Indian Government Moves to Let Linux In

Webi writes "The government of India has started taking precise, wide-reaching steps to usher in a Linux wave in India." India sure seems to be a highly contested arena lately. Interestingly, India's plan calls for government-sponsored support and call centers. Looks like they've really thought this through.

Comments

you better believe

[Anonymous Coward]

I got the first grasshopper post!

Sweet!

[Neck_of_the_Woods]

Maybe they will outsource linux support to the us!

I better start learning my Hindi!

Re:Sweet!

[Bowie J. Poag]

Too late, man. Hindi is obsolete!

Hindi++ is where it's at nowadays.

Re:Sweet!

[einer]

Don't waste your time with that, Microsoft has already broken the Hindi++ interpreter and replaced it with it's own proprietary version called Hindi#.

Re:Sweet!

[Anonymous Coward]

Country with the most number of English speaker?

Not US, not UK, but India.

And unlike some people, most Indians are trilingual.

Re:Sweet!

[Anonymous Coward]

damn - I hope all you unemployed dot.commie scum like curry. And don't forget not to hurt the cows, they get pissed about that over there.

Re:Sweet!

[MagPulse]

I don't know why anyone would write a C++ interpreter, but Microsoft's Visual C++.NET (VC7) is one of the most standards compliant compilers out there. They also just added Herb Sutter to the team, and he's said he's there mainly to push VC++ to full compliance.

Re:Sweet!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahhhh, the inimitable Mr. Poag. How does one go about starting up a flamewar with this dolt? Something as simple as an insult? Or perhaps an attack on his character with links to all of the rubbish he's polluted the internet with over the years? Maybe a jibe at the Amiga and the crufty folks who still hold onto its corpse? I am not really sure what it would take. Hmmm. Well, nothing else to say here. Move along. (Bowie's probably on meds these days anyways)

Re:Sweet!

[Bowie J. Poag]

I love you.

Now STFU, and go back to Starbucks where you belong.

Re:Sweet!

[Anonymous Coward]

resist the urge. responding to the idiot is like scratching an itch that won't go away. i've tried not responding before, and it's tough. he makes the best case for abortion. good luck to you, friend.

p.s. if you see him on the street, however, then i would suggest slapping him silly till he craps his pants.

Re:Sweet!

[Anonymous Coward]

uhh,

I'll take the IN SOVIET RUSSIA 'jokes' anytime over the long overused and never funny *++ jokes.

Re:Sweet!

[Anonymous Coward]

funny... MS is who gave C++ a bad name in the first place by bastardising the language with their own additions.

Software spending?

[I'm a racist.]

Anyone know what kind of money India throws around for software? They've got a lot of people, but are very poor (per capita), so what sort of market is that cesspool?

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares what kind of market India has, would you do business with the brown devil?

Re:Software spending?

[I'm a racist.]

Clearly, Microsoft would and the open source community seems ready to embrace the dot-heads too.

Anyway, I'm just curious... we should all be curious, about everything.

Re:Software spending?

[stevejsmith]

I wonder why it's a cess pool? Maybe because of the long British imperial rule who didn't give a shit about anyone but those three guys who owned those three plantions? No, couldn't be. It's got to be those people who are harming you so much by letting the women put dots on their foreheads. That, again, was sarcasm, in case that American flag was stuck too far up your ass.

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

you're such a fucking racist.

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dot-heads, eh? Boy, you really are a racist aren't you? Fuck off, Nazi scum.

P.S.
You do get brownie points for being so upfront about your..erm...views, fuckwad.

Re:Software spending?

[I'm a racist.]

I don't really care why it's a cess pool. If it's because of the British rule, well, isn't it the fault of India for being so weak in the first place?

Besides, they fucked up the Ganges themselves, then they bathed in it.

Oh, yeah, they're pretty ugly. I don't like having to look at them (they stink too).

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, no fucking kidding. Maybe that's why his nick is "I am a racist", hmmmm?

Re:Software spending?

[stevejsmith]

Maybe they're poor because of you? Do you really think that if the United States stopped trading with everybody (specifically Iraq and Saudi Arabia, our main oil suppliers considering that Venezuala is for shit now), dropped Alaska (we bought it from Russia, you know, because of good diplomatic relationships), we would still be the super power that we are? No. We would smell and we'd bathe in the Mississippi River. Are you so dumb that you don't understand that? If all other nations did to the United State what you want to do to India and Saudi Arabia, do you think we'd be the way we are? No. No we would not. Get an education, because you've just been outsmarted by a high school freshman.

Re:Software spending?

[inteller]

I dunno, sounds like the perfect place for a cheapskate platform like Linux.

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't get outsmarted by you.

Do you really think that if the United States...

If we gave away everything we own we'd be poor. If you took it in the ass you'd be gay. What the hell is your point? We aren't poor, I assume that you don't take it in the ass. You could do billions of "what if" scenarios, but that doesn't change the way things are.

They're filthy because they're filthy. No matter how poor Europeans have been, they knew better than to shit in their drinking/bath water. They're poor because they can't produce anything of value on their own.

Note: I hit the limit of posts for today, hence the "Anonymous Coward"...

Down with Saudi Arabia!!!

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

why is everyone so down on this post? it sounds like a legit question to me

Re:Software spending?

[stevejsmith]

No, you're not reading my comment correctly. The point is that if other countries did what you want to do to them, we would be poor. The only reason India is poor is because of people like you who must shop USA and for those people who don't understand that India = cheaper. If India was given the trade opportunties that the US is given and if they had the relations that we did, they would be just as powerful as us. And if we had the relations that they do, we'd be poor as them. So you are the reason they are poor! Yes, you!

Regarding your point about not producing anything of their own: What the fuck are you talking about? India has some of the best technical institutes in the world and a large portion of the people are college educated (just like most Eastern European countries in the same position), they have vast argiculture capabilities, and they have many vanity resources (spices, dyes, etc.). That's not even mentioning tourism, much livable land, cheap labor (you don't really think that the keyboard your typing on was made by a union worker, do you?), and others.

Re:Software spending?

[jbolden]

Do you really think that if the United States stopped trading with everybody (specifically Iraq and Saudi Arabia, our main oil suppliers considering that Venezuala is for shit now), dropped Alaska (we bought it from Russia, you know, because of good diplomatic relationships), we would still be the super power that we are?

America's greatest rise to international prominance was in the post WWI world where trade had dropped off sharply. Today as a percentage of GDP trade is still not 1/2 what is was before WWI. The fact is that US has an enermous amount of natural resources and a very diverse economy. In terms of relative power a low trade world is probably better for the US than a high trade world. America trades because in terms of absolute growth it is better.

So actually yes we would be a super power regardless.

Re:Software spending?

[stevejsmith]

Does you or somebody you know drive a car? When one drives a car, they put gasoline in, right? Where does that gasoline come from? Oil, right? Where does that oil come from? Venezuala, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, or Alaska, most likely. Venezuala is on the verge of civil war, you've isolated yourself from the Saudis and the Iraqis, and Alaska is under the control of Putin. Oh well, it looks like your kids aren't gonna get to soccer practice.

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't care that I made them poor. If it benefitted me, good, fuck them. They allowed me (or us, including you) to do it to them, so what does that say about them?

I don't care that a bunch of them are educated. Most are not, and the ones that are educated tend to not be too smart. I've seen it myself. Their best and brightest make it over here to work, and they're only mediocre. Don't forget, there's a billion of those curry-eaters, the ones you see are the best out of that billion.

They can barely feed their own population. They're riddled with disease. They are filthy. They're dumb and/or uneducated. They're poor. All of this is because of their own inferiority. Of course it's related to their sociopolitical position in the world, but they are in that position because of themselves.

Stop making excuses for the failures of a race. Let them accept the responsibility of being inferior and suffer the consequences.

I hope some little kid, making $0.05 per week was whipped until he properly assembled my keyboard! The little bastard had it coming anyway...

Down with Saudi Arabia!!!

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

Saudi Arabia exists solely to supply us with oil. Of course, they take that same money and use it against us (hence my signature).

Don't think for a second that we would tolerate them cutting us off, and don't think they aren't very aware of this fact. If they thought they could cut us off, they would've done so long ago. They fuck with us as much as they feel they can, without fear of retribution. They are pussies and weaklings (ie. they're arabs). One day, probably soon, they will taste nuclear fire...

Down with Saudi Arabia!!!

Re:Software spending?

[stevejsmith]

You, my good sir, are a hypocrite.

I don't care that I made them poor.

All of this is because of their own inferiority.

Unless you made them inferior, you have to pick a position. Did you make them poor, or are they inferior?

By the same token, were the Jews inferior? Were the Poles inferior? Are Africans inferior? Are homosexuals inferior? Are gypsies inferior? Are Catholics inferior? Because they were all persecuted and killed by the Nazis. All of 'em. What about blacks? It's true, they have a higher poverty level than whites in America. Are they inferior? Are they "filthy" because they have a high AIDS rate? Are they "dumb" because they are statistically less educated than white? Are they "poor" because on a whole they have a higher poverty rate? Are they murderers because the leading cause of death in healthy, black males within the less-than-old age range is homocide?

Where do you draw the line? Are Romanians inferior because they were beaten by the Turks and are now one of the poorest countries in Europe? Are Jews inferior because six million of them accepted the fate of death in the death chambers? Because if they are, then I have to as you, why am I--a Romanian Jew--sitting here on a computer reading a [fairly] intelligent news source, being somebody with some intelligence in a middle class family, one who will most likely go on to college, inferior to you? Because if I am, I don't see it.

Re:Software spending?

[stevejsmith]

You really think that the US would go to war if we cut off their oil supply? And why is that? What gives the US the right to demand that countries trade? Just because we use up more gas on useless things (*cough*SUVs*cough*), that makes us more eligible for the oil? That's their home. That's their Jerusalem. That's where their Prophet was born, died, and lived. That's where their religion started. What gives you the right to take that away from you? The fact that you need to ride in 4x4 and drive two blocks down when you could easily walk? I think not, you bastard.

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think he's saying that they're inferior, and that it's our duty to exploit those that are inferior. you know, kinda like the other kids do to you.

they're poor because they aren't smart enough to avoid exploitation.

Re:Software spending?

[stevejsmith]

On the same token, you could say that the Jews weren't smart enough to avoid being gassed. So let's gass 'em, right? Me first, me first!

Re:Software spending?

[stevejsmith]

Like the other kids exploit me? Buddy, I don't know what high school you went to, but I was never forced to produce your sneakers at gunpoint for fifty cents per day in 120 degree heat. Unless of course your school was a sweatshop. Was it?

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

we probably wouldn't go to war. I'm sure we would just get rid of Saddam in a hurry and set up our own puppet government in Iraq. until we could replace our current puppet government in Saudi Arabia, of course.

Re:Software spending?

[jbolden]

If the United States had not focused so heavily on securing cheap oil military spending would have been much lower; for example: Truman's actions with regard to Iran is what got Stalin to refuse to leave Eastern Europe and started the cold war. American society would have developed without the heavy dependence on oil. In addition the huge losses due to importing oil wouldn't have occured. The major public works projects like the interstate highway system would have been directed at other causes.

Unquestionably were we today to not have oil it would induce a depression. But that wasn't the initial question. The initial question was about an alternate world where the US along with the rest of the world wasn't engaging in trade in any meaningful way (i.e. WWI - WWII trade policy had been maintained in the post WWII world).

So really the question comes down to would I be driving a car using gasoline today in such a world and my guess is that I wouldn't be. Gas prices never come down after WWII and so cars never become the major form of transportation, the migration to the suberbs never occurs....

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

you seem to have this fascination with Jews being inferior... does gassing them give you some kind of sick thrill? shit happens. I didn't do it, nor do I think it was a good thing.

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was never forced to produce your sneakers at gunpoint for fifty cents per day in 120 degree heat.

might have done you some good. you might not have grown up to be such a whiner...

anyway, I was actually talking about the tough kids that take your lunch money, or the smart kids that trick you out of it.

Re:Software spending?

[stevejsmith]

But in our "what if" situations, we're talking about policies in the present. What if things were changed today, is what I'm asking. Well, and then there is the overlaying theme that I am a racist is a hateful bastard, but I think that we can all agree on that.

Re:Software spending?

[stevejsmith]

I just don't understand why the Indians are inferior and not the Jews, by your reasoning. If the Indians are inferior because they are being exploited, would the Jews be horribly inferior because they were gassed? Under your logic, I don't see why the fuck not.

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

that's because you still think you're talking to the racist. I was just explaining his stance, because you seemed unable to understand what he was saying.

I see know that you're not so fucking bright, so I guess my efforts were in vain.

and I'm sure he would suggest that the Jews are just as inferior. what difference does it make? you're not really proving a point here... there are Jewish people of all races, so maybe you're not quite clear on this concept, as usual.

Re:Software spending?

[jbolden]

A sudden shift away from trade (particularly oil) would induce a depression. It might be so bad that certain northern cities had to be abandoned. America hasn't abandoned a city since the 17th century that would be huge shock to thing like "investor confidence". A disaster in other words. Unquestionably war is cheaper than trying to survive an oil shock of that magnitude.

A 25 year transition away from imported oil OTOH might not be so difficult. We have lots of uranium. Large portions of the country could make much more heavy use of solar and wind (for example mandatory solar panels on all houses and office buildings in the southern states...). Huge investments in public transit (for example elevated trains for short commutes...). Greater population density in major cities. Reinvestment in railroads to replace the trucking for most interstate trade.... It would be doable.

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

>I don't care that I made them poor. If it >benefitted me, good, fuck them.
But you don't like it when your philosophy is applied to you. They take away your jobs and suddenly it's not fair.

> and the ones that are educated tend to not be >too smart.
Please step into Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Stanford, Caltech - meet the faculty and students. See who is doing the cutting edge research. Get a list of winners at the Math Olympiad, etc. True their are some not so brilliant ones around, but, hey, somebody needs to do your job right?

> They're riddled with disease.
Ever heard of the WTO and IP on life saving medicines.

>They are filthy
Part of being an Indian involves bathing every day early in the morning. On the other hand there are enough Americans that don't bathe everyday, don't wash up after using the rest room, don't wash their faces before showing up for work.

> They're dumb and/or uneducated
Just like you. Anyway, your definition of intelligence presupposes education.

> They're poor.
So are people in the bronx - you're point?

> All of this is because of their own inferiority.
Or maybe because they're a peace loving people who've been exploited for centuries.

> Stop making excuses for the failures of a race.

The colonial powers of the years gone by - England, Spain, Portugal

The country responsible for mass extermination of the Jews - Germany.

(I'm sure you know their race)

>I hope some little kid, making $0.05 per week >was whipped until he properly assembled my >keyboard! The little bastard had it coming >anyway...

He wouldn't want that for you because he was taught to be compassionate and look beyond his own nose. You on the other hand...

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

nuclear energy would be nice, but I can't remember a nuclear power plant being built since the 70's(early 80's at the latest). too many accidents for the public to be comfortable. actually, one accident would have been too many.

we do have large ammounts of coal and natural gas. both are very clean and relatively abundant. some nice solar plant ideas are starting to pop up.

maybe Nissan's shift to hybrids might actually make the auto market fall into line, that would reduce some of our dependancy on foreign oil.

Re:Software spending?

[stevejsmith]

Oh no, I understand his point quite well. I'm just trying to point out that it has no merit. I achieve that by pointing out that if he dislikes Indians for x reason then he must also dislike Jews for x reason. With that, I can disprove that Jews are whatever he says they are, therefore disproving his original point. In a mathematical proof it's called "supposition" and then when you finally prove the assumed wrong it's called a contradiction.

Re:Software spending?

[jbolden]

We had an accident in Pennsylvania "look for 3 mile island". Pretty much nothing happened. Nuclear power plants stopped being built because we brought done oil prices. Given a public terrified of nuclear power and cheap oil nuclear doesn't make sense. Given expensive oil it does make sense.

