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Dell Partners with Square
zenintrude writes "Gameforms is reporting that Square has signed a deal with Dell that will secure new Dell computers to be shipping with Final Fantasy XI pre-installed. This comes on the heels of another story involving Square partnering with nVidia, in which certain aspects/details in Final Fantasy XI will only be able to be accomplished with a geForce4 card."
Dude, you're gonna lose productivity.
I hate sigs.
I sure don't mind it shipping on new computers from Dell, but requiring a nvidia card for certain things? That is rediculous. I use an ATI Radeon (aging one mind you) and would like to see some real compatibility between them!
What we see depends on mainly what we look for. -- John Lubbock Now search for that bug slave!
All this promiscuous 'partnering' is sure to result in a computer virus that won't wash off so easily.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Interestingly enough, a large amount of market share of Square is owned by Sony, which also sells PCs. However, I have yet to see any announcement of Square products being shipped on Sony PCs. It seems strange that the reverse is not the truth.. is there something going on behind the scences here?
Well, there are certain things a GF4 can do that older Radeons, etc, just can't do. They don't have the feature set. In that case, I don't mind so much if they use those features and then say "best with GF4" or something. But if they go out of their way to use pixelshaders on the GF4 and not support the equiv functionality on the Radeon 9700, for instance, that's just fucking shitty and people should boycott Square and Nvidia if that comes to pass. The last thing we need is another 3dfx Glide situation where games are pretty much card-specific.
nVidia has finally realized the edge it needs to put ATI under: marketing dollars. No amount of cool tech from ATI will stop the fact that Square signed this deal with nVidia. This is where the GeForce4 will get its' edge against the technically superior Radeon 9700 Pro.
It's the same way with Sony. If you can't win with better games, win with more money and an unstoppable juggernaut of a marketing department.
...these jokes are getting old.
But seriously, this could be a good thing and it could also be a bad thing. If FFXI gains enough popularity to generate the fanbase it needs in Japan, a US port (to PC) would be almost guaranteed. But, considering that nobody wants to pay (monthly) for FFXI after buying it, is giving it away free going to make people want to buy it? I think not. Take Everquest, for example-- you can pick up a jewel case copy for $10, a huge slash over what it was back in the day. I did this. And I stopped paying for it two months later, when I found that I don't like that style of game. If anything, it's going to get a huge fanbase for the first month or so and then everyone will quit.
Of course, that's all just my speculation, being a typical FF fan. See sig.
"Why Subscribe?" Good question...
Your best bet is to borrow an OS install disc from one of your friends and install the OS again from scratch.
I want to be able to play FF7 on my new PC.
There would be such a massive market if they released a patch, or released a remastered version of the game (updated graphics, perhaps?) that it would easily cover it's own production costs.
Does anyone else remember when the really great thing about an Nvidia card was incredible performance at great a great price, and not gimmicks?
What? Don't think it'll sell? So quit trying to port XI.
"You're never ready, just less unprepared."
Before you know it every Dell box will come with Windows pre-installed. Oh, wait...
Square's been doing this stuff forever.. Remember Super Mario RPG? Actually, that Disney one looks kind of intriguing.. Probably pick that up for 'the kids'.
I'm just upset they're abandoning the installed FF fanbase in favor of a 'trendy' MMORPG. What made the series great was the story lines, characters, the single player experience.
Now instead of leveling up to track down Sephiroth or defeat the Ultimate Weapon, I get to have Jimmy McNutsack in his parents basement in Iowa call me a 'big gay fag homo'.
I swear to god, those things are just irc chatrooms with 3d avatars, and less intelligent conversation.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Does nVidia have its own proprietary 3D api?
Nope, it's pretty much DirectX or OpenGL.
Of course it will. Probably look alot nicer on a 256 meg Radeon 9700 Pro, to boot.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Good idea:
Striking a business deal to provide your game on a large customer base.
[Please note that I say this for games, not utilities or operating systems]
Bad idea:
Requiring your game to only be 'optimized' on a specific company's chip-set.
AnamanFan - Trying to find the Truth, one post at a time.
Listen, I will make this point once, so listen up. I know you guys are regular Linux nuts, but when it comes to games, you obviously don't have a clue.
