Posted by
ryuzaki0
on from the my-first-love dept.
wasaty writes "Yesterday new PINE came out. Main new feature is (at last!) threading support. Look here for a full list of changes." Ah, my first "real" e-mail program; watching it change is like watching evolution in motion.
My school added an "amazing new webmail feature" this year, but I really wasn't that impressed with it. The sad thing is that they probably paid some company for the webmail app, even though you can download several different ones at freshmeat.net for free.
Anyway, the point is that PINE is still used today even though many consider it antiquated. For people like myself who know all the shortcuts and don't mind an all-text interface, it's superb.
So, PINE is certainly not dead, and many of us still use it on occasion when away from the office. It's much faster than VNCing into your home box and using Outlook.
Re:Still useful
by
Fweeky
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
When you're on the go, give PINE a call;-)
Or mutt, which doesn't have such a large history of security holes, and which has had basic features like threading for years:P
Re:Still useful
by
coryboehne
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Really, when I'm on a *nix box I prefer to use Pine over ANY other option.... I actually enjoy the somewhat antiquated interface (reminds me of the good ol' days when that was the only option) and I love the fact that it is super fast.
I can't really understand the reason to add threading support... It's kinda like putting a bigger engine in a Corvette without putting more rubber on the ground.. It's a waste really, the program is so fast already with such low overhead that I have never had any problems with speed... Maybe I'm just missing something and there really is a great reason for this... I just don't see it.
Oh well though, great to see that it is still being maintained by someone, and that there are others out there that care about the wonderful program known to all as PINE.
Re:Still useful
by
FFFish
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
And which is now the default email client for my university; they tossed Pine the other week because it's a security risk...
--
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
Re:Still useful
by
coryboehne
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Duh, damn programmer mindset getting me into trouble again....
Now that I look at it again I realize that they don't mean the kind of threading I was thinking about, they mean theading as in nesting.... D'Oh!
Dearest Moderators: This is not flamebait, I am replying to myself to acknoledge that I made a stupid mistake.... thank you.
Re:Still useful
by
Chicane-UK
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
Indeed...
I implemented a Web Mail system where I work this year for students - downloaded for free from horde.org. Its a very powerful system and is currently serving 30,000 student accounts on a mid priced Dell server.
But back onto the topic, I have tried quite a few email applications in my time - the college where I work has recently just phased out out old POP3 Linux mail server in favour of an Exchange 2000 server. To be fair, it has been pretty good so far.
But Pine has to be one of my very favourite email apps - small, quick, and very easy to use. I even found that Windows users with no experience of *nix could get to grips with Pine pretty quickly, which is no mean feat.
I'll make sure I download this version:)
-- "Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
Well, pardon me if I'm wrong... but if you are fond of all-text interface (+aalib for viewing attached images, etc.:-) as I am and if you were really willing to learn _all_ the kbd shortcuts in pine, then mutt (and NOT pine) is the right client for you. Mutt has had threading support for _ages_, it is a much more powerful tool and the kbd shortcuts are IMHO more logical, especially to someone used to work with Linux and the editor vim.
I hated (some) of the keybindings in mutt -- luckily it's pretty trivial to rebind them.
I now control 90% of all my mutt usage from the cursor keys. Right goes into a mbox, then into a mail, then into a list of the parts of a mail, then into individual parts which weren't displayed inline. Left goes in the other direction, and up/down do what you'd expect.
Numpad '0' (bound to next unread message), PageUp/Dn and 'r' make up most of the other 10%:)
Re:Still useful
by
SquadBoy
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Damned straight. I love my mutt. The one big reason is that I can SSH to my box from anywhere and get my mail. Mutt does in fact rule and it is also free as in speech.:)
--
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics.
Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
Re:Still useful
by
minektur
·
· Score: 2, Informative
The short answer to your question is: procmail.
I get about 400 email a day -- several mailing lists that I occasionaly browse, personal, work, etc.
procmail puts them all in different inboxes, and pine lets me just check the inboxes that I feel like looking at...
Re:Still useful
by
Jucius+Maximus
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
"My school added an "amazing new webmail feature" this year, but I really wasn't that impressed with it. The sad thing is that they probably paid some company for the webmail app, even though you can download several different ones at freshmeat.net for free."
It will still save them money because they will get significantly fewer calls from people who don't know how to set up pop3 and smtp in their Outbreak Express. My univ. also introduced one of these and it is pretty convenient. Click a quick shortcut in mozilla and enter uid/pass as opposed to starting telnet session, connect to mail server, start pine, go to inbox...
The sad thing is that they probably paid some company for the webmail app, even though you can download several different ones at freshmeat.net for free.
Well, I think you're wrong, because Bucknell is using Horde/IMP, which is opensource, and is used by 99% of schools because it's $free$.
I'm seeing a lot of posts in this thread basically saying "I use lots of different computers and I can access PINE anywhere -- who needs web mail?"
The problem is with security. There are two ubiquitous tools on almost any computer: a telnet client, and a web browser. In fact, computers rarely have ssh clients installed. So if you want to access PINE remotely, you must telnet in, and I don't need to explain why that's bad.
Alternatively, web mail can be setup with https, and I'd be much more comfortable checking my email when I visit my friend in Europe (for instance) via https, rather than telnet. Of course, _any_ option is a security risk when you're using a public terminal (in a library of internet cafe, say), but if you trust the computer you're using, webmail via https is safer than pine via telnet. And it's easier than installing putty on every computer you want to check email from.
Jason.
Re:Still useful
by
spacey
·
· Score: 3, Informative
pine and mutt can both work over an IMAP or IMAPS connection, which means that you don't have to give them local shell access if you know how to set up a virtual host setup.
Good stuff for security. No ssh, no telnet, less web (most have mildly horrible interfaces).
Yes, the problem is security, though my stance is opposite yours.
I refuse to run any sort of webmail solution on my mail server for security reasons. I am far more comfortable with users accessing their mailboxes with Kerberos or TLS encrypted IMAP and SMTP connections use specially installed and configured software than letting them login from any web browser in the world.
Do you trust that each random system with a web broswer your users are logging in from does not have a keyboard sniffer or trojan installed?
daeley% ping www.mutt.org PING mutt.org (194.70.126.33): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 194.70.126.33: icmp_seq=0 ttl=233 time=163.774 ms 64 bytes from 194.70.126.33: icmp_seq=1 ttl=233 time=163.453 ms 64 bytes from 194.70.126.33: icmp_seq=2 ttl=233 time=165.473 ms 64 bytes from 194.70.126.33: icmp_seq=3 ttl=233 time=163.528 ms 64 bytes from 194.70.126.33: icmp_seq=4 ttl=233 time=164.787 ms
With the Slashdotting of the poor mutt.org server officially underway, I believe the phrase 'screwed the pooch' is applicable here.;)
A binary of mutt precompiled for Mac OS X is available here, but I want to see if mutt.org has anything newer.
-- I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
Re:Still useful
by
Cadre
·
· Score: 3, Informative
So if you want to access PINE remotely, you must telnet in, and I don't need to explain why that's bad.
S/Key support is in most modern Unixes. S/Key + Telnet is very safe. And unless you use PGP (which I'm going to make a wild guess that you probably don't) you can't complain that people can read your unencrypted session and see your email.
Also, Java SSH clients that work in web browsers are a dime a dozen. Just check Freshmeat.
One last thing S/Key + Telnet is far less risky than https at a public terminal to the point that it's very acceptable and quite convenient.
-- All editorial writers ever do is come down from the hill after the battle is over and shoot the wounded.
Re:Still useful
by
gallir
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
can't really understand the reason to add threading support... It's kinda like putting a bigger engine in a Corvette without putting more rubber on the ground.. It's a waste really, the program is so fast already with such low overhead that I have never had any problems with speed... Maybe I'm just missing something and there really is a great reason for this... I just don't see it.
Bad, bad, moderators:-). He is not a troll, he's a moron.
It doesn't mean anything like "POSIX Threads. "Threads in Pine" means "message threading", you know, that magic thing that sort and "join" related messages. As my answer to you, here in/.
I've been doing threading in pine for quite a while. You just need to apply the threading patch which is available from various sources on the internet (like http://www.math.washington.edu/~chappa/pine/info/f ancy.html. I've always wondered why the mainline pine didn't integrate it.
-- For every post, there is an equal and opposite re-post.
MindTerm was initially a GPLed product, and continued that way for a little over three years. Around the time that support for SSH2 was added, the people behind MindTerm started going more and more commercial (changing from MindBright to AppGate), and when MindTerm 2.0 was released, it was released as a purely commercial product, with no source code included.
However, on the positive side, another company, ISNetworks, has (somewhat) continued development of MindTerm 1.2.1 (the last GPLed version), making a few enhancements and updates. You can find their version at http://www.isnetworks.com/ssh/. You can also find stock releases of MindTerm 1.2.1 floating around on the web and ftp sites, or if you're running Debian, 'apt-get install mindterm'.
MindTerm is a really nifty little tool, as it allows you full SSH/SCP access to a host from any web browser, just by dropping the Java Applet in a web accessible spot on the host. I've been using it for years, and still make frequent use of it.
-- Topher
Re:Still useful
by
Combuchan
·
· Score: 4, Informative
If I'm ever trapped at the library or foreign language lab here at my local community college and have to accomplish something more productive than studying or listening to the instructor, I always download PuTTY, a free Win32 SSH client.
The good thing about PuTTY is that the downloable.EXE is the entire program. There's no installer and thus the application can be run from even the most locked down of machines with little difficulty.
PuTTY is also super-stable (has never crashed on me, and Notepad can't even say that) and it's GPL'd. Go PuTTY!
-- "[T]he single essential element on which all discoveries will be dependent is human freedom." -- Barry Goldwater
You misunderstood threading support. It refers to threading messages and not program threads. This way related messages are kept together just like the threading here on slashdot.
-- A musician without the RIAA, is like a fish without a bicycle.
I actually enjoy the somewhat antiquated interface
Then you'd really love the program I use to read mail -- I use/bin/mail. I have become one of those old computing dinosaurs that I used to laugh at when I was younger.
(Well, I use/bin/mail for the first pass at reading my mail, then I use rmail in emacs for the second pass to file everything more permanently.)
