Windows XP Tablet PC Edition

WallsRSolid writes "Microsoft just finished a week-long series of lectures and demos at my university, and the product that really stole the show was the Tablet PC. I was in a room with probably 150 hardcore linux users, and it seemed to me that the demonstration just floored them (the entire lecture hall CHEERED a Microsoft product). I believe that Microsoft's own online hype literature is insufficient in describing just how powerful their Tablet concept is. A July preview, Acer's propaganda, a press release about their initial success, and a behind-the-scenes account (good article) of the enabling technology. Oh, and the input stylus is electromagnetic, not pressure-sensing, ANY document (not just MS) can be annotated, and the journal software is AMAZING in its power and flexibility."

Comments

Actually a new business-model!

[Anonymous Coward]

1: Write free software.
2: ?
3: Make proprietary software.
4: Profit!

Re:Actually a new business-model!

[brain159]

They've choosen to give it away, you say? Could you explain what that's all aboot?

hmmm

[Em Emalb]

I do believe the earth just ripped open, pigs have wings, and it might just be me, but it's awful cold down here....

Wondering what's a Tablet PC?

[tiltowait]

Tablet PCs are touch screens with handwriting recognition that run software just like a desktop personal computer. Early designs have been released and the first generation of models are expected to hit the market in late 2002. read and learn more.

Re:Wondering what's a Tablet PC?

[Ivan Raikov]

[...] Early designs have been released and the first generation of models are expected to hit the market in late 2002.

Uh, no. The IBM ThinkPad 710 was out in 1993, and it featured an electromagnetic stylus. Once again, no innovation whatsoever on part of Microsoft.

Re:Wondering what's a Tablet PC?

[Anonymous Coward]

The whole innovation behind this has nothing to do with the electrostatic input device. MSoft is not in the business of sensors. Plenty of devices have had these kinds of input screens.

IBM just used it ala mouse-input. Microsoft is allowing people to use digital ink as a first class citizen in the computing world. It's a whole new way of looking at computing.

TabletPC is not some sort of handwriting recognition on steroids, it is a way of combining standard text with ink-based input, and allowing you to freely go between the two without effort.

Re:Wondering what's a Tablet PC?

[Ivan Raikov]

IBM just used it ala mouse-input. Microsoft is allowing people to use digital ink as a first class citizen in the computing world. It's a whole new way of looking at computing.

I don't speak marketing weaselese, so I don't know what "digital ink" is, but IBM had a little application that let you write with the stylus in say, a text entry box, and it would convert it to text on the fly. I'm also pretty sure Apple Newton did the same thing, and before that a research group in Stanford was developing similar principles. A whole new way of looking at computing? I think not.

Re:Wondering what's a Tablet PC?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, and you could detach the Thinkpad's monitor (without minor surgery) and take it into another room and wirelessly continue to use it. It seems to me they've had this on on Star Trek for a lot longer than that, but it could be me. Of course, ST's not reality, now is it?

And, of course, you could run all of your PC applications on the Apple Newton. I'm sure you're convinced that back then you could hack it and somehow get it to run X86 code?

And, Linux is a completely new way of computing... You create an OS based on many commercial and collegiate products, you make it run on your PC because you can't afford to buy a computer that typically runs unix. Then you write a bunch of software that is almost a complete copy of everything available for unix. Then linux software continues to "evolve" and a bunch of software that is a direct clone of Windows software is created. Most of this is distributed as "open source" freeware that prevents anyone from using it in a commercial product without releasing all of their source code (because, clearly it is innovation that can't and shouldn't be incorporated into anything that is sold). With the craving for free stuff (and if it's not currently free, write your own and distribute it for free) people are striving for some real innovation. Trying to sabotage the commercial software industry they work for! HUH??! Why would you do that?

Companies that sell products they've spent countless hours developing get to see the open source community "innovate" by cloning their software and giving it away?!? There seems to be an alterior motive there that is not completely stable. It's one thing to give away software using code that you've entirely developed, but if you clone someone else's GUI's or someone else's file formats... Are you violating their copyright? They can't use your stuff in their source code without releasing all of their source code, but you can reverse engineer or clone their stuff and openly distribute it?1?!

I'll buy the whole anti-Microsoft BS this forum tends to attract when Linux actually begins to widely innovate. What the heck is so new about creating a glorified unix emulator to run unix and emulated windows programs?

On the other hand, instead of MINDLESSLY flaming Microsoft, again and again, you COULD write a free way to run it (the tablet PC hardware) in Linux, as well as reverse engineer Microsoft's "digital ink", that way you could buy the product, which you probably want regardless of what you'll publicly say on this forum, and use it in your house to write idiotic comments on /. with which, is of course, your freedom of choice. You can write them in any OS you want to! That way you can brag to your friends that you "hacked" (cloned copyrighted software) a Microsoft product and are nearing completion of the next open source product that will drive M$ out of business!

And of course, all the common folk will come flocking to you (for free) and ignore all of that Multi-billion dollar corporation BS from Microsoft... that is, of course, until you're a day late in getting out of beta. Plus, now that you've driven Microsoft out of business we can just all build our own proprietary platforms and not have to worry about those stupid standards that have made PCs so cheap to tinker with.

That would be a heck of a new way to look at computing! Shut the hell up!

Re:Wondering what's a Tablet PC?

[GlenRaphael]

Microsoft is allowing people to use digital ink as a first class citizen in the computing world. It's a whole new way of looking at computing.

Bill Gates rolls out the "Tablet PC" concept every few years at his CES presentations, and it's always been a minor reinvention of the Apple Newton presented as if Microsoft had thought of it on their own. Reflowable "ink text" could be used almost everywhere on the Newton that you could use printed text. There are a few fun new features in Tablet PC but nothing I've seen justifies the "whole new way of looking at computing" rhetoric. However, even if the core ideas aren't original, they are still important. I'm glad somebody with deep pockets is reinventing the Newton Notepad concept because it was a really great way to take notes and Apple seems to have abandoned the technology.

Oh, and about that electromagnetic sensor: Early researchers in pen computing noticed that when peaple write on a large pad of paper they tend to rest the heel of their hand on it. This interferes with accurate touch-screen input and is why the AT&T Eo and the tablet-sized prototype Newton called "Bic" and other early attempts at large-screen recognition used electromagnetic input.

Re:Wondering what's a Tablet PC?

[cmeans]

Don't forget about the Compaq Concerto. I've still got mine...a wonderful machine that ran Pen Windows (an OEM'd extension of Windows v3.1), but it was possible to upgrade it to Win95 without too much trouble. (It was even a small feature of the movie Die Hard 3...remeber the machine controlling the bomb in the park?)

Re:Wondering what's a Tablet PC?

[Ivan Raikov]

Here's a nice, big photograph of the TP 710T for moderators who modded this as a troll. I have a 710T at home.

Re:Wondering what's a Tablet PC?

[leiz]

Don't forget the Crosspads with IBM's handwriting recognition software.

Re:Wondering what's a Tablet PC?

[0xdeadbeef]

IBM just used it ala mouse-input. Microsoft is allowing people to use digital ink as a first class citizen in the computing world. It's a whole new way of looking at computing.

Didn't they fire you for those falsified 'switch' promotions? You should perhaps quit drinking the digital ink.

Remember kids, service guarantees citizenship!

Re:Wondering what's a Tablet PC?

[funwithstuff]

I'm glad somebody with deep pockets is reinventing the Newton Notepad concept because it was a really great way to take notes and Apple seems to have abandoned the technology.

No, they just ditched the Newton. The handwriting recognition is alive and well in Mac OS X 10.2 (Jaguar), rechristened "Inkwell". Works in any app, using a Wacom tablet. Apple would be well placed to do a tablet of their own if they want to - anyone for a Powerbook without a lid?

Re:Wondering what's a Tablet PC?

[Zeinfeld]

Bill Gates rolls out the "Tablet PC" concept every few years at his CES presentations, and it's always been a minor reinvention of the Apple Newton presented as if Microsoft had thought of it on their own. Reflowable

You just don't get it. The Newton was a piece of crud that failed because the technology was crap. Doonesbury and Scott Adams were not being unfair in their cartoons, 'Weave me a cone you cupid bat' is much closer to the intended text than most newton users ever got.

Bill keeps comming back to the tablet PC idea because he wants one. That is the reason why Microsoft does most of the things it does, his Billship has thought something is kewl and should exist at an affordable price.

Examples in the hardware area include the 'natural' keyboard and the force feedback joystick. These both existed before Gates pushed Microsoft into making them but they were expensive nich market products.

Most engineering is incremental development rather than a paradigm shift. Applying the same logic as is applied by the slashweenies, one could claim that Tim B-L only improved Ted Nelson's ideas in Xanadu. But this ignores the fact that Xanadu was unusuable and never even got to market in any form. Tim made major contributions that were critical to making the thing work.

Apple failed in a way many Microsoft competitors fail, they pumped too much of their research dollars into science fiction projects and too little into incremental development of their platform. From sacking Jobs through to rehiring him Apple was asleep at the switch on MacOS, even though protected memory and decent multitasking were clearly needed desperately.

Finaly, nobody seems to fault Lotus for buying in Notes from Iris who had originaly bought the technology from DEC.

Re:Wondering what's a Tablet PC?

[cmeans]

Yes, it seems like a standard PS/2 connection, however, I've not been able to get both a keyboard and mouse to work at the same time using a splitter. I didn't try too hard, so that doesn't mean it's not possible.

Re:Wondering what's a Tablet PC?

[WNight]

Win95 is better on a P4 than on a 486 but we don't attribute that gain to Microsoft.

If their Tablet PC is any better it's simply because technology has enabled better handwriting recognition.

This is precisely Microsoft innovation. They release the same product that other companies have (usually after buying those companies or suing them out of business and buying the parts) and claim to have invented it. Microsoft claimed that Doublespace was an *INNOVATION*, even when the court case with Stacker, for them outright stealing 100% of it, was in progress.

That's the only real MS innovation.

Re:Wondering what's a Tablet PC?

[GlenRaphael]

I'm glad somebody with deep pockets is reinventing the Newton Notepad concept because it was a really great way to take notes and Apple seems to have abandoned the technology.

No, they just ditched the Newton. The handwriting recognition is alive and well in Mac OS X

For me, the important part of the Newton Notepad was not really the handwriting recognition, it was the idea of a free-form notetaking environment in which one can fluidly edit and mix multiple kinds of information (recognized text, reflowable ink text, recognized shapes and sketch ink). The best part was the set of editing gestures that let one use a stylus alone - no buttons! - to fluidly move things around, copy, cut, paste, insert and delete. My biggest disappointment when I saw BillG's COMDEX keynote was when I saw him pop up an edit menu to copy some text - that told me either he still doesn't get it or wasn't willing to tread too closely to Apple's IP.

On the other hand, the part I LOVED in the early Tablet PC demo was that the OS apparently keeps around a set of recognition guesses in the ink text structure so you can do an application level "find" command and find specified strings within a block of handwritten ink text. That was cool. Also I liked the additions of "circled" and "yellow highlighted" text attributes that look natural and reflow cleanly, and I liked the ability to add editing notations in the margins that point to a specific text section.

Does Inkwell include support for editing gestures (such as "scrub" to delete a region) and ink text?

Cheering for Microsoft? Nope...

[KeatonMill]

I doubt they cheered because it was Microsoft, but because it was a tablet PC. As the article says, people have been trying to make an effective tablet PC for years. Maybe Microsoft will *&@% it up, but at least now we know that it CAN be done, and maybe other companies will figure out how to do it as well. I hope

My problem with M$...

[kitzilla]

...is their desktop OS monopoly, not than their applications. If they've done something cool, power to 'em. It'll be amusing seeing somebody copying M$, rather than the other way around.

Re:My problem with M$...

[Ivan Raikov]

It'll be amusing seeing somebody copying M$, rather than the other way around.

In this case, it's a little too late -- IBM ThinkPad 710T precedes this Microsoft product by about nine years.

Re:My problem with M$...

[b17bmbr]

i beleive the newton from mac did this like 10 years ago, but the procesors weren't fast enough to keep up with handwriting recognition.

so much for m$ innovation.

Re:My problem with M$...

[ergo98]

If you're going to bring the Newton into it, then it should be noted that Pocket PCs, such as my Toshiba e310, let you write out cursive text and it converts it to text. It does a fairly good job of it as well.

Of course I prefer the keyboard anyones. My handwriting, like most nerds brought up on a lifetime of computers and typing, is absolutely positively atrocious.

Re:My problem with M$...

[cscx]

Sure Linux let's you use the pen as a mouse, big deal. There is no inking handwriting recognition software (from what I hear, it took MS a long time to perfect it).

how long..