;) )
The reason Square is making so many 'exclusive' deals with Final Fantasy XI is because they want this product to be a success. MMORPGs, whether the cheap ****s who won't and never will float the monthly fee will admit it, are quit good and successful games. If this is a quality MMORPG, Square could have themselves a big money maker on their hands. Not only that, but an MMORPG that is insanely popular is a great way to get consumers interested in your other console games. Even better, its a good way to convince them to buy the console where near all Square games live.
( Exception being for portable Squaresoft games. No portable Sony system. )
Square knows it needs as many people playing its MMO as possible. More subscriptions means more monthly cash, more 'friends' of possible subscribers online, etc. . They don't want barriers such as 'which gaming system you prefer' to stand in the way of addicting you to their game. ( especially with that nice monthly fee
Basically, this story means that a great number of people will play this game purely because it comes with their new Dell computer. It ensures a greater online gaming population of players, and more subscriptions for Square. Its a smooth move.
Heh. I remember back when nVidia support was in the minority and 3dfx was 'the' graphics card chip. nVidia didn't use any sick tactics back then: their business practice was clean. It seems that has changed; though I suppose Intel was that way once, too.
It's a lesson in monopoly. You keep a company at bay, balanced by another and they BOTH behave and keep prices down. You leave one alone, and prices go up, service goes down, and the customer gets screwed.
I can only hope ATI does well with the latest Radeon Pro (quite highly rated from what I've seen). I'm disgusted with nVidia. This kind of business practice makes me think I should never buy an nVidia card again. Some areas only playable if you buy a ridiculously expensive card? It's incredible what capitalism gives us, just incredible.
Logic is the ultimate device.
We just saw a story on the collapse of 3dfx. One thing the story didn't mention was Glide, and 3dfx pushing it down the throats of game developers to try to get a monopoly on the market. Thank God for John Carmack, Id Software, and OpenGL.
Now nVidia is doing the following: "This comes on the heels of another story involving Square partnering with nVidia, in which certain aspects/details in Final Fantasy XI will only be able to be accomplished with a geForce4 card"
Now a geForce4 is a nice card, but the ATI 9700 is the only card that fully supports DirectX 9. You would think the 9700 would be better for Final Fantasy.
There is probably a chunk of code that says,
if (card_manufacturer = nVidia)
{
frame_rate=fast;
colors=vibrant;
special_effects=on;
}
It seems like nVidia is going the 3dfx route. Too bad; competition in the graphics card market is good for the consumer.
This is a mixed blessing. On the one hand, Dell is offering pre-installed games (albeit with only one choice). This increases the number of people with the game, and we all know that when your friends tell you to play something, you should give in to peer pressure. On the other hand, this is just another app that the common computer user will never figure out. They'll probably try to do a straight delete of the game and accidentally delete their important documents in the process (so goes the way of Windows). You know, maybe if these people read Slashdot, they would instantly become intelligent and open-minded.
And now, for a sig that's a complete copout.
Why can't square move on from the Final Fantasy name?
Bushido Blade
Einhander
Ehrgeiz
Vagrant Story
Xenogears
Parasite Eve
Chrono Trigger/Cross
Driving Emotion Type S
The Bouncer
Kingdom Hearts
I think that Square pumps out the quality non Final Fantasy titles, and you're just not paying attention.
I agree that SquareSoft has pushed out a large number of the FF series games, but have you taken a look at their other offerings?
Parasite Eve? I've had numerous hours playing, but more importantly, replaying the first of that series. As for the second one, it's still a good play.
FFT? Okay the name is the same, but the play is much different and welcome to replay.
There are also a couple of other RPG titles that I've yet to buy/play (Salsa(?) Frontier, etc).
So, I'd have to say that they put out more than just FF games and those ones are quite good.
and the Irishman took the fly in his hands and yelled, "spit it out!"
I find this to be a puzzling move by Square to have aspects/details that only run on a Geforce4. The XBOX basically has a custom Geforce 4 chipset, which obviously is made by NVIDIA. I don't understand why they would target such a chipset on computers, and not the XBOX while they are at it. Maybe Sony won't let them...
While they've rehashed the same genre over and over, they did put thier hearts into making Final Fantasy the Movie [imdb.com]. It didn't do too well in the box office, so now they're back to making games.
Damn, do I count as the only person on Earth who actually liked "Spirits Within?"
