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Discarded AT&T Microwave Bunkers For Sale
InitZero writes "American Tower is selling nearly 2000 old AT&T Long Line microwave locations that are no longer needed thanks to fiber. These towers -- spaced about 50 miles in every direction -- and their associated bunkers were designed to withstand World War III. The average location (find one near you) has two acres of land, 1,800 square feet worth of bunker and a tower of 200 feet. Some locations still have their hardware (60KW generator, microwave feedlines, equipment racks, feed horns, etc.) All this for an average price of just $25,000. If you're a ham radio operator, building a data center or just looking for a place to put your wireless access point, these locations look awesome."
No replies yet, and it's slashdotted already?!?
This sounds pretty cool. Who here has an extra $25,000 lying around?
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
In many parts of the US, it gets very cold in the winter. The cold is even worse if you're working on a tower - they tend to be in high, exposed places due to their nature. This means more wind, lower temperatures, etc. Legend has it that tower crew would sometimes crawl into the microwave horns for a few seconds/minutes to warm up (for the same reasons you use a microwave to heat your dinner). That was all well and good, until one day a tech fell asleep in the warm, cozy horn.
oops.
I was an Inspector on these in Northern Calif. I monitored the construction for a private firm. Concrete pours and steel, etc.
They are hell-for-stout, no doubt. You could wipe out everything above ground in the US, and still get a dial tone. Most are in remote locations, naturally, and include fuel storage tanks (propane) and blast shielding. Just the ticket for anyone looking for the ultimate private bomb shelter.
It appears these bunkers will NOT protect you from the fury of Slashdot.
Assuming there was a nuclear holocaust/World War III, how would a 500 ft microwave tower resist being blown down by a nuclear blast? Even if there is the bunker, the transmission effectiveness will be effectively zero without the tower.
I'm the Devil the Windows users warned you about.
I have fond memories of spending a strange summer night in the vicinity of one of these situated on a mountain pass when I was in high school. I'm just glad my fiends didn't climb the tower durring the gathering thundersorm.
1800 square feet? Larger then many studio apartments. Heck larger then most studio apartments.
I say setup a decent 'net connection and become a digital hermit. (e-hermit?)
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
AT LAST! a location for my echelon spoofing site. ;)
Just raise the taxes on crack.
Someone please mod the parent into oblivion. I believe that is the active site list, not the surplus site list.
I've been inside of several of them and they're simply awesome and must have cost a fortune to build and maintain. They have living quarters and water tanks. The equipment mostly ran off of banks of single cell (2 volt) batteries that were kept charged by utility power and generator. They used klystron transmitters I understand. Another cold war relic made obsolete I guess..but I can't help but be nostalgic for just a bit.. Can you?
Mark Foster has another really nice Long Lines site that includes a table that lists many Long Lines facilites in many states, describes the equipment installed there and has photos of some of the facilities. He also provides the technical specifications for the construction of these sites, as well as photos from tour he took of a still-operating one.
is measured in lb/sq. inch. The reason the blast is so damaging to buildings is because of wall size magnifies the force to a few tons of pressure on the side of the wall. The towers if you notice, are open, thin bars that present little surface area for the blast to contact. What is exposed is well anchored.
-
Guess I'm not the only one to dream of owning a nuke-resistant bunker.
Here's the Google cache of the site map to salivate over...
Good news if you're back east or in the Bay Area, bad news otherwise.
Say, wonder if Mrs. Moody would mind running a home daycare out of one of these?
No Longer a Menace to Society.
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According to the page that is linked in the summary http://www.drgibson.com/towers/ It mentions:
:)
The buildings supporting the towers were hardened against a nuclear blast, and some of them in high-danger areas were underground. The towers themselves were engineered to withstand all but a close (within 5 miles) blast. The microwave horns were covered with a protective shield to keep out not only the elements, but also radioactive fallout. The buildings were shielded with copper to protect the equipment against the Electromagnetic Pulse associated with a nuclear explosion. Foot-thick concrete walls protected the vital electronics and people inside the base installations of these towers. Thick copper grounds went deep into the bedrock beneath each tower. Fallout showers, backup generators, sleeping facilities all existed to keep the network up in times of war.
