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US Geeks Recycle GNU/Linux Boxes for Ecuador
An anonymous submitter writes: "According to this article on Salon, geeks involved with Indymedia are recycling 300 GNU/Linux boxes to send to independent media activists in Ecuador. The machines will be used to create free public computer labs across South America, networked with donated wireless 802.11b cards. Anyone wanna chip in to help cover the shipping costs?"
They make Linux boxes out of donated parts and volunteered time. They also recycle monitors, motherboard parts and steel.
Please be gentle
For shame! Slashdotting these poor good samaritains!
Couldn't you post links to the RIAA or something?
You can't take the sky from me...
As much as I enjoy helping people, this isn't really very good news for Linux from a marketing perspective. "Media activists" are generally hairy-armpitted girls and non-shower-taking guys. And "free computer clinic" brings to mind a dank, messy and smelly closet with an aging clunker of a PC inside. Do we really want computer students in Ecuador (and the US, for that matter) thinking of Linux as the bottom of the barrel that will be replaced with "standard Windows" when they have the money?
Here's an idea: these folks should talk to their local Air National Guard unit. I've worked with medical missionaries in the past who went to Ecuador for a month (imaging blogging over a 9.6 modem connection over AOL -- only provider we could hook up with -- it wasn't pretty, but that was mainly user error and I digress). These physicians managed to purchase/gather enough supplies and talked the Alabama Air National Guard into shipping everything down in a week or two in advance. Of course, I don't know how to pull those kind of stings, but I know it has been done in the past for medical missions so I guess this effort might differ in the eyes of non-techies, who don't believe that information technology is as essential as proper medical care. I'd chance a guess that pilots are like us in a way they'll look for any excuse to do what they do best. ;-) Good luck, though!
Even superheroes once were losers
That sounds like the stereotypical computer geek to me. I think he's getting his geek-types mixed up. Or maybe non of the geeks I know are stereotypical?
Can I bum a sig?
Somehow this reminds me of an old Jay Leno bit about humanitarian efforts to give Christmas toys to starving kids in the third-world:
Child: "Kalimba eat potato?"
Humanitarian: "No, Kalimba *play with* potato! See, you can put eyes, ears and mouth on the potato!"
Child: "Kalimba eat potato?"
Humanitarian: "No, no..."
That's about all I remember. It was hilarious, but I can't find the whole routine on the web.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
It means they think the world is flat...
How about we sell our boxes on ebay, and then send the money to make sure some kids down there eat tonight? I'm aware that these boxes aren't meant to be some poor child charity but this is easily the stupidest shit I've ever heard regarding acts of kindness.
And another thing, semi off-topic, regarding charity. Why is it that people ooh and aww and feel their heart sink when Sally Struthers shows them pictures of starving orphans in some god-forsaken place, but then the next day can be found in a Dillards parking lot mortified that a homeless kid almost touched their Lexus?
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
My parents were poor republicans (registerd democrat in NY), yes there are many of them. They were republicans becasue they did not believe in an overly strong federal governemnt. I am a middle class Conservative because the republicans have begun to want too much power for the federal government. But nothing like the Democrats who want to give land to the UN, take away all states rights, take away any speech they define as 'hate', and try to censure thought through 'hate crime' laws.
If it makes you feel better to call republicans cocks instead of engaging people on the issues you deserve the biased opinion indymedia will give you..
There are already a couple of posts here with people griping about how "all this effort" is mis-directed and should be spent on "domestic" kids.
Its never ceases to amaze me how quick so many people are to critique an act of charity.
Somehow kids are more deserving because they happen to be closer geographically/politically/culturally?
Some guys at some location which happens to be in our country have for some reason chosen to help some kids at some other location which is not within out political boundaries. Should they be slighted because they haven't first helped everyone in their neighborhood/city/state/country?
If you think there's someone out there who needs help who isn't getting any try this... help them. That's what these folks here did.
...Jay Leno has never, ever been funny.
