Slashdot Mirror
Indian Government Moves to Let Linux In
Webi writes "The government of India has started taking precise, wide-reaching steps to usher in a Linux wave in India." India sure seems to be a highly contested arena lately. Interestingly, India's plan calls for government-sponsored support and call centers. Looks like they've really thought this through.
Maybe they will outsource linux support to the us!
I better start learning my Hindi!
Neck_of_the_Woods
#/usr/local/surf/glassy/overhead
Govt move on to let in Linux
PRASENJIT BHATTACHARYA
TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 25, 2002 12:54:49 PM ]
NEW DELHI: The government of India has started taking precise, wide-reaching steps to usher in a Linux wave in India.
And that cannot be good news for proprietary software vendors like Microsoft. Yesterday, the IT ministry had a meeting of around 70 people, from companies like HP, IBM, Sun and TCS, government agencies like BARC and CDAC, state governments like Kerala, West Bengal and MP to evolve a level playing field for Linux vis-a-vis proprietary software (read Microsoft).
All the IITs too were represented at the meeting that went on for 4 hours.
There was consensus in the meeting that Linux was a secure, robust and cost-effective system.
As far as concrete pro-Linux acts go, government tenders may soon stop specifying Microsoft or any other vendor's name while floating software tenders, thus throwing open the way for Linux vendors to grab lucrative government contracts hitherto barred from them.
The government is also setting up special interest groups with officials of industry and academia to find out how Linux can be deployed in e-governance, defence, education and so on.
Since support to Linux is till a big issue, the government is also thinking in terms of setting up support and resource services, and call centres for Linux users. It is also looking at setting up pilot sites, where Linux applications can be "touched and felt". A heartening fact for Linux-philes would be the enthusiasm for Linux shown by extremely security-sensitive agencies like Bhabha Atomic Research Centre and the National Information Centre (NIC).
Another aspect that came out in the meeting was the work on Indianisation of Linux that's happening now.
C-DAC's agency NCST and Red Hat have, for instance, developed a Hindi version of Linux, called Indix. IIT Mumbai too is doing pioneering research in Linux.
Yesterday's meeting of industry, academia and government representatives was chaired by IT secretary R R Shah. According to industry sources, companies like Sun and TCS were all enthusiasm for Linux, with the TCS representative claiming that the company was implementing the country's largest Linux project in Chennai. The government, however, was at pains to bring out the fact that it was not against Microsoft or proprietary software and was only looking to leverage the strengths of open source software.
However, one official present at the meeting wisecracked, "Microsoft would have had a heart attack if it was present at the meeting. The interest in Linux at this meeting was palpable."
One influential official told ET that many people were "violently against" computer textbooks in schools and colleges teaching Microsoft Word or Excel, instead of generic applications or technologies, like word processors. Industry sources also said that on the sidelines of the meeting, there were two views among those present about Microsoft's reported move of sharing source code with the government. While some thought it was just "posturing" by MS, others felt that it was a "genuine" attempt by the Redmond giant to reach out.
However, sources said that it was the representative from Madhya Pradesh, who made a forceful case for Linux. He said that since MP had a paucity of resources, Linux seemed the best solution for the state. He, however, said that there was need to train people in Linux technologies. A member of the Linux user group sprang up to say that the MP government can take help of the extremely active Linux User group in Indore.
Actually, English will be just fine. Anybody in India who is well-off enough to deal with computers almost definately speaks English. Whether it's English non-Indians can understand is a different matter all together.
Slashdot 's editors are dickheads
...good for them!
In developing countries, Free/Open software makes tremendous sense. When your average worker doesn't make enough money in the average month to buy a license to Microsoft's latest OS, you know there's a disconnect.
Maybe my home state (CA, the new capital of hideous debt) might take a lesson from India.
"But you've already got a DVD. It lasts forever....In the digital world, we don't need back-ups..."
-- Jack Valenti
"Interestingly, India's plan calls for government-sponsored support and call centers."
Oh joy! Another place to be put on eternity hold.
Any word if they plan on suporting the entire world or just the users in the Indian government?
Not that I hope .NET gains much traction, but if it does I think the Mono project is a real godsend.
.NET is mainly an API and MS seems to be supporting alternate but conforming .NET implementations, the Mono project is another reason to use Linux. If applications start using .NET in the future a government won't be at a disadvantage pushing/using Linux.