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

sorry kid, you're not going to ever be able to prove that. racists don't think Jews are dumb, they just think they're the enemy. they usually come up with some scenario where the Jews are in control of the media and the economy and are constantly waging war against white people.

in racist mythology, the Jews are sons of devils with the sole purpose of oppressing the white race.

contradict that. it's impossible to use logic against theories based on emotion. people with a little cunning often get poor people to believe that the reason they're poor is because of some oppressing force. this is what Hitler did, and this is what Bin Laden and others have done and are still doing.

Re:Software spending?

[Melantha_Bacchae]

stevejsmith wrote:

> Where does that oil come from? Venezuala, Saudi
> Arabia, Iraq, or Alaska, most likely.

The US gets 15% of its oil from Venezuela, and 5% (when they are in the mood) from Iraq.

They aren't the only oil producing areas to shop from:
US: Texas, Louisiana, California, Oklahoma, and Alaska
Rest of North America: Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Canada
Middle East: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates
Europe: Russia, United Kingdom, Norway
Africa: Northern Africa, Nigeria
Asia: China, Indonesia

> Venezuala is on the verge of civil war,

Venezuela is attempting to depose their president by having a strike. Very innovative of them. However, I don't think they can keep it up very long since it is massively hurting their economy.

> you've isolated yourself from the Saudis and the
> Iraqis,

The Saudis don't want to get caught between the US and Iraq. I can't say I blame them. I doubt they would discontinue selling us oil, as it would hurt them too. Iraq has been refusing to sell their oil as a form of protest of our current state of unfriendliness (or some such reason).

> and Alaska is under the control of Putin.

Huh? You do know the US bought Alaska from Russia a long time ago, don't you? It is a state of the United States of America! I don't see how Putin would have any control unless he got elected governor of Alaska. He'd have to be a US citizen for that to happen, and there might be some conflict with his current job. ;)

Now returning you to your regularly scheduled topic. I'm glad India is telling Microsoft where to go (bad litterbugs). Linux is a good start for them, but there is no reason they can't develop a few operating systems of their own. The more the merrier, as long as open standards let everything work together.

Chief Tsujimori: "I won't let you get away. I will never let you escape."
Godzilla elegantly lifts his tail skyward to give her the "finger", crashes it down on the water, and submerges.
"Godzilla X Megagiras", 2000

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

on the other hand, Chernobyl did major damage... it's just a misconception they have. the scary thing is that the old plants that still exist could easily be replaced by modern plants that have less chance of mishap.

people still have a picture of smoke stacks spewing out black fog when you mention coal, so I'm not sure how easy it would be to get people trusting nuclear power again.

the government and the private sector would have to work together with a massive campaign to start.

those "not in my backyard" laws haven't helped the situation.

Re:Software spending?

[jbolden]

Chernobyl did major damage because they had less fall back systems. More importantly they lied about what was happening. If there hadn't been secrecy the damage would have been much less.

As for NIBY, inevitable domain exists in every state (and certainly the federal level). A genuine national program with broad political support would simply force it to happen. Similarly for the PR; Americans aren't stupid if they see the government doing as much solar and wind as they can; and cutting out oil and yet saying we are (say) 300 reactors short on the electricty front they will believe the government. And when they say "we need 300 reactors and we are putting them in locations X1 through X300" they'll go along. What's the alternative: no heat in the winter? No transportation at all?

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

i agree.
indians, especially the southern ones (the northen ones have caucasian blood so they're usually smarter and don't look half as disgusting as the southerners) are basically the niggers of asia. i don't like saying this and i know it doesn't sit well with most people but its the harsh truth. in most countries roughly 2% of the indian migrants are computer programmers, etc, and the other 98% are labourers (construction workers, etc), and its the 98% that cause lots of social problems like lawlessness, squatter settlements, etc. just go to the "little india" of any country and you'll see what i mean.

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you pray to brown D_____ ? Check this out From science and computers, a new face of Jesus
Sorry, this might be a flamebait but some people need enlightenment!

Re:Software spending?

[norculf]

Doable, but unlikely. Americans won't walk to work or sit in a train when they can pilot their SUV in luxury and solace. They won't pay for solar cells either.

And Bush is an oil man. He isn't going to mess with big oil.

I also thought all the uranium was in South Africa, and that's why we let them run wild. Maybe that was another element...

Re:Software spending?

[Anonymous Coward]

They're filthy because they're filthy. No matter how poor Europeans have been, they knew better than to shit in their drinking/bath water. They're poor because they can't produce anything of value on their own.

Maybe you need to catch up on your history and economics.

The English (ok, they think they're American these days, but let's just say they're European, ok) didn't have baths thoughout recent history (1500s to 1800s). Why do you think they wore wigs? Disease made their hair fall out. What was the average life expectancy? 35 was a ripe old age.

Indians had baths from the time of the Indus Valley civilisation, a few thousand years ago. India was a prosperous group of countries till about the 1800s, when the British rule screwed things up. I don't have the patience to go into detail here, but just try and check out India's population growth over the centuries. It's only in this century that Indian population outgrew the world's population growth rate.

Being poor means that you have less access to hygiene, and it also becomes less important than food. Don't stereotype a country based on it's less privileged people, else everyone may conclude that the US is full of people like you.

Re:Software spending?

[Zontar The Mindless]

No matter how poor Europeans have been, they knew better than to shit in their drinking/bath water. They're poor because they can't produce anything of value on their own.

This shouldn't be dignified with a response, but it needs to be pointed out that AC obviously hasn't read his history. European (and American) history is rife with instances of plagues caused by ... guess what?

In India (and numerous other countries), they're poor because foreigners took over their country and siphoned off their wealth for 2 or 3 hundred years.

Re:Software spending?

[jbolden]

I also thought all the uranium was in South Africa, and that's why we let them run wild. Maybe that was another element...

Actually it was tricium (spelling?) radioactive hydrogen for the H bomb. There were 3 countries that could make this stuff (technology + natural resources): the US, the USSR and South Africa. The USA's was outdated and universally everyone (pentagon included) agreed that they needed to be taken down for multi-year repair work. The USSR wasn't going to sell it to us for obvious reasons. SA wouldn't sell it to us without a lifting of all sanctions.

Re:Software spending?

[stevejsmith]

But when one of those "niggers of Asia" was born, do you think that they had a choice? If they were born in the United States to some middle class white Protestant family, do you think they would turn out the same way? Of course not. Your development depends on your enviornment, the reason why if you're cloned and seperated at birth and then you reunite with your clone you will probably be noticably different. What choice do these people have to succeed? None. So how are you going to pass judgement on people who have never gotten the chance?

Re:Software spending?

[stevejsmith]

No, you have to read the other posts to see what I mean by not getting oil from Venezuela, Alaska, Saudi Arabia, or Iraq. If we followed "I am a racist."'s suggestion of "fucking Saudi Arabia," we would not get there oil. He wants to voluntarily stop buying oil from them. And my reason that Alaska would be part of Russia is that if we did what he wanted, cut off all international relations, we would have never even gotten Alaska so very long ago. I'm trying to prove that if not for globalism, what he is so stroly opposed to, we wouldn't have oil, we wouldn't have Alaska, we wouldn't have America. Surely he doesn't think that most of us are Native Americans, does he?

text of the article

[Anonymous Coward]

Govt move on to let in Linux
PRASENJIT BHATTACHARYA

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 25, 2002 12:54:49 PM ]

NEW DELHI: The government of India has started taking precise, wide-reaching steps to usher in a Linux wave in India.

And that cannot be good news for proprietary software vendors like Microsoft. Yesterday, the IT ministry had a meeting of around 70 people, from companies like HP, IBM, Sun and TCS, government agencies like BARC and CDAC, state governments like Kerala, West Bengal and MP to evolve a level playing field for Linux vis-a-vis proprietary software (read Microsoft).

All the IITs too were represented at the meeting that went on for 4 hours.

There was consensus in the meeting that Linux was a secure, robust and cost-effective system.

As far as concrete pro-Linux acts go, government tenders may soon stop specifying Microsoft or any other vendor's name while floating software tenders, thus throwing open the way for Linux vendors to grab lucrative government contracts hitherto barred from them.

The government is also setting up special interest groups with officials of industry and academia to find out how Linux can be deployed in e-governance, defence, education and so on.

Since support to Linux is till a big issue, the government is also thinking in terms of setting up support and resource services, and call centres for Linux users. It is also looking at setting up pilot sites, where Linux applications can be "touched and felt". A heartening fact for Linux-philes would be the enthusiasm for Linux shown by extremely security-sensitive agencies like Bhabha Atomic Research Centre and the National Information Centre (NIC).

Another aspect that came out in the meeting was the work on Indianisation of Linux that's happening now.

C-DAC's agency NCST and Red Hat have, for instance, developed a Hindi version of Linux, called Indix. IIT Mumbai too is doing pioneering research in Linux.

Yesterday's meeting of industry, academia and government representatives was chaired by IT secretary R R Shah. According to industry sources, companies like Sun and TCS were all enthusiasm for Linux, with the TCS representative claiming that the company was implementing the country's largest Linux project in Chennai. The government, however, was at pains to bring out the fact that it was not against Microsoft or proprietary software and was only looking to leverage the strengths of open source software.

However, one official present at the meeting wisecracked, "Microsoft would have had a heart attack if it was present at the meeting. The interest in Linux at this meeting was palpable."

One influential official told ET that many people were "violently against" computer textbooks in schools and colleges teaching Microsoft Word or Excel, instead of generic applications or technologies, like word processors. Industry sources also said that on the sidelines of the meeting, there were two views among those present about Microsoft's reported move of sharing source code with the government. While some thought it was just "posturing" by MS, others felt that it was a "genuine" attempt by the Redmond giant to reach out.

However, sources said that it was the representative from Madhya Pradesh, who made a forceful case for Linux. He said that since MP had a paucity of resources, Linux seemed the best solution for the state. He, however, said that there was need to train people in Linux technologies. A member of the Linux user group sprang up to say that the MP government can take help of the extremely active Linux User group in Indore.

fuck fuck fuck

[Anonymous Coward]

fuck the globalists and the chinks/browns who take our jobs away

Re:fuck fuck fuck

[I'm a racist.]

fuck the globalists and the chinks/browns who take our jobs away

Nice sentiment, but next time be a little more proud of your thoughts and don't post as "Anonymous Coward". There's nothing wrong with not liking the chinks/browns who take our jobs away. If more people would actually speak up about these problems, we could actually fix them.

Re:fuck fuck fuck

[smd4985]

You guys need to take an economics course. Globalization and outsourcing of jobs to other countries is not bad in and of itself. In fact, in general it benefits everyone in the long run. In the short term the workers who were let go are hurt, but if the proper steps are taken (i.e. new skills training) then the short term loss is minimized.

If it wasn't for cheap foreign labor, America would never have been able to become a service economy. Basically, Americans could not have been as rich without cheap foreign labor.

Re:fuck fuck fuck

[I'm a racist.]

I wasn't commenting on the economics of the situation. In fact, that's a very complex issue, and various aspects of globalization can be good or bad. We could certainly bounce posts back and forth on the subject for weeks. I was just commenting on the fact that people love to express controversial opinions as "Anonymous Coward", instead of standing behind their beliefs.

As you can tell, I'm a racist. My posts often get modded down, just because of my username. But, I'm still very upfront about my beliefs. I think if more people were honest about what they think, we'd be better off.

Re:fuck fuck fuck

[Anonymous Coward]

what new skills training? requalify the DBAs and the Architects into janitors? no thanks.

PS. I'm not registered, I always post as AC

Re:fuck fuck fuck

[benjamindees]

It's obvious to anyone in the US that globalization has only made the extremely-rich extremely-richer and the rest of us into WalMart checkout clerks. I don't intend to get a new job in the global economy wiping the ass of the bastards who sold us out.

Re:fuck fuck fuck

[poo203]

"As you can tell, I'm a racist. My posts often get modded down, just because of my username."

Well, you could change your name to I'm a fuckwit.

HTH.

Re:fuck fuck fuck

[Anonymous Coward]

it's even for the richer's own good to keep us well fed, or we might accidentally find a stash of AK-47s

Re:fuck fuck fuck

[Anonymous Coward]

true. there are good sides to globalization. But there are also big risks too. Such as how long it takes to globalization to actually work after its 'version 1'.

It looks like it will be a corrupt $$ ruled and goverment exploited world for a long time until things get so bad that something is done about it. Then, if the humans are still alive it will be good.

Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[Bowie J. Poag]

Let India worry about itself.

I need to eat.

Re:Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[greenrd]

Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

Maybe you should, maybe you shouldn't, but the point is it provides a positive example of how to engage the government in promoting open source - whatever country you're in. That's of interest to a lot of us, I think - not just the Indian Slashdotters. ;-)

Re:Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[agentZ]

Because the government of the world's largest democracy just told the world's biggest business to go soak its head.

Re:Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[ceejayoz]

Yeah, except for the fact that the world's biggest business is Wal-Mart, and MS doesn't even rank on the top ten.

Re:Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[peripatetic_bum]

Because the floodgates of jobs that are going to India are just going to get wider and anyone with half a clue is going to realize that they are going to be computer against a huge nation with as much a talent pool to draw from as they US has, esp when it comes to tech

Re:Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[einer]

Sorry, your list is wrong. Columbia's leading cocaine cartel is by far the largest operating 'business' on the planet. I would even put them on the same ethical footing. At least they're producing something that people WANT to use. ;)

Re:Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

In marketcap they are No. 1 or close.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=msft+wmt&d=t

Re:Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[mixmasta]

yeah, says MS is #72

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/fortune500

Re:Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[mab]

Yep its number 175 according to this

Re:Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[Anonvmous Coward]

"Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?"

Because it means all the PoS's at 7-11 will soon be running Linux.

At least, I think that'll be the biggest effect it'll have on you. Your hotdogs will no longer be pre-made.

Re:Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[Spellbinder]

it will bring funds for new opensource software so we should realy care ==)))

Re:Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[rseuhs]

Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

Because software and hardware vendors will support Linux if they want to sell anything to the 1 billion people down there.

Which translates to more drivers and more software for Linux - for everybody.

Re:Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention that Columbian resellers are trained commandos, unlike losers working at Walmart.

Re:Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[Malcontent]

"I need to eat."

And what is causing you not to eat? Apparently you have a computer, if you are starving then maybe you can sell your computer and buy some food.

If you are that poor there are always food stamps and welfare. There is a safety net in this country for people who are starving I urge you to take advantage of them. There is no need for anybody to starve in this country.

Re:Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

If only you knew how hotdogs are made you wouldn't eat it at all. Just to give you a hint, I would rather lick a public toilet bowl than eat a hotdog. Your call.

Re:Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[ceejayoz]

Wrong - the entire US market for cocaine in 1993 was $31 billion - pales in comparison to Wal-Mart's 200+ billion.

Re:Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[DAldredge]

Sorry, you have the wrong site. Free Republic is at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/browse?ao=1 . :->

Re:Ok, And I Should Caaaree......Why?

[miu]

Because the government of the world's largest democracy just told the world's biggest business to go soak its head.

I love it when people call India a democracy. The caste system is a very effective means of keeping the proles in check. Hell, in India they are not even proles, proles are at least human.

As others have pointed out - Microsoft is hardly the world's largest business.

English in India

[Mdog]

Actually, English will be just fine. Anybody in India who is well-off enough to deal with computers almost definately speaks English. Whether it's English non-Indians can understand is a different matter all together.

Re:English in India

[robb0995]

I am in the process of opening a satellite office in India for my company to hire developers and back office personnel, and language doesn't really seem to be a barrier at all.

In fact, my next trip over, I am scheduled to meet with training centers that train call center agents to speak with a midwestern american accent, and even teaches them current events!! So, this is not even socio-economic class-based, as developers earn significantly more than they do.

You have to remember that the country was a UK colony until 1948, English is not nearly the problem I worried that it might be.

Re:English in India

[Paradise Pete]

Anybody in India who is well-off enough to deal with computers almost almost definately speaks English

Better than you, I'm guessing.

Re:English in India

[SpaceLifeForm]

You're almost almost definitely incorrect. I mean, you're almost almost psychic if you can determine his speaking ability from his writing! And I'm not guessing. ;~)

Re:English in India

[Iguanaphobic]

Sort of like the "English" spoken in most of the US. Whether it's English most non-USains can understand...

