Slashdot Mirror
Xbox Runs X, KDE, Gnome, StarOffice and Tuxracer
freax writes "Today in the the xbox-linux mailinglist:
I'm typing this into KMail using a USB keybaord (and a USB mouse) in front of the TV connected to the Xbox. ... and even StarOffice works quite fine. TuxRacer also runs (look at the new screenhots on the website), but only with one frame per second.
Check out screenshots here."
So the question now is whether you can run the X-Box emulator on the result.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
I have an X-box, and NO games, just the DVD kit. (I entered the taco bell challenge 600 times!!) Now I can do something other than play DVD's on it!
--fetch daddy's blue fright wig, i must be handsome when i release my rage
Does this mean someone will win get the $200,000 ?
I can spend $200 on a poor-quality, non-upgradable (and non-waranteed) Pentium III instead of building my own for about the same amount.
Samba, FTP, POP, NNTP, Squid, NFS, Grid engine.
:)
Y'know, all those services that an ISP or similar might find handy in a *big* server farm.
Hey, how's about a Beowulf of those.
Deleted
All this without the Anal Leakage (TM) that is the Xbox gamepad.
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
I'm typing this into KMail using a USB keybaord
Looks like it's a buggy USB keybaord.
Check out this picture.
"this is the beginning of microsoft's end."
Because everyone knows that Tux Racer is going to be the catalyst for change.
Oh, and GLTron.
This is the true beginning of a low cost, easy to use system. If the boot up totally doesn't destroy the system, for $200 you can get yourself a machine that:
This won't be perfection or anything as silly as that, but I'm curious to see where it goes. Great work to the team.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
Is there any real advantage to doing this (graphics maybe??) on an X-box as opposed to a real pc or is just something to do when youre bored?
I've never understood what all the fuss is about with Linux on the X-Box. Apart from being a fun hack, is there any point to this?
Is that an Amiga monitor?
if we went and did that, now would it. Where's the fun in that?
Deleted
There are significant between loose [dictionary.com]
significant what? significance is maybe what you had intended to type? perhaps, you wanted to type "There are significant differences..". perhaps it was just a human mistake. regardless, what you intended to type, and what appeared on the slashdot posting were two entirely diferent things causing significant disruption in the overall karma of the slashdot world.
ah, well, back to browsing.
OR a dreamcast, toaster, hottub.
YOUR point?
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Hehe... I've been to enough computer shows to know that a box (be it Mac/PC/X-Box) sat next to a TV/monitor showing an interesting demo is just not something you can believe!
We all know that crap is king
Give us dirty laundry!
How do we know you're not just a Microsoft employee posing as a /. user?
Dude, you need to take your camera back to whereever you bought it. There's some really fucking annoying penguin stuck to the lens that's being included in every shot.
I can't believe you haven't noticed it.
Invoicing, Time Tracking, Reporting
so it's the same as a normal pc with a geforce then
**boom boom**
Then he would have enough money to buy a beowulf cluster consisting of 1001 of them (Including the own he currently owns ;-) )
This expensive cluster would probably run a modified version of Tux Racer at a decent number of FPS.
How far are we from a Linux distribution for the Xbox that can be booted from CD? I think that would be great for a web server farm (or a home web server).
I think this is more of a lesson to MSFT about what precautions you need to make for a DRM box to really work!
I'll bet you're one of those kinds of people that sees "Save $100 off product Foo!" and will rush out and buy Foo, even though you don't need one, just to "save" the hundred bucks.
Ryan T. Sammartino
"Ancora imparo"
I wonder whether your German is any better than their English.
and I can finger my microwave
That is undoubtedly the most disturbing thing I've ever heard in my life.
To all those people who think buying an Xbox and running Linux is good because it causes Microsoft to loose money, your better off not buying an Xbox. Microsoft has already taken a loss on those nice shiny new Xboxes that you see in the stores. By buying them you are helping Microsoft recoup $200. If you don't buy the Xbox then Microsoft is out an additional $200.