Since
smd4985
Maybe you should, maybe you shouldn't, but the point is it provides a positive example of how to engage the government in promoting open source - whatever country you're in. That's of interest to a lot of us, I think - not just the Indian Slashdotters. ;-)
Female Prison Rape in NY
Because the government of the world's largest democracy just told the world's biggest business to go soak its head.
1) Talk up linux.
2) When Bill and Melinda offer money, make nice.
3) Adopt Linux, and watch your people PROFIT.
4) Watch their tax recipts rise.
Whoops, that was 4 steps. Well, government projects usually go over budget.
See what I've been reading.
You guys need to take an economics course. Globalization and outsourcing of jobs to other countries is not bad in and of itself. In fact, in general it benefits everyone in the long run. In the short term the workers who were let go are hurt, but if the proper steps are taken (i.e. new skills training) then the short term loss is minimized.
If it wasn't for cheap foreign labor, America would never have been able to become a service economy. Basically, Americans could not have been as rich without cheap foreign labor.
smd4985
No windows, no gates, apache inside.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Yeah, except for the fact that the world's biggest business is Wal-Mart, and MS doesn't even rank on the top ten.
There are quite a few things I'm seeing going on here that I do have to point out.
It has been voiced that India is foolish for going with open source which "at most will be half done" as opposed to Microsoft.
Think about this: India is a nuclear power, and they can hit major cities. Do we REALLY want a microsoft product running this? Think about it... this would bring entirely new meaning to the term blue screen of death.
Personally I see linux right now being stuck in this trap. They don't have the marketshare because there isn't the development, and they don't have the development because there is no marketshare. One of these things has to be fixed for the other one to be fixed. India is a HUGE populous. If this becomes the OS of choice over in India, it WILL lead to more development of Linux in general of which the entire linux community will benefit.
----- I want my LART.
But if anything my own experience of living there tells me, nothing will come of this move for another 20 years and by that time the MS flag will be flying higher than the stars and stripes.
Democratic USA - Government of the corporations, by the Corporations, for the corporations.
He just has enough money of his own to personally buy every member of congress, the supreme court, and even the president.
With that kind of money, you don't need to adopt the best OS around.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
India sure seems to be a highly contested arena lately.
Does anyone else find it funny that Slashdot, a site with <sarcasm> model journalistic integrity</sarcasm> I might add, always sites itself?
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
Yes, you do, and yes, it does.
You may not have those details to hand, but they are available to you. You may not want those details, but they are available to folks who are able to use them. That's why your fancy-schmancy modern car is significantly better than Grandpa's Model T.
How about Microsoft (1950's Rolls Royce clone, with a trouble-prone Chevy engine) versus Linux (modern Subaru)?
Right. You aren't. We can get jobs through trade with India. We don't have to sell them software to trade. Your conclusion may be obvious, but it is quite possibly wrong.
See what I've been reading.
Within 10 years Linux or one of its offshoots will be the primary OS used on desktop and server computers world-wide. India is looking towards placing themselves in a very advantageous position in this new IT world.
Same thing as anybody with any sort of intelligence has their eye on things such as alternative sources of energy..
Maybe they're poor because of you? Do you really think that if the United States stopped trading with everybody (specifically Iraq and Saudi Arabia, our main oil suppliers considering that Venezuala is for shit now), dropped Alaska (we bought it from Russia, you know, because of good diplomatic relationships), we would still be the super power that we are? No. We would smell and we'd bathe in the Mississippi River. Are you so dumb that you don't understand that? If all other nations did to the United State what you want to do to India and Saudi Arabia, do you think we'd be the way we are? No. No we would not. Get an education, because you've just been outsmarted by a high school freshman.
India is different! They have a lot of brain/man power over there. And they are still a very poor country. That will change tho, and when it does, would you rather them be pushing m$ or something free? It's not about performance or source code, it's completely about economics and control of ones own future and brain power.
Besides, not every country in the world can pay ridiculous license fees for shotty software just to make a few people in some other country richer. Argh, ya know, instead of bitching about other countries, people should go there and check it out first hand. You'll see things in a completely different light and probably realize the whole high-priced, disposable 'american way' can't fly everywhere. jeeze, this is so obvious!
As far as complaing about jobs, sorry man (really!), but remember, those of you lower on the ladder were sacraficed for those higher up. How many bosses took pay cuts or forfeited their vacation so you could stay on board? Absolutely none! So before you go complaing about those bad immigrants or bad people in other countries taking your jobs just remember, someone had to make that decision here at home. And it was your ex-boss/superstar management team.