As someone who has traveled throughout almost all of Ecuador, I can most emphatically say that in 85% of the country, these pcs are mostly useless without uninterruptible power supplies. Power regularly goes out for minutes and even hours at a time. Besides that, the voltage is anything but regular. Power spikes and dips are constant. Every PC at the mission in Macas had a ups on it. While it is great that this program exists, I hope that they send all the necessary components to make these machines useful.
News for you, sir: a majority of people outside the US
blame the world's problems on the US. And sometimes they are right.
Attacking Israel is not the same as being anti-semetic.
Indeed, the behaviour of most parties in the Middle East should be stoutly attacked. Rogues the lot of them.
IndyMedia represent a moderately left-wing viewpoint, one that the world would be poorer without.
And I speak as someone who disagrees with their views.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
Being anti-semitic means you can't live with Jews. This is a difference with hating 'Israel', or more correct, the Isrealian government.
I strongly disagree with the Israelian government, but I have no problem with Jews - you see? I can hate Bush, but have no problems with Americans.
Teenagers these days don't have as much sex as they want each other to think they do.
Indymedia is not the kind of organization I would want to associate myself with, or support even indirectly. Just go to their front page and read about the kind of annoying, wrongheaded activism they seem to support. They are not so much a news organization as a clearing house for far left activist information. These are people that talk about "global justice" when they really mean justice for their particular downtrodden group of the day. On their front page and links off of it, I find evidence of seriously anti-capitalist, anti-Semitic and anti-American sentiment.
While this does sound like a noble project, there are other organizations (as was pointed out by another poster) with similar projects that you might support if you find Indymedia's politics so far left that they're about to fall off the table.
It is certainly also true that there are people located domestically in the US we should consider helping get access to computers and technology training, though I don't think that should preclude helping those in South America by any means, unlike some of the other posters in this thread.
Just a thought.
Indymedia is an independent site that anyone can submit articles to (hmm.. sounds familiar?) and it has local editions for all over the world. It is not anti semitic - check out the israel edition and see jewish people posting articles at both ends of the spectrum.
no sig.
Also check out this video interview with one of the organizers.
Ugh, more reason why I hate to read the comments anymore.
Why is it people relate IndyMedia to terrorism? Perhaps some of the journalists related to it have slanted views and it reflects that in their stories but how is this different than mainstream media?
Isn't the basis of IndyMedia freedom of speech? Would you rather only have mainstream media owned by 3 gigantic companies?
Now I understand this article is primarily about the charity aspect which *surprise* everybody seems to have a problem with. But the same people critisizing the charity, are the same people that probably have never donated to anything in their lives.
Moral of the story: quit the "Do as I say, Not as I Do" routine.. it's tired.
I just wasted your mod points! HA!
From the article,
Anti-globalization activists in Oakland, Calif., are recycling old machines, loading them with free software and shipping them off to Ecuador.
Doesnt something seem wrong with that sentence? How do they "ship them off" without support companies like UPS, FEDEX, DHL or whatever. Dont they all hate those companies?
Also, why are they against free trade? Its hard to get a feel for what these people stand for, and why. They say they are defending poor people, but how? Wont the isolation they seem to want, keep the poor people poor?
That being said, I think that more computers in south america is great. I dont know how this particular group came upon this idea however. Also, the article is a bit short on details, as to where the computers will be housed, and maintained etc.. It also goes on to explain that some will form a wireless network in Quito, but the rest will go to small towns.. How are those computers going to be useful?
It all sounds like a great idea, but I really dont understand these people.. I think they do more harm than good to the very people that they say they want to help..
-- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
As for the *DEFINITION*, as you put it, you might want to look it up, some other time before you troll.
As for the rest of your nonsense, you should consider the possibility that some people might disagree with the Israeli oppression of the palestineans as well as the palestinean terror.
I don't think you can place a clear label on Indymedia, link you can't place a clear label on all open software users. We aren't all commies, and we know that.
