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Microsoft To Make Wireless Networking Hardware
traskjd writes "Microsoft are looking to increase their strength in the hardware market with wireless and conventional networking hardware according to this story on cnet. Microsoft has always been slow at moving into the hardware market... could they be testing the waters for making things like switches and routers in the future? Lets hope not..." There's also a Reuters article. There was a story last year that mentioned Microsoft was working on Win-WiFi - 802.11b hardware that exported some of the processing to the CPU in much the same manner as a winmodem, and thus was cheaper to produce. These stories don't mention anything about that, so probably these are conventional 802.11b devices.
Microsoft...entering...wireless...market...
too...many...security...jokes...
head...exploding...
Furture Windows Msg:
"Sorry, you cannot use Explorer.exe at this time. The CPU's resources are being used to serve the WinWiFi router."
"Old man yells at systemd"
but usually Microsoft hardware isn't bad at all. I like their USB mice quite a bit, and their natural ergonomic keyboard is pretty cool. So as far as their hardware record, they've had a good reputation (IMHO).
I'd predict that their wireless networking hardware may turn up to be a good quality product.
Microsoft said that the software will make it painless for users of its hardware products to install a wireless network and connect a variety of devices.
See, there's nothing to worry about. Everything will be all right. Life will be good and I can go home early every night from now on....
Blue Sky Of Death. Those aren't clouds, they're core dumps and stack traces. I can see Fatal Exception right there next to the cloud that looks like Bill Gates giving you the middle finger.
mp3's are only for those with bad memories
but winmodems that used the CPU were a bloody disaster. I never saw one that worked right.
Please, whoever makes these new things, leave the CPU alone.
If you think wireless networking is easy as looking for the chalk marks now, just wait until MS style "security" becomes the standard!
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
could they be testing the waters for making things like switches and routers in the future? Lets hope not.
What is up with all the negative articles on MS Hardware?
Take a look at your mouse! Have you ever used an MS Joystick?
Sure, lots of you have complaints with MS's OS's. Some of you hate the whole "Major Corportation" thing.
But, damnit, MS MAKES GOOD HARDWARE!
I've used MS Mice, and MS Sidewinders for YEARS and they still work GREAT!
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
I don't trust anything wireless. Not even a wireless mouse. Sorry, I just like having cords... it makes me feel more secure. Microsoft + wireless is NOT a good idea. However, it might be a great way to show Joe Sixpack that MS products are not secure, when he gets hacked by the script kiddie across the street.
Happy New Year, it's 1984!
When you buy a MS Wireless Router, it comes packed in powdered chalk.
I'm sure Microsoft's software will work better with it's own hardware - they'll see to it.
As they push into the hardware market, their offerings may become preferred for their functionality. You may have noticed this simplicity with the Microsoft IntelliMouse and Internet Keyboard. Plug them in and they are detected and function properly - drivers are pre-installed mostly.
If their hardware is easier to configure, more people may buy it, ultimately convincing Microsoft to produce their own line of computers. Because all parts are built and tested within the company, people will say "It Just Works"
But then there will be people complaining that Microsoft is just money grubbing bastards and want all the profits for themselves...
That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
Do you guys think this might tie in with the whole Palladium platform?
Not to be a troll or anything, but how different is this from Apple and AirPort?
M$ just wants to see if they can get a piece of the WI-FI pie
I'd only be concerned if they decide to come up with their own flavor of 802.11 that only works with the latest version of the OS and forces you to upgrade to be able to keep using it.
The moment you install a windows machine with the network the could do that already anyhow..
On the other side, I can imagine the little LCD screen saying "Packet recieved, please reboot to continue."
And once in a while a LCD-Gray screen of death..
(hmm.. or where the routers the ones with the blinking leds.. oh well.. they can do "please reboot in morse")
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!
I just can't believe Microsoft will be making hardware for people who warchalk..
They must be thieves!
For those who may be humor impaired, this post was tongue in cheek
If cowboy neal were building them in his garage out of tin cans we wouldn't have to worry about him ruining the future of wireless communication... So the answer to your question is no.
New bookmarks:p ://security.microsoft.com/routers
http://nouters.windowsupdate.com
htt
New Licensing:
Your router subscription has expired. Would you like to pay another $79 dollars for the next 12 months?
