Slashdot Mirror
BMG Stops Producing CDs
An Anonymous Cow writes "The register has a new story about claims by Bertelsmann that they'll stop manufacturing uncrippled audio CDs. More can be found on Bertelsmann's own site (info by region, Europe only). Trouble playing it in your car stereo? According to BMG the error is your player's, and not their CD's. Quote: 'As far as we were advised, our copy protection is according to the Red Book Standard as well as all labelling on the cd.' In English: they don't even find it necessary to indicate on the CD cover that it's copy protected, nor do they think it advisable to listen to Philips' objections against using the CD logo on crippled discs, instead there's a label claiming that the CD is fully Red Book-compliant. It looks like this is a test case, because only all European CDs will be crippled."
The correct term is "differently abled CD's"
: )
Don't read this!
No wonder they complain about decreasing CD sales if they stop shipping CDs...
False Advertising...
How about BMG create their own standards and call it something else?
I am sure this will lead to more sales, because everyone knows when you spit in the customers eye and take away their ability to do that which they did before, they always reward you for it.
--Joey
Your scrambled ToC is no match for my superior patch cable and audio in!
There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
Well, if I can no longer spend my hard-earned money on CDs that will play on the various CD players around my house (including, I might add, the one in my computer), guess I'll have to resort to just downloading the songs instead from whatever Napster-clone I decide to use at the time... And all this time I thought they WANTED us to be buying their CDs... Sheesh!
If you BUY their products, you will only encourage them.
If you stop paying for their products, the RIAA and MPAA won't have money to pay congressmen/women for laws like the DMCA.
How can you claim a device not able to play Red Book compliant disks is a CD player?
"BMG attaches great importance to assuring that the copy protection used does not lead to restrictions for consumers with respect to listening pleasure. Those who play back their purchased product on a standard home CD Audio player will not notice any difference at all."
... New trends and
talents can only emerge if music is bought..."
Does this mean that I cannot listen to CDs on my computer without being concidered a consumer without respect to listening pleasure?
"In the long term, massive copying deprives music-makers of their very livelihood.
I prefer listening to musicians who play music because they enjoy it, not for the money. As for the veri livelihood, I'd say that the ability to sample non-mainstream artists without having to stand in line at my local music store has made me by more CDs than ever before. I suggest that this assumption is down right wrong.
"...this decline is attributed to a large extent to unauthorised CD-R copying."
Or perhaps due to a downwards tendency of the entire economy. Sales will fluctuate, so don't blame the customers, make new and better products.
Seriously. It seems to me that if they are going to be using the CD logo (even stating outright that the disk is compliant to Red Book standards) that Philips should be able to haul them to court over improper and misleading usage of Philip's trademark.
Don't know if Philips has enough interest in doing so, though. After all, removing the mark from these "discs that kind of look like CDs" would probably make zero difference to the buying public, but would in fact remove a (probably small) revenue stream for Philips (BMG would no longer need to licence the trademark for their packaging).
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
The disc may be barely compliant with the red book specs for cd audio, but the changes to the 'redundant' data to throw data decoders will ensure the error handling capability is serverely reduced. One scratch could literally kill your CD. Thing is, the majority of consumer electronics firms are rapidly going in the MP3 direction (hence data drives) which would spit out 'protected discs'. This is the manufacturing industry going one way and the media industry going the other. That leaves the consumers caught between a rock and a hard place. :-(
"All out books are completely normal and qualify for Library of Congress cataloging... we've simply removed the text as a precautionary measure to defeat the thieving scum of the world." says spokesman Yanash Smythe.
A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself.
I suspect they're engaged on some wacko conspiracy: "Do as much as we can to lose money and then blame it on customers. And then, once we've reached bottom, we'll ... um ... well, we haven't figured that part out yet. Our goal is to simply piss off consumers, hit bottom, and then blame folks."
What's interesting is that three years ago I was an active CD buyer. I was constantly buying stuff at Best Buy, was a member of all the CD clubs (even though that wasn't making anyone much money), and buying CDs on-line weekly.