;)
Indymedia is so heterogenous, that you need to judge individual projects, like this one, if you want to decide to support them or not. They don't have leaders that make up big plans, they are more like lots of local groups that do what they think is good.
And maybe you haven't read the other comments, but Free Geek is supporting this action - so helping them could also mean helping this project
Teenagers these days don't have as much sex as they want each other to think they do.
Indymedia is only moderately left wing. They're about trying to show world views of current global/local problems. The only reason many people view them as extremely left wing is because they talk about issues such as animal rights, womens' rights, environmental issues, violence/war, and governmental issues. Frankly, if you see these issues as left wing, that's pretty sad. These are issues everyone should be concerned with...and most of the world outside of the US speaks about openly. Indymedia about the closest thing we have to unbiased news in the US. Think about that next time you turn on Fox News and watch your daily dose of sensationalism
Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
From the article:
Now, for those of you that want to make up your own minds, here's the FTAA Official website and here's Global Exchange's take on the situation. A Google search for FTAA turns up many links, but pro and con, and should provide enough information for the interested.
Point 1: These computers are not going to poor underpriveleged kids, these are a bit off-the-edge activists with some fringe anti-American tendencies.
Point 2: No matter who they're going to, 300 computers is insignificant. Many medium-sized businesses are getting rid of old computers in these numbers. And since these computers aren't going to help poor kids in schools learn technology, it has no effect. Not newsworthy. I've personally disposed of hundreds of computers, and I'd always put a nice package of freeware on the hard drive before sending it away.
Point 3: The only reason this is happening, is to get some good press. This isn't a "helping a child" story, or a "rejuvenating a country" story, or anything like that, but that's how it is being reported. I'd like to see how many millions of dollars of financial support our government spends in the same country, yet totally goes unreported and uncredited.
...
As a note of caution:
My own experience doing this (built a computer lab in Nicaragua) sort of thing suggests that these folks will run into many political and economic complexities in the places they go to install computers e.g.:
In any event, I hope everyone involved will learn a lot from the process and it will motivate more geeks to get involved with those who have much less than themselves (not the least of the reasons being that it makes you happier).
From the article:
..300 computers that are being shipped to Ecuador will stay there; some will be used in Quito, the capital city, where activists will also set up a citywide wireless network, but many will be sent to various towns and villages all over the region. "It's interesting because on some level you might say these people don't need computers -- they need clean water, housing and some sort of economic base that's not exploited," Henshaw-Plath says. "But we're saying that giving computers to the right people, that's the tool to get that social change."
I can tell you for a fact (I come from Ecuador) that the people there DO need clean water and housing, along with EDUCATION in order to actually USE these computers and the wireless network.
Without this knowledge, the people who they'd like to help won't know and eventually won't CARE about the computers.
I'm sorry but I really believe that these people are out of touch with the common person in Ecuador..
But what are these policies that have enraged the Muslims?
And why are they the fault of the Bush's? Bush had been in office a little over a year, and the specific attack on the WTC was in planning for more than a year. It is easy to say, and based on nothing more than common wisdom (very rarely correct), but Bush, and his policies wouldn't have even affected anyone when the planning started.
The Muslims have already stated that all western society must fall. Bush, either one of them, haven't created the Protestant, or more generically, the Christian, ethic. These are the things that the fundamentalist Muslims were attacking. Unfortunately for all the atheists, Muslims don't see a big difference between the two groups, as they are all infidels, and deserve to die.
The nerve gas isn't going to reach here, so where is it going to go?
Sheesh, people need to grab a bit of perspective here. They're talking about doing a bit of work to help out the needy in a poor country. From the response you'd think they were throwing Molotov Cocktails on the White House lawn.
People need to go have a walk and clear the dogma from their heads if they really think this is somehow an evil conspiracy.
If it makes you feel better to call republicans cocks instead of engaging people on the issues you deserve the biased opinion indymedia will give you..