Don't forget that most TV anchors are Canadian. They actually speak English.

Re:English in India

[Daimaou]

I worked in India for a little while. Just like anywhere else, there are some people who could speak English really well, some who could get by, and some who I had to communicate with using hand signals, facial expressions, and a lot of pointing at things.

Re:English in India

[Zontar The Mindless]

I have done a great deal of work over the last year or two with people in India. In fact, it's thanks on large part to them that I'm able to support myself at the moment, since I'm currently a nonresident alien in the country where I now reside and thus not permitted to have a job as such. (Nebing an American who finds oneself in that situation is a bit ironic, I must admit, given that in the States we're always hearing about foreigners trying to enter the country to take our jobs.)

Without boring you with the details, let me just say that many of the programming books you're buying these days are written and edited there, at least in part. (And some of the "polishing up" work gets outsourced to me.)

Their enthusiasm for doing useful, meaningful work is genuine, as is their desire not to be lisence-taxed to death while trying to do it. They simply can't afford it. So Linux and other Open Source technologies are a natural for them.

I also wonder if it'd have done Microsoft much good to make a pitch in any case. According to Microsoft's own "Attitudes Towards Shared Source and Open Source Research Study", as quoted in the Halloween Documents,

Ratings for messages that were meant to be negative actually had a positive response among the respondents. For example, when read what was supposed to be a negative OSS message about OSS and proprietary software having a similar TCO, nearly half (49%) of all respondents said that having heard this message they were now MORE FAVORABLE towards OSS.

In other words, the very things that MS keep trying to tell people are "evil" about OSS are in fact what people actually like about it! Especially those people concerned with the bottom line because they can't afford not to be.

Re:English in India

[Pranjal]

You have to remember that the country was a UK colony until 1948
Actually it's 1947, starting from 1857.

Re:English in India

[maverick132]

Language is not a barrier in India. Being an Indian myself, I've seen more people interact with each other in this multi-lingual country than the regional languages. Thanks to the huge revoultion in IT and IT enabled services, english in India is much better than it was.

But the problem as I see of letting Linux into Government offices is MS. In his recent visit to India Bill Gates was able to woo quite a lot of politicians with his philanthrophic gestures( not to mention the hidden business motiveds). He has now won contracts in the Indian states of Karnataka and Andhra to supply MSWindows at a subsidised rate to schools. Even if the price is large MS would be churning out more dollars. It looked like more of a marketting campaign for his products........so rite now MS is the only problem...(not to mention his philanthropic attitude) and definitely not language.

Re:English in India

[jez9999]

I dunno. The Simpsons is quite easy for me to understand (I'm UKian) and I'm pretty sure that's created by Americans.

Re:English in India

[Paradise Pete]

you're almost almost psychic if you can determine his speaking ability from his writing!

If I could determine it I wouldn't be guessing, now would I?

Re:English in India

[SoftwareJanitor]

Only one of the three major networks' anchors are Canadian (ABC's Peter Jennings). Dan Rather of CBS (from Texas) and Tom Brokaw (from South Dakota) of NBC are both American. 1/3 is hardly what I'd call "most". And even Peter Jennings tries to sound like he is from the midwestern US, which is considered the "weatherman" dialect in the US.

Re:English in India

[oncewasclever]

An English-speaking Indian would laugh at your attempted spelling of the word "definitely".

So you made a racist joke and you got modded all the way up as funny. Woop-de-doo. Your intended victims at least get the pleasure that your joke, regarding their apparently poor English skills, has neatly rebounded and shown you up for the ignorant buffoon you really are.

A note to all the moderators who modded the post up as funny: Perhaps a little self-examination is in order?

Hopefully they'll keep coking.

[egg troll]

I sure hope this doesn't take away from their ability to make curries and naan. I swear I've never had better food in my life than Indian food. Mmmm....tandori

Re:Hopefully they'll keep coking.

[Jennifer Ever]

Fuck yeah! Naan and that bangin' Martha crap. bang tan barta or something. With that green mint sauce. Ohh yeah.

Re:Hopefully they'll keep coking.

[Mark19960]

troll. sod off and die. last thing we need are trolls.

Re:Hopefully they'll keep coking.

[Anonymous Coward]

Moderators, how the FUCK is the parent a troll? The poster was expressing his admiration for the glory that is Indian cuisine. By marking his post as a troll, you have obviously indicated your distaste for Indian food and that makes you a xenophobic, racist, ignorant AmeriKKKan fool. I hope you burn in hell for your selfish act of senseless moderation.

So Billy Boy couldn't bully the Indians...

[MamasGun]

...good for them!

In developing countries, Free/Open software makes tremendous sense. When your average worker doesn't make enough money in the average month to buy a license to Microsoft's latest OS, you know there's a disconnect.

Maybe my home state (CA, the new capital of hideous debt) might take a lesson from India.

Re:So Billy Boy couldn't bully the Indians...

[I'm a racist.]

Does open source really make sense?

What would a total cost analysis show? Would the cost of administration, customization, training, support, and finding the necessary applications cancel any benefits of not buying licenses?

One thing a lot of people ignore is that software, on an enterprise scale, almost always comes with a support package and some amount of custom solutions. Of course, the quality of the support/solutions is up for debate on a per company basis.

Still, open source might be cheaper, but I haven't investigated enough to be sure. I tend to not trust the analysis of someone pushing an agenda (MS, Stallman, etc.).

Re:So Billy Boy couldn't bully the Indians...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, all that support and so forth can come from LOCAL BUSINESSES instead of allmighty Microsoft. A handful of smart teenagers learning the Linux source code will do wonders for innovation and local business in India, I'd bet.

Better to pay a local $10 instead of shipping $100 to Microsoft, eh?

Foreign companies of any type would be better off NOT being under microsoft's (or the USA's) control. (And no, you're not under Stallman's control if you use Linux, so who cares what his agenda is).

Re:So Billy Boy couldn't bully the Indians...

[drudd]

You have to remember that India is developing very rapidly as an IT power, but the rest of its economy is still struggling.

So the labor costs in India relative to license fees are MUCH lower than in the US. So open source is removing the bulk of operating costs.

Doug

Re:So Billy Boy couldn't bully the Indians...

[jsse]

When your average worker doesn't make enough money in the average month to buy a license to Microsoft's latest OS, you know there's a disconnect.

At the first glance I thought I saw a new Microsoft Ad:

"When your average worker doesn't make enough money in the average month to buy a license to Microsoft's latest OS, you know there's a discount!"

At least I saw similar thing in their academic licenses campaign.

Re:So Billy Boy couldn't bully the Indians...

[cant_get_a_good_nick]

I'm not a zealot, I believe in the right tool for the job. I'm lucky enough that I understand programs and programming fairly quickly and can use a variety of toolsets. I do not assume that everyone is like me, and everyone makes the same value decisions on ease of use. free/libre, support and all that. I think that is where RMS and other zealots fail. RMS is a programmer, a pretty good one in fact, but his views are sometimes colored by that.

I think an unbiased TCO analysis is kind of hard now. Each side has an agenda to push. Depending on what you investigate you can come up with different numbers. The only survey I can think of that I consider did a decent job on TCO is an survey that shows apache on linux is cheaper than the main alternatives. That obviously doesn't show "user" apps, just servers.

As far as the bias goes, I think the way TCO is asked is biased as well. I rarely see people include the cost of Microsoft's essentially forced upgrades or the time and effort tracking obtaining and tracking licenses. There are also some intagibles, such as not being locked in, being able to look "under the hood" - the US government's post-9/11 intelligence gathering, MSes history of tracking have people a bit wary now. Those are real, though hard to put dollar number on, concerns.

There are companies that offer support for OpenSource apps, they're not as big name as Linux itself, they tend to be smaller shops.

The other thing is that the switchover cost, at least as it currently looks, is a one time cost, vs. continuous costs (MS forced upgrades) albeit that are lower. The problem is you have to at some point bite the bullet. Things like Crossover are making this easier and a gradual conversion.

I'm not saying everything should be opensource, but things like WordProcessing make sense. It's a very mature app, fairly stable code base once you get to "modern" wordprocessing feature levels, and it's dangerous to have your important data locked in a proprietary format. If the Justice Department really wanted to make a dent in the MS Monopoly they would have forced MS to open up completely all past, present, and future Office formats. This would guarantee compatibility with competing apps, and MS would have to compete on features, not on lock-in. it would also ensure people could read and write their old Office files and not have to upgrade. It would be pretty ironic if outside apps had better support for MS's old formats than Word does.

Re:So Billy Boy couldn't bully the Indians...

[_Sprocket_]

What would a total cost analysis show? Would the cost of administration, customization, training, support, and finding the necessary applications cancel any benefits of not buying licenses?

India hardly suffers from a shortage of labor. The labor charge for administration and customization will be trivial compared to any licensing. Finding necessary applications won't be much of a problem unless they have a very niche requirement - and even then, a Linux infrastructure will likely work well for most of the environment.

And finally - training and support. You forget that India is growing their IT industry (and fighting brain-drain to some extent). Training is the entire point of the operation. Support exists in abundance with proper training (those stumped by "RTFM" forget that one either has to do some basic footwork oneself or pay for the expertise).

Open Source solutions won't always be the answer. But it will be more and more often. It all depends on the specifics of one's needs - what is being sought. India is wise to not allow a single corporate interest to dictate their search.

Re:So Billy Boy couldn't bully the Indians...

[Stumbles]

How many times have I heard the "proprietary software" has a support package........geeesh. What a red herring that argument is.

About all those packages get you is the previlage of is supporting their what is supposed to be final version of whatever piece of crap it is.

How many times have I sat on the phone from one of these support packages, only to have them tell me;

1. Uninstall/reinstall the application.

2. Do the same for (insert one of your choice) driver.

3. (My favorite), restart the machine.

4. Blame it on Win(name your version).

For the big bucks companies pay for this supposed great support the MS arena likes to tout that is a pretty piss poor support. What? You think a company is gonna go right out and fix your problem, them recompile their application just for you? HAAH! Oh, on the very odd occassion there might be someone that will but it does not happen very often.

No, for the most part you have to wait for that "we've gottem a lot of reports about this bug" event horizon before a software company will take any kind of real action. At least in the open source/GPL world. I gotta problem, the odds are real high of finding someone that has an answer and HOW TO FIX IT without waiting for some company to deam my problem important enough.

Re:So Billy Boy couldn't bully the Indians...

[Anonymous Coward]

I did technical phone support. I didn't know hardly anything about the operating systems or the products, compared to a developer or sys admin. The type of answers I had to give were that their computer, its BIOS, or the OS was causing the problems that prevented them from using their hardware. And I was a competent technician. I can't imagine how anyone can expect to get good technical support at the price these companies are willing to pay their technicians. $10 an hour in my case with a $1 raise in 6 months.

Re:So Billy Boy couldn't bully the Indians...

[Anonymous Coward]

In India,as in much of Asia, both are free. Windows ( with office) as well as linux. MS dare not put pressure on piracy except with the big players. atleast not yet.

Re:So Billy Boy couldn't bully the Indians...

[ortholattice]

It would be pretty ironic if outside apps had better support for MS's old formats than Word does.

A few years ago I had several corrupted Word '97 docs. When I opened them in Word on Win95, Word would immediately freeze or crash with an "illegal instruction" dump, or even corrupt the OS leading to the inevitable BSOD. But in the pre-Sun StarOffice the .doc's would open perfectly, with helpful red error messages showing exactly where the corruption was, and the rest of the content was easily salvaged.

One thing that really PO'ed me at the time was that when Word '97 docs were opened with older Word versions (I forget which, but certainly the previous Mac version), there wasn't even an error message saying you had to upgrade or something. Either you'd see garbage on the screen or Word would freeze/crash. The shoddiness of such a design was just appalling. It was a painful transition until everyone was up to '97.

One thing I never understood is why exploits to take advantage of such behavior never caught on with the script kiddies. I guess macro viruses were just too easy, so why bother.

Re:So Billy Boy couldn't bully the Indians...

[oliverthered]

I would agree wit hte support issues, the other day somone asked where the Linux USB documentation was (for writing a driver).
They got the answer, in the kernel tree.

Or, documentation, well look at some of the code comments, we just tend to hack stuff out.

great master plan, no wander USB is ummmm a bit well lets say ummm buggy on linux.

XFree86 is just as bad, can you tell me what's in the next X release, there's even an alpha to download but can't find anything that tells me whats in it.

etc............

It's very important, when you don't get corporate support that you know what you've got and what the changes are, so that you can support yourself or others.

Re:So Billy Boy couldn't bully the Indians...

[Anonymous Coward]

... in his recent visit to india ("philanthropical visit" ! ) he enquired about few state governments moves towards linux...

Re:So Billy Boy couldn't bully the Indians...

[Felinoid]

I am a zellot. I think Windows is plastic toy tools.. Windows NT is 'real working' kids tools (had a set as a kid and I could actually build stuff with them).
But there is quite a road Linux must travle before the mass market user could use it with out hassle.

On the TCO one problem is that version to version compatability is poor with Windows. Win 64, 32,16 and Dos are all slightly diffrent.
As such users are forced to dump old applications and hardware for no reason other than it dosen't work with the latest version of Windows.
If someone sereously went at it Wine could support the full api for every version of Windows.
This would make a switch to Linux an easy way to avoid having to buy new software. But for now Linux dose not have that ability.

server room

[Anonymous Coward]

How big of a tee-pee will the Indians need for their server room?

Re:server room

[Anonymous Coward]

wrong INDIANS.
The tee pees belong to the plains native americans
The article is about the dudes who put up the
Taj Mahal.
Different continent.
Don't feel to bad ,Columbus got fooled also.

Re:server room

[Anonymous Coward]

This is funny like a kick in the crotch.

Gubmint sponsored call centers?

[snarkasaurus]

"Interestingly, India's plan calls for government-sponsored support and call centers."

Oh joy! Another place to be put on eternity hold.

Any word if they plan on suporting the entire world or just the users in the Indian government?

Re:Gubmint sponsored call centers?

[thelexx]

This may actually be a really worthwhile thing. They should put meditation training in the call hold system so you can get enlightened while you wait. Or, in fact, get any enlightenment at all if their tech support is like most.

Re:Gubmint sponsored call centers?

[fucksl4shd0t]

Any word if they plan on suporting the entire world or just the users in the Indian government?

A successful application of the Golden Rule states that they should support the entire world.

worlds largest linux market

[binary tr011]

This is a great thing since india has a great tech industry and will allow them to develop linux aplications.

a little offtopic

PS: it will also allow for a larger market share for linux to which is always a good thing.

You people are absolutely intriguing

[SteweyGriffin]

I really just can't seem to get enough of the Slashdot community's "vibe".

Would my car perform any better if I had the precise engineering details about how every little part worked? Of course not, because I don't have a Ph.D in mechanical engineering and don't study chemistry.

Linux isn't necessary inherently better just because the source code is widely available. As in the car analogy, most would prefer to buy Microsoft (Ford, Chrysler, Mercedes, etc.) rather than hacking up a Linux (junkyard car put together from spare parts that are widely available) distribution.

India is no different, and I strongly advise them to buy an already working package for a fair price rather than tinkering with projects that are 20% complete and may never be more than halfway finished.

Oh, and all you complaining about not having a job -- I think Microsoft and other American companies getting more business means that there'll be more jobs here on the homefront. Just a thought...I'm not economic genius, but it seems to make sense doesn't it?

Re:You people are absolutely intriguing

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't have a Ph.D in mechanical engineering and don't study chemistry.

Really??? Who would have guessed judging from the insighfulness of your comment.

Re:You people are absolutely intriguing

[Anonymous Coward]

India is no different, and I strongly advise them to buy an already working package for a fair price rather than tinkering with projects that are 20% complete and may never be more than halfway finished.

Yes, I'm sure the freakin' GOVERNMENT OF INDIA will come to slashdot and read your troll and COMPLETELY CHANGE THEIR MINDS.

