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Evolution Reaches A New Milestone
dalutong writes "Ximian has recently released Evolution v1.2 to the masses. New features include (among other ones that don't affect me as much) optional Emacs and XEmacs bindings in the email composer and much faster mailbox indexing (and thus loading.) It's nice to know evolution hasn't stopped."
Evolution has reached a new milestone
Does that mean there was a beneficial mutation?
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
But I normally do try and keep it quiet. Please no more slashdot headlines about me, ok?
I live in a giant bucket.
Does that mean the kitchen sink is also included, or will that come along with the next release?
Har har. Hopefully, others trying to make this joke will see this post, and see that it is not funny, and think twice.
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
Why do Emacs and XEmacs have to be listed differently and separately? Is there a reason for their duplicity, or does xemacs run on X11? Someone fill me in.
"The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
Did you just imply there is a better text editor than vi?
I sincerely hope you did not, and I will refrain from killing you if it was an honest gramatical slip. Otherwise expect to meet my shotgun as soon as I figure out where you live.
Thank you, and good day.
I live in a giant bucket.
2.5 million B.C.: OOG the Open Source Caveman develops the axe and releases it under the GPL. The axe quickly gains popularity as a means of crushing moderators' heads.
100,000 B.C.: Man domesticates the AIBO.
10,000 B.C.: Civilization begins when early farmers first learn to cultivate hot grits.
3000 B.C.: Sumerians develop a primitive cuneiform perl script.
2920 B.C.: A legendary flood sweeps Slashdot, filling up a Borland / Inprise story with hundreds of offtopic posts.
1750 B.C.: Hammurabi, a Mesopotamian king, codifies the first EULA.
490 B.C.: Greek city-states unite to defeat the Persians. ESR triumphantly proclaims that the Greeks "get it".
399 B.C.: Socrates is convicted of impiety. Despite the efforts of freesocrates.com, he is forced to kill himself by drinking hemlock.
336 B.C.: Fat-Time Charlie becomes King of Macedonia and conquers Persia.
4 B.C.: Following the Star (as in hot young actress) of Bethelem, wise men travel from far away to troll for baby Jesus.
A.D. 476: The Roman Empire BSODs.
A.D. 610: The Glorious MEEPT!! founds Islam after receiving a revelation from God. Following his disappearance from Slashdot in 632, a succession dispute results in the emergence of two troll factions: the Pythonni and the Perliites.
A.D. 800: Charlemagne conquers nearly all of Germany, only to be acquired by andover.net.
A.D. 874: Linus the Red discovers Iceland.
A.D. 1000: The epic of the Beowulf Cluster is written down. It is the first English epic poem.
A.D. 1095: Pope Bruce II calls for a crusade against the Turks when it is revealed they are violating the GPL. Later investigation reveals that Pope Bruce II had not yet contacted the Turks before calling for the crusade.
A.D. 1215: Bowing to pressure to open-source the British government, King John signs the Magna Carta, limiting the British monarchy's power. ESR triumphantly proclaims that the British monarchy "gets it".
A.D. 1348: The ILOVEYOU virus kills over half the population of Europe. (The other half was not using Outlook.)
A.D. 1420: Johann Gutenberg invents the printing press. He is immediately sued by monks claiming that the technology will promote the copying of hand-transcribed books, thus violating the church's intellectual property.
A.D. 1429: Natalie Portman of Arc gathers an army of Slashdot trolls to do battle with the moderators. She is eventually tried as a heretic and stoned (as in petrified).
A.D. 1478: The Catholic Church partners with doubleclick.net to launch the Spanish Inquisition.
A.D. 1492: Christopher Columbus arrives in what he believes to be "India", but which RMS informs him is actually "GNU/India".
A.D. 1508-12: Michaelengelo attempts to paint the Sistine Chapel ceiling with ASCII art, only to have his plan thwarted by the "Lameness Filter."
A.D. 1517: Martin Luther nails his 95 Theses to the church door and is promptly moderated down to (-1, Flamebait).
A.D. 1553: "Bloody" Mary ascends the throne of England and begins an infamous crusade against Protestants. ESR eats his words.
A.D. 1588: The "IF I EVER MEET YOU, I WILL KICK YOUR ASS" guy meets the Spanish Armada.
A.D. 1603: Tokugawa Ieyasu unites the feuding pancake-eating ninjas of Japan.
A.D. 1611: Mattel adds Galileo Galilei to its CyberPatrol block list for proposing that the Earth revolves around the sun.
A.D. 1688: In the so-called "Glorious Revolution", King James II is bloodlessly forced out of power and flees to France. ESR again triumphantly proclaims that the British monarchy "gets it".
A.D. 1692: Anti-GIF hysteria in the New World comes to a head in the infamous "Salem GIF Trials", in which 20 alleged GIFs are burned at the stake. Later investigation reveals that many of the supposed GIFs were actually PNGs.