[EvilStein]

before:
1)People get one and install Linux onto it (eleven seconds)
2)Someone tries to make a beowulf cluster (fourteen minutes)
3)We see them on eBay (4 days)
4)That hinge thing on the Acer one gets broken (0.5345 seconds after the warranty expires)

Re:how long..

[BabyDave]

1)People get one and install Linux onto it (eleven seconds)

1a) The first one gets Slashdotted (11.00001 seconds)

Re:how long..

[Gleng]

5) Windows XP hangs with a DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL blue screen (after 2 days; every 5 minutes)

6) Time spent reinstalling all your software and settings (8 hours)

7) goto 5

Re:how long..

[image]

> People get one and install Linux onto it (eleven seconds)

The interesting thing about this is that the tablet PC may be a more powerful tool running Windows XP than it would be running Linux. Much as we all like to talk about how MS doesn't innovate, their work on handwriting recognition may actually be years ahead of any open-source alternative.

Of course, if I had one I'd *still* install Linux on it. In a partition. Take notes and use the pen in XP, and write code via the keyboard under Linux. Then again, you can use xemacs under Windows, so sometimes even the reboot may be more trouble than it is worth. I'm willing to give proper credit to MS for bringing the next generation of portable technologies to the masses -- and it may even be worth the cost, in terms of absolutely absurd and offensive licensing practices.

Re:how long..

[EvilStein]

bwahahahaha... if I cod mod & post in the same topic, I'd mod that up. hehehe...

Re:how long..

[obidobi]

I got that error when mixing PC100 and PC133 memory. Maby that's your problem to?

Re:how long..

[tswinzig]

1)People get one and install Linux onto it (eleven seconds)

1b) People get handwriting recognition on their Linux version (eleven years)

Re:how long..

[Rysc]

6.5) Windows trolls post on Slashdot how Win XP works for them, because they've configured it properly, and if it doesn't work for you, surely you don't know what you're doing.

Wait... isn't that what Linux users normally say about Linux?

Re:how long..

[thumperward]

I had that. Really fun figuring out what the problem was.

Incidentally, for the record, the amount of rabid, anti-MS garbage on this thread is quite staggering. As is the amount of moderation points that have been spent on making "I bet it crashes! LOL" posts +5 Funny.

- Chris

Re:how long..

[mirko]

People get handwriting recognition on their Linux version (eleven years)

Sorry, my Sharp Zaurus actually runs Linux and has a better handwriting recognition than my Palm had.

Re:how long..

[CoolVibe]

Some people consider Microsoft to be harmful. Sounds like a great match to me ;)

Re:how long..

[Hast]

They're not the only ones making high quality handwriting recognition software. I know that a smallish company around here (Decuma) has done some major progress in the area as well. Last I heard they got a lot of good press in eg Japan.

Now this is not free software, and it's made for PocketPC as of now. But apparently there's contenders out there who are on the same level as Microsoft.

What I'd like to see is software like this ported to Linux. Even if I have to pay for it at least it would then give me an alternative. I no longer would have to chose between Windows and good hand writing or Linux and crappy hand writing. A tablet PC is one of the things I /really/ want, but I don't want one that is crippled.

Re:how long..

[WNight]

When Win2k gave me that error I couldn't make it install. Always died during the text phase of the install.

Mandrake 8.2 installed perfectly, detected all of my hardware, and let me get online to find out what was wrong with Win2k.

But yeah, it was a hardware problem. Sure.

So I never bothered going back to 2k.

Almost there

[Joe U]

Acer just needs to add more RAM and and DVD video into their tablet and this will be a laptop (and portable DVD player) killer product.

Re:Almost there

[BigJimSlade]

Acer just needs to add more RAM and and DVD video into their tablet and this will be a laptop (and portable DVD player) killer product.

That and drop the estimated retail price of $4500 down a bit. That should do it.

timing

[ayeco]

Why is it that a tablet pc now gets cheers, as compared to a few years ago when all attempts for a tablet product fell on deaf ears (besides specialized applications)?

Since the PDA craze is still hot, I suppose a new piece of hardware with some new, nifty software features is enough to get this thing some thumbs up. I've always wondered why there weren't hinges on laptops like this one. It seems like a no brainer (touch screen or not - a mouse/stick/pad on the side of the screen would have worked too).

It all about timing. Flexibility is finally "in".

Re:timing

[cornjchob]

A few years ago, the miniaturization and processing power just weren't there, let alone the LCD capabilities. You need the miniaturization because you need smaller components to run cooler; a proc that's running at 120 directly behind an lcd screen will probably do more bad than good. You'll need the processing power because good handwriting recognition/speech recognition requires a relatively good amount of it, not to mention very good algorithims and a lot of RAM to store the reference characters in. And to make LCD screens that large with LCD screen drivers that small is an accomplishment in and of itself. Sometimes the public isn't ready because the product isn't ready.

Tablet PCs Are Nothing New

[Anonymous Coward]

Hellooooo... These are nothing new. I've had a Stylistic 1200 for years now, with the battery stylus, I'd prefer touch instead. Been running WinXX variant on it as well as different Linux dists. Nothing new here. More powerful, sure. Bigger screen, yep. But "Microsoft's concept"? Please. Not to mention they're taking a generic term, "tablet PC" and trying to make it a branding of their own product. Ridiculous.

Re:Tablet PCs Are Nothing New

[Wylfing]

I've had a Stylistic 1200 [the-labs.com] for years now, with the battery stylus, I'd prefer touch instead. Been running WinXX variant on it as well as different Linux dists. Nothing new here. More powerful, sure. Bigger screen, yep. But "Microsoft's concept"? Please.

This is SOP for Microsoft, though. They always destroy someone else's innovative technology via the usual anticompetitive means (or just plain FUD), then release that same technology a few years later amid great fanfare as if it is a great new idea from Microsoft.

Re:Tablet PCs Are Nothing New

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing new here?? Did you read the article? Try the MSR artcile. What's new here is the "ink text." It lets you store your article as in digital ink text and drawing. Plus you'll be able to edit & search your text later. Letters written in ink text are NOT stored as typed letters. Get it?

Re:Tablet PCs Are Nothing New

[tswinzig]

The keys to why Microsoft will be successful:

1) Good handwriting recognition.
2) Office w/good handwriting integration.
3) Developers, developers, developers...

Re:Tablet PCs Are Nothing New

[Gumber]

I don't think the fact that ink text isn't stores as typed letters is a good thing. What happens when you get passed someone elses ink notes? Are you really going to be able to read their handwriting?

Re:Tablet PCs Are Nothing New

[aussersterne]

Don't spout about that which you don't know.

I used to annotate my documents using digital ink editing marks and notes and digital ink diagrams as well as write some documents using natural handwriting recognition on my Fujitsu Stylistic using PenOffice. This particular model was more half a decade old -- it had a Pentium 100 CPU and an 800x600 display and ran Windows 95 + Office 95.

This is nothing new.

What happened to my Stylistic running Windows 95? I replaced it with an Apple Newton, yet another product which allows you to store digital in annotations and sketches for office documents and then recognize them later if you wish, but which is half the size of the Stylistic. The Newton 2000 was also released half more than half a decade ago. The Newton even has a cute "digital ink eraser" technique for editing your sketches and annotations.

Most of the technology Microsft is demonstrating right now has been licensed from existing products (like PenOffice and Calligrapher) that have been on the market for years already. It's not exactly a secret.

Yes, we read the article. But do you know what you're talking about?

Re:Tablet PCs Are Nothing New

[cmeans]

There was no mention (that I recall) of having to train the software to recognize handwriting (or even train the user), so there's a good likelyhood that digital ink notes can be passed around easily...they would be much more useful that way...

This could also lead to an actual Digital (Ink) Signature...though M$ isn't exactly on the forefront of secure technologies, and there'd need to be ways to verify the signature was "hand entered" verses just pasted in.

Re:Tablet PCs Are Nothing New

[walterbyrd]

4) Marketing.

Credit Where it's Due

[Gleng]

I hate Microsoft not because of any moral high ground, but because of their shoddy products and suspect business practices.

If they fairly produce a product that is useful and works well -- standing on it's own merits, then I say good luck to them.

I must say though, I'll believe a good Microsoft product when I actually see it for myself. ;)

Re:Credit Where it's Due

[eno2001]

I know people are going to slay me here for this, so let me preface this comment:
1. I do not use Microsoft products on any of my personal machines (All of my machines at home have Linux with GNOME, and Open BSD here thank you very much)
2. I don't agree with Microsoft's licensing, pricing or business practices.
3. I only use XP at work and on the laptop that my job provided me with. Doesn't cost me a cent...

But... Windows XP Professional is the best product I've seen come out of Microsoft. It offers features that make working VERY easy. The revamp of the Start menu is very well thought out. It provides immediate and easy access to the applications that you use the most (In my case Cygwin bash and Cygwin X Server, CMD, Windows Remote Desktop, Cicso VPN client) by listing them directly on the Start menu in order of the frequency of usage. It also provides immediate access to IE and OE, (if you use them. I removed them from the menu and use Phoenix. My mail client is still Evolution via X) as well as the typically accessed:
-My Documents
-My Recently used Documents
-My Pictures
-My Music
-My Computer
-My Network Places
-Control Panels
-Administrative Tools
-Connect to... (An agreggate of dial-up, WLAN and LAN connections tha tyou can choose from. Very helpful for laptop users to allow quick connect/disconnect)
-Printers and Faxes (Combines the old Printers and Faxes applets which used to be separate)

and of course:

-Search (hate the little dog though..)
-Run... (By far the most useful menu option for accessing remote file shares, the CMD prompt and quick access to notepad)

Then it also has the "All Programs" sub menu which gives you access to the rest of the less used programs on the system.

The Log Off button makes logging out (or even suspending a session to let someone else log on) a snap.

I'd have to say that Windows XP really makes some great improvements on Windows 2K. Anyone who has problems with Windows XP Pro, is probably fairly inflexible. Keep in mind, I am not saying that such a person is not bad. Mac users are fairly inflexible in that they don't want to move from their GUI paradigm to the Windows paradigm. Most of my co-workers (Windows fans all of them) don't like XP either and always go back to Classic View. I forced myself to stay with the native XP view and have found that it is actually a lot faster than Classic View once you know where everything is. as much as I hate to say it, MS did a great job with XP. I haven't had any problems with it so far.

I think that we developers in the Linux/OSS/GNU world need to take a good look at XP and see what it offers that we can improve upon. We already know that Linux/UNIX is stable, secure, robust, etc... Those are important factors. But so are the factors that real users see: Ease of use, quick and efficient ways to access data and applications, intelligent environments. For anyone who is working on developing software for "Joe Average", we need to think about having the apps learn their user's usage style. Not in the annoying way that MS does it. MS tends to be application-centric with regard to intelligent applications (that learn what you do). The intelligent applications should be user-centric. Where they learn what a user does, and rather than suggest or force the user to do something (Office assistant and the Start menu listing the most recently used applications), it builds a list of options and notifies the user with a dialog to select the way that they want to do the task. The dialog can be dismissed or filled in and submitted. The machine won't have a need to ask the user about that approach again. Just a simple example. The point is that MS is getting better at doing what the users want. We as developers for the "other side" can't forget that the users are what matter, not the apps or the OS...

Old News

[llamaluvr]

Tablet PC?! Electromagnetic input pen?! I'm pretty sure Fisher-Price made the same thing like 25 years ago!

Re:Old News

[Anonymous DWord]

That would be awesome to take into a big business meeting. Everyone's all serious and taking little notes and getting phone numbers, and you're drawing pictures of airplanes. "BRRROOOM!"

Re:Old News

[Soul-Burn666]

That system is really insecure.

One slide of the button deletes your whole work!

Re:Old News

[swankypimp]

One slide of the button deletes your whole work!

On reboot, try:
fsck -y /dev/etch0

What's wrong with a keyboard?

[sitturat]

I don't know why people think a keyboard is such a bad thing. I can type much better than I can write, and I expect that goes for most PC users under the age of 50.

My laptop gives me amazing mobility. I can even use it without having a desk by putting it on my lap (hence the name LAPtop).

I just don't understand what is so revolutionary about the Tablet PC. Can someone please enlighten me?

Re:What's wrong with a keyboard?

[Anonymous DWord]

Nothing's wrong with a keyboard. That's why it has one. But having worked in places where people can't type as well as they can write (and I assure you I wouldn't go with "most" for describing the alternate), I can see why people would like this. Some people write much better than they type. Some people want to just speak and have their words appear. I don't want to be a fanboy of a product that's not shipping yet, but it seems to me that those options would be the most appealing part to this, especially if they work out of the box.

Re:What's wrong with a keyboard?

[rseuhs]

Microsoft tells it's revolutionary to make an oversized, noisy and heavy PDA. Isn't that enough as a reason for you?

