Slashdot Mirror
The First Automotive Easter Egg?
automandc writes "The October dead-tree issue of Popular Science is reporting that the new BMW M3 contains what they are calling the "first automotive easter egg" in its transmission control software. Apparently, the proper combination of commands to the electronically controlled manual transmission will cause the car to rev up to 4000rpm and drop the clutch (premitting burnout, which is normally impossible). According to the article, use of the feature more than 15 times voids the warranty in Eurpoe. Other limitations of the "acceleration-assist" feature are discussed in this Car and Driver article. According to popsci, U.S. laws won't allow the warranty limitation, so the U.S. version of the software only revs to 1500rpm, but dealers will install the european software if you ask. The only other mention I could find on the web is here."
....it's was originally called the 'kamikazi dyno', where you trick out the software and the only place you can test it is out on the street.
Messing with software to control a car is not new, and I can think of many 'features' that could qualify as easter eggs, such as holding the pedal down on 1985 Fords with EEC-IV would shut off the injectors, resulting in a no start.
When i turn the key it turns on,then some pretty blue smoke comes out of the tail pipe.
DOnt know why other people dont like it though?
So who else is anticipating the day some idiot tries rolling his own acceleration software and winds up killing a dozen people?
For everyone that has the $141,000 car (*cough*, umm, yeah I have 2) this is how you do it.
1) Disable traction control
2) Select Agressive Shifting mode
3) Hold the shift lever forward for a few seconds
4) Slam the pedal
Your electronically limited to only 30 "acceleration assisted" burn-out's for the life of the clutch (torque converter) and only 1 per hour.
Fun but, for $141,000 I want a damn 5-speed.
According to the article, use of the feature more than 15 times voids the warranty in Eurpoe.
Good thing I don't live in Eurpoe.
Seriously, though, that sounds kind of cool... except it doesn't apply to me. All I care about is getting to 65 by the time I reach the end of an onramp.
Danish != nationality
As I recall the Ford Windstar 2001 has an Easter Egg as well. Flick the windshield wiper on and off 20 times in quick succession and the wiper motor will burst into flames. Ah, those crazy minivan designers, with their silly little pranks.
more on topic:
Crusin' USA for N64
Brake, Brake, Brake, Gas, Brake, Gas - Nitro boost
if only that could be an easter egg in a car!
"the fax machine is nothing but a waffle iron with a phone attached to it." - Grandpa Simpson
Imagine all the CEO's who read this article and thought 'SWEET!' , ran into the car park, got in their beamers and drove out the back of the building to lay a fat one.
Sorry to disappoint (and it would be a waste of a whole slashdot story), but the acceleration assist is documented in the manual.
You need an M3, and you need SMG (the Sequential M Gearbox).
Basically, you stop the car; turn off DSC, change the drive logic to (S6).
Now, hold forward the gear selector, and floor it.
When you release the gear selector you will launch. Get ready to change gear quickly, first gear doesn't last too long. The warm-up lights become "gear change indicators" and flash at you when its time to change gear.
One thing that isn't mentioned in the manual is that if you press the accelerator quickly when setting this up, then it will do a "burn out" start, but if you press it more slowly then you will get a traction controlled start.
Pretty awesome.
And yes, I own an M3.
"Clutchless" manual transmission. No thanks, my left foot works just fine. What's even more irritating is that it looks like you can't even use the old automatic transmission trick of holding your left foot on the brake, and pushing the go pedal until you get the engine up to the torque converter's stall speed and lettting go.....
Of course I'm biased.....I'm still suspicious of the hydraulic clutch in mine.
F1's are optimized for the track and even then the driver sometimes "hints" the transmission. There are also a couple of drivers who still prefer to use a manual. For consumer cars, a 5 or 6 speed is the way to go.
The only thing in consumer cars that can come close to a manual is Audi's Multitronic. Although similar in some ways to belt driven variable shifters found in many hdro-electric cars, Audi's transmission is far more advanced and is designed for performance in mind. Although it gets virtually the same gas mileage and performance as a 5 speed, it's still a tad bid slower and it adds a bit more weight to the car. Audi's other incredible transmission, the Tiptronic, is also very good, but a good driver in a 5 speed will smoke it even in "sports mode".
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
ya see the difference is that this was intentional. and is (kinda) a feature. not something that is added or modded, or something that is just a defect in a shitty car
Title says it all :-)
As a hardcore BMW geek, I am really glad to see the M3 and it's very cool SMGII transmission make it to the front page of Slashdot. For more info, check out:
BMW's Flash SMGII Transmission Presentation
The Unofficial BMW E46 FAQ
I wouldn't call Launch Control an easter egg however. If you explore the BMW Flash presentation, they mention it. While BMW North America said it would be disabled on US cars, as soon as the M3 SMG came over, the first (privilaged lucky bastard) owners tried it out and it worked.
I have a new 325Ci (5 speed) and a previous genneration M3 race car that I built up from a crashed car and used parts. My only regret is that many people view Bimmers as yuppie mobiles, when in fact, they are amazing to drive, very technically advanced and probably the best overall vehicles on the road. Oh well... that feeling goes away when I am at the track or on an empty road.