A.D. 1769: James Watt patents the one-click steam engine.
A.D. 1776: Trolls, angered by CmdrTaco's passage of the Moderation Act, rebel. After a several-year flame war, the trolls succeed in seceding from Slashdot and forming the United Coalition of Trolls.
A.D. 1789: The French Revolution begins with a distributed denial of service (DDoS) attack on the Bastille.
A.D. 1799: Attempts at discovering Egyptian hieroglyphs receive a major boost when Napoleon's troops discover the Rosetta stone. Sadly, the stone is quickly outlawed under the DMCA as an illegal means of circumventing encryption.
A.D. 1844: Samuel Morse invents Morse code. Cryptography export restrictions prevent the telegraph's use outside the U.S. and Canada.
A.D. 1853: United States Commodore Matthew C. Perry arrives in Japan and forces the xenophobic nation to open its doors to foreign trade. ESR triumphantly proclaims that Japan finally "gets it".
A.D. 1865: President Lincoln is 'bitchslapped.' The nation mourns.
A.D. 1901: Italian inventor Guglielmo Marcoli first demonstrates the radio. Metallica drummer Lars Ulrich immediately delivers to Marcoli a list of 335,435 suspected radio users.
A.D. 1911: Facing a break-up by the United States Supreme Court, Standard Oil Co. defends its "freedom to innovate" and proposes numerous rejected settlements. Slashbots mock the company as "Standa~1" and depict John D. Rockefeller as a member of the Borg.
A.D. 1929: V.A. Linux's stock drops over 200 dollars on "Black Tuesday", October 29th.
A.D. 1945: In the secret Manhattan Project, scientists working in Los Alamos, New Mexico, construct a nuclear bomb from Star Wars Legos.
A.D. 1948: Slashdot runs the infamous headline "DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN." Shamefaced, the site quickly retracts the story when numerous readers point out that it is not news for nerds, stuff that matters.
A.D. 1965: Jon Katz delivers his famous "I Have A Post-Hellmouth Dream" speech, which stated: "I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the geeks of former slaves and the geeks of former slave geeks will be able to sit down together at the table of geeks... I have a dream that my geek little geeks will one geek live in a nation where they will not be geeked by the geek of their geek but by the geek of their geek."
A.D. 1969: Neil Armstrong becomes the first man to set foot on the moon. His immortal words: "FIRST MOONWALK!!!"
A.D. 1970: Ohio National Guardsmen shoot four students at Kent State University for "Internet theft".
A.D. 1989: The United States invades Panama to capture renowned "hacker" Manual Noriega, who is suspected of writing the DeCSS utility.
A.D. 1990: West Germany and East Germany reunite after 45 years of separation. ESR triumphantly proclaims that Germany "gets it".
A.D. 1994: As years of apartheid rule finally end, Nelson Mandela is elected president of South Africa. ESR is sick, and sadly misses his chance to triumphantly proclaim that South Africa "gets it".
A.D. 1997: Slashdot reports that Scottish scientists have succeeded in cloning a female sheep named Dolly. Numerous readers complain that if they had wanted information on the latest sheep releases, they would have just gone to freshsheep.net
A.D. 1999: Miramax announces Don Knotts to play hacker Emmanuel Goldstein in upcoming movie "Takedown"
I beat the Slashdotting by grabbing this a mere hour ago :-)
The blurb fails to mention the one new feature which makes this release very worthwhile, at least for me... Sound support! You can now have it play a sound on receipt of any incoming mail. Even better, you can use sounds as actions in filters, so you can set it up to not beep at you every 30 seconds when you receive spam or mail list traffic.
Also of note is the increased feeling of polish moving from 1.08. I really can't wait for the 1.4 release when it's ported to Gnome 2.
I used to like Evolution, but after this low blow, I think I might change my mind. How can they add Emacs support and not VI support? Since everyone knows that VI is better than Emacs.
</sarcasm>
"It's nice to know evolution hasn't stopped."
If you try to download it from Kansas, you'll get a 404 telling you that evolution never existed.
I think Evolution is VERY comparable to Outlook. I love some of the features that it has that Outlook lacks. For instance the ability to view HTML formatted mail but not download embedded images off the net. This means no more dot clear images tracking the message and no auto-run scripts doing dirty deeds.
;)
VFolders, a method of storing searches in a folder view format, are very nice. I must confess though, I don't use it much. I only have 5 VFolders configured.
Calendaring and contact management is great too, though I can't speak for Exchange interoperability with the Calendar, I feel confident based on Evolution that the connector would be good too.
As a whole I strongly recommend Evolution. It is an Outlook killer. Unfortunately though, it doesn't forward Melissa, Code-Red, Anna Kourikova, I Love You.....
