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Wal-Mart Lindows PCs Selling Well
andyring writes "CNN.com is reporting that sales of the $199 PCs have exceeded expectations. Although CNN terms them "full fledged, if low power," it seems customers don'd mind all that much if their computer does not run Windows and doesn't carry an Intel processor. Slashdot covered two reviews of those machines July 4."
Why the things here are so much expensive than in the US?
I just bought one of these for my dad. I installed redhat 8.0 and he loves it! He doesn't know the difference between it and windows. It is fun to watch is use mozilla for web browsing and mail. If microsoft disappeared off the planet I really think desktop computing would go on fine at this point.
I'd be very interested to see how long Linux stays on those machines before some friend/neighbour/relative drops by and fdisks the system to install XP of which they just happen to have a copy?
Would be great... Because leaving Lindows to Linux newcomers is really the worst thing that can happen to them! 1) proprietary stuff everywhere 2) using the system as root = welcome to viruses in the future and so on.
Users need a real and *easy to use* Linux system! A pre-installed Mandrake Linux (8.2 or 9.0) is in my opinion the best system they can be offered. It's real Free Software, it's secure, it's fast, it's reliable, and there are many many software available for it.
Lindows' success is the result of it's CEO's address large book really a bad for Linux because it's just an attempt to provide a *very badly designed* system that looks as closely as possible to Windows.
This isn't the future of masses computing in any way in my opinion.
And, for better or for worse, despite the carping of usability engineers and the whining of Microsoft zealots, if they run Gnome/KDE, Mozilla, and OpenOffice on it, end users will have a software experience not too different from Windows with Microsoft Office.
One small point...
That will work for people who know computers well enough to build them, but the average person doesn't really know too much on how to make one.
Everyone knows the old addage you get what you pay for. When I worked selling computers though, there were two types of customers. There was the type that wanted the best hardware they could get, price be damned, and there was the type that just wanted to type stuff up and surf the net, and those people really only wanted to spend what they had to.
By offering customers a(cheap) linux solution which allows them to type up papers and surf the internet, you are answering the computer needs of a signifigant marketshare. By putting Linux in thier hands, you're enabling them to see that there's more to the world than bargain basement e-machines running the latest M$ operating system, and for around 33% - 50% of the cost of one of those e-machines.
----- I want my LART.
While people bash the low cost hardware, I think it is important to point out the good things relating to these machines, specifically the via C3 processor. Low energy use, low heat production. Slap a large heat sink on the processor, and you have yourself a decent, very quiet, low energy consuming, low cost server/firewall/mp3 player/dvd player (once you add a dvd rom).
Maybe this is why tech enthusiasts are buyin them. As well, does anyone know what board is in it? Could this maybe a mini-itx board? That could provide even more fun for tech enthusiasts who want to make crazy pc's in odd items.
No, you're supposed to be mad that Walmart sweat shop goods are made by companies offering wages at higher than local scale. The fact is that if sweat shops disappeared, prices on goods would go up and wages in these countries would go *down*. That's just plain inhumane.
It will be definately interesting to see how well these sell, and more importantly, what the sell-to-return ratio is after Christmas. I expect a lot of people are saying "hey, cheap computer!" and putting it under the tree.
Heck, for some guy buying a computer for his almost-never-used-a-PC-before granny/mother/aunt/etc this is a great present. Cheap, goes online, runs a word processor. They're not super-fast, but they're not retarded-slow either.
I doubt you'll see many gamers buying these, but for those who are just trying to get some letters printed and emails sent, it's a good deal.
I think the premise is that the majority of users will want the ability to send and receive email and to be able to surf the net. I belive the more a person does the above activities, the more they will want to try other things such as installing new programs or games. Then they will be rudely awakened to the fact that the programs by and large won't install or even be available. When they realize they aren't getting the same user experience as their friends and neighbors, the public outcry will start.
I don't think this is true. this "commoditisation of the hardware market" will only make the percentage of pro-quality equipment drop but the raw number will probably increase. Think about it. More people using low-end hardware means more people wanting better stuff.
As for your SCSI disk example, just think how much you'd have to pay for a 0,5 GB slow and unreliable disk a few years ago. Alot more than you do now.