So while the equipment itself is likely hardened, the building is shielded.. It doesn't say how much shielding, etc there is however
Just fill the microwave horn with popcorn and fire-up that 60kW generator.
What's the point behind having bunkers here which can withstand nuclear attacks?
The obvious answer would be that they wanted to ensure that the communications infrastructure would survive, but that doesn't make sense -- the towers would be destroyed quite easily, and without the towers, all the equipment protected in the bunkers would be useless anyway.
Am I missing something here?
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
It seems AT&T had a considerable investment in long distance buried coaxial cable. Apparently there was a pair of these cable laid a few miles away from here as a contractor was going through a few years back digging them back up and recovering them.
As I recall from the local paper's article the cables were probably 4 to 6 inches in diameter and were then encased in lead. I also recall that they were buried several feet deep, at least deeper than water lines and regular phone cable gets buried around here.
From my youth I recall an AT&T Long Lines bunker a few miles south of US 36 on US 75 north of Topeka, KS. I believe these cables went through there as they were on an east/west run through northern Kansas. Where the ultimate terminating points were would be a good exercise.
Many old microwave sites are still standing around these parts. The tower lights and painting are still maintained. It's interesting that it apparently cost more to disassemble them than to leave them stand.
"Insanity is doing the same thing over again expecting a different result."
Am I the only one thinking of the possibility of buying 2 within signal distance of each other, one in a city where broadband is actually affordable, and one out in the boonies or small cities where at best people get 53K dialup and using it to set up a broadband ISP? $50,000 initial investment + permits is pretty steep still, though.
Hell, or get paid for offering an alternative route for congested hops.
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
> Oh, and imagine a nationwide Beowulf cluster of these.
Actually, it might be a good way to set up a disaster-resistant beowulf cluster. One node per bunker, interconnect via the towers. Keep those protein-folding analyses running even after the species is extinct...
Well, at least it would give the alien archaeologists something interesting to puzzle over. And introduce them to the idea of beowulf clusters, so the joke could infect their civilization as well.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
World War II involved the dropping of "The Bomb". The destructive force of the atomic bomb completely destroyed entire cities.
World War III (for those not in the know, it hasn't started yet...) will probably involve much more powerful weapons than even the atomic bomb. Chances are this structure won't be able to withstand the force of this kind of weaponry.
And if it does still stand after a bomb, chances are no one in your 50 mile area will be alive to hear your ham radio station.
To quote Strong Bad, "too much of a good thing is an awesome thing. But too much of an awesome thing is ... umm ... really, really dumb."
This is almost too much of an awesome thing. But it's awesome nonetheless.
Heck, 2 acres is a decent plot of land for a house. Plus you got a generator! How can you lose? Use the tower to put an access point up and you can have wireless all over your land, and charge neighbors for access :-)
There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
A friend who owns a paging company just bought one of these. I tagged along during the negotiation and purchase. They are indeed, as a previous poster put it, "hell for stout." The scale of the tower, building and microwave cones makes the whole thing seem like a toy. It's just that weird. The towers are huge, this one is a 100 ft free-standing, 30 ft on a side IIRC with 25 foot tall microwave cones at the peak and associated waveguide down into the concrete buildings. This is a smaller installation, but still has huge power service and infrastructure, neat-o VW diesel inline 6 backup generator and enormous battery supply (the size of a truck or so), later added hardline to the top, it was a hell of a deal (more so considering how difficult towers are to get up these days).
What really boggles my mind is the BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars that went into building these things in the 60's. They are truly incredible, inside and out. Someone decided that there WOULD be long distance (and there was).
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Now I and my friends can LARP the userfriendly.org story arc where they moved into a missile silo!
Yes!
