Slashdot Mirror
Wal-Mart Lindows PCs Selling Well
andyring writes "CNN.com is reporting that sales of the $199 PCs have exceeded expectations. Although CNN terms them "full fledged, if low power," it seems customers don'd mind all that much if their computer does not run Windows and doesn't carry an Intel processor. Slashdot covered two reviews of those machines July 4."
But my other question is this: I wonder how many of the computers have copies of windows installed on them by the end user? Be it transfered (old PC doesn't work, so put Win95 on this new one) or coppied.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
it seems customers don'd mind all that much if their computer does not run Windows and doesn't carry an Intel processor
Is having an Intel CPU still that big a deal to the average consumer? I know they still blow a ton of cash on advertising how a P4 will "make the internet faster" and the like, but does your average consumer care? They obviously care about Windows, not because it's Windows but because Deer Hunter 8 or 3D Home Recipe Book VI won't run on anything else. But the CPU?
"When it rains, it pours." --Morton's Salt
... how can this be anything but good for Linux?
Consider - the biggest excuse that people have used about Linux has been "nobody uses it, so nobody writes software for it."
Well, people are using it, now. This is the opportunity for Linux to show that it is, indeed, useful for everyday users... or not.
Face it - this is going to be Linux's baptism by fire. Let's try hoping that it survives, instead of making half-witticisms about Wal-Mart shoppers.
Strike while the irony is hot! -- The Freethinker
These things don't come with monitors, modems, etc. I'd be really surprised if novices are buying these things. I guess they might be if they are getting the "extra-price-items"... like a monitor.
These seem like geek toys. Or maybe as a CPU upgrade for those with old PC's.
Sex - Find It
Take a reality pill. How many of the people buying Lindows PCs are actually leaving Linux in place? And how many are taking their bootleg copy of Windows 2k (or whatever) and installing that?
Remeber the hype of emachines? They were medicro PC's for a reasonable price. Reasonable until there was a technical challenge. Hopefully these won't see the same negative consumer backlash. The Linux community can not afford the humiliation. I fear the "not-us" technical pit.
If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
It doesn't matter what slashdot readers think of them. That's not who they're marketed toward. I think a better question is what your grandma/neighbor/any other non computer saavy person thinks about them.
I planned on inserting something witty here but never got around to it.
Whatever floats your boat I suppose. Since no one is trying to sell a service, then probably no ones cares at all. My only question is, "How well does XP run on this box?" Unlike Linux, XP won't just run on anything effectively.
My grand-dad went to buy a computer at a big chain store. He just wanted to look around on the web and email some friends/family. The sales droid tried to sell him a P4 2Ghz with all the bells and whistles. I ended up putting to gether a Duron 1.2G for $250 that does all he wants to do. Unless you are a big game freak or a geek (like most of us), people just don't need that much computing power.
Michael Loves Me!
All of them...
but that is not what is important. At least not to me, it is surely of importance to M$ but not because of the pirated version of XP but because people may start to realize it is possible to buy PC's without Windows on it.
It is of HUGE significance that PC's are going to be sold at Wal-Mart without Windows period. MS thought they had won this war. Doesn't matter if the setup sux or not. Because if a place as common as Wal-Mart is selling non MS PC's it is a huge deal to them. It is the smart thing to do for Wal-Mart and that is why Wal-Mart rox. They are not afraid to take some chances.
The big PC dealers all got too lazy to sell PC's without doze. This may get them to rethink that strategy.
These things sell well for the same reason that Deer Hunter is a bestselling game and Microsoft became an empire selling Windows:
For the vast majority of people, price is way more important than quality. If it's cheap and reasonably useable, people will buy it in large numbers.
More likely, they used Win ME rather than XP if they did such a thing - Joe Sixpack won't be able to bypass the XP activation procedure. I'm actually rather glad Microsoft introduced it - as long as Windows cost essentially the same as Linux (the price of a blank CD-R), people didn't care, now they may be starting to vote with their wallets.