"Evolution Reaches A New Milestone" I guess that means it can operate its digital watch without any need of aid...
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
They just renamed it "Intelligent Design"
(rim-shot)
Let's try not to let fact interfere with our speculation here, OK?
Isn't it nice when you're having a discussion on IRC about Evolution needing to be ported to GTK2, you Google for the time line and get a post from July saying it'll be worked on after Evolution 1.2.
Then, I thought "well, I'll read the latest months news on the Evolution mailing list" and see this announcement.
Lo and behold, a trip to Slashdot, and what has just been posted.
This all happened between my morning and lunchtime Slashdot reading! Woo, the universe is on fire today. Perhaps if I think about Duke Nukem Forever it'll be out by next Tuesday.
Applause to Ximian for their new release and to the GTK2 developers everywhere. Gnome 2 is turning KDE users' heads.
Try NotePad, pad're ... it comes free-as-beer like mp3 & midi support on every rock-solid WinME system.
"Yeah, innovation never started either cause it's such a ripoff of Outlook. I hope Microsoft sued their hippy asses for all they're worth (i.e. nothing)."
The nice thing about Open Source is that you've got companies like Microsoft who've already done the R&D and QA for you!
Sigh. No. There's nothing about X11 that dictates that. In fact, in many respects, X11 is far more advanced than Windows. It's down to the authors of the application as to whether they want to copy or to innovate. Sadly with Evolution, they seem to mostly be going for the former, but that's their choice. If Ximian were targeting Windows instead of X11, I'm sure they'd still be bringing out essentially the same product.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
I see Evolution as a great example that open-source cannot be end-all solution to the world's software problems. A big reason is usability: open-source doesn't have the resources to research and develop effective UI. Usability experts, consumer studies, prototype testing and well-designed feedback loops are all needed to design user interfaces that are intuitive and efficient.
It takes for-profit companies, with a lot of money to throw at the problem, to design original and effective UI's. Evolution neatly copies Microsoft Outlook's user experience. It's a good thing that MS put all that work into designing the UI, and didn't give Ximian any guff over using it.
From the cover-my-ass dept: I'll admit that there are some exceptions. But by and large, the UI on open-source sucks unless they are copied from for-profit software, such as Outlook (for Evolution), NEXTStep or Windows (for various Window Managers), Wordperfect/MSWord (various word processors). And before somebody says that you don't need UI--Random J User cannot effectively use text-console programs without a lot of training.
Too bad evolution has been -- for me -- one of the most unstable apps I've ever used. It breaks due to dependency problems (wombat, bonobo, gconf, etc.) every time I upgrade something via red-carpet. At this moment, I can't even start evolution due to some stupid dependency problem that's not adequately explained in any docs, error messages, or mail lists I've been able to find. I could never recommend it to a friend.
Good thing I prefer pine configured to use vi as its composer anyway.
http://primates.ximian.com/~aaron/doing/evo-osx.ht ml
I think this doc is a few months old, but at least, with some effort, evolution has been run on OSX by at least one guy. he did have to build it from scratch, though, and says that it isn't "for the faint of heart" *support*, yes, is another thing ... i wouldn't hold my breath, but I know several ximian people with macs, so maybe they'll get frustrated and do it ;-)
Neccitating building from the ground up mayhaps?
Ok put it this way;
implementing window transparency support in, err, Windows, is ONE LINE OF CODE (namely an API call.
Actual programs to do something with this (put a UI around it and all that) can take up, oh, 5 or 6 kilobytes of code compiled.
Heh.
The API call is stable, it has been there since Windows 2000, it is not going anywheres anytime soon, though developers who don't mind pissing off Windows 2000 customers (which they should be mindful of. ^_^ ) can even use hardware acceleration for some of the GUI elements.
About the only thing that X-11 seems to give to developers is some damn fine networking material. Now I will grant that Windows, err, sucks when it comes to remote usage. It sucks and it sucks horribly. 128kbit is not enough. 256kbit is not enough. Quite frankly I do not know the minimum bandwidth that IS enough, Netmeeting sucks. A lot. Heh. But it does its job, more or less. On occasion.
But cruddo, anything else? Want to play a video in a window? Sound? Music? Heck just shoving GUI elements together even. Things integrate with less seems and less work then they do on X-11.
The reason for this should be quite obvious. The Windows API sucked for the longest time. Heck it was revised a few times and came out sucking even MORE.
But MS is nothing else if not persistent. They kept at it until they had something usable on their hands. Usable AND modern (more or less.
X-11, err, well. Heh. There isn't much actually to it. . . . It is not very close to the hardware, which is a good thing for portability, but it makes creating a consistent user experience all that much harder.
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
.. Evo 1.2 has been announced on Ximian's website for quite a few hours, and has even made it to FootNotes, but..
...