Seriously, I have really, honestly thought of situations in which a tablet-PC might be useful. In all cases, a currently existing, cheaper, more reliable and readily available PDA would have been better though.

The only thing I would see as a possible use is for graphic artists which might need a large touchscreen. Yeah, that's possibly nicer than with a graphics tablet (although I'm no graphics artist). But other than that, I don't see any real use.

And that's the reason why all tablet-PC attempts have failed so far.

Re:What's wrong with a keyboard?

[loply]

There is a simple difference between a PDA and a laptop/tablet PC.
Could you fit a website designed for 800x600 on your 240x160 PDA? Didnt think so. Maybe you can fit the logo though.

Re:What's wrong with a keyboard?

[BigJimSlade]

I don't know why people think a keyboard is such a bad thing. I can type much better than I can write, and I expect that goes for most PC users under the age of 50.

That's quite an assumption you're making there. I know quite a few people that can take notes better than they can type on a keyboard, especially a subnote keyboard with extra small keys.

While I will concede that they are not really revolutionary or anything, I think it's a nice concept. I especially like the "slate" PC, although I haven't seen any specs on those yet. All these PCs should have a hardware button on the screen that allows an instant switch between landscape and portrait layouts. Sounds like a more full-featured eBook-reading platform.

Will I buy one? Certainly not at the ~$4500 price point I've seen in some articles on the Acer. They'll need to get the price down before I consider one. Anyway, I'm waiting for the iSlate/iTablet/iWhatever from Apple that will do the same thing. (pleasePleasePlease!)

Re:What's wrong with a keyboard?

[tswinzig]

I don't know why people think a keyboard is such a bad thing.

It's an extra piece of equipment to carry around, you have to sit down to use it adequately, and it requires two hands to operate at a reasonable speed (no chord keyboard rebuttals, please).

However, all that being said, there is nothing stopping keyboards from being integrated with tablet pc's that Microsoft is showing off. Some do have that as an option.

I can type much better than I can write

No one is saying you'd have to write EVERYTHING on a tablet PC! Read the articles about them. Go see a demo. That's not the point. The point is you CAN walk around with it like a notebook and make notes, do cool things standing up and moving around with a PC easily, then set it down on your desk and sync up with keyboard, mouse, etc.

Re:What's wrong with a keyboard?

[rseuhs]

You demonstrated a use of what a laptop can do better than a PDA.

Now demonstrate a use of what a tablet-PC can do better than a PC/PDA combination.

Everybody already has a PDA and the 100 grams or so don't really encumber you or do they?

Re:What's wrong with a keyboard?

[dvdeug]

I can type much better than I can write,

If I were taking an English class, I might agree. But when I'm in math class, I'm much happier with a pencil then a keyboard. Until full IPA keyboards come out, I think most linguists are in the same boat.

Re:What's wrong with a keyboard?

[Goldsmith]

Tablet PCs aren't really optimized for the "geek" market. Where they are really usefull is for the "real world".

For example: There are not very many general contractors (construction workers) out there using laptops. If they need to get an idea across of what they need, they probably need to draw a picture, and they're not going to take the time to open up *Cad and diagram the thing out.

Now... this isn't a new idea. Next time you get a delivery from UPS, look at the thing the delivery guy is carrying, that's basically a tablet PC.

The problem with the Tablet PC market right now is that only big companies really use them. It's not been out there enough for your average person to know where to get one, or even that they could. The reason MS doing this is great is that it opens up another large group of people to the digital age.

Re:What's wrong with a keyboard?

[tbradshaw]

I can tell you exactly what the limitation of a keyboard is... you can't draw with it. At least not quickly. I noticed this shortcoming of my laptop just this Friday while I was in a review session for a biology class. As per usual, I had my laptop out and I was diligently... well... I was at least taking *some* notes during the session for later perusal. Then, while going into genetics, the instructor showed a method of completing the genetics problems that actually involved drawing the allels and chromatids and combining that simple and effective artwork with the typical table used to find genotype/phenotype probabilities. It was so simple, so elegent, and I couldn't find a damn way to get that quickly (I'm in a lecture after all) down into my text file or word processing document. All I could think of was. Damn, I wish I could just pull out a stylus and draw this on my screen. I ended up whipping out my mad ascii art skills from days of BBS yore. But I would have much rather had a stylus.

Re:What's wrong with a keyboard?

[PythonOrRuby]

I'm of the opinion that Apple either won't do a tablet, or at least such a product wouldn't last long. Why?

In order to get people to enjoy using a computer it either has to be reasonably adaptable to their needs, or very tightly targeted.

The iPod is a perfect demonstration of the latter. It's a killer MP3 player. It has a few extras, but those are just icing on the cake, rather than something people expect of it. Thus every new feature is a treat, rather than an obligation. The iPod is also quite successful.

The problem with a tablet is that it has a relatively big color screen and versatile input. I expect to be able to do pretty much anything I can do on my iMac on an iTablet. I expect a tablet to be fully functional without depending on a desktop for anything(and for that matter, I don't want a concept where removing the tablet from the equation cripples my desktop).

But this means that a tablet has to have pretty much everything a compact, yet fully-featured(like the iBook, rather than one that requires a "docking station") laptop. Double hinged screen or not, the "tablet" then becomes cumbersome. My Mead 70 page notebook doesn't weigh nearly as much as even the lightest laptop.

The tablet concept is something that wants to be too many things at one time. It either has to wait for technology to become light and thin enough to make truly lightweight, non-crippled laptops, or it has to be more specifically targeted as a middle ground between the laptop and PDA. Right now it's just too close to being a laptop with a fancy screen to distinguish itself from that already-saturated market.

Re:What's wrong with a keyboard?

[rseuhs]

covered with notes, annotations, scribbled erasures, coffee-stains and donut-skid-marks

You REALLY think that a tablet-PC can handle that better?

Re:What's wrong with a keyboard?

[tswinzig]

Does the tablet come with suction cups on the bottom or maybe a table locking device. I get it, you are going to hold it between your legs.

Huh? You will hold it like a book with one hand, and write on it with the other.

Re:What's wrong with a keyboard?

[PythonOrRuby]

I agree with pretty much everything you've said, though I think some kind of heap removable media(CD/DVD) is probably a good idea.

The main problems I see are:

1. Autonomy. The tablet has to be useful on its own for extended periods of time.

2. Software. If this isn't running a full-fledged desktop OS, and assuming a beefed up PalmOS type system won't work, we'd essentially be creating a new platform.

I'm thinking the optimal combination of hardware is:

8-10" LCD
1.8" hard drive
System RAM
RAM disk, to avoid excessive hard drive spinning.
USB/Firewire/Ethernet
Some kind of ARM or PPC processor.

An optical drive probably wouldn't fit. This would allow the unit to be thinner, though. I'd put most of the guts below the LCD(as seen when the display is in "portrait" mode). It's not easy to write on the very last line of a notebook, so this would probably be a good step for ergonomics. A thick border to hang onto would also allow for spreading the internals out and keeping them out from under the heat-sensitive LCD.

Re:What's wrong with a keyboard?

[maitas]

Simply put, the more versatile Input device is the pen. With a Pen you can do everything you do with a keyboard, but no the other way around. You just can't draw maps with a keyboard, etc.

Chinese Characters

[Anonymous Coward]

the article states: "Handwriting recognition in the Tablet PC will be a boon for Asian consumers. Chinese and Japanese are pictorial languages with thousands of characters - it is a Herculean task to input these characters into an electronic document."

A herculean task to input these characters into an electronic document? Hardly. In fact I think it's quite the contrary. I've had experience with many Japanese who actually find it easier to type out their language phonetically and have the computer list potential chinese character matches than writing by hand. This saves them from having to recall stroke orders for obscure characters, and is actually faster. Typing two 10 stroke characters phonetically may take four or six key strokes, which is much quicker than 20 hand written strokes.

But then the article then goes on to point out that they have algorithms for two to four stroke characters. This makes me think they are only looking to allow input via Hiragana or Katakana - the phonetic based Japanese character sets. Maybe they understand that the task of recognizing characters with upwards of 15 strokes is overkill and maybe simply beyond reach right now.

Re:Chinese Characters

[KJKHyperion]

the article states: "Handwriting recognition in the Tablet PC will be a boon for Asian consumers. Chinese and Japanese are pictorial languages with thousands of characters - it is a Herculean task to input these characters into an electronic document."

Not only this is perfectly feasible, but Microsoft already has such a technology. To see it in action, install the support for Japanese on Windows (any version above NT 4 and 98 should do), and activate the Japanese input method in an Unicode-aware application (for example Opera, or NT Notepad). Open the IME pad (left-click on the red pen icon in the system tray, select the menu item), activate the hand-writing mode (click on the menu that displays the current input mode, "Soft Keyboard" by default, to get the list of modes), and experiment

Keyboard input is also possible: write the translitteration of the word, and a drop-down menu will present all the ideograms that match, and remember your choice for the future

Re:Chinese Characters

[glenstar]

And if everyone in china is just gonna start entering pinyin to make characters you might as well pull a vietnam and just all out romanize your language...

I disagree. On my old Japanese Sony Vaio I have the entire Hiragana "alphabet". So, using a copy of Japanese Windows, I can "spell out" Kanji using Hiragana. To me, perfectly natural. I can get the Kanji for Daibutsu by typing the "da" "i" "bu" "tsu" keys on the keyboard. Simple.

I smell a rat.

[surfacearea]

I was in a room with probably 150 hardcore linux users, and it seemed to me that the demonstration just floored them (the entire lecture hall CHEERED a Microsoft product). I believe that Microsoft's own online hype literature is insufficient in describing just how powerful their Tablet concept is. ...

Oh, and the input stylus is electromagnetic, not pressure-sensing, ANY document (not just MS) can be annotated, and the journal software is AMAZING in its power and flexibility.

You can't call Microsoft's stuff hype, and then make a post like this. This is hype. I don't think I need to say anything more.

Re:I smell a rat.

[tswinzig]

You can't call Microsoft's stuff hype, and then make a post like this. This is hype.

Actually, if you read his post, he called Microsoft's hype inadequate, so I don't really think he was trying to use hype in a negative way.

I don't think I need to say anything more.

Correct!

Unless of course you wanted to make a point.

WTF?

[Quixote]

This writeup sounds familiar.

I've yet to see a house full of Linux "hardcore" geeks even warm up to a Microshaft presentation. And I've lived in the "geek world" for many many years.

Just so you know: I have seen the Tablet PC; and most of the people (techies) who were with me were thoroughly unimpressed. I don't know what "Linux crowd" you hang out with, but check their foreheads for butterflies....

Re:damn, looks hot!

[cscx]

Definitely, I'd hit it. And the Acer page doesn't have a disclaimer that says "Hot girl in chair does not come with Tablet PC," so hey, y'know, you might be lucky.

I don't get it

[Sleestack]

Exactly how are these features beneficial?

I learned typing so that I didn't need to use such a painfully slow method as handwriting anymore. Why is everyone so delighted that your WPM is going down?

As far as speaking, I don't know about the rest of you, but voice processing is useless for me practically everywhere I use a computer: On the train, in meetings, and at my desk. Everytime I've heard someone use a Dragon speech product I almost immediately hear someone else asking them to turn it off because it's annoying.

Microsoft's mission

[rseuhs]

... seems to be to desperately try to put a x86 in place of every electronic device.

Just look at XBox: Big, loud, fragile, power-consuming, sold at 150$ loss - and still behind Gamecube and Playstation.

Now the same with Tablet-PC: Isn't it just an oversized PDA? The way I see it, it combines the disadvantages from PDA and Laptop: It's too heavy and big to casually carry it around in a pocket, battery lifetime is measured in hours like with a Laptop. - But it lacks a keyboard, many interfaces and connectors.

Why should anybody choose it over a Laptop? or a PDA?

Re:Microsoft's mission

[tshak]

Just look at XBox: Big, loud, fragile, power-consuming, sold at 150$ loss - and still behind Gamecube and Playstation.

Please, if you must diss MS, diss them on fact, not blind zeal.

XBox: Big. Sure, I'll give you that. It's also the most powerful console.

Loud: Not any louder then my PS2. The fricken DVD players are loud on these things - like a mini F16! Contrary to ignorant beliefs, the HD is actually pretty quiet.

Fragile: I take my XBox everywhere in a backpack. On the bus, to XBox parties, and in my car (in which I drive aggressively!). Still works great.

Power-Consuming: Ya, MS hasn't figured out how to make an electronic device that doesn't consume electricity. Seriously, get the HD add-on for the PS2 and your power consumption is not a whole lot less then the XBox. Of course, a GF4 requires more power then a GF2, or a 2Ghz p4 takes more power then a 1.4Ghz P4, so it makes perfect sense that again, the most powerful console requires the most power. (DUH?)

