Slashdot Mirror
Terra Soft Reveals Linux/PPC Hardware Solution
Gentu writes "OSNews features an article revealing a new product from Terra Soft, makers of the popular PPC Linux distribution Yellow Dog Linux, which effectively enables YDL to run on its own platform. Terra Soft is offering a motherboard and a complete PC based on the 600MHz G3 (G4 is also planned). This is of course still PPC, but it ain't a Mac. However, the article hints that it might be technically possible to run Mac OS and Mac OS X via Mac-On-Linux." Prices start at about $500, with 1U rackmounts starting at $870.
Looks like a nice system. A little slow, but I guess there's more of the slower CPUs available these days, and it does keep the price down.
Come to the University of Mars! Classes starting soon!
I would LOVE to use Mac OSX at home. The only problem is buying that expensive Apple hardware, maybe this would be a good solution...
I'm not sure it's something I'll rush out to buy, but it does sound interesting, if for no other reason than to add another dev/compile server to the stack we have at work.
Cobalt RaQ 4, IBM B50, generic 1U PC, Sun Netra X1, Apple Xserve.
Now if only SGI would make a 2P, 1U server. How thick is SGI's 4P Origin 300? 2U?
It is nice to see that the PCI bus is now commonly used in *all* desktop computers (Atari, Amiga, Mac and IBM Compatibles). This makes it so much easier to buy devices and to find/port drivers. I remember Atari's old HDD interface that forced me into buying a really expensive Atari HDD instead of a much cheaper IDE driver...
I'm curious if anyone knows if the FULL range of MAC apps run under MAC on linux. It's great if these apps run native or near native speed on this hard/software combo but I think it would be prudent to wait until the G4 version is available just for the power. Also, is this competitive, price wise, with say, buying an old G3?
In fact, probably even the new EPIA-M board is a better deal for many applications; the EPIA-M costs $160 with processor, uses a 933MHz C3 (Pentium compatible), is tiny, and uses comparatively little power. And if you buy one of those, you don't even give money to the other monopoly.
I hate to nitpick... but it's "Mac", not "MAC".
Mac is short for Macintosh, a series of computers sold by Apple Computer Inc.
FreeBSD 5.0 will have a PPC port. I wonder if it will run on this hardware? I imagine the only requirement is an OpenFirmware BIOS for booting.
Interesting here that YDL are trying to "pimp" it as there platform, but with other PPC linux distros making there way along then it does give you a nice choice for a cheap linux desktop solution.
Yes it might be cheaper to buy x86, but what about these people who want to experiment on new platforms? Also the reason why x86 is cheaper is due to mass demand, i imagin that if they get a lot of sales of these PPC mobos then the prices will drop
I personally is very interested in getting one of these just to experiance PPC, strange as it may sound but ive never really touched a PPC based platform in my life! (dont ask me how to modify BIOS settings or whatever on a Mac :))
"What do you mean you have no ice? Do you expect me to drink this coffee hot?" - Random Customer, Clerks
It's the IBM PowerPC 750CXe.
.18 micron process.
.13 micron with all of the buzzwords (silicon-on-insulator, etc).
This is the slightly older version of the PPC 750 "G3". This 750 CXe model has 256 KB of on-die L2 cache and is fabbed at a
The newer 750 FX model (as used in the current Apple iBooks) has 512 KB of on-die L2 cache and is fabbed at
I belive this board uses PC133 RAM. 133 MHz x 4.5
the 17" widescreen iMac is quite nice... but not for $2000. I wish it was available with a plain DVD-ROM/CD-RW "combo" drive rather than the DVD-RW/CD-RW "superdrive", though. Save a few bucks that way.
It's a temping little machine, in fact it's almost moreso an executive system than a home/school machine. But right now I can get a refurbished single cpu G4 tower and a 19" samsung DVI monitor for the same price.
It's not mentioned in the story, but this board is the Teron CX, which is also distributed under the licensed trademark "AmigaOne G3-SE".
There's also a model with the CPU on an exchangeable module, called Teron PX (or "AmigaOne XE" when it's marketed to AmigaOS users). Hopefully we'll see Terrasoft and others selling Teron PX as well, which offers G4 and 750FX (a newer, faster G3 design) CPUs.
Due to a seriously fscked up compulsory licensing policy for AmigaOS, that OS will however not be sold separate from licensed hardware and be allowed to be installed on Teron boards from vendors who are not licensed by Amiga, Inc., like Terrasoft.