We won't have to worry about a terrorist attack or the like ruining our economy because we're doing it to ourselves. Give the middle guy a decent wage and get some creative management not selling their souls for the all mighty dollar and we'll go far. Of course, this is completely unrealistic today, but hey, some of us still have to keep thinking ahead..
"System Shutdown Completed: Thank you, come again!"
"Derp de derp."
"Indian Government Moves to Let Linux In"
Wow.. never thought I'd see the day where Linux replaces an entire governing body. That should make for an interesting deomcracy. Everybody can write their own laws!
Would my car perform any better if I had the precise engineering details about how every little part worked? Of course not, because I don't have a Ph.D in mechanical engineering and don't study chemistry.
No, but didja ever think that *maybe* chemists out there might want to put their own ideas and improvements into practice?
And unlike the auto world, in the computer world it's *very* easy to propogate one person's improvements around to everyone.
Linux isn't necessary inherently better just because the source code is widely available.
It's certainly an edge, though it doesn't make it better-regardless-of-other-factors.
The fact that it's also free-as-in-beer is a pretty big incentive, though.
India is no different, and I strongly advise them to buy an already working package for a fair price rather than tinkering with projects that are 20% complete and may never be more than halfway finished.
There are plenty of commercial programs that I don't consider particularly finished, and there are plenty of open-source programs that are finished.
Most stuff that you get when you download a Red Hat ISO is pretty solid stuff. Sure, you can get at CVS to a bunch of projects if you'd like to as well.
Oh, and all you complaining about not having a job -- I think Microsoft and other American companies getting more business means that there'll be more jobs here on the homefront. Just a thought...I'm not economic genius, but it seems to make sense doesn't it?
Keeping jobs in an environment where American workers are demanding obscene pay and benefits and aren't providing equivalently better performance is always going to be an issue. That's an unstable system that's going to break sooner or later. The only solution is for US workers to reduce their demands and take advantage of the benefits their government offers them. Are they drinking beer and watching football on the weekends, or studying a book from our free library system?
May we never see th
they already farm out thier tech-support lines to India. Perhaps MS knowledge will become scarce in India and they'll have to move the call center back to the US.
Right on India, smart move. Here's to hoping the US government won't be the last to migrate over to common sense.
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
"Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?"
Because it means all the PoS's at 7-11 will soon be running Linux.
At least, I think that'll be the biggest effect it'll have on you. Your hotdogs will no longer be pre-made.
In India, labour is cheap. You can hire fairly good prog/sys adm for 1/4th-1/8th the cost of a moderately good American. Linux will help the small businesses, and provide more opportunities to folks (like me) who plan to enter the SMB market with Linux/FOSS consultancy services. (OK, currently I am outside India)
Considering the fact that US Gov/MS have a penchant for interfering, trying to strongarm anyone (including democracies), the less dependent we are on US tech, better for us.
The biggest gains from going F/OSS should happen in the Military, Edu and SMB areas, that's my guess.
BTW, stop trashing India folks. Yoga, decimal system, astronomy, Ayurveda (nature medicine), Meditation, Buddhism, Karate, Sanskrit etc originated in India. Do you westerners ever consider that? All that is FREE! No Patents, No Copyrights.
India can build their own OS, hardware and database system and language, Only problem is Indians are not ready to think this way. They are not ready to fight to get adjusted with current situation of India. As you can see there are more number of psychiatric case in banglore after dot COM then ever. The younger generation's hero is people like sabeer bhatia who earn millions in few years, but that is not the truth any more. The hero who can show path for Indian IT future is the one who will give idea to build entire home made software and hardware solution. The confusing part is that Indians still want to work for foreign company and yet want to live and think like their parents who have experience of working in Indian companies like TATA, BIRLA and Reliance. Or in Indian Government organisation. Where competition means bloody politics, and narrow-minded approach. Indian government must think that ultimately you have to give price to LINUX also in one way or other. As most of the user group are nothing but free bug fixing hut for any software. And as far as cheap labour is the question, ha ha India is the best. Now we have answer of poor people also.
...do you really think that Office, Explorer, Visual Studio, Visual Basic, ect ect ect HASN'T been ported to Lunix?
Yes. The windows API hasn't been ported to Linux, GDI hasn't been ported to Linux. That is a tremendous amount of work that would all have to happen first. This topic hasn't failed to come up, and Microsoft's position has always been that it would much too expensive and their isn't any reason (i.e. the major desktop demand for Linux is to escape the rather low licensing costs so why would these same people pay for Office et al).