Neither gnome.org or ximian's FTP servers carry the source, whether tarball or src.rpm. Oversight in a moment of excitement, or company policy? I sure hope it's the latter.
Oh, and CVS for evolution-1-2-branch is already bumped up to 1.2.0.99, so obviously they have had the time to release the source
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
(Pay no attention to the trolls. They're probably just 15 year old immature boys).
I've used pine for the last 8 years, and it's a great program. I still consider it easier-to-use then Evolution. I've switched between Pine and Evolution a dozen times in the last 2 years. My fingers still autotype the Pine keybindings.
Several things that Evolution has over Pine:
- It's not just an email program. It's also a Contact Manager (Pine only has an addressbook), a Calendaring program, and a Todo list.
- Pine does not display message threads very well
- More intuitive message filters
- Simpler to setup multiple mail accounts
- It displays HTML and Graphics appropriately. My friends/coworkers keep sending me HTML email (HTML can be useful in email sometimes), and Pine munges 1/5 of the messages...
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
"
The nice thing about Open Source is that you've got companies like Microsoft who've already done the R&D and QA for you!"
-1, Troll
Oh come on guys, it's a joke. Laugh.
Evolution is one of those pieces of OSS, that you can point at and say: "OSS can deliver, there, eat this". It belongs to the group of amazing projects like Apache, Samba and Mozilla if you ask me. Now if we had some great multimedia programs (MPlayer is getting close though).
Here's a link to the User's Guide and to What's New.
Fun things:
mmmmmmmm...... Signature Editor
sounds on mail arrival!!
i'm the sysadmin for a group of developers. we all run redhat 8.0 and i want to stay with .rpm packages that utilize standard redhat 8.0 libraries.
we usually use RHN (RedHat Network) for keeping our packages up to date, but i have a feeling it's going to be a long, long time before Redhat incorporates this new Evolution into their package list.
anyone have any ideas what i can do to get this new Evolution running on our Redhat 8.0 machines without having to deviate from our current upgrade strategy?
when people can import their outlook data files (.pst files etc) complete with calender, contacts lists, tasks and of course email.
I *know* one can export outlook data files to imap (uh, correct me if I'm using the wrong acronym there) and then re-import them to unix mail format (theres a howto on this), but, importantly;
this causes *EVERYTHING* to appear as an email item, including calender entries, contacts lists everything comes across as a piece of email. Which I regard as a lot less than useful...
Some might say thats better than nothing, I say *phhfft*
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
I use XP's Remote Desktop over a dsl connection quite regularly. In school, I used X remotely (again, over a dsl connection). Subjectively, I think that Remote Desktop is quite a bit smoother. I can't quote specific numbers or anything, but I'm much happier with the responsiveness and ease of use of RD over X.
X is still more versatile (I don't think one Windows box can have more than one RD connection to it at once), but MS is catching up.
This is version 1.1, not 1.2. From a useability standpoint shouldn't evolution's delete function like most other e-mail clients?
"Oh come on guys, it's a joke. Laugh. "
... Outlook! Heh.
It's a lot funnier when you look at the Outlook-esque interface of Evolution and then compare it to
"Derp de derp."
i love pine. been using it for about 3 years now. i've tried mozilla mail, sylpheed, evolution, kmail. pine spanks them all. and slrn for news (:
Slackware, the quicker booter-upper
Err? I was using Entourage for quite a bit of POP and IMAP stuff. Now, I wasn't using Exchange at the same time, which may have been an issue. I've had that problem with Outlook on Windows as well. My solution was to setup multiple profiles for Outlook: Work (Exchange) and Home (POP3 x 2, IMAP x 2). I'm not sure if Entourage supports that. Now, though, I'm using Mail.app, so.. err, well, no point really.
Can you run visual basic scripts on Evolution mail on exchange? (Or some other scripting language)
:>
One of the things I do when my email gets too big, run a vb script that saves all attachments. Then deletes the attachment from the email. I can take a 100meg folder and reduce it to 5 megs. Currently I have a few mailing lists and that plus normal work email its easy to get about 30 megs of email a day. (hourly statistics, office docs, etc)
Can you administrate permissions on your outlook folders and mailing lists with evolution mail? (exchange compatible question again)
We have a few emailing lists for vendors/interal departments/etc, and I need to be able to add/remove them.
Also we give permission to our folders when we are on vacation, so people can scan for any customer who emailed us directly without going to the correct support email address. (Ya, customers would never do that would they?)
Rich format or just html for email?
I know when I'm trying to work with someone its nice to highlight some instructions in yellow, or key parts. Rich Text is very handy for that. I guess html would be ok, but I tend to stay away from that in outlook.
Meeting options?
I saw the screenshot of the meeting availability option, does that work with exchange's availability meeting info?
