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Vint Cerf Talks About The "Interplanetary Internet"
Uncle Humph1 writes "There's an interesting article at NewsForge by Robin (Roblimo)Miller about Vint Cerf giving a presentation to NOVALUG about the Interplanetary Internet and having lunch with them afterward. An interesting read. One of the quotables by Vint with regard to security reads 'We're building in security from end to end,' he says, 'because we don't need headlines saying, '15-year-old takes over Mars.'" Here is some more information about the interplanetary Internet.
Of course this brings up the obvious question... When do we get to start instant messaging all the little green men? :) ( No, I don't mean the RIAA here... )
And so we go, on with our lives
We know the truth, but prefer lies
Lies are simple, simple is bliss
so now i can truly say they'll have broadband on mars before i get it.
Well, accoring to this one documentary I saw, TCP/IP is already in use on at least one other planet.
Who would control Mars? Even with a fast and stable net security and communication system in place who would claim Mars? The first person there? I say give it to the 15 year olds since i'm almost 15 :)
-=Errors always defy logic.=-
'because we don't need headlines saying, '15-year-old takes over Mars
All your martian base is belong to us
Interplanetary Internet means intergalactic porn. The triple breasted whore of eroticon six will have her poor web server slashdoted.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
damn that's some fast moderation
So now its going to be an 17 year old...
Congrads... Reminds me of anti-counterfieting of currency... This bill should take them at least 18 months to duplicate.... 3 months later you start to see the fakes.
Tournament Management Online &
Shouldn't *Al Gore* be the one in charge of the expansion of the Internet since he invented the thing in the first place?
C:\>ping www.marsrover.co.mars
:)
Pinging marsrover.co.mars [68.179.57.159] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 68.179.57.159: bytes=32 time=12100ms TTL=4300
Reply from 68.179.57.159: bytes=32 time=12000ms TTL=4300
Reply from 68.179.57.159: bytes=32 time=11000ms TTL=4300
Reply from 68.179.57.159: bytes=32 time=12000ms TTL=4300
Ping statistics for 68.179.57.159:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 11000ms, Maximum = 12100ms, Average = 11700ms
Won't be playing UT with these guys anytime soon...
Geesh, you doorknobs -- a simple search on Slashdot for Vint Cerf turns up a dup for this.
Don't you dullards think twice before posting an article?
ummm just thinka bout it, they make a news post, and then look to sort out the dumbasses... what do you thikn they do, post news then go walk away?
-=Errors always defy logic.=-
So this is the protocol they used in Independence Day? And I've always wondered why the aliens were using TCP/IP.
Wherever you go, there you are!
Come on guys, Worldcom?
taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
Just wait till the RIAA goes inter-galactic.
We just have to make sure the URL is kept secret from all slashdot readers. The latency between planets is already long enough.
If slashdot did link to it...it would be like having a server running on a dial-up.
Mars will instantly be slashdotted.
*ducks*
Instead of worrying about an "Interplanetary Internet" how about if Vint Cerf spends some time cleaning up ICANN and making it less of a corrupt, scumbag organization.
"...and we're collaborating with Worldcom because we want headlines saying:
Profits From Interplanetary Internet Exceed Wildest Expectations
"Hot Stock! Buy Now!" Say Analysts
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
Because 15 year old kids are all about taking over Mars! That's nonsense; I was once a fifteen year old. All I cared about was getting the newest issue of Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition (feat. Tyra Banks) or later on, Maxim. And some privacy. :)
Now we can just /. all the approaching asteroids.
"Mars needs IP" or "IP on Mars"?
"Trademarks are the heraldry of the new feudalism."
If there really IS intelligent life on other planets, I suppose it won't last long after being confronted with a broadband connection full of the products of Earth's LACK of intelligent life...
-- This Sig is currently under construction
You think the lag time to third world countries is bad? Try third world PLANETS.
Whenever I play quake against guys from Mars, its always the same: they just stand there, and I frag 'em. They must have a latency of several minutes, at least! Other planets are even worse. I once waited all night just to download a 1k faq on Plutonian mining operations, and I can't even COUNT how many connections I've lost completely with servers on Jupiter.
Who could hack those anyway? Of course, it would take forever. Plus, as we all know (having seen Independence Day), servers in space run MacOS (otherwise how would the guy have easily uploaded a virus with his iMAC), which is a bit difficult to hack anyway.
I don't think they have anything to worry about. Except Uranus. I hear they're using unpatched IIS servers there.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
Vint apparently is still trying to find some justification for moving to IPv6. Oh yes, with inter-gallactic internet we'll surely run out of the valid address space available in IPv4. I'm finally convinced IPv6 is the answer.