Now, I've stopped. I won't buy another CD because I have no idea whether or not it will play in what I want to play it in, and I have absolutely no desire to try to bring it back to a place like Best Buy or send it back to a place like CDNOW or Amazon.com.
Instead, I'm enjoying my "old" CDs, installed my old Technics phonograph, and actively search out obscure stuff -- mostly CDs, some vinyl -- in local record stores. My music listening experience has gone way, way up, and I'm spending less than ever -- but finding stuff I like.
And I'll occasionally drop into Kazaa to listen to new stuff and try and determine, say, why Justine Timberlake is putting out new albums that sound like vintage Michael Jackson or why U2 and Aerosmith insist on putting out a new greatest hits album every other week or why Bob Dylan's *old* stuff is far and away better than anything he's put out since Infidels (which was, IMHO, the last good Dylan album). But that's about it.
So, yes, to the RIAA I say this: if your goal is to piss-off customers and lose them permanently -- congratulations!
It was good while it lasted. Guess it's time to stop buying my music and start stealing it like everyone else. :(
They are going to produce a product which is the same size as a CD, and even looks the same. But if it won't play on a CD player then it's not a CD.
...because of this whole war they are waging on their customers.
Do you?
Watch as a new generation of young people (ages 6 through 16) hit Kazaa. Then Gnutella when Kazaa shuts down. When Peekabooty when P2P is getting hammered by **IA.
It's great news! I'm not being sarcastic. When they have to go to such lengts to protect a dead business model, all we have to do is sit back and laugh. And teach our familes how to use WinAmp or iTunes.
They FUNNY SHIT is this... I'd gladly pay PER SONG for an OGG download. But $20 for crap on an obsolete medium (CD's)? HA! Never...
Again, in short, they are dying and this is the first sign. enjoy the ride, you'll tell your grandkids about this.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Us consumers in the US can look to our government to stand up to this overt attack on our rights! Politicians in Washington aren't going to let these big record companies galavant about stomping on our rights!
After all, this is our culture that we're talking about. Surely the music of the time belongs to the people, right!? It's ours to share, the same as our wisdom and our stories, with each other freely. We all know that the progression of culture depends on the constant cycle of old becoming new, new artists seeking inspiration from those that went before.
I'm confident that the new government in Washington will honor these sacred things. We're all in good hands now!
Let's all have a glass of Victory Gin!
My Karma was at 49, then they switched to words. All that work for nothing!
An analogy. You try to get a restraining order against some guy. The judge throws it out of court for lack of grounds. So you keep crank calling him, and egging his car, until he is so ticked off that you actually do need the protection.
---
When you come to a fork in the road, take it! --Yogi Berra--
Just because a program compiles, it doesn't mean it will work. It simply means it complies with the language specification and it's syntactially correct. The program itself might not work at all.
The same goes for CDs. The specification doesn't neccessarily mean that the CD will be playable - only that it has certain features and is encoded in a certain way.
Nick...
... felt tip marker sales soar through the roof
This is just getting more and more stupid. I'm not going to go download stuff from Kazaa just get, for one the effort it'd take to get it going in Wine combined with the general nastyness of the software and illegallity of it has put me off until now. I'm waiting for (and soon hopefully doing something about) the gift economy as a new model for music distribution, but there are quite a few technical and social hurdles to overcome first.
How long can the music industry keep this up though before what happened to Microsoft with Linux happens to the RIAA - the little people come out of the woodwork and come up with something new? Not long at this rate. Not long at all.
A quote from BMG's website:
Two years ago, on a worldwide basis, one digital copy was made for every three music CDs sold. Last year, that ratio had shrunk dramatically to one-to-two. In 2001, for every CD album sold, one copy was burned.
Actually the statistic I read is that in 2001 for every CD album sold, one CD-R disc was sold. Obviously we can't assume that every single CD-R disc sold in the world was used to copy a copyrighted CD. Based on my experience in statistics and research methods regarding sampling and surveys(Psych major),I'm fairly confident that no one will ever be able to claim how many CD-R's were actually used to copy copyrighted material, so any numbers they throw at us should not be believed.