Netmeeting (for meetings)
Some of our meetings are spread around the US, so we use netmeeting so people can watch the powerpoint slideshow. Also a few of us can work on a document at the same time, or watch someone give a demo. All the netmeeting info is included in the email, the user just has to click and view. (That is still confusing for some people...)
Recall emails.
Can you recall an email after you sent it? I see people doing that all the time, i normally turn it off so they cant recall and hide the evidence.
PST files.
I'm currently using office undervmware. But I share my configs/rules/etc on a windows share, so I can boot into winxp when I want the extra speed (laptops are slow..), when I need to work on very large excel spreadsheets.
Hell, one of the reasonsI can use Koffice/OO/SO is sometimes they use =hex2dec office addins, or other nonstandard stuff.
-
You can go a long way with a smile. You can go a lot farther with a smile and a gun. - Al Capone (1899 - 1947)
"With pine I can use all the keyboard shortcuts I'm used to. To each his^H^H^Hher own, I guess."
Is that why you're using ctrl+6+h instead of a backspace key?
Well, actually until the hardware vendors support linux as they do windows, X11 will be behind the times. My box is a gaming/work box, so I have to dual boot.
New gfx cards are hardly supported by Xfree, and even the CVS takes a while to catch up. And (OpenGL/DRM/etc) takes longer for X11.
I dont even consider X usable on the network, tightvnc or remote desktop does a better job at that.
I use evo for IMAP at home and school, and have encountered period instability. I have 1.2 installed and so far no real problems, although the now-famous Emacs bindings don't seem to work. I've heard horror stories from friends, though, claiming it messed up their contacts. I'm afraid to try the sound support.
Btw, anyone know if there will eventually be newsgroup support? That's the one feature that keeps me bouncing back to mozilla.
So long, and thanks for all the Phish
imap is fixed in that it won't download your whole folder list in a nasty infinate loop by default.
There's also a global pref's option, instead of different options depending upon what 'folder' your viewing.
still isn't QT though, I might have to port the ui!
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
I find it odd that you would clone Outlook and then not be able to import the files that Outlook uses. I mean no matter what Ximian says, Evolution IS an Outlook clone for linux users.
Without the ability to import PST files they are completely ignoring the very users which they are trying to attract. Unless of course they aren't interested in those users, which I would have a hard time believing considering how the program has been designed.
More on Evolution itself, I think besides the PST thing, its a fantastic program. Compared to the early versions, it launches and closes in a reasonable period of time. It's good looking and really I think is without a doubt the best opensource "full-featured" email/Pim every made.
One thing I also wonder about is a win32 port of the program. Just like OpenOffice eases the transition because you can get started on a windows version first, so would a windows version of Evolution. I know, easier said then done, but its something to think about.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
You can go directly to the release notes here..
I want to support Ximian, but I have no need to buy their products directly. However, does Ximian receive money from the packaging of Evolution with Redhat? I paid $40 for my shiny new RH8, I wonder if any of that money made it's way into the pockets of other FOSS companies?
I hate to feed the trolls, but debian unstable has xfree 4.2.1 as a quick look at the xfree86 package page would reveal.
Actually it's in testing as well.
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Hmmm....
"its nice to see that Evolution hasn't stopped"
And when I clicked on the link, I got an ad for Helix DNA.....
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
thanks.
I think you're absolutely right. (This is getting off topic but since this entire thread formed here anyway I might as well say something about that...)
...well usable)"
There are a lot of people who think that:
- "No, OSS GUI interfaces are not broken, they are in fact superior (just not
- "X is so much more advanced" when it is in fact a pain in the ass and slow as hell even when used over what it is made for - network connections.
- "By the way text mode is the way to the future, GUI is for faggots" which I think doesn't need any further comment
- "Linux has sooo *not* a dependency hell but Windows has" ignoring the fact that Linux libraries situation (source and compiled objects alike) is totally out of hand because often times you can't even run two apps alongside because they need different versions
- "Linux software installation is just so smooth" when in reality one can install even complicated apps on Windows and OSX within mere minutes while on Linux you are lucky if it takes under 2 hours to get something running.
Now, all this is not neccessarily a bad sign for the state of the OSS developer community, if people would just *recognize* the problems and try to fix them in the future. But sadly nobody seems to care, quite on the contrary. Everyone pointing out these problems will be marked "flamebait" disregarding the fact that a well meaning wake-up call often originates from a friendly corner.
Contrary to popular belief in the linux community, Microsoft is actually one of the software companies most frequently criticized by usability professionals. They are the most frequent inductee in the Interface Hall of ShameJust because they've got more money than some industrialized nations doesn't mean they aren't capable of cranking out some horrendously bad designs. If Microsoft had effective usability, they never would have come out with Window-in-Window MDI, multi-row tabs, or any of the other atrocities they've released over the years. Unfortunately, Open Source Software has incorporated more than their fair share of these stupid designs in the mistaken belief that microsoft knew what they were doing.