> Oy the idiosy. Why are people obsessed with using pipes frivolously? > more/var/spool/mail/$USER
There is a good reason for using "cat" in this way. If you are using "more" directly as you suggest, then if someone else logged in on the same machine uses the command "w" to see what everone else is doing, they will see that you are reading your mail spool file directly, and either (a) laugh at you for being such a unix geek, or (b) realize that you are someone they can ask all their dumb unix questions. On the other hand, if you are using "cat" as the previous poster suggested, anyone else doing "w" will simply see that you are running "more", but won't know what you are reading with "more".
(And yes, of course anyone who knows enough to be familiar with the "ps" command will know what you are doing either way.)
Well, maybe not, but seriously, distributing modified binaries of pine is illegal, which really cramps my style;-). There are other mail readers I would reccomened over pine, namely mutt, or elm, spruce, sylpheed, or balsa, all of which are Free as in speech.
Re:Pine is EVIL!!!
by
Servo
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Not entirely. I used to maintain PINE for Debian quite some time ago.
Because it wasn't entirely "free as in speech", it was required to go into the non-free section. Unless they've drastically changed the license since I last paid any attention to it, it required:
1) Modified versions were required to be designated with a L (iirc) after the version number to signal they had been changed before compiling.
2) You are not allowed to sell the binaries, or distribute them on a "for sale" media.
3) Permission is required before distributing the binaries.
The big deal with Debian was that it could not be included in the normal section because of #2, and I think the powers that be at the time were pissed off at #3 as well. At the time I was managing PINE for Debian, practically all of the other distro's included a compiled version of PINE. It pissed me off because the controlling group within Debian didn't want to work out a deal with UW to allow Pine to be distributed as a normal package within Debian.
FYI, this was back when Bruce Peren's had his weekly temper tantrums and threaten to go work for Redhat instead.
-- A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin
Ah, I see. Good info, thanks for clearing that up.
Re:Pine is EVIL!!!
by
WzDD
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
> Not entirely. I used to maintain PINE for
> Debian quite some time ago.
Ah, I was wondering what the maintainer thought about the whole situation.:-)
I'm maintaining Pine for a programming society at my university, and I encountered a fair bit of resistance of the "It's not Free enough" variety. While people may certainly choose to believe this, my reading of license indicated to me that it was permissible to do what I was doing - ie, compile it from source, perhaps even make local changes, as long as I changed the version number. I often wondered why the Debian Pine installer - which downloads the source, applies patches, compiles and makes a local.deb - disappeared. It's nice - I guess - to know that the reason is as I suspected: ideological, rather than due to any legitimate legal concerns.
Well, slow motion... sometimes it's hard to imagine what they could possibly have done to Pine to enhance it over what I used to use on the old Auburn University VAX's so many years ago, but then again I can't think of any other real application that has aged so well. I first used pine MANY years ago, but most recently used it oh... well... last week probably.
But I think the best reason to love Pine has to be... PICO! Yes! Yes! Flame me! I use PICO!!!
Don't use it.
by
fahrvergnugen
·
· Score: 5, Informative
FreeBSD says this when I try to make PINE from ports:
SECURITY NOTE: The pine software has had several remote vulnerabilities discovered in the past, which allowed remote attackers to execute arbitrary code as you on your local system, by the action of sending a specially-prepared email. All such KNOWN problems have been fixed, but the pine code is written in a very insecure style and the FreeBSD Security Officer believes there are likely to be other undiscovered vulnerabilities. Do you wish to proceed with the installation of pine anyway?
Does the new version address any of the issues that lead to this message appearing?
-- Even Jesus hates listening to Creed.
Re:Don't use it.
by
erik+umenhofer
·
· Score: 3, Informative
I believe this warning comes from the fact it requires pico to build. IIRC, pico was the major problem and not pine. Of course, a bug is a bug no matter what the source. Me thinks that's what the problem was.
but the pine code is written in a very insecure style and the FreeBSD Security Officer believes there are likely to be other undiscovered vulnerabilities
What is it about the coding sytle that makes it very insecure?
-Bill
-- SlashSigKarma: Excellent (mostly affected by moderatio
Re:Don't use it.
by
hydrofi
·
· Score: 2, Informative
PICO is Pine's message composition editor and it is integrated to PINE as default. So PICO is in fact just PINE without the mail-thingie.
Re:Don't use it.
by
dd301
·
· Score: 2, Informative
What is it about the coding sytle that makes it very insecure?
A simple grep through the sources shows that there about 4,000 occurrences of insecure string copying (potential buffer overflows).
The author loves LISP and tries to write C code that does things in a LISP style... Even to the point of using gratuitous #defines like:
#define NIL 0/* convenient name */ #define T 1/* opposite of NIL */ #define LONGT (long) 1/* long T */ #define VOIDT (void *) ""/* void T */
All sorts of type casting and pointer arithmetic too--you just know there's a bug lurking in there somewhere. That said, I still use pine... tried switching to Mutt, but I didn't find it as convenient to use.
32-bit High Res Image of PINE
by
ekrout
·
· Score: 4, Funny
This means that if I read a message, it will automatically be moved from the inbox to the read-messages folder upon quitting. This keeps my inbox clean as I used to have a bad habit of letting things pile up. I also have it set to automatically archive sent and read messages. So I read each email, respond if necessary, delete if trivial and not worthy or archiving. Pine does the rest and my inbox stays neat and clean!!
ObPine-Worship: I have used pine on and off for several years and now it is my client of choice for my primary email account. As many readers have mentioned, I love it's speed and simplicity.
Still loyal
by
doc_traig
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
I'm still a loyal pine user, having cut my teeth first with "mail". What I've noticed, however, is that just about everyone I know who was a happy pine user is now a happy mutt user. I'm only a holdout on switching because I haven't really investigated the differences (if it ain't broke...), but my sense is that by popular majority among CLI mail readers I know, mutt is where you go to get "better-than-pine".
- DDT
-- So long, michael. Don't let the door hit you...
I waited to switch to mutt for a long time because in mutt it is not obvious at all what you have to do to get it to actually read your mail. I had to read a lot of docs, manuals, howtos, and mailing lists to make mutt send and recieve mail in the desired fashion. In contrast Pine was always very easy to configure.
But, I am now much happier with mutt than I was with pine. The only thing mutt lacks from pine is 'zoom'. Is there a mutt analog?
In fact there doesn't even seem to be a next-tagged-message keystroke...
I'm one of those people who switched from pine to mutt. I switched for a number of reasons: better pgp integration, mail threading (no longer an issue), easier to modify code (pine is hellish), a better security history, and a more powerful interface.
mutt isn't as cuddly as pine is, but it was worth it for me. and i get the added bonus that nothing installs pico on my machines now.
Thanks for the correction! I did make the mistake of just checking the bottom of the website. At least I covered my butt and said "I think it is..." thanks for clearing that up. Wow, actually learned something on slashdot - wow;)
Only on/. would you find someone refer to Pine as "cuddly".;)
I agree totally, of course. I haven't tried mutt, but I find Pine much easier to use than any other mail program, including webmail. I'll have to check out mutt some time. Can it import pine's address book, by any chance?
--
-Erf C. Cthulu always calls collect...
Re:Still loyal
by
0x0d0a
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
Well, let's see.
Pine: * Heavily menu-based, easier to learn * Better colorization when reading letters (colorizes each level of replied-to text a different color) * Most keys easier to remember * Has a monthly sent-mail folder. You can do this in mutt, but it takes a bit of work and editing your config file.
Mutt: * More consistent keystrokes...Pine has something like three keystrokes that mean "back out of this screen" -- Q, E, and less-than. Mutt inexplicably still uses both "q" and "i", but it's somewhat better. * Unlike pine, you don't have to turn on something like 50 options to get reasonable functionality out of the program -- pine defaults to an extremely simple set of options, mutt to a much more powerful set. * really, really good PGP support * more and nicer colorization of the UI aside from the recieved mail text.
Both are fairly configurable, mutt more so. Mutt takes much more poking around and time spent to get working the way you want.
I *strongly* suggest using whichever you choose in conjunction with procmail to process your incoming mail. I sort mailing list stuff into mailing list inboxes, filter out viruses, and eat spam with procmail. A little more work to use than the more simplistic filters in a GUI email program, but very powerful, and quite a useful tool to have under the belt.
Ack! Pico is a gift from the heavens. It's the only editor that users can understand without a tutorial. Text editors should not need to be "mastered" over a period of years. Don't get me wrong, vi and emacs have their uses, and vi is great for editing particular config files. But pico is simple, easy to understand, and if I just want to jot something down, I don't have to mess around with all the crap associated with vim or emacs.
Pico should be installed on all Unix boxes by default, and users should be directed as to it's basic use. And it is not like Pico takes up so much precious disk space either, so removing/not installing it really holds no benefit.
Vidar
-- The brains of a chicken, coupled with the claws of two eagles, may well hatch the eggs of our destruction.
Re:Still loyal
by
brianmf
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Pine: * Heavily menu-based, easier to learn * Better colorization when reading letters (colorizes each level of replied-to text a different color) * Most keys easier to remember * Has a monthly sent-mail folder. You can do this in mutt, but it takes a bit of work and editing your config file.
Mutt: * * mutt can colourise each level of replies, it even has a configurable quote-regexp so you can understand weird quote chars. I use good old black on white tho' * mutt keys can be rebound. if you google you may even find a "pine-like" muttrc key-binding scheme. * Whack this in your.muttrc: set record="=sent/`date +%Y-%m`"
License Issues w/ Pine
by
irregular_hero
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Pine is a really nice mail app, for sure. But I still think it has one of the quirkiest licenses of any source-available application out there. It specifically forbids development and support of branches of the codebase -- if I add a cool new feature that the maintainers refuse to add (web browsing, maybe), then I can't split off and make "Joe's Pine," I have to distribute a diff file with the original source tarball.
Re:License Issues w/ Pine
by
dw5000
·
· Score: 2, Informative
It specifically forbids development and support of branches of the codebase -- if I add a cool new feature that the maintainers refuse to add (web browsing, maybe), then I can't split off and make "Joe's Pine," I have to distribute a diff file with the original source tarball.
If you ever had to work with the University of Washington's patent and copyright folks, you'd understand. Since the university is an exceedingly underfunded institution, they demand their cut on all patents -- and Japanese companies compensate their internal inventors better.
Trust me, you want to put any homemade mods into your own personal tarball. If not, the University of Washington will act as if your mod is their personal property.
Re:License Issues w/ Pine
by
Clue4All
·
· Score: 3, Informative
It's like that for a very good reason. Pine was around BEFORE the GPL. Hell, Pine was around before there was open source as we know it. WU wrote a license that fit their needs and still allowed for the freedom its users wanted, and is still as such today. The people that shout about how evil Pine is because it isn't GPLed really need to do some reading.
