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X-Box Private Key Challenge Ended
powerlord writes "The Neo Project (mentioned in a recent slashdot article) recently stopped its bid to recover the X-Box private key citing legal reasons: "Due to legal reasons, we will no longer be hosting or participating in the xbox challenge." DCers.com, a site devoted to distributed computing sheds some light on Neo's sudden flip-flop with a blurb claiming that: "... many legitiment DC'ers that have been working this project since it started that have decided to quit because of the new Neo client that also tries to crack the X-Box encryption." and that they believed this might ultimately kill The Neo Project."
Microsoft got to them first!
www.slightlycrewed.com - Because aren't we all?
Microsoft, again, crushes anything it wants.
It's sad that the reason it shut down is for "legal reasons" instead of "the realization that it was utterly futile".
I mean, they HAD been working for a few days. Perhaps they got the key! :-P
"Yeah. We, um. Well. We're going to stop now. And cite an obvious legal reason, though we ignored that same reason when we first started. Because we wanted the key. But... now we don't. Or something. Look, I don't care, explain it to yourself. Just know that we've stopped, and are happy. Ok? Ok. Good. Now, onto other news..."
Informatus Technologicus
I guess the XBox commercial slogan "Life is short" applies to everything xbox related, and not just the console itself
Anybody else automatically assume that it had ended because they found the key?
Hahahahahah. Intellectual property disrespecting morons.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
This is somewhat on-topic.
Awhile back, it was stated that XBox game discs spun backwards, thus making emulation and even making legitimate backups as close to impossible as anyone could ever imagine.
As for this current discussion, this makes me totally upset, because I've been wanting, for months for someone to start releasing hacks of our favorite next-gen console games.
TONY HAWK PRO SEGWAY 2 WILL BE THE BEST ROM HACK EVER. Well, almost as good as Mega Crap...
Why is it when I hit ^R that ZSH calls me a cocksucker?
I wish I could read slashdot.org's Apache access_log to see how many times a day Microsoft visits
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
Well you see there is this thing called proof reading...
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
A posting by Mike Curry (who's on The NEO Development Team) states: "We will not be answering questions or commenting anymore on this subject." See XBOX Challenge - Back to 576!
hmmm see if anyone else can connect the dots:
Neo Project
Futuristic technology
Hacking
Crack the X-box encryption(i.e. the matrix)
Microsoft IS the matrix....
I'm going to hang up my controllers now.... be afraid, be very afraid.... (Cool Music here)
No prizes for guessing that would happen.
--
Adobe's anti-counterfeiting softw
Does anyone, perhaps close to the Neo Project, have any idea why the stopped trying to crack the XBox key? They state legal reasons, but I don't see any specifics. As far as I knew, this was legal. After all, isn't this what The Neo Project does all the time? Why is the key being on the XBox any different?
Question
http://www.ironfroggy.com/
I guess the XBox commercial slogan "Life is short" applies to everything xbox related, and not just the console itself
"Life is Short" applies to anything Micro$haft dislike in the slightest. With the backing of the lobbyism and a rightist government, life is easy.
Netscape, Java, freedom anyone?
Microsoft employees, like everyone else, need a good laugh.
Pretend you work for Microsoft. What better way to kick back and relax than to look at one of your chief "adversaries" as they duplicate stories, encourage at least as much FUD as you do, engage in hilarious hypocrisy ("MPAA IS BAD! Did you see LOTR? OMG WTF IT WAS GRATE!"), and think some unweildy kludgy, inconsistent OS written by cave trolls for cave trolls with mind-numbing MAN pages and HOWTOs will be used by everyone's grandma tomorrow?
No wonder half slashdot's visitors use IE - they're all MS employees surfing from their desks as MS having a grand old laugh.
and that they believed this might ultimately kill The Neo Project.
So, if you remove the main purpose of the Neo Project, it may kill the project? Obviously.
Well it was a good idea guys, time to shutdown...
recently stopped its bid to recover the X-Box private key citing legal reasons
Well duh . You don't think Microsoft (or any company, for that matter) would just sit back and let you crack a private key they use for actual business? It's one thing to crack a key in a challenge specifically presented for that purpose, but it's another thing to try to, in effect, come up with a way of forging Bill Gates' signature.
NO CARRIER
40881828809168530591375819139956085989380020574938 1512491823325275367\2 3437132028369300928737 2136090488973662885\3 5281529166119647272954 3623272112620364581\0 6188703489047492973236 7903825810597884676\9 6494498088117693882712 8484532375726579806\4 8375737098966810233408 2736619960338101994\9 8321364177283871960956 9923672820142531423\8 3247750938845967420404 6551928328834053889\8 7565463644 machines beowulfed in my garage?