A developer community is only successful in areas where they have very strong beliefs and values that are advantageous. Linux has succeeded so well on the server because the linux development community had very strong values regarding security and stability, and these sorts of values were advantageous on the server. Unfortunately, linux people are unix people, and unix people have had a long standing tradition of calling end-users stupid, telling them to go RTFM, and decrying the field of usability as BS and usability folks as "whiners".
Who'd want to do usability for free for people who say things like:
Open Source doesn't need money to improve usability. It needs an attitude adjustment.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
Oh yeah, forgot to say, Havoc Pengington is EVIL!
Havoc Penington, the bane of my Linux desktop.
TightVNC is in my experience just a tad wee bit slower then remote desktop for Windows to Windows connections. 800x600@8bit color over a 128kbit upstream 1.5Mbit downstream.
I guess I should try it again now that I am at 256kbit upsteam, but for some reason I doubt it will be too much better, remote desktop did not improve much. . . .
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
Yeah, I think the final switche happened when I needed a good program to maintain my contact list, and an easy way to send email to people in the contact list.
So, it was either Pine + some ascii contact list + perl scripts , or it was evolution.
And then I needed a todo list that was integrated with a calendar...
Now all I need is for my Calendar to connect to various iCal or other calendar servers, and for my todo list to integrate with Bugzilla, and I'm set!
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
I've been using the beta version of 1.2 for a week or so. Here are my thoughts:
1)The searches are considerably faster.
I'm a big pine fan, but evolution won me over on the basis of a single feature: the ability to search large folders quickly. I know it's possible to grep a mail directory, and I've even done so in the past, but the ease (and speed) of searches in evolution is so much greater that it effectively gives you a capability you didn't have before. This is astoundingly useful. For example, if I search my mail folder (28,776 messages) for "crackbaby," it takes 7 seconds to find the single message containing that word (somehow, I'm saddened that it was so few.)
As long as searches keep getting faster, evolution will keep getting better.
2)Bringing up new windows still takes a while, especially when the program has been running for a few days.
3)I'm a little disgusted by the fact that they've changed the key for going to the next unread message from 'n' to '.'. From what I've read on the developer's list, this was a big item of debate, and was ultimately won by the camp that wants the interface to be as natural for Outlook users as possible. It still sucks for us pine guys.
3)Nitpicking, but they need to add a keyboard shortcut for "Reply to List." As I understand Ximian's strategy, a large portion of the audience they target (at least for Connector sales) are the professionals who need to have two computers on their desk -- Linux to do all their work, Microsoft for things like email & word processing. Just my own opinion, but I'd expect such people to be disproportionately subscribed to high-volume lists. (Anybody with better information than my own, please respond).
All in all, I see 1.2 as a nice improvement, except for one or two nitpicks. Keep it up, Ximian!
I still use pine when I am dialed in, but when I am at work I have been running Evolution for about 8 months.
I guess I never got attached enough to the pine shortcuts to miss them, and some things (e.g. looking up several recipients from an LDAP address book) are much faster from Evo than from pine.
I have to say that Evolution is one fantastic application. I have been keeping up-to-date using Ximian Red Carpet, and I haven't had a problem the entire time. Kudos to the Ximian Evo hackers.
Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
What we really need is a large forum for communicating User Interface ideas to programmers. The problem with OSS is that it tends to expect /everybody/ to be able to pick up the code and remove the horrible from apps. This just isnt the case. /normal/ users, not programmers, not even just people who prefer OSS, just users of programs to, basically, complain. Until the OSS Community has a real and good forum for complaining, we arent going to see programmers taking notice and fixing things like UI problems.
It's true, we can't afford consultants and experts to tell us what 70% of potential customers would like to see, but we do have this whole internet out there, and something should be done to harvest the feedback.
Not saying that no options are out there right now, only that the current options arent working, and there needs to be better ways for
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
Well, duh, check out his first name! :)
:)
( just kidding, Havoc - I have no idea if you're evil or not. But seriously - what's your _middle_ name?
I'm thinking 11/11/11 would be a good guess...
I live in a giant bucket.
Seriouslly, it's more efficient to code in something like ocaml, or ruby (with critical parts in C/C++) than in a "low" level language such as plain C.
But, anyone is free to spent its own time as one wishes, so I won't complain.
Regarding the direccion taken by the developers, it's of course sad if they wont listen to some users, but this being free software, anyone could fork the code. That's why I don't think this situation is such a tragedy.
Personally I do like evolution, but at any rate prefer the whole kde desktop than gnome's.
