Slashdot Mirror
GeForce FX And More From AGDC 2002
Mr.Tweak writes "We have posted some coverage from the Australian Game Developers Conference which was held over this past weekend at the Melbourne Convention Center. There you will find information on Sony's PS2 online gaming plans, Sony's PS2 Linux Development Kits, and videos and pictures of nVidia's GeForce FX in action as well as shots of the graphics card and other juicy details."
So much gaming, so little time before the slashdot effect kicks in!
When life gives you crap, Make Crapade.
Sluggy Freelance.
The drivers for linux are along with Matrox the best you can get. Everything is wonderful with my Geforce 4 under Mandrake 9 and i love it.
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
the link is to some church site in another language (i think italian) Dont drink and mod!
When life gives you crap, Make Crapade.
Sluggy Freelance.
This isn't meant to be a troll, but I've never heard of any game development going on in Australia. Maybe I'm forgetting something here, but I try to keep reasonably up-to-date with these things.
As a major first-world country, I'm sure they must have produced something noteworthy in the gaming arena. Could someone spare a link or two?
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
Personally I don't understand why nVidia is not going to be releasing Linux drivers with their GeForce FX. Granted, nobody who runs Linux buys games that could make use of their card, but it still seems like they're shooting themselves in the foot with this.
?-|||-----x<*))))><
While I think that the new GeForce card is constantly showing just how good it is, there is not reason to completely over-exaggerate its capabilities. I hate videos showing one model in a very simplistic scene and being hailed as 'most realistic 3D ever.' For these demos to be realistic, they need to have REAL scenes, with real moving objects. I wish marketing was more honest.
Who says that Linux Gamers won't pay for games, nothing says that you can't have comercial software on Linux, Linux people are gamers too and Open Source games are never going to be as close as the $50.00 game you payed for in the store unless its a buggy, rushed out the publisher's door game, but thats another story. Yes, there are some talented OSS programers, but never as good as the ones that get paid to do it. I don't see why there is such a sterotype twoard Linux on the basis that just because you can download Linux, means that you have to be able to download every program that is made for it.
That link would be great of you wanted to know about the Seventh Day Adventist Church in New York..... but, as we're talking about game dev, maybe this link would be better. Of course, just like the US and European GDC's, the official conference website is not the place to get news and pics from.
The real ps2 dev kits already run a linux kernel. Are these like 'lite' versions of the real thing? Are they really aimed at young people? If so, then they better come with some good debugging software, since the machine is only half the battle! The program I've used is made by a company called ProDG, and is prohibitively expensive. However, its an indispensable tool.
Incidently, PS2 dev kits are *very* cool to work with--much better than the NGC dev kits, and they lock up less than the XBOX dev kits (by this, I mean its harder to freeze them so that they can't be rebooted remotely). All in all a good experience to work with. However, they are also very expensive. By trying to make them more accessible, Sony will definitely lengthen the lifespan of the PS2.
- - - - - - - -
Don't worry, being eaten by a crocodile is just like going to sleep in a giant blender.
I'm just getting over my gaming addiction, you insensitive clod!
I thought we had realised that linking to forums is a bad idea... ahh well.
People, this is a big card. I mean, wow. Seriously.
I heard from NVIDIA folks that the requirements for powering this monster were originally reported to be within AGP power budget but that's simply not true anymore. It was just confirmed that GeForce FX requires an auxiliary power supply such as ATI's 9700 Pro.
As if that's not enough, the GeForce FX also requires an extra slot.
But trust me, my friends/fans/foes -- I've played the latest games on this thing at a few private screenings with friends I have in the industry, and I assure you that this FX card simply will not dissappoint!
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
Here's a video where an NVidia engineer has a GF FX running two demos. It crashes twice, once taking the whole system down for a reboot.
The day that these cards can realistically render the naked human body in real-time motion is fast approaching. At which point, judging by the history of cable TV, the VCR and the DVD, these $500 videocard monstrosities will go flying off the shelves.
There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
I recently replaced my GeForce2 MX with a GeForce4 Ti 4200. I have a P3-1000.
Of course, the first thing I did was to download some of the NVidia demos, so I could witness the awesome power of my new card. I was especially interested in the wolfman demo.
Well, it was spectacular. You could drive him around, make his hair longer or shorter, change the lighting, etc... And the characterization was lightyears beyond anything in Dungeon Siege, Warcraft III, or any other current game.
