Microsoft Hypes XP Tablets

Dejohn writes "Just got back from the Microsoft Tablet PC launch event here in Seattle. Aside from a couple of application lock-ups during the demonstration (they claimed internet access was down at the demo center and was causing the difficulties), the new technology looks very cool. Microsoft Claimed it 'will recognize all your handwriting unless you can't read it yourself.'" They clearly haven't seen my handwriting. I ran into one of the Motion guys at a Starbucks in Boston and I got to see one of these machines in person and it was quite pretty. No reason you can't run Linux on them from what I saw. Additionally, Dan writes "Sure, CNET's editors got a good look at them and even the mainstream (free registration required) likes this stuff, but didn't South Korea supposedly have these last year, and running Linux at that?"

Comments

Cool.

[Anonymous Coward]

The real question is.. what is the point? What can I do with my Tablet PC that couldn't already be done with PDA, laptop or desktop?

Re:Cool.

[Gogl]

The real answer is these "tablet PCs" probably aren't all that useful to "true geeks", as we're far too keyboard dependent, but could be quite useful to people ranging from graphics artists to grandmothers. There is most definitely a point, even if it's not that useful to us. The original iMac would be quite stupid for a geek to buy as well (unless you stripped it and put LinuxPPC on it or something), but it's definitely useful to grandma.

Re:Cool.

[Anonymous Coward]

Think about it like this. You get a normal laptop complete with keyboard and trackball, but you *also* get a swiveling monitor and a touch screen.

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

You get it at very little extra cost over the price of a comparable laptop.

This isn't some huge technical breakthrough like screen-only tablets (I believe Sonic Blue has one of those POS), it's a logical extension of the laptop, like smaller size or better LCD. It won't revolutionize the way you work, but it may make it a lot easier in certain circumstances.

Re:Cool.

[HughsOnFirst]

I have a Dauphin pen computer that I got in 1994 or so. It ran some microsoft thing called "windows for pens" and it was pretty good with my handwriting which is pretty amazing since my handwriting is so bad that I can't read it myself and haven't written in script since high school.
It seems that bad handwriting can be easier for software to recognize than good handwriting

It ran on a 25mhz cyrix sl486 with 6 meg of memory and a 20 meg hard drive and it worked remarkably well. I wrote my first web site on that, ran Netscape 0.x ...

Try using a laptop while walking. Pen computers are great for that.

Re:Cool.

[Lord_Slepnir]

You can pay microsoft's legal bills with this one

Re:Cool.

[Eccles]

What can I do with my Tablet PC that couldn't already be done with PDA, laptop or desktop?

You can take it to a meeting and put it on your lap (unlike a "laptop") or your off-arm. You can enter data without needing the space for a keyboard. (no click-click either.) Unlike a PDA, you can see reasonably large documents, and use your standard applications. It's like a laptop, only even more portable when you need it to be.

Re:Cool.

[searleb]

Whether I'm in class or at work, I take a lot of my notes by hand. This is primarily because I need to draw tables, write equations, or draw diagrams (I'm a visual learner) for my notes, or when I'm explaining a concept to someone else. One of the things I've always wanted my PDA to do is take text notes (memos) alongside drawings over multiple pages (i.e. a merging of a painting program with a memo program). I want this because I want my notes to be searchable and legible, but also be able to contain tables and hand drawings. The searchable note taking function takes care of half of this- now if only it would automatically transform my crappy handwriting to text so that it's legible. Of course, I'd rather if my PDA just did it because I don't want to lay down 2k to replace my paper note books.

Re:Cool.

[ealar dlanvuli]

I don't know a graphic artist that has like the precision of any previous TabletPC models (yes this isn't the first TabletPC, sorry microsoft), unless they dramatically improved the imput resolution (and pen weight detection) I doubt these will be hits umoung the graphic artists either.

Re:Cool.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's only useful to grandma if grandma can afford it...i.e., costs around $200-300--a magic pricepoint that most mass market consumer electronics try not to break.

I didn't see any prices in the links off of the post, but the reviews hint that they cost around as much as a notebook PC. Probably only "true geeks" would plunk that kind of money down for a machine whose primary purpose is to implement a cool UI for mundane tasks such as word processing and drawing.

Now if the tablet PC could also plug into your TV set and play games, that would be cool (imagine lugging around an Xbox all day as a "tablet PC" ;-). Throw in a 3G cellular wireless link, bluetooth and 802.11b and have it seamlessly operate between home and work by handing off between 802.11 access points and cell towers, and you're really cooking. But I guess that's orthogonal to the table PC concept. But I also guess that a lack of vision in hardware is due to the fact that Microsoft is, after all, a software house, and their goal is to sell as many copies of windows for as much money as possible.

Re:Cool.

[orthogonal]

The real answer is these "tablet PCs" probably aren't all that useful to "true geeks", as we're far too keyboard dependent.

I'm a "true-enough geek" (why am I begging to be labelled with what originated as the description of the carnival freak who bit the heads off live chickens??). Well, I write code anyway.

But I don't type well at all. I do a two finger hunt and peck, and I doubt I'll ever train myself to do better.

But I can scrawl a nearly unreadable scrawl maybe just a bit faster than I can type.

If these tablets really can recognize handwriting, even words not in its dictionary, e.g, "int foo = functionReturningFoo( bar ) ;", it may be just what I want.

Or maybe I just need a Powerglove or a Twiddler or a USB jack in my left temporal lobe.

Re:Cool.

[drinkypoo]

Don't forget the dauphin's super-cool feature, it used a radiolocated pen. Of course so will the tablet PCs. It's too bad that we can't power it the same way wacom does, but the battery in the tablet PCs already doesn't last long enough. The dauphin was ahead of its time, which is why it never really went anywhere. A friend of mine had one, and I wanted one, but I never got one, and this is my sad sad story, boo hoo.

Re:Cool.

[athlon02]

Put a screen protector film thingie on the tablet PC and have an onscreen keyboard. Current PDAs (at least that I know of) don't even offer 640x480. Imagine eventually that you'd have gigs of magnetic RAM (or whatever really fast non-volatile memory takes root in time) for a hard drive and of course this storage space fits in a really small and thin area the size of a compact flash card or so. I personally want tablet PCs to take off, especially if they make it foldable horizontally and vertically so it fits in my cargo pants :)

Re:Cool.

[Pxtl]

As a graphic artist, I could see a very specialized system that would hold my attention - make it giant sized. Basically a 30" tablet to work on - designed to support someone leaning on the screen - so that I can have a digital drawing table.

Yes, it would be expensive, but artists would pay to get a nice mix of teh drawing table and the computer.

Re:Cool.

[User 956]

The real answer is these "tablet PCs" probably aren't all that useful to "true geeks", as we're far too keyboard dependent, but could be quite useful to people ranging from graphics artists to grandmothers.

Which begs the question, why is it when Microsoft announces products like this, is it "hyping" them, but when Apple announces slightly faster laptops (note, nothing actually *new*, just *slightly faster*), they get a front page story written like it came out of the mouth of a PR drone?

Honestly, it seems to me that Slashdot is really trying to pimp itself to Apple. Look at the evidence: How many Apple articles do you see on a daily basis? Why does Apple have its own section, customized to look like Apple's website? Why does Apple have eleven (count them yourself) different topic categories? (Compared to one for Sun, one for Microsoft, one for IBM, one for Compaq, and *none* for Dell, whose market share is nearly six times that of Apple

Re:Cool.

[SerpentMage]

No its not. I already told my wife to hit me over the head if I decide to buy it.

Here is why:

1) It is an underrated notebook. Most have only P3's. Today I finally have desktop replacement notebooks and I get knocked back again with these devices.
2) All in one notebooks with swivel, etc are just asking to be broken. Notebooks are fragile as is, can you imagine how fragile these things are.
3) Tablets are generally complementary devices and not primary devices. Typing is faster than writing and you can type smaller than you can write. Writing requires quite a bit of real estate because you cannot write as crisp as a keyboard.
4) Cost is way too high, for what you get
5) Writing hurts the hands. Originally when Pen Windows came out 92, I talked about how a tablet would change everything. A woman who's husband was an English Professeur said not a chance. Once when he had to goto England to read old texts he had to write out everything by hand. After three hands his hands were incapable of writing. Typing is simply faster.

My point is that tablets will be nice, but as COMPLEMENTARY devices and not primary devices. A smarter move would be to make notebooks bluetooth aware and allow users to write on tablet screen's. Actually I am still dumfounded to this day why we do not buy notebook pieces that are wired together using bluetooth...

Re:Cool.

[dsoltesz]

They do come with keyboards.

This thing would replace my eBook, PDA, and the workstation sitting on a cart by the couch in the living room. What do I get? A tablet to take notes, a eBook to read the latest magazines and Gutenburg downloads, a web browswer that fits comfortably on my lap, a drawing pad to sketch with, a laptop to hack code on, a movie theatre that sits comfortably on those tiny tray tables on the plane, and a portable system that docks to my desktop... it's not about already having a PDA, eBook, and laptop - it about replacing all of these things! Yes, I want a tablet - I've been lusting for a tablet PC for years, and now someone's finally made one!

Re:Cool.

[nelziq]

Well, I write code anyway. But I don't type well at all. I do a two finger hunt and peck, and I doubt I'll ever train myself to do better. Come on man. Mavis beacon teaches typing. Its areally not that hard. A coder that cant type is like a surgeon that "never really got a handle on the whole scalpel thing and probably never will"

Re:Cool.

[Anonvmous Coward]

"My point is that tablets will be nice, but as COMPLEMENTARY devices and not primary devices."

You all are completely missing the point of what makes a Tablet PC interesting, particularly in an office setting.

The form factor alone is very interesting. No more dragging a laptop to the meeting, unfolding it, and hooking your mouse up. Just bring it in, turn it on, and use the stylus. Not to mention that laptops are really not very comfortable to use on your lap. Yet, these same machines can be propped up and have a keyboard attached. You're not losing anything here.

The capability of creating sketches will defintely be useful. Me, personally, I'm an artist and would love to draw directly on the screen. I think my non-artist coworkers would find that useful as well. Right now we use up dry erase markers like crazy. It would be extremely useful if all that stuff was captured digitally.

Right now, corrections to documents are done by printing them out and drawing little circles and things all over them. That's lots of paper. That's lots of losable paper. I hope that the version of Office designed for this PC allows one to make corrections like that. If not, it can't be that far off. My company could drastically cut down its paper usage.

It's easy to break it down like 'laptop with a touchscreen, BFD!', but that's the wrong way of looking at it. It's a laptop with new and interesting capabilities. It's in its infancy right now so it's bound to be a bit underpowered. Give it some time. I bet within a year or two nearly all laptops will have at least a touch screen. Yeah that'd be a really bad thing. /sarcasm

Re:Cool.

[Anonvmous Coward]

"I don't know a graphic artist that has like the precision of any previous TabletPC models (yes this isn't the first TabletPC, sorry microsoft), unless they dramatically improved the imput resolution (and pen weight detection) I doubt these will be hits umoung the graphic artists either."

I figure this is a good time to mention this. Alias|Wavefront (of Maya fame) is working on a 'sketchbook' program for Tablet PC's. It works on regular PC's too. You can check it out here. You can even download a free limited feature version of it as well.

I'm itching to use Photoshop on a TabletPC. Right now, it kinda stinks having to scan every drawing I do. I'd rather draw straight to screen, and in color to boot!

Re:Cool.

[searleb]

jesus, normally my notes are just from lab meetings or when I give presenations. I only take one class a semester to "further" my education. I want stuff searchable and legible, not to fill my brain with every detail of what my boss wants for next month.

Re:Cool.

[searleb]

I need a program that can:
1) accept text anywhere on a page
2) accept tables anywhere on a page
3) draw text/graphs
4) use multiple memo pages sequentially.

The default paint program for my Clie accepts text and drawings, but does not create tables or use pages like a memo pad. Do you know of a program that does at least three of these four?

Re:Cool.

[SerpentMage]

This is why I said notebook, pad of paper and scanner. I do not drag my notebook to various meetings. I drag notebooks of paper. (A previous Program Manager taught me this). And I keep every notebook (paper). This way if I need to look something in the past I just flip through the notebook and find the reference.

I also keep a scanner if I need to have something in my computer (like drawings).

This is mucho cheaper and simpler. So I do get it, but find it pointless. Now about drawing? I understand that as well and prefer the notebook approach! Simpler, Cheaper and keeps longer without the hassle.

Re:Cool.

[Anonvmous Coward]

"This is why I said notebook, pad of paper and scanner. I do not drag my notebook to various meetings. I drag notebooks of paper."

So, in other words, you can do the same thing if you put a lot more effort into it.

Got it!

Re:Cool.

[ClosedSource]

I suspect that hunt and peck guys are less likely to have wrist problems then touch typists. The hunt and peck motion is more natural.

Re:Cool.

[dublin]

I'm a "true-enough geek" (why am I begging to be labelled with what originated as the description of the carnival freak who bit the heads off live chickens??)... But I don't type well at all. I do a two finger hunt and peck, and I doubt I'll ever train myself to do better.