P.S. Why is this story under "Apple"? MOL runs fine on these, but come on!
Help savingAmigaOS and a free PowerPC market
What I don't get is why they need the fan. Why don't they just slap on a bigger heatsink.
I don't like fans in my computer, they're noisy. Loss the fan and they got a nice system.
True, that. Would be even cooler if they'd use the PPC 750FX. That would bring the on-die L2 cache up to 512 KB plus would use even less power due to the smaller process, smaller die size.
Since it's a PPC, skr1pt k1dd1ez will have a whole lotta trouble trying to crack it with cut-and-paste x86 rootkits. Of course, it will not stop a knowledgeble attacker and is not at all a substitute for applying errata in a timely fashion, but it's still a significant plus in my book. And if you use YDL, it will be nearly identical in every feature to your x86 Red Hat Linux boxen.
I can totally see it running as a firewall/external webserver/DNS server box. Of course, granted that TerraSoft mobos aren't POS. Only time and wide use will tell.
If you open yourself to the foo, You and foo become one.
Thinking of building a beowulf cluster in your home?
Think again. You may need special power wiring and air conditioning to handle a rack with any significant number of CPUs in it.
But one should be able to build a PowerPC beowulf cluster that is powered by household AC and still get a significant number of CPUs on the rack, and not have to add air conditioning to the room.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
Can anyone explain the fascination with running OS X on non-Apple hardware? the beauty of OS X (imho) is that it finally offers elegantly designed and powerful software for elegantly designed and powerful hardware, why the urge to stick it in some nasty biege box?
You DO know that MacOS no longer uses a hardware bootrom, right? And that you CAN copy the bootROM off of any MacOSX install.
MacOnLinux actually comes with documentation telling you how to do this, since some people can have trouble getting to bootrom to load off the OSX partition, so they copy it to their linux partition, then tell MOL to load it from there.
This is where I get my recommended daily allowance of "Foot in Mouth."
Mentor Arc originally developed their power PC board as a reference board for embedded systems dedicated to a particular purpose. You see, most embedded systems don't use general purpose motherboards but build their own custom board around a reference, hence the added value. The Mentor Arc board was so unreliable that it's no surprise that they finally opened up to the idea of general purpose computing in the end. As wonderful as custom boards are, sometimes you need to let the customer figure out what to do with it so you can work out the kinks.
Did you also notice how much 'cleaner' the board looks? Boards get pretty when you don't have to pump 100 watts of juice to the CPU. The beauty of the PPC architecture is in it's SIMPLICITY. I find almost everything is better on the RISC side of the fence.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
Apple desktops really do not get hot inside. Maybe some of the really fast ones do now, but the G3 is cooler running than the G4 (hence the G4 TiBooks being hot). Even the new windtunnel G4s are not supposed to be really hot... just some planning for the future (and bad choice of fans according to people who have swapped them out).
any G4 i have opened and poked or licked (ok, not licked) while running "processor intensive" things (yeah yeah i know.... bad me) has been very cool.... my G4 heatsink is as cool as anything else in the box (1 case fan and 1 fan in powersupply). When people say the PPC chips use less power and generate less heat they are not kidding. My housemate has older Intel boxes (running Linux and BSD, it's ok) and they literally raise the temp of his room.... my G4 blows cold air out the back. go figure.
offhand i don't think anything from Apple has had a fan on the processor.... even the newest dual 1.25GHz machines have a fan blowing across the heatsink on the processors, but nothing like the standard Intel/AMD thing of the mini fan attached to the chip itself. i guess that is part of the reason Macs are generally quieter (if they have a fan at all)..... those mini fans have a terrible sound. i disabled the one on my Radeon7500 because it sounded like a food processor full of gravel. the case is cool enough that it didn't seem to matter anyway.
The only question is, will it run OpenBSD's PPC port? Now that would be a secure machine!
1u.
i think that wraps that up as to 'why they didnt use a taller/bigger sink without fan'.
they mention they'll (try) to sell the newer chip later..
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I hope they sell some of the machines though. After all, choice is always a good thing.
---
Open Source Shirts
What exactly are they doing when they say 'sharing'?
Hard to tell for sure from the picture, but they probably mean physical sharing of the space. I.e., if you've got an AGP card installed, there's just no room for a card in the first PCI slot, and vice versa. Just like some old PCI + ISA mobos, where there was one card position that could be either ISA or PCI (two connectors, one mounting bracket position).