Re:License Issues w/ Pine
by
irregular_hero
·
· Score: 2
That would make sense -- if the license didn't also make the program free to use for all entities both commercial and non-commercial. They may be exceedingly underfunded, but they aren't deriving _any_ income from Pine by license!
So, the question stands: What gives with the license?
Pine was around before version 2 of the GNU GPL would be a true
statement. Version 1 of the GNU GPL however, actually
appeared a whole 11 months before Pine.
According to Pine's history page, pine was conceived in 1989. The GPL first got its name in 1988 as documented here, and the GNU Project was first announced in 1983.
Btw, as a Pine user, I can assure you that the license doesn't allow all the freedom I want. The primary system on which I use Pine runs Debian. Due to pine's non-free license (and, likely, the advent of mutt), Pine fell out of active maintenance by Debian. So, I have to fetch and build the source myself outside the package system instead being able to apt-get security updates. Even prior to that, Debian switched to only distributing pine as a source package - apparently due to the Pine license change "clarifying" that distributing modified versions is forbidden.
I wouldn't go so far as to call the pine license Evil, but I think it is unfortunate. If there were a clone with the same interface, so as to not disrupt the long-time pine users on the system (including myself), I'd switch to it. As it stands, pine has about 7 years of finger memory going for it.
"PINE releases 4.50"
by
nakaduct
·
· Score: 4, Funny
Good for them. I myself just released 2.10, for a can of pop and bag of chips. That comes on the heels of a 1.30 release, into a parking meter.
I stopped using pine as my mail client (about three years i was using it) for three reasons:
1. Doesn't support Maildir in the main code, only thru third-party patches, and pine guys rejects to add Maildir support to the code, and nobody can do it and publish it, because of their license.
Sorry, have to jump in here. Do you really resent all other licenses that much that you only use GPL'ed applications? Must be tough living without apps that have other licenses, like the MIT/Athena license (XFree86). Artistic license (Perl), or Python (Python license), and others. Or do you really mean that you resent using software that isn't compatible with GPL?
The 1st and 3rd reason you gave are valid ones, the second needs explanation...
The 1st and 3rd reason you gave are valid ones, the second needs explanation...
I think by "Is not GPL", he meant "is a brain-damaged PIA license that is fundamentally intolerable to most modern Linux distributions." PINE doesn't let you distributed patched binaries, meaning that distributions can't put files in LFS-compliant places or fix bugs. So Debian, and others, don't want to mess with it, and it ends up outside the packaging system for users.
Do you really resent all other licenses that much that you only use GPL'ed applications?
No, i don't mind other open source licenses, although i prefer GPL for my projects. In my opinion there are too
much 'open source' licenses that don't offer anything new (opensource.org), but, in the case of PINE, Washington University license makes pine anything but
free software.
Must be tough living without apps that have other licenses, like the MIT/Athena license (XFree86). Artistic license (Perl), or Python (Python license), and others.
XFree86 license is less restrictive than GPL, you know,
and no, i don't need to use obfuscated code (i.e Perl) or
Python if I can avoid to;).
If you're a long time Pine fan, then it can actually be very easy to switch to Mutt. Mutt is generally distributed with a couple of sample.muttrc files (mutt config files). Generally one of them is called Pine.rc (/usr/share/doc/mutt/examples/Pine.rc on my Debian box).
Moving this file to ~/.muttrc will actually remap the mutt keys to very closely mimic pine. I did this when I first moved from pine to mutt, and within a day or so, I was using it comfortably. I then spent the next few weeks making minor tweaks to really make mutt work how I want it to.
Note that mutt uses vim much easier than Pine does (I'm a long time vim lover, too;-).
Doesn't support Maildir in the main code, only thru third-party patches, and pine guys rejects to add Maildir support to the code.
Have you ever noticed that the development of Pine is completely architected and funded by students and faculty of wash.edu? They don't run Maildir on their servers, so why should they even invest time and money in developing support for something they can't test, use, or deploy internally? Pine is used on their internal mail system, and it uses mbox.
If you want Maildir, don't use Pine. If you want the less-capable mail reader, use mutt. Just because mutt supports Maildir does not make it better.
2. Is not GPL
Pine is free. You can make as many patches and additions as you want to it, you just can't redistribute it as "Pine". If you want a GPL clone of Pine (and one that looks and acts IDENTICAL to Pine), you should be using Mana with Nano the editor, both are GPL'd and if you want, encourage their development to suit your needs. If not, you have absolutely no reason to be complaining.
Get your brand new green PINE tree in time to decorate for christmas! You could mod it with all blue lights... imagine a beowulf cluster of christmas trees! Merry Christmas to all!
Seriously though, threads help a ton in organizing messages.:)
-- Just because I doubt myself does not mean I find your position compelling.
Re:PINE in time for Christmas!
by
yack0
·
· Score: 4, Funny
Sorry, those blue lights aren't accepted into the changefiles, so they'll have to go. You may not release your own blue-light-PINE either.
Book em Dano
j
-- --
There is no sig line, only Zuul.
Re:PINE in time for Christmas!
by
Joel+Rowbottom
·
· Score: 2
In other news...
by
ivan256
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
In other news, pine would have done this years ago had it truly been free software. Since they don't allow people to distribute modified versions, and they don't like to accept featere enhancements nobody does any work on it. For that reason, everybody with the patience to look for and learn something better has moved on to other text based mail clients.
Can it understand more than one local sender address as not to be included in the reply set?
version number management
by
jki
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Imagine that pine was first released in 1989 and yet the latest version number is reasonable. If this was something else - going to be polite and not mention it:) - you know what it would be like. I mean there's a point in it - the project is more than 10 years old but has stayed very consistent for the whole time. And talking about email clients, that's a miracle.
Have you ever read the project history linked above: " Our goal was to provide a mailer that naive users could use without fear of making mistakes. We wanted to cater to users who were less interested in learning the mechanics of using electronic mail than in doing their jobs; users who perhaps had some computer anxiety". I think they have succeeded well, even now when everyone is used to having all the graphical bells and whistles my Mom - who had never used email before, learned pine quicker than outlook (she never learnt to use it, actually).
Re:version number management
by
0x0d0a
·
· Score: 2
Actually, the 21.2 is technically supposed to be "0.21.2", but they finally gave up on the 0 since it wasn't ever going to get up to version 1...
Pine was my first e-mail app too. But a single view of those old text menus (and memories of mails lost/rewritten) would send me running to the nearest GUI-driven mail program I could find. Use only as needed (imho).
-- "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." -Voltaire
But how do you use a GUI client over an SSH tunnel when you are on a low bandwidth connection? The point is pick a tool that is right for the job and for *many* of us that means a CLI mail client.
--
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics.
Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
watching it change...?
by
johnrpenner
·
· Score: 2
watching it change is like watching evolution in motion
it doesn't change - people change it.
and the people have changed it well - way to go pine!
I'm really curious to know how many users still use pine? I remember when I first got in college, it was the "easiest" mail application for an UNIX-newbie, so I used it for about a week (I didn't like it, so I found out about Emacs VM and never used pine again:-), but now I think things have changed a bit, no?
I mean, very new users tend to use graphical interfaces for almost everything... And there are plenty graphical MUAs ou there. And old, more "advanced" users tend to use more sofisticated or powerful MUAs (graphical or non-graphical), like Emacs' VM, Mutt, etc.
So.... does Pine really still maintain a user-base? If so, what would be the reasons for these users sticking with Pine? (As you can see, I'm not a Pine fan;), but anyways, I'd like to hear from those who are...).
I use pine when I'm away from my home computer and evolution when i'm at home. The reason I still use pine is because I haven't found anything better or at least haven't found a compelling reason to switch to mutt or emacs or mh. Pine with vim as my mail editor (pico sucks) does everything I need it to. Can someone give me a compelling reason to try out another command line mail system?
When a new user first runs pine, it asks them if they would mind sending an anonymous message that would count their use.
I still use pine. It's very very fast. Like searching for some text in a folder with 2500 messages is almost instantaneous. It also helps me cut through crap, reply quickly, and move on. Plus I don't have to use a mouse. I do have my priorities and just load up with 800 mg of Ibuprofen first!
I am old, 43, and suffering from RSI in a muscle in my right shoulder blade from using the mouse too much... However, that doesn't stop me from playing some decent first person shooters with my mouse.
Which reminds me, I was recently quoted in the newspaper here on a story about abandoning the mouse. My quote was ""If you tried to use keyboard commands for an online shooting game, you'd be dead before you could load your weapon," said Ken Weaverling, computer services manager at Delaware Technical & Community College."
I actually said "first person shooter" but the reporter changed it to "online shooting game." Still it was kinda neat even though people where I worked were wondering if they should call Tom Ridge's boys after me...
I've been using pine for about 7 years. I found out about it when I got my first linux install, in 1995. Not long after that I got an ISP which gave a free Unix shell account (via dialup/telnet) with the PPP account (you could buy just the shell account if you wanted.) Since it took a few days for the PPP to start working and the shell account was ready right away I started using pine and liked it.
Now at my final year at my huge university it is still what I use. It is very quick, very small, and I can get to it using every differant computer I use. (I use a *lot* of differant computers.) I see absolutly no advantage that a GUI mail client offers me. I use procmail for spam anyway, and I don't exactly have the most complex mail needs. Pine just works well and I have never said, "Oh, If only I could be able to do X".
So that is why I still use pine. Most of my freinds use it too. In a few months when I leave college I will just setup fetchmail and continue to ssh into my own box to check mail with pine.
And speaking of mutt, it is not installed on the student unix cluster my school maintains so I have never had the chance to use it.
Ah what a great discussion to mod, but nonetheless I feel obliged to reply. I suppose I'm a loyal pine user, I've never used anything else. No IMAP, no POP3, no webmail, etc. With the great help of Mysidia, we converted everything to qmail a couple of years ago and pine works just great. (Had to change a config setting in pine, oh no!) Also, I always answer "no" when changing my sent-mail to the new month, so.. according to my sent-mail my first outgoing email was on August 26, 1997.
Er, anyways, to be on topic, I never switched because I have no reason to. What does GUI provide that I don't have besides pretty pictures? I use the keyboard shortcuts just fine, it's fast, I can save attachments and get them via ftp, I can easily send attachments, I hate html emails, but it parses just enough to make them readable, and all of the features are at most 3 keystrokes away, not to mention wrappers for pgp signing and encrypting!