"There are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare." - Blair Houghton
I think this is further proof that PCs (hardware and software) are becoming commodity goods. Customers don't care about bells and whistles, they just want to browse the web and do email. The really scary thing is, people are starting to realize that you don't need expensive hardware and software to do the basic things most people do.
I think this is an excellent opportunity for small PC manufacturers, and maybe even OpenSource projects, to get their feet in customers' doors. And big vendors (cough Microsoft cough) should be afraid. Very afraid.
---
Open Source Shirts
Yes, $200 for a computer that does the things that most people need sounds great, and I'm excited to see it selling well. In fact, I am considering buying one to set up as a general purpose linux box.
One must remember, however, that Wal-Mart is a large corporation just like Microsoft . . . and it has a history of pouring money into stores and selling inventory at a loss to kill off competition. Though I doubt it may happen any time soon, if large numbers of users start flocking to the "Wal-Mart" PC, Microsoft may lose its footing in the operating system market, but would a market dominated by Wal-Mart be healthy?
Just something to think about.
I dont think 22% is "a little higher", but thats the problme many people have they never stop to look at how much more they have to work to support a government..
What does, concern me, however is the security of Lindows boxes. Most "average" users, while not complete idiots, don't often understand concepts behind the "root" user, security exploits, etc.
Hopefully the default Lindows install has been secured reasonably.
The problem exists with Windows machines, as well.
However, if a major security hole is found and exploited on these Lindows machines, Microsoft's PR department WILL use it to try to destroy the credibility of Linux as a whole.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
Who cares, who goes to Wal-Mart to buy CD's anyway.
Isn't that what Microsoft was saying would happen if Windows wasn't required to be preloaded on every computer in America? Do you feel bad proving them right?
Kill Trolls Dead. Here's
I'll bet 70% of the people buying the WalMart machines think they have Pentiums in them!! After all, they've been conditioned to accept that all computers have Pentium processors... it's only if you explicitly say "this does NOT have a Pentium" that you get those funny looks and people start to doubt. Most people think Macs have Pentiums - go ahhead and ask!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Congratulations, you are not in the target demographic for this machine which is non-computer savvy tightwads who want basic computer functionality.
In response to a few criticisms of Lindows proprietary software:
Quite frankly, I think Lindows is the best chance to topple the MS empire, because of the software itself and the business plan/model behind it. Once people are using Lindows, its a few steps from there to more traditional GNU/Linux distros.
Lindows is, quite frankly, very easy to use -- even for newbies. You can't underestimate how important that is for the typical user. Remember, your parents even have a hard time using Windows or MacOS!
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
I see a lot of people suggesting that it's likely that most of these cheap computers end up getting wiped clean and having Windows installed. However, I'd like to point out that most computer manufacturers and resellers are locking themselves into really bad situations with Microsoft only because they believe they can't sell these computers without an OS or with an OS other than Windows. Wal-Mart is proving otherwise. So, even if these computers get wiped clean, perhaps other major computer resellers will take note of the fact that they can sell their quality computers without having to lock themselves into the Microsoft trap. If you think about it, this could dramatically alter the way computers are sold in the very near future.
....they should really look at this and attempt to partner up with Wal-Mart and produce a Linux version of AOL. They're desperate for revenue right now, and appealing to the $200 PC market would be a good niche to get in on. They could have sold a $250 version which includes a "free" year of AOL or something. Still not a bad deal to the price-conscious shopper.
A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
OK, I'm a physician, not a techie (I read slashdot because it's so hard to find anything else intelligent to read). So perhaps I can provide the "Joe Schmoe" perspective.
I wanted to confirm what people are saying about the average Joe Schmoe not needing computer power. I'm still running an AMD K6 200 MHz processor from 1997. I have a DSL connection and Win 98SE (shudder). I surf the web with IE6, run Yahoo! Messenger, and check email with Eudora, typically all at once, often while also playing bridge on M$N Zone (sorry, M$-haters, it's the best free bridge I've found!).
I couldn't sell this box for anything, let alone $200, yet it does everything I want to do. Sure, it slows down a bit when I use everything at once, but not enough to go out and spend money. If you're a Joe Schmoe like me.