And if you want to keep Microsoft out of the console market your better off buying a Playstation 2 and some games. Building up Sony's market share is more likely to keep Microsoft from making an Xbox2 then Linux Xbox. Of course , Sony's business practices aren't much better then Microsoft, but that is going way off topic.
What we really need to get running on this is xmame. Nearly 3500 arcade games on your living room television set!
Now there's $200 worth of entertainment!
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
No, actually buying the system and not buying games costs Microsoft more money than if you were to not buy the Xbox at all.
You see, Microsoft is selling the Xbox at about 150 dollars below the cost of manufacturing it. They make up that money by selling games at a profit price, but if you buy the Xbox and then don't buy their games, they have lost money. Thus, people buying Xboxes and then using them as Desktop systems with Linux ends up costing Microsoft in the long run.
QED
I drink to prepare for a fight; tonight I'm very prepared. -Soda Popinksi
Well, with Sonic Blue's solution, you're paying for the software, the pre-hacked linux kernel, and the support. You pay through the nose for it, but you get a lot. You can plug it in and think of it as a music appliance, not a computer playing mp3's. Ask anyone who coughed up $1200 for an empeg (the central is designed by the same group) if they think it was worth the price...
That being said, an xBox hacked to be a home audio server would be a nice toy and a great way for a geek to get extra value out of it when they already want it for games.
xbox linux is ILLEGAL software. The developers have broken microsofts encryption to run their own ILLEGAL unlicenced software. This is a violation of the DMCA, and you could be SUED.
Who gives a flying fuck anyway? BTW, Microsoft seems to be passive about 'hack the box' issues so far(from the net hack for Halo to Linux)...maybe they want xbox to get some more attention in the news?
If Microsoft wanted to, they would have sent the Bill Gates Swat Team and stormed their ass down already.
All you Anti-MS zealots have your fun picking on MS, but don't destroy the game market in the process.
"Derp de derp."
... we used to buy game machines to play games, not turn them into half-assed computers.
"Derp de derp."
But you still need the modchip ?!
And it could even work without the DOJ step. Linux inherits the earth because Linux is just better :).
Okay crucify me...I didn't know they were Germans. I would have cut them more slack and not posted that had I known.
You know, people have been saying this since at least the Intellivision. Try #1 Try #2 (And something for the 2600 is niggling at my brain... there might have been something for that, too.)
After 20+ years of this line... I'll believe it when I see it. Not one second sooner. And with Microsoft fighting this tooth and nail... frankly, the Dreamcast had a much better shot here (what with most or all of them able to run custom CD-ROMs with no modifications to the unit), and it didn't happen either.
That's just rediculous!
no sig.
Check out screenshots here.
The monitor looks a lot like a Commodore 1902A. I think they're just faking us out with some Commodore-64 graphics!
I can't verify it's NOT on an X-Box, but, here's a bit of info that would help in the persuit of the truth.
I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
The means is upon us at last to fairly compare the power of the two systems - the ultimate benchmark, Tux Racer!! Can the PS2 Linux system beat 1 FPS?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
at this rate, we'll only have to buy up a shade over 26 million of these puppies to eat up Microsoft's $4 billion cash reserve. The Empire is about to fall!
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
Heh. That's interesting math:
Manufacturing cost = $350 (not sure if that's true, but we'll run with it just for giggles)
MSRP = $200
When an XBOX is sold, MS makes MSRP - a very small commission for the store it's sold at. (Stores make nearly no money on Game consoles.)
So MS is out $150.
When the item is out, MS is out $350.
So, as near as I can tell, $350 > $150, therefore MS loses more money when an XBOX isn't sold.
Now, your argument is that people should buy XBOXs and not buy games for them. (In other words, people should pay for nothing) You're assuming that when you sell that XBOX, nothing will be there to replace it. WRONG. MS will not only make another XBOX in it's place to sell, but it'll be cheaper. Manufacturing cost is based on the total money spent to make these units divided by how many are sold. It takes a lot of money to get the factory started and so one. Once that's done, it just keeps churning out consoles. As time goes buy, the price goes down. (Not including that CPUS, RAM, etc get cheaper over time...) Eventually, MS will sell these at a profit. (assuming Sony/Nintendo don't undercut them to death.)