New Animation:
Paperclip: Hi! I see your trying to access the internet. Can I help you?
New Monitoring:
We have deteted a P2P application running on your network. Your router has been disabled. Please call 1-800-RIAA-Pal to correct this.
New Dialog boxes:
You are using an inferior browser. Are you SURE you want to do this? [Yes] [No]
oh sure, but mouses and keyboards usualy don't have big security-consequenses.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!
Remember the SoftCard, a Z80 card that let you run CP/M on an Apple II?
Microsoft mice have a great reputation and they're actually pretty innovative about them.
Given Palladium, one should expect MS to start making networking hardware.
by producing hardware that refuses entry from any non-certified applications and hardware, they further secure their world (aka, pockets) within the constraints of their Palladium (money-making) scheme.
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If Apple cripples 802.11 in Air Port, they cripple their devices and you simply buy another vendor's product. However, MS will put the other vendors out of business.
It will probably be the first router, WiFi device that is not compatible with *ix, Mac, etc.
Probably. You'd be amazed at how many of the big hardware companies outsource the manufacturing of hardware and then stick their own badge on it. Often you can see the exact same device with diffent brand names, but that usually only happens with the smaller companies.
Even if they don't do that, it will be off-the-shell components that make it. I don't see MS building a PCB and IC fabrication facility, or designing the PCB track layout.
So in essence, this article is about MS striking a contract to rebadge someone elses products. You do get their support and reseller infrastructure from that (for better or worse). The stuff should be pretty good quality, putting aside all the MS bashing, these companies do live and die based on reputations, so it should be decent.
I wonder if it will ship with an insecure default config? That would be a turnup for MS, if they get that aspect right for once!
You will get a Clippy with every router, proposing you like "I notice that you are trying to add v.w.x.y, shall I also add a.b.c.d for you?". You answer no, but somehow, the configuration seems to be changed, but you cannot exactly see how...
...
Also, you will get switches that you only edit via switchedit, a regedit decendant.
Plus of course, all the bugs you can eat, as usual
Of course, don't forget to add some 64 Mb of memory in your switch. Errm, yes that is per port, of course...
And in addition to that, if you don't pay your license fees, your routers will cease to function after exactly one year!
But wait, there is more! You can run a wordprocessor from your switches (upgrade required), and we even provided some games free of charge.
Thanks, but no thanks - I'll stay with Cisco...
Mark
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I went to disagree with you, but sadly, you are right in a way.
You cannot, however, give full credit to Microsoft for that. A fair share of the credit must indeed go to Apple for releasing AirPort - the first computer manufacturer to make it an option in all of their offerings. The iBook was first in September 1999, closely followed by the PowerMac G4 (AGP Graphics) the iMac (Slot Loading) and completing the lineup in Feb. 2000 with the PowerBook (FireWire). The Xserve doesn't offer AirPort, but then, it's a rackmount server.
Like many things in the computer industry (I sense strong opposition just ahead) Apple made it happen, Microsoft made it big.
That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
Aren't all M$ hardware activities just low (zero?) cost ways of getting the name "Microsoft" written in as many places to do with computers as possible?
Nothing to see here. Move along.
I wonder who they'll steal the design from for this product.
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
> Not to be a troll or anything, but how different is this from Apple and AirPort?
I have an Airport card and it works perfectly with a SMC barricade and other common wireless routers. We're just looking at Microsoft's past history of altering standards to work in incompatible ways and speculating that they could do the same with wireless standards. Hopefully, this will not be true, but history has been known to repeat itself.
> Hopefully, this will not be true, but history has been known to repeat itself.
Replying to my own post, look at your standard PC keyboard and tell me how Microsoft changed the standard there, oh, 7 years ago. I wonder if keyboard manufacturers have to pay royalties or copyright fees to use the windows logo on their keys.
What do you expect on a pro-linux site when there's an MS article? About 99% of the comments are just jabs at MSFT that have been done hundreds of times by Linux zealots. Nope, that routine never gets old around here.
As for MS hardware, I am most impressed with the IntelliMouse. I just wish(is there one already?) MS made drivers where you could have mouse "profiles". Currently, the thumb buttons only work for IE, where they would be great as undo/redo buttons in Photoshop, PSP, etc, or set 'em to what you like. I remember doing some tweak to turn the middle button(wheel button) on my Logitech mouse into a double-click action.