My personal theory is that the surge of independent music(which is easily accesible on the internet)is really why the major labels sales are down. Not only is independent music usually better, but it's available for free on P2P's all the time(which is why killing Kazaa/Gnucleus/etc. would seriously hurt the independent musician, and give more power back to major labels). I guess I'm preaching to choir here at slashdot though.
"...One scratch could literally kill your CD."
Sounds like they want stem piracy and to increase cash flow by resales because of "SCRATCHED" CDs. That's what they liked about vinyl. When you just can't stand the POPS & SKIPS on "Dark Side Of The Moon" any more, you buy another copy. How did you think it stayed on the Billboard Top 100 for over 10 YEARS! Damn those seeds!!!
It also reduces the second-hand CD sales like Half.com. Some indipendent music stores were being pressured by the record companies not handle "Used CDs" (...or is it Perviously Owned?).
Any way you look at it, increased cash flow is the main motive. Buy once, buy often.
>> Practice Safe Hex
Arista Records
BMG U.S. Latin
Buddha
BMG Asia Pacific
J Records
Yclef Records
Logic
RCA Records
RCA Victor Group (includes Private Music, RCA Victor, Red Seal, and Windham Hill)
Robbins Entertainment
Zomba Label Group (includes Brentwood, Jive, Jive-Electro, Reunion, Silvertone, and Verity)
They also distribute ATO, Kinetic Records, Milan, Razor & Tie, Restless, Santuary Records Group, V2 and Wind-Up.
And I'm sure I've missed a few....
Kierthos
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
No? Look at the aggressive line that they're taking. "These are RedBook CD's and the problem is in your player". You can bet your life that they'll pass this position on to retaillers and make it 100% clear that they won't be accepting "bad media" returns on these disks.
So try taking one of these crippled music disks back to MonstroMart and claiming that it doesn't play in your CD player. Last month they'd have taken it back (maybe), and that cost Bertelsmann money. This month, they'll trot out the "the fault is in your player" line like the loyal little appendages that they are and stonewall you, because of two things. One, they know that it's not like you've got a choice in how you obtain music in the future, because every store will be carrying crippled disks, and two, if it turns out that your daddy is a lawyer, they can always point the finger at Bertelsmann and claim that ze vere only obeying orders.
Those people predicting a drop in sales that will scare off other music behemoths need to take a clue pill. Mandy Music Buyer doesn't read The Register or Slashdot, and she won't know about these crippled disks until she buys one. She'll buy the disk, then find out that it's crippled. Sure, she'll be pissed off if she can't play it in her mom's SUV's CD player (Mandy Music Buyer is 12-18, remember), but what's she going to do? Stop buying music disks? Friends, if she's still buying them today, she's not going to switch to kazaa or gnutella tomorrow. She's going to keep buying them and whine at her mommy that the man at the music store said the SUV's CD player was broken.
And heck, let's say I'm wrong, and sales do take a noticable dip. What are BMG going to blame it on? Their own greed and stupidity? Hahahaha! I'll give you short odds on "global economy" or (more likely) that this proves that people are thieves and criminals, and that we need Fritz chips right now to preserve Truth, Justice and the American Way. It's win-win for them, and all our outraged ranting won't make it otherwise.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
I'd like to point everyone to cdbaby.com.
It's the best record store I've found anywhere. It's full of independent artists in every genre you could want. They have a sweet feature where you search for a band you like, say Limp Bizkit or POD, and it gives you independent artists like Stink!#Bug or Burning Edge. All the albums for sale have at least half of their tracks available to listen to before you buy.
If you aren't happy you can send your CD back for a full refund.
They even have a wide selection of jazz and classical performances.
I guess the artists get a pretty fat percentage of the profits from the CD. Much more than they would get if they were signed with a major label.
I'm not affiliated with CD Baby in anyway except as a very happy customer. Super happy. Happy happy happy. I've never been so happy about my relationship with a business.