I mean, it had a decent plot (even if large portions of it did drew heavily from the games IV/II, VI/III, and VII), the graphics made for amazing eye-candy (good enough CGI to "forget" it counted as an animated movie after the first fifteen minutes), and a reasonably consistent game (er, movie) world.
I really suspect it flopped only due to the same anti-animation prejudice American audiences have against anime in general. I don't know a single person who said they hated it - But at the same time, I don't know more than two or three people who actually saw it.
I have a problem with all Massively Multiplayer Online Only games... and I think a lot of other people have the same problem with them... monthly fees! I don't want any game where I HAVE to have an Internet connection (broadband preferably) and also HAVE to pay a monthly fee just to play a game. You may also even be required to pay for the game up front too. This just doesn't seem like something that the general consumer wants to bear. I like gaming a lot, and I like playing my games online... but I only play the ones that are free to play online (Unreal Tournament, Medal of Honor, Warcraft 3, etc.). I have played Asheron's Call, Ultima Online, and EverQuest but it turned out that I had a lot more fun playing those types of games (RPGs) by myself. Also, a huge problem with MMO games, is their longevity. Think about it, if you have your NES, Sega, TurboGrafix, NeoGeo, etc. games still and the consoles, you can still play them now. This will probably (95% sure) not be the case with all your MMO games. How many of those will still be around and playable 5-10 years from now. My guess, not many. There goes your time and money investment.
3df/x tried that foolishness. It was just before they died...
Don't despair. They haven't abandoned the loyal, traditional fans with FFXI. In case you missed the announcements, shortly after Square revealed the details of FFXI, they mentioned they would soon start designing FFXII which would take them back to the original single-player RPG format.
I mean, it had a decent plot
No, it didn't. It wasn't a Final Fantasy plot, it wasn't an american plot... and it wasn't even a very good Jappanese plot.
it was bloodthirsty, distopian, anti-establishment, and mundane. Every good FF game I've ever seen has magic and a villian that the heroes actually fight and face down... Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within did not.
Now, don't get me wrong--the CG was great, the design of the gagets was great, and the story had a message... but between every character aside from the two non-military folk dying and the utter lack of FF's traditional "different" feel, it just wasn't a good movie.
Great CG. Bad Movie.
I really suspect it flopped only due to the same anti-animation prejudice American audiences have against anime in general. I don't know a single person who said they hated it - But at the same time, I don't know more than two or three people who actually saw it.
The last movie I saw that I hated was "Superstar," and I got dragged to go see that. I'm an anime fan, I saw the movie twice... and while I won't say that I hated the movie, I hate the fact that they wasted the chance they had with a bad script, lousy voice sync, and bad market research.
Making a movie isn't art. Making a scene or playing a character is, but making a movie is a business, just like making an art gallery is.
Agreed. While the concept of being able to have my own custom black mage running around is intriguing, I have yet to find an MMORPG that I really enjoyed and didn't require me to treat it like a part time job to advance.
I would have rather seen another traditional FF game taking the spot of FF11. Another game like 9 would have been great. Oh well.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
Good call. Shadowrun would be a great MMORPG. The "D&D" style fantasy games, even with FF's added technology aspects, are played out to beat the band. Give us Seattle, plus (with game technology's capabilities these days) an expanded Shadowrun universe (worldwide, perhaps?), and you have something that would put MMORPG on the map for keeps. Deckers, Mercs, Street Docs, awesome weapons and wild magic. This game is screaming to be made for the online audience.
Blog Prophyts - Right On, Man
They can bundle a friggin' game, but where's the JVM?
That must be part of the "real operating system" option--the one that Dell doesn't offer.
The deal was with Dell Japan, and I would imagine this is only going to happen with Dell's Japanese computers. Here is a relevant link at Dell's page, and another story in English.
Aside from kickback fees from Square, what does Dell get out of it? Certainly noone is going to buy a Dell over something else simply beause of a $50 game preinstalled.
Can the fees possibly cover the increased support and installation costs?