Freude am Fahren
Manual transmissions are more efficient in transfering power to the wheels than automatics. This is there main advantage. Because of this they will accelerate faster and usually get better gas mileage than automatics. Plus, manuals trannys are a hell of a lot more fun to drive. Give me an stick over and slush box any day.
"I have a porkchop, you have a porkchop. I have a veal, you have a veal".
For the BMW in question, this 'feature' is documented in the owner's manual....not hidden. Hardly an easter egg. But, I'm sure some marketing guy felt enough fools would buy into it if it appeared in print.
And the injector shut-off on the Ford was on purpose, not a defect. The circa 80's XR4Ti had a turbo, and this feature was meant to allow the engine to be spun over after an oil change, so as to allow oil pressure to build in the turbo before actually firing the engine. Not documented and clearly factory designed. One of many, many unknown 'tricks' that exist in many makes of cars over the last +15 years. As an another example, the Corvette has had a very entertaining alarm system for some time now...
I just was just about to go try this out, then I relized this doesn't work on my 15 year old minivan out back. For the price of this car, why don't you just go out and buy a real muscle car, with enough time you could probably write your name in the parking lot. Peeling out is cool, all you have to do is bald your tires!!
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
Spectators are guaranteed to be awestruck. Emergency personnel will probably be confused, until they figure out the explosive devices and determine that the accident was actually an elaborate suicide.
My other first post is car post.
That's a real feature of the transmission.
:-)
NB: the transmission in question is not a normal manual (i.e., with a foot clutch and stick). It's a hybrid auto-manual which has an electronically controlled clutch (i.e., there's no foot pedal since the computer controls the clutch entirely). The gearing is controlled by the computer or (as desired) by two paddles (+/-) along the steering wheel for up/down shift. BMW calls its version SMG (Sequential Manual Gearbox).
Ferrari and F1 cars also have this feature (similar technologies).
The acceleration assist is a genuine feature which basically tells the SMG to accelerate hard from a standstill as a special case (F1 cars also have launch control). It's a genuine feature, not an easter egg.
Cool car, M3!
No current F1 cars have manual transmissions. Last year some (notably BAR) were using clutches for the start. With traction control now legal again in F1 nobody could afford to use a clutch - you'd never win a start.
This article was processed by Cowboy Niels amazing SpelCheker beta 1.1a.
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
Computer: Thank you for pressing the self-destruct button.
President Scroob: Hey Helmet! Check this out! I found an easter egg in the ship's computer.
Computer: nine... eight... six...
Helmet: And a pretty major bug. What happened to seven?
President Scroob: No, Gates said that was a feature.
Computer: Just kidding...
Good. So now if someone trips an easter egg by accident, instead of crashing the boss's computer, they total the car in front of them. Can I sue the manufacturer for this little gem if that happens?
Easter Eggs Bad, people. Easter Eggs major source of bugs. Easter Eggs source of strange, unexplained behavior. Easter Eggs source of the GDMF Doom clone in Excel. Sorry, I've got Doom alredy, I don't need another one taking up hard disk space.
Delete the automotive easter egg and put in something useful. Preferably something that won't raise my insurance rates (anymore than driving a car like this already will).
--GrouchoMarx
Card-carrying member of the EFF, FSF, and ACLU. Are you?
Hints the transmission how, exactly? F1 cars are electro-hydraulic, but that doesn't make them automatic in any way. Right paddle near the steering wheels shifts up, left shifts down.
The transmissions are still very much manually actuated, as FIA rules currently ban the use of auto trannies.
So where's the post detailing a hack to reset or eliminate the 30/lifetime and the 1/hour limits? Oh, and don't forget the 155 mph governor.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
I meant to say the transmissions in the cars are electro-hydraulic, not the cars themselves.
The rules:
Only two wheels may be driven and automatic gearboxes are banned.
Each individual gearchange must be initiated by the driver.
The minimum number of forward gear ratios is 4 and the maximum is 7.
All cars must have a reverse gear operable any time during the race when the car's engine is running.
I do however wonder wtf the advantage of reving to 1500 then dropping the clutch would be... in most modern cars this would be a rather slow stall-start..... hardly any advantage, but cool none the less :)
Is this really an Easter Egg? It strikes me as more of a cheat code. Easter Eggs seem to be pretty but basically useless feature. They often times display the developer's names or give you some little extra bonus. But cheat codes are designed to unlock hidden potentials in the system, to circumvent rules, or basically... to cheat.
[news for me, stuff that doesn't matter]
- no clutch pedal
- computer control
An F-1 pilot picks a gear and presses a button to launch. If he stalls, they have to run out with a laptop to reset the launch sequence. Compared to a '60 falcon with a three speed, this in an automatic transmission, me thinks.Apparently the human, Mr. Slushbox Fanboy.
The Car and Driver article said they beat the SMG M3 by .3 seconds in a manual M3.