That's a great point. There is far too much demonizing of Republicans - and worse a lot of subtle patronizing of everybody - by left-oriented publications. And there are indeed two sides to every coin.
But the nastiness definitely cuts both ways. I don't need to remind you that Rush Limbaugh and many other cronies have spent a lot of time abusing things like the very idea of any legal protection for the environment, and always using the most scathing personal attacks.
Ultimately all media has an angle. I agree with the posters who complain that the consolidation of media in this country produces a flat point of view. But we've got internet news, let's use it. Read Indymedia, take it for what it's worth: a lefty, activist-friendly rag. Read other countries' major newspapers - almost all of them have English-language editions. Compare the Washington Post to the Boston Globe to Le Monde. You probably won't change your core beliefs, but you sure will get a broader perspective on all these things.
While I normally try to convince anti-globlization activists of the merits of globalization whenever I can, this time I will hold my tongue. How can plugging a third world country into the internet be seen as anything else but furthering globalization?
If there are group like this in New York City, I would love to volunteer my spare parts and time, all the while chuckling to myself about how it furthers my agenda and not theirs.
Besides, if developing countries end up with an entrenched linux market share, MS will be pressured to build a compelling Switch campaign, a la Apple. The ensuing competition benefits the whole world.
Always gets at least +2 Informative.
Yet an actual historically aware post gets labeled Troll.
I love this moderation system. Something based on nothing but supposition and strong sentiment gets an informative, something based on history gets a troll.
The attack wasn't aimed at Bush. It was aimed at western civilization as a whole. The same things that make us a target for attacks about being arrogant (uneducated spite at our icon status) make us a target for people attacking the icon.
A. It's not just a man helping someone; it's an organization of activists that has some rather extreme viewpoints, that some of us don't trust. They're asking for our money, so we would do well to examine them carefully.
B. The "needy" in this case can be defined as "friends of Indymedia in another country". We're not helping some starving kid here. I wouldn't give the editors of Indymedia a computer if they wanted one. Why would I want to help them give one to their friends?
C. The feasibility of the project needs to be looked at as well. Does this project make any sense considering the country's electrical grid, laws, politics, and Internet connectivity, or is it just a political gesture? I suspect it's the latter.
Dogma, BTW, is an established viewpoint created to be repeated without scrutiny. What you're seeing here on Slashdot is "skepticism", which is a whole different animal.
There's no sig like this sig anywhere near this sig, so this must be the sig.
While I normally try to convince anti-globlization activists of the merits of globalization whenever I can, this time I will hold my tongue. How can plugging a third world country into the internet be seen as anything else but furthering globalization?
I think you're confused.
'Anti-globalization' activists aren't against greater communication and information exchange. Indeed, many are anarchists that would like to see all borders fall and all imposed limits between various peoples disappear.
They are, however, generally against the consolidation of global economic power among a power elite who socialize costs while privatizing benefits. At the moment, globalization seems to be more about extending Western economic power and authority than really improving the lives and freedom of all people.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
Notice I said smaller federal government, now at the state level I would fight for smaller govt too, but theat is my fight in NY not someone in CA..
It must be nice to be in a party in which everyone has a better handel on everything than anyone else in any party..
Let me tell you what we were fighting for in WWII. The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, and it became perfectly clear that the border's of these United States were no longer safe, and the problems of the world could eventually affect us. The men and women of the US were afraid that one day, the war would be fought on our soil, and that life as we know it would change forever. That we might just have to sacrafice millions as the russians did. That our cities might be bombed as London was. If the American people gave a rats ass about the wellbeing of the rest of the world, we would have helped sooner. We don't.
Since our creation, we have been week, and we have been afraid to interact with the rest of the world in fear that this interaction might make our homeland appear on someone's radar screen, and that we may have to defend this land from aggressors homeland. Did we fight WWII to save the Jews? Did we fight it to liberate France or free England from the threat of her neighbor? Did we wish to liberate the people of Germany, Japan, and Italy from a repressive government? No! We realized that we may be next.