Sonar internet link to sub oceanic inhabitants. fish.net?
We need subspace Ethernet. That would let us play UT with our Martian neighbors. I wonder if communicating via gravity would be possible. Gravitational waves may travel only at the speed of light, but the effect of gravity is instantaneous. If the Sun were to disappear right now, we wouldn't see it disappear for another 8 minutes, but the Earth's orbit would change immediately.
Do they have affirmative action on Mars?
This was already discussed here this past May. Thanks for posting it again -- we'll look forward to seeing it appear again in December!
One of the main problems with interplanetary internetworking is the speed of light, since we would be using some form of RF for the actual transmissions. (Blinking lights works disturbingly well, as long as a line of sight is maintained, since at the frequencies of visible light, you can transmit data at more than a terabit per second.)
Don't expect to be able to play Quake across the galactic sea, as you have mulit-minute ping times.
In addition, Telnet seems right out.
The most probable form of interplanetary networking, barring successful use of Bell's Theorem (it has to do with quantum physics, and it is an observed behavior that (A) two particles in contact have spins which eventually synchronize and (B) once split apart, no matter how far apart the particles are, the spins are still in perfect sync), is going to be a store-and-forward systm, like email.
You make requests for pages, a smart terrestrial gateway will spider the links appropiately, hopefully remove the bloody ads and spyware (since one must make the probabilisticly correct assumption we're going to have windows-dependants on the receiving end)... and in about 1.1-1.5t (where t is the period of time it takes for light to get between where you are Earth and back) you get your content.
This system makes bookmarking pages more important, since it could gather pages based on a pre-defined list (like checking out what's on CNN, BBC, Slashdot, etc. etc..)
I used to be someone else. Now I'm someone better.
Real life is underrated.
This is more a mechanism to get a packet to pay its own way across a network. You can see why Worldcom, and its employee, Mr. Cerf, would be interested in this.
For all he invented the internet, Vint, whether making proposals of this kind or wielding a knife in the draughty halls of ICANN, shows no signs of putting its well-being over that of his employer.
--
E_NOSIG
Its gonna be uranus.
1: Write free software.
2: ?
3: Make interplanetary internet.
4: Profit!
As anyone who has ever played a U.S. Game on battle.net can attest, Koreans are blamed (justification is another story) for "lagging down the game."
This will take the pressure of the Koreans, first with the Lunarians, and then Martians, who will make the Lunarians look speedy.
I can't just see it now.
Diablo Player 1: Man, those fucking martians, always lagging down the game and spamming those "Give me items messages"... why don't they play with their own people. Diablo Player 2: (several minutes later) HELP ME PLEEEZ... NEED SOJ Diablo Player 1: Fucking Martians.
If that's so, then i'll have to wait until they discovery planet baldspreadpussy.
15-year-old: "I can't crack Mars, but--Muahahaha! All your routers ar3 B3L0NG 2 ME!!!!!!!11"
This is why UUCP can never die. It's perfect for a network like this. You just write up a new transfer protocol with extra-long timeouts and heavy duplication of data to minimize resends and bang! The existing UUCP works between earth and mars.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
It seems that having any kind of WWW-like setup between planets (given the speed of light barrier) would be kind of pointless, or at least inefficient. More likely, large data repositories would be stored in duplicate form on each planet. They'd be updated by bulk dump every so often (depending on how much bandwidth is available), but local requests would be handled locally.
/. here on Earth, but then there'd be Marsdot, Jupidot, Plutodot, etc. each catering to its own local community.
Now the problem is, who could afford to do this? Only large organizations, companies, and governments, probably. Also, sites that depend on relatively low-latency interaction (like Slashdot) rather than simple reference libraries (like dictionary.com) might not have duplicates. More likely, you'd end up with functionally-identical but content-different sites... for example, we'd still have
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
agreed... the next thing you know were going to find ourselves involved in intergalactic lawsuits that state
"the lawsuit is based upon the stated copyright violation of mars orbital satelites 3,4, and 5. said satelites, whos orbital speed and trajectory are an exact duplicate of several earth-orbital satelites are violating the artistic integrity of said earth satelites. under intergalactic law, no two orbital patterns can be duplicated without the express permission of the originating orbital satelite."
this of course would be followed by several pay-as-you-go networks, where for a small fee each satelite would have the right to use the orbital pattern of previous satelites, assuming that all royalties have been duly paid.
--Stupidity should be as painful as Windows.
-- "We're only gonna die from our own arrogance, that's why we might as well take our time..." -Bad Religion
It's quite a simple problem, really:
RFC20063: IP-over-Ansible.
char sig[120] = "\0"
You mean there was nothing more news worthy to discuss on that day?
come on fhqwhgads
You must mean the date for the link for more information on Interplanetary IP, yeah I thought the same thing.