I've been using Pine for about 5 years now, after moving to unix from Eudora on a Windows box, and am still extremely happy with it. I've tried Mutt, but I didn't like the 'feel' of it as much as Pine. While Mutt's bindings are configurable, the functions they provide just didn't match up to how I use Pine.
I have a great deal of muscle-memory using Pine, and I fly using it, which is extremely important to me. I'm able to perform the operations I want to in Pine very quickly. I also use Pine as my newsreader, but I'm not a heavy news guy.
If there was a mailer I'd switch to it might be nmh, but only with a strongly personalized, self-written frontend.
Simple, migrating to mutt or VM is way too much work . I've got a.pinerc that's been hacked on continuously for more than ten years (to the extent that it segfaults anything older than a patched 4.44), the entire interface as spinal reflexes (an mild exaggeration, there are a few keystrokes that I realize I'm typing as I do them), and good IMAP support. The latter has changed quite a bit in recent years, but it still seems that mutt and VM lag. No surprise really, IMAP came out of UW in the first place and they're heavily wed to it.
It's a bit frustrating, I've tried mutt/VM/Gnus and I like them but it's too much work for a few nice features.
I have a choice at work: 1.dtmail 2.Netscape 4.9's mail 3.Pine Which would you use?
LOL, good point. Actually, I've been using Pine by choice for about 6 years. I might use it for another 6. I try a new/different GUI email app every few months, but none has impressed me enough to switch.
dtmail is pretty weak, but it works. Doesn't crash nearly as often as Netscape's mail... but like most of the CDE apps, it has memory leaks up the wazoo.
I've continued to use Pine for years, as have many of my friends and coworkers. It's fast, it's (somewhat) lean, and it just works. I'll probably keep using it for many more years.
I'm really curious to know how many users still use pine?
I use PINE when I'm away or pissed at Eudora; I have a linux box on ADSL with masquarade, and I access my mail through IMAP and Eudora. Doing so enables me to ssh into my box from away, and not only read my e-mail, but also have access to all my mail folders and whatnot.
Besides, PINE is invaluable to debug mail problems for a given user while working on the server...
I started with Elm, moved on to Pine. Since then, I have used xfmail, TKRat, Kmail, Sylpheed, Evolution, and mutt. Now I'm back to Pine.
Basically, xfmail was adequate but ugly, TKRat was slow, KMail, Sylpheed and Evolution are promising but full of bugs, and mutt doesn't offer enough to me to be a compelling change - though I'm sure if I checked it out recently (I last looked at it two years ago) I'd have to re-think that statement.
I tried Sylpheed and Evolution quite early on in their development. Perhaps they've improved. However, I value simplicity and speed in my interface over features, and frankly Pine does most of what I want.
I use Maildir, and courier-imap. Every so often I check out a bunch of new mail readers, and I've found that using IMAP to arbitrate access to my mail is the best way to ensure it stays consistent (short of fiddling about with dummy Maildirs, of course).
I do not use Pico to edit my emails. I use joe on the console, and nedit in a GUI.
I've been using pine since 1994. I've tried a few GUI mailers, but always end up waiting on them (Netscape mail, Mail.app, stuff like that). I've played with mutt a few times, but never found anything pine couldn't do, but had trouble getting it to do the basic stuff I care about. I read my mail from two different machines just about every day.
The most important features for me:
* Server-side config
* Multiple incoming folders (tab to flip through them)
* Multiple roles...and, of course, being able to use it it without thinking.:)
--
--
The world is watching America, and America is watching TV.
Actually, I did -- I searched through the options on pine and didn't find where I could have it randomly choose a sig, so i wrote a shell script to do this, then call pine. Works quite nicely. I've even bothered to update it once in a while.
There is an option to do that! PINE allows you to use a script as your signature. Simply use "~/mysig.pl|" as your signature and then do the sig selection in the script. Works like a charm!
Don't care about PINE, love PICO
by
ecliptik
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I for one really don't care about Pine that much as as mail program. I love Pico, the wonderful little text editor that comes with it. Yeah I know there's the GPL nano, but I'm still pico all the way, and put it on every unix machine I use. It's nice to see that the one app I use probably more than any other is still in development.
Careful, captain. Some of us are still using Pine.
Of course I'm not surprised by the reaction. My mother saw me sshing to my box once and said "Oh God, that brings back horrible memories..." Who says that UI has nothing to do with End User acceptance? Me personally: I love it. But to most people its like "Why do you go out hunting with a bow and arrow when we can get perfectly good meat down at the Kroger?"
Pine Users: the Ted Nugents of the Computing World!
Not even! I use pine every day also, but that's just because I like pico so much. I've hated all the Unix text-mode editors except pico, so pine was just natural for me to start using. And I guess I've stuck with it because I'm lazy.
Not a fair analogy. A better one would be "Why go out hunting with a bow and arrow when you could chase squirrels, beat them senseless with your plastic Outlook cd case, then eat their brains?"
le mot juste
by
happystink
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Evolution in motion eh Hemos? As opposed to evolution which doesn't go forward, or uhh..
--
sig:
See the "..for smart people" banners Wired runs here? Look elsewhere guys.
Pine is great, but the licence...
by
lakeland
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Pine is a great email program. Using only a console it somehow manages to be easier to use than most GUI programs. The error messages are an example of brilliant UI design.
Unfortunatly the licence is not good. While the source is available, distributing changed versions is illegal. This for example makes it illegal for Debian to fix its paths and distribute it, or for me to make a graphical version (anyone remember xpine?)
That means I've now given up on it. Fortunatly there are fairly good replacements, like mutt with pine bindings, or kmail via aalib.
Pine was nice 10 years ago, easier to figure out (for me) than elm, nicer than mail and Mail. But, well, changes take a damned long time coming, and some things (like newsgroup support) seemed to be added for "gee whiz" reasons before things that make reading large mailing lists useful (like threading).
As others have said, most everyone with patience to learn something else has moved on. Most of the people I know have moved on to mutt. And yes, someone's pointed out to me the default keybindings match elm. I guess as you grow and learn . ..
-- "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --H.L. Mencken
Re:Pico rules!
by
stratjakt
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I thought it was?
Ah well, I always use it. It's part of slackware, which is all I ever needed to set up any servers.
It's pretty good. A little feature light and glitchy.
Like if you wrap text past the screen, it has a nasty habit of starting a newline, so you have to delete the newline, etc. Pain in the ass for long lines in config files.
--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Still no S/MIME plugins. Thank you, move along
by
Stonehead
·
· Score: 3, Informative
A quick search on the changelog reveals nothing improved about the years-old problems with Pine and S/MIME. It simply can't invoke plugins for GPG to check or generate messages that have the GPG signature as an attachment. Which means that 80% of the GPG-signed email that I get is useless and that Pine still does not handle the S/MIME RFC. (The other 20% is handled by patches or stopgaps.) Sigh. I know Mutt is better, but I still use Pine 4.44. I just don't trust those scripts that add Pine keybindings to Mutt..:)
Re:Still no S/MIME plugins. Thank you, move along
by
xenoweeno
·
· Score: 2
I just don't trust those scripts that add Pine keybindings to Mutt..:)
First off - I love this program. I've been using it at Cornell for the last 6 years and except for not being able to have a look at those silly pictures people sometimes send me with my text terminal, I'd have it no other way.... I'll sometimes type ahead of my terminal's response by 4-5 commands, then just wait for them all to complete "at once" when the busy sun box catches up to me. It handles pine for many others and gets somewhat slow in the evenings. Damn fine email client though. (A much better way of handling mail than the IMP solution they recently came up with....)
Question: How does Pine's IMAP client implementation compare to Mutt's? Insight or experience anyone?
I've been thinking of setting up my own IMAP server.... [Offtopic] Cyrus or courier-imap server? Advantages or disadvantages of each?
I use pine for some years now. I have kept all my old email in pine folders. Recently I installed cyrus imapd at home, with SSL support. I tried using mozilla to transfer all my old email to my IMAP server, but the server would complain about the headers in the messages. Opened up pine, configured IMAP/ssl and tried moving all my old email to the IMAP server. Except for some minor problems (some messages), I moved it all. It is slow, but does the trick.
Re:IMAP in Pine
by
Simon+Lyngshede
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
Pine handels one IMAP server just fine... but that's just not good enough anymore. Personally I have three imap account one three different servers, Pine doesn't not handle that well. Sure you can do it, or at leasts thats what they claim. I just gave up, it amazingly complicated to setup, just my opinion. If you just have the one IMAP server it pretty good.
Im still looking for a console mail reader that can handle multiple IMAP servers as good as Mozilla does. Any ideas ? (And no, the answer Im looking for is NOT Gnus, I hate it okay, no reason, I just dislike it in a bad way, live with it.)
How does Pine's IMAP client implementation compare to Mutt's?
Pine is IMAP. For a very long time, other clients (including mutt) just treated IMAP as a form
of POP. Pine, on the other hand, did IMAP before it
did POP. (A principle pine developer is also a principle force behind IMAP.)
I've been thinking of setting up my own IMAP server....
Look at the UW IMAP server. The chief complaint
about it is that it is be slow and a memory hog for large mail boxes. But that is only true if
you use the unix/mbox mail box format. If you use
the recommend mbx format, access is quick, you
can have multiple sessions open to the same mailbox (with this, I get around the "single view" problem of pine, by running multiple instances.
I also store my.pinerc on an IMAP server as well.)
Anyway, I'm obviously a pine fan (and was a tester for this release. I haven't yet installed 4.50, so I'm still running 4.49.9999).
-- Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
I've been using Pine ever since I first had access to a shell account (at my school) in 1998. I don't particularily care about the license, as I don't develop in it. I don't particularily care that it doesn't handle newsgroups very well, as I rely on Google Groups for newsreading (I don't post). I could go on.
It's a simple interface, with everything documented WITHIN THE PROGRAM (main reason I don't use vi), and best of all, it comes with Pico, which I think is the most cool, kickass little text editor. Pico on my servers combined with Putty on my Win2k workstation equals easy code and script editing.
As far as I'm concerned, if you can't use vi, you're not qualified to work on UNIX boxes
Yeah? As far as I'm concerned, if you can't use FORTRAN-77, you're not qualified to work on UNIX boxes. Oh, and Ada. And screen. You *do* know how to use screen, right? And sendmail. God forbid that anyone be allowed to use a UNIX box without the ability to hand-code up a sendmail.cf file without any reference material.