There's more to a transmission than how quickly the gears change, sonny.
-Kevin
A friend of mine used to have a yellow Lada Samara estate (big horrible tank of a car). Someone broke into it to steal the radio (being worth more than the car), so he didn't replace it, and never locked his car again.
However, the heater worked even without the key, so every Friday night people on their way back from the pub used to buy kebabs, jump in the car and turn the heater on for a comfortable snack.
...it's a marketing ploy to gain buzz on their product. Too bad the average BMW owner is much smarter than the average marketing guy/girl. BMW's sell themselves, and this kind of thrill write can only serve to cheapen the image.
Don't you all remember the Easter Egg in the De Lorian, triggered by reaching 88mph? I seem to remember that from about 1985.
It is NOT an easter egg...not everything is about computers guys?
:-)
This is a FEATURE called launch control. It was first used in Formula 1 (the definitive form of motor racing) where of course BMW run an engine with the Williams Team. It was only allowed for the first time last season. BMW are cashing in on their F1 success by adding 'launch control' to their sporty saloons.
This is the sort of geek sensationalism that will get neat features banned from cars...this is the same country that nearly put Audi out of business cause yanks couldn't figure out cruise control in the mid 80's.
and while I'm at it
how come geeks know so little about and have such bad taste in cars? Why do geeks think hondas are cool ? How come geeks talk about wanting an electic car but drive v8s? Frys in Silicon valley used to reserve the best parking spaces for electric vehicles now they're back to disabled spots because only professor Frink used them!
for honda think zonda, for a car worthy of the geek moniker think Lotus Elise - revolutionary construction methods, unbelieveably performance and extraordinary fuel efficiency.
Used to be that BMWs were pretty cool machines (both the cars and the bikes). These days the company seem to be pandering more and more to the boy-racer brigade. That's their business, and they know it best, I suppose. What really hurts is knowing that the boy-racer brigade can afford to buy BMWs.
--
"My other car is also a Porsche" (Bumper sticker reported in the Hitchhiker tri5ogy).
.....it's was originally called the 'kamikazi dyno', where you trick out the software and the only place you can test it is out on the street.....
You need to hack the control unit in order to get an accurate dyno reading from an M3, since the front tires need to be spinning at the same rate as the rear wheels. If this isn't the case, the spark timing is retarded quite a bit, reducing horsepower (by quite a lot). The hack supplied by BMW also negates this. Remember to do this prior to putting your new M3 on a dyno.
Also, make sure the dyno shop has a cooling tower. Running a stationary M3 at redline without the proper cooling also invokes the dreaded spark timing retarder. It also might invoke the dreaded Abuse clause in your warranty.
This is one of the things that the 4x4 guys argue about all the time. The thing about it is that the multiplication (in most cases) drops off pretty quickly as you move up the RPM band. As for the five speed thing....what I've found is that many cars with a decently-sized engine don't need that low first gear to get off the line. I rarely use first gear in mine, because it's got enough oomph (242 cid I-6) to get out of the hole okay.
And I agree with the slushbox on a boat......one of the most fun cars I've ever driven was a Chevy Impala SS. *drool*
People have been fucking with car software, since, well since there has been car software. I'm sure people have already crashed 'mod-chipped' cars.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
So it is a documented feature according to some reactions. Here is somebody that didn't read the manual carefully. According to the accompanying text this driver stepped on the gas instead of the brakes, but my guess is she activated the easter egg.
You are wrong. Since a few years ago (since Spain GP 2001), the cars are allowed to use full traction control, launch control and automatic gear changes).
There is still an option of using manual controls, obviously. (Bad things can happen when you are in the middle of the corner and the computer thinks it would be a good idea to downshift).
But I hope they ban these things again ASAP.
800ms to shift...jesus somebody has stick-envy. I drive the biggest piece of shit on the planet and I'm sure I can easily shift in under 200ms. Why someone would pay $3000 for this tranny, plus add the extra weight is beyond me. I'll stick to manuals.
The automatic transmission based on the torque converter is one thing, a computer controlled electro-hydraulically operated manual or sequential gearbox is quite another. The second one should be able to beat a typical driver at least on average.
As many people have mentioned, the article here's easter egg is actually a documented feature. A real bmw easter egg however, is in the e36 models, hold 10 and 1000 buttons on the onboard computer in at the same time. You'll then be prompted for a test number. These 'tests' can display things like litres of fuel in your tank, current speed according to computer etc, which are not normally visible.
check here for a list of what all the tests do.
----
Some people are good with words, others,
Take the shift stick, and shift up,up, down, down, left right left right, brake, gas then turn the key.
God spoke to me
The talking dash version Austin Montego/Maestro had a 'Marvin Paranoid Android Mode' where it complained about the abuse it was receiving from the driver.
The only thing in consumer cars that can come close to a manual is Audi's Multitronic.