So you're right. The common man doesn't need a monster CPU, etc. That being said, don't forget that usability is key. Most people will be completely unable to surf the web and send email if they have to do too much more than plug it in, turn it on, and follow some very user-friendly instructions. If the Lindows box can't do this, it's not going to do very well.
So, can it? I hear people saying that it doesn't even come with a monitor?
Another target user would be the low-budget buyer who isn't willing to put out the extra $100 for an MS license and sees that the boxes do what (s)he wants.
The third would probably be someone with enough money that 'blowing' $200 to find out about Linux seems entirely worth it.
I've generally been of the opinion that one of the biggest barriers to general Linux acceptance is the difficulty in finding a box with anything other than MS pre-loaded. Although I find Linux installs easier than Windows installs, it's still a pain in the butt. Most users aren't willing to buy a bare bones system w/ a separate OS and then waste their time on an install while risking being blocked by some odd incompatibility (e.g. not being able to differentiate hardware failure from installer error).
These Wall Mart boxes are pretty much the first mass-market over-the-counter Linux boxes for the masses. I may have misgivings about Lindows' software practices, but it's definitely nice to see Linux bozes in the aisles this Christmas.
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
Ok, so maybe it's not a law, but here's my take on the situation.
Windows costs a lot. See my soon to be written essay on monopolies and excessive profits.
Intel chips cost a lot. Read my thoughts on comparative advantage.
Consumers will pay excessive prices for OS software until a suitable substitution is found.
Enter Lindows and Lycoris for OS, and VIA for the processor. Consumers are the judge and jury as to whether or not these "substitutions" are adequate. Preliminary sales data says: maybe.
The non-windows companies even admit to attempting to create a viable substitute:
"Spisak says his Desktop/LX software is modeled to look like Windows XP. "We've basically taken this as far as you can go without being prosecuted," he said.
I'm interested to see if this is a flash in the pan before the monopolistic powers that be quash the effort with lawsuits, or if it's the first step toward a more appropriately priced Micro$oft OS.
Time will tell...
My aunt works at Wal-mart, and until I spoke with her I didn't realize how huge wal-mart is. If they get a product stocked at their stores that can literally make a company. Huge companies like Proctor and Gamble have to divert production when Wal-mart wants to run a special on their products. If Wal-mart is buying that can stop production for ANYTHING ELSE If we could only get these machines in the stores now.
ideas should be free
- WalMart does not sell PCs for a liiving. It's jusy one of many products.
- If this product tanks WalMart will not be hurt at all.
- WalMart does not need Uncle Bill's blessing to make money (see first point).
- These are bare-bones, bottom of the pile PCs that are selling because they are cheap.
This is not a revolution in PC sales. This is a huge desicount chain selling a second-rate computer at the lowest price they possibly can as a side project that isn't even worth putting in their stores.Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Many people have an idea that linux is some mysterous type of operating system that only computer geeks can use. Last week a coworker that was interested asked me a lot about it. My advice was to stick the installation cd in and boot the computer to see what happens, he did: the SuSE 8.0 installation went flawlessly and soon he had a dual boot system with windows and linux. He said his son was shocked to see how nice the KDE3 desktop was and both were pleasantly surprised how easy it was to install a linux distribution on a computer already loaded with windows. The more peopel realize you don't have to be a computer geek to run linux, the more they will find it a worthwhile investment. It's ironic, windows users spend months learning how to use windows and complain they are afraid to try linux because it will take too long to learn - well, some are realizing it is NOT that difficult. WalMart selling pre-loaded systems ready to go for less than $200 that work well is a very prudent thing to do these days when one does not know how long they will have a job.
>>>please remove "nospam" from email address
"Ignorage is bliss" is a very fitting statement to this situation. Most people that I've talked to aren't looking to compare KDE to Windows Explorer like most geeks do. First thing I think of when I look at Lindows is "how does it compare to my win2k and xp machines". "Can I do this in Lindows, does Lindows let me do this" I start testing it. Pushing it's limits. Yea, I find quite a few... my grandmother won't find them nor care if I do. She'll use it to get online and check some webpages and do some email... play some simple games... and have a good time. Suprize, that's EXCATLY what these pc's and Lindows are made to do and are marketed to do.