Well, duh... You can hardly expect the chicken to hunt and peck after you've bitten off its head!

been said before

[Satai]

it's been said before, but it bears saying again. i, like many of you, was raised on a keyboard. my data entry skills with a keyboard are much higher than handwriting; in fact, i'd be so bold as to say that's the case with most people of the "computer" generation.

Unless they develop some killer feature (yes yes, in ADDITION to Linux support, these notwithstanding) I've got absolutely no intention of purchasing one. I'll buy a laptop or another desktop -- my PDA is good enough for incidental use, and, conveniently enough, fits in my pocket as opposed to my backpack...

Re:been said before

[batboy78]

Since I started using my computer years ago, my handwriting has gotten steadily worse. Even when labeling CD's I get my wife to do it so it can be read. I'm actually embarassed to write anything. I swear 3rd graders have more legible handwriting then I have. Now I'm sad.

Re:been said before

[LordSah]

I just posted this in the poll's discussion, but it's relevant here as well:

Unlike previous attempts at pen-based computing, MS has actually put work into making the pen work like a real pen, rather than just a mouse. Newtons, Palms, and graphic tablets only use them as mousing devices or rudimentary text input (because those devices lack a keyboard).

The ink on a Tablet is editable--you can insert lines, italicize it, spellcheck it, and use the other end of the pen to erase. All while leaving the ink as ink, and not converting it to plaintext first. It's much less constraining if you're taking notes, brainstorming, or authoring. After you're done doodling, then you convert it to text and publish in your favorite document format.

The ink and the really neat stuff you can do with it took a lot of work, both from MSResearch and from the product development guys. That's the innovation.

I'm a programmer, so the Tablet won't help me much with my regular day-to-day work. I do take notes, go to meetings, and produce my own personal content enough that I'd like to get one though.

I've had the opportunity to play with a Tablet PC on occasion, and they're pretty damn spiffy. I'd get one over a standard laptop like the Dell Perspiron :)

Re:been said before

[zipwow]

I disagree.

Well, I agree that I type much faster than I write, but I frequently wish for more functionality than a PDA.

I'm in a meeting, and I want to look at the design document (in Word, invariably, or a PDF if I'm lucky). Right now, I have to kill a tree.

The idea of carrying all the data in my computer with me to the meeting is pretty exciting. The interface of being able to write on the whole screen looks pretty good.

And it looks like when I get back to my desk, I can lay it down, and use a regular keyboard and mouse.

What's not to like?

-Zipwow

Re:been said before

[marauder404]

So maybe it's not for you. I type at over 100 wpm, too, and I can get data in much faster by typing than by writing by hand. Surely I don't expect to code with one of these things. But I will say this: the keyboard is now an accessory for you. You can take it with you if you want, or you can leave it behind. You can leave a keyboard at both work and at home, and just carry the tablet back and forth, and you can read your mail, doodle, or look at porn while on the bus/train/plane in between home and work. Ever try to get a notebook open on a coach-class seat on a plane while the guy in front of you has reclined his seat? This solves that problem. You're not forced to use the tablet as the only input.

Re:been said before

[ejaw5]

Would you rather hand-write code or type it?

Imagine having to develop software on a keyboardless computer. Don't people realize how long it takes to "write" a parentheses, curly bracket, colon, semi colon, astrick, percent, or cash sign and hope the recognition software identifies them correctly? I have a PDA and it takes special strokes to create even the mundane characters like x and k, even more complex for * and $ and some characters I have to switch to the keyboard palette. (like _ ).

Just now, I tried to enter in the characters listed as they are, and I got an error from slashdot:

Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!

Reason: Please use fewer 'junk' characters.

Re:been said before

[Planesdragon]

Unless they develop some killer feature (yes yes, in ADDITION to Linux support, these [mira2go.com] notwithstanding) I've got absolutely no intention of purchasing one.

My boss still writes out half of her messages in longhand... and as often as not, for causal notes we still use paper around the house or the gaming table.

A tablet PC isn't a replacement for a PDA--it's a grown-up PDA, with enough size and processing power to do all of the neat things that Star Trek PADDs "can" do but PDA's are simply too small for.

I'd love to have a tablet PC, but I'd never write with it. I'd leave it out for causal use--like when looking up a recipie for cooking, making a shopping list, checking the TV listings, or any number of things that a PC (or even a laptop) isn't ideal for.

This isn't any more necessary than a GUI, a mouse, speakers, a DVD drive, a modem, an ethernet card, or a 3D accellerator were when they were debuted. This is a change to the system, and I hope it propogates, as it will make the whole computhing thing get a heck of a lot more common.

The PC has allready replaced the typewriter and the fax machine. A tablet PC can take a pot-shot at the coffee table TV guide or pad of paper.

Re:been said before

[Planesdragon]

(yeah, I know I'm replying to myself)

Having said all of the above...

If Palm came out with a new device with at least a 8 inch x 9 inch usable area and a resolution of at least 640 x 640, I'd pick that up instead of a tablet PC. It's have the same uses, same effect--and the batteries would last for more than fourty-five minutes.

Re:been said before

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Has anyone actually has a look that the photos?
They basicly look like low/mid-end laptops with a swivel screen. I think they're brilliant and might be the next big thing. And after Apple have released handwriting recgonision software. It makes me wonder what they have in mind for their next laptop line-up.

Re:been said before

[sweetooth]

I'd rather have a laptop that I could fold open completly or something. Have a switch to turn the keyboard off and go to feedback from a stylus of some sort. That way I can type on a real keyboard when I want to and browse on a pad when I don't need the keyboard. Of course it would be even better if this device was VERY thin. That's the only way I could see this being at all usefull for me. Any data entry by stylus is going to be horrid for me as I no longer write often enough to have anything be recognizable except maybe my signature. Unless of course I wrote everything really slowly which would be even more annoying than typos from the handwriting recognition software trying to figure out what the hell I just input.

Re:been said before

[marauder404]

I don't want to tell you that this is machine is the one for you and at the risk of being condescending, I feel like you just read the short clips about it here and there but you didn't see the pictures. Honestly, I felt the same way -- I didn't think it was the next big thing at all. But after seeing some pictures and doing a lot of reading, I'm convinced that it's worth a second look. It may not be for me, but I'm definitely going to check it out.

Anyway, I think all of your concerns are already addressed. Take a look at this Compaq Tablet PC. It's 0.8" thick, has a detachable keyboard, weighs 3 lbs (4 lbs with the keyboard), and opens up more or less conventionally. I would like it to be thinner, but that'll come in time if this goes anywhere. It's not the panacea that Microsoft makes it out to be, but I think you'll agree that it's worth a second look. I also hope that the handwriting recognition is fast enough to keep up with me -- I hear that it scans 133 times per second and makes several guesses at what you're trying to write and anticipates. When it misses (something like 5 out of every 10,000), it'll present some options.

Here's a comparison list of Tablet PCs and some specifications. It looks somewhat out of date and incomplete, but it gives you an idea of what will be available soon. I would like to see larger, higher resolution screens, but that, too, will come in time.

Re:been said before

[sweetooth]

That's closer to what I was thinking about. Of course it would have to be thinner, and it would be cool if the keyboard could be folded completly around to the back like a magazine. Then you could browse on the screen very similar to what is here. Maybe have a gyro or two in there to try and determine which direction you are holding the device and flip the screen to match (horizontal vs. vertical) so you could have a widescreen for viewing video and a tall screen for reading text etc. Of course I'm not kidding myself, the device that I really want is some ways off as we don't have the right kind of displays yet, but maybe it won't be too much farther off if devices like this actually take off.

Re:been said before

[Jeff DeMaagd]

There is some stuff where a keyboard isn't efficient for the task for most people. There are a lot of times when I see people wish they could make a quick sketch and email it. It sounds to me like such a tablet would be an answer if this can be done.

As for people being able to type quicker on a keyboard than write, I think that mainly applies for techies and secretaries.

I believe that a portable tablet with docks and attachable/detachable keyboard would be _extremely_ handy.

I've wanted a device like this for a few years now, particularly so I can look at data sheets, drawings and "paperwork" without having to either haul around paper and not have a keyboard constantly in my way.

Re:been said before

[Yankovic]

you can do this with the acer. You rotate the screen 180 degs and fold it back. Boom, tablet only (keyboard off).

Re:been said before

[Jeff DeMaagd]

"of course it would have to be thinner, and it would be cool if the keyboard could be folded completly around to the back like a magazine."

Isn't that a lot like the Compaq version? Well, not quite, as it detaches and attaches to the back, but at least I think the computer would optionally operate as a tablet or optionally operate as a conventional laptop.

Re:been said before

[cmeans]

Certain configurations are good for certain things.

Yes, a real keyboard is a "given" for writing code, but having the option to use the same device in a meeting (rather than just taking my Palm in there) is where I see it being advantageous...plus, with it's voice capabilities, maybe you'd be able to record the meeting while you're taking notes...

There are also times when I'm reading /. or an online manual...just sitting back on the couch to do this is much nicer.

Re:been said before

[sweetooth]

The compaq is very close to that.

Re:been said before

[dublin]

Unless they develop some killer feature (yes yes, in ADDITION to Linux support, these [mira2go.com] notwithstanding) I've got absolutely no intention of purchasing one.

With Cygwin or U/Win (which I prefer because its non-GPL) loaded, who needs Linux? I've found the best of both worlds from a practical point of view is clearly a Windows machine with Unix utilities/extensions.

I reached this conclusion reluctantly (as someone who has seen sleazy MS business practices up close at a major Texas OEM, and as someone with a 17-year Unix bias), but there's really no open source alternative for much of what I need to do. For example: There's nothing even *remotely* like Visio (Kivio, Dia, and the like are light-years from Visio, which I really hated to see MS buy up) on any other platform, and it is an incredibly powerful tool for developing data-driven diagrams and such. There are other examples that aren't so stark, but still show a huge difference between the two worlds, Namo's Web Editor 5 or Macromedia's Dreamweaver vs. *any* open source html/website management package would be one good example, good MCAD software is another.

I am defintely NOT pro-Microsoft, but I've finally come to the conclusion that I only hurt myself by trying to use Solaris, Linux, or BSD as a desktop OS, even though there are things about each of those that I prefer. The simple fact is that MS has had a "real OS" (in the sense that Unix traditionally defined an "OS") since Windows 2000. XP is not an improvement on W2K, but it's really not a bad OS, and with a few of the right additions, either of the newer versions of Windows can be a very nice environment even for those of us that have a strong preference for the way Unix works. (That said, I still run W98 on my primary desktop because I'm too cheap to upgrade. Go figure.)

Bottom Line: This is NOT an either-or battle. It's possible to have your cake, and eat it too. I look forward to adding a Tablet PC to my arsenal of tools that enhance my effectiveness and productivity, although I'll likely wait a year or so to shake out the bugs...

Re:been said before

[dublin]

FWIW, I was one of the preproduction testers for the Diamond/SonicBlue ProGear device linked to at Mira2Go, and I can tell you authoritatively that there are VERY GOOD reasons this machine did not succeed in the marketplace. It was a bold try, but the people involved did not understand Linux, networking, basic usability design, or especially, how to build a portable device rugged enough to be carried around without special padded luggage.

Sadly, it offered a very poor Linux environment designed for browsing only with just barely enough pen interaction (basically, one-button mouse emulation) that it could claim to be a tablet. Pens, tablets, and Linux (or any other Unix-like OS) do NOT mix right now, and I see no development efforts underway that are likely to change that...

Stretching the definition of 'tablet'

[steveadept]

As I read the NYTimes article, and saw that most tablets included keyboards, it became clear once again that Bill Gates isn't really predicting the worldwide takeover of tablet PCs ("Within five years, I predict it will be the most popular form of PC sold in America"), but rather that within five years, most laptops (already on their way to market dominance) will feature detachable screens and a design which allows them to be used in a completely flattened-out manner.

Okay, that's nice. It's good. It'll definitely lead to new applications (read: everything that would work on a PDA if only the screen were larger), but given this level of "innovation," they probably won't be coming from Microsoft.

Re:Stretching the definition of 'tablet'

[ealar dlanvuli]

Considering Jaguire has handwriting support built into the OS (on every version), I don't think it's a large leap to figure out what the next PowerBooks are going to look like :)

Re:Stretching the definition of 'tablet'

[dhovis]

Actually Apple has stated on the record that they don't think that the Tablet PC has any future. The inclusion of Inkwell into MacOS X probably represents a hedge against Tablets becoming popular.

People are using Inkwell to a degree. Many design people use Wacom tablets for everything and switching to the keyboard to enter a small amount of text can be a pain. Those people are using Inkwell now. Almost nobody else is benefiting from it now.

Re:Stretching the definition of 'tablet'

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Actually Apple has stated on the record that they don't think that the Tablet PC has any future.

That depends if by Tablet PC they are refering to a true Tablet PC or not. Like the origonal poster said, most of these new XP Tablets aren't really tablets in the traditional sence, but hybid laptops.

Hype

[batboy78]

When is Microsoft not Hypying one of its products?