You, frankly, are a tard. Complaining that X doesn't do audio and whatnot is like complaining that the GDI doesn't do audio. You get all those fancy features (except for Window transparency, which as yet to be used as anything more than eye candy) if you use something comparable to Win32, like Qt or GTK+ and the necessary open source libraries like lib XML. True, it's not integrated like Win32, but who gives a flying fuck? If googling for 20 minutes to find the best library for a particular task is too much of a time drain, you're working on some *very* trivial projects. The upside, though, is it allows competing implementations, which leads to better implementations overall. Just compare the APIs today. UNIX has a bunch of fragmented, but high quality APIs. Win32 is integrated, but still sucks.
PS> And Windows remote desktop works just fine over my 1.5/384kbps DSL line (usably, 256 kbps).
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Also you can get a new version of Red Carpet that works with the newer distributions, guess you want a list:
:).
Mandrake 9.0
Redhat 8.0
SuSE 8.1
Thats it for now, but sure does make the job of getting Evolution simpler. Not to mention the eventual release of all the other goodies
StarTux
Wonderful. They take an email client, and add emacs key bindings, thinking all of us emacs users will switch over. Why switch to Evolution when we have an email client, a newsreader, a web browser, a text editor, a blender, and a kitchen sink in one 20MB tarball? If I want to use emacs-style bindings for my email, I'll use emacs, thank you very much :).
The question is *. The solution is emacs.
Slashdot is a waste of time. I enjoy wasting time.
on my RedHat 7.3 system, just as another datapoint.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Looking at the Makefile in FreeBSD ports I don't see any such options --disable-calendar, etc.
I just need a good X email client that will handle HTML good and put the red underline on mispelled words. Like KMail with that feature would be fine. Even better Eudora for X. Eudora is my favorite client.
Oh well I guess my search continues or I break down and install evolution with added features I don't need.
Understanding is a three-edged sword. -- Kosh Naranek
utter rubbish
- "No, OSS GUI interfaces are not broken, they are in fact superior (just not ...well usable)"
obviously trolling
- "X is so much more advanced" when it is in fact a pain in the ass and slow as hell even when used over what it is made for - network connections.
It is network transparent with complexity costs. And yes, this does mean its more advanced.
- "By the way text mode is the way to the future, GUI is for faggots" which I think doesn't need any further comment
obviously trolling: the right tool for the job; nobody does Computational Visualization work without graphics
- "Linux has sooo *not* a dependency hell but Windows has" ignoring the fact that Linux libraries situation (source and compiled objects alike) is totally out of hand because often times you can't even run two apps alongside because they need different versions
which means they aren't from the same distribution versions...i had to ditch my CDBurner's software when I upgraded to w2k...oh well
- "Linux software installation is just so smooth" when in reality one can install even complicated apps on Windows and OSX within mere minutes while on Linux you are lucky if it takes under 2 hours to get something running.
depends on what your doing: apt-get is the sweetest updater i've *ever* used, rpm is coming along (grpmi looks sweet), and if you stay within your distribution its mostly a no-brainer as long as hardware doesn't bite your butt, which mandrake seems to have a handle on with autoprobing
We do have issues to resolve, but I'd hate to give up Xfree when Moore's law seems to suggest the cost/benifit will be ever lessening and just as network transparancy could really start being useful.
While what you say about GConf reassures me about it in some ways. It is still a central repostiory of keys and values. That alone reminds me way too much of the registery. Even with comments it is still a pain. Another serious problem is when many developers say Oh, I think 1% of users will use this option so you will have to set it in GConf instead of the application. I think that is really wrong. Especially since most of the time what they think is 1% is really like 25%.
Of course GConf isn't nearly as horrible as the new menu system which is just god awful.
Havoc Penington, the bane of my Linux desktop.
http://www.cyberus.ca/~phoenix/outport/
which exports Calendar,Contacts, and Tasks to Evolution.
That just leaves doing the manual mail part via Mozilla.
I guess that works, but its still a bit messy and not really appealing except for individual users. Its still better than nothing though I suppose.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
... for using my markup!
The cease and desist letter is on its way, chump, pray that your lawyer is as slimey and petty as mine!
I might as well say something on topic that may be of interest. I use Evolution as my primary email application at home, and love it. It has features that has allowed me to kiss Outlook goodbye, and the PDA conduits to sync up the calendar etc with my Palm are fantastic. I wish there was better GnomeCard importation/integration support (I'm having a hell of a time getting Evo 1.08 to import GnomeCard entries synced from my Palm correctly), I've yet to try 1.2 so maybe this issue is resolved. Anyone try this out?
Until one of two things happens (my office migrates to Exchange 2000 or Ximian releases older Exchange server support) I won't be able to use Evolution in the corporate environment, but I intend to as soon as it is feasible.
And now, a treat for those of you with mod points to get rid of...