-- Alastair
Well, as I understand it the board really has four PCI slots and one AGP slot, but if you use the fourth PCI slot you kill the AGP slot. Don't ask me why.
I choose to remain celibate, like my father and his father before him.
The specs in the article don't make any reference to having on-board Ethernet, but in the pictures it looks like there's an RJ-45 connector on the board. Anyone know for sure? That'd be very useful. I seem to recall the POP spec including Ethernet, so it probably does.
-- Alastair
Another plus is that Palladium would not available for this platform and MS would have no handle on them either.
this is an open source board. running open source software. in an alienware caes!? i want green!
if this architecture allows for the ibm 970, a really nice open platform will be available.
Well, it was originally intended as a developer's evaluation board for Mai Logic's Articia S chip set. As a bonus for us users it turned out to be quite a usable end-customer board, although its developer/evaluation roots are still clearly visible in the PCB design, choice of components and specs.
;)
Look at this photo of a "Pegasos" PPC mobo. It's a mobo similar to the Teron CX (it's the same Articia S northbridge for example), but on a much smaller Micro-ATX board, including a slot for CPU modules (including not-yet-available dual G4). Just looking at a thing as the PCB trace routing, or the choice of common components like resistors, caps et c. says this is a more well thought out design, originally aimed at the consumer market. It's cheaper too, and runs Yellow Dog Linux...
Help savingAmigaOS and a free PowerPC market
Very true.
Terra Soft's BriQ might be a better solution for some people since it is smaller (fits in a 5.25 bay) and available now. I really think they are well suited to lots of different uses. clusters, monitoring, IDS, logging, security devices.
Of course these new boards will be more expanadable and a little cheaper. Just depends on what you want it for.
Ignore the replies saying that it means the same physical slot/backplane. Well, OK, the huge cooling fans on a modern AGP card would cover the closest PCI slot...
The AGP 2x slot and the 66 MHz PCI slot share the same bus. The speed of that bus will be determined by the slowest device on the bus. If you use a 33 MHz PCI card in the slot adjacent to the AGP slot, your AGP will be clocked down to 33 MHz.
Help savingAmigaOS and a free PowerPC market
In any case, I actually doubt that "G3 kicks the bejeezus out of the EPIA". I have both an iMac and an 800MHz EPIA, and I actually run compute-intensive stuff on them.. A 400MHz G3 is probably no faster than a 400MHz P3, and a 933MHz C3 probably is somewhere around a 300MHz P3 since the 800MHz C3 comes in at around the same speed or faster as a 250MHz P3 in the benchmarks I tried.
As for gcc maturity, the C3 is Pentium compatible. Linux just runs on it. If it's not as well optimized, that only means that there is more room for improvement over the above comparison; PPC optimization for gcc looks like a done deal--it won't get much better. What I do know from personal experience is that "porting" to the EPIA or any desktop PC is much easier than to the iMac/PPC: again, code just runs, while on PPC, you face byte order issues and x86 assembly doesn't work (e.g., for MPEG codecs).
The Teron CX is one of the two boards that will be sold under the licensed "AmigaOne" trademark. The other is the Teron PX. Read this comment. There will be no more "new Amigas".
Graphics? It's whatever AGP card there's drivers for.
The Pegasos, designed by the old Amiga gurus at bplan, is a similar board, but in a smaller Micro-ATX form factor, minus one PCI slot, plus a slot for CPU modules (the G3/600 is soldered down on the Teron CX), plus Firewire, plus on-board sound I/O including SPDIF (the Terons have an AMR slot), plus IrDA, plus a game port.
The Pegasos is cheaper than the Teron CX when that is sold as an "AmigaOne", and slightly more expensive than the Teron CX sold "normally" by e.g. Terrasoft.
Help savingAmigaOS and a free PowerPC market
Except performance! Seriously, though, who gives a flying f* how 'clean' the board is?
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
new world macs don't have ROMs. no macintosh model made since the beige G3 has ROMs. But the version of Open Firmware has to be able to enumerate the device tree in a fashion that OS X can understand. I notice that the article didn't seem to mention what sort of firmware (PROM, BIOS, etc) these motherboards use...
i have a 500MHz G3 iMac, among others, and the worst part about it isn't the processor (which encodes MP3s twice as fast as my 933MHz P3 at work), but the half-assed video chipset that came with it. the fact that these boards have an agp slot keeps the machines from being locked into that sort of problem.