Re:Hype

[the_real_tigga]

Well, they did't hype OS/2 a lot, did they.

It is not the hardware it is the software

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you want to run Linux on a tablet PC unless you can get the same level of handwriting recognition. The cool thing in tablet PC is not the operating system, people who wants to use tablet PC do not care how your OS handle swap space. It is the user interface. So can Linux compete in this sense with Windows XP on tablet PC?

No way.

Re:It is not the hardware it is the software

[oPTIKALfIRE]

I was at the same demo at the Maydenbower center...I have to concur with the original post about the "awe factor."

You did fail to mention they used lowsy examples that were very SOFT ROI cases (Using this/and the Share Point server to facilitate a couple of HR employment forms seems to be a bit overkill for the price of this bad boy).

To add to this particular thread, they also mentioned they had over 10 million samples of handwriting that went into the software algorithums. Additionally all of the scribbles are stored as (I believe belzier curves?) which makes it so it doesn't require storing pixel data so the "compression" of the hand writing is excellent. They also showed the ability to "italicize" your own hand writing! / That and highlight it/erase it/insert new whitespace/draw pictures/bold/and the list goes on. If I had this in college I would have done better in all my classes :) - Not to mention the lazy factor to be able and easily get notes from friends ;)

Replacing legal pads might be at long last a reality - borrowing from StarTrek's "pad" design for reading books/analyzing data MS has finally matched the hardware vision and software capabilities to make this switch happen. There's no reason I'd buy a normal laptop again...especially since there are several "swivel" screens which allow you to still have the keyboard/etc for all us geeks, but when your in the meeting swivel the screen and you have your legal pad. Its tough to draw doodles and diagrams easily in your notes w/PDA/laptop...

Additionally, there's no training like most other current hand recognition programs (ACR technology http://www.charactell.com/), or the training found in "speech recognition" like dragon.

Make way, I was extremely impressed, whenever I started to think "maybe they should have..." they pulled out a new demonstration that showed the features...I'm almost surprised but I think MS actually did some planning before they launched this product :)

Re:It is not the hardware it is the software

[IamTheRealMike]

Yes way.

Linux has one thing that is totally ubiquitous and works, where the Windows equivalent is not. It's called X and would work wonders for this kind of thing [*]

Let's say you have a wireless network, and your "computer" is really simply a thin client that is driven remotely via X from a "desktop server". There are lots of compelling reasons for this setup anyway in corporate networks, but it's ideally suited for tablet PCs.

Imagine on your desk there are two towers, which hold a detachable flat panel. This panel really is flat too, and light. It contains only the display circuitry and a small, low powered chip with some software in flash ROM. These things exist today in the form of the PDA but I'm imagining tablet size here. The tablet/panel runs only a miniture X server. When docked to your thin client on your desk, the X server detects that there's also a keyboard near by and uses that. When there is no keyboard, it starts relaying pen messages to the desktop server and back comes your handwriting. Because you're not lugging around an actual computer, they can be fast, light, small and have long battery life. Because all your doing is moving X displays around, you've still got access to all your applications, all your documents just as if you were at your desk.

What's more, with some smart use of xmove, you can "throw" applications to another tablet. If you're running say a mapping application (or any specialist) and want to take it to a meeting, you just detach the screen and walk down the corridor. When there, you can share the app with others so they too can draw on it, or you can throw it over the the projector etc.

And yes, X can deal with pen input very nicely, it's then just a case of hooking up some good handwriting recognition to it on the server side. I think that'd be too cool.

[*]: Yes, I know windows has terminal services, but that works in a different way iirc and isn't as efficient bandwidth wise. Also some apps have difficulty with it and you I don't think stuff like OpenGL works too well. Anyway, my point stands. It can compete at any rate.

Re:It is not the hardware it is the software

[IamTheRealMike]

What a poor troll, sorry, I've seen much better.

You are defining ubiquitous how?

Ubiquitous within Linux, what did you think? I'm assuming a Linux based network.

Oh, and when will X get audio support? I can play back movies with sound through Terminal Server, even over my DSL. So maybe I don't have as great an experience with D3D via TS, but I've never been able to play Quake over X over DSL on X.

Huh? You're confused. X is a graphics protocol, audio is outside its remit. If you want network transparent audio you can setup aRts or eSound. It'd be nice to have it integrated with the DISPLAY variable or something, but that's pretty trivial to do.

As for Quake, I have no idea how you managed to play a fullscreen 3D game over terminal services (which is based on compressed bitmaps) on DSL, it must have been a very low latency line. You can play games over X though, I do know that, as it sends the opengl calls themselves through the connection.

On a related note, where are all those great applications for X on Linux? Things like Adobe Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro or Avid or Finale or IE. Can you name me one app for Linux that doesn't have a port or equivalent on Windows?

Tip: when trolling, don't pick bad examples. Adobe Photoshop/PSP = The gimp. Yes, that exists on Windows too, because somebody ported it. That's software freedom working for you. IE = Mozilla. Avid?? dunno what that is, ditto for Finale. There are almost certainly equivalents for joe-level apps, if there are specialists things you need you can use Wine. How did we get onto this anyway, is this just some kind of general anti-linux rant? I was talking about applying X to tablet pcs.

Your thumbnails example is a terrible one. You're Linux geek friend was probably in the middle of doing something wierd to his machine, if I wanted to view a CD of images (i'm assuming they're in a standard format, not one MS pulled out of its ass) then I just put the CD in the drive and Nautilus or Konquerer will open and compile thumbnails for me. I know from experience they do this very quickly indeed. Maybe your friend eschews the easy way or something, I dunno.

I really have to laugh at anyone who thinks they can be better than MS at integrating technologies around Linux and competing on the Tablet platform before Microsoft eats it all.

Laugh then. We'll laugh last, guaranteed. This is such a pathetic pro-MS rant it's untrue. Why am I bothering to reply? Oh, I know, it's raining and I don't want to get wet by going home just yet.

If Microsoft has never, ever let you down then by definition you are new to the computing scene. Having friends who can get you cheap copies of Windows is pathetic, and that last comment is ludicrous - I got redhat for free! And I didn't break the law or call favours. It's more stable than Windows, virus free, lots of good support etc etc etc.

Jesus. I give up. I hope you weren't serious, if so then you should really do some investigations instead of trolling slashdot, you might learn something.

Re:It is not the hardware it is the software

[bmajik]

nice bit of bullshit there at the end.

RDP ("remote desktop protocol" - windows terminal services) is significantly more bandwidth-efficient than both X protocol and VNC.

Do this comparison - run an xterm remotely over a 28.8 PPP link. Now run it again through ssh -C (ssh with compression) over the exact same link. See how much faster that is ? Doesn't that tell you something when an unoptimized stream cipher can significantly cut the cruft out of X protocol in real time while not impacting latency ?

OpenGL doesn't necessarily work well over X, either, as the xserver has to have the right OGL extension with the right openGL extensions. And thats only if you're using a well behaved OGL app. Nobody can remotely use the old SGI apps that used the dgl protocol.

How do you do 2-button mice?

[EccentricAnomaly]

I have a few questions for anyone out there with access to one of these machines...

1. How do these tablet PCs recognized input from the stylus... do they have a touch screen?

2. Is the Tablet PC handwriting recognition better than OS X's inkwell?

3. How do you 'right-click' with the stylus? Is it something like control-click on the macs? Is there anything like a scroll wheel?

Thanks for helping out my curiosity.

Re:How do you do 2-button mice?

[rogueuk]

check out the ny times article that's linked

they respond to the magnetic tip in the stylus so it only responds to that, not your arm resting on it or anything

handwriting recognition isn't perfect..but then again, i doubt it ever will be

there's a right-click button on the stylus which, from the ny times article, looks like it's placed in an incredibly stupid place..right where you grip the stylus

Re:How do you do 2-button mice?

[marauder404]

I don't have access to one, but this is what I understand ...

How do these tablet PCs recognized input from the stylus... do they have a touch screen?

The screen is touch sensitive, yes, but only senses proximity and contact from the stylus, which is electromagnetic. This means you can rest your hand on the screen as you write, as you do with a regular piece of paper. This is different from "stabbing" or "scratching" with a stylus on conventional PDAs. It also senses proximity, which means you can navigate through menus by hovering over the screen and not touching it.

Is the Tablet PC handwriting recognition better than OS X's inkwell?

I hear it's an excellent system. Whether or not it's better, I don't know, but it is considered by many to be the best system yet. It recognizes handwriting anywhere on the screen going in any direction.

How do you 'right-click' with the stylus? Is it something like control-click on the macs? Is there anything like a scroll wheel?

The stylus has two buttons that can be programmed, one of which would presumably be a right-click.

Re:How do you do 2-button mice?

[EccentricAnomaly]

The stylus has two buttons that can be programmed, one of which would presumably be a right-click.

Does this mean the stylus has a battery? Is there some sort of RF signal from the stylus to the machine telling if a button is pressed... or is this done clevely just with magnets?

Also, I assume the stylus only works with a tablet pc or a special monitor... is that right?

Re:How do you do 2-button mice?

[Keith Russell]

there's a right-click button on the stylus which, from the ny times article, looks like it's placed in an incredibly stupid place..right where you grip the stylus

Don't knock it until you try it. Unless you have a really ham-fisted grip on the stylus, the button placement is quite natural. I use a Wacom Graphire 2 tablet here at home. It has a rocker switch that defaults to down for right-click and up for double-click. It's positioned perfectly under the thumb or index finger. I prefer the the thumb, myself. It's easier to press up for the double-clicks.

Goddammit...

[MoThugz]

I thought the tablets were something of the medical type... to cure you from XPlitis from using the PC at work!

Imagine my disappointment when it turns out to be quite the opposite. More exposure to XPlitis infested equipment!

only if your standing

[asv108]

I could see using a tablet for specialized applications, where you would be standing while using the machine, but besides that, this tablet hype will die down real quickly even if the technology is only in its infancy. Tablets will never replace laptops for most users, because the keyboard is much more effeciant than handwriting.

Walt Mossberg had a good article about tablets in journal this morning. Personally, I think that in five years we will be laughing about "tablet hype" much in the same manner that we laugh about "thin-clients" and "push technology" today. I'm still waiting for the day when everyone uses word processors through the browser.

Re:only if your standing

[marauder404]

You're assuming that you *have* to use the tablet to enter in data. The keyboard isn't eliminated. It's just an accessory now. You don't have to drag it around with you if you don't want to, but when you get home, you just plug in your keyboard and mouse and you're ready to go. I see little downside to getting a Tablet PC other than added cost, which will probably go down -- the market will decide by how much.

Re:only if your standing

[marauder404]

Yes, that's definitely the dream -- to use Bluetooth to wirelessly plug into your keyboard, mouse, and even speakers. Most of them come with 802.11b, too. Bluetooth adoption has been slow so far, so I'm not hoping too much for that right now.

I feel the same way ... moderately skeptical, but interested in doing my research and making an informed decision rather than a lot of these impulse reactions that it *must* be bad. Jokes are fine, but ignorance is showing through more often than not.

Handwirting recgnition

[Lodro]

"Microsoft Claimed it 'will recognize all your handwriting unless you can't read it yourself."

Well, then I'm screwed...

Re:Handwirting recgnition

[newr00tic]

"Microsoft Claimed it 'will recognize all your handwriting unless you can't read it yourself."

I'm blind, you insensitive clods!

2 questions

[nuckin futs]

how hot does it get and what kind of battery life can I expect?

Duh

[MyHair]

Microsoft Hypes XP Tablets

In other news, GM hypes cars. . . .

Hardware

[FatRatBastard]

One of the benefits of MS's development methodology ("we're a software company") allows them to branch out in this direction a little more easier than Apple -- of whom a lot of people have been asking if something similar is in the works due to Ink, etc. Essentially MS has shunted off the hardware cost to the likes of HP and only have to worry about the software, and they've leveraged XP for most of the software as far as I can tell.

The downside of this strategy, though, is that if the hardware folks don't see a viable market MS is going to be left with software that doesn't have a platform to run on (see Sendo and the Windows Phone). Even by Gates admission he doesn't see tablets hitting the mainstream for 5 years which makes me wonder if / how long the likes of HP will push the platform. Tablets ain't cheap, and other than geek reasons I still don't see them taking off any time soon, even in the general business sector. Batteries are going to have to last all day, weight will have to drop and durability will have increase before they become really, really usefull.

Microsoft eats Apple's cake

[didiken]

Well pen computers are common... look at Apple Newton. The original Newton 100 to 120 didn't do it right, but Apple did the right thing for Newton 2000 and 2100, sad that Steve Jobs killed it. Check Wired : Apple's Newton Just won't Drop. Also the Go pen computing operating system. Both Go and Apple suffered the "first mover disadvantage". Too early. Hand recognitions were crappy for early models.