I mean, BILL FUCKING GATES came to India and gave them free copies of Office to fight AIDS (or whatever, maybe he actually gave money this time), and THAT didn't change their minds, what the heck did YOU donate?

Re:You people are absolutely intriguing

[RealAlaskan]

Would my car perform any better if I had the precise engineering details about how every little part worked?

Yes, you do, and yes, it does.

You may not have those details to hand, but they are available to you. You may not want those details, but they are available to folks who are able to use them. That's why your fancy-schmancy modern car is significantly better than Grandpa's Model T.

... most would prefer to buy Microsoft (Ford, Chrysler, Mercedes, etc.) rather than hacking up a Linux (junkyard car ...

How about Microsoft (1950's Rolls Royce clone, with a trouble-prone Chevy engine) versus Linux (modern Subaru)?

... I think Microsoft and other American companies getting more business means that there'll be more jobs here on the homefront. Just a thought...I'm not economic genius ...

Right. You aren't. We can get jobs through trade with India. We don't have to sell them software to trade. Your conclusion may be obvious, but it is quite possibly wrong.

Re:You people are absolutely intriguing

[Lysol]

India is different! They have a lot of brain/man power over there. And they are still a very poor country. That will change tho, and when it does, would you rather them be pushing m$ or something free? It's not about performance or source code, it's completely about economics and control of ones own future and brain power.

Besides, not every country in the world can pay ridiculous license fees for shotty software just to make a few people in some other country richer. Argh, ya know, instead of bitching about other countries, people should go there and check it out first hand. You'll see things in a completely different light and probably realize the whole high-priced, disposable 'american way' can't fly everywhere. jeeze, this is so obvious!

As far as complaing about jobs, sorry man (really!), but remember, those of you lower on the ladder were sacraficed for those higher up. How many bosses took pay cuts or forfeited their vacation so you could stay on board? Absolutely none! So before you go complaing about those bad immigrants or bad people in other countries taking your jobs just remember, someone had to make that decision here at home. And it was your ex-boss/superstar management team.
We won't have to worry about a terrorist attack or the like ruining our economy because we're doing it to ourselves. Give the middle guy a decent wage and get some creative management not selling their souls for the all mighty dollar and we'll go far. Of course, this is completely unrealistic today, but hey, some of us still have to keep thinking ahead..

Re:You people are absolutely intriguing

[0x0d0a]

Would my car perform any better if I had the precise engineering details about how every little part worked? Of course not, because I don't have a Ph.D in mechanical engineering and don't study chemistry.

No, but didja ever think that *maybe* chemists out there might want to put their own ideas and improvements into practice?

And unlike the auto world, in the computer world it's *very* easy to propogate one person's improvements around to everyone.

Linux isn't necessary inherently better just because the source code is widely available.

It's certainly an edge, though it doesn't make it better-regardless-of-other-factors.

The fact that it's also free-as-in-beer is a pretty big incentive, though.

India is no different, and I strongly advise them to buy an already working package for a fair price rather than tinkering with projects that are 20% complete and may never be more than halfway finished.

There are plenty of commercial programs that I don't consider particularly finished, and there are plenty of open-source programs that are finished.

Most stuff that you get when you download a Red Hat ISO is pretty solid stuff. Sure, you can get at CVS to a bunch of projects if you'd like to as well.

Oh, and all you complaining about not having a job -- I think Microsoft and other American companies getting more business means that there'll be more jobs here on the homefront. Just a thought...I'm not economic genius, but it seems to make sense doesn't it?

Keeping jobs in an environment where American workers are demanding obscene pay and benefits and aren't providing equivalently better performance is always going to be an issue. That's an unstable system that's going to break sooner or later. The only solution is for US workers to reduce their demands and take advantage of the benefits their government offers them. Are they drinking beer and watching football on the weekends, or studying a book from our free library system?

Re:You people are absolutely intriguing

[leerpm]

"India is no different, and I strongly advise them to buy an already working package for a fair price rather than tinkering with projects that are 20% complete and may never be more than halfway finished."

What is this elvish spell that decieves my eyes? I believe the terms "working package for fair prices" and Microsoft software are pretty much mutually exclusive :)

Re:You people are absolutely intriguing

[Stephen VanDahm]

"Would my car perform any better if I had the precise engineering details about how every little part worked? Of course not, because I don't have a Ph.D in mechanical engineering and don't study chemistry."

What the hell are you talking about? OK, I know that most home users don't have the expertise to modify source code, but any big organization like a government or a company will have access to experts that know UNIX and C -- these people have the skill to squeeze more utility out of a piece of software by modifying the source. The only relevant issue is whether it is necessary (or cost effective) to do that. While each case is probably different, I'm sure that any sufficiently large organization is going to need at least some custom-written software. So there is no "already working package".

"Oh, and all you complaining about not having a job -- I think Microsoft and other American companies getting more business means that there'll be more jobs here on the homefront. Just a thought...I'm not economic genius, but it seems to make sense doesn't it?"

Actually, I think that India's decision won't affect the US economy either way. The fact that they are using Linux doesn't mean that they won't want to buy proprietary software to run on Linux. I've never seen a company or a government go 100% open-source. Really, the only American company that stands to lose anything is Microsoft. I don't see how Microsoft's profits can seriously affect the national economy -- where I live, for instance, the economy doesn't seem to be affected by the tech sector at all.

Steve

Re:You people are absolutely intriguing

[the eric conspiracy]

The only solution is for US workers to reduce their demands

Won't happen. Americans will find something else to do that pays better money.

Re:You people are absolutely intriguing

[ninewands]

India is different! They have a lot of brain/man power over there.

Thrue. Idia is probably the only fully-functioning democratic country between Australia and Israel and it owes it's ability to function to the existence of a fairly effective public education system and the highly entrepreneurial spirit of it's people.

And they are still a very poor country.

Unfortunately, this is true for two reasons.

• First, India is, historically, a poor country because the Hindu religion emphasizes spiritual gain over material gain. This has allowed India's non-Hindu rulers over the past several centuries (first the Moguls, then the British) to exploit the "lower-classes" for their own benefit. The caste system in Indian society also contributed to this problem.
• Second, following India's attainment of independence from Britain, the government adopted a very socialist-oriented system of central planning and control that led to massive corruption, capital flight and near-zero foreign investment.

India has GREAT potential to become an economic powerhouse rivalling, maybe even exceeding, the US, the EU and Japan if they stay on their current path.

Re: You people are absolutely intriguing

[Black Parrot]

> India is probably the only fully-functioning democratic country between Australia and Israel

Which way around?

Re:You people are absolutely intriguing

[ONOIML8]

"Would my car perform any better if I had the precise engineering details about how every little part worked?

Yes, you do, and yes, it does."

Oh really? Could you please tell us all how to access that? My car is a 1996 and to this day the only place I can get plugs and MAP sensors for it is Ford. The major aftermarket suppliers have told me that's because Ford hasn't released the data.

Speaking of data, the computers seem to be closed devices as well. I would love to have all of the engineering details about them and the source code. In my case, working on public safety vehicles, I could modify those (especially the body control module) to make the vehicle more safe for the operator to do their job.

You guys need to find another industry for an example. The automotive industry is what Microsoft uses as an EXAMPLE, both in engineering and business practices.

Re:You people are absolutely intriguing

[samfreed]

India is probably the only fully-functioning democratic country between Australia and Israel

Israel, alas, is an apartheid state.

My Country, Israel, does not think that Humans have rights at all; like leaving their own front door.

I personally am lucky on that front, I only got arrested three times, and my home was searched, for making minor protests like waving a pirate flag on my own balcony.

Mono making it easier to pick Linux?

[smd4985]

Not that I hope .NET gains much traction, but if it does I think the Mono project is a real godsend.

Since .NET is mainly an API and MS seems to be supporting alternate but conforming .NET implementations, the Mono project is another reason to use Linux. If applications start using .NET in the future a government won't be at a disadvantage pushing/using Linux.

Re:Mono making it easier to pick Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mono is a cancer. But we can count on MS to squash it eventually, so who cares?

good for the economy

[Rambo, John J.]

This is good for the economy.

A mammoth country like India is the first spark, pretty soon after other parts of the world follows, the tech support business model will take off.

Three steps to profit

[RealAlaskan]

Governments should:

1) Talk up linux.
2) When Bill and Melinda offer money, make nice.
3) Adopt Linux, and watch your people PROFIT.
4) Watch their tax recipts rise.

Whoops, that was 4 steps. Well, government projects usually go over budget.

but .. but ..

[Anonymous Coward]

But Linux is licensed under the GPL! The GPL was written by Richard Stallman! RICHARD STALLMAN, people!

My God, don't these people know what they're doing? The GPL isn't really "free"! RMS is very annoying! You can't make money with Linux! India's computer businesses will GO BANKRUPT!

This must be stopped now! Otherwise, people might read the GPL and actually believe that crap about freedom! Quick, Bill Gates, wonderful capitalist, get in there and teach these guys about the real freedom of Windows!

Re:but .. but ..

[Anonymous Coward]

Shit, I almost forgot, when you use the GPL, you have to rename your country GNU/India! I swear, that's what it says in the GPL!

Re:but .. but ..

[Ziest]

But Linux is licensed under the GPL! The GPL was written by Richard Stallman! RICHARD STALLMAN, people!

My God, don't these people know what they're doing? The GPL isn't really "free"! RMS is very annoying!

Yea, Richard is very annoying but he has done to advance Computer Science than you have

Re:but .. but ..

[Anonymous Coward]

Good think about RMS is, he is a bearded, filthy, fat-ass. Much like 90% of Indian men. So he'll make a PERFECT representative for the Free Software movement in India! Go RMS!

'Looks like they've really thought this through'

[Anonymous Coward]

good job, not like they've got the nuke or anything.
Where do all these thinking people come from.

thats all very well but...

[guest12]

they are focussed on the cost aspect "inexpensive beer" not the "free as in speech". A few tech savvy individuals dont represent the bulk of bored civil servants and decision makers. They just want to stretch a rupee further.

Re:thats all very well but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Go there once or twice and see the Business and Government decision making setting in the Tech industry. You'll be surprised how sophosticated and educated the decision makers are. The other areas of their industry and government can learn a lot from their own Tech industry.

Re:thats all very well but...

[m1a1]

they are focussed on the cost aspect "inexpensive beer" not the "free as in speech". A few tech savvy individuals dont represent the bulk of bored civil servants and decision makers. They just want to stretch a rupee further.

And that is a bad thing? When I first started mucking around with linux one of the first things I thought was (and I mean this): "If I were in charge of tech for a company I could save them thousands of dollars with this." That was truly my initial reaction and it stands true. It is one of linux's finest points. I have heard all of the arguments about TCO and they don't hold up. Why? Things such as "Linux support will be more expensive" get thrown in there every time. Maybe now, but that concept doesn't scale. Once you get the whole company on linux people will learn to use it. Support will be less of an issue. Besides, if I am providing the support, I would rather that cash go to myself than MS anyways. Linux is good for me.

As a side note, often MORE techies are needed to support windows, so it is well worth it to pay a *nix admin a bit more and sacrifice an MS junky or two.

Re:thats all very well but...

[Anonymous Coward]

You'll also be surprised at how corrupt they are. All problems in the U.S. are ten-fold in India. People just don't care. They'll spill industrial waste anywhere, they just don't give a rats ass. They'll exploit their own people, they've been doing it for centuries.

Crap joke warning

[oliverthered]

No windows, no gates, apache inside.

Re:Crap joke warning

[Anonymous Coward]

Made extra-funny since Apache's are INDIANS! (well, not really, but there's some humour there [okay, not much]).

Re:Crap joke warning

[Anonymous Coward]

umm.... that was the joke.
They are Indians (so are Apache's) but a different kind.

The old joke was, why is linux like a TeePe......

MS is poised to dominate the Linux market...

[gatkinso]

...do you really think that Office, Explorer, Visual Studio, Visual Basic, ect ect ect HASN'T been ported to Lunix?

Do you, really?

Do you really think that Gates hasn't put a kick ass team together that whipped up a marvelous distro that makes every distro out there today look like the random keyboard peckings of idiot children?

Please.

Bill G is has no constraints - be it capital, time, motivation, talent, ideas, or secretive Linux development.... the man has unlimited resources.

India will follow the rest of the world like the sheep they are... right into Bill G's wallet.

As far as India adopting Linux... atleast they are plagarizing decent code now.

Re:MS is poised to dominate the Linux market...

[Anonymous Coward]

Speculation is not reality. Irrespetive of that you or I think, the Linux "market" won't be like the MSwindows market. M$ can't control it without the addiction of the operating system. Think of what MS dominates that does NOT use their OS.

The rest of your comment is not worthy of a reply.

Re:MS is poised to dominate the Linux market...

[visualight]

If I was Bill Gates I'd make up a phony coporation to release the LinuxGaming Distro with full support for DX8.1. Then after it was the most popular distro out there I'd call a press conference and let everyone know it was really me. Of course I'd lose millions on the distro and place my own monopoly in serious danger but boy would it be funny (if I was Bill).

Re:MS is poised to dominate the Linux market...

[Stonent1]

If all of a sudden a billion Indian nationals begin using Linux over Windows... I see an office suite from MS within like a year.

Re:MS is poised to dominate the Linux market...

[Anonymous Coward]

If all of a sudden a billion Indian nationals begin using Linux over Windows... I see an office suite from MS within like a year.

Yes, this is very true. We will see pigs flying as well.

From:
http://www.censusindia.net/results/result smain.htm l

Persons 1,027,015,247

Re:MS is poised to dominate the Linux market...

[zootread]

Of course I'd lose millions on the distro and place my own monopoly in serious danger but boy would it be funny (if I was Bill).

Whatever floats your boat...

If I was Bill, I'd just hire a team of strippers to get me off whenever I needed. But that's just me.

Letter From The Indian Government

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear Microsoft:

Tank you, come again!

Sincerely,
Apu... no, no, I mean "The Indian Government"

Thanks!

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for contributing to the continued unemployment in the US. I only hope your plane takes a dive in to the ocean. Bastard.

Re:Thanks!

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, americans that are scared of competition. Guess it's only good when you're winning huh?

Re:Thanks!

[stevejsmith]

Yeah, because some high school dropout who will only now earn $20,000 per year needs the job more than a college educated Indian who can't find a job but is willing to work for the equivalent of $2,000 per year in order to feed is three-person family. That was sarcasm, in case you didn't notice.

Re:Thanks!

[cyborg_monkey]

No, that was not sarcasm, just fucking stupid. Like you. Because you suck.

p.s. loser.

p.p.s. stfu.

Re:Thanks!

[Anonymous Coward]

heh, haven't seen any lepers in the U.S. for a while and the water is safe to drink. who's really winning?

Re:Thanks!

[Anonymous Coward]

would you care to read up on those two and try again?

Re:Thanks!

[Anonymous Coward]

would you care to go and see for yourself? leave the tourist areas and see how filthy it really is.

Re:Thanks!

[Arconus]

I'm not sure what you are trying to convey with this sentence - racism (or anti-), humor, sarcasm, or just plain confusedness....

But $2000 per year in India is a number beyond the comprehension of US residents - it's probably the equivalent of $60000 p.a. in the US.

In short, you would be "rich".

Re:Thanks!

[stevejsmith]

I was trying to convey the fact that the Indians, many of whom are educated but can't find work to suit their education, need it more than the Americans who end up getting the jobs. And yes, that number was arbitrary, $200 per year would be a little more like it.

Re:Thanks!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, India is filthy as hell.

the indian govt wants to save money...

[Mark19960]

perhaps they want to spend their new found cash on nuclear weapons?
who knows...
remember, they are in a conflict with pakistan and they need to save money, and open source is the key to saving it.
linux, in my opinion will free the world of microsoft. but... I fear...
something will have to fill the void.
I just dont know who or what will. but lets hope its not worse than M$

Re:the indian govt wants to save money...

[Anonymous Coward]

Qué?

Re:the indian govt wants to save money...