Do you really think that if the United States stopped trading with everybody (specifically Iraq and Saudi Arabia, our main oil suppliers considering that Venezuala is for shit now), dropped Alaska (we bought it from Russia, you know, because of good diplomatic relationships), we would still be the super power that we are?
America's greatest rise to international prominance was in the post WWI world where trade had dropped off sharply. Today as a percentage of GDP trade is still not 1/2 what is was before WWI. The fact is that US has an enermous amount of natural resources and a very diverse economy. In terms of relative power a low trade world is probably better for the US than a high trade world. America trades because in terms of absolute growth it is better.
So actually yes we would be a super power regardless.
Because software and hardware vendors will support Linux if they want to sell anything to the 1 billion people down there.
Which translates to more drivers and more software for Linux - for everybody.
US developers still have benefits over Indian ones. They're closer, easier to communicate with.
This is a very big deal. In order to use a remote team - in this case off shore developers - the business users have to actually document what they want and get it right the first time out. Solid requirements... I've seen this type of development succeed only a handful of times, most projects produce something between what they asked for (not to be confused with what they wanted) to catastrophic failure. Come to think of it, it has been a while for requirements too. Anyhow, the short of it is most business users will rather pay US rates so they don't have to do the groundwork required to move stuff over seas. Not to say they don't give it a try once or twice first...
One of my favorites was working with a business user who thought they needed complete creative latitude / absolute control. We went round and round about address and phone number validation. What is valid? (555) 555-1234, SOMENUMBER (alpha characters that map to digits), or extensions? A few months later the call came in on how to handle the UK customer's phone number.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
The only solution is for US workers to reduce their demands
Won't happen. Americans will find something else to do that pays better money.
If I was Bill Gates I'd make up a phony coporation to release the LinuxGaming Distro with full support for DX8.1. Then after it was the most popular distro out there I'd call a press conference and let everyone know it was really me. Of course I'd lose millions on the distro and place my own monopoly in serious danger but boy would it be funny (if I was Bill).
Samsung took back my unlocked bootloader because Google wants me to rent movies. They're both evil.
I don't know.
But he changed the world.
I don't have to call the OS GNU/Linux to know that all this wouldn't have happened without *his* idea.
Linus is great, probably even more competent than many. But RMS kicked the ball. Who knows how many years we would have to wait for Linux, had he not started GNU?
Good night... Sleep well, knowing tomorrow morning no change in EULA will happen to Linux, thanks to good folks like RMS, Linus, many, many others and... the GPL!
It's obvious to anyone in the US that globalization has only made the extremely-rich extremely-richer and the rest of us into WalMart checkout clerks. I don't intend to get a new job in the global economy wiping the ass of the bastards who sold us out.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
"I need to eat."
And what is causing you not to eat? Apparently you have a computer, if you are starving then maybe you can sell your computer and buy some food.
If you are that poor there are always food stamps and welfare. There is a safety net in this country for people who are starving I urge you to take advantage of them. There is no need for anybody to starve in this country.
War is necrophilia.
Once Linux gets a large user-base (yes, You can consider it large now, but you'd be wrong in this context, 'kay?), there will be a shitload of user complaints. Finally something will be done about many of the very serious (to a USER, not a techie) problems which Linux faces. And hopefully, our solutions will be better than those of windows.
Remember: Options, not changes!
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
How big of a tee-pee will the Indians need for their server room?
-1 Wrong.
Is this another case of people in the USA not knowing there is a wider world?
If the United States had not focused so heavily on securing cheap oil military spending would have been much lower; for example: Truman's actions with regard to Iran is what got Stalin to refuse to leave Eastern Europe and started the cold war. American society would have developed without the heavy dependence on oil. In addition the huge losses due to importing oil wouldn't have occured. The major public works projects like the interstate highway system would have been directed at other causes.
Unquestionably were we today to not have oil it would induce a depression. But that wasn't the initial question. The initial question was about an alternate world where the US along with the rest of the world wasn't engaging in trade in any meaningful way (i.e. WWI - WWII trade policy had been maintained in the post WWII world).
So really the question comes down to would I be driving a car using gasoline today in such a world and my guess is that I wouldn't be. Gas prices never come down after WWII and so cars never become the major form of transportation, the migration to the suberbs never occurs....
Thrue. Idia is probably the only fully-functioning democratic country between Australia and Israel and it owes it's ability to function to the existence of a fairly effective public education system and the highly entrepreneurial spirit of it's people.