Then, I hit escape, and I was back to reality.
That was three or four months ago. Realistically, I imagine I'll have to wait until Doom III, maybe 5 or 6 months more, before I can actually play a game which will take advantage of a non-trivial part of my new GPU's power.
How long will it be before an FX board will be taxed by a new game?
If people will pay $399 for a state of the art card, I suggest that some game publisher consider developing a game at the $199 or $249 price point which will really take advantage of these cards.
Otherwise, the best we can hope for is a few more frames of the same ugly polygons.
Machines take me by surprise with great frequency. -A. Turing
"Yes, there are some talented OSS programers, but never as good as the ones that get paid to do it."
What about OSS programmers who get paid for their job? Have you thought about that most of those talented OSS programmers get salary for their OSS work or some other projects. Let's start from Linus himself, I think he gets paid pretty well. Or does Alan Cox need to bake pizzas in some pizzeria for his living?
Ok Mr. gnu/Stallman might be a little different case. I don't know how he lives. On donations?;)
*lbrt
damn slashdot effect already taking place, so w/o further ado --
l .jpg)
l .jpg)l .jpg)
l .jpg)l .jpg)l .jpg)
---
Introduction - More Hardware Next Year Please
To be deadly honest with you, the Australian Game Developers Conference which was held over this past weekend at the Melbourne Convention Center was not all that exciting for a strictly hardware junkie like myself.
However... for an Australian conference, it was very good to see large companies such as Intel, AMD, nVidia, Microsoft, Sony and Creative in your backyard all putting some dollars back into the industry for the benefit of future game development in our good country down under.
While we did not see it necessary to post any formal coverage, throughout the weekend we did learn a few things of interest for us hardware folks, obviously though much of it was focused toward the gaming industry with no ground-breaking new juicy hardware news to feed you folk with.
So without further ado, here is some of the interesting bit and pieces I found @ ADGC 2002.
Please note throughout this thread you can click on each image for a larger version.
Sony on PS2 - Still Pushing Hard
- PS2 Online Gaming Service
First off, at their Delegate Cocktail Party, Sony let a noisy, mostly student dominated crowd of 300 or more know that they will launch their very own online gaming service for the PS2 in Australia sometime during our winter season next year - no in-depth details were given by the speaker battling to sound himself above the crowd.
This service will compete with Microsoft's Xbox Live online gaming service which should go live in Australia around the same time, we think.
- PS2 Linux Dev Kit
Sony were also showing off their PS2 Linux Development kit with the aim of getting more up and coming game developers to learn the art behind programming PS2 games under the Linux OS.
These kits sell for around $1000 Australian (roughly $500 US).
nVidia bring beautiful Dawn to our shores!
(Image: http://www.tweaktown.com/popImg.php?img=agdc02_01
One of the company stands I thought I would stop by was nVidia where the friendly Steve Burke, Art Director and co from the Santa Clare office in the US of A were showing off their GeForce FX graphics card (to my delight) and CG Graphics engine and development software.
- The Videos
(Image: http://www.tweaktown.com/popImg.php?img=agdc02_02
Now most of us have seen the stunning NV30 videos floating around the Internet over the past month or so. I remember when I first saw these videos and how amazed I was. Seeing the NV30 in action personally impressed me a whole lot more with what the technology is truly capable of - somewhat refreshing my excitement over the new product.
(Image: http://www.tweaktown.com/popImg.php?img=agdc02_03
We shot 3 or 4 minutes of our own new video footage of both the Dawn and Ogre demos for your viewing pleasure. To view these AVI files, you will need to download the latest DivX codec from the DivX website.
You can download both videos here from our servers:
- Video #1 (Dawn) (10.1mb) (Link: http://www.tweaktown.com/files/nv30dawn.avi)
- Video #2 (Ogre) (6.7mb) (Link: http://www.tweaktown.com/files/nv30ogre.avi)
- The Card
After we shot the videos, I asked if we could get a closer look at the NV30 graphics card. While nVidia refused to power down their systems (fair enough - we cannot take Dawn away from fellow jaw dropped perverts) they did offer to take the sides off one of their three ASUS nForce2 Athlon XP 2700+ powered systems they were demonstrating...