Now let's not worry about how evil is Microsoft first. Really the reason I use a computer because I write crappy stuff and want to express my idea QUICK. I bet many people can type more than 50 words per minute. Try do that with that Tablet PC. Yea that's why the Danger PDA and the Treo comes back with the keyboard. Also if you notice from Microsoft's propaganda, other than their classic "editorial", you should be able to see that Microsoft wants people to write more of their idea in their handwritten form... okay... taking all my notes electronically, is it easier if I bring a smaller Wacom tablet with a small Sony VAIO or my beloved Powerbook ? This way I can draw and type productively. (Yea Apple adopted Newton's handwritten technology into Inkwell also)

Also, now get to the price of a $1000 to $2500 USD for one of this table, for its handwritten purposes, I might get a yellow pad papers at OfficeMax for $5 USD, still serve me well.

Also I wonder if I lose of the table PC, then I've ruin the rest of my day with it. I did that many times with my Palm.

I'd rather bet on the OQO more. Yea some of the employees are ex-Apple, somebody correct me if I'm wrong

Emily Litella's take.

[CatWrangler]

Emily Litella:I heard that Microsoft is hyping ectacy tabs. Now, you know that is immoral, evil, and rotten. The government should arrest them all.

Chevy Chase: Emily, they are hyping XP tablets, not ecstasy tabs.

Emily Litella: I stand by my statement.

bigger screen than PDA

[commodoresloat]

And more memory. More convenient to carry around than a laptop. Touchscreen interface. Come on, you know why these will be great.... you can take your pr0n anywhere!! And as a bonus, just wait for interactive DVD's that really make use of that touchscreen....

Cool -- is it enough?

[Qrlx]

You can run an app in 1024x768. You can run Word and Outlook. You can play Counterstrike and aim/shoot by tapping the stylus on the screen.

Not sure why you'd want to do that (except for the Counterstrike thing, that would be cool.)

The killer app of the tablet pc is supposed to be the "ink" technology that reads your handwritings. The reviews I've read say functionality is mixed...kinda like early voice recognition I guess. Alas I think ink is not as cool as MS does, because who doesn't know graffiti by this point? Or who can't learn graffiti in like thirty minutes? And typing is still way faster than handwriting and requires a lot less cpu...

People who handwrite stuff for a living are reluctant to actually start using a computer. They think it's beneath them (doctors at least feel this way -- to them it's data entry. ewwww.) Also the way business processes have been put together, there's a person whose job it is to take handwritten stuff and convert it to computer text, clean it up and so on. THis devie would force a paradigm shift, and ink isn't probably a compelling enough reason to change.

Being able to rotate the display from landscape to portrait, to set up the device as just a display which is secretly a fully functional computer, all that sounds pretty cool to me. Maybe it will impress clients if your sales team shows up with tablet PCs -- kinda like the receptionist always has a flat panel display. I could see browsing the web as more "fun" on a tablet, but making this slashdot post would kinda suck. (My handwriting is atrocious, by the way. But I also know how to type 40wpm.)

When tablet PCs didn't cathc on five years ago (warning: these thoughts are ripped from the article in WIndows .NET mag a few months back) they supposedly didn't catch on because they were like twice the cost of regular laptops. MS is hoping that vendors can make Tablet PCs cost competitive with (high-end) laptops, and thus at least one barrier to entry will be gone.

Recognizing handwriting

[andkaha]

Microsoft Claimed it 'will recognize all your handwriting unless you can't read it yourself.'

<joke>

That's easy; take your handwritten notes and open up notepad (or maybe Emacs or Vi), then proceed to type your handwritten notes into the editor. The editor will recognize all your handwriting unless you can't read it yourself.

</joke>

Next-gen paper

[mcelrath]

These WILL NOT succeed until they are as easy to use and as convenient as paper. Numerous companies have tried to produce what is essentially a laptop with a pen attached, and failed miserably. Most applications are horrid to use with a pen. It will require a handful of revolutionary applications to make these things fly.

Think: replace PAPER, not nifty-new-gadget. I want to download my textbook in PDF format, and annotate it. I want to take notes in class (including math and drawings) and then organize them the way I do files on my computer. But if I have to spend a lot of time clicking and tapping to input my notes, it will fail. It has to be as easy as, or easier than paper. It's hard enough to both listen to the lecturer and transcribe the blackboard, without having to deal with the input mechanism not doing what you want it to...

Oh, and 3 hours of battery life? Forget it. That won't get me though one day's worth of classes.

-- Bob

Re:Next-gen paper

[spectecjr]

These WILL NOT succeed until they are as easy to use and as convenient as paper. Numerous companies have tried to produce what is essentially a laptop with a pen attached, and failed miserably. Most applications are horrid to use with a pen. It will require a handful of revolutionary applications to make these things fly.
Think: replace PAPER, not nifty-new-gadget. I want to download my textbook in PDF format, and annotate it. I want to take notes in class (including math and drawings) and then organize them the way I do files on my computer. But if I have to spend a lot of time clicking and tapping to input my notes, it will fail. It has to be as easy as, or easier than paper. It's hard enough to both listen to the lecturer and transcribe the blackboard, without having to deal with the input mechanism not doing what you want it to...


Textbooks:
Step 1. Install Microsoft Reader.
Step 2. Download Textbook. (Requires your textbook to be in an e-book format).
Step 3. Open it, and annotate it onscreen using the pen, as if it were a real book.

Happy?

Why not go to the website - www.tabletpc.com - and actually look at some of the screenshots of their apps. You can even make *your own handwriting* bold, or italic, if you really want to.

Simon

Re:Next-gen paper

[mcelrath]

To view these demos, you need Microsoft Internet Explorer (version 5.0 or higher) and the Macromedia Flash Player (version 6.0). For an optimal viewing experience, use a high-speed Internet connection, and set your screen resolution to 800 × 600 or higher.

Awww, fuck it. It just pops up a blank window. Go microsoft.

--Bob

Re:Next-gen paper

[seigniory]

Your signature is terrible and not "clever". The order of operations rules state that nested powers be done first, which means that sqrt(-1*-1) is 1, not -1.

Try again, please.

Re:Next-gen paper

[seigniory]

and how do you make the jump from 1=-1 to 1=0? That's just stupid.

Beer is good. More beer is better.

Feel free to use THAT as your signature, ya wanna-be /. karma stud.

Re:Next-gen paper

[tswinzig]

These WILL NOT succeed until they are as easy to use and as convenient as paper. Numerous companies have tried to produce what is essentially a laptop with a pen attached, and failed miserably.

OK, but these things aren't just laptops with pens attached. These things have the most popular operating system on them, tweaked specifically for pen-based input, these things have a new version of Office that integrates with the pen-based computing, and these things (by most accounts) have very good handwriting recognition.

Re:Next-gen paper

[seigniory]

And those who can understand it probably shouldn't

How I'd use a Table PC

[tavon79]

As a student, I been trying to figure out how to effectively take notes in class. Considering the fact that I type 10 times faster than I can write with a pen, using a computer in class only seems logical. However, the problem comes when you have classes that requires the student to input/draw graphs, math equations and non-ascii characters. Classes like philosophy and english are great for plain-ol notebooks, but classes like economics and math/engineering related is just too hard without some kind of pen-input system. I'd like a system where I don't have some things in my notebook but some in loose-paper form. I hate carrying binders around...

So far, I've thought of a WikiWiki system that easily indexes and connects documents with some sort of applet that would allow for easy pen-input which would embed/insert the graphic within the Wiki page.

Tablet PC's allow the perfect medium of both worlds. Now I can take notes then doodle graphs/equations as I go and I have the perfect note-taking system. It's like the IBM-Notepad laptop but better. I don't have to buy a graphire pen-tablet either.

What do you think? I'd like to hear what other slashdotters think about my idea...

Re:only if you're standing

[zipwow]

Did you look at the site? You use the tablet at your meeting, you return to your desk and dock it (sideways) and use it as your monitor as you go about your business with keyboard and mouse.

Its like carrying your computer with you to your meetings. Better than a laptop, because you don't have to have table space to set it on, and you don't appear to be hiding behind it. And, hopefully, it weighs less.

It seems like the most natural interface. While you're out, you write on it like a notepad. You get back, and you type with your keyboard. How's that better than a yellow legal pad? I can pull up the design document on the arcane subject we wandered into on my tablet. Everyone else is stuck with what they printed out to bring along.

I think it would be a good thing, even if the handwriting recognition is lousy. Which, of course, they claim it isn't. Who knows, on that account?

-Zipwow

Handwriting is becoming obsolete

[eyefish]

Most people who spend a couple of years at the computer quickly realize a few things about keyboard-based text-entry:

1. It is faster than handwriting.

2. Other people can understand what you type.

3. It is easier on foreigners who use other forms of writing (like Chinese, Korean, Japanese, or Arabic languages), in other words it is a better way to communicate in an increasingly global society.

I consider Tablet PCs a step back in the communications department. Does it have good points? yes, like the ability to draw doodles, figures, and graphs easily (that is still faster today to do it by hand than by computer commands, but only for simple graphs). My guess is that Microsoft engaged on such a proyect solely because "the man" Bill Gates transformed it into his pet project. On a small side note, if there really wanted this thing to succeed at some level I'd have done the following:

1. Focus on vertical industries only, in areas and industries where this type of devices are commonly used.

2. Develop technology to extend battery life to at least a full working day (say, 10 hours), since these devices are *supposed* to be carried arround all day, that's the point; what good would it be to have it docked recharging every 2 hours for 3 hours? for that case simply buy a laptop.

Finally, like many have commented on the net, this seems to be a breed taking everything a PDA and a Laptop does, but not taking into account the benefits of each (portability, simplicity, and battery life).

Botton line: pass this one on, and instead buy yourself a superslim notebook and a PDA-Phone like a Handspring Treo. You'll even have money left to buy some accessories.

Re:Handwriting is becoming obsolete

[marauder404]

1. For some reason, you think that there's no more keyboard. The truth is that you can now use a keyboard if you want to, but you don't have to. When you're on a plane, you don't want a keyboard to read your mail. You just want a screen. So the value isn't in doodles -- it's in portability.
2. The system definitely attracts business types more than code monkeys, but I travel a lot, and if I can carry a keyboard with my Tablet PC for no additional weight penalty than I have now, why wouldn't I just get a Tablet PC?
3. Battery life depends on manufacturer, but is usually comparable to current notebooks. One manufacturer is even claiming 10-16 hours.
4. Tablet PC's are expected to be very popular in Asia due to their ability to read different languages very well. Chinese, for example, has many complex characters that are hard to type. Because of each character's shape and stroke order is very specific, it's actually very easy for handwriting recognition to be very accurate in Asia, relatively speaking
5. Don't knock it till you've tried it. I'm still somewhat skeptical, but I took some time to research it and hope to use one soon.

Re:Handwriting is becoming obsolete

[harvardian]

Focus on vertical industries only, in areas and industries where this type of devices are commonly used.

While Microsoft is hyping the technology globally, they are marketing primarily to "knowledge workers" right now, as you suggest. The thinking is that people who go to meetings all day have a very good use for doodling rather than typing. (see this word doc (I know) for yourself)

Re:Handwriting is becoming obsolete

[Frank of Earth]

2. Other people can understand what you type.

Man, the worst is when you have to sign your name on some document and you spell it wrong cause the last time you actually used a pen was in HS.

I think I might start carrying a stamp with my signature...

Re:Handwriting is becoming obsolete

[MidnightBrewer]

If you're actually trying to input Japanese, which I do on a daily basis, then you realize that handwriting recognition can be a real blessing.

Many of the basic 2,048 Japanese "kanji" (Chinese characters) share pronunciation with other kanji, which means I can often be faced with a list of 167 possible matches. This is time-consuming when I know exactly which character I want and the computer doesn't.

When it comes time to look up an unknown kanji, handwriting recognition is also a major blessing; instead of trying to hunt down the kanji in an obscure index system or sort it out by component pieces, you can simply draw it in the interface, let the computer recognize it, and viola! you have a match much faster than painstakingly scanning through fifty candidates.

Keyboards are alphabet-centric. Not everybody finds that the best or only way to do business.

Possible Cool Uses

[EccentricAnomaly]

I can't wait until someone writes a unicode handwriting recognition tool that lets me input greek letters and funky math symbols and also lets me input equations... And then imagine interfacing all of that with something like mathematica :)

Oh and it would be cool to draw a rough sketch and have the software automatically clean it up into a nice publication-quality diagram.

Sure I can do this stuff now with latex and canvas... but a tablet computer would make this so much easier... and more fun :)

I'm sure there would be use in non-technical stuff too... how about networking these things to a white board during a meeting or teleconference where everyone can draw on the same white board? Or what about drawing charts and diagrams for reports?

Also drawing could be a form of data input. Say for playing starcraft and drawing out a path for a unit. ...and if you like mouse gestures, you could do even more with a stylus, right?

Whenever these things take off, I'm sure there will be all sorts of cool new applications for them... I'm just not sure if they'll take off just yet.

Re:Possible Cool Uses

[inkey string]

just have to rep for a bit of uwaterloo controversy here...

every unix geek is rebelling at the possibility of a ms prescence on campus, but the one thing that made me think of this when i read your comment was the following.