[TheAntiCrust]

How much money are they saving really? By adopting linux they are also opening thier own tech support centers. Training and hiring those people costs money. They still have to develop (costs money) or buy software (Gee jolly gosh, this costs money too). Supporting linux might actually be a more expensive proposition then sticking with microsoft. I think they did it becuase they feel it is a better operating system. Save money in not needing new hardware maybe? I dont think money was a big factor in thier decision making.

Re: the indian govt wants to save money...

[Black Parrot]

> How much money are they saving really? By adopting linux they are also opening thier own tech support centers. Training and hiring those people costs money. They still have to develop (costs money) or buy software (Gee jolly gosh, this costs money too). Supporting linux might actually be a more expensive proposition then sticking with microsoft. I think they did it becuase they feel it is a better operating system. Save money in not needing new hardware maybe? I dont think money was a big factor in thier decision making.

Step back and ask yourself how much money will flow out of the country this way over the next 30 years vs how much would flow out if they didn't switch.

What India and others are doing is commonly called "opting out".

India and Linux

[Salubri]

There are quite a few things I'm seeing going on here that I do have to point out.

It has been voiced that India is foolish for going with open source which "at most will be half done" as opposed to Microsoft.

Think about this: India is a nuclear power, and they can hit major cities. Do we REALLY want a microsoft product running this? Think about it... this would bring entirely new meaning to the term blue screen of death.

Personally I see linux right now being stuck in this trap. They don't have the marketshare because there isn't the development, and they don't have the development because there is no marketshare. One of these things has to be fixed for the other one to be fixed. India is a HUGE populous. If this becomes the OS of choice over in India, it WILL lead to more development of Linux in general of which the entire linux community will benefit.

Re:India and Linux

[I'm a racist.]

Do you think they're really looking at using MS software for critical systems, such as missiles? I seriously doubt that. They'll probably go with some mature real-time control system (I don't know much about that market).

All the MS stuff they may use would probably go into administrative systems, the same as it does here. Sure, it may cause some problems, but if it gets the job done, it really isn't important. If the total cost to India is low enough, they'll use MS (which is the logical decision). By total cost, I'm including support over time.

Personal beliefs don't have much place in business decisions.

Re:India and Linux

[Salubri]

Do you think they're really looking at using MS software for critical systems... No. That part was a joke. I _AM_ a bit familiar with computers in expiremental labs enough to know this... well... at least enough to know that they don't use anything us normal people have access to.

As far as studies that compare TCO's between Microsoft and Linux, the only one's I've seen that place Microsoft on top are either Microsoft sponsored studies or by the occasional company that bends their knee and kisses the ring of the Gates. Are there others out there? Perhaps. I admit that the studies I'm talking about are only the ones I've seen. What do I know though?

In the computer labs I've visited, one trained unix admin can take on 200 systems, whereas MCSE's will handle about 20 - at most.

Now lets use this information to do a little hypothetical planning. Lets say, for the sake of arguement, that we're going to implement 1000 systems and that the standard wage for the Windows admin is 1 Economic unit (just a fake term for a yearly salary for a windows admin). At the rate of 1 admin to every 20 systems, this means that there will need to be 50 admins. Each earning 1 economic unit, the total expenditure for admins is 50 economical units. Now, if they went with linux/unix, they would only need 5 admins. Now, lets even account for the fact that unix guys earn... lets say 4x the salary of an MCSE, realize if Unix admins aren't paid nearly that much it only strengthens my arguement. 5 employees earning 4 economical units each is still only 20 economical units - a savings of 30 economical units. If Unix admins aren't paid that much more than MCSE's, then you save even more in budget.

It's not just the support over time, you also have to think about how many people would need to be hired to run things.

But now that I've ranted about ALL of this, realize that I don't know much about the TCO market, and the examples I've used to construct my arguements are based on trends I have observed and therefore could be inaccurate.

Frankly I disagree about Microsoft being the logical choice. With all the problems that people have with Microsoft and the control it weilds, I think the logical choice is choosing something that is stable and doesn't force you to pay out the nose every time you wish to upgrade software. But like you say... personal beliefs don't have much place in buisness decisions.

Re:India and Linux

[Spellbinder]

i don't think that is a "market"
btw but personal beliefs have a huge influence to business decisions and I am talking to a racist.. silly me

Re:India and Linux

[Wolfrider]

> In the computer labs I've visited, one trained unix admin can take on 200 systems, whereas MCSE's will handle about 20 - at most.

--Are you on crack? Would you *want* to have to handle 200 systems if they all went down at once??

--The economy is bad enough as it is - having a few more admins than the *absolute minimum* around, is a *good* thing.

Re:India and Linux

[Salubri]

The example I was using was using bare minimum statistics I admit, but the principle still remains the same: in those labs it took roughly 10 times as many people to handle the same number of windows machines as unix machines.

Is this true of all labs? It might not be but, just as I said before, based on my personal experience this has been the case.

Re:India and Linux

[Simon Brooke]

Are you on crack? Would you *want* to have to handle 200 systems if they all went down at once?

If all your servers go down at once you haven't done your job properly. Where's your UPS? Where's your backup generator? Where's your disaster recovery plan? So far the amount of unscheduled downtime on my servers in 2002 is 0 seconds. What's yours?

Re:India and Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

nuclear systems, running on windows?
You, sir, are an idiot.

Re:India and Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

No. That part was a joke. I _AM_ a bit familiar with computers in expiremental labs enough to know this... well... at least enough to know that they don't use anything us normal people have access to.

You haven't quite got the hang of this whole humor thing, have you? In order for something to be a joke, it has to be FUNNY.

The more you ramble on, the more you will expose yourself for the idiot you are.

Re:India and Linux

[Salubri]

My downtime is constantly plagued with the joys of beta-testing distros. :-) Then again, I don't really run servers on my boxes anymore.

Re:India and Linux

[Wolfrider]

--Hmm... Where's the budget for all this, again? :P

--Actually, I have UPS, and backup my machines at /home. Work is another story, since I'm not really in IT anymore. My point was, that the economy is bad enough without scaling BACK on the current number of employed sysadmins.

--Even if the proper procedures are in place, nobody wants to go in after the (hypothetical) massive 48-hour weekend power outage and turn on 200 servers by themselves, and then stick around to make sure they all come up Ok. If Bad Shiznit happens, it's always handy to have a few buddies at your side to help with the recovery.

but..

[sgups]

But if anything my own experience of living there tells me, nothing will come of this move for another 20 years and by that time the MS flag will be flying higher than the stars and stripes.

Only Two Posts and I get a death threat! Cool!

[robb0995]

Oh come now, surely there was a day or two of economics even in your seemingly limited education.

Perhaps if they started calling it an "Open Source" economy, people wouldn't be so quick to defend jingoistic positions that inefficiently allocate labor.

IN SOVIET RUSSIA

[blackgasmask]

the government takes precise wide-reaching steps to usher in YOU!!

I am unsure

[Anonymous Coward]

With what other sexual diseases BillG can help India now ?

Bill G. is no longer in charge of M$

[SHEENmaster]

He just has enough money of his own to personally buy every member of congress, the supreme court, and even the president.

With that kind of money, you don't need to adopt the best OS around.

The Indian Government allows

[Anonymous Coward]

SPAMMERS with out regard to the rest of us! Fuck those assholes!!!!!! Figure it out Slash dotters! Block the whole area! The new niggers! Kill them all!

Re:The Indian Government allows

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a dream, oh never mind

Re:The Indian Government allows

[vijay-slashdot]

People..either you are not Indian or haven't heard of the term 'red tape'. No. Am not talking of the famous shoe brand, but am referring to the full time job of n number of bureaucrats and illiterate politicians who are the decision makers. They see only $$ and as you know M$ has already 'donated' some. Don't call me skeptical. Am tell ground reality. Visit any 'computerized' and 'modern' govt. office. You will get an impressive set of software and hardware which the market stopped used a decade back. And guess what..they were 'installed/developed' just than few months back. Seeing all those govt. officials attending foxpro, DB2, WordStar trainings make me sick ...and the only reason they signed for the training in the first place is the salary hike and a free ride to the state capitals(where else can such obsolete softwares taught??). Only hope people at the top like Mahajan(IT minister), Karnik(NASSCOM president) have some sense and strength to overcome these babus.

Source citation

[MongooseCN]

India sure seems to be a highly contested arena lately.

Does anyone else find it funny that Slashdot, a site with <sarcasm> model journalistic integrity</sarcasm> I might add, always sites itself?

Re:Source citation

[mixmasta]

that's cite.

Re:Source citation

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone else find it funny that Slashdot, a site with model journalistic integrity I might add, always sites itself?

"Cites", please.

Re:Source citation

[SwedishChef]

Slashdot citations are references to other news sources anyway, so why shouldn't they just give one and let us follow the links from there?

Re:Source citation

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's nice of them to use their own bandwidth, instead sending millions of geeks at someone else's.

Re:Source citation

[Anonymous Coward]

National Geographic does this all the time.

Jesus

[Anonymous Coward]

True Christan® Friends,

How glorious! Soon we will all fall down and worship our Savior on His birthday, and help President Bush improve the economy by running up our credit cards buying gifts for True Christians. Glory! Anyone who does not go into massive debt this CHRISTmas season is a Saddam-loving traitor.

Speaking of traitors, did you hear about those damned, unsaved Canadians in our 51st state, saying that our God-ordained President was a "moron?" Damn them to Hell! Everyone knows Bush is NOT a moron! He is a True Christian who will soon have everyone in the whole world on their knees for JESUS. Bush has made history by having a midterm election that almost magically gave our government over to the Republicans. Praise God for that! Everyone all around the world loves BUSH! And the libruls are in the minority! True Christians turned out at the polls last month to make sure Bush got the legitimacy he was denied when Al Gore won the evil, librul, secular "popular vote" in 2000. God even helped Bush's brother Jeb beat out all the unsaved Jews to win in Florida! Surely this is the most ethical administration in history, especially now that Poindexter and Kissinger are out of the mothballs and back in action and protecting the American way of life! Now our Godly President is punishing the libruls almost as much as Jesus will. Praise! Truly we're going back to the honesty and integrity of our greatest President, Reagan!

Folks, happy days are here again! Bush is making sure we keep American traditions alive. Soon this nation will be living in the 1950s again, when things were good for everyone, and nice folks didn't even talk about negroes, Jews, homosexurals or America-hating libruls, because they were all out of sight. Happy days are indeed here again! Traditional values are back in style, and True Christians are leading the way with love, sweet love! Folks, there's NOTHING like Christian Love in action!

Folks, JESUS is everywhere, and He is making sure the libruls feel His wrath! He even sent angels to a strip club to chase away the libruls. And He is continually stopping Satan by destroying the evil Harry Potter! Truly, He is doing His work, all by Himself, all over the world. (But He still needs money, so send it in NOW!) Folks, if we're going to stop the terrorists, God needs your money now more than ever! HE is watching you!

In Christian Love,

Judy

PS: I'll see you and your children in CHURCH on Sunday!

Re:Jesus

[0x0d0a]

That's funny because it's true.

probably just more curry.

[Anonymous Coward]

given the stench of most university CS departments.

Bill!, prove your altruism

[Anonymous Coward]

This is really a chance for Bill to prove whatever he has done is genuinely of altruistic nature. Go Billy boy ... send some more money to india!

IN SOVIET RUSSIA

[blackgasmask]

YOU would be absolutely intriguing!!

India reads the writing on the wall...

[CashCarSTAR]

Within 10 years Linux or one of its offshoots will be the primary OS used on desktop and server computers world-wide. India is looking towards placing themselves in a very advantageous position in this new IT world.

Same thing as anybody with any sort of intelligence has their eye on things such as alternative sources of energy..

Re:India reads the writing on the wall...

[Anonymous Coward]

No.

In ten years people will be using the same thing they use now, Windows.

It is easier to "update" then to "switch" when we are talking about the average user. The only way "Linux will take over the world" is if it suddenly meets the following requirements:

1. Easy to use
2. Cheap
3. Fast GUI
4. Pre-sold on Dell/Gateway/HP etc.
5. MS compatible

Servers, probably 5 years and they will own the smaller server market. Big iron and mainframes will still be unchanged, and for good reason.

For those of you that say the above #'s 1,2, & 3 already exist; I say... nope.

1. Drivers...USB...which FS are we using again?
2. Not if you include tech support (think small 10-20 person company that only has 1 tech guy/gal)
3. Gnome/KDE are big, slow, ugly and convoluted (hence RH 8.0)
4. Not yet (Dell did, but no more)
5. Not yet, but trying... badly.

American companies have finally started to use computers in a semi-intelligent manner. They are not going to up and change everything because it "saves money." Most places get to a set-up that works (win98, office 2000, P3 400MHz), and stay there.

Re:India reads the writing on the wall...

[CashCarSTAR]

I actually don't think 1 2 and 3 exist at this point.

However, I do think that they will be there in the near future. Linux is going to eventually hit "critical mass" where the masses actually ask for it. It is improving in leaps and bounds.

I do agree that over the next 2-3 years there won't be any change for the exact reasons given, especially in companies. People are happy with the equipment they have...for now..(although I'd argue that it's win2k, not win98 that is the standard). The question comes into play when Microsoft finally completes the plan to force users into yearly subscription licensing that the switchover will be made. That's what Paladium and all that is all about. Mind you..it is a horrible business decision, but I think that MS, like most large companies become blinded by ego.

Re:India reads the writing on the wall...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope, it just wont happen. Microsoft will be majority for at least 10 more years.

Re:India reads the writing on the wall...

[zootread]

1. Easy to use
Already is. (subjective, I know)
2. Cheap
Already is. (you save in tech support once everything is nicely setup and never gives you problems, unlike a Windows machine)
3. Fast GUI
Already is. Gnome/KDE aren't the only choices.
4. Pre-sold on Dell/Gateway/HP etc.
Already is for servers.
5. MS compatible
Already is pretty close. But why would you need MS compatibility once the whole world is using Linux?

I think you make a good point on #4, though. What is needed for greater Linux acceptance is a big system builder to sell machines that have Linux preinstalled and use compatible well-supported hardware, something that "just works" out-of-box. And then we get into the old cliched chicken and the egg problem. Users won't use Linux because it doesn't have the support of hardware/software manuafacters. Hardware/software manuafacters won't support Linux because there aren't enough users. This is something that I've seen slowly changing, and now the growth is exponential. I think 10 years is a reasonable estimate as to when it will hit mainstream. Windows may be popular in the United States, but this is not necessarilly the case in other countries. It may not happen in the U.S. first, but I predict Linux or something similar or derived from it will supersede Windows.

Ah, yes

[0x0d0a]

Your rant sounds much like the idiotic xenophobia and hyper-nationalism present in Germany that let Hitler come to power.

No one, including the United States, can just close their doors and shut out the outside world. And the outside world is willing to work without also requiring wages that purchase an HDTV, SUV, high-end computer, and two-story house.

US developers still have benefits over Indian ones. They're closer, easier to communicate with.

So you just have to leverage that.

Which means maybe eating plainer foods, not eating out at restauraunts, driving a used car, not upgrading your home theater and computer yearly, not going on cruises, and not goofing off at work. Not buying pills for minor things like depression. Not owning a second car. Becaue the competition is willing to do this and more. So you can evolve...or die.

Re:Ah, yes

[(H)elix1]

US developers still have benefits over Indian ones. They're closer, easier to communicate with.

This is a very big deal. In order to use a remote team - in this case off shore developers - the business users have to actually document what they want and get it right the first time out. Solid requirements... I've seen this type of development succeed only a handful of times, most projects produce something between what they asked for (not to be confused with what they wanted) to catastrophic failure. Come to think of it, it has been a while for requirements too. Anyhow, the short of it is most business users will rather pay US rates so they don't have to do the groundwork required to move stuff over seas. Not to say they don't give it a try once or twice first...

One of my favorites was working with a business user who thought they needed complete creative latitude / absolute control. We went round and round about address and phone number validation. What is valid? (555) 555-1234, SOMENUMBER (alpha characters that map to digits), or extensions? A few months later the call came in on how to handle the UK customer's phone number.