High-ranking members of the RIAA were vaporized today after seeking legal action based on the DMCA against a group of interstellar music executives from the planet Vanubia.
When the Vanubians were asked how they could justify such harsh action, the president of the Vanubian music industry explained that he would have preferred a gentler course of action but that other companies on his planet had already obtain the legal patents on all non-violent dispute responses.
In other news, Microsoft has canceled the high-level meetings with the Vanubians that were scheduled to take place this spring to discuss licensing concerns.
Finally, practical application of this "ansible" thing the military developed.
The only surefire protection against Microsoft infections is abstinence. - The Onion
It looks like we'll soon be able to FTP the University of Mars...
Vint Cerf also was the keynote speaker at the International Summit for Young Technology Leaders that I attended in Austin, TX in July. He gave what sounds like pretty much the same speech. He envisioned an interplanetary internet system and the need for satellites and interplanetary research equipment to be equipped with TCP/IP capabilities, perferrably IPv6, which he also spoke of the future importance of. He also offered some insight into his own job vitality and said despite the collapse of WorldCom, his division will probably be spared.
Maybe someday, we can /. a server on another planet. Oh what fun!
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
ET Ping Home. ET Ping Home.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
. . . the MIME types suggested in RFC1437?
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1437.html
Not 120 seconds...his example numbers were more like 12 seconds. (1 s = 1000 ms).
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
FTL Travel is probably never going to be a reality - meaning all those green alien women will just have to pine away for Captain K's hot man love.
However, FTL Communications are probably possible, so we can hope that our overweight, velour wearing descendents might at least talk dirty with some green alien women.
Of course, based on today's internet, those green alien women would probably be fat, balding green alien men and green alien FBI agents on green alien sting missions against the sexually deviant human race.
Unfortunately, this proposed FTL method requires you to ship the quantum-coupled-er...thingies from place to place FIRST, which means we'd have to exchange ambassadors with the green aliens FIRST... meaning Captain K is back in the shag house, big time.
And then, the quantum communications might be a bit, well, odd, as you might recieve cryptic messages like this:
Reply from 68.179.57.159: qubits = 256 95% confidence -11fs<time<-4fs, measured from point of transmission, 95% confidence -14fs<time<-6fs, measured from point of reception.
Which is a reply to the following command:
Pinging hotbabes.co.vulcan [68.179.57.159] with 256 qubits of data.
Which you had not yet actually run. Anyone want to suggest changes to TCP/IP that would allow you to handle when acks arrived before the message they acknowledge has been sent? Just asking.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
Yeah, I can't wait until my inbox is crammed full of "All-natural proven method to add inches to your tentacles!" porno spam.
GMD
watch this
At
By
About
To
About
With
I think this sentence is suffering from a severe bout of prepositional indigestion.
Security is nice, but hopefully they will be doing something so some script kiddie doesn't DDOS a craft into Safe Mode.
It wouldn't take 600 seconds... From this table, it shows Mars being about 1.524 AU from the Sun. This equates to about 227,940,000 km from the Sun, vs. 149,600,000 km for the Earth. The difference is 78,340,000 km. At 300,000 km per second, light would travel that distance in about 261 seconds. This is about 4.3 minutes, not the ten minutes indicated by the 600 second figure.
I guess the birds will need tiny spacesuits and rocket packs to make it back and forth.
Incoming interstellar hen!
Blog,Twitter
the tighter they grip - the more interplanetary internet warez sites will slip through their fingers.
You think the lag time to third world countries is bad? Try third world PLANETS.
...)
Don't look now, but we ARE the third world. (Mars, Venus,
And the 1.524 minus 1.000 AU figure is a lower bound on the distance of Mars.
At a minimum it's 0.524 AU. The maximum would be 2.524 AU (when the earth and mars are on opposite sides of the sun) which is 5 times greater than your estimate (for a whopping 21.5 minutes). Of course, good luck getting your radio signal through Sol. Perhaps we have to install some repeaters somewhere (which would make for further delays). Anybody have that Pathagorean theorem handy??
My father is a blogger.
- There are no people on Mars yet. We haven't figured out how to get them there (in terms of ensuring their health and safety; in terms of how we're going to bring them back; in terms of financing the project). There's no timetable for sending people to Mars, so one can neither say "we'd better prepare for this" nor "we're nowhere near needing to prepare for this."
- Less than one percent of the people on this planet have Internet access, yet we're talking about plugging in a place where man probably won't set foot in the next 50 years?