$150 loss: This is pure speculation. I know many people inside MS who laugh at this number. What's normally not considered is how fast x86 parts drop. Even if the $150 number was true last year, it sure isn't true today. Until I see real data from MS or Flextronics (the manufacturer), it's just as easy to believe that they lose only $15.

Still behind GC and PS2: Well, the PS2 was out way before the XBox, and had the momentum from the incredible success from the PS. The GameCube is, well, Nintendo. A brand that we all remember as a kid. The GC is also $50 cheaper (thanks to really crappy controllers, and a good hardware design), and has incredible titles that build off exclusive Nintendo brands like Mario and Zelda. Microsoft is also the first American company to seriously compete in the console industry. They've got an uphill battle. I say, selling half of what Nintendo sells is a HUGE success for their position.

Re:Microsoft's mission

[rseuhs]

Isn't it funny that XBox fanboys are following the incredible double-standard in noticeing that PS2 had a 2-year lead when it comes to game library, but completely ignoring the 2-year advantage the XBox has when it comes to technology?

Of course XBox is more powerful than PS2. But it's still rather dissapointing for 2 years.

Actually, a game system should be so much better that it should easily outsell a 2 year old system despite smaller initial game library.

That's how it was all the time: Every new console started with a smaller library and outsold the older consoles.

Every console except XBox of course.

And if losing 1 billion/year is a huge success and only sell half of their own estimates, I want to see a normal success - I'm not even talking about a failure...

Re:Microsoft's mission

[fferreres]

Size of screen. I WOULD like to read in the train with these things, download books, browse the newspapers, etc. There's always a way to add a small keyboard when you have the $.

Also, for watching movies in a train, bus, whatever, using it as a portable DVD player, as a portable Audio Center.

It's just a spreamlined PC slim and without big moving parts or lots of cables. Chances are this tables will be widely used when Wireless becomes widespread. Both concepts reinforce themselves.

Would be nice if it had a slot to Dock your (small) PDA and access it in a remote way (ie: as a window in your tablet, and drives mounted as /pda). Very very handy!!

Most people will use to take porn everywhere (bath, office, etc :), so may be usefull for them also :) :)

Re:Microsoft's mission

[tshak]

XBox: Huge.

Looking at my PS2 (WITH multitap and HD upgrade) side-by-side with my XBox there's not THAT big of a difference. Laptops are small, and also cost a lot more to build.

Loud? Well, I have my evidence, you have your opinion.

Fragile: Plastic is mutable. Well, then all consoles are fragile and it's a moot point.

Power-Consuming: Again, I cite laptops. How come a laptop can have a GF4 and 60GB and run off a battery fine. Let's see, my Inspiron 8200 does not run off a battery "fine" (not even 2hrs on 1 batt if playing games). First, the Gf4 is an MX which is actually LESS powerful then the XBox's GPU. Second, as I already mentioned Laptops are much more expensive to build because of their small size. Laptops are a very poor comparison.

$150 loss: the XBox was INITIALLY made from the cheapest parts to keep costs down.
Uhm, cost of XBox production has gone down since day 1, as with all other consoles. This is simple economics, and it applies much more in the x86 market because of x86's ubiquity.

Personally, I hold the GC is very high respect. So do I. I didn't at first because of A) it's crappy controller (quality of parts is really poor, and it looks like a toy), and B) it's launch titles. Now that the GC has matured, I'll definitely pick one up once 3rd parties come up with higher quality controllers with analog sticks that I'm not afraid to break off.

Re:Microsoft's mission

[tshak]

XBox fanboy? More like Fact Fanboy. PS2 had a 12-14month lead, not a 2 year lead. If you look at some of the games on the XBox and compare them to the PS2 (since I have both I can do that very well), there is a HUGE difference, unless of course you're talking about "cross-platform ports" which then yields a minor difference. Screenshots don't do any console justice. Also, don't forget the 256channel sound with 5.1 dolby digital (it really is quite amazing) - it's not just about the graphics.

And, please go take an economics course. Investing into 1 billion into the platform (with approx 1billion left for XBox2) is NOT a 1billion/year loss.

Handwriting on a Screen

[dlevitan]

I've used a palm for a long time, but I've realized one thing - writing on a piece of plastic is nothing compared to writing on a good sheet of paper. For example, my signature is consistent on paper. With the electronic signature things more stores are getting, I have a problem with my signature because the tablet doesn't feel the same way as paper. It seems like too little friction or something, but it doesn't doesn't feel right. So until I can write on real electronic paper that feels like paper, I don't think I want to spend another $500 on a tablet pc that I'll end up being annoyed with.

Re:Handwriting on a Screen

[BigJimSlade]

Note: all the devices you have just described use some sort of presure-sensitive input mechanism. It remains to be seen if the electro-magnetic mechanism used on these Tablet PCs will be any better, but it will be different.

Re:Handwriting on a Screen

[tswinzig]

I've used a palm for a long time, but I've realized one thing - writing on a piece of plastic is nothing compared to writing on a good sheet of paper. For example, my signature is consistent on paper. With the electronic signature things more stores are getting, I have a problem with my signature because the tablet doesn't feel the same way as paper. It seems like too little friction or something, but it doesn't doesn't feel right.

I think probably the problem in the past with writing on screens has been inaccurate pen detection coupled with low resolution ("pixely" outut). If these two things are gone, I don't see any reason why it can't be like writing on paper with a high quality (low friction) pen.

Re:Handwriting on a Screen

[wfrp01]

It remains to be seen if the electro-magnetic mechanism used on these Tablet PCs will be any better

You know, MS has always made a pretty good mouse. Perhaps that's their future: input devices. Hey, a guy can dream, no?

Just to ramble... What if this electromagnetic input really is good gonzo? And for the sake of argument, let's say MS holds a patent on the technology. If they manufacture the hardware in a closed shop and don't publish the specs, then they can compell anyone who wants to use their hardware to use their OS. Maybe MS wants to be more like Apple: use proprietary hardware to move your software.

Text recognition

[hopbine]

If the handwriting recognition software is as good as they say it is, give one to every doctor - that way we will all understand the damn prescriptions.

write where i want it?

[digitalsushi]

Swap the stock photo girl out with Heidi Wall chicken-scratching GIMP under X windows, and I'll buy one. Tell me I can bash alias a frowny face to /dev/null and I'll buy two. Tell me someone's working on a GUI iptables interface where I can flick digital bugs with my index finger, and I'll swap out my router. And if I can get it with an at&t natural voice Majel Barrett module, I'll wet my pants and run around in little circles. Now to resurrect a cliche- will it run linux? oops, I mean, how long til it runs linux?

Re:waiting with bated breath

[Pengo]

Must say, with the SQL Server 7.0 release... about the same thing happened. I still believe that SQL Server is ms's finest product, but I can't run it on my Favorite OS... and up until the days of FreeTDS interfaces, nothing could talk to it.. including java. (unless you used that rediculous ODBC bridge)...

Anyway, after only one installation, never really had the chance to play with it since.. Great DB, too bad it's caged to one OS.. I would choose it ANY day over oracle if it ran on linux.

Don't be too sure

[dsfox]

Microsoft Research went on an incredible hiring spree in the mid 90s, Picking up a majority of the top researchers in some fields. I'm surprised more killer products haven't come out of there since, apart from the difficulty of bringing products from reasearch to production I always observered at Bell Labs.

Re:Don't be too sure

[jejones]

Depends on MS's purpose in hiring them. It may be that as long as MS can keep the best talent from working for somebody else, it doesn't matter whether they actually produce anything at all.

I've been to that presentation

[NotoriousQ]

and saw the tablet pc. Not all of those 150 people were rabid linux users. In fact I am quite certain there were not even 50. But you obviously misundertood what impressed the people. Noone cared that you could copy and paste ink. That is trivial. Annotations are passed through the bitmaps, as the guy specifically mentioned. Yawn. What impressed me and a ton of other people in the room was the kick ass handwriting recognition. I have not seen one that worked that well yet. For those of you who have not seen it, the recognizer is not line based, so it can form chunks of recognizable text at any position and angle. Nothing too mind boggling, but definitely a technical feat.

Re:I've been to that presentation

[zenyu]

What impressed me and a ton of other people in the room was the kick ass handwriting recognition.

Try writing fuck into it, won't work. It's not in their dictionary, you have to write one letter at a time, takes 3x as long as grafitti. I saw a PhD thesis with this level of handwriting regognition a couple years ago. It is impressive that it made it to market so quickly, but technically not very impressive.

I do want one of those tablets though. It's got one of those Wacom tablets under the LCD which makes it like a real dynabook. The first prototypes I saw were completely unusable because the screen was so thick that you got lots of parallax. But the Acer doesn't have a glass covering the screen so it's completely usable. The glass used to be there to protect the LCD, so no heavy handed drawing on the Acer. Unfortunately the Acer is very fragile in many other ways too, but I think if Apple ever makes one of these it will be great.

You don't use it as a tablet when browsing the web or writing anything significant. But if you want to draw something it is much nicer than a wacom tablet, you get feedback right under the pen. And since the screen is soft you get a better feel.* Unlike a PDA you have everything a Wacom tablet has, pressure sensitivity, pen angle, and accuracy. The handwriting recognition is fine for writing the small anotations it's intended for, just insert your words into the dictionary first.

*BTW if you've tried a Wacom tablet but didn't like it, fastening a piece of paper on top of the drawing surface gives it a much better feel. You get some of that friction you get using a pencil on paper.

Re:I've been to that presentation

[epgandalf]

I was there too, assuming that we're all talking about the presentation at CMU yesterday.
The handwriting recognition was really impressive. He had bad handwriting and it still recognized it. There was some handwriting that I even had trouble reading that was converted to text correctly. The tablet recognized handwriting from all angles, even upside down!
As other people have mentioned, it is using a dictionary to figure out what you probably wrote. The only time that it messed up it read "This is a test" as "This is arrest." He then clicked on arrest and pulled up the alternatives. The closest thing there was atest, which he selected and then entered a space.

Re:unbelievable

[The J Kid]

In other news:

Microsoft (MSIE) has just released a beta version of there upcoming Human Resource Management tool, called MS Brainwash 2003. It's said to give offices serious productivity spurs and makes office meetings a breeze. The product is expeced to release around sping 2003.

I think maybe you do need to say something more

[dsfox]

Like, what your definition of hype is, and why each qualifies.

Re:But is it open?

[James Skarzinskas]

I'm not trolling when I say "Why would they, and why should they?". It's their product, and they are free to disclose as much or as little of the technical information as they wish.

Re:So what?

[WetCat]

I want it. I just want something that
1) doesn't fold like laptop
2) has palm graffiti AND handwrite recognition
3) be 2 times larger than a palm pilot
4) has at least an equivalent of 200Mhz Pentium,
energy-independent storage and >=32 Mb memory
hmm... may be Simputer?!
and surely I want Linux on that thingie (or at least to have an ability to put Linux on it).

fun for artists

[kisrael]

Tablet technology seems like it would be great for doodlers and maybe other artists, depending on the sensitivity of the input device. It'll be great when my big ol' LCD monitor can be taken off of its stand and used on my lap for a bit of drawing.

On the other hand, right now, when I see the pictures all I can think is that it looks like a comically over-seized PDA.

guerilla marketing

[jonbrewer]

Again I believe Slashdot has fallen victim to guerilla marketing. Were the poster in fact a real person, they would have linked to their university.

The post might as well have been straight from a textbook. No facts, just unsubstantiated hype.

The question is: who is the poster working for? Acer? Microsoft?

(And the next question is, why is Taco falling for this shit?)

Re:guerilla marketing

[Damion]

Actually, WallsRSolid is a friend of mine. The university in question is Carnegie Mellon. Microsoft really was here last week, and the reaction to them really was, in all truth an honesty, a positive one.
I've been absolutely astounded on the number of people in this discussion who have completely blown off the topic. Microsoft does produce some quality products, and they are very attractive as employers (the purpose of the visit was one of recruitment), despite all of the Evil Empire BS that flies around.

Tried one yesterday

[joebp]

My dad got one of the Acer's a few days ago in order to test his company's software on it. I had a go in the local cybercafe down the road.

Pro's:

Nice feeling pens (there are two)

The swivel idea is nice, abeit a little fiddly.

It looks cool!

It's pretty small and light

Windows Journal is very nice

Con's:

Windows XP is as slow as a dog! I don't know what spec the machine is, but there is very noticable latency between clicking and menu's appearing for example. This might have something to do with it having an absolute shitpile graphics card.

There is no positive feedback that you have clicked. A tiny click sound would improve usability 110%. This is where the whole thing really fails. I found myself reverting to the touchpad in a few minutes because it was just so frustrating to try and double-click.

The onscreen keyboard is good, but the handwriting recognition is both crap and slow (about 1.5 seconds delay after writing 'jpixton').

The screen has a protector on it which makes it rather reflective.