Just so I am clear, the American government cares about American's first. Thats why we, the American people have put it there. It is the job of our American government to do what is right in defending our way of life.
We have been placed in a world were the agressor with the biggest stick wins. This is apparent in Afghanastan, Cuba, Iraq, most of the middle east in fact, China, North Korea, and every other home of an oppressive totaltarion government. These governments would like to rape America of its fortune and discard are scared bodies to die. I support my government in setting up an empire in order to protect my family from the evil totaltarian governments of the world.
Further more, let me explain something else to you. The group of people with the biggest production get to build the biggest army. The group of people with the biggest army get to defend there borders and do what is neccesary to prevent aggression on its people. Therefore, economy, as shown in WWII, is equal to military might. Production is directly related to infrastructure, energy, and food. The power in the world that has the greatest infrastructure with sufficient food and energy gets to dictate whatever it wants. It was has allowed America to dominate in the last 50 years. The American capitalist system pays those who produce. Therefore, for 200 years, men have worked very hard to produce. We have spent lifetimes building businesses to take home money to our families so they can have nice things and live in luxury. As a side affect, because our individuals are paid per production and each generation grew beyond their parents, we have the biggest infrastructure in the world. Also, we grow way more food than we eat.
But remember, three things are needed in order to protect our borders. We need energy. Without it, our production (war making ability) goes down, and we are aggressed on by our neighbor. Therefore, war for oil makes since. Without war for oil, we fight wars for our territory. I'd rather fight wars for oil.
In conclusion, if you're not american, watch out because we will do whatever it takes to survive and defend our borders against you. If you your lifestyle to be directly related to your production, come aboard. It's a sturdy ship.
This isn't the sig you are looking for... Carry on...
Sending food ruins local economy as it works as would dumping of say memories into this country.
colombia used to produce alot of it's own wheat. back in the 60s or 70's the us started dumping wheat on their market left over from subsiding
farmers in the us. this infusion of wheat dropped the price of wheat in colombia to the point where farmers couldnt make any money on it. the farmers had to produce something to feed their families.. you can guess what that something was. now we are opressing them with a war on drugs.
-- john
It sounds like these computers will be used for producing additional anti-growth propoganda, and thus will actually work to keep people in poverty rather than fixing up the economically ignorant governments of the developing world.
I've got news for anti-globalists - there has been zero growth averaged across developing countries over the last ten years. And as a result, there is still massive poverty. Despite increasing levels of direct investment, developing country governments have been running massive deficits and allowing inflation to rule. Actually, direct investment in the poorest countries is decreasing, it is only the somewhat-with-it governments of Latin America that can keep investment coming in.
Of course, this is due in part because of the IMF and WB dumping dollars into developing governments without gettign any kind of "adjustments" in policy...so they are half-right to want to axe them.
If you axe the WB and IMF, we will stop supporting corrupt developing governments, and they will have to take drastic efforts to increase GDP growth lest they not get their pay...
You are confusing the organization itself with the voices they allow to be heard.
You miss the point of my post, sir. Is IndyMedia an organization worthy of receiving my money/time/material, or they not?
They proclaim to be the voice of everyone. Judging by many (all that I've seen) of the writings on their websites, they seem to be decidedly one sided.
From www.indymedia.org: The Independent Media Center is a network of collectively run media outlets for the creation of radical, accurate, and passionate tellings of the truth. We work out of a love and inspiration for people who continue to work for a better world, despite corporate media's distortions and unwillingness to cover the efforts to free humanity.
"...the creation of radical, accurate, and passionate tellings of the truth. "
From reading many of the writings at indymedia.org, accurate only applies when it agrees with the editors viewpoint.
"...despite corporate media's distortions and unwillingness..."
Sounds like a predisposition to disbelieve anything but what exists on their website.
It is essential that all voices be heard.
Exactly. Show me some opposing viewpoints from IndyMedia.org.