Now let's get back to the pscychology of buying a unit and not buying games with it: You're screwing yourself out of $200 that way. MS's systems sold # goes up, giving people more reason to buy one. They're going to buy it and play games for it. Meanwhile, you either have an expensive doorstop, or a shitty Linux machine. Woop-de-doo. 10 million XBOXes would have to be sold for MS to lose 1.5 bill. They have 40. Can you honestly tell me common sense wouldn't prevail with 10 million+ people involved?
If you don't like MS, don't buy their products. 'Sticking it to them' is not likely to do anything but good for them.
Frankly, I'm sick of all these "I hate MS" posts. If you get so zealous about attacking MS, not only will you never be taken seriously, but you'll also give them the ability to say "were just misunderstood." Pick your battles. Fight MS for making you buy Windows, don't fight MS for making a good game machine.
"Derp de derp."
"How the hell are folks going to destroy the game market by messing with MS? "
Buying a bunch of systems and not buying games? Can you honestly tell me that screwing game companies is the right away to approach an attack on MS?
Think about it. That's why there was so much hooplah over the release of the PS2. It was $200 in the hole on a per unit basis as well. Sony needed 4 games per unit sold, and at best they got 1. The PS2's launch titles sucked so ppl watched DVD's on it instead.
If that kind of shit continues, the game market will have the same breakdown it did in the Atari days. It doesn't take much for a game company to say "well just make another Quake killer, we can't risk doing something original."
Call me nutso if you like, but if you hurt small game companies in this little spat, then you're no better than MS.
"Derp de derp."
People have said this in other forms, but no one's summed it up so far.
When it comes down to it, why do most people use Windows? Not because it's simple or Linux is complex - most computer users couldn't install or manage Windows configurations, so the added complexity of Linux wouldn't make much of a difference if the defaults (a la Mandrake) were any good. Not because it's more familiar (Start Panel, anyone?), or because it runs their productivity apps (most people can be set up with OpenOffice and not notice a difference).
People use Windows because it's got the games. As commentators have said time and time again, the computer industry is driven by gamers. No one buys a Pentium 4 2GHz computer with a GeForce 4 Ti because they want to run Office, eh? Geeks resort to dual-booting, Linux for most tasks and Windows for games, while most users simply use what works best - Windows for everything.
Now, with Xbox, there's an opportunity. Games, by their very nature, defy multitasking. When you're playing a game, you're not doing anything else, period, and you expect real-time performance from your computer. No file/print serving in the background, no preemptive multitasking meaning that your game is only running half as fast as it could. The computer should be doing nothing else but running a game. When you put a game into a console, it loads up that game, isn't running anything else in the background, and thus can (theoretically) give you better performance than any desktop with a full-blown OS can.
So, suppose you had an Xbox with Linux installed. A user decides they want to type a document, or surf the web; they boot up Linux, and can open Moz or OO. Then, they decide they want to use a game. They shut down Linux, put the game CD/DVD in the Xbox, and load it up.
Essentially, users have the benefits of a dual-boot situation without the downsides. Games are fully integrated, having every piece of software you need to run them built-in to the disc; the fact that it uses DirectX behind the scenes is irrelevant. And when you're not gaming, you load up Linux, which requires almost no configuration because it's for a standard PC configuration; the Xbox, in fact, may soon be the most ubiquitous PC configuration (plurality) anywhere.
Users are happy because they get a $200 computer that they can use equally well with a TV, HDTV, or computer monitor; and due to its compact nature, could easily be transported from room to room if need be. Microsoft is happy because people are buying Xboxes, which means they buy games; so MS still ends up making a profit, because most people who buy the Xbox are going to get at least one game (which puts MS almost at break-even).
"Microsoft's stock price declines, the dominant market share is weakened, and they have to behave like a good corporate citizen"
Stock price and market share are not the same thing. Market share is how many people have XBOXes and how many people have GameCubes. Stock price is a measure of investor confidence. Since MS is so big, XBOX could be a flop and hardly rock their boat, stock-wise.