Guide to Moderators:
1. Sarcastic DMCA references are not funny enought o earn modding up on their own, but are still above Domo-Kun/Kitten references in the 'net cliche scale
2. Use of "pray" and "lawyer" in the same sentence is worth "+1 Isn't it ironic?"
3. Meta-reference to bad Alanis song in Guide to Moderators is worth "-1 Bad taste in music"
4. Lack of beowulf cluster, Linux, or anti-Microsoft comments are worth "-1 off meta-topic"
5. Including of "beowulf cluster, Linux, or anti-Microsoft" comments in Guide are worth "+1 Insightful" for cutting commentary on sociology of Slashdot
6. Guide itself is worth "-1 Offtopic" for the obvious reasons
Thank you for choosing EvilAlien.
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'
... its just legally bound to share science classroom time with 'intelligent design theory' in the ohio classroom.
members are seeing something, your seeing an ad
So I'm using kmail right now...kind of annoying in ways...but not too bad. I'm very receptive to using a new email client. Their site wasn't incredibly clear - does anyone consider evolution to be be significantly better than kmail? Anyone used both?
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Yes, happened to me too: calender crashed, and contact list completely whiped away.
Do the following:
exit evolution
killev
restart evolution
Now everything works and you have your contacts back end the calender works.
Tino Meinen
On a related note....
l
Ximian red-carpet is available for Red Hat 8.0, Mandrake 9.0, or SuSE 8.1 at http://ximian.com/products/redcarpet/download.htm
>>>he can't use Evolution because you can't edit existing message and resave them
It's not really a saved email message if you edit and resave it. Few people have the need to edit a saved email message especially from within the email client.
You can edit the Calendar and todo elements from within Evolution. If that's not enough, have you entered your request into bugzilla? That way others could support your idea if it's a good idea.
And then there's always the commandline... the files are right there, and they are plain text. Might screw up the metadata if you make too many large edits, but most email clients will have similar problems.
But really, don't expect Ximian to support every obscure feature request out there.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
Thanks for the warning. I'm about to install Linux on my workstation for the first time, you saved me the trouble of downloading the new version of Evolution and seeing if the how-to instructions given elsewhere on the thread work just barely in time.
Everybody has a different style of working. I use one of my e-mail folders as a notebook and add discrete entries by sending myself e-mail. I frequently have to update those entries.
If they're never going to support something I use, why bother with Ximian?
Tech Public Policy stuff
Plus, its the only thing that could make outlook express safe!
(Except pulling the plug on the network connection)
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
1) I don't want to have to receive everyone's full calendar by email in order to search for free time (when not using Exchange). Last I checked there was a way to enter the URL of someone else's calendar, but no instructions in the manual on how to format the calendar on the web/ftp site. And certainly nothing about how to put it up there. Put some WebDAV hooks into Evo and let an Apache server act as a "calendar hub".
2) Would be nice to sync my calendar with Yahoo! That's what keeps my wife on Windows.
3) Perhaps a plugin API for syncing to address books on cellphones.
That's all for now. I can't move until those work. Pine and Yahoo! until then.
Intelligent Life on Earth
Number 1: I could not find the CVS tag for the release itself, only the release branch
Number 2: autogen.sh from the CVS branch does not run cleanly on RH8.
The source is now available, yes, but it was not so for quite a few hours after release.
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steven.obrien2/index. html
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=gnome&m=1010157075 21446&w=2
http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley/1596/en/c ygwin.html
Unfortunately, I don't see any new efforts at a port of Evolution to Windows, but as it improves folks will start to demand it everywhere they are.
Mac OSX users are much more lucky -- they can get Evolution right now. Fink lists it as a ported app.
It would be nice to have a Windows CD with all X apps so that folks can see that *nix systems aren't usually text-based or some ugly form of CDE. Till then, I've found the boot CD and full Debian distributionKnoppix to be an ideal introduction. Blew the socks off of a admin I showed it to who didn't know it was possible, and impressed others who like the idea of Linux but can't be bothered with actually learning anything (kids, job, wife, do the math).
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
I am getting headaches trying to give cheap calendar sharing in outlook xp since you cant do netfolders anymore :
Can Evolution do something similar to netfolders or easily do contact list and cal. sharing?
The ultimate network admin tool needs HELP!
Actually its not free at all. You must pay for the whole OS first. Notepad is not bad in itself but it cannot be purchased separatly. Although i have found it IS the perfect program to write your code and compile later with an external compiler. And nothing can beat windows explorer to organize all your source/header files.
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
The point of UIForge as opposed to regular forums would be organization. "Sorting through thousands of suggestions" would be replaced with a few dozen or hundred suggestions grouped together by what they say.
If you can get perl to do your sorting for you, it's not nearly as bad.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
I've been reading about them in the news a lot lately
Creationists are a lot like zombies. Slow, but powerful and numerous. And they all want to eat our brains.