Fiddly as fuck for clicking anything small. They really need to realise you can't just use a pen with windows which was designed to be used with a mouse. They need to alter the user interface to be more usable with a pen!!

Re:Tried one yesterday

[ewhac]

I realize it's disingenuous of me to select but a single remark as a basis for a lengthy Windows bash, but:

Windows XP is as slow as a dog! I don't know what spec the machine is, but there is very noticable latency between clicking and menu's appearing for example. This might have something to do with it having an absolute shitpile graphics card.

No, it has something to do with having an absolute shitpile OS.

Extremely responsive user interfaces were developed over fifteen years ago on machines that had a 7 or 8 MHz MC68000 as their CPU. Maybe they had blitting hardware, maybe not. The definitely didn't have floating-point math HW. I'm referring of course to the Amiga and the Mac. (Atari ST owners can chime in on their own.)

Here we are fifteen years later, and what have we got? A slow, poorly responsive user interface. Well, the pixels have gotten deeper, from two to 32 bits in some cases. So the machine needs to be 16 times faster to compensate, right? 16 * 7 MHz == 112MHz. National Semiconductor Geodes -- widely regarded as the cheapest pieces of crud currently available -- start at around 180MHz. Moreover, all machines these days have some kind of blitter, with anything from a 32- to a 256-bit bus. So the machine should be every bit as fast, if not faster, right?

Since it's slower, this illustrates that the software is, as you say, an absolute shitpile. And don't try to hand me any rubbish about, "Oh, the OS has to do so much more than Amiga or MacOS did back then." There's only so much that could possibly need to happen between a mouse click and deploying a menu and, unless you're a complete muppet of a software programmer, there's no way those operations are going to perceptibly eat up a 180MHz CPU.

Schwab

Re:Tried one yesterday

[smallstepforman]

I love reading posts from former BeOS engineers on Slashdot. It puts things into perspective, especially considering BeInc's foray into Tablet PC's.

Here's why

[RainbowSix]

Here is what floored everybody:

You can open up a lecture slide on say, power point during a class, write notes on it in a spiraling circular fashion, then later search through your spiral scribble AS IF IT WERE TEXT. You write "foo," search for "foo" and "foo" in your hand writing will be highlighted.

They did it during the presentation and it appeared to work very well.

When I take notes in class I use paper and a pen because I like the variety in handwriting to help me remember things. If it were searchable... I'd buy on of these and I've used Linux exclusively for 2 years.

What will they think of next

[niall2]

First Microsoft reinvented computing by giving us Windows 95 and now the tablet PC a little over eight years later in 2003. Brilliance.

First Apple reinvented computing by giving us the Macintosh in 1984 and now the Newton a little over eight years yater in 1993. Brilliance.

I guess the real question is when did PARC come up with all of this. 1978?

Re:What will they think of next

[MouseR]

Actually, the Newton was the fruition of some concepts dreamt of years before which were bound together into a concept design called the Knowledge Navigator.

This Knowledge Navigator also is the origin of Bill Atkinson's HyperCard and HyperScript language, the later being the ancestor of what became the AppleScript language.

Re:What will they think of next

[tswinzig]

Compare Newton to a Palm... sure.

Compare Newton to a Tablet PC... whatever!

(Have you actually tried one? I have!)

Anyone remember 'Pen' computing

[Gerry Gleason]

It was all the rage in the early 90s, with every PC company trying to jump on the bandwagon plus a couple of companies dedicated to it as a single concept. MS jumped in with their product which quickly squashed anyone doing actual innovative work, and people quickly realized that all the talk about handwriting recognition was mostly hype. Clearly there is demand for products like this if they can get it right, and it makes great marketting hype even if they don't.

Clearly there is demand for this type of thing if it is well done and well integrated, but there is little to be learned from a rigged demo. The technology background piece has some interesting tidbits, but it doesn't seem like any of the interesting research is coming from MS in the first place.

If we are lucky, some interesting hardware will be built with higher quality input devices, and maybe that will spark some good research. Research is better done in open source, so hopefully the hardware drivers will be available to make this work in Linux.

This is super-exciting!

[standards]

This is super exciting! Just a few questions!

Microsoft just finished a week-long series of lectures and demos at my university

What university?

the product that really stole the show was the Tablet PC. I was in a room with probably 150 hardcore linux users, and it seemed to me that the demonstration just floored them (the entire lecture hall CHEERED a Microsoft product).

What did they cheer for, other than nebulous "amazement?"

I believe that Microsoft's own online hype literature is insufficient in describing just how powerful their Tablet concept is.

What hype are you refering to, and exactly how is their "hype literature" insufficient?

Oh, and the input stylus is electromagnetic, not pressure-sensing

How is that better? Is an electromagnetic stylus a requirement of the Microsoft technology?

ANY document (not just MS) can be annotated

Can I annotate OpenOffice documents?

the journal software is AMAZING in its power and flexibility.

What exactly does it do that's powerful and flexible?

More details please! I don't feel the amazement yet - perhaps you could tell us all why we should be amazed! Then we'll love you!

Re:This is super-exciting!

[generic-man]

Your anti-Microsoft advocacy is priceless. By countering hype with FUD, you will go far on this Internet-site.

What university?

Carnegie Mellon University.

What did they cheer for, other than nebulous "amazement?"

They cheered for the fact that their product blends handwriting recognition with Windows applications that are already in widespread use. Advantages over Palm OS: Larger, color screen; easier ability to add wireless. Advantages over Newton: Tablet PC has a large company actively backing it; larger, color screen; compatible with Office and other widely-used applications. Advantages over Linux: the hwr-devel kernel module has been stuck at version 0.2.5a since 1997, and doesn't support any hardware made in the time since then.

What hype are you refering to, and exactly how is their "hype literature" insufficient?

Their hype literature, like many such pages, is pretty shallow.

How is that better? Is an electromagnetic stylus a requirement of the Microsoft technology?

Yes.

Can I annotate OpenOffice documents?

Yes, with the openoffice-hwr-devel module, currently at version 0.0.1a on SourceForge. If you'd like to see this technology implemented, write it yourself. That's the power of open source.

What exactly does it do that's powerful and flexible?

It lets you use handwriting recognition.

Re:This is super-exciting!

[standards]

OK, now I understand that "hard-core" Linux users cheered...

"for the fact that their [Mircosoft's] product blends handwriting recognition with Windows applications"

Hmmm, I can see people being impressed by handwriting recognition, so I assume that it's many many steps up above the stuff in the old Newton. Did you try it out? How did it do with your handwriting?

Other than using handwriting as an input device, was there anything else that led to cheers?

It was mentioned that any app can take advantage of this. Does that mean I can just plunk in my old Word '97 and have it use all these annotation and handwriting features? Or does my app have to be modified to take advantage of these features?

I kind of assumed that any future tablet product would be capable of handwriting recognition... hopefully better recognition than that of PDAs of today and yesteryear. And I kind of also assumed that it'd be fairly easy to annotate documents with marks, like the Newton did. And being a Microsoft product, I assumed that it'd run MS-Office.

Can someone who was there explain this a little better? Did anyone get their hands on the hardware and take it for a spin?

By the way, what was the name of the lecture series? Is there a web site? Since this was sponsored by CM, there must be... feel free to email it to me or post it here.

Re:This is super-exciting!

[generic-man]

Regrettably, I did not get to try it out with my own (terrible) handwriting. I'll have to wait until it's on sale at CompUSA so that I can play with it firsthand. It can do things that the Newton couldn't, such as recognizing handwriting written on slopes or curves. Also, it can remember text associated with handwriting while still displaying the handwriting. (You search for "foo," it highlights your handwritten "foo.") I'm not sure about the Newton's ability to do this.

No idea about whether it works with anything but the latest and greatest Office apps. Someone else mentioned OpenOffice, for which support is unlikely; Microsoft has nearly EOLed Office 97, so that's unlikely as well.

The lecture series was called "Microsoft Days @ CMU," and was sponsored by Microsoft with the support of the School of Computer Science. Microsoft paid the bills; SCS provided the rooms. While it was promoted heavily through direct e-mail campaigns and on-campus flyers, the web presence for it is limited to a calendar entry on the SCS web site and a plug on Microsoft's College site. You may also want to contact Assistant Dean for Industrial Relations Catherine Copetas for any direct inquiries.

Hope this helps.

Re:waiting with bated breath

[AKnightCowboy]

My uptight boss was all for it once she saw what it was about. I've held off a laptop purchase for almost a year now waiting for this.

This, boys and girls, is exactly the reason Microsoft is so successful. More power to them. When was the last time you heard the average person waiting with baited breath for Red Hat 8.0 to come out? "Look! It now supports a new video card that shipped in my machine 12 months ago! Woohoo!" :-)

Not a flame, just an observation. Microsoft really knows how to stir up the troops and get them excited over nothing but cybercrack. Open your wallets folks and enjoy the ride, I sure do.

I never trust MS presentations...

[SwedishChef]

The first one I attended was for an introduction of Frontpage along with NT4. Very posh circumstances in Bellevue with catered food (this was back in the "good ol' days). The demonstrations were slick beyond belief, done by smart, attractive people who did amazing things simply and easily. They gave us CDs with NT server, SQL server, Frontpage and NT workstation (all time-limited) and I was impressed enough to try them all.

Oddly enough, nothing worked as well for me as it did for those smart, attractive demonstrators. Perhaps I wasn't smart (or attractive) enough but it seens more likely to me that the demonstrations were carefully staged to only show the best side of the product and hide any flaws.

Of course, most presentations are like this... but this one sticks in my mind as a stark example. I've warned all our people to view all such "dog and pony shows" with a good deal of skepticism... but this goes double for those done by MS, in my opinion. What you see may not be what you get.

Re:I never trust MS presentations...

[glenstar]

As with most large presentations, MS presentations are almost always rigged. I spent a brief period at Microsoft Consulting Services and we created several "demos" that were rather elaborate in the way they made it *look* like something was really happening. However, you can't blame MS for that... any smart person would try to limit the unknown factors in a presentation to thousands of people. That's just smart business. A bit misleading, perhaps... but smart business.

Re:I never trust MS presentations...

[vsprintf]

That's just smart business. A bit misleading, perhaps... but smart business.

Sorry, I'm not gonna buy that. I don't think "misleading" prospective customers or stockholders or auditors or anyone else is "smart business". I think it's fraud, and the perpetrators should be sent away for awhile to reflect on the concept.

Re:I never trust MS presentations...

[glenstar]

What I was speaking of was setting up presentations/demonstrations in such a way that they *cannot fail*, which, in my opinion is much different than fraudulent behavior. Realize that the majority of these demonstrations happen months before an actual product is *released*. There are bound to be problems with the product at that stage, but you must show the audience what the product *will* do. So long as the presenting company follows through with what they have shown in the presentation, I see no problem.

Now, misleading on financial matters is an entirely different story.

Re:I never trust MS presentations...

[vsprintf]

So demonstrating vaporware as a working product to prospective customers who will write huge checks for it gives you no heartburn, and you see no problem with that?

Sorry, I went to an older school where ethics were important. Times change, I guess.

Re:I never trust MS presentations...

[glenstar]

Come on! I didn't say vaporware... I said creating a demonstration that will not crash... and I also said that was acceptable only so long as the demonstrator followed through on their promises.

Re:I never trust MS presentations...

[vsprintf]

Come on! I didn't say vaporware... I said creating a demonstration that will not crash... and I also said that was acceptable only so long as the demonstrator followed through on their promises.

From previous posts, at the time you do this demo, there is no integrated product that actually works (without crashing). Therefore, I have to see your demo as one of a nonexisting product (commonly called vaporware). And unless you happen to be Bill Gates, how can you guarantee the company will follow through on the promises implicit in this (faked) demo?

Tablet PC

[yar]

Microsoft is hyping the tablet PC because it uses their Operating System (Windows XP Tablet). Several companies are coming through with the hardware, including Acer, Compaq, and Motion. My university has had demonstrations of all three, a couple of them MS sponsored.

In our demonstrations Microsoft never claimed credit for the tablet concept, and the demonstrators did acknowledge that the idea has been around for some time. They are selling the difference in that a) the new tablet PCs are now affordable and b) the OS can run anything Windows XP can run.

For approximately the price of a laptop, you get a somewhat more mobile but less powerful laptop. Acer's includes an integrated keyboard. They are nifty, but I wouldn't say that the Linux users in the audience stood up and cheered by any stretch of the imagination. Right off the bat they have their drawbacks. CD/DVD isn't integrated (which would be difficult at that size, although they have lots of ports to use), the voice recognition is still somewhat weak, and as I mentioned, they are somewhat less powerful than laptops at the same price. On the other hand, people can carry them around like they're a pad, people can annotate in any program, it makes using drawing programs a lot better, and it has the best handwriting recognition software I've ever encountered (that is what impressed me the most).