"A new team of UW researchers intend to collaborate to develop a pen-based mathematics manipulation interface engine to enable Microsoft's Tablet PC to enter, manipulate, and interact with complex formulae."

this is quoted from the above link which was intended to clarify exactly what the ms funding would entail... everyone's up in arms, and the debate isnt over yet.

Re:Possible Cool Uses

[RichMan]

LaTeX still rocks for complex formula entry

\sum_{i=1}^{n} x^i y^{n-i}

No mouse movement. No special shift/ctrl stuff. Very readable. No worrying about how it looks.

Running Linux on them

[DunbarTheInept]

The head article said "No reason you can't run Linux on them" - well I can think of one really big one. The driver to understand the handwriting is going to be in software, and would need to be reimplemented from the ground up if you stick a different OS on it.
I can't imagine that being a trivial task.

Re:Running Linux on them

[fliplap]

there's already handwriting recognition software for linux. Checkout the iPaq linux page at www.handhelds.org

Its more hardware that I'd be concerned with seeing as how these use a funky magnetic stylus.

When is this useful?

[siskbc]

Not trying to troll, but when is it useful to save scribbles? Usually, I scribble on a napkin or whatever, but this isn't all too coherent. It's usually only useful to me when I make it a bit more coherent, and usually typed. How long do people keep srcribbles? It doesn't seem like it begs for being stored any longer than it takes me to lose it.

At what point am I going to look for something I scribbled 2 years ago?

I only see this useful for people who t y p e r e a l l y s l o w . . ...

Re:When is this useful?

[DuSTman31]

I can think of quite a few situations where saving "scribbles" would be helpful. The main thing which causes people not to use word processing apps in more situations is primarily the speed hit as soon as any formatting is required. Sure, I might be able to type a lot faster than I write, but as soon as any formatting is required, the "pen-on-paper" scheme of just moving your hand to where you want the text to go is a lot faster and more elegant than the best of WP interfaces. Then there's other types of annotations - I can't really envisage taking a laptop to lectures for notetaking because as soon as the professor puts up any kind of diagram I'd have my work cut out opening a paint package, using a trackpoint to copy it down and importing it into my "notes" document before he moves to the next slide. Supporting a new type of data - for an equation or shorthand text would require plugins to be written for the word processor to support that type of information, but you can notate anything as scribbles with much less fuss.

Re:When is this useful?

[zapfie]

I only see this useful for people who t y p e r e a l l y s l o w . . ...

You just described 95% of the population.

Re:When is this useful?

[k_187]

I only see this useful for people who t y p e r e a l l y s l o w . . ...

Well, I've been looking for a way to organize my class notes for awhile now. I'd love something like this. I can take it to class, make my scribbles which then get changed into semi-orderly notes, bring them back to my room and file them away on the HD. no more carrying about all the notebooks, its searchable and organized, and I'll be able to read it when I've forgotten what it was I meant to say.

Re:When is this useful?

[quintessent]

Do you ever scribble anything besides text? Say, diagrams, pictures, markings on your text? These are kinda hard to do with a keyboard. Ok, you have your mouse. But wouldn't a pen and paper interface be nice?

Re:When is this useful?

[swv3752]

As opposed to just typing your notes in a notebook? Or jotting down in a PDA. You can pick up a decent Black & White model for $100-$125. I fail to see the advantage of a slow expensive notebook that you can write on the screen.

I see this as just further dumbing down the audience that uses computers. We already have most computer owners not knowing how to backup thier files. They don't understand the difference of single and double clicking, let alone right clicking. Now we want them to understand when they can write on the screen and when they can the stylus as a mouse? This is just one of the reasons this will flop.

Re:When is this useful?

[swv3752]

Between most of my college professors giving the entire outline of thier class and a blessedly good memory, I have never needed to jot down more than the highlights. I just need something to jog my memory later.

A little practise with graffitti or whatever the handwiting recognition is called and it is no worse than scribbling notes on paper- and far more readable. I personally have an Agenda, and most of the strokes are the same as the Palm. It is not hard if you use for more than a few minutes a week.

Besides unless the tablet had handwriting recognition like the palm, would you really want to go back and try reading some bitmap image of your scrawl? I sure don't want to do it with mine. And I have tried with similiar things on my Agenda.

You can't make them go with linux

[child_of_mercy]

they won't run with linux because they rely on handwriting recognition tog et the most out of them.

Which is the sort of high price, patent encumbered research (a bit like OCR) which open source struggles with.

And don't go thinking this is coincidental with MS's love of the platform.

This is more interesting

[Reality Master 101]

My vision for something like this is a small, thin unit maybe 1/2" thick that I can toss around the living room and grab when I want to do some surfing. Wireless, long battery life, etc.

To this end, I find this other product that Microsoft is developing more interesting: the Smart Display.

Microsoft hasn't been hyping it as much, presumably to avoid confusion with the Tablet PC, but in a nutshell it's a remote display that connects "PCAnywhere-style" to your desktop computer. This seems WAY closer to my vision of a "toss anywhere" remote computer.

It should be a lot cheaper, too, along with better battery life. I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing how these units shake out.

Re:This is more interesting

[jonr]

Oh, you mean it is like an X terminal?
(Sorry, just had to)

Re:OSX...

[commodoresloat]

I know of a ibook-turned-tablet

Got any details?

.... "but can it run Linux"

[Anonymous Coward]

Typical Slashdot story:

[Insert Company Here] recently released their much-hyped new [Insert Product Here.]

[Insert Mainstream magazine here] praises the new device, while [Insert newspaper writer here] also had great things to say about it.

[Insert Slashdot editor here] asks "But Can it run Linux?"

Tere's nothing more fun then taking your $2000 Tablet PC with multimedia features and making a cursor blink next to:
bash$

Nevermind it won't do anything more. But don't dismay, it runs Linux after all!

Possted thes ywith nmy hTavblet peZ

[eyefish]

TThhies etss whyat's whrr0ng wWigth tthe thcabblE Pc, eiit's

[dead battery]

But..

[Anonymous Coward]

does it run OS X?

It's not enough to just "Run Linux"

[rgm3]

It's not enough to just run linux on it. The tablet actually has to be useful.

These things come with Windows XP Tablet edition, which has built in handwriting recognition software and special software tailor-made for the touch screen input. How much mature open source software is available for linux to make this worthwhile? Can you flip and rotate the screen on the fly with it? How easy is it to use and how well integrated is it with Xfree? Sure, some of the Zaurus apps could be ported... but point is, XP Tablet edition Works. As well as many other micro$oft products anyway, and to an end user, that's more than Good Enough.

Just be wary of knee-jerk reactions to MS, that's all.

It fills those gaps in user interface

[MrChuck]

Where is this useful?
all those places where laptops and pda's don't work well, work for a tablet.

Now granted, it's Microsoft, so it's not innovative. The Xerox PARC pads 'n Tabs was sort of the Platonic ideal. Sun's been the only folks to come out with workable computing where your session follows you (really your smart card) from screen to screen.

But getting the hardware out is a step. And yeah, wait 20 minutes for KDE, GNome, Linux and NetBSD to be running on it better than MS.

So uses? Warehouses, any place live inventory management happens. Any place a clipboard is in use. Very useful to the blue collar/labor people where a PDA is useful mostly to white collar/office people.

The Newton was too small for much of that and my Zaurus certainly is. A large screen, lightweight tablet has been a missing part of the lineup for a long time. My laptop is WAY too bulky and using a keyboard when you're walking around is impossible.

Re:It fills those gaps in user interface

[MrChuck]

No, using a friend's company as an example:
They have 20 or so guys out there in the warehouse with clipboards showing where stuff is and marking down what's being taken out and brought in. They tell the forklift guys where to go.

At this point, every couple hours (AM break, milk and cookies :), lunch, PM break, quitting time), they drop the board back in the office where about 7 clerical people take them and do data entry. These people also do printouts of what's the current situation and put those in clipboards for these guys to take out when the break is over. It's usually one phase out of sync, except for the first morning crew at 7:00AM.
Now lets make those clipboards smart. Let's shove WiFi or Bluetooth into them, lets make them the PARC Tabs.

Now there are 1-2 clerks, just dealing with the machines and checking that what was ordered actually came it and following it up.
5 salaries at ~ $24k each per year, times 3 years depreciation pays for a lot of tablets and someone two write the software interfaces.

They clearly save money (most important). They reduce staff (not a priority from history); they have more accurate information - floor guys can start moving out what might have come in 25 minutes ago if they are running tight inventory.

Now we have opportunities: When something that's scheduled to go out on an 11AM truck comes in at 9, they can put it over by the outgoing truck's bay and not bother to rack them.

One of the current gripes from all sides is that when 400 cases of an item comes in, they stack em and rack them into the shelves. If 50 of those are going out in an hour, why did they just waste the time finding a place for it and leaving it on the other side of the warehouse? Oh, and Foreman Jimmy doesn't know where they are cause Foreman Hector just got them in and that info is on his clipboard and only there.

--

In summary, this is an area where computers haven't penetrated well - smaller businesses doing blue collar work. The tools haven't existed.

MS and the PC makers are dying cause of market saturation. Many of the people who are going to BUY PCs have - there's not a big market Joe Sixpack doesn't really NEED to upgrade his Pentium 300 to a 2GHz, especially during a recession.

In your work, maybe they don't equip the workers with the tools they need to most effectively do their jobs, but this is a factor of larger white collar businesses.

In the real world of shipping and manufacturing, yeah, the boss might be running a new PC. He might have a PDA but it's seen as a lower priority in the real world still. (only in the spoiled bubble companies does someone actually threaten to quit when they won't buy him a PDA)

The line guys do get a 2 million dollar machine that runs those metal straps to fix the cargo to pallets. They will get electronic clipboards. It can directly help productivity. That makes partners and shareholders happy. Perhaps as a bonus, the folks who make it happen will get a shiny new PDA.

Could be useful for taking notes

[RelliK]

Like most other people, I can type faster than I can write. However, these things would be great for taking notes in class: use the keyboard to type; use the stylus to draw. It wouldn't work with a regular laptop very well: I draw bad enough with a pen; I certainly can't do it with a mouse. Also, there is no easy & fast way to type formulas and some funky math symbols, so tablet & stylus could be a step forward -- provided that it works as advertised, of course. What are your thoughts?

Re:Could be useful for taking notes

[RelliK]

Well, I just graduated, but I can tell you that in nearly all of my classes I would see 1-2 people taking notes with laptops or PDAs. I expect more of that with the advent of tablet PCs.

DVORAK

[Flamesplash]

1. It is faster than handwriting.

Now only if we could get people to use Dvorak layouts, then they could be faster than faster than handwriting.

it will never fly

[erikdotla]

Pop quiz: What's the difference between Microsoft's future XP tablets and their existing Pocket PCs, aside from more horsepower you don't need and larger screens, which you also don't need?

Answer: Nothing.

Pop quiz: How much market share did Palm lose when Pocket PCs were introduced?

Answer: Not much.

Palms are very focused little devices, and Pocket PCs are overkill, tablets more so. You don't need PC power to do what a Palm is good at, even including basic handwriting recognition. Microsoft as usual is throwing bloat at a solved problem.

Give me a tiny, rollable (like saran wrap) keyboard (or even better - a projected holographic keyboard that I poke at in the air) and a very small PC (Vaio) and I'm rockin'.

Besides, my PC lifestyle has utterly ruined my handwriting skills anyway. I can't remember the last time I picked up a pen to write much more than my signature.

I learned years ago that it's faster to jot a number into a text file than it is to write it on a post-it note stuck to my monitor. Thus I laugh at all the post-it usage I see, when someone can just echo 000-111-2222 > bobsphone.txt.

These things might be godsends to verticals like Fedex who use this kind of stuff daily... but it'll be a long, hard sell as they've already deployed an existing solution that seems to work well for them.

Hopefully MS will lose fortunes on this endeavor and it will be known as Microsoft's Newton (if their Pocket PC doesn't already have that title.)

Though I must admit, running emulated Nintendo games on my Pocket PC was pretty awesome. Of course, MS (or perhaps Compaq) had to screw even this up: The OS or Hardware would not allow me to press a directional arrow key (to move little Mario) and press an A/B key at the same time, making basic gameplay impossible (no running and jumping at the same time, ever.) For things like Tetris it was great, but you had to pick and choose your games due to this drawback.

If someone fixed that problem alone, I'd buy another Pocket PC just for the nintendo games.

(Note: I only played backups of games I already owned. Fair use! :)

Re:it will never fly

[Planesdragon]

These things might be godsends to verticals like Fedex who use this kind of stuff daily... but it'll be a long, hard sell as they've already deployed an existing solution that seems to work well for them.

UPS (and FedEx, I think) allready uses modified PDAs for signature captures.

Re:it will never fly

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Pop quiz: What's the difference between Microsoft's future XP tablets and their existing Pocket PCs, aside from more horsepower you don't need and larger screens, which you also don't need?

Answer: A foldout keyboard and a full-featured/normal desktop OS.

Stop comparing these to any form of PDA, they are obviously not meant to replace them.

Stop whining about keyboards, and go at look at photos. What do most of them come with?