The increase in the price of pro-equipment is only hapenning because you're changing that definition to mean server-class stuff, since that's becoming afordable today. Hence, prices are actually *droping* because of the massification of computer hardware. There's no indication that that won't continue.
Pedro Côrte-Real.
I don't know a whole lot about what's inside this box hardware-wise, but doesn't it look like a great starting point for building one of those Linux-based PVR's people have been making vague squeaky noises about for months here?
Just a random thought!
- Semper Ubi Sub Ubi!
"player 4 hit player 1 with 0 stroms"
Gary Elsasser, vice president of technology at eMachines, said that consumers wanted to be able to run any software and find computer help easily. Linux makes that hard to do.
Typical. People saying that the software that is available on windows is not available on linux. Yes, this is true that a lot of the same software is not available on linux, and sometimes it is not easy to migrate new users... but people will do it... I run a dual boot system on my laptop 'just in case' I have to use windows, but honestly I can't remember the last time I actually NEEDED to use windows. I honestly will be interested in seeing how many businesses migrate to linux for some of their applications once OpenOffice and similar free/open source office projects become available. I believe that we will see (and have already started to see) Microsofts battle against open-source, and it reminds me of the way that MaBell used to battle local telcos, undercut the competition by lowering your price. In this case, they have to undercut it to the point that they are giving it away for free. There have been several slashdot articles on this reccently, and coming from an educational institution, and talking to IT people at other educational institutions I know that Microsoft offers lots of 'perks' to institutions, including free/cheap software and the Microsoft Academic Alliance (for students) to not only get them to use MS products instead of looking for or adopting alternatives, but also to get students used to and familiar with Microsoft Products instead of products from the competition (CS students req'd to make sure code works in Vis Studio before turning it in, intro to computers or other general courses focusing mainly (if only) on MSOffice). I was going somewhere with this, but I lost track. I guess I'll just end in saying the battle with Microsoft has only begun, you might even argue that the first shots have yet to be fired...
[Something witty and intelligent should have appeared here.]
{Traicovn}
It's the same mentality though as the Ford Pinto (remember, the car that would explode?) It would have cost Ford roughly an 11.00 part to repair the problem with the ford pinto, but that would have put it over their magical 'final cost price' of 2000.00
They are marketing these PC's at a certain price level... that's their magic number... They don't want to go over it.
They probably don't have a modem, because the ethernet controller was probably already on the motherboard. Now, what they COULD do, form an alliance with some modem manufacturer and offer some sort of rebate on an external modem...
[Something witty and intelligent should have appeared here.]
{Traicovn}
I wonder noone mentioned the poor public education. $200 per box? It's a perfect price for schools! I am going to talk to the principal - my kid complains they don't have enough computer classes b/c there is not enough of computers. ... Jeez, is it 21st century or it's a middle age?
Less is more !
Most 'cheap' PCs don't. That has to be bought seperate. The monitor is going to double your cost tho.
not. you can find pleny of decent used 17" monitors (and that's probably overkill for an email/websurfing system) for $20-$80. I even came across someone selling 21" sun monitors for $50 each last week.
Yes.. The Intel logo does make a pretty big difference. Intel really does enjoy tremendous brand recognition and people tend to associate Intel with top of the line computer power.
However, while Intel is a big brand, Walmart is many orders of magnitude bigger. People are willing to overlook the lack of recognizable and trusted brand on the box because they have such high brand loyalty to Walmart.
Walmart has that effect. If anyone can inspire change in the industry.. its a retailer like Walmart. They have legions of loyal customers who trust them to stock merchandise that they can rely on... That's why I like this so much. Its only going to be much later that all of a sudden people realize that hundred of thousands (if not millions) of people are running these Linux PC's.. and THAT will be the day that people will finally realize that there is a world outside of Microsoft. THAT will be the day that Microsoft will begin to lose its desktop monopoly.
Turn s60 photos into awesome videos with mScrapbook for all S60 3rd edition phones!
In the "consumer space" CPU brand, MIPS, Mega-flops, megs of RAM and gigs of disk space don't matter worth crap.
:-)
What counts is all on the bottom line.
M$ is kidding itself if it thinks people give a tinker's cuss about it's software. Most people never "got it" and haven't ever had a friggin' clue as to what all the screaming was about.