All in all, they are selling the tablet PC as "an idea that's time has come." I don't know if that's true; if my area decides to support them I will probably use one, but I wouldn't go out and purchase one myself at this point.

Sounds perfect for watching porn DVDs in bed!

[Subcarrier]

Seriously, the parent is not a troll. People have been trying to make a tablet PC for years and it simply doesn't sell. After all, it's just a laptop without a keyboard, which makes it unusable for any serious work and still too heavy to use as a home appliance.

Re:Sounds perfect for watching porn DVDs in bed!

[VertigoAce]

The pictures I saw made it look like it was a laptop that you could fold so that the keyboard wasn't showing (ie. you could use it as a laptop most of the time, but you could also use it in tablet form when convenient). The key is making the whole thing light enough that carrying around the keyboard when you're using it as a tablet isn't a pain.

its a x86 laptop = foobar

[johnjones]

oh for gods sake people

its just a x86 laptop with a touchscreen = open

the funkyness that they all rave about is the ability to doodle all over the screen and so the software

the real deal is if they put wince on a strongARM and use RDP + 802.11b to get to the x86 on your desk

that would be fun because of the battery life and the fact that ARM is well supported in linux 2.4/2.5

X11 term's on everyones laps
(now that would be cool)

regards

John Jones

Re:Killer App?

[rseuhs]

Just look at the slashdot article. "It's from Microsoft, it must be great!", "It's from Microsoft it's revolutionary!", "It's from Microsoft, whohooo".
Then add lots of pointy haired bosses with a similar attitude.

That said, I still don't think they will be successful long-term. Because it's Microsoft and it's "revolutionary", no matter how old the idea really is, so I see many morons buying it in the next months.

But! there is not much use for it. There are not really many situations in which a tablet PC is better than a PDA or a Laptop. That's why the great "revolutionary" tablet-PC has been converted into a tablet/laptop hybrid. Tablet-PCs have lots of problems. They are heavy, they are fragile, the touch-screen gets dirty fast, and the center of gravity is in the screen, not the lower unit which will make it fall over easily in laptop-mode. I'd guess that most buyers will realize that they keep their laptop-part attached all the time anyway and will buy a slimmer, lighter, faster and cheaper laptop - or a PDA - in the next upgrade cycle.

So I expect a very short tablet-PC craze which will die down soon.

Battery Life = 3.5 hours

[loply]

If you download the demo application, it states: "Power saving in the CPU architecture delivers an extended battery life of 3.5 hours".
3.5 hours battery life?!?
Does it mean 3.5 extra hours due to the CPU power saving, or am I right in thinking this thing has an overall battery life of 3.5 hours?

Re:Battery Life = 3.5 hours

[torgosan]

Overall of 3.5 - on paper.

Let's be practical and say it's ~2.5 or so [yes, pulled out of thin air but based on lots of experience with laptops/tablet PC's].

IMNSHO, not nearly enough battery life is what users in the real world will see. Status quo, I'm afraid.

What would be really funny...

[uradu]

...is you having to excuse yourself for a quick trip to the photocopier every ten words or so.

what are the alternatives for lecture notes?

[porky_pig_jr]

Here is my problem: my handwriting is awful, my typing skills are fairly decent. During the lecture I have to draw some charts or graphs -- sometime. I need something I can combine the typing with some minimal handwriting but fairly extensive drawing. Something not too big I can take with me in classroom. Seems like Palm/Pocket PC screen size is too small. Any recommendations?
TIA.

Linux fans cheer, of course.

[rapidweather]

IMHO, Linux users/fans will cheer for any os, hardware, etc. that is, in it's own right, a good thing. Regardless of who does it. Linux is just a "bathtub full of applications" isn't it? All kinds of stuff, from everywhere. When I am surfing the web with a linux/windows box, and I find a game, etc. that might be interesting to run on my Windows 98 partition, I just download it from my linux partition, and then reboot to Windows to go explore it, etc. Why should I keep the two os's separated on two different boxes? On the other hand, the typical Windows user has no linux partition on his machine, but I'll be willing to bet that most Linux users have Windows also, especially since HDD capacity now runs well over 30 GB in many machines. Now, the tablet pc can hold a linux installation, can't it? That's the real reason why "Linux fans cheer."

Re:Linux fans cheer, of course.

[Anonvmous Coward]

"That's the real reason why "Linux fans cheer."

I think the real reason that Linux fans are cheering is that MS did all the hard work. They had the machines designed and manufactured, they had a large team of engineers and QA make the things useful, and it's still a PC that does normal PC stuff. All the developers out there have to do is leech what MS has already done and throw it into a Linux distro.

Mod me a troll if you like, but I'm a little annoyed at all these pokes taken at MS, but at least they find interesting ways of making their products useful. (note: I did not use the word invent, so spare me the 'MS stole from Apple who really stole from Xerox' crap.) Linux is still playing catch up in many ways to Windows (i.e. the useful UI) but isn't doing a whole lot to depart from it, at least from the end-user perspective.

I fear that if MS dissolves like most of the /. Community wants, then Linux development will come to a virtual screeching halt. No innovation coming from that community.

However, I may be wrong about that. I invite polite rebuttals. My perception may be wrong, and I'm open to information that could change my mind. I'm honestly not trying to troll here, just sharing my view and am willing to discuss that.

Tablet PC in person

[Nexum]

I've had an oportunity to use Microsoft's Tablet PC in person - A week or two ago a MS trailer was on the grounds of my University (Plymouth UK) mainly to shout about .Net, but they had a couple of TablePC's in the trailer too, one was an Acer, and I think the other was a Sharp.

These are my personal impressions, your mileage may vary.

First of all the handwriting recognition is not amazing. It does a fair job if you print in capitals, but writing joined up as neatly as possible gave unusable results. The recognition system really should have been better for the simple fact that when using a TabletPC you are not going to be leaning the device on table, but standing holding it in one hand with the pen in your other. This contributes to wobble (try writing neatly on a paper notepad with a pen while standing - notice your handwriting isn't so great?). So for a device like this, this is an important point - it should have been better, and as it is, I guess it's only *just* about passable.

My other complaint about the handwriting is that the screens on both devices were very smooth, and this meant that there was very little tactile feedback when writing, which promotes large scribbly handwriting. Notice how when you use a normal pen and paper there is resistance as you write? This is not present and promotes bad handwriting.

But enough about the handwriting - I really don't see how this is a revolutionary product. It's a laptop with handwriting recognition (and some have no keyboards).

That is about it - and because of the form factor being so small on most of the available devices you lose out on a whole lot of functionality (DVD, good graphics HW, CD burning, Large HDD etc etc etc.)

Plus, on the two devices Microsoft was showing off (so presumably the best two available devices) the battery life was appalling - at around 1 - 2 hours. For a portable device like this to succeed, we need to see 'day's use' longevity, which will probably realistically mean 6 -8 hours. So what gives, there are fully fledged notebooks available with TWICE the battery life of this device, which is supposed to be more personal and available 24/7 than a notebook.

Plus (and it could be because I only had it for 20 mins) the way that Windows Tablet edition responds to the pen is very confusing, you write away and all of a sudden it thinks you are trying to press buttons, and all sorts of stuff gets clicked on, then it'll calm down for the last couple of words of your sentence and go back to recognising handwriting.

And what's more, the two MS employees openly stated their pessimism for the devices, and admitted they had no idea how to use the interface.

Plus - with the devices that are simply going to be like a notebook without the keyboard half (rather than the notebook like ones that have an actual keyboard that folds around to the back of the screen) how on earth is the screen protected? A pouch? A cover? If so - this seems more ungainly than a conventional ultralight notebook (Vaio, PowerBook G4 etc).

And the things are *heavy*.

Sorry, but I was very underwhelmed by the Tablet PC, and find it surprising to hear of this reaction (cheering, clapping) from *anybody* let alone people who you'd expect to understand more about the industry

There is nothing special about the Tablet PC, it's *just a small notebook with handwriting recognition* - and my final justification is that apparently the devices will cost *A LOT* - thousands of GBP. -Peter

Handwriting recognition - feh...

[samdu]

I had a Palm III for many years. I was able to pick up Grafitti in about an hour. Now I have a Zaurus. The handwriting recognition is amazing. I almost never use it. I usually use the keyboard. No matter how great handwriting recognition gets, it'll never be as fast a competent (not great, just okay) typist. It simply takes longer to write words and letters than to type them. I don't see the advantage of the tablet PC thing (except for vertical markets). As I see it, Microsoft is merely attempting to manufacture a market that doesn't exist. It's all hype, but Microsoft will get credit for it when everyone wants one (why? because it's "new" and "cool"). I say thee FEH!

Acer specs

[Superpaz]

Optional 802.11b wireless LAN

Optional? That seems a bit odd for a Tablet PC no?

More balanced TabletPC storeis from ZDNet

[BrerBear]

Are here and here. Note that the first has a second page.

All that is old will be new again

[Multics]

It would appear that someone at Microsoft learned how to read -- say for example: Computer Lib/Dream Machines [originally printed circa 1977 ] which describes Dynabook.

At least they're smart enough to implement it coherently unlike a dozen or so who've tried previously. It sounds like this product is about 70% of what a Dynabook is supposed to be.

-- Multics

Re:All that is old will be new again

[Anonvmous Coward]

"It would appear that someone at Microsoft learned how to read -- say for example: Computer Lib/Dream Machines [amazon.com] [originally printed circa 1977 ] which describes Dynabook [artmuseum.net]."

If you're implying that MS just decided to rip what they read in a book, I'm not inclined to agree with you. To tell you the truth, I don't think any one person can be credited with conieving of the idea of a computer that can replace the stack of papers on my desk.

Here I am, 2002, and I'm still printing out documents and using a highlighter on them. When there's a change to a website that needs to be made, I still print the page, circle the area, and write the correction that needs to be made. I still have post-it notes all over my monitor. As much as I'd like to be paperless, there's still workflow to think about here.

MS is tackling issues such as these. Part of what the Tablet/Office XP interface (as of marketing literature from a year ago, no idea if it's still true today) interesting is that it's supposed to let you draw on your documents. Unfortunately, I'm having difficulty finding out if they made good on that promise today. (Note for the PocketPC lets you do something like that...)

Assuming they come close to living up to their promises, MS has a rather interesting product on their hands that has not been available before. And when I say not available, I don't mean 'stylus driven laptop', I mean "A portable computer running the de-facto desktop OS that utilizes a stylus similarly to how paper is used."

I'm definitely curious about this product, and I can definitely see people cheering about it. Of course, my decisions remain reserved until I have one of these units to play with. Unfortunately, I don't 100% trust MS to make it non-obnoxious to use until version 3.

What marketing crap. None of this is new.

[aussersterne]

Sheesh, Microsoft once again claims to have invented the wheel and everyone claps. Why is this?

Tablet PCs have been around for more than a decade at least. Fujitsu has the Stylistic and Point lines (some of them very current and very powerful), Casio has the Fiva, Panasonic and Sharp have models, and even the IBM ThinkPad line was originally given its name because the first models were tablet PCs with essentially the same form factor. A number of smaller manufactueres have also been making high-end tablet PCs. Just go to eBay and search for 'tablet pc' and you'll se models running the gamut.

Natural handwriting recognition that works has been around forever. The Newton line of PDAs (which admittedly had trouble in early revisions) had very accurate natural, full-speed handwriting recognition and the ability to annotate documents in ink on a largeish, screen by the mid-90's with the release of the 2000/2100 series. These things can open imported MS Office documents in NewtonWorks and you can mark them up to your heart's content. Meanwhile, Paragraph's Calligrapher (eventually to become Microsoft's Transcriber in a licensing deal) has been available for years for Windows CE tablet PCs (which aren't even mentioned among the models above) and also provided natural handwriting recognition and digital ink for annotating documents. The same Paragraph product for full-fledged tablet PC's was known as PenOffice and provided all of this functionality for users of Tablet PCs running full-fledged Windows. Even Microsoft has done this before (years before) with MS Pen Extensions.

Why is it that Microsoft can always get away with digging up, licensing and/or copying a bunch of old technology that everyone has been before, then throwing a party and calling it their own new invention? It saddens me to think that ten years from now people will believe that MS invented the tablet PC, just like they now believe that Microsoft invented multitasking, databases, graphics, the mouse, the concept of application windows, and the Internet. :(

Re:What marketing crap. None of this is new.

[vsprintf]

Why is it that Microsoft can always get away with digging up, licensing and/or copying a bunch of old technology that everyone has been before, then throwing a party and calling it their own new invention? It saddens me to think that ten years from now people will believe that MS invented the tablet PC, just like they now believe that Microsoft invented multitasking, databases, graphics, the mouse, the concept of application windows, and the Internet.