003998376109373765758136618
074952085782319420248781372
917102669618547672588166152
008706652644606806303666902
892981235565930906683499598
519114104392953160204053596
115413517917473248413544519
032527313815387159252508549
Zoid.com
Ah, I get it now. I kept thinking why the Neo project would stop working after producing a client they themselves created? Make sense now, I had to keep reading, and re-reading, and re-reading...
"This isn't a study in computer science, its a study in human behavior"
more info
I'm sure plenty of people would still like to crack this key. I propose modifying the Neo Client into a decentralized system so anyone still interested can still donate those CPU cycles.
Question
http://www.ironfroggy.com/
The final battle will be far in the future!
If you didn't see this coming, you have some serious reality issues. This is the first thing that popped into my head when I saw the initial annoucement of the cracking attempt.
All Your Memory Are Belong To Java
and I always get a good laugh from /.
that is the reason why. And fucknozzles as well! You could have gotten a mammogram, but instead you went to Xbox land and you haven't come back.
"fucking"
paraphrased and slightly modified from the mel brooks movie 'spaceballs'.
conversion between crewman asshole, darth helmet, and supreme evil ruler.
Oh, man. Does this mean no more Linux on the X-Box? This news wouldn't be so devastating if there were perhaps some other device capable of running Linux.
*cough*
..make no sense.. head hurt.. neo project killed new project ate neo. Fear the neo project.. there is no spoon..
Trolling is a art,
The key:
9 38 1512491823325275367\2 3437132028369300928737 2136090488973662885\3 5281529166119647272954 3623272112620364581\0 6188703489047492973236 7903825810597884676\9 6494498088117693882712 8484532375726579806\4 8375737098966810233408 2736619960338101994\9 8321364177283871960956 9923672820142531423\8 3247750938845967420404 6551928328834053889\8 7565463644
40881828809168530591375819139956085989380020574
003998376109373765758136618
074952085782319420248781372
917102669618547672588166152
008706652644606806303666902
892981235565930906683499598
519114104392953160204053596
115413517917473248413544519
032527313815387159252508549
Try it.
1. Get X-Box private key.
2. ?
3. Profit!
Conservatives blame Clinton
Liberals blame Reagan
Slashdotters blame Micrsosoft
It's "legitimate", you fucking tools. Maybe The DCers should look into the new Distributed Spelling Client from The English Department. There's also a cool one from The Grammar Project called They're There Their. Abbreviated T3.
Trying to crack the X-Box Private Key *feels* illegal to most users (even if it isn't...IANAL). So, many of the participants of the Neo Project probably decided that they didn't want to have anything to do with that, and stopped participating. This means that they have a lot less computing power for ALL of their projects (not just the X-Box one). So it makes sense for them to stop the X-Box Key Crack if it will bring their users (and computing power) back to the project.
Two things. The first from gamasutra is a story titled "Xbox Encryption Key Under Brute-Force Hack Attack; Could Take Eons". Sounds to me like it was a noble, but ultimately futile goal.
The second is a comment I made to friends immediately after hearing the story. The Neo Project had essentially just rubbed pig's blood and feces all over itself, and then jumped into the South Pacific and splashed its arms around. Hell, they even SAID on their webpage that at the slightest hint of objection of a legal nature, they'd drop everything.
"So what you're saying," I can imagine a Microsoft landshark responding, "is that, if we tell you to stop... you will? Well, in that case.. Stop!" No doubt the landshark then submitted an expense cheque for several hours of "research".
Why did TNP even bother starting? Call me suspicious, but I think it's a big publicity stunt on TNP's part. They got attention.
One thing that indicate the level of professionalism of these people is that the Neo client is written in VisualBasic (check their forums for reference, last night it was _so slow_ that I don't bother linking the thread here). VisualBasic has uses but not here I'm afraid. Yeah, why not lock out all the *nix clusters with cool admins that are the biggest contributors to distributed cracking projects by letting their clusters crack stuff when they otherwise would be idle. I guess they were developing a new portable client from the scratch with C... But still, no sympathy from me.
It doesn't seem to me just as simple as 'signing' some code and burning it to a disc. I don't have the full info with me, but I've seen the dev kit and there is a completely custom layout to an xDVD, with big blocks of sectors reserved for security features. It's reminiscent of the PSX's scheme - 'bad' sectors on the disc that cant be replicated with a burner (they all automatically recalculate ECC info).