Re:Ah, yes

[Anonymous Coward]

US developers still have benefits over Indian ones. They're closer, easier to communicate with.

This is a very big deal. In order to use a remote team - in this case off shore developers - the business users have to actually document what they want and get it right the first time out. Solid requirements...

How exactly does hiring a US-based team obviate the need for harc-core requirements definition? Will the US team work for free if the customer's requirements specification was screwed up?

Re:Ah, yes

[chamenos]

how is the parent post a troll? this is one of the most insightful posts i've read in a while. perhaps it hits the truth too closely for some US-centric moderator to stomach. sheesh....grow up and quit whining. the fact is that the US is quickly losing its competitive edge due to widespread affluence which has bred arrogance and complacency.

Re:Ah, yes

[miu]

How exactly does hiring a US-based team obviate the need for harc-core requirements definition? Will the US team work for free if the customer's requirements specification was screwed up?

Most projects with any real scope miss tons of requirements. This means that the team and customer have to negotiate date or feature slips. Much harder to do if the two cannot meet face to face.

Re:Ah, yes

[rela]

Not buying pills for minor things like depression.

Excuse you, but Clinical Depression is not just 'the blues', or feeling a little sad because your boss yelled at you, etc etc. It's a real disease, and sometimes pills are one of the only, if not the only, treatments with any reasonable degree of effectiveness.

So next time you go to sarcastically express your class envy, please leave people with mental illnesses out of it, or at least take your dark-ages mentality ("Minor things like depression") about it and find the most convient of your body orifices to stuff it in. Thanks.

Re:Ah, yes

[zootread]

Which means maybe eating plainer foods, not eating out at restauraunts, driving a used car, not upgrading your home theater and computer yearly, not going on cruises, and not goofing off at work. Not buying pills for minor things like depression. Not owning a second car. Becaue the competition is willing to do this and more. So you can evolve...or die.

Right on man. I do all of these things you mention. I am a cheap bastard. Add to this I am developer living in the United States and am overpaid. Which basically means I've got a huge cashpile. I can one day move to India (I have family there), build a huge palace for myself with servants and all, and retire comfortably. I've seen it done by many others.

Re:Ah, yes

[Anonymous Coward]

Boo-fuckatity hoo. I was clinically depressed myself. Every second was spent thinking about how I was going to end my life. Every second was maddening pain. I didn't resolve this using pills that just supress it (I didn't touch the stuff). I resolved it by addressing it for what it was: a condition caused by the mind. Chemicals need not be involved.

Granted there are some maniacs out there that should be either locked up or put on medication, so they don't go around carving peoples' eyes out with a corckscrew.

This could be good for Linux...

[Squidgee]

As India seems to be a hotbed for talneted coders. Maybe Linux will gain a whole horde of talented contributers?

We can only hope.

Re:This could be good for Linux...

[Anonymous Coward]

Talented coders PLEASE do not make me laugh what was the last or for that matter first program that was written (semi exclusively) by Indian programmers. Hmmm I am waiting.... I'm still waiting.

I admit that the big M$ corporation has a stranglehold on innovatio but a country with a 20-30 percentage of population could come up with somthing.

The same goes for china just because you have billions of coders (willing to work cheep) doesen't mean you are the greatest thing since slice bread.

As they say in Missouri don't tell me .... show me.

Weird News!

[Apreche]

That's really weird, considering. Until now I figured that in India Microsoft had even more dominance than it does in the US. I mean on campus just about everyone uses AIM/ICQ, clients range from the "real" ones to gAIM to Trillian, but the service is the same. But it seems that all the students from India use MSN messenger. And this isn't an exxageration, all of them use it and nobody else does. Just go to the library and walk around the lab and you'll see. So linux in India seems real real weird.

Re:Weird News!

[TheAntiCrust]

Maybe its thier elitest nature that would make them want to use a diffrent IM app?

offtopic: I say we all go back to the old ICQ =/

Re:Weird News!

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because you don't have M$ on the desktop doesn't mean you can't IM people. Trillion, Everybuddy. Same app, Different OS

Re:Weird News!

[Zontar The Mindless]

That's odd, out of my dozen or so IM contacts in India, all use ICQ or Y!IM (or something that's compatible with one or the other) except one who uses MSN. And he's the only one who isn't a developer. He's employed as a manager by a UK firm that's "standardised" on MS, and isn't allowed to use anything else on the job.

Re:Weird News!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, so I'm not the only one who noticed that Indians are elitists? They think their race is sooo much better than all the others. My parents are Indian, I'm an American. They live here in the states and they're all like "these lousy Americans." They're always ragging on Americans and any race that isn't Indian. Fuck them. And they want me to marry an Indian. Fuck that. I need a woman who'll be a whore in bed, not some backwards-ass bitch who doesn't want to work and doesn't know how to fuck.

They think they're so much better. You go to India, they're all alcoholics, they're swimming in their own feces, its a trashpile, they don't care about their own people. They inbreed as much as possible (e.g. caste system). Fuck them. They fuck themselves over. Prostition is huge there. What happen to Indian values? Oh, American girls are sluts and like to have sex, oh their so bad they cheat on you and divorce you etc. Well, Indian girls are whores who carry around their babies on the streets in the hopes that it will help them panhandle a little better. HIV spreads in India because bored Indian housewifes are fucking younger guys (this was according to an Indian American infectious disease doctor I know who specializes in HIV).

The good things that came out of India, such as yoga, aren't even common in India. You go there, no Indians are doing yoga. They swear their better and smarter, but they're just scum like everyone else. Not all of them are like this, but the vast majority of them are. It gets worse when they move here to the states, make a bunch of money, and then put down this country and its people.

oh really?

[ArchieBunker]

More like no thank you. God when someone doesn't buy MS you act like its a huge act of defiance. Grow the fuck up will you? I give this thing about 18 months before it collapses.

Re: I don't normally respond to trolls but..

[leerpm]

Here's a piece of advice for you to hopefully follow:

Please don't procreate :)

Heh..

[NanoGator]

"System Shutdown Completed: Thank you, come again!"

Hehe

[Anonymous Coward]

This one is actually good!

Indian Government Moves to Let Linux In

[Anonvmous Coward]

"Indian Government Moves to Let Linux In"

Wow.. never thought I'd see the day where Linux replaces an entire governing body. That should make for an interesting deomcracy. Everybody can write their own laws!

Re: Indian Government Moves to Let Linux In

[Dunark]

The loss of sales in India is going to be the least of Microsoft's problems. Imagine what's going to happen when all the new Linux expertise from India goes looking for jobs in other countries. Microsoft's argument about Linux being more expensive to operate is going to go down the flusher very fast.

Does this mean that Dell will support Linux?

[BroadbandBradley]

they already farm out thier tech-support lines to India. Perhaps MS knowledge will become scarce in India and they'll have to move the call center back to the US.

Right on India, smart move. Here's to hoping the US government won't be the last to migrate over to common sense.

Re:Does this mean that Dell will support Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean bomb India for using software that was made by hackers? Clearly terrorists all of them!

Re:Does this mean that Dell will support Linux?

[Radical Rad]

Right on India, smart move. Here's to hoping the US government won't be the last to migrate over to common sense.

Oh, silly foreigners are always doing crazy stuff like this. How about that flash-in-the-pan metric system! [snicker] It'll never last. And right now my outdoor thermometer says 25 degrees and damn is it cold out there... just like it's supposed to be. ;)

Best Thing The Gov Has Done in 2002

[inquisitive]

In India, labour is cheap. You can hire fairly good prog/sys adm for 1/4th-1/8th the cost of a moderately good American. Linux will help the small businesses, and provide more opportunities to folks (like me) who plan to enter the SMB market with Linux/FOSS consultancy services. (OK, currently I am outside India)

Considering the fact that US Gov/MS have a penchant for interfering, trying to strongarm anyone (including democracies), the less dependent we are on US tech, better for us.

The biggest gains from going F/OSS should happen in the Military, Edu and SMB areas, that's my guess.

BTW, stop trashing India folks. Yoga, decimal system, astronomy, Ayurveda (nature medicine), Meditation, Buddhism, Karate, Sanskrit etc originated in India. Do you westerners ever consider that? All that is FREE! No Patents, No Copyrights.

Re:Best Thing The Gov Has Done in 2002

[Anonymous Coward]

You can hire fairly good prog/sys adm for 1/4th-1/8th the cost of a moderately good American.

And they're worth almost what you pay for them...

Re:Best Thing The Gov Has Done in 2002

[inode_buddha]

Thank you for saying that. As a matter of fact, I am aware of these things.

Re:Best Thing The Gov Has Done in 2002

[TheHorror!TheHorror!]

Just because you pay a lot for something doesn't mean that thing is good.... I thought that was the argument against M$ anyway...

Re:Best Thing The Gov Has Done in 2002

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget there's lot more to the Indians than you mentioned here. What about Kamasutra, Vedic Astrology, and Tantric Sex?

Re:Best Thing The Gov Has Done in 2002

[Anonymous Coward]

Except for karate, of course. It was created by the people in Okinawa.

Re:Best Thing The Gov Has Done in 2002

[anactofgod]

Ah, strictly speaking, you are right about karate's development into a distinct form occuring in Okinawa, but the poster was correct, too. In fact, if a clam is to be made that the poster was in error, it would have to be for limiting the claim to include *just* karate, because most of the asian martial arts (including karate) trace their geneologies to "kung fu", and the foundation of kung fu was established by a Indian Buddist monk (Bodhidharma, "Ta Mo" in Chinese or "Daruma" in Japanese) on pilgrimage to China, in the very same Shaolin monastary that was founded by a previous Indian Buddist monk (Ba Tuo)several decades previously.

Links with additional/supporting information are here (for information on the Shaolin/kung fu) and here (for info on karate).

Re:Best Thing The Gov Has Done in 2002

[zootread]

Yoga, decimal system, astronomy, Ayurveda (nature medicine), Meditation, Buddhism, Karate, Sanskrit etc originated in India. Do you westerners ever consider that? All that is FREE!

You'd be surprised at how little these things are actually practiced by the Indian people in India. Its only a select few who are into yoga and meditation. People are more into yoga in the U.S. than in India. Though the quality of teaching [yoga] in India is much better.

In any case yoga rocks! I would suggest learning from someone who is from India because they generally do know it better. Westerners are teaching Yoga as an excercise program and that's really not what it is. I've taken classes from both, and there is a drastic difference. Yoga is really being misrepresented in the United States.

I thought Buddhism originated in China?

Re:Best Thing The Gov Has Done in 2002

[pianophile]

I thought Buddhism originated in China?

No! In India for sure.

Re:Best Thing The Gov Has Done in 2002

[KewlPC]

Yoga, decimal system, astronomy

Yoga
Ok, fine. It was invented in India.

Decimal system
The numerals, at least the ones used by Western countries, are descended from Arabic numerals. The concept of zero as a number was also invented by the Arabs.

Astronomy
Many cultures around the world (Greeks, Romans, Arabs, and Europeans, to name a few) have contributed to astronomy. Nobody "invented" it.

I'm not bashing India. I have nothing against India. But please, get your facts straight.

India can build their own OS..........

[yogkarma]

India can build their own OS, hardware and database system and language, Only problem is Indians are not ready to think this way. They are not ready to fight to get adjusted with current situation of India. As you can see there are more number of psychiatric case in banglore after dot COM then ever. The younger generation's hero is people like sabeer bhatia who earn millions in few years, but that is not the truth any more. The hero who can show path for Indian IT future is the one who will give idea to build entire home made software and hardware solution. The confusing part is that Indians still want to work for foreign company and yet want to live and think like their parents who have experience of working in Indian companies like TATA, BIRLA and Reliance. Or in Indian Government organisation. Where competition means bloody politics, and narrow-minded approach. Indian government must think that ultimately you have to give price to LINUX also in one way or other. As most of the user group are nothing but free bug fixing hut for any software. And as far as cheap labour is the question, ha ha India is the best. Now we have answer of poor people also.

Porting

[jbolden]

...do you really think that Office, Explorer, Visual Studio, Visual Basic, ect ect ect HASN'T been ported to Lunix?

Yes. The windows API hasn't been ported to Linux, GDI hasn't been ported to Linux. That is a tremendous amount of work that would all have to happen first. This topic hasn't failed to come up, and Microsoft's position has always been that it would much too expensive and their isn't any reason (i.e. the major desktop demand for Linux is to escape the rather low licensing costs so why would these same people pay for Office et al).

Re:Porting

[anandrajan]

>Yes. The windows API hasn't been ported to Linux, GDI hasn't been ported to Linux.

Actually, it depends on what you mean by ported. I thought that both Wind/U and Mainwin were commercial ports of the Win32 API to Unix. Also, there's Winelib which of course Microsoft would never use.

Since I'm Indian, I'll take the liberty of saying that there are cultural factors at work here as well. Indians LOVE free stuff. We'll waste gobs and gobs of time with useless junk trying to make it work as long as it's free. And linux is certainly far from being useless junk. Hopefully, this cultural factor will help in creating a balance between Microsoft and open source wares.

Re:Porting

[jbolden]

Mainwin for example says that it cuts porting times down from 18 months to 6 months; so it isn't just a recompile. My guess is that the numbers are similar for Wind/U. Also remember that visual studio itself is much deeper than visual studio apps would be.

In any case I'm not a microsoft employee and haven't seen the source. My point is only that the people who have looked at said it would cost a fortune and would never pay for itself. As for Wine that's way too far behind the times.

Finally as for India and Linux I think there is another major factor. 3rd world office workers tend to be more intellegent and better educated than their 1st world counterparts in similar positions. Which means ease of use is much less important, and ease of customization is more important.

Re:Porting

[CustomDesigned]

Since I'm Indian, I'll take the liberty of saying that there are cultural factors at work here as well. Indians LOVE free stuff. We'll waste gobs and gobs of time with useless junk trying to make it work as long as it's free.

While the time may be "wasted" from a time and materials billing perspective, it is hardly wasted. Trying to make things work exercises creative problem solving, and gains a deeper understanding of how things work. The employee who expends a reasonable amount of time making junk work, even if unsuccessful, will be much better prepared for a real crunch. A wise company will encourage a balanced amount of this.

God is dead

[Anonymous Coward]

And religion is a sham

Where the Hindi and Bengai translations?

[Anonymous Coward]

The five most popular first lang of the world are in order:
(1) Mandrain Chinese
(2) English
(3) Spanish
(4) Bengai
(5) Hindi

There seems to be a lot of India Free Software fans out there too. So my question is why is there no translations for things like Debian and Mozilla for these extremely popular languages?

Maybe there are and I just can't find them, but it seem the two most popular langs of India could use some more support in the Free Software world.

Re:Where the Hindi and Bengai translations?

[unmadindu]

1. Bengali - www.bengalinux.org, www.nongnu.org/freebangfont, www.banglapenguin.org
2. Hindi - www.indlinux.org

Thinking

[Anonymous Coward]

Using Linux? "You've really thought this through."

Using Windows? "Knee-jerk, don't know any better, lusers."

Whatever.........

He may be annoying

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know.

But he changed the world.

I don't have to call the OS GNU/Linux to know that all this wouldn't have happened without *his* idea.

Linus is great, probably even more competent than many. But RMS kicked the ball. Who knows how many years we would have to wait for Linux, had he not started GNU?

Good night... Sleep well, knowing tomorrow morning no change in EULA will happen to Linux, thanks to good folks like RMS, Linus, many, many others and... the GPL!

Money cannot buy everything......

[Stumbles]

It is pleasing to hear India did not let themselves be blinded by his most billygness. Reading the remarks made by India after that billyg's most graceous donations, I got the feeling they were not fooled by his actions. So does this mean Billyg will want his money back?

And why would they want to buy it now?

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll want it free (software).

This is good news though, now all programming can be outsourced to India. No need to pay expensive American coders now. Start filling out applications at McDonalds, guys, you soon won't be needed here anymore.

The rich get richer, thanx to India.