Square USA has nothing even close to this; Dell is silent as hell. even square japan has nothing at all:
the only press release i can find is here but it just says Nvidia chips are used for testing and with the "best way to play" logo -- so does Unreal Tournament 2003 -- it says nothing about GeForce being the ONLY playing video-card (as all directX compatible (OpenGL?) should work okay. (just like UT2k3 runs just fine on my radeon)
besides this is all for japan anyway. There are rumors (Electronic Gaming Monthly) that says there may not ever be a FFXI release because of the massive amount of support square will have to burden -- and if EA does not want to do it, they may just skip it. (can't find online version of article)
small side note: i remember back in the days when FF7 supported every videocard *except* nvidia TNT... haha... but eventually nvidia gained enough popularity / people bitched about it and they released a patch to allow nvidia. (they even had software rendering back then!) i bet if us radeon users bitch enough they will make a patch for it too.
another small side note: again. back in FF7 pre-nvidia-patch days -- the software rendering was so slow it was possible to predict the slot-machine thingy for one of the mini-games. i actually did much worse in that mini-game after the patch was installed. -- so i finished that part with software rendering, and played the rest with the patch.
My life in the land of the rising sun.
As a Linux convert I've come to really like having choices. When a piece of software (open or closed) rises to the top on its own merits I don't have much to complain about. The problem is when a product is artificially bootstrapped the alternatives tend to get ignored, even if there are 'better' choices. I really liked my Amiga and Atari Lynx. Unfortunately I was 'forced' to switch to the 'inferior' substitutes of a Windows 3.1 PC and a Gameboy in order to stay mainstream. Certainly poor company management was a factor in both these cases, but I consider them clear examples of quantity beating out quality.
Hopefully I'm just old and bitter. I used to play Everquest, enjoyed it for a time, but in the end it was just sucking up time and providing little enjoyment. I was aware of the amount of willpower I needed to exert in order to give up the game. MMORPGs can be fun, but addictive. Everquest was certainly much harder to give up playing than any MUD I played, and those were free.
FF11 might be a great game. Square has certainly rarely disappointed me. But this is a new and wide open market, and name recognition will sell units even if the game sucks. I just don't want to take another step backward, and I'm pretty sure deals like this aren't designed to improve the market for me.
A steaming cup of soykaf would be real wiz right now.
You know, your sig seems somehow appropriate... But seriously, is 375,000 really that big? Think of how many millions of copies of FFX got sold. It wouldn't take too many of them to get hooked on XI to beat 375,000...
Oh, Square claims FFXI already has 140,000 subscribers.
I would be more pleased if Dell would ship computers with vi preinstalled. :-)
My other first post is car post.
I had a lot of fun with that game.
It had a whole LOT of references to the pre-FF7 games.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Frankly, there is no reason that FFX shouldn't run on a GF2 other than showing signs of a poor port. There is nothing substantially amazing about the PS2 hardware in respect to current PC graphics accellerators. Something is obviously wrong with this picture.
Perhaps there are going to be some substantial enhancements to the game? Judging by the poor quality of the ports of the previous games, I expect little from this one.
the Chrono Cross engine has the same look and feel as the previously released Xenogears engine (and even roughly the same file layout).
???
Xenogears (great game, btw - looking forward to Xenosaga ep. 1 next year...) used a polygonal background with sprite characters animated on top of it for the exploration. The Gear sequences were fully polygonal, but seemed to use VERY simplified backgrounds. In fact, it seemed to be the exact opposite of the FF7 engine, which used polygonal characters over static (or fmv) backdrops.
Chrono Cross was all polygonal, IIRC (Can't seem to find my copy to verify this). Again, the backgrounds during combat were very simplified, but enginewise, that appears to be the only similarity I can find. (the other similarity between the two games being the exceptional music, by Yasunori Mitsuda, IIRC)
I can't speak for the file layout, though. =)
Sorry but if you are not playing NWN then you need to find a better community. I play on a fairly large PW and we have tons of people who roleplay their hearts out. Depending on your leaning between total HCR and action you have the entire spectrum from diablo alikes to a 99 server 1000+ player PW using hard core rules. I would say that any MMORPG is going to be better then single player follow the script games simply because your interaction with the other people even if they are not strict rp'rs will be more interactive then a read the script type "interaction".
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Definately agreed. My ATI card (Radeon All-In-Wonder) was beautiful for what it could do, but severely hampered by drivers. The thing was loaded with features, and quite fast. However, due to incredibly crappy drivers, 90% of my games (particularly those needing directX in fullscreen mode) would not play in Windows 2000/XP. I have a dual install of 98, but it was annoying to have to reboot to play my games.
Also, on a few games I noticed that sound would go to crap in win98 games after awhile. While the video card had no relation to my soundcard, once installing a GeForce4MX this problem went away. I'm guess that the ATI drivers for 98 had a memory leak or something.