Short of having your own pressing facility, the key would do virtually no good. So who would benefit? Asian pirates on a commercial level - they could start pressing counterfeit XBOX titles en masse, just like they did with Dreamcast. They arent going to be selling silvers of debian linux for 5$ a pop on the streets of hong kong, believe me.
Modchips enable those who want the ability to backup their software and run homebrew applications, and I'm wholly in favor of that. If this project succeded, it'd just put mass commercial counterfeiting in the hands of bad guys, which I'm absolutely not in favor of.
(Now, in theory, one could use a no-solder type mod (pogo pins on the lPC header), install some sort of dashboard replacement to install the new linux BIOS and run it. That'd be about it, since you cant modify the original xbox' bios in RAM, you'd never be able to run unsigned native code from a CD/DVD-R. Since you'd have to temporarily mod the console to get linux on there anyways, you might as well flash the TSOP while yer at it)
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Microsoft is legitimately trying to protect their IP with the X-Box licensing scheme. Trying to crack the protecting is a violation of the DMCA, a federal crime.
Guys, instead of trying to do something whose only purpose is to allow people to rip off games, why not do something noble that will help humanity. Here are some suggestions:
e cts.html
1.) Seti@Home
2.) Cure Cancer
3.) Evolution@Home
4.) Entropia
5.) eOn
6.) Climate Prediction
7.) Particle Accelerator Design
8.) Analytical Spectroscopy Research Group
See a complete list here: http://www.aspenleaf.com/distributed/distrib-proj
And no, I don't consider cracking encryption "noble". Especially when people don't seem to get the point that if it takes tens of thousands of computers months and months to crack some encryption, it is GOOD ENCRYPTION.
It was a conversation between Dark Helmet, Colonel Sanders, and President Skroob.
Great... Im gonna be connected to an microsoft product, I can see the blue walls whit error codes already.
http://www.astaserials.com/?search=xbox%20priva
came up with a keygen !
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
But just think of the irony if the key was cracked on a Windows machines with a VB client. Maybe using Excel VBA would've been even funnier.
So, translated, their philosophy was: "Hey you nasty people out there, don't challenge us in any way on this, or we'll just back down! So there!"
Ummm... Something's wrong with their approach. Advertising the fact that you'll fold under the slightest pressure isn't the way to keep an effort going.
Can't say as I blame them though.
"So on one hand, honey is an amazingly sophisticated and efficient food source. On the other hand it's bee backwash."
here here
Why can't anyone at slashdot proofread what they post, and also just generally be informed about the topic at hand? It's Xbox, not X-Box!!!!! Jesus. A few months ago they were writing about Intel's Xenon processor. Look, it's Xeon!!! I'm not asking you guys to be as smart as me, but can you please try???? You're running a professional website, try to act like it.
One, two, three, four, five? That's the combination that an idiot has on his luggage.
If an ax can rip open a suitcase....
Perhaps we're going about this problem all wrong.
--this is an interesting case. I am reluctant to use the old cars and computers analogy, but it's appropriate here. For decades and generations car companies have come up with innovations and released a product that they own, then sell. It has shape, size, presence, features, etc all unique to that comapny, and covered by various laws of ownership and some laws on use, but still a lot of leeway. And for the same amount of time guys have decided that these products needed "souping up" and customiizing and modifying, and it's all been mostly legal. You can take a car, moidify it heavily and still drive on the public road following a set of road use laws, but you can still drive completely different if you want to on your own property or someone elses property-say a race track-in any manner you wish to. They did it for their own reasons which aren't revelant, make it go faster, make it travel on roads not envisioned as the primary road the designers were aiming for (think heavy off road mods), make it look nicer or whatever.
Seems like more than ample past case law to make hardware modding "legal". In the cars cases it might have required the hotrodder to completely disassemble the entire car, see how every single part worked and how it was designed, then decide how they wanted to do it better or different to suit their needs. It's more than legal, it's commonplace and no one thinks twice about it, it's a huge business and millions of people do it as a hobby.
Microsoft is seeking to become a huge exception to the past rules, as are a slew of other computer hardware and software companies. They can't have it both ways, if they actually are selling a product, then said product must be covered by a consumer warranty, and last I looked microsoft insists their products are as-is, no warranty unless they deem to do allow it at their leisure, ie, the "designed software" and "hard coded into the hardware" part. It's one or the other, if they want all the rights of a sellable consumer product, then they must accept normal useability warranties that are applied to every other "product" out there, and they most definetly DON'T accept that, so the courts should tell them (and ALL those other companies that insist on propietary excuslivity "rights" to their warez) to get stuffed until they do. As to modding the hardware itself, it's the same, either you get to OWN a piece of stuff or you don't, you can't half own something. Case precedence should have been set a long time ago, but it wasn't, now it's a big ole mess because it's become entrenched into computer-dom that they can have their cake and eat it too, something no other product has, and only one private business in the US currently enjoys (outside utilities and that gets into what is a utility), and that's major league baseball, which is goofy enough but exists.