Stop blabering about how much faster it is to type. If you really need to type a lot, you can foldout/attatch a keyboard.

If you mostly type at your computer. Then stop complaining because obviously this computer is not for you.

This is not only godsent for Fedex and the like, but also as a personal laptop for around the house, on the bus etc when you want to do anything that doesn't require too much typing (browsing the web, reading, listening to music, whatching DVD's, most graphic design/3d/video related apps etc).

Just because you don't have a use for this, and also feel the need to flame anything that comes out of MS. Doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way.

Re:it will never fly

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Well, PPCs and Palms already do this.

Yes. Most PDAs can play videos and MP3s (although I have yet to see one with a DVD player). But they usaly do this very pooly compared to a laptop/desktop. I can't fit my 8GB music collection onto any PDA I know of. Browsing the web is a horrible experience even at 640x480, let alone any PDA screen. And working with any real graphics application is pretty much impossible (always a case of 'the more room, the better').

If these things aren't really cheap, who will want to pay a laptop price for the ability to do what their palm and PPC already does, plus DVD?

In that case, who would want to buy a laptop either?
You seem to be under the impression that these tablets are more like PDAs than laptops. I'm under the impression that they're more like to laptops, or at least that's where I think they will be heading.

Understanding what I type

[Gregoyle]

2. Other people can understand what you type.

Hahaha, obvosulkjaesyo you have neverwot tried to tlako toh opme afterb 2 amas when I'have a low blood to caffeoine ratio and my hands are b=made out of byutterfinger bars.

But seriously, I agree with you on the step back in the communications department. I have had a Handspring visor for a while, and any time I had to enter anything substantial in with handwriting recognition it just took forever. A keyboard is a must for any kind of useful data entry.

I could see it being useful for web-surfing and presenting things. Other than that, it seems like it'd be more trouble than it was worth.

Of course, the Star Trek Cool Factor is rather high.

The likelyhood my uncle would buy this...Zero

[amichalo]

I know /. is known for representing teh mainstream non-techs who respond to "Dude, you're getting a Dell" commercials, so when I read about average consumers, I think of my 50-somthing uncle who hates computers and uses them every day.

I ask myself, would my uncle (and thus, the populous) buy this thing? The answer is no. I conclude this by the following:
* A pen is faster When my Uncle needs to write something, he isn't going to always be near his table PC and it isn't going to always be on and ready to write on. Plus, he can leave pens all over his home/car/office.
* A pen is cheaper There is no WAY he will shell out thousands to write on a computer. He wouldn't even shell out $99 for a Palm Zire.
* If he drops a pen, I doesn't break A pen goes in his pocket, it can be sat on, it can be lent out and kept and no big deal.
* A pen allows for expression He can underline, write really big or in all caps or circle stuff with a pen. He can make a note adn stick it somewhere.
*A pen gives feedback With a pen you "feel" what you are writing, slow, fast, pressing hard or lightly, etc. With (given, CE or PalmOS aren't the same) the tablet PC, there is no such feedback.

So I think this tablet may have application for people who can't type but need to do data entry. But mostly, this is what people were clamoring for ten years ago, just being delivered today. Sorry...times have changed. I have no need for this device.

Oh look, a computer!

Handwriting Recognition

[Anonymous Coward]

I was a volunteer for the handwriting recognition group at Microsoft, so I know a little bit about how much MS has put into this technology. They have been getting random people from Redmond and other cities around the world to come in and write for an hour and a half each day, up to 2 days a week, on some kind of older-style tablet PC. This has been going on for OVER FIVE YEARS! I did it for the last year and a half, because you got free software in return (ebay), and ended up paying more than having a real job.

I saw prototypes of these Tablet PC's about a year ago at the research building, and it was impressive. The amount of work that has gone into this is astounding.

Free replacement for handwriting recognition

[distributed.karma]

Slashdot has already covered Dasher but here comes another application. It would be the perfect replacement for that proprietary and poor handwriting recognition. It's notably faster too.

Handwriting?

[mbogosian]

Microsoft Claimed it 'will recognize all your handwriting unless you can't read it yourself.

Gee...that's funny...I type a lot faster than I write. Of course, maybe that's why Handspring got rid of the letter pad and replaced it with a keyboard on their Treos....

This is "innovation"?

Re:HP calculators - MOD PARENT DOWN

[zentec]

I just bought an HP49G and guess what, it has RPN. And I use RPN because I like it.

Tablets going for 1.99 **CHEAP**

[WankersRevenge]

I hear they are selling tablets for a 1.99. It's got some amazing features - handwriting recognition, cheap storage, and best yet, it can be instantly shutdown without any loss of data. It's lighter than MS versions and runs without a sound. Of course, there's a catch. You have to buy a stylus - it doesn't come included which kind of sucks because sometimes the stylus costs more than the tablet itself. It's called "Notebook" or "Notepad". A special edition will quickly follow called "journal" or something. It will be selling at all major stores, not just computer stores. Wow. Sign me up.

Last year?! People have had these for a decade.

[aussersterne]

This has been repeated over and over ad infinitum, but since it pops up in the topic again, I'll answer.

Lines of full-fledged tablet PC's with both digital ink and toggle-on-off-able handwriting recognition have existed for a decade. The original impetus for the IBM ThinkPad line was the PAD concept. Fujitsu has the Stylistic. Casio has the Fiva. Panasonic has a tablet PC or two, as do several other manufacturers.

Years ago I had a Fujitsu Stylistic that ran Windows 95 which had Microsoft pen extensions which would recognize my cursive handwriting, allow me to doodle, mark up Word documents and Excel spreadsheets with revision marks, take notes in "digital ink" and optionally recognize them later. I took notes on it in school. Everyone 'ooh'ed and 'aah'ed even though the machine was already years old. Apparently, people are still 'ooh'ing and 'aah'ing.

This isn't new. The marketing push is new. The technology has been around for ever in technology terms. Prices aren't even all that steep. Go to eBay and search for 'Fujitsu Stylistic' and you'll find yourself a whole gallery of Pentium-based tablet PC's in the $100 range which can run Linux (see http://www.linuxslate.org) or Windows 95 with pen extensions.

If anything is interesting about this, it's the following question: if so many people are so excited about this technology every time they see it, how come it still isn't very well known?

Re:Last year?! People have had these for a decade.

[aussersterne]

The Fujitsu Stylistic has a glass screen that is perfectly transparent. There was no 'film' over the top of it of the type you see on Palm devices. The color TFT display of the Stylistic I used rivaled any TFT laptop display you can see today -- it was beautiful, bright and colorful, again much better than any PDA display I've seen, and pretty much identical to a modern laptop display, except that it was covered with glass -- an added, protective benefit.

I can't speak to sampling rate, but I can tell you that I took notes at full speed -- and any college student can write very fast -- and I never felt like I was fighting the technology in any way. It was perfectly natural. I still have all of those notes archived on my computer to this very day!

Re:Last year?! People have had these for a decade.

[compugeek007]

Just as an FYI - About 5 years ago I was a hardened PC tech at a major metropolitan hospital. We deployed a fleet of the Fujitsu tablets you mentioned complete with PCMCIA with RF networking (not sure what the RF standard was at that time) and access points. They replaced the bedside "Clipboards" and interfaced directly with the Hospitals mainframe.

My recollection was that the docs used them for about a day then lost interest, reverting back to the clipboards - IMO their handwriting may be hard to read but I would rather have it translated by a floor nurse who knows what the hell is going on than some buggy hacked together software!!

Re:Last year?! People have had these for a decade.

[aussersterne]

I'm not suggesting that Tablet PC's are appropriate for every venue -- far from it... I would argue that the new round of Tablet PC's are inappropriate for Medical use for the same reason that the older ones have always been...

Comebine industry-specific jargon with horrible handwriting (I've never met a doctor whose handwriting I could read, and I'm related to several) and you'll not ever find a device that can substitute for a human who also has knowledge of the jargon in question and a working knowledge of the poor handwriting as well (i.e. a nurse).

All I was suggesting is that no new problems are solved by this new round of Tablet PC's... Where Tablet PC's have been successful in the past, they will continue to be successful. Where they have failed, they will continue to fail, because precious little new technology is introduced by this marketing campaign.

Re:Last year?! People have had these for a decade.

[compugeek007]

I agree with you, didn't want to come off as stand-offish!! I was just relaying an experience with them I had. I wouldn't think that many of reasonable mind would feel differently than you or I on the computerized translation of medical-jargon-bad-doctors handwriting issue.

Re:Last year?! People have had these for a decade.

[istartedi]

: if so many people are so excited about this technology every time they see it, how come it still isn't very well known

IIRC, hypertext was first demonstrated in 1968, and people who saw the demo got really excited. Then of course there is the infamous XEROX PARC deal where they demoed a fully functional GUI and all the suits could come up with was "How can we attach a copier the size of a refrigerator to this?" The rest is history. It may take the muscle of MSFT to not only hype the technology, but also to take customer feedback, respond to it, and create a winning product. I mean, sure they had a mouse back in the 1960s, but it's a long way from an upside-down trackball the size of a softball to the first GUI Mac. I don't mean to say that the earlier tablets are that crude; but sometimes you need just the right refinement to push something into the mainstream.

Now that we have smaller, cooler CPUs, the time may be right. The "ooh that's cool" feature has always been there. What will be new is the "hey, I can use this all the time". Before it was "this gets heavy, hot, and uncomfortable after a while, and the software doesn't work well enough".

Once again, the Simpsons has something to say about this: "Beat up Martin" --> "Eat up Martha", followed by Nelson throwing his Newton. So... when I get a chance to test one, "Beat up Martin" will be the first thing I write.

Re:Last year?! People have had these for a decade.

[Lumpy]

you'll find yourself a whole gallery of Pentium-based tablet PC's in the $100 range which can run Linux (see http://www.linuxslate.org) or Windows 95 with pen extensions.

and it's really easy to get Win98 to use the win95 pen extensions... (win98 is really win95 with bugfixes and more pictures :-)

A buddy of mine said he had a beta test of WinNT 4.0 pen extensions so itmay be very possible to get Windows 2000 going this way... although a Pentium III 866 that is required to get the W2K bloat to run nicely is rather expensive ($1.2K)

Linux runs on these better than Xp can run on anything. and ther stylistic is a true touch screen so you can ditch the silly special pen and use your big mushy fingers to surf the web...

Microsoft tried this tablet push before... it failed miserably... this one will too.

Why so expensive?

[van der Rohe]

If they really want this to compete with the notebook market, why is it so underpowered and so expensive?

I can imagine buying one if it was roughly the cost of a comparable laptop. But it's not.

That, plus the fact that the three hour battery life makes it useless for the one market where it could be ideal - students - , means that this is going nowhere.

My. $.03

gnu/linux handwriting recognition already done

[FreeUser]

If the digitizer is already accessible (which it is if others, e.g. S. Korea, have already been using them with GNU/Linux), then the handwriting tools have already been written.

My Ipaq running Linux recognizes my handwriting just fine. So does the Sharp a colleague of mine has. I do not know if sharp's software is free(dom), but the software running on my ipaq is.

when they are 250.00 to 500.00 they will be useful

[madpuppy]

They keep pushing tablet pc and they get a lukewarm reception from consumers....the companies that make these things keep forgetting that price and usefulness drives a new market.
All this talk about "tablet PC's" is a waste until they are being sold for around 250.00 to 500.00
why would I spend 2000.00 and up for it? you would have to be an idiot to spend that kind of money when you can get a High end laptop that has tons more functionality or a pda which may be small but is also relativly cheap. I will tell you what a tablet pc would be good for. when you want to browse the internet in bed or on the pot. it would be better if it was a wireless device for your PC. now THAT would be usefull.

Bob & "Clippy" Were Revolutionary & Innova

[zentec]

This is another "that's cool, now where's my free stuff for attending" performance from Microsoft.

Under the right applications and circumstances, it would eliminate the repetitive type, move-hand, mouse, click, move-hand, type, move-hand, mouse, click, type nonsense that's such a pain in the neck.

However, I can't see anyone with average or better typing skills using this for anything more than reducing the amount of work to scroll pages.

Based upon my experiences with a iPaq, handwriting notes system is just too klunky. Obviously increasing the size to a tablet would really help that, but I can't imagine myself ditching the keyboard and using this for anything but checkboxes and scrolling.

If Microsoft really wants a winning innovation, how about eliminating the nagging fear I have each and every time I open an email in Outlook from someone I do not know. Now that would truly be useful!

Newton II?

[Cheese Cracker]

Did Microsoft learn anything from Apple's Newton? I doubt that people will line up to get their hands on a Tablet PC, since it doesn't offer anything new. If it had come with a very advanced voice recognition, I would certainly have been giving it a second thought. But this whole Tablet PC adventure is yet another step by Microsoft to get a better foothold in the hardware market. MS continues to diversify their business...

What's the point? Anyone?

[Winterblink]

Someone explain the point of tablet computing to me. I just don't get why this is suddenly some kind of paradigm shift, as Microsoft would have everyone believe.

didn't South Korea supposedly have these last year

[daniel2000]

NO WAY! nothing is invented until MS says it is.