Unfortunately, this is true for two reasons.
India has GREAT potential to become an economic powerhouse rivalling, maybe even exceeding, the US, the EU and Japan if they stay on their current path.
utter rubbish
But in our "what if" situations, we're talking about policies in the present. What if things were changed today, is what I'm asking. Well, and then there is the overlaying theme that I am a racist is a hateful bastard, but I think that we can all agree on that.
A sudden shift away from trade (particularly oil) would induce a depression. It might be so bad that certain northern cities had to be abandoned. America hasn't abandoned a city since the 17th century that would be huge shock to thing like "investor confidence". A disaster in other words. Unquestionably war is cheaper than trying to survive an oil shock of that magnitude.
A 25 year transition away from imported oil OTOH might not be so difficult. We have lots of uranium. Large portions of the country could make much more heavy use of solar and wind (for example mandatory solar panels on all houses and office buildings in the southern states...). Huge investments in public transit (for example elevated trains for short commutes...). Greater population density in major cities. Reinvestment in railroads to replace the trucking for most interstate trade.... It would be doable.
Oh no, I understand his point quite well. I'm just trying to point out that it has no merit. I achieve that by pointing out that if he dislikes Indians for x reason then he must also dislike Jews for x reason. With that, I can disprove that Jews are whatever he says they are, therefore disproving his original point. In a mathematical proof it's called "supposition" and then when you finally prove the assumed wrong it's called a contradiction.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I can't believe what I'm reading today. I really cannot.
From what I can tell this article was origionally put up on slashdot in order to show that Linux and open software were starting to gain some "marketshare" in the global scheme of things with the Indian government maneuvering to deploy the OS.
So what do I find really as I scroll through the comments today? I see people claiming that this is bad because other countries might be using something other than Microsoft, which employs americans. I see racist comment after racist comment. In fact I've seen so much of it in this thread that I am sickened by this.
If this is the case, you might ask why I'm responding or why I even bothered to continue reading. Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment, or maybe rather than get sickened and let things bother me it gives me the fuel to give a constructive criticism. Either way I'm compelled to speak my mind. Mod me in any direction that seems appropriate.
First of all, I'm having a little trouble seeing how this is costing any american jobs. From everything that I'm gathering here, the Indian government is, by and large, an undeveloped market in computing. No one is losing their job because linux is being used. No market is shrinking over this. The only thing that can be said is that Microsoft is not EXPANDING it's influence into India further. Microsoft still has all the lucritive markets it had before.
Secondly, I've seen many comments about the level of filth or inferiority of the people living over there. Perhaps people have had it too easy for a while to really see one point. In a country like the US, with a relatively strong economy and relatively low unemployment, it is much easier for a person to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. It is much easier to use programs provided by either public or private institutions to train in a field and get a job. What if that was taken away? What if you were born into an environment that wasn't as cushioned? You'd be struggling just as much as anyone there, or anywhere else where life is hard.
Are jobs being lost in the US? Absolutely. Wal-Mart is killing off Mom-and-Pop shops. American companies are killing off other american companies all the time. American companies are even doing things like moving to other spots in the country where employment is low. I can remember the day that the factory in my hometown shut it's doors because the local union employees refused to work for less than $20.00 an hour. They went somewhere more viable for employment. In the case I gave, South Carolina... where people were more than willing to bottle beer for $8.00 an hour. Just because jobs are being lost in America doesn't mean they're being relocated overseas. It's ignorant and just plain fucking stupid to think so.
I do agree with one of the posters I saw here... Americans really do need to learn to tighten their belts if they want to stay competetive. You can't keep on earning a salary that allows you to buy/lease a new car every year, computer upgrades every 6 months, eating out every night, and living like a king to produce a product in a global economy where people with the same skill set are starving and willing to do the same job for much less. It's the reason that a Gibson Les Paul will cost $2000 while the Epiphone Les Paul is $600.
~shakes head~ Okay. I'm done ranting. I'll get off my soap box now. But it's like one poster said... people should be open about thier opinions.
----- I want my LART.
We had an accident in Pennsylvania "look for 3 mile island". Pretty much nothing happened. Nuclear power plants stopped being built because we brought done oil prices. Given a public terrified of nuclear power and cheap oil nuclear doesn't make sense. Given expensive oil it does make sense.
Wrong - the entire US market for cocaine in 1993 was $31 billion - pales in comparison to Wal-Mart's 200+ billion.