M$ Office in on the way out in the consumer space because OpenOffice is available for about half a friggin' grand less. M$ Windows is on the way out in the consumer space because Linux is available for a few hundred less.
What sells in the consumer space is whatever's "good enough" and "fast enough" (something M$ is definitely LOUSY at,) to do what people want.
The hardware is already there, has been for a couple of years. The software/bloatware is what's been holding up the works.
On the business front, as a software developer, I'd rip my own lungs out before buying Lindows for what my professional needs are, but the user work-stations (read that again "work" "station") and the MIS departments that have to keep the boxen alive are glad to have a cheap M$ alternative.
Rolling out Lindows boxen sounds like some MIS manager's big "I saved X-amount of dollars" bonus opportunity.
And at home Lindows'd be good enough... If I wasn't typing this on a slackware8.1 box and if I wasn't already a Mac maniac for my other machines.
My biggest challenge is teaching my techno-indifferent wife to use the Linux box. (She doesn't want to use the Mac either.)
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
This may be off topic, then again ...
... which ought to be worth the $20 of Asian labor they're probably using on this. But then again it's $20 of American stocking/shipping labor for an outfit to send out separate parts ... so can we build this better ourselves @ this price point?
For those of use who might throw $200 at a utility box, can anyone recommend hardware (especially motherboard and power supply) that are of better proven quality than this WalMart dohingus, yet still come in with the same (incomplete) features for not more than $200? $250? Sure, we'd as soon screw the stuff together and install our fave distro
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
At $200 you reach 80% of the population every two months or so. With $1000 you reach 10% every 6 months or so.
I mean, no matter how good your product may be, if it's not fighting in the $200 and under price tag, most people will not be able to afford it. Even if 10000^10000 times faster, it's still innacesible.
Of course, up until now these people could only get a used PC, or they had to make a mayor effort or do with less computers that they wanted or have a friend that custom built them one as cheap as possible.
The $200 lines opens up a huge market. "Hey, I have $200, why not buy this new PC?".
unfinished: (adj.)
There is a franchise in New Zealand called Dick Smiths, which is a electronics type place which sells a lot of stuff for the home. Anyway, They started selling headless boxen with Mandrake installed... and when they released them they sold out real quick. Im not sure if it was because of Linux, The price, or both. But one thing is for sure, Linux is really starting to get out there.
Well no matter how rich Bill Gates is, MS is #72 on the Fortune 500 list and Wal-Mart is #1. Can't argue with results.
I bought one of these computers for my 10 year old daughter. She loves it. I plugged it into my Cable modem and wham! It was on the net. It is ultra easy to use, and she loves installing games and software with Click-N-Run. I can't EVEN imagine giving her RedHat or Mandrake, that would just be WRONG.
Enough with the LindowsOS bashing. 99% of you here have never even tried it. It installs very quickly, recognizes more hardware than most distros, and is extremely polished and stable.
And what's all this Bull S$%^ about running as Root? Hello??? It's as simple as going to their "Launch Menu" and selecting the User Manager. Bingo, Bango...users and not running as root.
Mark
It's a good start into a market void, where we NEED a commodity device. Think about all the $15 - $50 PDA's. Sure they don't run palmOS. They can't do a lot of things a CE device can. SO? There's a market for them. How about those "laptops" for little kids? They're just toys. Some of them do a minimal amount of wordprocessing or calculator functions, or maybe they just moo and oink, who cares?
So there's a niche where a cheap as hell PC that does the stuff that a PC does, but is cheap as hell, would be very marketable. To all those folks who want a PDA, but don't want to spend the bucks for a Palm, and certainly not for something like a Zarus. Just like there's expensive phones and cheap as hell phones. Or cheap stereos.
There's a market for a cheap computer. If it does what it needs to do, software and file compatability be damned. There are a whole lot of people that, if they can't open a particular file format or view some funky proprietary content on the web, will just go "huh? oh well." and they'll get on with their lives! I'll bet if you had a few games for the platform that weren't on other platforms, they'd sell, too. And people would not be all that upset that Windows games don't work, provided you did not give them that expectation. People may not be knowledgeable, but they are NOT stupid. (I hail from a small town in East Texas, and believe I'm qualified to speak on that matter!)