The really good thing

[Lord Bitman]

Once Linux gets a large user-base (yes, You can consider it large now, but you'd be wrong in this context, 'kay?), there will be a shitload of user complaints. Finally something will be done about many of the very serious (to a USER, not a techie) problems which Linux faces. And hopefully, our solutions will be better than those of windows.
Remember: Options, not changes!

Hurray for socialism!

[lseltzer]

So now Slashdot officially endores state central planning? The government really seems to have thought this out all right, I guess we should let them decide what software we should run. Hey, it worked in the .su, didn't it?

Re:Hurray for socialism!

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, I though India was just mandating linux for government use, not banning non-linux OSs for everyone.

Re:Hurray for socialism!

[TomV]

Just where did you get the idea that there's any socialist planning going on here. As I understand it, India was socialist until several decades ago, not now

2002 is the first year of the Tenth Five Year Plan in India, mandating the prices of staples such as rice, milk, sugar, of paraffin for domestic cooking, and of industrial essentials like fuel, fertilisers, electricity. The Plan also sets the vast tariff rates on many products such as textiles and cars/trucks/2-wheelers that maintain local production...

The BJP may be moving the country away from command socialism, but there's a long way to go yet, and the process has to be managed carefully because the livelihoods and indeed survival of a billion people depend on getting it right.

I 'get the idea' from having visited the country in the last year. I'm backed up in this belief by, for instance, the WTO's review of the latest 5-year Plan.

TomV

Re:Hurray for socialism!

[laurensv]

What OS where they using in the USSR anyway? I know it's a bit off topic, but I wondered about that last week and maybe one of you guys might know.

note to mod's

[RobertTaylor]

How big of a tee-pee will the Indians need for their server room?

-1 Wrong.

Is this another case of people in the USA not knowing there is a wider world?

Re:note to mod's

[Anonymous Coward]

I assumed you were making a sarcastic reply to a joke. Then I noticed that you are from the uk, so I thought I'd explain that in America we have a thing called sarcasm.

Hope that helps! Thanks!

Talented coders?

[titzandkunt]

I think that India is a hot bed of really
fukken dirt cheap coders who produce a
highly mediocre product, at least in some of the
out-sourced code I've been privileged to review.

-Full o' monstrous multi-purpose classes, dragged
in, kicking and screaming from some other project,
because they almost do the job, and with
a bit of tweaking and arm twisting, hey, it's close
enough for governmint work!

There's no intrinsic software analysis / design
/ coding merit to be had, merely by having
an address in the subcontinent...

T&K.

Hindi????

[phatboy22]

You wont need to learn your HINDI, because ALL Indian people who have a college education are fluent in British English.....this includes everyone who is a programmer.....since you need to be fluent in english to become a programmer in india.....

>>>Maybe they will outsource linux support to the us!

>>>I better start learning my Hindi!

Re:Hindi????

[Anonymous Coward]

college eductations... they speak english... and you still can't understand a word those straight-haired niggers say.

Re: Hindi????

[Black Parrot]

> You wont need to learn your HINDI, because ALL Indian people who have a college education are fluent in British English

OK, we'll start working on our British English instead.

Yes! Now we can fire US programmers!

[Anonymous Coward]

I can hire ultra cheap Indian coders and sell my programs in the USA for the SAME PRICES!!!!

1) Create programming company.
2) Outsource work to India.
3) Sell at full retail in USA.
4) PROFIT!!!!!

GOD DEAD AT 51...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sad news today. 'God', also known as the creator of the universe, died of a heart attack today at his home in downtown heaven, at the age of 51. Details are still being released.

God's publicist issued a statement saying, "God was truly a groundbreaking individual. His acts and deeds will be remembered for years to come. He will be sorely missed."

God's publicist went on to say that private services are being held for God's family and close friends; however, there will be a public remembrance scheduled for God for any and all to attend.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Wow...

[Salubri]

I can't believe what I'm reading today. I really cannot.

From what I can tell this article was origionally put up on slashdot in order to show that Linux and open software were starting to gain some "marketshare" in the global scheme of things with the Indian government maneuvering to deploy the OS.

So what do I find really as I scroll through the comments today? I see people claiming that this is bad because other countries might be using something other than Microsoft, which employs americans. I see racist comment after racist comment. In fact I've seen so much of it in this thread that I am sickened by this.

If this is the case, you might ask why I'm responding or why I even bothered to continue reading. Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment, or maybe rather than get sickened and let things bother me it gives me the fuel to give a constructive criticism. Either way I'm compelled to speak my mind. Mod me in any direction that seems appropriate.

First of all, I'm having a little trouble seeing how this is costing any american jobs. From everything that I'm gathering here, the Indian government is, by and large, an undeveloped market in computing. No one is losing their job because linux is being used. No market is shrinking over this. The only thing that can be said is that Microsoft is not EXPANDING it's influence into India further. Microsoft still has all the lucritive markets it had before.

Secondly, I've seen many comments about the level of filth or inferiority of the people living over there. Perhaps people have had it too easy for a while to really see one point. In a country like the US, with a relatively strong economy and relatively low unemployment, it is much easier for a person to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. It is much easier to use programs provided by either public or private institutions to train in a field and get a job. What if that was taken away? What if you were born into an environment that wasn't as cushioned? You'd be struggling just as much as anyone there, or anywhere else where life is hard.

Are jobs being lost in the US? Absolutely. Wal-Mart is killing off Mom-and-Pop shops. American companies are killing off other american companies all the time. American companies are even doing things like moving to other spots in the country where employment is low. I can remember the day that the factory in my hometown shut it's doors because the local union employees refused to work for less than $20.00 an hour. They went somewhere more viable for employment. In the case I gave, South Carolina... where people were more than willing to bottle beer for $8.00 an hour. Just because jobs are being lost in America doesn't mean they're being relocated overseas. It's ignorant and just plain fucking stupid to think so.

I do agree with one of the posters I saw here... Americans really do need to learn to tighten their belts if they want to stay competetive. You can't keep on earning a salary that allows you to buy/lease a new car every year, computer upgrades every 6 months, eating out every night, and living like a king to produce a product in a global economy where people with the same skill set are starving and willing to do the same job for much less. It's the reason that a Gibson Les Paul will cost $2000 while the Epiphone Les Paul is $600.

~shakes head~ Okay. I'm done ranting. I'll get off my soap box now. But it's like one poster said... people should be open about thier opinions.

Re:Wow...

[Badanov]

I guess your response is racist too. If Americans cannot discuss how worried they are about jobs, you would have to be racist for not allowing the remarks to stand without using the Red Herring of calling them and their remarks racist.

What a dickhead you are!

Re:Wow...

[RebelTycoon]

Dear Salubri,

We regret to inform you that your job has been terminated as we are opening an oversea's office.

Have a Happy Holidays,

(yes... its important to tighten our belts... YOU FIRST!)

Re:Wow...

[egarrido16]

amen to that. thank you for taking your time to respond.

Re:Wow...

[Illserve]

You can't keep on earning a salary that allows you to buy/lease a new car every year, computer upgrades every 6 months, eating out every night, and living like a king to produce a product in a global economy where people with the same skill set are starving and willing to do the same job for much less.

You can in a world without globalization. We've been doing it for decades. And somehow the idealistic demonstrators fail to realize that by protesting the Globalization movement, they are fighting to do just what they are most concerned about.

Those people are throwing bricks through starbucks windows to keep people in third world countries poor, they just don't know it.

It's damned sad is what it is. I've protested other things, but I did my homework about it first. I wish these people would focus their energy on thinking about the problem rather than railing against the system just because it's the flavor of the month.

Re:Wow...

[Salubri]

There is quite the difference between talking about being worried about jobs and saying "those dot-heads are taking all our jobs."

The former is understandable. I spent quite a few years between tech jobs working wherever I could find work. It can be rather tough.

The latter is racist praddle.

Re:Wow...

[Salubri]

Ya know, I've had to before and I continue to do so simply because in modern day you never know when your next day of work will be your last, especially in the technology field. But the problem goes beyond places just moving overseas. Companies that did have funding are losing it and just drying up. Companies are terminating branch offices in one area of the country and opening up in another where they can pay workers less. Sitting back and just blaming other countries isn't examining the full picture.

Re:Wow...

[Salubri]

I agree whole-heartedly.

I think it's a common trend though. When people get angry, they get stupid. Everyone, including myself, does this. I've had to train myself to sit back, calm down, and examine all sides of the situation whenever I get pissed off.

Re:Wow...

[Tyndareos]

Those idealistic demonstrators you describe are not against globalization. They are in fact for globalization, but against the unfair globablization that most of the first world countries prefer, because they realise that real and honest globalization will have a serious impact on their economies that will have a very hard time to compete on almost any ground.

Of course it's much easier for those being protested against to claim that the protesters are against globalization and against improvements for impoverished countries: even half-smart people who don't bother to inform themselves buy that.

Re:Wow...

[Daengbo]

I can't believe what I'm reading today. I really cannot.
You need to stop reading at -1...;)
Seriously, while Slashdot is filled with narrowminded people, I'm willing to bet that most of the responses that sicken you are merely well crafted trolls. That in itself is cause for alarm, but know that many of these same post were not heartfelt. DB

Re:Wow...

[PD]

This happens sometimes, but is not sustainable for a few reasons:

-Indian programmers are not supermen. In a lot of cases, they can suck pretty badly. A project that is not technically possible in the US will also not be completed if it is sent to India
-All politics are local. Most projects fail because of politics. Indian programmers and managers cannot engage in political games that might be required to finish the project.
-Communications are hampered because of language, culture, distance, and schedule. It's inconvenient and therefore expensive to communicate with people who are sleeping.
-Intellectual property cannot be protected as effectively in another country.

For these reasons, some companies will eventually move jobs back to the US after a few projects fail in India. On a global scale, there will always be some projects sent to India, but not ALL of them.

Furthermore, the quantity of Indian programmers is very large, but not infinite. The demand for software and computer services might be met by overseas programmers in the short term, but rapid growth will resume and eventually we'll run out of Indian programmers.

Finally, sending contracts to India is something that larger companies will tend to do more often. They are often inefficient, and individual managers in large companies cannot impact the efficiency of the entire organization. They optimize their departments instead, and those optimizations might not make much sense globally. On the other hand, a smaller company would be more efficient to begin with, and efficiencies would be more likely to take place across the organization. Therefore, a smaller company is in a better position to take advantage of the benefit of having a local programming staff with better organizational integration.

Conclusions: smaller companies are less likely to send jobs overseas, but won't suffer for it. Large companies will alternately send work overseas and then recall it. Projects will still fail no matter where they are done. Indian programmers are not going to eat our lunch any more than Japanese autoworkers destroyed American industry. You live in a global economy, though it might not look like it if you drive 5 minutes to work. Nobody said life was going to be easy.

No void to fill

[dark-nl]

The world already has far worse things than Microsoft. We may like to cast Microsoft as the Evil Empire, but I doubt it's about to overthrow the Indian government and install a brutal military regime. Compare this with the United Fruit Company, now affectionately known as Chiquita.

Demanding obscene pay

[msobkow]

You are correct in that most so-called programmers with less than 5 years experience think they "deserve" a six-figure salary because they used to be with some dot-bomb. You are also correct that most of them aren't productive enough to justify those rates.

The problem is that people with the experience to justify those salaries have a hard time getting noticed and hired when 490 of the 500 resumes submitted are barely or un- qualified.

The problem is also that businesses have no problem nickel and diming their development salaries post-dot-bomb. Hell, I just saw a posting for Oregon that was offering a whopping $12/hour for front-line Unix support. How many people with any kind of professional training (doctor, engineer, lawyer) would even dream of taking a job at such rates? Yet it's "greedy" for me to expect to make a living with a University degree and fifteen years experience to back me up?

Re:Demanding obscene pay

[EzInKy]

How many people with any kind of professional training (doctor, engineer, lawyer) would even dream of taking a job at such rates? Yet it's "greedy" for me to expect to make a living with a University degree and fifteen years experience to back me up?

There's no comparison at all. If a Doctor, Lawyer, or Engineer botch a job they are held legally and finacially responsible.

Pretty disappointing

[rks404]

I am shocked to see how quickly this post has turned into racist troll bait. It's amazing how ugly people's attitudes can turn with a downturn in the economy. So many people here are quick to blame Indians for the fact that there are so many jobs being shifted overseas - aren't the American companies and the US government that allows this also to blame? I do agree that we should be more protective of our domestic economy, but the people that are truly profiting off of cheap Indian labor are the American mega-corps like IBM, Sun and Oracle.

This post has been eye-opening for me, as an unemployed Indian-American programmer, because I've always seen the entire Linux/Free Software/late 90's geek culture as a new kind of social phenomenon unencumbered by the baggage of the past, including racism and nationalistic xenophobia. The idea of all these foreign governments throwing their weight behind Linux means that there will be a larger userbase, more developers, and more vitality to the entire Free Software movement. But instead of greeting this with open arms, I see lots of people denigrating India and Indians. Yeah, more curry jokes and discussion about filthy, stupid Indians. Don't forget that your favorite OS was initially developed overseas by foreigners and is currently picking up lots of steam in Asia.

Re:Pretty disappointing

[Salubri]

...I've always seen the entire Linux/Free Software/late 90's geek culture as a new kind of social phenomenon unencumbered by the baggage of the past, including racism and nationalistic xenophobia...

You and I both man. I've worked crap job after crap job here in America to educate myself. I didn't turn around and blame others when I wasn't handed a cushy job with no degree just because I knew a couple programming languages and how to run linux.

I don't even know what to really say that I haven't said in my previous post or you haven't said. However, I think I'm adding you to my friends list.

Re:Pretty disappointing

[rks404]

Thanks Salubris! I added you to my friend list as well. I just started to read the earlier post about the short lifespan of Engineering careers in America and I think I see where a lot of the frustration is coming from.

In the interests of peace between the US and India, I'd like to propose that henceforth, all marketing and sales in America be sent offshore to be handled by Indians. That way, the Indians will have jobs, the American engineers will have jobs and everyone will be happy except for sales and marketing (which is as it ought to be)

Re:Pretty disappointing

[Simon Brooke]

This post has been eye-opening for me, as an unemployed Indian-American programmer, because I've always seen the entire Linux/Free Software/late 90's geek culture as a new kind of social phenomenon unencumbered by the baggage of the past, including racism and nationalistic xenophobia.

I think (I hope!) you're getting this impression because you're looking at it the wrong way. I am, as usual, reading at +3, and so far I've seen one off-colour joke and no racism at all. People who regularly contribute to Slashdot and thus have the karma to post at automatic +2 are not racists and are not posting hate-speach - and I honestly believe that they are more representative of the actual contributing Open Source community than all the Anonymous Cowards and trolls.

Re:Pretty disappointing

[gimpboy]

hey dont confuse the loud minority with the rest of us. for what it's worth, i'm about as white as it gets, and i am glad india is adopting linux. if the us follows this trend, our tax dollars can be better spent on things other than license fees.

i also have quite a few indian friends, and i'm a big fan of the food. i'm also trying to learn hindi for fun and because i think it would be fun to work in india some day.

just remember that the people you are seeing here dont represent all of us.

Re:Pretty disappointing

[rks404]

I have to say that you and Simon Brooke are right - I viewed the comments in this thread before moderation took care of a lot of the noise generators. People like I'mARacist posted a lot of comments and basically took a shit on this entire thread, but luckily moderation has filtered out a lot of it. Good job moderators!

Hope this fructifies......

[geo_2677]

This is good news indeed. As a linux programmer based in India, this certainly is more than a great news. All the more happy, just like many others out there, that Windows is being shown the door. Beleive it or not, the Open Source champions in India owe a lot of thanks to Bill Gates for this. If he hadn't come to India to make a publicity stunt of supporting the AIDS cause( ofcourse he is more worried about Linux than AIDS ) Linux would not have got so much attention in govt. circles and media as it does now. A few months ago any ordinary business man would know and talk only abt MS and Windows. Now he knows about Linux also. Now whenever the media talks MS it talks about Linux in the same breath. Free OS gets free publicity.

dots...

[Anonymous Coward]

...not feathers.

Re:dots...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hail AC... Doh! Can't ever take that one back huh?