Agreed. What I can't understand is that until about 10 years ago, Microsoft products were considered toy software, but now businesses act like there is no alternative to MS. It seems like we have a whole bunch of C?O's who swallowed that MS saves you money bullshit and are now behind the eight ball. With Microsoft's new rent-a-license terms, maybe some of them will come to their senses.

apple dropped the ball?

[Dr. Awktagon]

There goes my theory that Apple was going to bust open the tablet PC market. They have all the pieces ready to go, including handwriting technology, Bluetooth/WiFi, and Rendezvous zero-configuration networking.

Imagine the flat-panel iMac without the connecting tube. Everybody says "the screen makes you want to touch it and adjust it" wouldn't it be cool if you could pick it up and carry it into the next office?

Personally, I've been wishing for a nice wireless tablet PC for home use for a while. So I can read slashdot while plopped on the couch, of course. :-)

Re:apple dropped the ball?

[buckhead_buddy]

I've played with Apple's Inkwell handwriting recognition (derived from the Newton's Rosetta recognition software) and was both impressed and annoyed.

First, I tried it on a Wacom tablet hooked up to a flat screen iMac at an Apple Store. Horrible. Don't bother. My accuracy was quite poor. It was really quite a struggle to use. I know that Inkwell "learns" your handwriting but I think my poor accuracy was the disconnect between watching the screen rather than my hand as I wrote.

A few weeks later I tried the Wacom manufactured Cintaq LCD pressure sensitive display when I was at the OS X O'Reilly conference. It was fantasticly better in terms of handwriting recognition. The difference was amazing. One other very cool thing about the Cintaq display was that it could be put at different angles. Though the demonstrator had it in a vertical screen like orientation, most people seemed to find it more natural to have it in a much flatter orientation ... say 10 degrees from horizontal. (kind of like the angle of those old school chairs with built in desk arms). I even tried the Doonesbury test "Egg Freckles?" test which it passed with flying colors.

It wasn't perfect though. What was odd though was switching between the different modes. I'm not sure if this was simply the way the demonstrator had the display set up, but there were definitely three different modes. One was as a mouse replacement (clicking, dragging, etc). One was with the handwriting recognition (I've already described). And one was as a pressure sensitive drawing mode (very cool in Photoshop and Painter). I'm not sure what caused it to switch modes (a button on the pen? something in the interface?) but it certainly wasn't obvious. All of the modes operated wonderfully well individually, but it was the thing that needed the most work.

After the Newton fiasco, I think Apple marketing deliberately doesn't want to appear to be "first" with handwriting technology. My suspicion is that they are refining the hardware and software (by taking feedback from those using it in the wild) but that they want Microsoft to take the first attempt at marketing the technology far and wide to the public and perhaps even fall on their face with a sloppy first implementation.

If Microsoft makes handwriting recognition a technology the general public wants, that's great. Apple will already have it on their checklist as well. But if Microsoft makes huge promises and fails to deliver a good implementation, Apple's marketing can come along saying "This is what they were trying to do. We got it right."

My bet is that the next big release of Mac OS X (ten dot free) aka Panther will have lots of bug fixes and enhancements to make consumers long for new Apple hardware. Things like autoconf-enabled 802.11g base stations, Firewire 2 ports, faster graphics cards, and possibly writable LCD displays.

I think Apple wants to be cautious about overpromising its abilities (Lest it gets the same rep as version 1.0 of the Newton did).

Colleges

[swankypimp]

Imagine trying to follow a lecture on, say, particle physics given by a soft-spoken (or monotonous) professor. Now imagine trying to concentrate on the lecturer over the clickety-clack of hundreds of keyboards taking notes. When I was in school, some teachers banned laptop use in their classes because of this.

And besides, I can't type for shit.

They killed it, now they (try to) resurrect it

[blamanj]

In the late 80's a concept called "Pen Computing" was the Next Big Thing. Companies like Grid were building the hardware, and companies like Go were designing software that would be appropriate to the platform.

Along comes MS with vaporware called "Pen Windows" and the whole industry collapses because everyone wants to see what the 800 lb. gorilla is going to do. Naturally, attempting to kludge up an entirely new UI on top of Windows fails miserably, but not before everyone else runs out of money and the idea dies.

Of course, there were other issues, CPU performance, LCD cost, etc. but the technology was relegated to the Newton (and the subsequent PDA industry) where it has languished for 15 years.

Before it's too late.

[Anonymous Coward]

the entire lecture hall CHEERED a Microsoft product). I believe that Microsoft's own online hype literature is insufficient in describing just how powerful their Tablet concept is.

Someone revoke this guy's slashdot account NOW.

People aren't patents

[Planesdragon]

Depends on MS's purpose in hiring them. It may be that as long as MS can keep the best talent from working for somebody else, it doesn't matter whether they actually produce anything at all.

What?

If a corporation spends a sufficient ammount of money for someone, they're certainly going to put them to work. If they don't produce anything, they probably get fired--and if they produce something that can make MS $, they probably get some sort of bonus.

"Buy to sit on" makes sense for patents, copyrights, and trademarks--but not for people.

Re:People aren't patents

[bergeron76]

Yes, but I'm certain that Billy gives them absolutely no creative control over anything, and balances it with hideous salaries. As a result, they stick around and work on "MS approved" projects.

Re:People aren't patents

[Planesdragon]

Yes, but I'm certain that Billy gives them absolutely no creative control over anything, and balances it with hideous salaries. As a result, they stick around and work on "MS approved" projects.

"Creative Control?"

MS is a software shop, not a comic book store. Their whole business model rests on having everything work together--"creativity", as wonderful as it is, tends to butt heads with other examples of creativity.

I suspect (I won't claim to be "certain" and, unless you're an insider, I don't think you should either) that MS has a set company policy where anyone, from BillG to a mail clerk, can submit a new idea. If the idea's good enough, it'll be made into a new product, or folded into an existing product.

Besides which, getting an idea--or just "being creative"--is easy. Following through on an idea to its completion--any idea--is a harder task, which is more than enough challenge for the brightest minds in the industry.

If you doubt me, well, look at how long the HURD is taking. Great idea, but getting it to work has, apparantly, been a PITA.

MS's problems are predatory business practices and marketing-controlled engineering. The engineers and coders themselves are, by all accounts I've ever heard, very skilled and competent--they're just given a rather torrid working environment.

Re:People aren't patents

[jejones]

Didn't MS hire away some people from Borland?

Re:People aren't patents

[bmajik]

i would love to give you a long and detailed explanation of where this "argument" falls down, but its easier to just cut to the chase:

you're stupid.

If you want to understand what MS research is, why dont you visit the web sites ? I'll give you a hint. At a research university, there are a bunch of faculty. They cut their time between doing research and teaching. Big name professors are big names because of their research interests, publications, and sometimes industry connections. Not because they're swell teachers.

MS research is similar. Except nobody wastes any time teaching.

It is typically NOT the case that research in MSR is vagely related to something that can be productized. It is PURE computer science research, in a wide variety of areas. Sometimes, some of this research has huge upside for something MS wants to do with a product. Sometimes that takes years. You should browse through the different projects and talks on the MSR site, and ask yourself how much of that you see in MS products today.

As far as "creative freedom", well, i happen to know a few people at MSR that are doing their work on linux, because they feel like it.

Re:People aren't patents

[bergeron76]

Stupid is relative. You would've had a lot more credibility if you'd have refrained from "name-calling" in your argument. I find the following clause from your webpage "stupid":

Numbers and Planets: Those born on the 30th of the month are ruled by the number 3, and by the planet Jupiter. Those ruled by the number 3 generally try to rise to the highest positions in their particular sphere. Because Jupiter also rules Sagittarius, expansive, optimistic and magnanimous influences are maximized for November 30 people but, indeed, excessive tendencies are as well. Those ruled by the number 3 love independence, so November 30 people may do best free-lancing or in business for themselves.

But as I said, stupid is relative. I agree that I may not know MSFT internals as well as you appear to. As such, I'd consider myself "uninformed" on the topic. But, stupid? No. Your website, is stupid [sarcasm], but I digress.

I do give you credit for your argument, and that's what matters. Just mark me as your Foe, and we'll move on.

Re:People aren't patents

[bmajik]

it is stupid of you to present your uninformed conjecture about what goes on at MSR as fact. You don't have any idea what people at MSR do, so why did you post a message at all ? There are so many other ways for a slashdotter to express that they dislike microsoft and anything about microsoft, what made you choose this particular subject ? Just curious.

its funny that you dug through my website and found that. its an excerpt from a book i bought called "The secret meaning of birthdays" or some such. I bought it because i picked a few random people that i knew, and the pages about their birthdays generally seemed to describe them pretty well. To this day i haven't decided if theres "something to it", or if the wording is sufficiently general to let anyone read into it whatever they like. (i.e. "oh, i could see that about her, this book is right on the money!")

I dont have friends or foes. (But apparently some people have marked me as their friend/foe). I don't dislike you, i dont _acutally_ think you're stupid, and you're right, it was lame of me to counteract your hipshot with one of my own.

How about this -- next time you have a question about MSR, i'll point you at the information you want. There are plenty of factual reasons to dislike microsoft, so lets keep this a clean fight :)

Apple

[nfotxn]

Hmm, there's Inkwell for OS 10.2 and the iBook and TiBook are over-due for an upgrade.

Will Apple do it too? Most importantly, will they do it better?

Re:unbelievable

[bergeron76]

I believe that Microsoft's own online hype literature is insufficient in describing just how powerful their Tablet concept is.

Oh, and the input stylus is electromagnetic, not pressure-sensing, ANY document (not just MS) can be annotated, and the journal software is AMAZING in its power and flexibility.

Whatever makes you think that this comment was submitted by a Microsoft promoter?

Could it be the fact that he was able to pick out the 150 linux users in the crowd and knew that they were "floored" by the Tablet PC demo?

This submission has stink written all over it. Good call.

Corel Grafigo

[frank249]

I was surprised that Corel's Grafigo Tablet grahics /colaboration application was not mentioned. It has already been previewed last Sept at Seybold and got good reviews here. Corel started development early with Microsoft and designed it from scratch for the Tablet PC. From all accounts it is one of the best apps.

Really On The Right Track

[robertmc]

I am not a fan of Microsoft, but this time they are really on the right track. I work in the imaging field and got a chance to play with a Tablet PC over a two day period in July. I attended a conference with Microsoft's Bert Keely (who is in charge of the project) who guided me through its features.

Comments from people who have never or barely used the machines should be discounted. The work done at Microsoft Research in the area of merging bitmap and vector algorithms and compression/journaling (per the "behind the scenes account") is far beyond anything of which I am aware on any competing platform.

That said, the resources necessary to accomplish the promoted tasks are large and will affect battery life. When the machines debut on November 7th and become integrated into the lives of the targeted audience, I believe it will become clear that, this time anyway, Microsoft is farther down the road than anyone else.

About half of all Americans cannot type or efficiently use a keyboard. Not surprisingly, that's also about the penetration of PC use in the general population. This could be Microsoft's bid to achieve similar penetration of such appliances as the television and the telephone.

Re:unbelievable

[Anonymous Coward]

Quite frankly, though we all have differing opinions, I am gettign pretty sick of the blanket M$ bashing.

It is surprising that such intelligent persons can have such small minded ways and a lack of rational discussion.

Actually, I place the blame on moderators modding up so many stupid comments as funny, insightful and interesting. It seems that most of you do not realize that without M$, the internet and daily computing would be nothing like it is now.

Re:It's a concept worth developing

[blamanj]

Oh, I agree it's worth the research, and I, too, still actively use a Newton (MP2K).

I was just noting the power of MS on a fledgling industry and its ability to both kill it or hype it back into life. Sad that we lost 15 years of development, though.

Highly pre-mature attempt..

[Ogerman]

The technology required to truly replace pen and paper with something more effective is probably 10-20 years off. A 75-100 dpi LCD screen just doesn't cut it compared to a quality fine-tip pen on a piece of notebook paper. Neither does the lag of screen output and character recognition. And what more, these Tablet PC's are way too large and heavy.. and they use short-lived batteries.. and they're really, really expensive!

When I brainstorm, sketch, diagram, etc. I use paper and pen. When I write, program, or do anything else structured, I use a keyboard. I have precisely zero need or desire for one of these "Tablet PC's."

Now, a real piece of innovation would be "electronic paper" nearly as flat and flexible as the real thing. Think 400dpi with a reversible draw/erase stylus. But it should be dumb--nothing more than a reflective monochrome bitmap device. You draw to turn pixels on and erase to turn them off. And it's only interface would be to transfer these page bitmaps to and from my desktop or laptop. (where I can do character recognition if I really need it) This electronic paper would also be excellent for reading books, newspapers, docs, man pages, etc.

Nothing new?