One thing that doesn't seem to be mentioned here is the importance of a sub $500 PC on who buys computers. Back around the time of the Commodore Vic 20 and 64 you had a huge number of parents buying dedicated computers for young children; and poor people buying computers for themselves. Since the death of the Amiga 500 we really haven't had new computers that are cheap enough for people to casually buy them. The effects of adding say 10 or 20 million home computers to the market in terms of the spread of knowledge, broadband, games... could be quite profound.
>The 800 Mhz Via CPU is roughly equivalent to a 400 Mhz Celeron.
After using one of these, I think you're underrating the CPU by a lot.
You forgot that when you're talking Cyrix, you're talking a big difference between application performance, and number crunching performance.
Number crunching on a C3 is pathetic. Application performance on a C3 800 is about equivalent to a PIII 550, IMHO. The C3 666 plays DVDs handsomely, and there's no way they'd play well on a Celeron 300...
And while you're saving on the computer, you also save on electricity. I'm very disappointed that so few laptop manufacturers have considered this chip. IIRC, it uses about 1/4 the power the power of an Athlon, and produces so little heat it can be relatively easily passively cooled.
In other words, a silent, cheap, laptop that doesn't burn your legs or your wallent, and lasts an entire trip from anywhere on the world to anywhere, all at the expense of some CPU power. Sounds cool to me.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
If the chief advantage for windows in the consumer space is supposedly that consumers are not smart enough to realize that they can get a computer without windows...
Maybe they're also not smart enough to realize that they're getting a computer without Windows? If we don't trust the average purchaser to know that just because a P4 has a higher clock rate than an Athlon that it isn't necessarily faster, why would we expect them to realize whether the computer they're buying to send email has windows or lindows? To them it's a thing that sends email.
The average user probably views the OS and the computer with the same level of separation most of us assign to the transport and network layers.
Basically indistinguishable parts of the thing you use to get a web page.
paintball
true. But they also dont mention how much more efficient Linux is to the afformentioned. The $200 dollar Linux machine might seem much faster than the $400 dollar machine that runs "millions" of programs.
"A good friend will bail you out of jail. A true friend will be sitting next to you saying, 'damn....that was fun!'"
I said: I read slashdot because it's so hard to find anything else intelligent to read.
People replied: And Slashdot intelligent? Haw.... It's worse out there on the Internet than we thought.... Keep searching...
Wow, that was a robust response. No kidding, guys&gals. Without the time or patience to surf, I used to have to tolerate the big-media news feeds, who seem to think that Winona Ryder Busted for Shoplifting is big news.
Admittedly, to refine the /. content, I read at a +3 threshold with -2 for Funny and +1 for Insightful. I only lower the threshold if a thread interests me enough to consider replying (so that I won't be redundant). Try those settings for yourself; suddenly, /. seems pretty damn smart.
P.S. Sorry if this is offtopic; mod me down if you must. I know that those replies were just friendly jesting, but the topic touched a nerve. I hate stupidity.
My father is trying to start a software company, and I know for a fact that he could not install Windows. Heck, a friend of mine just graduated with a Computer Science degree from my university, and I had to walk her through installing Windows 98 (the only reasonable windows to install on a machine with these specs). I spent 2 hours on the phone with her, and she is to this day proud to have "done it herself". Installing an OS is nothing a typical user can do. Just because we have done it thousands of times, doesn't mean the "Average" user can use fdisk, format, etc. Never overestimate the user!
That's why this is perfect, it's not a no OS at all solution, there is an OS on the machine. True grandma probably does not make a distinction between MS and linux, but her grandkids will and suddenly become aware that there are other things than microsoft in the world and that's a start... it doesn't really matter if they like linux. Linux is just another OS, they don't have to like linux, or BSD, just knowing there are other things out there is a start. Some will take the next step and play with them. Some will like them. Other's will like them better but not enough, contribute to something that already exists, or perhaps come up with something better.