Free speech is great, and needs to be promoted/enforced/protected at all times. Free speech means "free". Any and all viewpoints. Not just those that you agree with.
Whether globalization is a GoodThing(tm) or not, has little to do with the effects of indymedia.org's efforts and policies.
And not denouncing acts of terrorism, but merely calling it civil disobidience by "freedom fighters" is at least as bad as corporate greed.
It's not that all Americans are this clueless - it's just that the attitude betrayed by the parent post is particularly irksome. Americans are resented for their cultural and political hegemony, not because everyone else is starving.
Point 2 - 300 computers to a news-gathering organization can be amazingly significant; 300 computers to schools would be a drop in the bucket, though the long-term payback would still be worthwhile. Sure, most of these machines are Offical Doorstops today, which means that they can run Microsoft Office version N, N-1, or N-2 at reasonable speed, and can't play recent video games, but people running news-gathering organizations need text-handling, email, and simple databases can do amazing things with 486s. A 14.4kbps modem is about 200 times faster than most people type. (And 486s could run Doom, which was really amazing in its day.)
Point 3 - Hey, Indymedia are a press organization - of course they're going to give good press to things that help them get press
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Having said that, though, the protests themselves mainly occur at meetings of Western and other big governments, which generally *are* focused more on extending their power and authority and supporting their big political constituents than on genuine free trade. A Libertarian version of NAFTA wouldn't have been 1600 pages of protectionist rulemaking that shifts the details of who gets protected; it would have been a paragraph or so with a lot of room for signatures at the bottom. The IMF Austerity Rules that get imposed on any government that wants to borrow more money are generally pretty rational, if painful, because they have to get the target country on a revenue-positive economic track so they can get their earlier debts paid back. Unfortunately, however, both the old debts that are being paid back and the new money they're lending tend to be for projects that weren't economically viable, centralize power in the hands of the governments and usually the ruling elites, and if they aren't spent on the military, they tend to be spent on big development projects that are environmentally destructive or at best on Bread&Circuses. And many of these countries either have government-controlled broadcasting systems, or if they do have privatized media, it's still controlled by the Usual Suspects, so having an Indymedia type thing around to provide some alternative to the major media is really valuable.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Perhaps a bit off-topic, I know, but I was wondering if anyone knew of any companies that actually crush and re-smelt old CRTs, instead of just shipping them off to China?
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
I've laughed a bit as I've read some of the trolls on here, and shaken my head at the more serious comments that suggest decent people that have a very misconstrued concept of what IMC is about.
The people that I know in my local Indymedia are all very much in favor of democritizing things. This includes government, media, and trade. (Lately I've been thinking that democracy is a more radical concept than most realize...)
Indymedia was founded around the time of the 1999 WTO protests, which were pro-democratic as much as ore more than they were anti-capitalist. (FTAA and NAFTA are rather the opposite, anti-democratic, pro-capitalist.)
Just so you get a feel of what's actually on an IMC, here's some of what was on madison.indymedia.org today:
- Madison City Council Considering Section 8 Housing Ordinance Tonight
- Digital Rights Management Begins Creeping Into Windows Software, Audio CDs (my article; summary of Slashdot, the Register, eWeek, other sources)
- UW Madison Students Defeat Attempt To Oust Progressive Campus Leaders
- My Summer Vacation as a Delegate at the AFL-CIO Convention
The stories such as these that get featured in the center column are usually of relatively high quality, of local interest, and linked to a longer article. Since joining the Madison IMC I've become one of the center column editors, although I never edit any articles that people have submitted. That goes against our ethics.
We strive for accuracy, passion, and truth. Not ratings or advertising dollars.
-- haaz.
In case you hadn't noticed, the first two, at least, are on the endangered species list in 'America' at the moment. As for the third, well God alone knows.
Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
Nah... It's how easy it is to replace them. Market economy for the employees, socialism for the corporations. The worst of both worlds.
Well, not the worst... not yet, anyway. Not for most of us reading here.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.