"kinda dig that scenario. Not like Xbox is going to precipitate this, but.... "
The only harm you'd do is to the game companies trying to sell games. Not cool. Not cool at all.
"Derp de derp."
"the game market can go to hell for all I care. "
Bad call. The success of the PC is largely in part due to the success of the game market.
"This is a cheap box, one that I can use for any number of things including linux development. I can throw it in the corner and have a mp3 server... "
If that's what you want to use it for, have fun. If you want to use it to 'screw MS', then you're not doing anybody any good.
"I don't buy things for games. There's no reason to. "
I'd correct that by saying "There's no reason for YOU to [buy things for games]." Which is a fair statement that I'd have no problem with.
"Derp de derp."
"How would this destroy the *CONSOLE* game market?
How does it help the market? "We'll push MS out so that only Sony and Nintendo will compete"? Yeah, thanks. Brilliant.
"Derp de derp."
Have you ever heard of mplayer? xine? xanim? avifile? xmms? Most or all of these come with any recent distrobution.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Yes, because the PS2-linux system supports accelerated 3D graphics. The XBox might too, in a while.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
The question, of course, being which evil empire you'd rather support less.
This assumes that all the X-Box units have already been made and are stored in a warehouse somewhere.
The more likely scenario is that Microsoft built a few 1000 extra units and builds more as stock is sold. So let's assume 1000 units are sitting unsold in a warehouse. That is $350,000 in stock. Nobody buying another X-Box therefore costs Microsoft $350,000. But if 3000 people buy an X-Box and Microsoft achieves a best case scenario of having no stock left then Microsoft loses $450,000.
The 1000 units in stock number is a fictional guess, but the thought process illustrates that your logic is flawed.
> The only harm you'd do is to the game companies
> trying to sell games. Not cool. Not cool at all.
No, screw em hard and screw em now. Any company that gets in bed with M$ gets screwed into the ground eventually. Best they get burned now while they still have other markets. They can take a hit to their stock price, what they can't take is allowing M$ to run Nintendo & Sony out and then be forced to assume the position, leaving M$ the only game company.
Democrat delenda est
Loose != Lose
Look it up!
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
okay, fine:
a.) XBOX, being PC based, is easy to develop for. Therefore you can get started cheaper than with Nintendo or Sony.
b.) More choices = more competition. That's always good.
c.) Sony's arrogant as all get out. Trust me when I say: You'd rather have MS in the ring than Sony. Sony doesn't give a rat's ass about developers.
d.) MS added a new twist to the console arena with the built in hard drive and ethernet port. What did Sony add to the PS2? Nothing of interest. The PS2 is a harder-to-program-for minor update to the PS1. They don't care to do anything but milk money where they can.
e.) I don't think you're going to pay any attention to what I'm saying so I'm gonna stop here.
"Derp de derp."
American, Austrian, German, English, and other places too.
Yes, you need some kind of modchip / BIOS replacement in order to get any unsigned executable to run on the box, including Linux.
It seems I've been told this a 1000 times...
It says something like 'runs with slight modifications'. *MEEEEP!*
Wrong answer.
200K still waiting for anyone who dares to go for it.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I see a lot of people justifying the worth of this port. Some people say it's "sticking it to Microsoft". Others say it creates well needed negative publicity for DRM. But I'm not seeing a lot of people talking about the obvious benefit: MORE VALUE FOR THE CONSUMER!
Imagine a CD from AOL with Mozilla on it. The only instructions required are "Insert this disc into your X-Box". The CD connects to AOL automatically. You enter a unique code (perhaps printed on the CD sleeve) and the login process is completed. In under a minute you're sending and receiving email and browsing the web. Text entry could be via an on-screen "virtual keyboard" or a USB keyboard with an appropriate dongle.