That's about how silly the "vi" requirement comes off to me. Short of troubleshooting a system with a dead emacs (not exactly something that happens often), there's little reason to require someone to know vi. And for really nasty troubleshooting, I suspect most x86 people are more likely to use e3 than vi to avoid the libc requirement (/me remembers a dark day with a broken ld.so).
That being said, pico is a pretty frusterating editor to try using very seriously, or for anything other than mail.
Threading support
by
rsidd
·
· Score: 4, Informative
is improved, but not new: it has been there in some form since at least version 4.30.
Out of pine comes pico
by
stype
·
· Score: 5, Funny
And don't forget about pico (pine composer), which has been making bad programmers worse for more years than I care to remember.
-- -Stype
Bus error -- driver executed.
Re:Out of pine comes pico
by
brer_rabbit
·
· Score: 2
what's wrong with pico? It's great for editing/etc/passwd !
Re:Out of pine comes pico
by
Kashif+Shaikh
·
· Score: 2
Pico is refuge for those students afraid of vi and emacs. Emacs requires finger-twisting multi-button action to operate, while vi requires a reboot because clueless users don't know why vi doesn't respond to any input:)
Of course, with the advent of samba, Notepad.exe is the successor of pico. Who would use Notepad to write a program, then compile it with gcc under *NIXes?
But pico's most important invention: it allows interoptability between Windows and Unices, simply because it converts all the CR/LFs to CRs.
I've never seen an elm vs pine flame war. Most of us that have been using elm, look at all pine users as newbies and just ignore them.
I 1st got pine from mod.sources in 1986 and I've been using it ever since. (newbies can group google for v06i031). Its open source thanks to HP.
Anyone else remember the early exploits where people would email vt100 sequences to reprogram the keys so the next time you hit F1 it would "own" your system? Elm was one of the 1st programs to attempt to fix that.
Pasting to pine/pico from X selection
by
zorgon
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
I have found that copy and paste (from somewhere else, into pine/pico) using highlight/middle button in X sessions results in a tangled mess -- particularly if it's over some other text, this text is overwritten and whatnot.
Does anyone know if the new version of pine&pico has fixed this problem? I find it to be a big obstacle to useability. Merci.
--
I am quite civilized, and I should be
brought a beer immediately. -- Bruce Sterling
Re:Pasting to pine/pico from X selection
by
Vic
·
· Score: 2
I haven't used pico in a couple of years. I set up Vim to be my editor in Pine. Much, much better. YOu can format your text any way you want.
pico also has this option, I've made it a common habit to *always* pico -w (file). Also adding a +number opens pico the specified line of a file. Or, if you can use ^W then ^T to go to that line once pico is opened.
I can totally relate. I started with Elm and was forced to switch to pine many years ago when our sysadmin decided to overhaul the system to his likings. After a week or so, I got used to Pine and have been using it ever since. I haven't even tried Mutt as Pine works fine for me.
Maybe I'll give Mutt & Nano a try this weekend. Or maybe sometime around 2005. Who knows.
University of Washington not using new version yet
by
rowanxmas
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
As some of you are aware, all of the UW email servers allow you to login and use pine to read your email after seeing a screen with some other stuff and this:
E - email: Electronic mail (Pine version 4.44)
So maybe they haven't gotten around to it yet...
More Pine being worked on
by
MaverickUW
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
Well, not many people may realize it, but the UW has been working on a newer version of Pine then what was just released. Many schools have their own webmail program (UW had this really bad one for a while), but UW has been developing what it calls Webpine for a long time now accessable at webpine.washington.edu if you're a UW student (links to find out more are on the page. It works pretty well, when accessing my old UW email account, I generally log into webpine (I don't have shell access anymore so normal pine is out the window). Given time, and ways to speed the process up for those of us unfortunate enough to be on dialup (broadband isn't always the fastest for some parts of it either), and this could be really good. It's written at least partially in tcl.
That was truely a classic Tree. That was the one with several layers of mouth, so that the Tree could choose to open an angry mouth or a happy mouth. Only mascott that I know of that can display a wide range of emotions. Cal hasn't had the Axe in what, six years now?
aparently you haven't seen the Spirit of Troy counter march for Stanford. The band spreads out accross the entire field (at about a 3 yard grid they fill the entire field). Then the proceed to play while doing various maneuvers in perfect syncronization. The best part is that at several points during the march, everyone breaks apart, does whatever they want, runs around in circles, whatever, while still playing, and then all on the same beat they return to perfect synch again. Its really an awe-inspiring perfomance (from size, technicality, etc.) and really puts to shame the signature-chaos of Stanford's band.
I used to be a loyal PINE user. I was never really happy with the PICO editor and found that using PINE with PGP or GPG was awkward. However, I hacked up my.pinerc quite a bit and got the thing working the way I liked it to (like using vi as my editor).
Then, I tried mutt. After a few minutes I was hooked. I now use mutt for all of my mail. I think its ability to seamlessly integrate with GPG was the biggest factor in convincing me to switch.
Why I still use pine...
by
Tester
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
Yes I admit it, I still use pine even if its not free software. Why? Its to my knownledge the only email client that supports remote imap properly. By that I mean one that doesnt try to re-download the whole list of all messages in the folder like mutt (Very usefull with huge folders). Evolution would probably do the job as it keeps a local copy. But it was way to unstable the last time I tried it. And I need something that I can use over the network.
Any mutt user can tell me if mutt now supports imap properly? And don't tell me gnus is the solution, even if I'm starting to consider it...
Its to my knownledge the only email client that supports remote imap properly. By that I mean one that doesnt try to re-download the whole list of all messages in the folder like mutt (Very usefull with huge folders).
Outlook Express does this just fine.
Fix it yourself (was Re:Does it..)
by
CoolVibe
·
· Score: 4, Informative
In your login script do:
stty sane
stty erase ^H
stty erase ^\?
It's not a bug in pine, it's a bug in your termcap database.
Re:Fix it yourself (was Re:Does it..)
by
0x0d0a
·
· Score: 2
Um...he didn't blame it on you. He said that the bug was in termcap (more UNIXish than pine, which at least also exists on Windows). He's also correct -- the termcap was incorrect. And while I suppose the topic was somewhat incindiary, he just gave you some free tech support. Chill out.
You run
ssty erase ^H
and you'll fix it.
The reason that only pine demonstrates the problem is that a lot of pieces of software simply take ^H and ^? and treat them both as backspace (bash, for instance, does this). If you want another piece of software that will demonstrate this problem, try running less on a file, typing slash to search, and then entering a search string. Any backspaces you hit while typing your query will spew "^H"s.
Re:Fix it yourself (was Re:Does it..)
by
Alomex
·
· Score: 2
It don't work custard. I've done some research on this problem in the past, and it is a pine specific implementation problem.
Re:Fix it yourself (was Re:Does it..)
by
Alomex
·
· Score: 2
You run ssty erase ^H and you'll fix it.
Nope. Is quite a bit more complex than that, and it is a pine specific problem according to several web sites out there. less does not show this behavior, with or without the "fix".
If they have the IMAP stuff turned on for Exchange 2k, you can run Pine as an IMAP client against Exchange. I do this when I'm suspicous about a mail message and don't trust Outlook.
It's kind of amusing to do it, and more functional than using lynx with Outlook Web Access..
Of course, there's the downside that I don't get to use the meeting-scheduling interfaces
I've long wondered why the IMAP protocol hasn't been extended to allow for meeting-scheduling and calendaring functionality to be built into any IMAP client.
Most of it would be to support real-time busy search, but the rest of it could just be storing calendar items as ordinary messages in a standardized format that could be parsed by the client and displayed any way the client app deems approrpriate.
This would really cool, as it would allow any IMAP client that supported "IMAP calendaring extensions" to be able to get pretty much full calendaring functionality out of any IMAP server that supported them as well; pretty much any server could then have complete calendaring abilities.
It would also break the "but we need calendaring" stranglehold that Exchange has on messaging.
The big missing element would be multi-server busy search; you'd have to have a way for IMAP servers to communicate with each other. You'd also need a decent LDAP directory, but that would be icing and not totally necessary for functionality.
spam filters in PINE: how to add them :)
by
timothy
·
· Score: 5, Informative
I've been using PINE for a long time; this does not make me a power user of PINE so much as someone who has eventually had a very few useful bits of information blasted at me enough to have left a small groove in my brain like a flatworm. (Right animal I'm thinking of?) Here's one thing that I hope you find useful: how to use PINE's filters.
Many people, in fact, don't realize that PINE has a very nice filter system. Yes, there *is* a fine manual for pine, but not that many pithy HOWTOs. Or maybe there are -- google searches eventually brought this information to light for me, and I'm just paraphrasing it here for your convenience:)
So. Let's say you use pine, and want to stop, interrogate and file away from your sensitive eyeballs all email that contains the giveaway snippet "this email cannot be considered spam". Here's a step-by-step guide -- it's only this long to provide assurance; once you start the process, you can probably ignore my steps and simply follow the on-screen prompts.
1) fire up pine if it's not already running.
2) Hit "M" if you're not at the Main screen. My PINE session is setup to take me straight to my inbox, but yours may already bring you right to your main screen, but at any rate hitting M can't hurt:)
3) (OK, this is really three steps in one) Hit "S" for Setup; Hit "R" for Rules; Hit "F" for Filter, because that's the type of Rule you want to add.
6) The screen you're now looking at is a bit intimidating, but it's really like a gruff pal who is actually friendly once you're past his exterior. Highlighted already is a line that says "No Value Set: using "Filter Rule": at this point, hit return and give your filter an appropriate name. I usually say something like "[keyword description] [(reason)]" -- in this case, I'd make it "this email cannot be considered spam (spam)." From here on out, use your arrow keys or tab around to fill in the relevant information.
7) Let's do this example section by section. In the top section, the one headed by the line "CURRENT FOLDER CONDITIONS BEGIN HERE," you most likely will not have to do anything; the default is probably to make the filter affect your inbox, which is what I (and I'm guessing most people) usually want.
8) Next section, "FILTERED MESSAGE CONDITIONS BEGIN HERE," that is, looks more complicated than it is. You can ignore the fields you don't care about by just leaving them blank. If you were trying to block all messages from "stalker99@aol.com," you would put that address in the field labeled "From pattern." In our present example, go down to the field "AllText pattern," hit return to give yourself an input field, and type in (or paste in) "this email cannot be considered spam". In fact, "cannot be considered spam" by itself might be even smarter. I avoid punctuation in my spam filters; you want matches, and shorter phrases give more matches.