Re:You guys are mising the point

[GlassUser]

Exactly. I would be a lot more effective if I could have a phone/pda and a tablet pc, with a drop station (so it works like a desktop at my desk) and a home server (so I can have everythign synced and backed up from a central location). Currently I have a dumb cell phone, an ipaq, and a desktop, and it's just not flexible enough. I have to carry two bulky devices where ever I go (phone and pda), and I have to maintain my desktop. And keep a server colocated or beside my desk to run email, web, and home services.

If I had a tablet, I could leave my USB devices (printer, keyboard, mouse, camera, scanner, joystick, etc) plugged into the base, and drop/pull the actual tablet as needed. Of course the phone/pc could sync as needed, either with the tablet or the home server. When I want to walk around hands free, I keep the phone clipped on my belt (like I have to already). On a job or expecting to take notes, I can keep the tablet on me too.

Obviously, not everyone has the same lifestyle as I do, but just because you don't see any use for having a tablet yourself doesn't mean you need to knock it.

Typical...

[Badanov]

I swear, same slashdotters looks at some device and automatically they think, maybe we can run Linux on that. Slashdotter's Mom: Would you like a nice cuppa coffee from my new coffeemaker? Slashdotter: Mooo oom, may be we can run Linux on the coffeemaker.

One question

[Compuser]

So whoever had seen the sales pitch, please
comment. Does this thing understand stenography?
If it does, this could be way useful for
board meetings and such and also for my own
devious needs (going to a scientific seminar
with one of those could then rock).

UPS probably won't be using XP Tablet Edition

[nurightshu]

I can't speak for FedEx, and when I say that I'm speaking "for UPS," it is not the official view of my employer, my country, my neighbor, or that guy in the lobby of my apartment building who talks to the wall.

That said, speaking for UPS, we use the DIAD III (Delivery Information Acquisition Device, revision III) for delivery scans, signature tracking, and even communication with the package car drivers. The DIAD runs off a Motorola processor (couldn't tell you model number off the top of my head, but I think it's a custom job and not commodity) and a custom-built OS designed by the good folks at Corporate Technology Support Group headquarters in Mahwah, New Jersey. They've already got built-in signature pads, cellular modems, and bar-code readers, but no touch screen.

Rumor from our corporate cognoscenti has it that the DIAD IV will be similar to a tablet, running a bastardized version of MS Pocket PC 2002, and exchanging the keypad currently present for a touch screen. Also in the works are integrated two-way GPS support (broadcasting the location back to the delivery center and receiving driving directions in return for unfamiliar addresses) and two-way voice communications to replace the text messaging currently used. Net result should be a better tool for the drivers to get packages delivered more reliably.

Speaking of reliability, in the two years I've worked in the Northern Plains hub building, I've never seen the DIAD Control System software package fail, despite the fact that it was originally written for OS/2. Pretty robust code.

I'll be nice and tell you guys...

[xintegerx]

If you guys are interested in Tablet PC's, here's a link I came across accidentally yesterday. Fujitsu's new Tablet PC. It's not like the 'detachable screen from the laptop' type.

Instead, it's a stand-alone tablet that you carry with you and use with a pen. HOWEVER, there are 3-USB-port desktop stations that you just put the Tablet into, and voila--a desktop system with a real keyboard and mouse attached. The tablet becomes the monitor--WHICH YOU CAN TILT to view in LANDSCAPE or regular view! And adjust these settings straight with one button presses straight on the TABLET, so you can easily make the tablet LANDSCAPE even without using the desktop configurator.

Also, at the end of the video, the Fujitsu guy says you can take the keyboard along instead of the whole desktop system if you're going on the road. I don't know if the keyboard plugs into that Tablet PC (didn't sound like it at the beginning of the vid.), but what you do is probably plug the keyboard straight into the tablet versus the desktop station.

All in all, pretty nifty. BUT THERE ARE PROBLEMS:
IT doesn't look like it is comfortable to hold because there aren't grips for the hands on the sides (I'm pretty sure this is the fact.) And, holding the Tablet with your right hand to write with your left you could end up pressing those screen layout buttons I just described. And of course, the cord for the pen better be long enough for comfortable LEFT-HANDED use!

Also, the scroll bars BETTER BE ABLE TO BE ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SCREEN for us left-handers.

Fujitsu's 12-years-in-the-making Table PC

This is a good video sponsored by IBM but about Fujitsu and CNET's 5 minute demo video/interview. It seems to be more of a MARKETING video rather than an interview, but addresses the major questions a TABLET PC newbie could have!

IMHO

[Matey-O]

It looks like a way for the industry to kickstart a lot of $2000 laptop sales. The hardware changes are minor ($20 WACOM custom controller, $1 hinge), and the software is good, but of a 'utility' level of capability.

After seeing what kind of laptop $1100 bought my mom (13" display, 30gb, 256mb, combo drive), this seems like a ploy to sell more $2000 laptops.

then stop saying it...

[tswinzig]

...and don't buy one, because you're not in their target market.

Ooh - what I hope happens!...

[RyanFenton]

1. Microsoft, after conducting polls consisting of them seeing if they can get the average person to call it "cool", decides to spend billions on development of cheap, portable flat panels, efficient power supplies, and come out with a $500 version of a tablet PC that stores an 8-hour charge overnight, with extra rechargeable batteries $20 a pop.

2. People decide they'd rather have a keyboard, and a non-specialized operating system, so just get laptops instead.

3. Nintendo and sony release portable gaming devices with HUGE LCD displays based off the defunct technology that they buy off all the companies that went along with the Tablet PC idea.

Or perhaps it'll just end up an extension of the X-Box in a few years. Just so long as the development of the displays gets done - otherwise, all we have are crippled laptops without keyboards, or a moderately bulked-up PDA, depending on how you look at it. I guess it's still better than the "Internet Appliance". :^)

Ryan Fenton

paradigm shift

[tswinzig]

Tablets will never replace laptops for most users

Perhaps true, perhaps not. However, the better question to ask is how many NEW AREAS can computers enter due to this new style of computing system?

In the industry I work in, I already have some very cool ideas where these could be extremely successful, where no other computing system currently fits... a paradigm shift.

People have had this exact hardware for a decade?

[tswinzig]

If anything is interesting about this, it's the following question: if so many people are so excited about this technology every time they see it, how come it still isn't very well known?

Maybe the technology has finally caught up the idea? Can you really say that this same EXACT technology has been around for a decade? We all know the IDEA has been ATTEMPTED before, but compare the end products. How do those $100 ebay jobbies compare to this new iteration? The new iteration has:

- More power. Modern speeds and capabilities.
- Better screens, better input recognition, better pen technology.
- Better handwriting technology (by most accounts)
- Better integration between the OS, the apps, and the pen
- Better docking capabilities (carry the tablet with you for writing, dock it later and use it as your monitor/cpu on your desktop.

There are all kinds of ideas that are attempted numerous times, failing constantly until the technology catches up to the idea. How do you know this isn't one of those times?

Re:HP calculators - MOD PARENT DOWN

[os2fan]

RPN calculators have a lot less "pending" operations than algebraic calculators. This is because all of the argurments of any function are present before the operation is done.

The actual control logic takes about 10 lines of code, and has very few pending values [just the stack]. Further more, the RPN logic needs to know nothing about what's in the stack (eg matricies, complex numbers). One is not dependent on the manufactures implementation of pending operations. In an algebraic calculator 3*4+2*5 can give all sorts of different values, eg 22, 70. The same command in RPN is 3~4*2~5*+ (~ is enter) alwaus gives 22. This lopks strange, but is the exact way you would do the calculation yourself: get 3, get 4, multiply. Get 2, get 5, multipy. Add the two together.

Of course, algebraic calculators are not strictly algebraic, eg cos 60 is entered as 60 cos in both systems.

In practice, the last time I looked, RPN was doing quite well with the financial crowd, since both it and tape-calculators (ie += -= logic) take the operator after the number. That is, to add 5, one goes 5 + or 5 +=, rather than + 5.

If one is used to using prefix-operators, you will find the algebraic form easier and faster. If you find the postfix-operators, you will find RPN and Strip-adders easier to use. If you normally expect people to be able to use your calcualtor, you should have both kinds at your desk.

yes, Linux can compete

[g4dget]

That is Microsoft's party line, but they are wrong.

There is plenty of Linux handwriting recognition software out there (among others, from the handhelds.org effort), and speech recognition software can be adapted for handwriting as well. And X11 has had provisions for alternative input methods for many years. Ink notebooks, annotations, and all that are old technology as well and are not all that difficult to code up.

The only thing that has been missing up to this point is reasonably priced hardware. Now that that is there, Linux will move into that space as well.

Re:People have had this exact hardware for a decad

[aussersterne]

Because I've personally seen both devices.

Honestly, other than the fact that the Stylistic I used only had a P5-120 and 80MB memory, there isn't much difference beyond mere "refinement" -- and not much of it at that. And a P5-120 with 80MB is enough to run most modern software (including Mozilla).

Charlie Rose

[condour75]

Not sure if anyone else caught it, but he was on Charlie Rose tonight. Hyping the tablet.

Charlie asked him if he was scared of linux and he said that they took it very seriously. He also mentioned privacy concerns of end users (without actually mentioning Palladium directly) and talked about their continuing investment in R&D.

No big whoop.

Re:Vadem

[HughsOnFirst]

The Vadem Clio, I really wanted one of those. One of the few things
that went belly up before I managed to buy one.

After Amiga went under, I bought a Dauphin, and a week later
they went bankrupt. A year later I bought a Zeos, and Zeos
went bankrupt 2 days later. Then I installed OS/2 on
the Zeos... And don't get me started on the deal where I got paid in Cisco
stock, My accountant says I'll be able to take $3000 off of my taxes
every year for the next 92 years

I hope my dangerphone escapes the curse of hugh.

He's not the target.

[rebelcool]

You miss the point of the tablet pc. My father on one hand IS the target at his work. Down in the machine shop and testing areas they're always taking down notes and entering numbers from the machines. This requires running all over the rather large shop. It's not physically nice to carry around a laptop (no place to set it down), so they use a pad of paper.

These numbers still have to be entered into a computer later on to be crunched (via excel usually), errors happen as a result of messy handwriting transferance, resulting in big headaches. Solution: Use the tablet PC to enter the numbers directly into excel as they're standing at the machinery. Crunch there. No mess, no errors, instant results.

This is the market of the tablet PC. Not your uncle.

Re: battery life

[King_TJ]

It seems to me that, given a device shaped like an "etch-a-sketch" tablet (with no attached keyboard portion), you'd be able to do some more interesting things with batteries.

You may recall some of the notebooks from companies like Micron, that achieved 10+ hour battery life when a big battery "slab" was snapped onto the bottom of the laptop. It made the latop thicker, all the way around, but it did the job. It seems to me people would find this type of battery much more acceptable if it was on the back of a fairly thin LCD panel/tablet. After all, there's nothing else to carry but the screen portion. When "docked" as a vertical-standing monitor, you wouldn't really notice the big battery on the back. That way, it wouldn't detract from the "sleekness factor" of the overall system.

Re: absolutely!

[King_TJ]

I agree. The problem is, every new technology that's released and fails becomes doubly hard to re-release the next time, no matter how many refinements are done.

I think "pen computing" is one of those ideas that has such a "gee whiz" factor, people rushed to sell software/hardware using it way before its time.

I know when I think of pen computers, I think of clunky systems running Windows 3.11 for Pen computing with bulky pens on coiled cords. I don't really think of a sleek, high-resolution tablet, with a cordless pen - and the ability dock vertically as a display for a keyboard and mouse on a desk.

So yeah, at this point, who *but* Microsoft is going to spend the advertising dollars to once again try to sell the latest "update" to this decade-old tech?

Apple probably did more for the idea than anyone else with the Newton - but its relative lack of ability to recognize handwriting accurately doomed it to being made fun of in Saturday cartoons. The fact they ditched the whole product line rather than make further attempts at revisions spoke volumes to the masses about their "belief" in the pen computing idea.

There's a lot of "damage" to undo before it'll sell big this time around.

Wearable computing

[Galvatron]

Okay, this is something of a tangent, I'll admit, but this would be my ideal vision of a "tablet computer." First, you have your computer. This should be no bigger than a walkman, something you could keep in your pocket or clipped to your belt. This would have parts designed for low heat and low power consumption, like a PDA, except hopefully if it doesn't incorporate a screen, and doesn't have to be quite so thin, it could be a tad more powerful.

Then, you'd have your peripherals. They'd be wireless (presumably bluetooth or somesuch), communicating with the computer over an encrypted channel (even without the security concerns, you'd obviously want your devices to only be trying to connect to your computer). So, if you want to use a tablet, you just pull the tablet out of your briefcase, switch it on, and it connects with your computer. If you want an eyeglasses-type display and a handykey, you switch those on instead. If you're most comfortable with the laptop paradigm, an ultrathin lcd screen plus keyboard should be availabe too (possibly the screen would double as a tablet, above).