What about Continuous Variable Transmission (CVT)? It was invented decades ago by DAF, but a couple of years ago it was forbidden by the FIA, because McLaren proved that this system could win an extra 2 seconds per lap.
or you could buy a proper car, rev the engine to 8000 rpm and drop the clutch yourself.
:).
50 year old execs in their lame-ass pension-mobiles need not apply.
My car, which cost 2.5k (english pounds) will nail the crap out of one of these. And I can burn rubber whenever I want
OK, so it's not an easter-egg, but it's still cool. Here's a description of the "racing start" and "burn-out" modes:
p hp?postid=525686&page=1
:)
http://forums.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e46m3/forum.
I think this is what I like most about BMWs - they take something like a computer-controller clutch, and proceed to build in a bunch of neat features to make use of the new tech. Another example would be opening the windows and sunroof with the remote control. It's definitely a geek-thing.
What I like least about BMWs? The effect that driving a BMW has on a person's road-manners.
I think the idea of computerized manuals is interesting (weren't CVTs going to take over the world?), but it's just more complexity and cost too.
There's something to be said for mechanical/electronic simplicity.
-Kevin
aaarrgghh....
As a software engineer in Australia, this is just waaaaaaaaay out of my reach (and yes, the $141K is the australian base). Super performance with 4 seats, on a smallish wheelbase: perfect for a computer geek in Sydney. Oh to put one of these on the putty road or the old pacific highway...
NetNewsWire into Yojimbo!
huh! funny! Netscape7 kindly remembered the old form data... heading was obviously wrong: should be something like "ooh, drool..."
NetNewsWire into Yojimbo!
I heard somewhere there was an easter egg hidden away in some GMC DeLoreans that enabled time travel, steps go something like:
1. Ensure Mr. Fusion is fitted, if not source Plutonium (In order to supply 1.21 'Jigga'watts)
2. When in front of steering wheel, enable time circuits on mid console... Be sure to check your destination date, year is correct on the dash..
4. Check that Flux capacitor is 'Fluxing'
5. Start driving, aparently when you hit 88 mph the easter egg will activate (indicated usually by a large flash of light) sending you back (or indeed forward) in time.
Please note I have never done this, so i cannot verify its success.
Ok so its a lame post.. oh well..
-- If at first you don't succeed, lie!
you OBVIOUSLY aren't a driver of any capability whatsoever. Torque-converter autos give you NO control over engine braking. Some autos are VERY sophisticated, but nothing like the human brain.
That was classic intercourse!
yes they do, at least in the accepted sense. F1 cars use a manual box with an electro-hydraulic change, and a computer programmable or manual shift. Torque converters they AIN'T.
That was classic intercourse!
The ``easter egg'' will be on the Bimmer's face when it tries to race against the real boys.
BMW (if not others) have had easter eggs in their cars for some time now.
/greg
One example is on my '99 MZ3: if you do the right things when turning on the car, you can get all the gages to move through their entire range of motion.
Another is to play with the radio and modify internal settings.
These kinds of easter eggs are dangerous. I've inadvertantly triggered easter eggs in software, putting un-expected results in a car, especially this type of feature, is nuts.
Give me an stick over and slush box any day. ...except the day that you're sitting in traffic, pumping your left leg up and down on the clutch wildly, throwing your right arm into spamic fits as you try to navigate stop and go traffic.
:)
Then multiply by 5 times a week. 50 weeks a year.
I drive a slushbox for commute, stick for performance. So you're half right.
It's a fairly tame one, but my 1991 Ford F150 with the 6 speaker sound system had a minor easter egg in the radio. There were normally only 6 presets but if you mashed together a pair of presets at once you got access to additional presets. This always seemed to me like it had to be intentional. Whatever radio they built the plastics around had 8 memory locations, but the plastics only had room for 6 buttons. The engineers use combinations of buttons to access the additional presets rather than doing the typical thing which would priority encode them.
Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware
On a straight road I'd go with the new automatics anyday. But seriously till the engines computer knows what curves are comming ahead in the road. I'll trust myself.
Not that I could afford to anyway...
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Umm, dude, C/D does clutchless shifts! This is fine for getting the fastest time 0-60, but I certainly wouldn't do it with my own car. If you don't believe me then read how the magazine obtains it numbers.
Space may be the final frontier, but it's made in a Hollywood basement. --Red Hot Chili Peppers, Californication
absolutely! but this is a feature! it's called flight control. how would using this feature void the warranty if it were unknown? it is hard on the transmission, which is why i am generally not fond of automatics. v8 m3, yummm!
I don't think this qualifies as an easter egg or a design flaw but old Mopars (mid 60's to late 70's) had leakage through the heater blower motor that allowed you to listen to the radio without the keys.
If you hit the brakes, turned on the turn signal, and had the heater motor on any position but off, the radio would work. My friends dad worked for a Dodge dealer in the mid 70's and we used to play around in the cars.