As for their MS keyboard, I just got one in my cubicle, and wonder why there's a "stop" button(I'm assuming for IE). Escape, located less than an inch away from it functions just fine as "Stop". Back and Forward are redundant since you can just Alt+leftarrow & Alt+rightarrow. Hopefully with a bit of searching I can make the buttons do whatever I want, and I'll just relabel them.
Sorry about the self-disclaimer, but I wanted to clarify.
I don't mean Apple invented everything they "made happen" - only that they prepared the way for the popularity of many innovations.
GUI, Multimedia, networking, USB, FireWire, AirPort...
--
Now back to your regularly scheduled ranting.
That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
Microsoft need UPnP to succeed if Messenger is to realise its full potential. They probably need it for other planned projects too. I imagine they're entering the market in order to drive adoption of these standards more quickly.
I have an SMC Barricade 7004AWBR. I've been waiting an age for the firmware update that finally provides me with UPnP. It hasn't come. I rather suspect it may never come. For all the natty little plastic boxes, I honestly don't think the networking people are used to the speed of the consumer market. Microsoft certainly is, and I can see any routers it might produce being updated a lot faster than many of the current offerings.
Cheers,
Ian
This is just Microsoft's way of linking all the Borg Drones (aka Windows PCs) into the hive mind ^_^
If you suddenly notice IE going to sites other than the one you wanted, don't worry: Your Drone's just been consulting with all the other Drones, and the consensus was you wanted to visit Microsoft.com rather than linux.org.
On the plus side, this means new technologies will be assimilated much easier, and your PC will be able to repair itself using the power of the group mind.
Maran
Usually when some manufacturer OEMs something, you can find the noname OEM version elsewhere if you look.
Have *YOU* ever seen a mouse that looks like the Intellimouse Explorer? If MS just OEM-brands other people's hardware, then why were Microsoft mice the only all-surface-optical (As opposed to the old Sun grid-optical) mice for quite some time until Agilent's optical mouse reference chipset/lens design came out?
If MS is rebranding their hardware, show me proof. Show me WHO they're rebranding other than saying, "oh, I think they're rebranding someone". It's usually pretty easy/obvious due to the hardware being physically identical to a few others on the market. (All those cheapie opticals are all the same, but MS and Logitch mice are all unique)
Good examples of OEMing that's easy to find:
Palm III/IBM Workpad. (I think some Workpads were Palm V clones too) - Same shape, the Workpads happened to be black instead of grey.
Compaq printers - These are obviously rebranded Lexmarks.
AT&T printers - This was MANY years ago, but their dot-matrix printers were either rebranded OKI or Epson printers, can't remember.
I normally dislike MS, but their input devices division is the only portion where all the crap they spew about innovating is true. They DID come up with the wheel idea. (Which I passed off as a gimmick until I played with one at work - Now I can't survive w/o the wheel.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
This isn't a mouse or a "natural keyboard" we're talking about here. This is stuff which requires actual drivers. Complicated drivers.
Keep something in mind: when Microsoft released its previous generation of hardware (mice, keyboards, joysticks, etc.) they weren't thinking about Linux at the time. They felt confident that they owned the PC space. Nowadays, even though they still have the monopoly more or less intact, they do know that Linux is looking to break into that space, and has a better than fair chance of doing so.
Microsoft needs to de-commoditize the PC platform.
The best way to de-commoditize the PC platform is to turn it into the Windows PC Platform. Palladium is a big part of this, to be sure. Whatcha wanna bet that these new Win-Fi(tm) devices are going to tie into the Palladium infrastructure for security? And of course their chipsets will be full of Innovative Microsoft Patented Technology. Try to write a Linux driver... get smacked by the DMCA.
Over the last year or two, some of the WinModem chipset makers have started to warm up to Linux -- by releasing specs or by writing actual drivers. You can be sure that if Microsoft is the chipset maker, the binary-only, Windows-only drivers will come directly out of Redmond.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
Well, just look at what happens when you type in "Go to hell" in Google...
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Does Microsoft properly document their hardware, or is the documentation, "How to install the Windows drivers."