If you are like me, you love music but don't support the rape of artists by major labels. CD Baby is the best place I've found to satisfy my cravings for great tunes. All of the CDs I've purchased from them played on my computer just fine, and ripped to ogg with no problems.
obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
I find this sentence especially amusing from the Bertelsmann's site :
"World music sales for the year 2001 fell by 5% in value and by 6,5% in units."
Blaming that music downloaders where the reason for the fell. I wonder if they remember that there was a recession in 2001, IT bubble broke and almost all industries fell into downswing. It would've been a miracle if CD sales hadn't dropped at all and 5% is LITTLE compared to the bankruptcies that other industries had to deal with.
(It's amazing that restaurants don't blame home cooks for the recession, stealing the recipes that they use, and using them free at home! can you see the analogy?)
What do you mean, encoding?
The red book standard is as naked as it can be. Basically it provides for:
1) A TOC. Table of contents containing information on track start and stop time. Generally a lead-in and lead out apply, taking approximately 25 Mb space on the disc. The rest is reserved for the body of audio data.
2) Digital wave info. A 44.1 Khz stereo wave recorded digitally onto the CD's surface. This is done in a non-encoded (let's not get caught in the semantical discussion on digitising vs encoding, please... ) way. There's not even any ECC or EDC information in that scheme. The CDDA red book standard is a butt-naked RAW audio data standard.
The Red-book standard technically does not allow for fancy schmancy stuff such as mixed-mode discs, multiple sessions (which is how mixed mode is made) and such.
Adherence To The Specification WILL mean that a CD will be playable in any CD-player that has been made since 1981. Period. This is a non debatable point.
If you BUY their products, you will only encourage them.
But if you don't TELL them you've stopped buying their products, they assume it's just a sales slump, and devote more time, energy, and most of all MONEY to passing bad laws and trying to enforce copy-protection. After all, they already KNOW what causes sales slumps -- piracy and P2P applications. (Never mind the facts, they know the truth.)
So as I've said before (and nobody, apparently, was listening), it's not enough to just stop buying. You have to tell them about it, too.
I'm not a geek, I'm just a clever script.
Big problem, for the same reason they won't play in cdrom's these new cd's won't play in a spdif enabled cd audio player. The goal for the media companies is to keep us from having "perfect digital copies" What they fail to realize is 90+% of people don't care about perfect. If they did they wouldn't be trading 128 or 192 mp3's. The loss from a good analog audio cable is much less then the loss from a 128k mp3. Besides people used to copy tape to tape back in the day, if people find that level of quality exceptable then anything else should be fine. What the do end up doing is pissing off people like me who want to stick the cd they bought into the cdrom, have it ripped and tagged and then send it to our portable. I personally have an iPod and I rip everything at ~220k VBR using LAME, not something I can get off of kazaa or whatever.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
And heck, let's say I'm wrong, and sales do take a noticable dip. What are BMG going to blame it on? Their own greed and stupidity? Hahahaha! I'll give you short odds on "global economy" or (more likely) that this proves that people are thieves and criminals, and that we need Fritz chips right now to preserve Truth, Justice and the American Way. It's win-win for them, and all our outraged ranting won't make it otherwise.
... leading to ... show me this ogg-vorbis stuff you've been talking about!), "This is strange, I can't play the CD in the car but it works fine at home" (ah, you bought a crippled CD. Welcome to the future the Recording Cartels have planned for us ... you're only allowed to play that CD in specially authorized players), and so on.
You are right, our outraged ranting on slashdot won't make it otherwise.
However, our outraged ranting to our families, our friends, our coworkers, and our business associates (over beer, after work, etc.) will make all the difference in the world.
I have already shocked, appalled, and outraged numerous people simply by telling them what has been going on. It is particularly effective when it is done in response to "I think my PC is broken, it no longer plays my music" (oops, you saved your music in windoze media format and didn't unclick the DRM option. You won't be able to forget to do that in the next version of windows, because there won't be an option to unclick, everything will be 'protected.'