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
This is the most asinine thing I've heard in a while. Are you sure? They can't put a freaking button in the car, or maybe setup some WIFI or something? They have to have a geek run out on the course to reset the computer??
it apperes to me that the article provided lacks details and recearch to support it... The M3 SMG II costs $141,500, with a manual gearbox. That's more than twice as much as the cheapest 3 Series coup well if you check out the www.kbb.com or www.bmw.com you will know that one might get coupe for $30,000 and that sound more resnoble... The engine is an in-line six of 3.2 litres capacity that puts out an almost unholy 252kW of power given there's no turbo or other signs of forced induction. got the units wrong here and M3 comes with tubrbo charger... the fact is that u can buy this car for 50,000...
Who controls the information, controls the world...
It has nothing to do with the computer. F1 cars don't have an electrical starter. It'd be stupid, since they can use an external one to start the car. It would just be deadweight during the race. Even if nowadays they make the car lighter than regulations, it'd be stupid to add a starter because its a weight which they can't move to balance the car.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you
The Ford Aerostar does this without any user input. I've personally witnessed three Flaming Aerostars that spontaneously combusted and I've heard of many more.
------
Objects in Mirror are Losing!
The "floor the gas to turn off the fuel injectors" thing is by design. This feature is also in GM's cars (at least those which used TBI). This is known as the "flood clear" feature. Of course, if you do this while the engine isn't flooded, the car won't start.
Apparently, when I was in USAF and the fleet had just started getting fuel-injected vehicles, airmen used to carbs were tripping this feature... so each "new" vehicle had something like "DO NOT FLOOR GAS PEDAL WHILE STARTING" on the dashboard.
--
Me spell chucker work grate. Need grandma chicken.
When I need software to peel out in a BMW. WTF?
I'm glad James Bond isn't the only one who gets the cool car gadgets!
;)
But a real life "Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang" style "don't push me" secret combination -- that ends up activating a powerful under-seat spring driven airbag -- could be the last mistake you make in a car like this...
If you know where the "hidden buttons" are on the LCD screen of 2001-2003 US Toyota Prius and hit them in the right combination, you can not only access an onboard diagnostic menu, but you can also change this display from the usual English into all Kanji (Japanese) characters.
-mrv
The biggest problem is most consumer price CVTs cant take much torque, the Audi model might be better at this, but the honda CVT is only available for smaller civics.
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
So what happens if you get the embedded-software equivalent of a BSOD in the transmission controller while trying this stunt?
;-)
Hmmm... simultaneous launch of all four wheels in different directions, perhaps?
Loud complaints and cuss-words from the onboard speech synthesizer?
Noises that would make those in 'Chitty Chitty Bang Bang' seem reasonable?
Oh, the possibilities!
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
He lives in Oregon. So you ask, "Do they have black people in Oregon?" Funny you ask... 1.6% of the poulation in Oregon is black, as opposed to New Jersey's 13.6. I bet this guy hasn't seen many black people driving anything.
Still, if you're spending $30k+ on a car, you're a yuppie. I don't care what race you are.
Why should I pay $150k for a car to get the privilege to burn out??
I've got two cars for under $5000 that can do the exact same thing any time I want. [Private/personal] cars have really went downhill in the past 30 years.
One future, two choices. Oppose them or let them destroy us.
There are lots of cars with "easter eggs". I can describe at least half a dozen with Audis that have been around for years. For example, holding down the "5" button on the stereo while turning it on reveals a hidden graphic equalizer (actually two - one for the front and one for the back).
And so on. I'm sure easter eggs aren't limited only to Audis either.
Brake, Brake, Brake, Gas, Brake, Gas - Nitro boost
Has anyone ever tried this one in Simpsons Road Rage?:
Gas, brake, honk. Gas, brake, honk. Honk, honk, punch. Gas, gas gas! (From "King Size Homer")
~Philly
Viola!
What was that? You only have an automatic transmission? You can't drive stick? Then you're up a creek where you belong. The more you let a machine control your car the less control you have and you deserve to be stuck with having to look for these silly Easter Eggs in order to wrest control from the machine to do what you want the car to do.
I used to work at a BMW dealership in the service department. When the first M3 with SMG arrived last winter, there was actually a button just aft of the shifter labelled "LAUNCH." How is this an Easter Egg?
The AC-Delco radio in my 86 Nova (rebadged Corolla) had that too. I thought it was kind of weird, but couldn't figure out why they would build it to do that, because there was no way it didn't COST money to build it that way.
It is a well advertised, well documented feature of the SMG II transmission. It's called "launch control". It's not tricky to do, and it requires you to be in S6 mode to do it at all, afaik.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
You are correct, however the BMW M3 doesn't have an automatic. It is a manual gearbox, with a proper cltuch, and normal gears.
Except the clutch is opened/closed by computer, much faster than any human could do so.
It is _exactly_ like the gearbox in a formula 1 car, it's most similar counterpart in production automobiles is in the ferrarri 360 and f355.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
First off, the SMG gearbox is NOT an automatic. It is an improvement upon a manual gearbox (the computer automatically double-clutches downshifts, etc etc)
secondly, C&D is not known for spectacularly reproducible test conditions or scientific thoroughness.