I'd never in a month of Sundays expect them to furnish Linux drivers, though maybe *BSD drivers in two weeks of Sundays. But does Microsoft properly document their hardware so the community can write its own drivers? I know people use MS keyboards and mice with Linux, but those had well entrenched standards. What about getting the extra bells and whistles working?
How about shipping the documentation with a "You may not use this documentation to develop GPL-licensed drivers!" clause?
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
And if you want to 'share' a broadband uplink I'm almost sure they will figure out a way to embed licence control and DRM. Which is really the point anyway, isn't it?
Microsoft has always been slow at moving into the hardware market... could they be testing the waters for making things like switches and routers in the future?
If Microsoft has been slow at entering into a market, it is because they wait for technology to be established, and then they improve on that technology. I don't think that they will be making switches and routers, because they can't really create an improved version of those products that consumers will notice.
On the other hand, wireless technology is starting to become noticed by consumers and Microsoft wants people to associate their name with quality. Of course, it's 90% marketing and 10% actual quality. Look at the Microsoft Natural Keyboard, or the line of Microsoft mice. Sure, they didn't make them right away; they waited for their competitors to make the mistakes that they could then improve upon.
Actually, this strategy could be used to describe pretty much all of their products. They're not the first to do something. Microsoft is very good at reinventing ideas and selling them to consumers.
Just my opinion.
www.timcoleman.com is a total waste of your time. Never go there.
michael wrote:
"...could they be testing the waters for making things like switches and routers in the future?"
Uhh. Could they be seeing that (a) wireless is the Next Big Thing and (b) this is the perfect time to introduce DRM where others are hesitant to do so?
This is a no-brainer given their history.
My
Limekiller
Comment removed based on user account deletion
MS have gone on record as saying they want to secure home wireless networks, their solution for this is going to be PEAP, yet another variation on EAP (Extensible Authentication Protocol).
This is a PIA, already we have the certificate based EAP-TLS (supported in XP & CE4.0), EAP-MD5, the Cisco LEAP (supported everywhere but only with a Cisco client card), 802.1x - now a standard but not supported in it's vanilla format anywhere much yet, etc.
Guess what the cross platform support will be for PEAP ?
I'm just glad Linksys and Dlink exist, because it's going to be difficult for MS to displace them in the market, and dominate with a non-standard product.
These may also have a variation on uPnP, but I don't see how that will fit in with the security focus.
Palladuim is miles off, look for that in the updated Christmas '03 product range.
Sine they use Cisco wlan equipment themselves on their corporate campus, in fact they have one of the largest wlan delpoyments ever. Maybe this is targeted at the home market? I would guess so based on the market analysis provided, they give Linksys a lead in the wlan space so it has to be the home market as Cisco is the leader in the corporate space.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
""There was a story last year that mentioned Microsoft was working on Win-WiFi - 802.11b hardware that exported some of the processing to the CPU in much the same manner as a winmodem, and thus was cheaper to produce.""
To make use of a modern CPU on a desktop is really hard unless you compile or game. An even slower windows would be hard to do without deliberatly toss in loops into it. Intel and Microsoft lives on the upgradecycle and without it they would both be much smaller since you wouldnt buy a new computer every year, just new software like games etc. Right now i cant think of a single application that i use that can take advantage of my current 650 Mhz even. When i compile something bigger i do it over night.
The only application that demands something faster than todays 2 Ghz is poorly written games. My solution would be to write them better but some people tends to think throwing more hardware on fautly code is an excellent solution.
Microsoft needs to use all the cpu cycles it can and still perform good in benchmarks. This way of loading the processor with other tasks better done in hardware than in software fits their and Intel perfectly. Intel needs somthing that demands faster CPUs and Microsoft need new hardware that ships with their OS.
HTTP/1.1 400
I rented it twice then realized it'd be better to just buy it.
Great, now the embedded web server in my MS Access Point(TM) will be able to spread Nimda and Code Red to everyone within my WAP's range.
This should be fun.
-ted
1. Don't try to upgrade a machine running in a remote area, ie. without a telephone or net access
2. Try moving your windows code over to another platform
3. 64 bit? What's a bit? Oh yeah... microserf: well, we can sorta kinda do 64 bit!