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
I have been trying since before there were even replies in the comments section and I have yet to see anything more then the splash page sans images (via Google Cache). Anyone have any idea where these towers are? Are there any in Texas? The wife and I are looking for a country house and this would make a hell of a start. ;)
Why would the power need to be turned up? Signals are signals right? We don't turn the power up on our Cat 5 because we're talk to Slashdot and eBay at the same time...
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
I can see the alien's posting now...
+4 Hrarfug
Kruig chxofp lnyuvtezna en BEOWULF CLUSTER boj plorndles? %&)
http://www.xemu.org/~mxemu/NationalSiteList.xls
Seems like a perfect opportunity for amateur radio clubs to line up to purchase new facilities. In addition, these things seem great for building out a high-bandwidth microwave infrastructure to give hams VOIP.
Great place for an APRS node, ATV repeater, or even just a regular old 2m or 440 repeater.
Intelligent Life on Earth
Back in the olden days of satellite communications, all satellites operated on the "C" band. The bane of C band was "TI". TI stood for terrestrial interference...and these towers were the culprits! As a secondary service (these towers were the primary service), satellites were limited to very low powers (5-10 watts), so C band dishes had to be very large to pick up such feeble signals from space. Now that these are being decommissioned, maybe, just maybe, C band's potential can finally be realized. I can think of many uses of this slice of 2-4 Ghz spectrum...though the Govt. is probably already salivating at the prospect of another spectrum auction.
Why would you get cancer? They can take a nuclear blast. I doubt the microwave is going to bug anyone in the bunker.
If you have a hankering for a wee plot o' land and can telecommute, 2 acres and a 200' radio mast would be a bargain for $25k.
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/cooked.htm
Enjoy
Somebody posted an XLS document listing all their sites, both active and inactive. I graphed the data out and listed the geographical location of the inactive sites. Go to http://aaron.cyberfreakout.com/inactivebell.htm to view it.
I would imagine that they're trying to sell the inactive ones...
Selling a 3 Silo, 65k sq/ft 1 Mile Nuke Rated site, Near Denver... a Tour of a site 5 miles away Missle Silo Tour This site is the same design except that it hasn't been vandalized, has power, and is not flooded (except silo's) Comes with complete Plans Serious Inquiries Only misslesilo@lasers.org Must be sold before end of September, 2002 also 15k sq/ft underground storage at another hardened facility $2.50/ sqft.
another site listed it as -80db for signals above 10khz
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
It's not a micorwave relay site, that's just part of it!
It was to be the seat of government for a post WWIII UK.
The Bunker Website here has loads of info.
Nice fact, all the defenses were designed to keep the general public out in times of strife and the one time it was fully stocked and ready to be buttoned up.... during our miners strike in the 1980's
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Read "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" by Rhodes. The hard part is getting ahold of weapons grade uranium or plutonium. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Iran or Libya had atomic bombs.
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Since AT&T/Bell used to be a monopoly, did the government help pay for and construct these sites? If so, how does a private company end up selling these?
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Maybe some of that fiber should be run to whatever machine is hosting the website.
M@
Krispy Cream is people
I've heard similar stories of sailors standing watch on the ship's tower and keeping warm in the RADAR wash.
--mike
AT&T Long Lines Places and Routes contains a list of Maps, Diagrams and Lists relating to the AT&T Long Line Bunkers.
My high-school has a tower on that list. WOW. There is also one right around the corner from my parents. Pretty cool. However, this looks like the active list as my high school is at Row # 7350 in the Excel spreadsheet and the story says there are 2000 for sale.
--Mike
sPh
on where you're delivering it. Iran and Libya (and Israel) already have missiles that can reach most of the mid-east (and in the case of Libya, Europe). They also have aircraft that can carry the weapons. They may not have intercontinental capability, but then they don't particularly need it.
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Hey I got a diesel VW car and a diesel generator at my country house, both have been running for YEARS with nothing more then a regular oil change. Diesel engines are built for that crap, to basically run forever with minimal maintance (hence they have no spark plugs and don't need tune ups like crappy gas powered gensets).
This sounds even better than a Missile Silo
First off, it's cheaper.
Secondly, these are more conveniently located
Lastly, it looks like there's a lot more of these than missile silos.