I'm not saying it's not worth discussing the theoretical implications of an interplanetary Internet, especially since it probably won't be built in the lifetime of pioneers like Vint Cerf, and then we'll be saying "if only we could go back and ask Cerf what he thought about this." However, I think we need to note that for the forseeable future, this is just theory.You make some good practical points, but you forgot the most important element:
CACHING
Better keep those cache expiration intervals high.
Well I hope Vint can pull something good off for WorldCom, or MCI or whatever they are going to call it these days. My stock sucks! (and my severence package sucked too) :-)
Kevin
Just wanted to point that out.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
They tried that (designed for security from the ground up) with the Luna InfoNet, but then Trent got physical access and with the help of Johnny Johnny, managed to crash the boards, letting in a swarms of other Players and AIs into the system.
Of course, at the time it looked like Ralf was already there, hiding, but one can't be too sure about that.
(see The Long Run by Daniel Keys Moran)
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
DDOS
I can see it now, Someone on IRC states that "All you're base..." And gets pinf flodded into oblivion from whe whole galaxy.
Great - Now Mars will be slashdotted in 5 minutes! Just because nobody's living there doesn't mean the machines won't get overloaded.....
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
The Interplanetary Internet is pretty much pie in the sky, right now. There are a couple of guys at JPL who have been working on the more focused project of sending an e-mail to Mars, where it would be answered by a natural language auto-responder. Check out their site at Dear Mars - JPL. The site links to a natural language system that answers questions about Mars, built by MIT.
Brings new meaning to an old BAD movie
I usually just lurk, but this man made such an impression on me at an engineering presentation that I have very strong feelings about what he says. He may have made some revolutionary contributions, but from what I heard he seems to only consider the implications as an afterthought. Basically, his presentation was 'My vision for the future of the internet' with an emphasis on IPv4 (this is just earlier this year, mind you), which was largely fluff. What struck me what he went on for some time about how everything in the future will have an ip (how original), and started talking about how great it will be to be able to find your socks based on the location of their ip. No more missing socks apparently, although this neglected to address quite a few logistics questions. Then he threw out a scenario where a man would get caught by his wife going to a bar when he said he was working late because his socks had an ip and she could tell the it was being tied into the network from the bar instead of work. Okay, so the finer points aside, in his envisioned future where a man's wife can track him to the bar by the ip in his socks isn't it equally likely that she can track him to his other lover's apartment after meeting at that bar? Doesn't logic follow that the government could also track his socks any time they wanted if these alleged socks are so unsecure that his wife can find him at his lover's? These were the things going through MY mind, but good old Vint kept on rattling off more fluff without the smile once dopping off his face or discussing possible privacy issues that might pop up in his 'future.'
Roblimo was published again!
and we really don't want to see headlines like:
"15-year-old takes over Uranus"
There are no MCSEs on Mars to reboot computers that crash.
Maybe this guy is!
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
All this information from such a wonderful company as WorldCom. Maybe they should focus on their company more and less on space.
I can see that a lot of people are missing the point of the project.
this is not "hey, I'm on mars, let me browse the 'net" stuff. this is "okay. we need to drop 50 or so data gathering probes, which need to send their info back to a central broadcast point, which will send its info to a satellite, which will send it back to earth" stuff. The reason they're developing open and standard data protocols for this should be obvious - if you craft it from scratch (as they had been doing previously) it's REALLY expensive. I found "the Interplanetery Internet" to be a bit of a misleading title myself at first. but considering that the internet was itself a research tool first and formost, this is only because of prejudices already in my head.
You see, without that little doohicky, the universe stops.
http://propheteer.org
Since this is way into the future, storage space may not become an issue, each planet (or moon) system could have a repository mirror of every other page. And throughout the day the system would continue to update its mirror of every page within. This doesn't work of course with dynamic content or email, but for mostly static pages, it might be the fastest way to serve content.
-
Now Bob Zubrin will cite unlimited bandwidth as a reason to go to mars.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
Now echolon can spy on other planets too, and the russians ! yay !
WCOM Restates Extent Of Network Coverage
CLINTON, Miss., August 8, 2183. WorldCom, Inc. today announced that after its ongoing internal review of its network coverage, it has discovered an additional 237 billion light years of improperly reported network reach. Information previously made available to customers and analysts indicated that WorldCom had full fibre optic network coverage between the United States and over 118 other planetary systems outside of our own galaxy. On November 4, 2182, WorldCom announced that network coverage in actual fact only extended across the Atlantic Ocean.
WooHoo! I can't wait!
Soon, we'll be downloading pictures of women with blue skin, or 3 breasts.
-Ed
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Ed Wedig
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... that says "IP on Everything".
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.