4. Try running windows on some really huge hardware, ie. something not x86 or emulating it
5. inverse of 4, ie. a pda or some such thing, without having to purchase an expensive xp embedded license or some such nonsense
6. try stripping windows xp down to nothing but what you need to setup a masquerading router, running on a 486
7. try administering 20 machines remotely, over a 56k modem
8. try all of the above while spending less than $50
9. Microsoft didn't disclose all of the windows api's? awww... too bad...
10. windows is quickly becoming an anti-consumer operating system, instead of enabling users, it's going to intentionally limit users, doesn't sound too appealing to me...
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
and you will usually see the light, ie why Microsoft does project X or Y. In this case, IGnatius T Foobar has the same thoghts as I. Smaller, cheaper, faster, and more secure systems are turning up all over the place and they are not running Windows. By getting into the communications stream they are attempting to isolate those devices and isolated devices will give way to connected devices.
Why do you think Microsoft is dragging their feet with Bluetooth? It's not all about it being not ready, that's never stopped them before. It's because Bluetooth works best with low power devices and Windows does not "do" low power devices. When was the last time you saw a Windows device running off 2 AAA batteries?
The original Halloween document stated that they needed to control the protocols and this is not too far from it. It's what transmits/receives the protocols....
This is dangerous folks, IMHO. Win-Fi costs can be quite low to the user because Microsoft is going to absorb the development costs using monopoly money. If every machine ships with Win-Fi onboard, with MS security protocols, our full fledged WiFi cards will be left out unless we pay the extra $$ for another access point too.
It's dangerous if it works. IMHO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Apparantly, they opened their specs for a while, but closed them quickly when they realized that all the clones being made sucked.
It's been a long time.
Oh great, MS will push their CPU-based Win-WiFi devices, get the bundled with all the makers overwhich they exert control or pressure, and Linux will have all the grief we've had with WinModems, all over again in the networking world. This is a powerful anti-competitive move by MS, if they truly are winmodem-ish.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
Isn't MicroSoft developing it's flavor of 802.11 called 802.11x
It was suppose to ship with XP but they had other things to work on in XP.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
I've seen the hardware. The home wireless network kit is a PC card, a USB adapter, an a router with 4-port switch (kind of like the Linksys BEFW11S4). The router is VERY small, but it's all really just standard stuff. The industrial design is very good and the software for it is pretty. It's not proprietary in any way, and actually looked really nice.
How long before we have a Slashdot story about how it's Microsoft's fault when someone steals credit card numbers from a business sending them unencrypted over a wide-open network.
At least now we only have to read mainstream news stories about how it's the fault of the guy with the chalk.
There isn't any real reason to export the hardware's work to the CPU. Other than tying the win-WiFi's operation to Windows, exclusively.
Microsoft is making this card because no one else will -- the market doesn't want it.
But if MS makes it preferable, and cheaper, to hook the WWF to their products, then MS owns the WiFi market. Which means innovation in the wireless market is controlled by MS. And they've shown endlessly what they do when they own markets.
MS innovate? Nope, they copy -- and the real question is, if MS didn't own several markets, what innovation could have come from other sources, that are now gone forever?
Monopoly, regardless of the opinion of the Chicago School of legal activists, has only limited consumer benefits. One can measure how wonderful the world is with MS controlling hardware and software on the desktop. But how do you measure negative consequences -- what *didn't* happen because MS doesn't want change?
That's bordering on gay, dude!
Now, with a little help from our friends at Microsoft, 802.11b will be trully insecure.
Can we see as an attempt from Microsoft to "open" their products?
If they don't do OpenSource, will Microsoft achieve "Openness" through MS-Really Insecure Wireless?
It's your, and not you're. Learn that they're different.
your - belonging to you
you're - you are. (just as in learn that they're different)
Cats: All your Base Are Belong To Us
With that nick?
I betcha TheLoneCabagge is part of LinuxGrrrrls
Yeah can you imagine a home LAN wireless router with an MS embedded OS? Holy bloated hardware batman!!
Microsoft has both the ability and the will to force competitors out of any market they enter. And they have a history of breaking standards -- even their own! This has as much to do with wanting to "improve" everything they touch ("sure it's not compliant or backward compatible, but it sure is cool!") as with a desire to lock out competitors, but the effect is the same. So when MS enters a product market, existing vendors get nervous, as do their customers. And with good reason.