> How much money are they saving really? By adopting linux they are also opening thier own tech support centers. Training and hiring those people costs money. They still have to develop (costs money) or buy software (Gee jolly gosh, this costs money too). Supporting linux might actually be a more expensive proposition then sticking with microsoft. I think they did it becuase they feel it is a better operating system. Save money in not needing new hardware maybe? I dont think money was a big factor in thier decision making.
Step back and ask yourself how much money will flow out of the country this way over the next 30 years vs how much would flow out if they didn't switch.
What India and others are doing is commonly called "opting out".
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Chernobyl did major damage because they had less fall back systems. More importantly they lied about what was happening. If there hadn't been secrecy the damage would have been much less.
As for NIBY, inevitable domain exists in every state (and certainly the federal level). A genuine national program with broad political support would simply force it to happen. Similarly for the PR; Americans aren't stupid if they see the government doing as much solar and wind as they can; and cutting out oil and yet saying we are (say) 300 reactors short on the electricty front they will believe the government. And when they say "we need 300 reactors and we are putting them in locations X1 through X300" they'll go along. What's the alternative: no heat in the winter? No transportation at all?
You are correct in that most so-called programmers with less than 5 years experience think they "deserve" a six-figure salary because they used to be with some dot-bomb. You are also correct that most of them aren't productive enough to justify those rates.
The problem is that people with the experience to justify those salaries have a hard time getting noticed and hired when 490 of the 500 resumes submitted are barely or un- qualified.
The problem is also that businesses have no problem nickel and diming their development salaries post-dot-bomb. Hell, I just saw a posting for Oregon that was offering a whopping $12/hour for front-line Unix support. How many people with any kind of professional training (doctor, engineer, lawyer) would even dream of taking a job at such rates? Yet it's "greedy" for me to expect to make a living with a University degree and fifteen years experience to back me up?
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
I am shocked to see how quickly this post has turned into racist troll bait. It's amazing how ugly people's attitudes can turn with a downturn in the economy. So many people here are quick to blame Indians for the fact that there are so many jobs being shifted overseas - aren't the American companies and the US government that allows this also to blame? I do agree that we should be more protective of our domestic economy, but the people that are truly profiting off of cheap Indian labor are the American mega-corps like IBM, Sun and Oracle.
This post has been eye-opening for me, as an unemployed Indian-American programmer, because I've always seen the entire Linux/Free Software/late 90's geek culture as a new kind of social phenomenon unencumbered by the baggage of the past, including racism and nationalistic xenophobia. The idea of all these foreign governments throwing their weight behind Linux means that there will be a larger userbase, more developers, and more vitality to the entire Free Software movement. But instead of greeting this with open arms, I see lots of people denigrating India and Indians. Yeah, more curry jokes and discussion about filthy, stupid Indians. Don't forget that your favorite OS was initially developed overseas by foreigners and is currently picking up lots of steam in Asia.
Sorry, you have the wrong site. Free Republic is at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/browse?ao=1 . :->
Most projects with any real scope miss tons of requirements. This means that the team and customer have to negotiate date or feature slips. Much harder to do if the two cannot meet face to face.
[Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
This is good news indeed. As a linux programmer based in India, this certainly is more than a great news. All the more happy, just like many others out there, that Windows is being shown the door. Beleive it or not, the Open Source champions in India owe a lot of thanks to Bill Gates for this. If he hadn't come to India to make a publicity stunt of supporting the AIDS cause( ofcourse he is more worried about Linux than AIDS ) Linux would not have got so much attention in govt. circles and media as it does now. A few months ago any ordinary business man would know and talk only abt MS and Windows. Now he knows about Linux also. Now whenever the media talks MS it talks about Linux in the same breath. Free OS gets free publicity.
I'm not trying to put a damper on this, but lets not forget what happened in the past. I certainly remember hearing all sorts plans Mexico had for Linux. There were supposed to be millions of installs by now. Now its just remembered as one of Linux's higher profile failures. So while all the rah rah "let's embrace the underdog" talk is nice, get back to me linux hits >50% of the desktops.
3 7, 00.html
If India is as important to the world of software as everyone says it is, Microsoft isn't just going to walk away. They'll throw a billion or two into PR, lobbying, software give-aways, and FUD before giving up. And then they'll throw in a billion more. Remember money IS the only thing that matters(carve that into your dorm room desk). The fact that MS is competing with something that can be downloaded for free doesn't change anything.