I really don't think incompatability would hurt here as much as other people seem to think it will, and certainly not as much as Microsoft is betting it will. Do the people with $10 pda's care if they can't run palm apps? Do you really think the people with self-contained workflow are going to care whether they run Koffice, Openoffice, or word?
Microsoft, and all the software publishers (games mostly!) have created the expectation in consumers that "computer == runs windows software" but, I don't think that'll be terribly hard to break. Look at the console market, or any other product that has an aftermarket where accessories on one brand are incompatible with another.
Vacuum cleaner bags. They get it. I buy a Hoover, I need Type H bags. I buy a Eureka, I need type AA bags. I'll even bet some of them check the price, and they see if H bags are $3.00 and AA bags are $1.50, it influences their decision. But they get it, and they don't end up returning the Eureka because it doesn't use the Hoover bag.
Game consoles. Nobody has a problem understanding that Nintendo games don't fit Sony. And they're okay with that. Camera film comes to mind as another example, but seems somewhat anachronistic today.
So it doesn't come with Word? Well, that's a social problem for some people. The idea that not being able (or willing) to read a Word Doc might cost your job, etc.
Not everybody has their career resting on being able to open or save a powerpoint or a word doc.
Lots of us are in that predicament, but, we're not the ones buying a $50 PC, are we? (Yes I know the lindows box is more like $200, but, I'm seeing the possibility).
The main thing that distinguishes "Computers" and "Peripherals, Software" from "Vacuum cleaners" and "Bags" is that the retailers have thoroughly ingrained the notion that "Computer == Windows" into the consumer's mind. But guess what? They can STILL sell something else, as long as they don't instill a false expectation in that customer.
To be sure, there will be salespeople claiming that Lindows runs Game X, Application Y. There will be people returning these things, partly just because people return things to Walmart, and partly because it hasn't met their expectations.
There will be people who immediately wipe the disk and install windows on it.
And there will be people who use the system, never adding anything to it, happily emailing stories about the newborn poodle or how the floor of the shed needs to be fixed and can you pay the insurance on the truck this month to their kids and grandkids on the west coast. There will be a web resource here and there that won't load in opera or mozilla or whatever, sure, but if it *WORKS* and does what the customer expects it to do, it DOESN'T MATTER ONE BIT that it isn't Windows!
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
I could never understand why people bitterly hate Wal-Mart so much. They are simply not a bad company. They provide reasonable products, pretty good returns, and pretty good prices. Yes, they beat a lot of competitors (and this is partly a result of these facts). But from a consumer's point of view, Wal-Mart is a Good Thing.
May we never see th
While having Wal-Mart sell Lindows is interetsing, I'm not sure how much benefit Linux will ultimately reap, because:
/. target, is all of a sudden one of the good guys. (The enemy of my enemy is my friend?)
1. People will not necessarily associate Lindows with Linux - more likely think it's a cheap Windows clone;
2. If and when Lindows doesn't run something, they'll assume it's Lindows fault, not that that's the price of running Lindows; so, If they do link Lindows with Linux, they assume it's an OS for cheap machines; and that Linux has all the faults and problems that Lindows has (i.e. not 100% Windows compatable) Never mind it isn't intended to be a Windows clone, any bad impressions of Lindows will reflect on Linux.
As a side note, it's interesting that Wal-mart, another favorite
Also, how well is Lindows complying with GPL terms? If they are successfull, they may be reluctant to give away what they view as the foundation of tehir success, and have the cash to fend off challenges.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
I've never seen any of his movies, yet I hate the man. I've seen enough interviews and excerpts to know that he is the very definition of sophistry. He uses simplistic and shallow reasoning to demonize people for his own personal gain.
He reminds me of Noam Chomsky, in a way. The both take facts out of context and shine them in the worst light possible while completely ignoring any facts that don't fit their twisted world view. The difference between Chomsky and Moore is that Chomsky is extremely intelligent but literally insane, and Moore is stupid but crafty and devious. Moore knows exactly what he's doing by using only emotional manipulation for his movie subjects, but is too intellectually limited to do complete, in-depth analysis of his documentary subjects.
Regardless of whether you agree with his politics or not, that guy is the devil.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.