Don't like the ISP idea? How about a Logitech USB keyboard bundled with a complete office suite on an X-Box disc. Automatic bootstrap straight into OpenOffice. Files are saved to the conveniently included hard disk. Logitech can bundle appropriate dongles to connect their USB keyboard and a USB printer to the Microsoft-USB ports. Home users who can't afford (or don't want) a PC can still reap the benefits of a word processor at home.
This is a huge opportunity for companies to to reach a wider audience. Linux is irrelevant. What is relevant is APPLICATIONS and a closed well-defined system that can run them. If you only think of an X-Box as a games console then you're not going to be convinced. If you think of it as a cheap computer with a hard disk and broadband connection that millions of people have in their homes, then you'll understand that Linux/X-Box really is important.
I have to deal with MS software and servers all day long and they suck. However while i do not like what MS intentions with xbox are(ie dominate yet a another market) i do think the xbox is a fantastic little box. If you are running linux on it just to say you can do it great. But dont think that it is hurting them, your are doing for more to help MS then Bill could ever hope to buy. Free publicity! The best way to fight MS is to deny them existance. How many of these are going to get converted world wide a few hundred maby a 1000 tops. Bill spends that kinda of money on breakfest. Stop kidding your self people you are helpping him not hurtung him.
Linux modi 2.6.26-2-parisc
It's probably a DivX file. Besides, mplayer and Xine can play almost anything nowadays. If your Linux box has good video accelleration, it can be done with no load on your CPU. Plays back just as nicely (sometimes better) as Windows with most codecs.
Now let's get back to the pscychology of buying a unit and not buying games with it: You're screwing yourself out of $200 that way.
What? I don't get it -- I can think of a number of reasons to buy the X-Box without games -- and none of them involve "screwing over MS":
DVD Playback
DiVX Playback
Emulators
Homebrew Games
I think that I can get $200 worth of use out of the X-Box without even buying one game. If the functionality provided by the X-Box meets your needs and is worth the $200, then go for it. The games you buy at Toys R Us and Wal-Mart aren't the only things that make it useful.
dennis
> When you're playing a game, you're not doing anything else, period, and you expect real-time performance from your computer.
:-) since it is adjacent to my consoles.
For most games & gamers, yes, I would agree - the game IS the computer.
However I can provide a few examples where that's not 100% correct.
When I was playing UO, I always had UO Assist, ICQ, and UO Map running. Other guilds (usually PK ones) ran IRC in the background. Why? Because the game didn't provide the proper tools to automate a lot of tedious activity / communication.
In D2X, I usually alt-tab out to RuneWizard (to check rune words), to diabloii.net (to check stats on items), to ChippyDips skill calc, and/or to my spreadsheet template of my character's stats/skills.
Another example: Playing a (single player) rpg/shooter, and I'm stuck for the past 30 mins. I tried everything I can think of, but it hasn't helped. Alt-Tab out to google or gamefaqs and hit the walkthru to get a hint. I know it would of been a huge PITA to quit the game, load the browser, check the info, then restart the game.
Granted, I'm a power-gamer, but I can't be the only one, who finds it extremely frustrated when I can't alt-tab out of a game on my computer.
Now for a console, there is no need to switch to another app in the middle of game, since you can't anyways. However, that doesn't mean you don't want access to other info when you are playing the game! What I do instead is use my main computer to load up the FAQs
i.e. I want to try out some of the interesting cheat codes in GTA3. Pause the game, look at the computer beside me, then go back to the game.
My $0.03
Cheers
Sheesh, someone always posts this on an X-box article (this is what, the 4th time in this particular one?)...
MS already made the X-boxes. They've already lost the money. You buy an X-box, you're reducing their UNSOLD INVENTORY - you're giving them money back.
MS will not go bankrupt because you buy their unsold boxes. Please get that into your head.
Yay!! Common sense prevailed!!
"Derp de derp."
Analogy is flawed.
A more accurate version is this:
You've made thousands of sticks at a cost of $1.50, and they're sitting in your warehouse. If no one buys them, you've lost $1.50 per stick. But if people buy them, you're only losing $0.50 per stick.
It's called unsold inventory.
They use this type of monitor because it has a composite connection.
It also has a separated-video connection.