It's like having an awesome car, and a pair of undersized tires and low axles. It's great to drive around, but go anywhere with a bump and something gets torn out from underneath you...
Good video card=hardware+drivers+support+compatibility - phorm
Yes, for godsakes, port FFX. I've been waiting for ages to play this damn game. I hardly think it fair that I have to shell out money for a PS2 console just to play FFX, since it doesn't seem to be available for any other systems.
Thus far I've collected all of the FF series available to North America up to FFIX. I have FFI on NES, and the rest as part of the FF Anthology/etc. I was somewhat saddened that FFIX didn't come out on PC, although I ended up buying the PS1 disc and played it through on emulator (which worked surprisingly well).
Unless a decent emulator comes out or a port for PC is announced, I may end up not playing FFX at all, even though I love squaresoft games.
Limiting themselves to a single console seems to eliminate a lot of people from getting the game. I haven't seem PS2's coming out overly cheap on eBay yet either.
Anyone know of FFX/PC or a good PS2 emulator? - phorm
This is the REAL story (courtesy of RPG Warehouse):
. ht m
Dell Japan has decided to release two versions of their PCs packaged with Final Fantasy XI. Dell Japan will release the Dimension 8200 and Dimension 4500 with the PC version of Final Fantasy XI. Both PCs will come equipped with an Intel Pentium 4 1.8Ghz processor and a GeForce4 Ti4200 64MB DDR video card. So if you live in Japan and want to get the best performance from Final Fantasy XI this might be a PC you could consider buying.
Here's a link to Dell's website showing off the systems:
http://www.dell.com/html/jp/products/dimen/ff11
No where do I see that you will be forced to use an nVidia card on the PC version of the game, and no where do I see this deal being in the United States (yet.)
Also, FFXI isn't even out for the PC in the U.S., much less Japan. Squaresoft says November 7th for Japan... with the U.S. version slated for early 2003 release.
Why do I have to do your job for you, SlashDot?
Not All Who Wander Are Lost
Every single time square wavers from the RPG genre the result is a game that really sucks.
:)
I'm sorry, but youre wrong. Bushido Blade was amazing, and Einhander is the best sidescrolling space shooter ever
As for RPGs, FF8 sucked, bu FF9 and FFX were both very good, and very different (albiet not plot wise) from other games in the series. Squaresoft's other RPGs are also very good, and are typically completely different from each other. They often have a unique combination of the classic Square RPG with some action gaming added in. Vagrant Story and Parasite Eve are perfect examples.
And what's wrong with RPGs anyway? They happen to be my favorite type of game.
I predict that FFXI will be a failure
I personally agree about FFXI, but not for the reasons you mention. Online gaming just isn't as popular as all the hype. Most gamers like to play games alone or with friends that are there with them. The majority of gamers aren't the type you see in internet forums, they're at home playing EA's Madden 2002 with their buddies on the couch. I'll personally be avoiding it because online RPGs require you do dedicate WAY too much of your life to them to be any good at it, and I have other things I like to do besides play video games, and other games I like to play.
FFXI doesn't require the hard drive, and the PS2 network adapter and software are only $30. That's chepaer then what you need to buy to get online with any other console, including the Xbox with it's already builtin interface. I don't think that either of those two things are going to be a factor in FFXI acceptance.
Square was one of those companies that used to be cool. Now however, it's just producing sub-stanard games with revolting storylines who's sales are driven by the memory of what Square once was.
Sounds to me like somebody's making excuses and kicking themselves because they bought an Xbox instead of a PS2.
level treadmill, hardly. I have not progressed past level 5 despite playing a couple dozen hours a week for the last couple weeks. The game is VERY interactive, between the DM's, questing, things like the tradeskills system which allow you to do something other then hack and slash etc the world I play in is like a small community. If you believe that talking to a script in a game like the Final Fantasy series is better then talking to live humans playing their characters then I guess there isn't much that NWN can do for you, but I think most people prefer actual intelligence to be behind the sprites they are interacting with =)
p.s. Did I mention that the world I play in has removed almost everything Bioware put into the game from the default merchants to the way that experience is gained? We haven't gone as far as the HCR folks because we believe that game fun should come before following the DnD 3'rd edition rules to the letter, but we lean much more towards them then towards Biowares Diablo wannabe)
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.