(Image: http://www.tweaktown.com/popImg.php?img=agdc02_04
(Image: http://www.tweaktown.com/popImg.php?img=agdc02_05
(Image: http://www.tweaktown.com/popImg.php?img=agdc02_06
These shots give us a good idea of just how much space these monsters are going to take up inside our cases. As you can see, the heat pipe cooling technology is going to cover two of your first PCI slots - whether you like it or not, start to get used to the fact guys.
- Cooling
While we couldn't see it, the fan cooling the heat pipes was very loud - we are talking almost Delta-like volume levels. Possibly, as we get closer to seeing these cards in retail, nVidia may tweak the cooling systems to a more noise tolerable level - at least I hope so.
When quizzed by a gamer at the sound levels coming from the back of the card, an nVidia rep was quick to suggest that it wouldn't matter much because gamers would be using headphones during their gaming. Unless the cooling technology has thermal throttling (which it very well may, mind you) I would have to disagree with this notion.
Say you are listening to music or fragging away with your desktop speakers, the hum of the cooling fan will still be audible since we do not all use headphones.
- Retail Release Dates
I ended my discussions with Steve Burke asking when we could except to see the GeForce FX on store shelves.
He made it clear he was not 100% certain but said we may possibly see a limited supply in stores in the United States toward the very end of this year with supply coming in quantity late January / early February next year.
Please remember these dates were given to us as ESTIMATES and should be treated as such.
Conclusion
Like I said in the introduction, I didn't have a great detail of information to report here. I hope you enjoy the brief coverage I provided in this forum thread.
Feel free to post your thoughts and comments on anything discussed here.
Cheers!
Every company that deals in graphics has done it. I've seen this on screens for SNES games, Sega consoles, 3Dfx cards, Intel CPUs, ad nauseum. nVidia didn't create this practice, they merely became the latest in a long series of companies to engage in marketing puffery.
I attended the conference as a 3 day delegate, so here are some behind the scenes impressions:
- sessions based on Sony's PS2 were about getting the most out of the hardware - Performace Analysers, better occulsion and culling techniques, utilising the vector processors in parallel etc. Sony were honest enough to admit that the effeciency of their compilers weren't that good when it came to parallelisation, and offered suggestions for workarounds - thats what you get from a company supporting a 3 year old product.
- Microsoft on the other hand, had an excellent promotional team advocating the Xbox. Lets face it, they have newer and better hardware, so they kept on advocating its superiority compared to other consoles. Better development tools, a simpler architecture for developers, better graphics, familiar API's, documentation written in English first, hard drive, 5.1 sound, Unified memory etc. The speakers were very convincing, and made Microsoft seem like your best friend.
- international speakers included Lars Gustavsson (sp), producer of Battlefield 1942 (he had excellent videos of the lifestyle of DICE developers), Doug Church (ex Ion Storm), Ray Muzyka (BioWare and NeverWinter Nights) and others.
- exhibitors included nVidia and their new GeForce FX (Hi Brian!! - apparently, saying that you're from nVidia isn't as great a pick up line as geeks might expect), Metrowerks, Intel, Alias, Auran, Sony etc.
Ofcourse, everyone attends these conferences for the social events afterwards - cocktail, dinner and nerf gun parties. Conferences are a great place to share a beer or two with fellow collegues. Sony handed out condoms shaped like PS2 buttons, Microforte organised an excellent outdoor party on a historic sail ship (though it was very cold and windy for a Melbourne summer night). Everyone had fun, and noone fell over drunk from the ship into the cold water.
The most striking fact from the conference was examining the behaviour of different programming houses. Infogrammes (Melbourne House) were so big, that they didn't care about anyone else, so they always clustered together. It took a bit of effort to isolate a few of their developers to have a serious 1-1 talk. Ratbag developers seemed like the most compotent of the lot - they know their stuff, and are hungry for success. Watch out for these guys. MicroForte were the loudest at the party, they know how to have a good time. I felt sorry for one of the houses (who I will not name), they were like 'we will code games for food, give us a project, any project'.
All in all, a very exciting 3 days. Hope to see you all next year in Melbourne.
Revolution = Evolution
the Lanfest was just scary. 1000 guys in sleeping bags locked in a room for 48 hours. Day 2 they were bouncing off the walls, mugging old ladies for Jolt cola and trying to make off with my 23" Cinema Display.
Either that or they were trying to make out with it. Sometimes I wasn't sure.