Finally, the only thing that would make a standard gearbox faster than this one would be less weight, or different gear ratios. I suspect the SMG box is slightly heavier, but do not know that to be the case.
Lets put it this way. On the ferrari SMG gearbox, schumacher had a faster laptime than on the 6 speed in the exact same car. Schumacher is also about the only person who gets a better laptime with ferrari's traction control turned off.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
actually in current formula 1 cars the driver isn't even hitting the paddles anymore, the computer is selecting gears up and down at the appropriate times.
indy car still has manual gear selection by the driver, afaik.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
I think the award for First Automotive Easter Egg definitely goes to Ford for the Pinto.
Hey, any Easter egg where you don't have to use the verbal trigger "Go go Gadget Car!" is an improvement in the technology.
# Users are merely variables. I prefer to comment them out.
Electro-Hydraulic transmissions are computer controlled. F1's are essentially automatic. If you watch F1 you'll notice that only one or two drivers use the paddles to shift. However, drivers can also change the characteristics of the shifting system using controls in the cockpit. This is what I ment by "hinting" the transmission.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
However, couples who have them tend to be emptynesters who dress alike, often color coordinated to match their car.
Thankfully, most Z3 owners are not the uptight snobs like the rest of the bimmer drivers (trolling, flamebait, call it what you will )
Do people consider themselves yuppies anymore? I thought that species died out right before the dotcom boom...
However, unlike most CVTs, it is rated to handle over 200 HP... It is available coupled with the 3.0 liter engine (and the 1.8T) in the A4 and A6 (unfortunately, not coupled with quattro though. Front-drive only).
Indeed. A friend has VAG COM installed on his laptop and he plugged it into the computer port under the steering wheel on my A4. You can monitor just about anything on the car in real time. You can also put the car through diagnostics, make the dials do weird things, etc. And, as you mentioned, you can turn on and off all sorts of features. He turned on a feature that makes the doors automatically lock when you go over 10 MPH, a feature which is normally only enabled on the higher end models. Really cool.
Audi's can easily handle the torque, and that's mainly because they aren't belt driven. Currently they are only available on the A4's (in the US), which boasts 221 lb/ft of torque in the 3.0litre V6 model. A belt driven CVT would definitely snap with this amount of power.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
This is OT but I'll ask it here because you guys seem to know a lot about cars.
/.er who doesn't know much about cars and isn't interested in racing, but likes tech stuff? Something with a lot of cool accessories and automation? Let's say you could spend a lot, $40 or $50K. Thanks!
What would be a good car for a
Not at all. The SMG is much smoother then a normal 6 speed manual. Even in stop and go traffic.
I have an Audi S4, and I love it, but it's a great car with a mediocre tranny - and I have the 6-speed. The Tiptronic is still an automatic, and feels like it. It's much improved with a 'tip chip' that shortens the shift times and makes the shift points more aggressive, but it's still an automatic :/
However, Audi's rumored to be working on a Multitronic-based "sequential manual" style tranny for the next RS4... possibly a 7-speed!
-- "Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin
Wouldn't going "downhill" be beneficial to the speed of the cars??? *rimshot*
*dodges tomatoes*
seriously, though... Any "downward" movement in cars is a result of smaller, more efficient engines, thanks to governmental restrictions. The government doesn't demand a quality vehicle, it demands an efficient one. So now, cheap slow cars are all any domestic companies can make! You want speed, you go foreign. End of story.
for those of you with M3's:
get in car
hold down milage reset
put key in ignition and turn to 2nd position (keep holding down milage reset)
the display will change to test mode
let off the milage reset button and hit it once, it will say 2 on the right side.
let it sit for 2-3sec
hit milage reset again.
=^)... kind of neat. it wont blow up your car or anything lol.. its just kind of neat.
It's "safer" that way.
/troll (for the humor-impaired)
Just like it's "safer" to walk yer bike across an intersection.
Exceeding the recommended torque is not recommended.
the fusible link in the middle of the main wiring harness, all taped together with the rest of the wires. I'm NOT kidding, I can show you where, both in the schamatics and in mine (there's a visible lump under the tape). This is a great way to burn up a van.
Exceeding the recommended torque is not recommended.
The launch control does not simply drop the clutch. Its a controlled slip to maximize acceleration. The launch control is simply put the fastest way to launch the m3. Because it slips the clutch to control wheelspin it does cause ALOT of wear and tear. Hence the limit on using it before your warranty is voided. The computer can more accurately control slippage and torque then any person could manually. While im a fan of using a stick, you still cant beat the computer. Having the computer do it for you isnt nearly as fun though.
Nothing more to see here, move along...
Exceeding the recommended torque is not recommended.
Well, you really only have to change two things. Traction control, and the shift personality. If you don't kill the traction control (usually a good thing, IMO), it'll keep the wheels from burning out. You also have to tell the tranny to trust you, though it obviously shouldn't.