[Otis_INF]

Some here moan about "This is nothing new!", "[insert company here] did this in [insert random year here]"!!

If that's so true, why can't I go to a store and buy a product with the specs of the TabletPC or better?

The TabletPC is the first incarnation of a kind of product some people will find useful. Let them. The moment you all start to cry out loud that it's nothing new, it will suck or similar crap, think about this: "as soon as a competitor comes up with a more useful product running Linux, you have all right to cry fool. Until then, shut up, learn and listen."

The vectorization of the handwriting, f.e. the copy/paste functionality of your handwritten text into an email, it's cool stuff. As software-developers, you have to admit: it's software that has a serie of interesting specs.

Why oh why is it then so damn hard to admit MS made something cool? Because it doesn't run Linux? So? "Use the tool that fits the job.(tm)".

X supports touch screens too ..

[konmaskisin]

big wup...

How long before libXsvg modules ...

[konmaskisin]

and XRnR... make X capable of "recognizing" vectors scratched at any angle on *any screen* the server can communicate with.

SVG is the killer secret computing technology. 10 years in the making in W3C labs, perfected by Gnome, built in to Mozilla and waiting to be bundled into X and ....

BLOW EVERYTHING OUT OF THE WATER!

Re:sig (WAY offtopic)

[MarkusQ]

# gcc communist_manifesto.txt
# diff a.out /usr/sbin/sendmail
#

So what you're saying is that if you compile the communist manifesto you get out a sendmail binary?

No, I think he's (either) suggesting that you compare the result of compiling the file communist_manifesto.txt with the sendmail binary (but not in any way predicting the results) or (under the more likely assumption that the file does not contain a syntactically valid program) pointing out to us 1) that gcc deletes any preexisting a.out if it is given an invalid source file and 2) you can confirm this by trying to diff it with something, since diff will complain that the file doesn't exist.

He's correct, but I can't help but think that there are easier ways of accomplishing the same thing.

-- MarkusQ

P.S. Ah! I see! It's a clever way of removing a.out if and only if the file communist_manifesto.txt exists and does not contain a syntactically valid program. I'm not sure why you would want to do this, but it is a rather clever hack if you need it.

Re:Ah, memories of the Newton.

[zephc]

Crap man, did you have like the first newton iteration? Because I have a 130, and while its a little laggy for HWR, its VERY good about recognizing my handwriting, which can go from bad to worse at any time. A friend has a 2000 or 2100 (can't remember which) and he's working on a port of a Palm emulator for it, and that thing is both accurate AND fast for HWR

electromagnetic stylus!=good

[quick_dry_3]

Other than it being rather like a magna-doodle, as a user, why would i want an electromagnetic stylus versus a normal touch screen? (other than a reason to do more cleaning because you can't use the device until you find that stylus)

The touch screen means you can use anything, stylus, stick, finger, pen, etc to type, write or press buttons on the systems screen.

A special electromagnetic stylus means you need to use the stylus, what good is that? If I'm just browsing the web, or queuing some music to play in my futuristic wireless home, its much easier to just pick it up and press thse on-screen buttons with a finger than screw about with a stylus.

When i use my iPAQ I only use the stylus to type, reading email, web, ebooks, and most othr uses I just use a fingertip - for handwriting a fingernail gives enough pressure and precision.

Given a normal touch screen I'd love to have a few of these, but I'll pass on those glorified magn-doodles.

Re:electromagnetic stylus!=good

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

I thought it would be obvious that by not using an ordinary touch screen, it means you can safely rest you hand on the pad without the pointer going crazy.

Maybe someone can make a hybrid version.

Re:Ah, memories of the Newton.

[__aaaaxm1522]

Agreed. I purchased the OMP (Original MessagePad) and was appalled at it's handwriting recognition - it was just as bad as the Simpsons and Doonesbury cartoons made it out to be.

But despite it's shortcomings, the platform was promising. So when the MP130 came out (I skipped the 110 and 120), I picked one up. What a difference! The thing nailed my handwriting within the first couple days. Here was a completely usable PDA, with excellent PIM functionality. The Intelligent Assistant was tres cool - you'd simply write "Lunch with joe on Friday" and it would open up an appointment slip for 12 noon the following Friday, and present you with a list of "Joes" from your addressbook. Two taps and the appointment was scheduled.

I picked up a 2100 shortly thereafter, and life couldn't be better - 206 Mhz StrongARM processor, tons o'RAM, two PCMCIA slots... ethernet support, and wicked-fast and accurate HWR. My only complaint? It was a little too big. But I just picked another one up to replace my Sony Clie - PalmOS and PocketPC still haven't matched it's functionality.

Type Vs. Handwriting

[BryanL]

I wonder about the future of these things. When I was in high school only girls took typing (to prepare them to be secretaries.) My typing is horrendous. I wish I had taken typing.

Today, keyboarding is taught in jr. high to every student. Twelve year olds type better than me.

I would love a tablet pc with good handwriting recognition, but in ten years will that be the same? I wonder if the tablet pc came about because some exec is from a past generation and lacks good typing skills. If so, what will happen when the next generation comes along and can type well (or type better with just their thumbs) and has less of a need for a tablet.

Re:unbelievable

[Shelled]

Don't read this as personal, but I find it difficult to unravel the multiple ironies of your post and its current moderation.

- Though I agree blanket MS bashing is counter-productive and infantile, by phrasing it as a blanket bash against Slashdot and its readers you risk the same.
- Your post takes to task Slashdot moderators as anti-MS goons, yet those same moderators are modding up your mildly anti-Slashdot, pro-MS post.
- The things you say about MS are at best highly debatable, yet again those same moderators currently have your AC post at +3 'Insightful' (I would love to hear how MS has made the Internet so much better, or how much smaller the computing world would be today had the standards been Apple and Netscape or real competition.)

I agree, the moderation on Slashdot could be a whole lot better and simplistic MS bashing without substantive argument to back it up is a waste of bandwidth, but the way to fix it isn't simply doing the same from the opposite side of the fence.

Exactly!

[SectoidRandom]

You always here such hype about "more natural imput", but that is a joke, keyboard's are so much more efficient than either handwriting or voice! Convinience factor is slightly different, and sure this helps there, it isnt so easy to type (or hand-write for that matter) while walking down the hallway..

But I recently read a study on the effectivness of voice imput, the fact is that speach and writing use completly different parts of the brain, so much so that writing (typing / etc) uses so much less brain power that it free's you completly to think! So not only is voice imput slower it is vastly more inefficient as it limits your thinking!

Microsoft HARDWARE

[Simon Garlick]

...is, in my experience, almost always fantastic. I for one could not live without a 5-button Intellimouse Explorer and a Natural Pro keyboard, and I have MS gamepads and joysticks for gaming.

Say what you want about Microsoft's software, marketing, and management... but their hardware products are amazingly good.

Yeah, right .

[bluefusion]

OK . Microsoft gets points for putting handwriting recognition into a small device? No, we had the Newton and many other handwriting recognition devices before this. So is the fact that the 0S has suddenly integrated the handwriting recognition a big deal? They sure make it SOUND good, but do we really care? Now the clincher. I am writing this entirely on a tablet . But not a Tablet PC. No, I'm using my Wacom via Mac OS X Jaguar;s "Ink" technology. It's not perfect, but its pretty damn close. Handwriting recognition really isn't that big of a deal. [resumes normal typing] OK, my allowed edits were to correct extra spaces and to fix ONE letter per word maximum. And you know what? Once I turned the "spacing" sensitivity down, it stopped putting in extra spaces, PLUS I only had to change six letters in the entire portion above. It works. The problem is, it's SO much faster to type. So before you start making a big deal over the fact that Windows has handwriting recognition, realize that not only does the Mac OS have it already, (as usual) but that Apple doesn't even bother making a big deal of it, even though their handwriting recognition is GOOD, because guess what? It's NOT A BIG DEAL. Does anyone really think that I can write faster than my 96 wpm average? I think not. But you CAN do this already if you want to. The fact that Microsoft bundles their proprietary OS with a bunch of extra recognition stuff isn't a revolutionary concept. The fact that it works--and relatively well, too--isn't even a revolutionary concept. Jaguar's Ink tech, brought from the Newton era, still does its job. The fact that Microsoft can match it seven years later is really not worth making a fuss over. So I ask again-- what advantage, besides the obvious larger screen, does this have over my carrying around a Visor Prism with a keyboard? And don't tell me that the keyboard is hard to set up-- it takes three seconds max. Why would anyone want a Tablet PC? Really?

Re:unbelievable

[Lumpy]

No they didnt.. tablet PC's have been around for decades... and this STUPID idea of using a special pen instead of a touch screen is pure stupidity... I have several decades old tablet PC's that use the "special pen" and they completely suck compared to the Fujitsu Point 510's that use a regualy touchscren so you can use a plastic stylus or your finger...

Microsoft isnt innovating crap... they are trying to once again sell something that has been around forever.

you want one? go to ebay and search for pen pc or touchscreen pc.
get one for $100 to $1500.00 depending on processor and features...

late

[cosyne]

I saw one of these a few months ago, along with a prototype of their phone os. It was cool shit. I was impressed. I nearly faltered in my flaming passionate anti-MS hatred (the one with the big rusty acid dripping spikes sticking out of it). It was like the time i set my Win2k laptop down next to an IRDA-enabled LaserJet, and i could just print to it. Both times, I was impressed with what MS had done. But on both those occasions, the same thing occured to me which brought me back to my normal state: if it weren't for microsoft, i could probably have done this years ago. I'm pretty sure one of my dad's friends had a tablet on his desktop back in the early 80s. I was like 6 at the time so it's a but fuzzy, but tablet technology has been under development for most of my lifetime. And IR data? My parent's replaced the old B&W tv with no VHF knob around the time of the 1984 olympics, and the new tv came with and IR remote. Granted, your standard TV remote doesn't do hundreds of Kbits/sec, but the ideas and the basic technology were there. We needn't have waited for microsoft to decide they were good and ready to support _______. If they didn't take such rigorous steps to destroy competition in the computer sector, I think we'd be years ahead of where we are now. Microsoft didn't start the computer revolution, they just bullied their way into an illegal monopoly over it. Sure, WinXP TabletPC edition is cool. But for all the money we've given them, we should expect more than this.

Ok, done now. (And for the record, vague references to "we" are basically intedned to include the whole world, because the advancement of computer technology affects or will affect most of Earth's population in the near future. The idea of naming it the "Information Age" is that IT is at least as important to human history as stone, bronze, industry, and nuclear technology. )

Believe the hype

[Hiawatha]

I've got an Acer prototype Tablet PC and I'm here to tell you it's way cool. Those Linux guys should be applauding. Those who say Microsoft never innovates will have to give it up for them this time. The Tablet PC is a major step forward in laptop technology. I'm not quite prepared to give up the keyboard. But if you use the model that's basically a convertible laptop/tablet device, you get the best of both worlds. If I were Apple, I'd be trying to copy this--quick. It's exactly the sort of thing Apple should have done first.

Even Then...

[krmt]

will people buy it?

MS also built on Aha! Inkwriter

[GlenRaphael]

don't get it. The Newton was a piece of crud that failed because the technology was crap. Doonesbury and Scott Adams were not being unfair in their cartoons,

Gary Trudeau had never used a Newton before doing the comic which he intended to make fun of PDAs in general rather than specifically the Newton. Trudeau was so favorably impressed with the Newton MP120 once he got a chance to use one that he drew this panel to be used as an easter egg in the Newton 2.0 ROMs.

The 2.0 Newton had awesome technology, but it was ahead of its time - nobody really knew what a PDA was for at the time. The MessagePad 2000 was great but cost over $1000 and was the size and weight of a small brick.

Most engineering is incremental development rather than a paradigm shift.

This is true. Microsoft has done some excellent work incrementally improving the Aha! InkWriter technology they bought a decade ago and moving some of its features into the OS. And I hope they keep at it, because there's a lot of improvement still to be made.

Here's a brief review of Bill's talk at Comdex 2000 the last time he made a big deal of Tablet PCs.

Re:unbelievable

[dubiousmike]

It was more of a sarcastic irony...

This isn't being done by Microsoft

[TheConfusedOne]

Probably the really useful aspects of a tablet PC are being enabled by other companies. The people over at Parascript are making really huge strides in handwriting recognition.

The problem with all of these is that they're dictionary based. We got one of the ViewSonic tablets in here and I fired up IE and tried to do "http://slashdot.org" through the handwriting recognition. Needless to say it was a horrible failure.

Also, try inputing any passwords into the system? You either have to tap away at the soft keyboard or you're completely SOL.

Finally, how do you press 'Ctrl+Alt+Del' on a PC that has no keyboard? In the case of the ViewSonic tablet you couldn't even log in because the handwriting and keyboard support were in the OS and didn't start until the desktop was there.