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,457
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
Doable, but unlikely. Americans won't walk to work or sit in a train when they can pilot their SUV in luxury and solace. They won't pay for solar cells either.
And Bush is an oil man. He isn't going to mess with big oil.
I also thought all the uranium was in South Africa, and that's why we let them run wild. Maybe that was another element...
That's odd, out of my dozen or so IM contacts in India, all use ICQ or Y!IM (or something that's compatible with one or the other) except one who uses MSN. And he's the only one who isn't a developer. He's employed as a manager by a UK firm that's "standardised" on MS, and isn't allowed to use anything else on the job.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
they are focussed on the cost aspect "inexpensive beer" not the "free as in speech". A few tech savvy individuals dont represent the bulk of bored civil servants and decision makers. They just want to stretch a rupee further.
And that is a bad thing? When I first started mucking around with linux one of the first things I thought was (and I mean this): "If I were in charge of tech for a company I could save them thousands of dollars with this." That was truly my initial reaction and it stands true. It is one of linux's finest points. I have heard all of the arguments about TCO and they don't hold up. Why? Things such as "Linux support will be more expensive" get thrown in there every time. Maybe now, but that concept doesn't scale. Once you get the whole company on linux people will learn to use it. Support will be less of an issue. Besides, if I am providing the support, I would rather that cash go to myself than MS anyways. Linux is good for me.
As a side note, often MORE techies are needed to support windows, so it is well worth it to pay a *nix admin a bit more and sacrifice an MS junky or two.
In India (and numerous other countries), they're poor because foreigners took over their country and siphoned off their wealth for 2 or 3 hundred years.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
I see that you are a little unfamiliar with the rage that only us Americans seem to have. Simply put, we are an angry people. Some people think we just try to pass of blame onto other people to take it off of our own backs. This is sometimes true. But it would be much more accurate to say we just blame everyone for anything for the hell of it. When you get to a certain point of pissed off, you can't have enough targets. If you lose your job to someone willing to work 70 hours a week for 35 grand a year, the "hard working Indian immigrant" becomes a "daiper-head terroist" or "dot wearing misogynists", etc. It isn't that most Americans really hate Indians. Not at all. But when we get pissed we aren't afraid to say it. You will also notice more Americans are killed in violent rage by Americans every year than Indians. We just make fun of you, we kill each other.
Actually, in Japan, it isn't unusual for the higher ups to take a pay cut/lose their bonuses for the lower people to not lose theirs in these current hard times. In good times, upper management gets a good piece of the pie, but they're willing to take less to keep everyone fed in harder times.
Unheard of in North America, I'm sure.
Alright, I'd like you to imagine a Battlemech or a Golem or an Ent--something large. Now, imagine how it walks... Could anything that big ever be described as having precise steps?
Come one, guys "precise" and "wide-reaching steps" just don't go together.
(I think so Brain, but where will find rubber pants our size? NARF!)
Furry cows moo and decompress.
Of course, back then, while Microsoft was definitely one of the competitors, so was IBM's mainframe world, and to some extent other proprietary operating systems like VMS, since DEC machines were in the right price ranges.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The article is light on details but from reading it there were two things I gathered they were doing:
1. When asking for bids, the requirements wouldn't specify Microsoft - rather specify the true requirements.
2. Computer textbooks wouldn't teach Word or Excel - rather teach how to use word processors and spreadsheets.
Both are things they should be doing regardless of Linux. It's asinine to do otherwise.
Mmmm.. Donuts
That's ridiculous, and both of us know it.
Excuse you, but Clinical Depression is not just 'the blues', or feeling a little sad because your boss yelled at you, etc etc.
Yes, I'm aware of the differences.
It's a real disease, and sometimes pills are one of the only, if not the only, treatments with any reasonable degree of effectiveness.
Sure. The common cold is a real disease. Allergies (of the severity that make your nose run constantly for a season, not the kind that cuts off your airways) are as well. And neither are particularly pleasant, but people can also cope with each without throwing down Prozac or Claratin. And if they can't, then they may well have to be...depressed.
The point of my original point is not to attack people who suffer from clinical depression in particular. It's that we're giving ourselves all sorts of perks and rewards that the competition is doing without, and that aren't really all that necessary.
May we never see th
I also thought all the uranium was in South Africa, and that's why we let them run wild. Maybe that was another element...
