Boeing is giving up in order to sell 747s to the PRC.
Yahoo had to cut a deal and allow itself to be censored.
What did GM giveup to get all their tool line made in China?
Cisco sold them the routers that facillitates the censorship. What did they giveup and why did the Clinton Administration allow it.
I read somewhere that there is only 4 internet pipelines in and out of the PRC all controlled by the government's computer communes.
Thousands of government workers monitoring usage and censoring sites. If I'm wrong, show me where I can find out the truth about this. Thanks.
Supra et Ultra
http://www.bignews.org/20020903.txt
chip_hk:Google is reacting
DIY Slashback
Zi Xiang Mao Dun
Could it be, as the DOT TK Rep speculated...that because they offer free ccTLD domains and within just a few months from the time they introduced the service, they had registered 250,000 domains, 60,000 of them by Chinese citizens (more than double the number of domains for Chinese citizens than the country has registered for its own .CN domains)...that .tk represented some sort of Internet territorial threat?
If anyone thinks they know why the Chinese blocked all .tk domains, or can find out, I would be really interested to hear.
Their site is http://www.dot.tk.
Anyway, here is an excerpt from the Press Release. The whole release can be found at:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020625/phtu016_1.html
Largest Country in the World Blocks Internet Access to Websites Of One of the Smallest Countries in the World,
Announces Dot TK
The islands of Tokelau, with just 1500 inhabitants, consisting of three little atolls in the South Pacific Ocean face a ban from the largest country in the world: the Peoples Republic of China.
China's Data Communication Bureau, residing at the Ministry of Information Industry, has blocked access to all websites bearing a .TK domain name. Many years ago, the International Standard Organization assigned Tokelau their .TK extension, just as .DE is assigned to Germany and .JP to Japan. Tokelau accepts registrations from all over the world. That's why the registry is larger than countries like Sweden or Russia.
Currently there are more then 220,000 websites containing a .TK domain name, which are not reachable by any Chinese individual or company.
The reason why the Data Communication Bureau blocked access to the .TK websites is unknown. Taloha tried to contact the Ministry of Information Industry several times in the last couple of weeks, but without success. The content displayed on the 60,000 Chinese websites, registered with a .TK domain name, varies from search engines to vacation-photo collections.
More information about Dot TK and the Islands of Tokelau can be found on www.dot.tk.
We should just set up some millions of proxies so the Chinese government has the choice of
accepting it or completly cut China off the Internet maybe then will the Chinese people realize what is hapening. Need a proxy?:
http://141.40.144.104:5189/
As I live in China I was rather surprised; a couple days ago, to find that I could not access Google. Originally I thought that it was a problem on Googles end, until I saw an article in the South China Morning Post (HK English newspaper). According the SCMP the Chinese government turned off access to Google because they wanted to prevent access to anti-Jiang Zemin websties. Apparently the Chinese government wants to spruce up its image for the 16th party congress, and what better way than by preventing access to websites that point out the corruption and general stupidity of the communist party. Now since I live in China I think that this is a wonderful idea, and I complement the Chinese on their intelligent decision. I also think the Jiang Zemin is a fantastic leader, who is not only extremely intelligent, but also very witty and good-looking.
anyone who can hack the great firewall, let's do it.
that will be fun hey..