9) Almost done:) Scroll down, ignoring a few sections, to the section "ACTIONS BEGIN HERE" and the subsection "Filter action =" Go down to the line "Folder List = " and hit return (again, this is the way you get a text entry field). Type in the name of a folder to which you would like the dreck blasted; "spam" is what I call mine. If the folder does not yet exist, PINE will prompt you and ask if you want to create it; this is a useful catch in case you accidentally try to filter it to "span" instead.
10) Hit "E" to "Exit Setup." When PINE asks "Commit changes ("Yes" replaces settings, "No" abandons changes)? " hit Y for Yes. You now have a filter in place!:) If it corresponds to a piece of spam currently in your inbox, you should see a message like "moving one filtered message to "spam.""
11) Return to you inbox; "M" for Main and "I" for inbox should do it. If your filter was well applied, you should be down one spam:)
Note: you can set up filters on ingoing mail for your friends as well as the jerks of the world; you can filter all mail from your old buddies to a folder "pals," and mail from coworkers to "job_mail," etc, by using the "From pattern" field rather than the AllText pattern, for instance.
Then, to read your sorted email, look in the folders you have created, because the incoming messages will be sorted into them. i.e., if you create a "friends" folder, you must open that folder to see the mail which has been sorted into it.
This is a very incomplete look at PINE's filters, but I hope it is useful to you. If you explore the options available on the filter creation page, for instance, you can see that you can also sent junk mail straight to the toilet by deleting it unread; this has resulted in some false positives for me, so I try not to do this any more.
so I guess he won't mind if I use one of his phrases in this context:
Do you PINE for the nice days when men were men and user real mail
programs?:-)
--
--
If you moderate this, then your children will be next.
Re:SSH for mail is a hack.
by
BusDriver
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Why is it an ugly hack?
It's secure. It's quick and easy.
I'm at an internet cafe right now. It's much easier and fast for me to download putty and ssh to my box than to wait for 20 minutes for mozilla to download, then for me to install it and to set it up etc. Then I have to remember to uninstall it when I leave the cafe, so that others don't get my info/headers that may get left behind.
Not to mention it leaves another port open on my box for the world to see. I'd much rather just have port 22 open.
I agree with your comment, imap over ssl is nice, but it's not always easy or quick. I also can't see why you'd call it an ugly hack?
Tim
Re:Nano, the GPL Pico clone.
by
z84976
·
· Score: 2
Heheh actually, now that you mention it, I HAVE replaced pico with nano on the machines I most often use that stuff with (webserver, etc). Search/Replace was a godsend.
I've found Mozilla more universal.
by
Inoshiro
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Than something like an SSH client.
At the local university and work, the more IMAP client connects the same as my IMAP clients at home do to my mail spool. I consider it a hack to do it via SSH, since SSH was designed for interactive login sessions. In many cases, most of the people for whom I provide email do not have an actual UNIX account on my system. That is why it is a hack: it requires extra accounts and other potentially dangerous settings (like allowing logins via password, instead of private key) to allow remote SSH use from anywhere. I'd much rather people trashed the live copy of my mail spool than my home dir, since it's a lot easier to backup and restore my mail spool.
-- -- Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Re:I've found Mozilla more universal.
by
digitalsushi
·
· Score: 2
But using PINE over an ssh connection IS interactive. I've used PINE since '97- I was a junior in high school working at the local ISP. Never looked at another client since. You can configure SSH to disallow passwords. The plain text-ness of PINE means I get to avoid sneaky formatting spams, avoiding lewd spam porn, and I never stop once to worry about viruses. I don't want for my mail to download. It's not a hack- an account is an account- whether you leave your system wide open or not is up to you. Heck, make their shell PINE- globally disallow subshells and all that mess- blah. Whatever..
-- slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
Pine supports IMAP, and I guess your IMAP server supports Maildir. Stock pine does not support Maildir format mailboxes directly (i.e. without using an IMAP server).
Re:Doesn't support Maildir?
by
TomatoMan
·
· Score: 2
Ah, I see. Right, I do have to log in to the imap server with Pine from the same box.
You know, I really have not seen such a debate get as bad as the whole Vi vs. Emacs thing. Infact, Pine contributes positively to the Vi/Emacs debate because it also comes with Pico.... something Vi and Emacs users can unite together to hate. Heh...
Anyway, I personally use Pine for email and Vi for editing. ^_^;
--
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
Like watching paint dry.
by
CanadaDave
·
· Score: 2
"watching it change is like watching evolution in motion"
..or you mean like watching paint dry. When will they finally get with the program and make PINE graphical? Like, you know, give it a GUI?
Re:Like watching paint dry.
by
Quill_28
·
· Score: 2
Yeah that would great, I love throwing X windows over my connection at work from home, the guys are always so happy to open the ports. And my firewall never has a problem with X-Windows. Maybe they don't want it to be graphical. Thought of that? There are lots of GUI's out there use one of them.
Re:Like watching paint dry.
by
CanadaDave
·
· Score: 2
No way! I'm going to use Lynx and Pine as long as I can. By the way, all joking aside, Tight VNC is actually quite nice if you have a good connection on both ends...compared to X that is.
Re:Like watching paint dry.
by
0x0d0a
·
· Score: 2
What would the point be of putting a GUI on it? It's well evolved to the text-based paradigm. I can't see much advantage added by moving to a GUI. I can resize my window and have the thing auto-resize already. If you really want to, you can enable mouse support. What would the point of going GUI be?
Re:Nano, the GPL Pico clone.
by
decaying
·
· Score: 2
:1,$s/search/replace/g
Not that hard...
-- -----
One piece short of Legoland
an idle thought re: licensing
by
timothy
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Since the biggest objection I can see to PINE is the licensing (and since it's already installed on the system which receives my email, it's not something which bothers me, even, and I stress *even* if it otherwise would), I wonder why UWashington does not give in and dual-license it.
Even a one-time release of a particular code snapshot under the GPL or BSD or [insert license] (with no intention of coordinating any further development of that branch) would / should satisfy most of the complainers:)
This is just an off-the-cuff thought, but... why not?
Regarding threading, how do you set up gnus email if you're not an experienced programmer but do have gnus newsgroups running in emacs?...
Most explanations have been too complicated for novices to set up gnus email.
oo__ dsaklad@gnu.org
Re:SSH for mail is a hack.
by
JebusIsLord
·
· Score: 2
I havent tried it yet, but IMAP and POP over SSH are even available in Outlook XP.
I've never seen an elm vs pine flame war. Most of us that have been using elm, look at all pine users as newbies and just ignore them.
You may not have seen such, but boy, are you ever trying hard to start one.
Nothing like demonstrating one's l33tness by showing that you can figure out how to use Foo email client instead of Baz email client. Yessiree, that sure is badass.
I have tried them all (mail readers) and I always find myself going back to pine. I keep a USB keychain drive with me that has a nice SSH client for every OS I may run across -- and I can get to my mail from anywhere. (and on a slow connection -- this is much better than those "heavy html" based mail reader "emulators" that you kids are using these days...)
-- (+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
*shock* My girlfriend likes Pine!
by
10Ghz
·
· Score: 2
She used Pine over Telnet in her university and learned to like it. One day I was putting together a new home-computer for her family (Windows, Outlook Express, the basic stuff). As I was configuring Outlook for her she commented "Outlook... blah! I hate it! Give me my Pine and Telnet back!". I asked her that is she serious, and she was!
At that moment, I came really close of asking her to marry me.
-- Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
The good thing about PuTTY is that the downloable.EXE is the entire program. There's no installer and thus the application can be run from even the most locked down of machines with little difficulty.
I actually spent a year studying at a uni in germany. They had so locked down windows boxes I couldn't even get putty or mirc running. Only approved(tm) programs there. That was actually the biggest reason I shelled out for a laptop.
Kjella
-- Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
They still got threading wrong..
by
hacker
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
The stock threading in Pine 4.50 is STILL wrong, but the patch I've been running here for over a year works perfectly (in fact, my name is actually in the patch itself for a similar bug). Let me explain:
When you want to sort your mail, so the newest messages arrive at the top (normal for anyone who reads a LOT of mail), you set Pine to sort by "Reverse Arrival". Using the patch, I hit 'k', and now I expose threads, but ONLY the first message of the thread is sorted in reverse-arrival mode (as it should be). All replies to that thread are shown consecutively underneath it in normal arrival mode (replace dots for spaces, Slashdot strips them):
Nov 22...Message 1
Nov 22...Message 2
Nov 18...Message 3
Nov 19...+---Re: Message 3 (repl 1)
Nov 20.......+---Re: Message 3 (repl 2)
Nov 22...........+---Re: Message 3 (repl 3)
Nov 15...Message 4
With the threading in the new Pine 4.5, without using the threading patch (which was written by wash.edu, btw), you get:
Nov 22...Message 1
Nov 22...Message 2
Nov 22...........+---Re: Message 3 (repl 3)
Nov 20.......+---Re: Message 3 (repl 2)
Nov 19...+---Re: Message 3 (repl 1)
Nov 18...Message 3
Nov 15...Message 4
And there's no way to stop it. Sorting by Reverse-Arrival hides threads.
Sorting by Threads sorts upside-down (as above).
Sorting by Reverse-Threads puts new messages at the bottom.
I've been a happy user of Pine for 10 years (or however long it has been out), but I can't upgrade to this when such a core function is non-working like this (incidentally, don't tell me to try mutt, I've tried mutt, and it can't even come remotely close in features to what last-year's pine can do, not to mention the exploitable holes with mutt's file browser).
I guess I'll report this again, and hope that Eduardo can come up with a quick patch to fix it.
Re:SSH for mail is a hack.
by
JebusIsLord
·
· Score: 2
Slashdot Mirror
My school added an "amazing new webmail feature" this year, but I really wasn't that impressed with it. The sad thing is that they probably paid some company for the webmail app, even though you can download several different ones at freshmeat.net for free.
;-)
Anyway, the point is that PINE is still used today even though many consider it antiquated. For people like myself who know all the shortcuts and don't mind an all-text interface, it's superb.
So, PINE is certainly not dead, and many of us still use it on occasion when away from the office. It's much faster than VNCing into your home box and using Outlook.
When you're on the go, give PINE a call
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
Hum, not quite yet. But, it is definitely catching up.