For $25k, it's a cheap way to get a couple of acres with some improvments.
Often in Error, Never in Doubt.
True Story - a guy at work has a small piece of steel embedded just above his eyelid, but below his eyebrow. It's been in there a few days and the wound isn't healing up as it should. He was working with a framing hammer and a chunk of nail or hammer head flew back at him (remember kids, always wear safety glasses!). I told him that I had some powerful magnets back in my cubicle (NIB rare earth magnets, the most fun money can buy, check here if you want some).
He held two of the magnets (product #2, see above site) up near his eyelid and that little piece of steel pulled that loose skin out about an inch! The guy yelped and immediately pulled the magnet away. Of course, a bunch of people heard the yelp and came to see what it was, and he had to repeat the stunt a few times to make everybody happy.
Tugging a visible chunk of steel is one thing, but I seriously doubt that you could pull the hemoglobin out of your body, or at least any significant portion of it, even if they did say so on ST:TNG.
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
I stated my question poorly. What I meant was that like the railroads, private companies were given a lot of assistance by the government. In many cased entire projects are funded with public money.Many under govenment contract. If this is the case with any of these hardened structures, shouldn't the public get somthing back?
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
I took the Excel list of all of the sites and pushed it into a data mapping program based on latitude and longitude. The following results I thought odd:
- There are 15 in the middle of the Atlantic
- There are 5 in Mauritania
- There's even one in northern Mali
Talk about your far-reaching communications network!
- Freed
"Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love." -Turkish Proverb
Given that wind resistance for a given surface area increases exponentially (I think... been a long time since physics class), that 1000mph figure is astounding.
Also this: "Above ground structure (microwave and troposcatter antennas) require at least two thirds of the structure to be below grade to prevent tilting or rotation". Does that mean these 200ft towers are rooted 400ft deep?
"Luck is the residue of design" --Branch Rickey
Or for that matter a shipping container on a ship works just fine and leaves no return address.
Yup, when a *NIX site gets the /. effect it goes away, but differently. The *NIX site goes when the bandwidth is totally soaked and you just can't contact the victim anymore. NT sites fail sooner because they can still deliver up error pages just fine, but the system is overloaded.
Democrat delenda est
After expressing interest in two sites, I received this email response:
u blic%20Reports/Marketing/AvailableSitesList.xls
From: Ross Elder
To: 'John Hoffman'
Subject: RE: Sites of interest
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:44:03 -0400
Please note that the message posted yesterday on Slash Dot is incorrect.
American Tower Corporation has only a limited number of Surplus towers for
sale that can be accessed by clicking "Sites For Sale" on our home page.
These are the only towers that are for sale. Please also note that these
Surplus sites are sold on a strictly "as is-where is", all cash basis.
If the site you are inquiring about is not on the "Sites For Sale" list,
then it is not for sale.
If you are interested in a Surplus site, please contact me via email.
If you are having difficulty accessing our website, please try again later
as we were experiencing technical difficulties earlier today.
Thanks,
Ross Elder
Senior VP/Development
American Tower Corporation
The actual list of available sites can be downloaded at:
http://www.americantower.com/acweb/ATCSDMAREP02/P
These towers ran with main beam ERP's (effective radiated powers) in the tens of thousands of watts. C band satellite transponders run 5-10 (yes that's five to ten) watts. The satellites were about 30,000 miles away as the crow flies compared to one of these towers being maybe 10-20 miles away. Trust me, there's enough RF scatter from one of these towers to make C band satellite reception almost impossible even if you're 180 degrees off the main beam.
Is the original poster sure it is ATT selling these? When I worked for Lucent, (right after it was spun off) someone told me a story about how ATT had sold all their microwave towers several years before because of the fiber network being in place. The person that sold them caught nine kinds of hell (and supposedly lost her job) because ATT was about to outfit them with cell station equipment.
I think ATT sold them a while ago, but the company that bought them has to decided to sell them on the open market.
Ummm, Jon, aren't you supposed to be dead...? - Otter(3800)