What? No coverage on Romero's talk about project management?
--Informative not off topic!
Everyone was at 3D Realms project management seminar.
nbfn
I'm not sure I like the noise level the fan on this card makes. I like a Quiet PC. Or at least one that doesnt sound like a vacuum cleaner.
And I definitely don't like the fact that it occupies two PCI slots. I knew this was coming sooner or later as most SGI video adapters are about as thick as two PCI slots. I'm talking about the video adapters in the MIPS workstations (Octane and such). I simply don't have room in my case for this card if it takes two PCI slots.
Hopefully someone will come up with an aftermarket watercooling solution for this card that would get rid of the noise and hopefully fit in one PCI slot.
Just my two cents.
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
Realistically, I imagine I'll have to wait until Doom III, maybe 5 or 6 months more, before I can actually play a game which will take advantage of a non-trivial part of my new GPU's power.
So? Now the question is, how long before most gamers realize this? Right now, he's correct, and it's probably Doom III (or some unknown game) will make this thing a requirement. But, it'll still need to play on older hardware. And either way, by the time that the game comes out, your Geforce will have dropped $100. I'll wait, personally.
I suggest that some game publisher consider developing a game at the $199 or $249 price point which will really take advantage of these cards.
Please. Just. Don't. Go. There.
However, here's a cool idea - pay one of the current "hot" developers to make a small game, something not too terribly difficult, not too terribly deep, but terribly pretty, and bundle it with the card. Make a version available online so people can play and see what their current system shows, along with pics from the Geforce X version. Big potential here, as well as a big potential for cheating - let's make every other non-NV card render it slow. But it could be cool, especially if it's a cool game.
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
Pon Chaleune
Conference Manager
Pon is a Bachelor of Arts in Tourism graduate from the University of Canberra and brings
to this role over six years experience in the meetings industry.
The "meetings industry"?
That is SO Monty Python-esque its funny.
"We're having a meeting"
"No we're not"
"Yes we are"
"No we're not"
http://jesus.everdense.com/
Wow. Pictures and video. It's a printed circuit board. I suppose that the video will show all kinds of hot fan action.
~Idarubicin
Alongside the AGDC, there was an event called the AGDC LANfest.
It was interesting to see the reaction of the developers as they walked through the LANning area, the main response being "What on earth is this?". Maybe that's why some games have rather lame LAN netcode. As for sleeping arrangements, there wasn't any sleeping permitted in the venue. Some of the LAN admins got no sleep at all (I just woke up from a 13 hour sleep).
The cocktail party was cool - all over 18 attendees of the LAN event could attend, too, and enjoy the merits of free beer and mingle with the developers.
I did have a look at the nVidia stand, in fact, I saw the tweaktown guys pass through while I was there, taking their snaps. Yes, the GeforceFX takes up two slots and the fan isn't exactly quiet either.
The LANfest is our last event before the Big Day In.
Whoever said the nvidia linux drivers are "about the best you can get" is smoking crack.
I'm using the latest drivers from their web site, and X server crashes are a daily occurance for me.
I've tried their redhat RPM's, I've tried building the source RPM's, I've tried using older versions of the driver.... Nada.
My system is rock solid stable and will run for months w/o a reboot with a load average of 6. However, graphic apps like movie players and 3d games will crash my Xserver. My case ambient temps are just a few degrees above room temp with all the fans I have installed. I've even tried returning my Ti4200 and trying a different card just in case something was wrong with it.
Never used to happen EVER with my MAtrox G400. Don't get me wrong - I love the performance of my Ti4200 - I just hate the crap drivers.
Nvidia, if your listening: Thanks for supporting Linux, my favorite OS, but please improve the stability of your drivers!!!
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
Okay, I've heard some weird things about Australians, but I had no idea they had dicks shaped like triangles, squares and Xs.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Yeah, and life will be all like Weird Science, when you can alter the porno flick on the fly for breast or other sizes just by pressing a button.
:-)
When you can have all the porn you want, what's the challenge gonna be? Actually go out the front door?
On my XP system, WMP 8 gets an error trying to download the necessary codecs. I downloaded the latest codec package from MS and installed them all, and they still won't play.
The media player on Win98 also doesn't come with the right codec.
When making a video to show off your stuff, wouldn't it be a good idea to actually use a widely available format?
Melbourne in particular has been well known in producing games for the last 20 years.