Shades of Mexico?

[bogie]

I'm not trying to put a damper on this, but lets not forget what happened in the past. I certainly remember hearing all sorts plans Mexico had for Linux. There were supposed to be millions of installs by now. Now its just remembered as one of Linux's higher profile failures. So while all the rah rah "let's embrace the underdog" talk is nice, get back to me linux hits >50% of the desktops.

If India is as important to the world of software as everyone says it is, Microsoft isn't just going to walk away. They'll throw a billion or two into PR, lobbying, software give-aways, and FUD before giving up. And then they'll throw in a billion more. Remember money IS the only thing that matters(carve that into your dorm room desk). The fact that MS is competing with something that can be downloaded for free doesn't change anything.

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,4573 7, 00.html

Re:Shades of Mexico?

[vijay-slashdot]

People..either you are not Indian or haven't heard of the term 'red tape'. No. Am not talking of the famous shoe brand, but am referring to the full time job of n number of bureaucrats and illiterate politicians who are the decision makers. They see only $$ and as you know M$ has already 'donated' some. Don't call me skeptical. Am tell ground reality. Visit any 'computerized' and 'modern' govt. office. You will get an impressive set of software and hardware which the market stopped used a decade back. And guess what..they were 'installed/developed' just than few months back. Seeing all those govt. officials attending foxpro, DB2, WordStar trainings make me sick...and the only reason they signed for the training in the first place is the salary hike and a free ride to the state capitals(where else can such obsolete softwares taught??). Only hope people at the top like Mahajan(IT minister), Karnik(NASSCOM president) have some sense and strength to overcome these babus.

Re:Shades of Mexico?

[Anonymous Coward]

i'd agree partly to bogie. m$ is not going to walk away.and neither are the politicians.they have a term of max 5 years, and will they be raking in the money or promoting the good of the people?
there's only one tech-savvy chief minister in all of india's states, and he's (understandably) pro-m$. so i'd take this story with a generous pinch of salt, and wait up with bogie to see if it actually happens.
however, this does'nt mean that open source and linux wont flourish in india.we've been installing linux when it used to come in a 20-floppy set, downloaded over the course of 3 days; and have been playing with it since.

Does that mean we swear allegiance to OSS and RMS, tho? No! Cause we cannot afford to! If the job says we need m$, we'll do m$. and if it means we have to pirate m$ software so that we can learn it at home, by god we'll do it!

its probably got to do with the indian way of life - we're not too religious about stuff like this

Guess What - Indians do Welsh, Irish accent too

[Valluvan]

Guess what. "This year, a British telecom consultancy, Teleconomy, decided to check out if people sitting in London or Glasgow and sundry other British towns could make out whether the call centre agent of X, Y or Z company they were talking to on the phone was an Indian sitting in India or not." http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/u ncomp/articleshow?artid=32399333

Why is this considered a Troll?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because he's telling the truth that somebody doesn't want to hear??

Not used to american rage

[m1a1]

I see that you are a little unfamiliar with the rage that only us Americans seem to have. Simply put, we are an angry people. Some people think we just try to pass of blame onto other people to take it off of our own backs. This is sometimes true. But it would be much more accurate to say we just blame everyone for anything for the hell of it. When you get to a certain point of pissed off, you can't have enough targets. If you lose your job to someone willing to work 70 hours a week for 35 grand a year, the "hard working Indian immigrant" becomes a "daiper-head terroist" or "dot wearing misogynists", etc. It isn't that most Americans really hate Indians. Not at all. But when we get pissed we aren't afraid to say it. You will also notice more Americans are killed in violent rage by Americans every year than Indians. We just make fun of you, we kill each other.

linux and india

[romit_icarus]

I'm not sure if everyone knows the core of the linux vs MS war in India. The article might give us the impression that Linux is big in India. Reality check - it's not. You find MS is practically every business and most aspects of academia, save some progressive CS departments. How is that possible with the high license fees? Well, the truth is that India doesn't *pay* for MS. There's no official number but far more than half of the MS installs are pirated. Result - MS seems to be implicitly supporting this piracy. It's a smart move because while they lose out on sales, they get 10% of the global software workforce on their side!

Re:linux and india

[Daengbo]

There's no official number but far more than half of the MS installs are pirated.
Here in Thailand, the gov't estimates that over 97% of all software is pirated. I wonder why MS ever bothers to do a local language version...

Sacrificing Level

[Nishi-no-wan]

- As far as complaing about jobs, sorry man (really!), but remember, those of you lower on the ladder were sacraficed for those higher up. How many bosses took pay cuts or forfeited their vacation so you could stay on board? Absolutely none!

Actually, in Japan, it isn't unusual for the higher ups to take a pay cut/lose their bonuses for the lower people to not lose theirs in these current hard times. In good times, upper management gets a good piece of the pie, but they're willing to take less to keep everyone fed in harder times.

Unheard of in North America, I'm sure.

India should show middle finger

[jhaanti]

To those who think US economy suffer because India adopts Linux, I say India should show a middle finger. They don't need to support the [American] polluting cars, or disposable junk, that is again dumped back to 3rd world countries, like say India or China! They are under no f**ing obligation to pump billions of $ into bug ridden, closed source, trap door infested software.

On a grander scale, when the globalization happens, the playing field starts leveling out. In an equilibrium situation, salary for the same job in different parts of the world should be able to get you the same lifestyle. There is a long way to go there, but it will and it should happen.

I also have something to say to those racist American pigs. They can kiss my a**.

Re:India should show middle finger

[Anonymous Coward]

"I also have something to say to those racist American pigs. They can kiss my a**."

Kettle here. That you, pot?

nitpick and free-association

[MegaFur]

precise, wide-reaching steps

Alright, I'd like you to imagine a Battlemech or a Golem or an Ent--something large. Now, imagine how it walks... Could anything that big ever be described as having precise steps?

Come one, guys "precise" and "wide-reaching steps" just don't go together.
(I think so Brain, but where will find rubber pants our size? NARF!)

Unix popularity in India

[billstewart]

I haven't followed the computer development trends in India for almost a decade, but in the late 80s - early 90s, Unix was quite popular over there, with the IITs doing a lot of teaching about it and US companies opening offices in Bangalore and starting to do development there. UNIX and Open Source are much different business models, of course, but access to source, and decent operating systems that let you actually build things that work reliably, and tool-based development approaches are consistent between them, and obviously open-source environments mix better with the academic world over there than closed-source, and environments that let you do real work with modern software on older machines are a good match for third-world economies. It doesn't surprise me to see Linux taking hold.

Of course, back then, while Microsoft was definitely one of the competitors, so was IBM's mainframe world, and to some extent other proprietary operating systems like VMS, since DEC machines were in the right price ranges.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Sensationalist Headlines

[donutello]

The article is light on details but from reading it there were two things I gathered they were doing:

1. When asking for bids, the requirements wouldn't specify Microsoft - rather specify the true requirements.

2. Computer textbooks wouldn't teach Word or Excel - rather teach how to use word processors and spreadsheets.

Both are things they should be doing regardless of Linux. It's asinine to do otherwise.

More power to India

[Anonymous Coward]

First, all you ignorant bigots need to STFU. Go put on your sheets and hoods and go burn a cross somewhere---like your own yard.

Now, get a clue. A low per capita income and lack of overpriced housing does equate to lack of skill, intelligence or ability to get things done. Anyone with a clue about Indian history knows that; anyone with a clue about major contributors to mathematics and the sciences also knows that.

India should be able to do a damn great job applying and massaging up a good national Linux distro. Presuming that many boxen there currently run unlicensed Windows installs, that doesn't mena those same people won't go for something better.

So more power to 'em, and best of luck! If you've got something intelligent to contribute, cool. If you're just another ignorant bigot running off at the mouth, go see your boys in D.C.

Happy Friday,
Thumper

I don't buy it.

[0x0d0a]

That's ridiculous, and both of us know it.

Excuse you, but Clinical Depression is not just 'the blues', or feeling a little sad because your boss yelled at you, etc etc.

Yes, I'm aware of the differences.

It's a real disease, and sometimes pills are one of the only, if not the only, treatments with any reasonable degree of effectiveness.

Sure. The common cold is a real disease. Allergies (of the severity that make your nose run constantly for a season, not the kind that cuts off your airways) are as well. And neither are particularly pleasant, but people can also cope with each without throwing down Prozac or Claratin. And if they can't, then they may well have to be...depressed.

The point of my original point is not to attack people who suffer from clinical depression in particular. It's that we're giving ourselves all sorts of perks and rewards that the competition is doing without, and that aren't really all that necessary.

software engineering people!

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone remember software engineering? or is one?

Its in the best nature of software development to have large groups of peer review, tons of documentation, source-code access (documentation is not perfect), a diverse development team with a broad range of talents--and correct allocation of those.... etc.

Open source is the BEST model for the developement of computer software, or for that matter many other forms of design. The other issues such as profit, are unrelated to the fact that it is still the BEST model.

Why re-invent the wheel when the experts can unite and work/collaborate in groups LARGER that previously possible?

Not even MS can out pace the schools, governments, volunteers, and yes even corps working together -- perhaps not as well organized as a monopoly, they has more than enough man-power to use shear force.

An OS is not a big deal. It should never have been.
An OS is just like a DRIVER.

It would be a different world if all your INPUT devices used a single bloated buggy driver...
think user side: They just want to email & surf not learn what an OS is or pay for it.

The market should have been based around the hardware, which just came with drivers that worked together in conjunction with the "master" driver.

I would not pay for a driver for my new mouse. would you?

Call Center business in India

[billstewart]

There was a piece on US Nationalized Public Radio the other week about the call center business in India. In the last two years, it's grown to about a $5B/year business, and is still on a steep growth curve. So it's not surprising that there are people in the government saying "Me Too! I invented the Call Center right after I helped Al Gore invent the Internet!" One of the big things that made it possible was telecom liberalization - the VSNL monopoly has been a drag on India's economic growth for years, and as they're gradually getting out of the way, people are starting to be able to get the communications tools they need to open up new business opportunities.

Other countries have been doing call center outsourcing for a long time - the Caribbean has a lot of it, and while C&W was a monopoly in much of the area, it was much more competent than VSNL, and the area has some level of integration with the US telecom networks.

More Bengali speakers than Hindi speakers??

[raj2569]

Hey,

Can you give the source of this information. This is a new information for me

raj

"Precise, wide-reaching steps?"

[fruey]

The leader of the article says so... however

As far as concrete pro-Linux acts go, government tenders may soon stop specifying Microsoft or any other vendor's name while floating software tenders

That's precise if you say "will soon" instead of "may soon". Otherwise it's just conjecture.

The government is also setting up special interest groups with officials of industry and academia to find out how Linux can be deployed in e-governance, defence, education and so on.

That's only wide-reaching if these groups actually get up and do something.

Don't get me wrong - I think we'll see a lot of good IT out of India, and indeed there is already a lot of good stuff coming out of there. They are WAY ahead of supposedly developed neighbours yet early enough on the curve to avoid this Microsoft hold on the market. Think about it. In the US, Microsoft has dominated since DOS days, and people can't accept Linux, they think it's something new. IIRC however, Linux is now 10+ years old.

I get paid less than an imported worker, who cares

[theolein]

I'm a Sys Admin in Switzerland for a small company. I was unemployed here for almost a year before I took the overworked, underpaid job that I now have. I have since found out that a guy from Egypt (MCSE) and a guy from India (CS degree) both interviewed for the job. They were both turned down because they both expected almost double of what I am earning. Their level of IT education was higher than mine and they were both very competent I have heard. I'm envious that I don't have the education to ask for salaries like they did.

The morals of the story:
1.When times are hard you have to go with the times. This goes for workers of every nation, race and creed.
2.An institution will go for the IT solution that provides the best price/performance solution.
3.IT workers of all nations are dumb in that we don't form Unions. The exploitation of IT workers of all nations, seems to be similar to the sweat shops of the third world.

Power to India for considering moving to Linux on a big scale. The independance gained for them is a major point given that MS (and other large US industries) are not above using the US government to strong arm nations into becoming franchises for those same industries. I only wish that some other governments, including those here in Europe *and* the US would have the same long term view, because MS is only going to get more and more mean and tricky the more they fear the Linux revolution.

GDI to X isn't that must work...

[gatkinso]

...a year, tops. If you think Bill Gates can't afford such an effort simply for the exercize you are crazy.

He can, and has. Take my work for it.

Time to buy stock in Red Dot Linux

[Call Me Black Cloud]

Sorry, couldn't resist...

custom php programming , web development scenario

[chrisranjana.com]

a suggestion:-
-----------------

assume a client has a budget of US$7500 for a project.

1) the client asks an US programmer the price for doing the project in php and he says US$6750.

2) the same client asks a programmer from India the price for doing the same project and he says US$675.

3) Now if the client pays US$675 and completes the project thru an offshore programmer in India ..The programmer in USA will continue to lose projects and the programmer in India will continue to gain projects.

4) How to reverse this trend ?
In step 3 above if the client insists on paying atleast US$4750 to the programmer in India for completing the project.

How much the SAME programmer will charge when he is asked to do the next project of the same calibre by a DIFFERENT client ?

will he ask US$675 or US$4750 ?
He will definitely go for US$4750 and this way the asking rate of both offshore programmers as well as USA programmers will slowly become even.

This is a good start but....

[objwiz]

: Interestingly, India's plan calls for government-sponsored support and call centers. Looks like they've really thought this through.

Government sponsored *anything* is not thought through. Government never does anything efficently (expect war, maybe).

A throughly thought through program would have found ways to have the private sector (ie employers) take on those rolls.

While I am glad to see, finally, a significant embrace of linux and open source, having a government support it in that manner goes against the concepts and ideals of the open source community.

again?

[matt4077]

*yawn*, these Linux in india stories remind me of my business 105 class: inflation

Bingo

[mtngrown]

Dealing with minor physical and mental illnesses used to be a hallmark of maturity and professionalism. Nowadays it seems like those of us who just get on with it are punished for our insensitivity, and/or our ability to deal with such matters independently means, _by definition_, that we don't actually, *really* suffer. Because if we did, we would obviously be in the care of "mental health" professionals.

Re:Bingo

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear mtngrown,

We are delighted to inform you that you have been awarded the grand prize for excellence due to your ability to 'just get on with it' and see through the facade of the current 'mental health' profession. Your trophy shall arrive soon. ...no, i'm kidding. you are an arrogant prick, an asshole who's opinions i hold with no regard.

mental illness, depression and such, are real and verifiable diseases. there are different levels of SEVERITY that affect different people - another thing to keep in mind. please go fuck off, or contribute something worthwhile here to the topic of linux and the Indian Government.

gov't mule

[Anonymous Coward]

The Indian gov't is hardly going to make a dent in the worldwide IT strategy with their adoption of Linux. They will probably spend a truckload of money and then start releasing contract tenders which will start an all-out bidding war between companies in the private sector. of course some unheard of 10 man shop will probably win this bid. They will probably use DOS with FoxPro/Clipper eventually.

YHBT. YHL. HAND.

[Anonymous Coward]

YHBT. YHL. HAND.

a perfect business opportunity

[seirui]

The entire world is hungry for Linux tech support, and the Indian government has the capability to become the largest single source of Linux guru's. For a moderate yearly fee, they could become quite effective as the world's largest Linux Support Center, and quite rich as well...

Where have you been?

[djupedal]

The USA started becoming a service based economy 5 years ago. Look at education...what have we been training our population for...nothing, but to be consumers.

Your conclusions are all correct, just very late coming, that's all you've managed to point out.

Stay competitive? The horse has left the barn... We're history now...you just don't know it.

Last Post!

[alpg]

He thought of Musashi, the Sword Saint, standing in his garden more than
three hundred years ago. "What is the 'Body of a rock'?" he was asked.
In answer, Musashi summoned a pupil of his and bid him kill himself by
slashing his abdomen with a knife. Just as the pupil was about to comply,
the Master stayed his hand, saying, "That is the 'Body of a rock'."
-- Eric Van Lustbader

- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...