There are CVT's that can survive in high-power applications. A race-prepped Nissan Skyline recently was tested with an "8-speed" CVT with preset gear ratios on the pulleys. For people who don't know cars (many of the people that read this site.), Nissan Skylines are probably the best sports car in Japan and are widely known for their great handling from 4-wheel steering and full-time all wheel drive, and the bulletproof drivetrain.
I really want a Skyline or at least to drive one (Gran Turismo does not count). Nissan would have done quite well bringing them to the states, they seem like the ideal 3 series killer.
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
I sold BMWs for a few months back in the early nineties. (One of the coolest experiences of my life even though the dealership was going under and I nearly went bankrupt for the chance to play with such cool toys.) I got to be pretty good friends with the regional technical trainer (or whatever they called them) for our region. (He was a tech/engineering geek and I think he liked me because, unlike most of the salesmen, I wasn't there just to make a buck. I genuinely loved the cars and the technology and engineering that went into them.) With a name like Dietz Froelich, I figured he knew what he was talking about, too. ;-)
Anyway, there was constant debate amongst the salesmen over whether it was fact or myth that in the 8 series, when you reached 110 mph, the windows and sunroof would close automatically (to prevent the horrendous wind buffeting in the cabin resulting from the small size and aerodynamic shape of the car's interior.) I searched all the tech documentation and found no mention so I asked Dietz to settle it for me. He merely smiled and said, "I wouldn't know. It's not documented and it's illegal to drive that fast in your country. Whenever I've driven an 8 series that fast on the Autobahn I was always smart enough to have the windows and sunroof already closed."
So... we had an 850 on the lot that was over a year old and still never titled. (As I said, the dealership was going under.) It had to be driven every so often to keep the batteries (it has two) charged so that on the rare occasions someone was genuinely interested in it, it would start. One beautiful summer day I talked the sales manager into letting me take it to lunch. He reminded me that I would be working nearly two years at my current earnings level to pay for it and tossed me the key. (He was a pretty nervous guy by nature. I was shocked he actually let me take it.)
Of course I immediately opened the windows and sunroof and headed out to a stretch of smooth, open country highway near the dealership.
He nearly fainted when I came back in, threw the key on his desk and said casually over my shoulder, "The windows and sunroof thing is true."
Man, those were the days.
I don't even want to think about what a disgruntled programmer could do to my car. And just wait until all our cars are "wired" for 'net. Hacking really could become a matetr of life and death.
Like most Software people here in Oz, we could get 3x as much in the US or Europe. But that would mean leaving Australia - and I for one don't think it's worth it (having done 5 years in Germany, the US etc).
Zoe Brain - Rocket Scientist
... the hack that clears the counter that tracks how many times you've done this. :)
-- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
I don't have one of the rice-rockets or one of the various expensive eurosports coupes or sedans. Just a plain old Mustang with a 4.6 and a 5 speed (and only a mediocre rear end at 3.27) and no gotterdamerung ABS. But it's a hell of a lot of fun to drive hard and a bit of a challenge to handle winding down nice backwoods roads.
Sure, I could have a faster gearbox, an OEM supercharger, a lower ratio rear end, a dropped and tunable suspension, etc. (And I suppose I'd enjoy the 5.4L engine...)
But the fun of driving the car is in seeing what you can do with the hardware available. The skill of the driver isn't in having the most expensive hardware, its making the best use of the available hardware.
And having fun!
-- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
But being a "yank," and no disrespect to the Europeans, I like this [link to viper] better. And yeah, it's got a real clutch. :-D
Yeah, the Viper's kinda nice. A clutch, some serious rubber on the road, some cubes under the hood, and a roaring powerhouse of an engine.
But having said all that, it *is* still a Dodge.....
-- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
A good modern automatic is as fast or faster than a manual, and one heck of a lot easier to drive in heavy traffic.
I may not ever buy another car with a manual transmission, and as a Ferrari owner (308gt4 with a 5-speed, of course) I consider myself a pretty serious car guy. I have nothing against manuals (other than they're a pain in a daily driver), but I don't see anything mystical about them either.
With today's tranny tech, there's really no reason to have to put up with the downsides of a manual slushbox anymore. Automatics (whether auto-shifted manuals, high-performance automatics, or CVT designs like Audi's new one that is finally able to take non-trivial torque) are faster, easier, and better in pretty much every respect. If they weren't superior, you wouldn't find people willing to pay a serious premium for them on new Ferraris, and wouldn't find them used on every competitive F1 car. The battle is over, and in the realm pf real performance, the manual tranny is history.
I'm personally convinced that if the weenies at the car magazines quit acting like manuals are required on serious sports cars, they'd die out in a few years. I expect they'll be pretty dead in another decade, anyway, and people will wonder why anyone would want to shift those "old cars" just the same way as we look at old Model Ts and think what a pain it must have been to have to continually adjust the spark with that lever on the steering column.
People lamented the passing of that anachronism, too, but not for long. It's time for the manual transmission to go.