Actually it was tricium (spelling?) radioactive hydrogen for the H bomb. There were 3 countries that could make this stuff (technology + natural resources): the US, the USSR and South Africa. The USA's was outdated and universally everyone (pentagon included) agreed that they needed to be taken down for multi-year repair work. The USSR wasn't going to sell it to us for obvious reasons. SA wouldn't sell it to us without a lifting of all sanctions.
Other countries have been doing call center outsourcing for a long time - the Caribbean has a lot of it, and while C&W was a monopoly in much of the area, it was much more competent than VSNL, and the area has some level of integration with the US telecom networks.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
As far as concrete pro-Linux acts go, government tenders may soon stop specifying Microsoft or any other vendor's name while floating software tenders
That's precise if you say "will soon" instead of "may soon". Otherwise it's just conjecture.
The government is also setting up special interest groups with officials of industry and academia to find out how Linux can be deployed in e-governance, defence, education and so on.
That's only wide-reaching if these groups actually get up and do something.
Don't get me wrong - I think we'll see a lot of good IT out of India, and indeed there is already a lot of good stuff coming out of there. They are WAY ahead of supposedly developed neighbours yet early enough on the curve to avoid this Microsoft hold on the market. Think about it. In the US, Microsoft has dominated since DOS days, and people can't accept Linux, they think it's something new. IIRC however, Linux is now 10+ years old.
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
I'm a Sys Admin in Switzerland for a small company. I was unemployed here for almost a year before I took the overworked, underpaid job that I now have. I have since found out that a guy from Egypt (MCSE) and a guy from India (CS degree) both interviewed for the job. They were both turned down because they both expected almost double of what I am earning. Their level of IT education was higher than mine and they were both very competent I have heard. I'm envious that I don't have the education to ask for salaries like they did.
The morals of the story:
1.When times are hard you have to go with the times. This goes for workers of every nation, race and creed.
2.An institution will go for the IT solution that provides the best price/performance solution.
3.IT workers of all nations are dumb in that we don't form Unions. The exploitation of IT workers of all nations, seems to be similar to the sweat shops of the third world.
Power to India for considering moving to Linux on a big scale. The independance gained for them is a major point given that MS (and other large US industries) are not above using the US government to strong arm nations into becoming franchises for those same industries. I only wish that some other governments, including those here in Europe *and* the US would have the same long term view, because MS is only going to get more and more mean and tricky the more they fear the Linux revolution.
Sorry, couldn't resist...
"Would my car perform any better if I had the precise engineering details about how every little part worked?
Yes, you do, and yes, it does."
Oh really? Could you please tell us all how to access that? My car is a 1996 and to this day the only place I can get plugs and MAP sensors for it is Ford. The major aftermarket suppliers have told me that's because Ford hasn't released the data.
Speaking of data, the computers seem to be closed devices as well. I would love to have all of the engineering details about them and the source code. In my case, working on public safety vehicles, I could modify those (especially the body control module) to make the vehicle more safe for the operator to do their job.
You guys need to find another industry for an example. The automotive industry is what Microsoft uses as an EXAMPLE, both in engineering and business practices.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
But when one of those "niggers of Asia" was born, do you think that they had a choice? If they were born in the United States to some middle class white Protestant family, do you think they would turn out the same way? Of course not. Your development depends on your enviornment, the reason why if you're cloned and seperated at birth and then you reunite with your clone you will probably be noticably different. What choice do these people have to succeed? None. So how are you going to pass judgement on people who have never gotten the chance?
No, you have to read the other posts to see what I mean by not getting oil from Venezuela, Alaska, Saudi Arabia, or Iraq. If we followed "I am a racist."'s suggestion of "fucking Saudi Arabia," we would not get there oil. He wants to voluntarily stop buying oil from them. And my reason that Alaska would be part of Russia is that if we did what he wanted, cut off all international relations, we would have never even gotten Alaska so very long ago. I'm trying to prove that if not for globalism, what he is so stroly opposed to, we wouldn't have oil, we wouldn't have Alaska, we wouldn't have America. Surely he doesn't think that most of us are Native Americans, does he?
I was trying to convey the fact that the Indians, many of whom are educated but can't find work to suit their education, need it more than the Americans who end up getting the jobs. And yes, that number was arbitrary, $200 per year would be a little more like it.
The USA started becoming a service based economy 5 years ago. Look at education...what have we been training our population for...nothing, but to be consumers.
Your conclusions are all correct, just very late coming, that's all you've managed to point out.
Stay competitive? The horse has left the barn... We're history now...you just don't know it.