Bah... /usr/ucb/Mail rules!
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Well, maybe not, but seriously, distributing modified binaries of pine is illegal, which really cramps my style ;-). There are other mail readers I would reccomened over pine, namely mutt, or elm, spruce, sylpheed, or balsa, all of which are Free as in speech.
But I think the best reason to love Pine has to be... PICO! Yes! Yes! Flame me! I use PICO!!!
SECURITY NOTE: The pine software has had several remote vulnerabilities discovered in the past, which allowed remote attackers to execute arbitrary code as you on your local system, by the action of sending a specially-prepared email. All such KNOWN problems have been fixed, but the pine code is written in a very insecure style and the FreeBSD Security Officer believes there are likely to be other undiscovered vulnerabilities. Do you wish to proceed with the installation of pine anyway?
Does the new version address any of the issues that lead to this message appearing?
Even Jesus hates listening to Creed.
Screenshot of PINE in action.
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
I'm still a loyal pine user, having cut my teeth first with "mail". What I've noticed, however, is that just about everyone I know who was a happy pine user is now a happy mutt user. I'm only a holdout on switching because I haven't really investigated the differences (if it ain't broke...), but my sense is that by popular majority among CLI mail readers I know, mutt is where you go to get "better-than-pine".
- DDT
So long, michael. Don't let the door hit you...
Pine is a really nice mail app, for sure. But I still think it has one of the quirkiest licenses of any source-available application out there. It specifically forbids development and support of branches of the codebase -- if I add a cool new feature that the maintainers refuse to add (web browsing, maybe), then I can't split off and make "Joe's Pine," I have to distribute a diff file with the original source tarball.
Good for them. I myself just released 2.10, for a can of pop and bag of chips. That comes on the heels of a 1.30 release, into a parking meter.
I stopped using pine as my mail client (about three years
i was using it) for three reasons:
1. Doesn't support Maildir in the main code, only thru third-party patches, and pine guys rejects to add Maildir
support to the code, and nobody can do it and publish it,
because of their license.
2. Is not GPL
3. Mutt is waaaaay more configurable
Get your brand new green PINE tree in time to decorate for christmas! You could mod it with all blue lights... imagine a beowulf cluster of christmas trees! Merry Christmas to all!
Seriously though, threads help a ton in organizing messages.
Just because I doubt myself does not mean I find your position compelling.
In other news, pine would have done this years ago had it truly been free software. Since they don't allow people to distribute modified versions, and they don't like to accept featere enhancements nobody does any work on it. For that reason, everybody with the patience to look for and learn something better has moved on to other text based mail clients.
quote:
watching it change is like watching evolution in motion
this is a bad pun, or a bad joke, or a funny mistake
Did they fix the Ctrl-H Backspace bug?
Can it understand more than one local sender address as not to be included in the reply set?
Have you ever read the project history linked above: " Our goal was to provide a mailer that naive users could use without fear of making mistakes. We wanted to cater to users who were less interested in learning the mechanics of using electronic mail than in doing their jobs; users who perhaps had some computer anxiety". I think they have succeeded well, even now when everyone is used to having all the graphical bells and whistles my Mom - who had never used email before, learned pine quicker than outlook (she never learnt to use it, actually).
Pine was my first e-mail app too. But a single view of those old text menus (and memories of mails lost/rewritten) would send me running to the nearest GUI-driven mail program I could find.
Use only as needed (imho).
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." -Voltaire
watching it change is like watching evolution in motion
it doesn't change - people change it.
and the people have changed it well - way to go pine!
j.
I mean, very new users tend to use graphical interfaces for almost everything... And there are plenty graphical MUAs ou there. And old, more "advanced" users tend to use more sofisticated or powerful MUAs (graphical or non-graphical), like Emacs' VM, Mutt, etc.
So.... does Pine really still maintain a user-base? If so, what would be the reasons for these users sticking with Pine? (As you can see, I'm not a Pine fan ;), but anyways, I'd like to hear from those who are...).
I for one really don't care about Pine that much as as mail program. I love Pico, the wonderful little text editor that comes with it. Yeah I know there's the GPL nano, but I'm still pico all the way, and put it on every unix machine I use. It's nice to see that the one app I use probably more than any other is still in development.
i dont think anyone realizes that your post is a joke.
Careful, captain. Some of us are still using Pine.
Of course I'm not surprised by the reaction. My mother saw me sshing to my box once and said "Oh God, that brings back horrible memories..." Who says that UI has nothing to do with End User acceptance? Me personally: I love it. But to most people its like "Why do you go out hunting with a bow and arrow when we can get perfectly good meat down at the Kroger?"
Pine Users: the Ted Nugents of the Computing World!
What is music when you despise all sound?
Evolution in motion eh Hemos? As opposed to evolution which doesn't go forward, or uhh..
sig:
See the "..for smart people" banners Wired runs here? Look elsewhere guys.
Pine is a great email program. Using only a console it somehow manages to be easier to use than most GUI programs. The error messages are an example of brilliant UI design.
Unfortunatly the licence is not good. While the source is available, distributing changed versions is illegal. This for example makes it illegal for Debian to fix its paths and distribute it, or for me to make a graphical version (anyone remember xpine?)
That means I've now given up on it. Fortunatly there are fairly good replacements, like mutt with pine bindings, or kmail via aalib.
..."because it's slow and messy"...
.
Pine was nice 10 years ago, easier to figure out (for me) than elm, nicer than mail and Mail. But, well, changes take a damned long time coming, and some things (like newsgroup support) seemed to be added for "gee whiz" reasons before things that make reading large mailing lists useful (like threading).
As others have said, most everyone with patience to learn something else has moved on. Most of the people I know have moved on to mutt. And yes, someone's pointed out to me the default keybindings match elm. I guess as you grow and learn . .
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --H.L. Mencken
I thought it was?
Ah well, I always use it. It's part of slackware, which is all I ever needed to set up any servers.
It's pretty good. A little feature light and glitchy.
Like if you wrap text past the screen, it has a nasty habit of starting a newline, so you have to delete the newline, etc. Pain in the ass for long lines in config files.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
A quick search on the changelog reveals nothing improved about the years-old problems with Pine and S/MIME. It simply can't invoke plugins for GPG to check or generate messages that have the GPG signature as an attachment. Which means that 80% of the GPG-signed email that I get is useless and that Pine still does not handle the S/MIME RFC. (The other 20% is handled by patches or stopgaps.) :)
Sigh. I know Mutt is better, but I still use Pine 4.44. I just don't trust those scripts that add Pine keybindings to Mutt..
That's all, nothing more to see here. Move along...
Mark
PS: Couldn't resist.
Score: -1 (Troll)
The Web is like Usenet, but
the elephants are untrained.
Question: How does Pine's IMAP client implementation compare to Mutt's? Insight or experience anyone?
I've been thinking of setting up my own IMAP server.... [Offtopic] Cyrus or courier-imap server? Advantages or disadvantages of each?
There even exists a perl script to help the transition: pine2mutt (disclaimer: I still use pine).
I've been using Pine ever since I first had access to a shell account (at my school) in 1998. I don't particularily care about the license, as I don't develop in it. I don't particularily care that it doesn't handle newsgroups very well, as I rely on Google Groups for newsreading (I don't post). I could go on.
It's a simple interface, with everything documented WITHIN THE PROGRAM (main reason I don't use vi), and best of all, it comes with Pico, which I think is the most cool, kickass little text editor. Pico on my servers combined with Putty on my Win2k workstation equals easy code and script editing.
Anyway, just my two simolians.
is improved, but not new: it has been there in some form since at least version 4.30.
And don't forget about pico (pine composer), which has been making bad programmers worse for more years than I care to remember.
-Stype
Bus error -- driver executed.
I've never seen an elm vs pine flame war. Most of us that have been using elm, look at all pine users as newbies and just ignore them.
I 1st got pine from mod.sources in 1986 and I've been using it ever since. (newbies can group google for v06i031). Its open source thanks to HP.
Anyone else remember the early exploits where people would email vt100 sequences to reprogram the keys so the next time you hit F1 it would "own" your system? Elm was one of the 1st programs to attempt to fix that.
I have found that copy and paste (from somewhere else, into pine/pico) using highlight/middle button in X sessions results in a tangled mess -- particularly if it's over some other text, this text is overwritten and whatnot.
Does anyone know if the new version of pine&pico has fixed this problem? I find it to be a big obstacle to useability. Merci.
I am quite civilized, and I should be brought a beer immediately. -- Bruce Sterling
pico also has this option, I've made it a common habit to *always* pico -w (file). Also adding a +number opens pico the specified line of a file. Or, if you can use ^W then ^T to go to that line once pico is opened.
I can totally relate. I started with Elm and was forced to switch to pine many years ago when our sysadmin decided to overhaul the system to his likings. After a week or so, I got used to Pine and have been using it ever since. I haven't even tried Mutt as Pine works fine for me.
Maybe I'll give Mutt & Nano a try this weekend. Or maybe sometime around 2005. Who knows.
As some of you are aware, all of the UW email servers allow you to login and use pine to read your email after seeing a screen with some other stuff and this:
E - email: Electronic mail (Pine version 4.44)
So maybe they haven't gotten around to it yet...
Well, not many people may realize it, but the UW has been working on a newer version of Pine then what was just released. Many schools have their own webmail program (UW had this really bad one for a while), but UW has been developing what it calls Webpine for a long time now accessable at webpine.washington.edu if you're a UW student (links to find out more are on the page. It works pretty well, when accessing my old UW email account, I generally log into webpine (I don't have shell access anymore so normal pine is out the window). Given time, and ways to speed the process up for those of us unfortunate enough to be on dialup (broadband isn't always the fastest for some parts of it either), and this could be really good. It's written at least partially in tcl.
Go Stanford! Beat Cal!
sulli
RTFJ.
Try the -w flag... "disable word-wrap".
There's mouse support too (kind of a hack though), try -m.
-Josh O-
Then, I tried mutt. After a few minutes I was hooked. I now use mutt for all of my mail. I think its ability to seamlessly integrate with GPG was the biggest factor in convincing me to switch.
Yes I admit it, I still use pine even if its not free software. Why? Its to my knownledge the only email client that supports remote imap properly. By that I mean one that doesnt try to re-download the whole list of all messages in the folder like mutt (Very usefull with huge folders). Evolution would probably do the job as it keeps a local copy. But it was way to unstable the last time I tried it. And I need something that I can use over the network.