"The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last
Yeah, maybe a little offtopic but you need to be warned. My wife, bless her heart, bought me a Z3. I HATE, HATE, HATE the thing. The performance is OK but I get a terrible BACKACHE every time I occupy the car for more than 20 minutes or so. Who TF designed this piece of sludge. My legs, knees, and feet are butt up against hardwood. The seat doesn't go back. I would never tell my wife -- but Gawd I wish I hadn't let her talk me in to trading in my comfy (and 1/2 as expensive) '93 5.0 Mustang!!
That would have had a whole lot more effect if you understood that Audi's multitronic CVT is actually quicker than the manual transmission version. It' s not an economy-oriented compromise in any way.
Of course, if you'd stopped running off your mouth to think about it for a second, you'd have realized that a CVT is quicker than a manual because it NEVER UNCOUPLES THE ENGINE from the output shaft, as you must when shifting a manual (even when you shift without (de)clutching, you still momentarily uncouple the transmission).
Umm, no, the multitronic is not slower. It's quicker than the manual transmission because you never uncouple to engine from the transmission to shift gears.
Look at the stats. In some situations the multitronic can outshift a professional on a 5 speed, but this is generally not the case. It also get's slightly less mileage on certain engines.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
and got his first stock a month before Win3 was released.
Personally the way to do it is
1. Accelerate to at least 75 miles an hour
2. Go through Gilroy on 101
3. Wait till the speed limit drops to 55
4. Make sure the road is wet
5. Try desperately to make the turn after the ecalyptis
5. Lose control and hit concrete divider
6. crush lower vertebrae
7. Have car skid along divider for 15 feet
8. Have divider scrape open fuel line and create sparks
9. Stagger out of burning car, taking laptop from passenger seat, and walk 20 feet forward before collapsing in agony
10. Moan
11. Moan
12. then press 911 on your keypad
Gryftir
"I want to live forever, or die trying" Saint Yossarian
http://www.santacruzbynight.com/index.shtml Santa Cruz By Night Vampire Larp
Yes, we can always leave... I spent a SHORT time in the US, and on return I was praising Sydney's previously-too-humid air! :) I'm originally from Holland, and am now having a hard time thinking of living anywhwere else but Australia (in my case Sydney).
Anyway, different topic... might be interesting.
NetNewsWire into Yojimbo!
Come on, KNOW something before wasting your time posting.
I asked a question, you insensitive *&%$# !!!
Since when am I supposed to know the answer before I can ask a question?
No. CVT is continuously variable, but typical CVT applications (multitronic included) include preset gear ratios to mimic a traditional automatic tranny - or, for that matter, a SMG. CVT can also do really cool things, like hold you at the horsepower peak (by continuously changing the gear ratio) for great acceleration.
If Audi did an "SMG" it might actually be based on a CVT rather than a true sequential manual. They'll eventually beef up the multitronic's capabilities though.
The S4's shifter is good once you replace it (I have a tanoga short-shift and a drivetrain stabilizer) but stock it's kinda lame.
-- "Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin
Every review of the multitronic I've seen has the multitronic beating out the manual slightly...but hey, like so many other things, YMMV...
but hey, like so many other things, YMMV
:-).
In the most literal sense, yes
From Audi's 2002 A4 Brochure:
A4 1.8T FrontTrak:
Performance (0-60):
-5 speed: 7.8sec
-Multitronic: 7.8sec
Economy (city/highway):
-5 speed: 22/31
-Multitronic: 20/29
We can't compare it on the 3.0 engine because the manual transmission only comes with Quattro, and Multitronic only comes with the FrontTrak drive train. One other thing to note is that the multitronic adds a good 110 pounds to the cars curb weight. This all being said, this is just the first generation of multitronic. I have full confidence that Audi will blow the sox off of a manual by the second or third generation of this technology.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
It is so much easier to deal with a stick in traffic if you are willing to give a little space in front of you and just smoothly drive. Watch the truckers. It's also less stressful... Hmmm... -Guy
Ah. You need to turn OFF software to peel out in a BMW. Blame it on our Litigation happy world. On the other hand, if you want to launch to the best of the car's ability, faster then you could by yourself, then you need computers to help. The drag racers know that peeling out is the last think you need to do to launch quickly. Watch a drag race sometime. When they mess up, they "go up in smoke". When you see no tire smoke, they launch correctly. Now, BMW allows you to have one of those E-Ticket rides without the fancy drag tires. Just tell the computer to do it. A drag racer has to replace $5,000 worth of parts for one 5 second run. You get 15 or so starts before you need a new clutch. Computers sometimes are actually useful... -Guy
When the Apple IIc was introduced, the informative copy led off with a couple
of asterisked sentences:
It weighs less than 8 pounds.*
And costs less than $1,300.**
In tiny type were these "fuller explanations":
* Don't asterisks make you suspicious as all get out? Well, all
this means is that the IIc alone weights 7.5 pounds. The power
pack, monitor, an extra disk drive, a printer and several bricks
will make the IIc weigh more. Our lawyers were concerned that you
might not be able to figure this out for yourself.
** The FTC is concerned about price fixing. You can pay more if
you really want to. Or less.
-- Forbes
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