This is, as I see it, the ultimate solution. Rather than carrying around a half dozen different but somewhat redundant devices (cell phone, pda, mp3 player, laptop, etc.), wouldn't it be great if we could just have one always on processor, and just had to bring whatever input/output devices we wanted along with us?

I'm pretty tired here, sorry if this is a little incoherent, but what do people think?

Bias for Apple

[crucini]

Certainly slashdot prefers Apple to Microsoft. MacOS X is pretty amazing - a consumer-ready Unix OS. Everyone, Windows-user or Unix-user or computer illiterate drools over a TiBook running OSX. (Lots of us have second thoughts about slowness, cost, compatibility and freedom.) I don't care how many machines Dell sells; I've never seen their products elicit Apple-scale reactions. At least for now, Apple is producing much more interesting and admirable products than Microsoft. TiBook, IPOD, OSX, Airport versus what, MSN and XDOCS (which were front page stories anyway)?

Apple's products are interesting in themselves - Microsoft's and Dell's products are interesting only from a business perspective. Dell figured out how to overcharge lazy people for a generic PC - that probably makes them fascinating to MBA's.

Get 'em while they're young...

[stereoroid]

If the prices come down significantly, I can see schools being a huge market for Tablets. That and waterproofing to prevent damage from spills of Coke or Pepsi or vomit (from too much sugar). Kids love to doodle and draw, and (I believe) parents will always want their kids to learn handwriting, even if it's becoming obsolete.

I can even see a Tablet being very useful in teaching kids how to write. (Follow the rabbit around while he traces out a capital Q.) If handwriting recognition is hard for computers, well, we can teach kids to write in a way that saves CPU cycles and improves accuracy.

Just imagine: the apple-of-your-eye comes home from school and shows you the handwriting she learned today: perfect "Times New Roman"!

Re:HP calculators - MOD PARENT DOWN

[os2fan]

Whether the use of RPN over algebraic calculators will make your life easier is a moot point. It's the same issue as Qwerty vs Dorvak keyboards. I am not sure about your remark about RPN users being more arithmetically challanged.

RPN is an easy process to implement in code. It is also very useful when you can't pass parameters in a call. This is because an operation like + or * finds the inputs in the stack, and leaves the stack in a known condition. As a result, *only one operator at a time* is in use.

If you are using something that has an open arena, or variable pool [such as BASIC or REXX], then because only one operator is active, *all operators* can use the same internal variables.

If the stack is implemented as an array [A, L, X, Y, Z, T, pi, memory], one can implement storage and recall operators by pointing the pointer at memory.

If you think that RPN is something to do with post operators, eg 5,3+, there are differences between the commercial 4-deep implementations of RPN and the infinite stack.

But basically, RPN is just a different way of doing things.

Text conversion

[siskbc]

Maybe I should have mentioned that I trust MS's text conversion software about as much as I trust my cat to babysit a bird.

Seriously, I've never known OCR to be more of an aid than a pain in the ass.

Some number crunches...

[rebelcool]

require more power than a pda provides and need a full PC. Excel is the most commonly used one, but they interface with much larger engineering apps.

Exactly.

[thatguywhoiam]

I think you've nailed it. Well, I agree, anyways.

I've had this idea kicking around in my head for awhile now that I (internally) refer to as the 'boomerang'. It would be an LCD screen with an 802.11 connection and a GPU, pen-input, a long-life battery, and that's pretty much it. What people really want is their desktop, somewhere else. Just cast it over the ether, making the 'tablet' a giant full colour touch-screen remote control for your existing computer. With the 802.11 connection, you could access your home computer from anywhere you can get access like usual. It doesn't need a hard drive, just some nonvolatile RAM.

Sell it for $400 and you're laughing.

*deep breath* The ACTUAL Point

[enjo13]

It seems like 95% of the posts here all trumpet the same theme..."I can input faster with my keyboard." This is true, but I challenge you.. can you input faster with your keyboard while standing up?

That's the point.. The problem with traditional laptops is that they are essentially useless in the hallway or standing in line. The tablet PC's are more like really big PDA's, they are designed for the executive/professional that spends a large part of their day on two feet. They provide keyboards on most models for those "other times," while still affording them the ability to make use of their machine virtually anywhere.

For example, my Father in law is an insurance auditor. Right now they have a laptop that they use to fill out reports after inspecting the sites. They can't write the report during the inspection, after all their laptop is worthless while they run around inspecting things. With a tablet PC they can use their traditional PC applications to fill out their reports without having to scribble notes onto paper and then transfer them to the laptop at a later time... They spend their days on their feet, and this looks like the perfect answer for them.

Microsoft Shill?

[danmil]

We've all heard the speculation that Microsoft is paying people to read /. and fill its discussions with pro-M$ comments. I always thought this sounded kind of paranoid, but...

Call me crazy, but it looks like our friend marauder404 is one of said M$oft employees. Take a look at his list of comments. Not only are almost all of them supporting The Beast, but they do so in the sort of marketing weaselese that only people working in PR produce.

7 Comments in the Microsoft Hypes XP Tablets story, all pro-M$, including such gems as:

Honestly, I felt the same way -- I didn't think it was the next big thing at all. But after seeing some pictures and doing a lot of reading, I'm convinced that it's worth a second look. It may not be for me, but I'm definitely going to check it out. (1)

and

1. Don't knock it till you've tried it. I'm still somewhat skeptical, but I took some time to research it and hope to use one soon. (2)

Doesn't that prose remind you a bit of the debunked Switch campaign from a few weeks back? And, he's not skeptical at all -- he echoes back the most ludicrous claims of M$:

I also hope that the handwriting recognition is fast enough to keep up with me -- I hear that it scans 133 times per second and makes several guesses at what you're trying to write and anticipates. When it misses (something like 5 out of every 10,000), it'll present some options. (3)

Funny, I hear (from David Pogue at the NYTimes), that the handwriting recognition makes plenty of errors and that "Each mistaken transcription, botched punctuation mark and improperly capitalized word forces you into an excruciating spasm of touch-screen microsurgery." And what kind of BS is "it scans 133 times per second"? I don't even know what that means.

My fave is when he asks for our sympathy for the M$oft execs who were demoing them tablets and had 25% of them fail:

Ever have a system problem while trying to demo something? You downplay it, any way you can. I saw one poor guy struggle for twenty minutes trying to get something to work in front of 1,500 people. (4)

Oh, right, it's natural to think of M$oft execs as the "poor guy", and we should all put ourselves in their shoes.

Other totals:

• 6 subtly pro-M$ comments in the "Open Source More Expensive In the Long Run?" story
• 1 pro-IE comment in "Mozilla: The Good And The Bad"
• The following absolute beauty in the "Microsoft Anti-Trust Rulings Due Tomorrow" discussion:

  You're basically saying Microsoft is behaving like every other major company in corporate America and like thousands of other organizations -- trying to buy some influence. No need to single out Microsoft for having done this -- there are many others that are just as guilty or worse. Welcome to American politics. 5

He also tosses in a few non-M$ related comments here and there, but the trend is clear.

So, what to do about this? Well, I thought I should mention it in this comment. And, hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he just really likes M$ and happens to talk like one of their PR people. He has every right to do so. But everyone reading his opinions should consider the distinct possibility that he is getting paid to write here on our beloved /.

-Dan

Re:Microsoft Shill?

[marauder404]

LOL ... I'm flattered that you'd do so much research on me to try to figure out who I am and what I do, and I can understand why you'd think so, but I can't help but to combat a lot of the ignorance on this board. I don't want to come off as somebody that says, "you're wrong ... this MS product rules!" I presented actual arguments with as much fact as I could find to try to counter a lot of the straight-up biases. You and I both know that Slashdot is known for a lot of its biases and I'm just trying to offer a different view. I am surely not a Microsoft employee and while I use a lot of Microsoft products, I don't think that they're a panacea. Their produts are touch and go at best, but they shouldn't be totally discounted. I'm advocating informed decision about products, and I think you'll find a lot of my comments support that. I'm a programmer for a consulting company and use whatever product gets the job done. I use both Linux and Windows XP at home. I use Java and Perl as much as C# and VB.

As for the individual comments that you quoted and would like addressed, I posted a lot of stuff for the Tablet PC because it was something that I found was a lot more useful than my first look. I found lots of comments that were the obvious round of jokes, but honestly, a lot of people sounded like they didn't really read much about it. Read the comments that I responded to -- a lot of people think that the keyboard is gone! That's what I thought, that's why I dismissed it originally, and that's why I was wrong. I think it's definitely worth a second look as a result, and after reading a bunch of articles online and finding real pictures of the product being used, I can see how it might be useful to some people. I haven't used the handwriting recognition system yet -- I'm only hearing from people that saw the demo that it worked very well, from what they could see while the guy doing the demo wrote on the screen. It scans at 133 times per second as opposed to the typical 40 that a mouse does. Each scan cycle adds data to the handwriting recognition system. I don't know the details of how effectively it uses that data.

Regarding the other companies, yeah, I think that MS has had some very seriously reprehensible business tactics. I also think that people are singling out MS when there are other companies that doing things just as bad. Articles make Slashdot headlines simply because it's Microsoft whereas if it was another company, it wouldn't have. This article from the other day is a good example, I think. People are trashing MS just because a vendor cancelled an agreement with them. I didn't think it was that big of a deal, but I could be wrong.

Anyway, I could spend all day defending my posts. I will say that many of my posts are in response to something that I feel is an unjustified bias -- against TiVo, MS, the US govt, whatever. I only respond to articles that I feel I know something about. Thanks for the well-documented post, though. Seriously, I've been called a lot worse than a shill and it was just a one-liner. Supporting your argument with links, quotes, and valid conclusions. I gotta say that if I were in your shoes, I can't help but to think that I would have come to the same conclusion.

Re:Microsoft Shill?

[ClosedSource]

"We've all heard the speculation that Microsoft is paying people to read /. and fill its discussions with pro-M$ comments. I always thought this sounded kind of paranoid .."

You were right. What possible value would MS derive from posting positive MS comments on /.? The shedding of excess karma?

Microsoft: late and arrogant, as usual

[g4dget]

MS designed TabletPC 5 years ago, and has 5 years head start implementing it all.

Oh, that long? Many people have been working on this for 20+ years. As usual, Microsoft is late to the game.

Microsoft's 5 years of work on this product from the developer division, the office division, the windows division, the emerging technologies division, and the research division represent an investment of billions of dollars. It is organized, and it did take longer than 5 years of all of these divisions working together to pull this off.

Well, we have known all along that Microsoft software development is horribly inefficient: they don't work smart, they work hard. That's why it takes such horrendous efforts to produce a fairly incremental add-on to their OS.

Irony strikes again: in order to develop Linux for the Tablet PC, you are going to have to convince HP or some other TabletPC vendor to sell you one without the MS OS or you'll be paying Microsoft

That's been the case for MS Windows and Windows CE for many years as well. Linux succeeded despite of it. It's not fair, but we can live with it. Tablet PC software or not, the mass production of these tablets finally drives down their price enough.

When will the TabletLinux API be written?

What is needed in terms of APIs already exists.

The fact that the price of the software is hidden by the hardware price eats up your free as in beer argument.

I don't recall making a "free as in beer" argument. I really don't care actually. I just want to use software that doesn't suck, and Microsoft has yet to produce any. Whether you or anybody else uses that software, or whether Gates becomes any richer, really doesn't matter to me.

XP Tablets

[ConceptJunkie]

Just as effective as cyanide tablets, but longer lasting.

It's really about the sofware and other potential

[WillAdams]

(shamelessly taken from Motion Computing's page:
https://www.motioncomputing.com/products/softwar e_ coolstuff.asp )

FranklinCovey TabletPlanner
(Planning, Scheduling, Notes)
- www.tabletplanner.com

Corel Grafigo
(Create & Collaborate)
- www.corel.com/grafigo

Zinio Reader
(Digital eMagazines & eBooks)
- www.zinio.com

This came from www.sportinit.com

Alias Wavefront Sketchbook
(draw, annotate, present)
- http://www.aliaswavefront.com/en/products/sketchbo ok/info.shtml

Even EDS is getting into things:
http://www.eds.com/products/plm/teamcente r/
(but the project lead for that said this is a better url:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/021107/sfth058_1 .html
)

www.infocater.com and www.pencomputing.com have reviews / product listings / links.

William

true but....

[commodoresloat]

I have tried a few different models of these things and let me tell you there are a lot of bugs to be worked out. The interface seems intuitive but you have to re-learn it for every different model that comes out. And none of the models I've seen have really worked out the speech synthesis bugs. Oh yeah, the speech works and all, but you can't turn it off, and it often pipes up at the worst possible time. And the logic feature seems to only work when it wants to. Plus the maintenance costs are far more than you would think. And you've got to keep them decked out with new hardware if you really want to hang on to them.....

Who moderated me as funny?

[HughsOnFirst]

funny???Who moderated me as funny?

I guess it really IS like Mell Brooks says;

"tragedy is when I cut my finger; comedy when you fall down an
open manhole and die."