Any mutt user can tell me if mutt now supports imap properly? And don't tell me gnus is the solution, even if I'm starting to consider it...
stty sane
stty erase ^H
stty erase ^\?
It's not a bug in pine, it's a bug in your termcap database.
If they have the IMAP stuff turned on for Exchange 2k, you can run Pine as an IMAP client against Exchange. I do this when I'm suspicous about a mail message and don't trust Outlook.
It's kind of amusing to do it, and more functional than using lynx with Outlook Web Access..
I've been using PINE for a long time; this does not make me a power user of PINE so much as someone who has eventually had a very few useful bits of information blasted at me enough to have left a small groove in my brain like a flatworm. (Right animal I'm thinking of?) Here's one thing that I hope you find useful: how to use PINE's filters.
:)
:)
:) Scroll down, ignoring a few sections, to the section "ACTIONS BEGIN HERE" and the subsection "Filter action =" Go down to the line "Folder List = " and hit return (again, this is the way you get a text entry field). Type in the name of a folder to which you would like the dreck blasted; "spam" is what I call mine. If the folder does not yet exist, PINE will prompt you and ask if you want to create it; this is a useful catch in case you accidentally try to filter it to "span" instead.
:) If it corresponds to a piece of spam currently in your inbox, you should see a message like "moving one filtered message to "spam.""
:)
Many people, in fact, don't realize that PINE has a very nice filter system. Yes, there *is* a fine manual for pine, but not that many pithy HOWTOs. Or maybe there are -- google searches eventually brought this information to light for me, and I'm just paraphrasing it here for your convenience
So. Let's say you use pine, and want to stop, interrogate and file away from your sensitive eyeballs all email that contains the giveaway snippet "this email cannot be considered spam". Here's a step-by-step guide -- it's only this long to provide assurance; once you start the process, you can probably ignore my steps and simply follow the on-screen prompts.
1) fire up pine if it's not already running.
2) Hit "M" if you're not at the Main screen. My PINE session is setup to take me straight to my inbox, but yours may already bring you right to your main screen, but at any rate hitting M can't hurt
3) (OK, this is really three steps in one) Hit "S" for Setup; Hit "R" for Rules; Hit "F" for Filter, because that's the type of Rule you want to add.
6) The screen you're now looking at is a bit intimidating, but it's really like a gruff pal who is actually friendly once you're past his exterior. Highlighted already is a line that says "No Value Set: using "Filter Rule": at this point, hit return and give your filter an appropriate name. I usually say something like "[keyword description] [(reason)]" -- in this case, I'd make it "this email cannot be considered spam (spam)." From here on out, use your arrow keys or tab around to fill in the relevant information.
7) Let's do this example section by section.
In the top section, the one headed by the line "CURRENT FOLDER CONDITIONS BEGIN HERE," you most likely will not have to do anything; the default is probably to make the filter affect your inbox, which is what I (and I'm guessing most people) usually want.
8) Next section, "FILTERED MESSAGE CONDITIONS BEGIN HERE," that is, looks more complicated than it is. You can ignore the fields you don't care about by just leaving them blank. If you were trying to block all messages from "stalker99@aol.com," you would put that address in the field labeled "From pattern." In our present example, go down to the field "AllText pattern," hit return to give yourself an input field, and type in (or paste in) "this email cannot be considered spam". In fact, "cannot be considered spam" by itself might be even smarter. I avoid punctuation in my spam filters; you want matches, and shorter phrases give more matches.
9) Almost done
10) Hit "E" to "Exit Setup." When PINE asks "Commit changes ("Yes" replaces settings, "No" abandons changes)? " hit Y for Yes. You now have a filter in place!
11) Return to you inbox; "M" for Main and "I" for inbox should do it. If your filter was well applied, you should be down one spam
Note: you can set up filters on ingoing mail for your friends as well as the jerks of the world; you can filter all mail from your old buddies to a folder "pals," and mail from coworkers to "job_mail," etc, by using the "From pattern" field rather than the AllText pattern, for instance.
Then, to read your sorted email, look in the folders you have created, because the incoming messages will be sorted into them. i.e., if you create a "friends" folder, you must open that folder to see the mail which has been sorted into it.
This is a very incomplete look at PINE's filters, but I hope it is useful to you. If you explore the options available on the filter creation page, for instance, you can see that you can also sent junk mail straight to the toilet by deleting it unread; this has resulted in some false positives for me, so I try not to do this any more.
Cheers,
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Do you PINE for the nice days when men were men and user real mail programs? :-)
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If you moderate this, then your children will be next.
Why is it an ugly hack?
It's secure. It's quick and easy.
I'm at an internet cafe right now. It's much easier and fast for me to download putty and ssh to my box than to wait for 20 minutes for mozilla to download, then for me to install it and to set it up etc. Then I have to remember to uninstall it when I leave the cafe, so that others don't get my info/headers that may get left behind.
Not to mention it leaves another port open on my box for the world to see. I'd much rather just have port 22 open.
I agree with your comment, imap over ssl is nice, but it's not always easy or quick. I also can't see why you'd call it an ugly hack?
Tim
Heheh actually, now that you mention it, I HAVE replaced pico with nano on the machines I most often use that stuff with (webserver, etc). Search/Replace was a godsend.
Than something like an SSH client.
At the local university and work, the more IMAP client connects the same as my IMAP clients at home do to my mail spool. I consider it a hack to do it via SSH, since SSH was designed for interactive login sessions. In many cases, most of the people for whom I provide email do not have an actual UNIX account on my system. That is why it is a hack: it requires extra accounts and other potentially dangerous settings (like allowing logins via password, instead of private key) to allow remote SSH use from anywhere. I'd much rather people trashed the live copy of my mail spool than my home dir, since it's a lot easier to backup and restore my mail spool.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I guess I'm one of those three.
The more you know, the less you understand.
I'm running the plain 4.44 RPM from Red Hat 7.3, and only run an IMAP server on my machine. Pine works fine.
/etc/pine.conf, set inbox-path to "Maildir"
1. In [S]setup/[C]onfig, set inbox-path to "{yourimapserver.com}INBOX"
2. In
Maybe I don't understand the problem you're having, but pine works fine for me with Maildir. Love it.
-- http://frobnosticate.com
You know, I really have not seen such a debate get as bad as the whole Vi vs. Emacs thing. Infact, Pine contributes positively to the Vi/Emacs debate because it also comes with Pico.... something Vi and Emacs users can unite together to hate. Heh...
Anyway, I personally use Pine for email and Vi for editing. ^_^;
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
:1,$s/search/replace/g
Not that hard...
----- One piece short of Legoland
Since the biggest objection I can see to PINE is the licensing (and since it's already installed on the system which receives my email, it's not something which bothers me, even, and I stress *even* if it otherwise would), I wonder why UWashington does not give in and dual-license it.
:)
... why not?
Even a one-time release of a particular code snapshot under the GPL or BSD or [insert license] (with no intention of coordinating any further development of that branch) would / should satisfy most of the complainers
This is just an off-the-cuff thought, but
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Regarding threading, how do you set up gnus email if you're not an experienced programmer but do have gnus newsgroups running in emacs?... Most explanations have been too complicated for novices to set up gnus email. oo__ dsaklad@gnu.org
I havent tried it yet, but IMAP and POP over SSH are even available in Outlook XP.
Jeremy
Lucky bastards, you guys had more(1)? We had to use dd(1) to read our mail.
I dunno, I think the sentence "Script is to C as ebonics is to Latin" redeemed it.
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PGP Key ID 0xCB8FF658
You probably mean over SSL or over an SSH forwarded port (which looks exactly the same as a normal local listener port to the client).
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I would still argue that allowing remote logins of any sort soley for mail reading is analagous to using a machine gun to kill flies :)
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
You can use ldap address books, however, you could only bind to the LDAP server as an anonymous user, which doesn't work in many LDAP environments.
Anyone know if this has been fixed in any recent patches? I didn't see it listed, but was hoping I missed it.
I've never seen an elm vs pine flame war. Most of us that have been using elm, look at all pine users as newbies and just ignore them.
You may not have seen such, but boy, are you ever trying hard to start one.
Nothing like demonstrating one's l33tness by showing that you can figure out how to use Foo email client instead of Baz email client. Yessiree, that sure is badass.
May we never see th
I have tried them all (mail readers) and I always find myself going back to pine. I keep a USB keychain drive with me that has a nice SSH client for every OS I may run across -- and I can get to my mail from anywhere. (and on a slow connection -- this is much better than those "heavy html" based mail reader "emulators" that you kids are using these days...)
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
She used Pine over Telnet in her university and learned to like it. One day I was putting together a new home-computer for her family (Windows, Outlook Express, the basic stuff). As I was configuring Outlook for her she commented "Outlook... blah! I hate it! Give me my Pine and Telnet back!". I asked her that is she serious, and she was!
At that moment, I came really close of asking her to marry me.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
MUTT with PINE bindings!
-adnans
"In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people." --Linus Torvalds
Along those lines, why hasn't "survival of the fittest" killed pine off yet? :-)
The good thing about PuTTY is that the downloable .EXE is the entire program. There's no installer and thus the application can be run from even the most locked down of machines with little difficulty.
I actually spent a year studying at a uni in germany. They had so locked down windows boxes I couldn't even get putty or mirc running. Only approved(tm) programs there. That was actually the biggest reason I shelled out for a laptop.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
When you want to sort your mail, so the newest messages arrive at the top (normal for anyone who reads a LOT of mail), you set Pine to sort by "Reverse Arrival". Using the patch, I hit 'k', and now I expose threads, but ONLY the first message of the thread is sorted in reverse-arrival mode (as it should be). All replies to that thread are shown consecutively underneath it in normal arrival mode (replace dots for spaces, Slashdot strips them):
With the threading in the new Pine 4.5, without using the threading patch (which was written by wash.edu, btw), you get:
And there's no way to stop it. Sorting by Reverse-Arrival hides threads.
Sorting by Threads sorts upside-down (as above).
Sorting by Reverse-Threads puts new messages at the bottom.
I've been a happy user of Pine for 10 years (or however long it has been out), but I can't upgrade to this when such a core function is non-working like this (incidentally, don't tell me to try mutt, I've tried mutt, and it can't even come remotely close in features to what last-year's pine can do, not to mention the exploitable holes with mutt's file browser).
I guess I'll report this again, and hope that Eduardo can come up with a quick patch to fix it.
my bad, i meant SSL or course.
Jeremy