I have educated a pretty large number of non-savvy people about what is going on with the DMCA (Sklyrov, etc.), the RIAA (Janis Ian, Prince, etc. al documenting the recording industry's rape of artists AND consumers, etc.), and the MPAA (Fritz Disney Hollings et al), and they are pissed. Not at me, for ranting about technical issues they don't care about, but at these organizations and our hopelessly corrupt, wicked government. They are pissed because it has become painfully obvious that we do live under the tyranny of evil men, with apparently no way out, and they are sick of giving money to such.
So now they buy less CDs, attend less concerts, and go to less movies than before. Not a complete boycott like myself, but they are spending less and they are much, much more aware.
Which brings me to the the point of all this: there is one way in which WE, not THEY, can and should win:
Simply stop buying their crap.
Like music? Listen to independent artists ONLY. Do not buy any CDs from any record company, buy them direct from the artist or not at all. And if they are crippled, return them and publicly blacklist the artist for what they've done.
Like movies? Go see independent films only. If you cannot get over your pathetic addiction to the mindless bread and circuses of Hollywood, at least avoid seeing movies during the first two weeks of release (when most of the revninue goes to the studios), instead wait and see the movies in third or fourt weeks (when most of the revinue goes to the local thatre). Not as good as a proper boycott, but better than following the stampede.
In the end, though, is to simply be unforgiving of such people. Don't buy their stuff now, and don't ever buy it again. Get enough of your friends to feel likewise, and they will falter, even ultimately perish.
No one likes losing their freedom, and everyone sees it happening. Until now, they've only had the vague notion that 'the government' is taking away their freedoms and 'it doesn't seem to matter who we elect.'
Now there is a specific target for that ire, for that anger, a specific, relatively small group of companies that are actively, methodically, and deliberately stripping us of our freedoms, and use government collussion or, at best, apathy go do it.
And, unlike (most) governments, companies are something we as individuals can topple.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
But this is all so silly. Look, most people know the following..(you didn't? ok, now you do.)
The audio degradation experienced by ripping a CD via analog means (by either plugging in a cable into the line-out of the CD player and recording with any PC recording application, or using the 'Rip to Analog" feature of Musicmatch) is far less than the degradation produced by MP3 compression.
Since six years of MP3 has shown us that for the vast majority of people, even 160kbps MP3 encoding is "good enough," how will this stop their music from being pirated?
Very few people actually rip and upload...Gartner and Forrester both agree that 95% of mp3 content on P2P and other filesharing systems comes from less than 10% of the community. All you need is one guy to rip the content to analog, then upload. BMG will see no net reduction of pirating of their content.
Irnonically, the only ones to suffer from this inane decision are those who legitimately purchased the "CD." They will be plagued with a hobbled, limited-use product, which may actually convince them that P2P is actually a more convenient choice. No one else will even notice, as they will continue to download the content.
"The pie shall be cut in half and each man shall receive.....death. I'll eat the pie."
You have a 3rd option.
Send it back.
And I don't mean the CD.
Send your CD player back. The entire thing. Send it back to Sony/Philips/whoever and say that your new BMG CD won't play in it, and that you want them to fix it. Tell all your friends that the BMG CD doesn't work in Sony's CD players. To be honest, no matter what we do as individuals will affect BMG. Sony, on the other hand, have very big legal teams, and wouldn't particularly like BMG telling people that their products are broken.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
What these schemes will accomplish is allow the industry to say to Congress, "Look, we tried copy prevention on our own, it didn't work, we need new laws that require DRM chips in everything."
(incidentally, Barbara Simons mentioned in a DRM session at Siggraph that she believed the DVD CSS cipher was deliberately made easy to break, as a similar form of entrapment)
Philips wants five thousand dollars for the Red Book, and requires that you sign an NDA. But if you want to learn the details you can buy the actual international standard, IEC standard 60908, for CHF 226 (about $156).
Other good sources of technical detail about the CD Audio format are:
- The Art of Digital Audio by John Watkinson
- Principles of Digital Audio by Ken Pohlmann
Both of these books provide fairly detailed explanations of the data format, but for the actual physical specifications you have to refer to the standard.