Doesn't seem shut down to me. Anyone else still running it?
Rocket science is easy. Neurosurgery, now *that's* difficult.
1) Make something which threatens Microsoft in any way ...
2) Let it get to their attention
3)
4) PROFIT!!!
I think that the audience interested in getting cheaper Xbox games, and the audience who dabbles in high strength math and complex technology may have a decidedly lesser coincedent subset than many here assume. An MIT student has already gone to all the trouble of recovering the key and explaining how to use it. He published a REALLY complete document on how he recovered the key and how it could be used and included the fact that if the key is changed, the architecture is such that it could be recovered again. While he doesnt actually give the key (he was discouraged from doing so after discussing his paper with M$), it would seem the measures needed would cost MUCH less than 100K for someone motivated. You can find your holy grail here: http://web.mit.edu/bunnie/www/proj/anatak/AIM-2002 -008.pdf
Saw that coming the nanosecond they announced it. M$ has far too much money tied up in this to allow anyone to crack it. DMCA was written to prevent this kind of action, for good or ill.
- Play Microsoft licensed XBox game titles.
- Play DVDs (with the DVD remote)
- Play audio CDs.
That's it. That's all it does (without hacking it). You want to run Linux ion it? You really should have bought a PC and saved the money you just wasted.XBoxes are NOT PCs (and I know it uses an Intel CPU, a nVidia GPU, an IDE HDD and DVD, that doesn't make it a PC, get over it). They come with very limited licesnses. You don't like the license, don't but the damned thing! Jebus!
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
...the key was just something obvious along the lines of "All work and no play makes Bill a dull boy" repeated until the bit count was reached.
Whatever, is anyone really surprised over the outcome of this? That/B would really surprise me...
+++ath0
Now, they can say they would have broken it if if wasn't so scary to try.
Otherwise, they would have to admit it would have taken them forty-leven trillion centons just to try out the easy combinations like "haxorz begone", before moving on to the non-alphabetic "hard" ones.
Statatistics[sic] aside, people still win the lottery.
Say we're talking about a state lottery, picking six numbers out of forty-four for the jackpot. That's about seven million possibilities, call that k. Thus, the probability of any one randomly-selected ticket being the winning one is 1/k, which we'll call p.
The probability of at least one ticket hitting the jackpot, with n tickets sold, is 1-(1-p)^n.
One million tickets sold: 13.2% chance of a winner.
Five million: 50.7% chance of a winner.
Ten million: 75.7% chance of a winner.
Twenty million: 94.1% chance of a winner.
These numbers are pretty plausible for a state lottery. To sum up: The chance of you winning the lottery is microscopic. The chance of someone winning the lottery is plausible, and even likely.
(Note that if, for instance, the jackpot is above about seven and a half million dollars, and usually only a million tickets are sold at $1 each, it makes sense to buy all seven million possible combinations. (The expected return value on the investment is greater than zero.) I'm told the Mafia used to do this in New Jersey.)
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Why can't anyone at slashdot proofread what they post, and also just generally be informed about the topic at hand? It's Xbox, not X-Box!!!!! Jesus. A few months ago they were writing about Intel's Xenon processor. Look, it's Xeon!!! I'm not asking you guys to be as smart as me, but can you please try???? You're running a professional website, try to act like it.
Get thee behind me Satan! This is _NOT_ a professional website.
Or maybe someone with a clue pointed out to them that it would take greater than the lifetime of the Universe and require more disk space than currently exists?
-----
PGP Key ID 0xCB8FF658
See your lawyer first
There were some cries on the Xbox-Linux-devel mailing list last year saying that was illegal, and cracking the Xbox code won't do any good, since M$ can just pick up such codes and try to stop them (In most cases, If someone cracks it, M$ will start making fixed XBox's in days).
Michael Stien has documented Possible Security attacks for the Xbox. A interesting read.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I would have thought that they would have been targeted by the lawyers in a matter of minutes after announcing something as blatent as this..
This is just the beginning people, hold on to your hats.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Can't someone just analyze an X-Box disc that already has the code on it? Or copy the first however many bits on the DVD and program new games from there?
Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
Reminds me of a great classic AOL joke:
"Did you hear what happens if you play an AOL CD backwards? It has satanic messages. But it's even worse if you play it fowards:
it installs AOL"
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
kind of thinkers that think marking the outside rim with a black marker will make music sound better on a CD.
no, I'm not talking about the copy protection stuff.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It would be nice to be able to run Xbox Linux without a modchip, which was to my understanding the whole scope of the project, but Microsoft would loose alot if the key was actually found. Don't take me the wrong way, I'm not trying to defend Microsoft in any way or argue the legality on either side. But, the simple truth is that the XBox Challenge was doomed from the start, given the circumstances. Moreover, if the project stayed it would take so long to actually crack the key, that by the time it would be found the Xbox would most likely be obsolete.
--
Adobe's anti-counterfeiting softw
Well...Let's see what you do when you mod a Car, and what exactly happens when you do that.
You put Biturbos - put more air into the engine - you void your warranty
You put Intercoolers - put cooler, compressed air into the engine - Void your warranty
You put raised suspension - make the car ride differently than the manufacturer intended - Void your warranty
So...no matter what mod you do...you always 'VOID YOUR WARRANTY'......and now...remember...if you choose to actually modify an engine managment system done by Ferrari to generate 200 more horses, and try selling it, and they have it patented.....they will sue your ass for the IPR of it, and they will win.
So boy...cars aren't much different...so when you say that 'MODDING' to do something the company that made it never intended to do was legal, think again.....it never was..never will be...It is just 'ACCEPTED' in the sporty spirit of the car companies cause it does't cause them to loose any money when you do it....
Whereas....come on...let's be fair...X-Box modders who do it for the sole purpose of using pirated shit (which, a fact, 99% of them do) do cost the game companies..and Microsft...money....
So Microsoft isn't going to sit back and take it...they're going to go after those who want to harm their profits...
As for running Linux on XBOX...try make a 'Public Request' to Microsoft....on the lines of the Sony PS2 Linux kit....and they might agree to help the community out with that...You never know...
I'm sure it will help them in their 'court battle'..
Somebody else posted this code as the public key:
8 1512491823325275367\7 2136090488973662885\4 3623272112620364581\6 7903825810597884676\2 8484532375726579806\8 2736619960338101994\6 9923672820142531423\4 6551928328834053889\
4088182880916853059137581913995608598938002057493
0039983761093737657581366182343713202836930092873
0749520857823194202487813723528152916611964727295
9171026696185476725881661520618870348904749297323
0087066526446068063036669029649449808811769388271
8929812355659309066834995984837573709896681023340
5191141043929531602040535969832136417728387196095
1154135179174732484135445198324775093884596742040
03252731381538715925250854987565463644
It would seem that if this is in fact the public key, solving for the private key shouldn't require that much work... but what the hell do I know, I only had a minor in Math...
404 File Not Found
The requested URL (sig) was not found.
Two reasons:
1) You don't actually OWN the software: if you read the ageement, you are LEASING the software from the company. So, it'd be like tinkering with a leased car.
2) After you and your buddy finished making your mods to your car, you can't press a button and create thousands of identical copies for each of your friends and their friends, thereby bypassing the auto manufacturer's intended design, let alone the lost sales.
--I'll give ya an Ok on that, both valid. Analogies can be flawed, it was the easiest quickest I could think of. In cars, the big companies are proud to have their corporate stickers on the modders machines. This doesn't happen with computer hardware and software very much, they throw a hissy fit and want you to "not do that" in most cases. they go way out of their way to lobby to make it illegal as much as possible. Can we agree on that as being a valid and generic point as well?
The alternative in software is mandated by law closed source, you ain't messing with it, OR, create millions of criminals, people who want to change or alter or use in a different way software that isn't under any of the various freeware licenses. Well, we can see how effective that is.
As to eulas in general, the ones from your favorite cast of characters, my point is still valid, a very lucrative market that is still allowed to be sold without any sort of useability warranty, and a lot of hassle if you plain don't like it or it doesn't work as the implied advertising indicates and you wish to return it. It's "possible" but they certainly make it hard to do and isn't usually. It's a bogus lawyerese gobbledegook get out of jail free card. It's fairly unique in consumer products as well, I honestly can't think of any other mass produced consumer products out there that are allowed to be sold with such absurd features in them.
ok, here goes, YAA a yet another anology! bigfun!
an appliance eula following closed source software eulas
"hi, welcome to your new Acme toaster! this toaster carries no guarantee it will actually toast slices of bread. Although it looks like a toaster and has two slots in the top and we got a picture of a nice plate of hot buttered toast on the box, your bread may not fit and the toaster itself might not heat up,and it might even catch fire and torch your house down, but well, caveat emptor and stuff, but our cousin leroy seemed to hint that once in awhile he got some toast out of his. By reading this agreement and clicking here and plugging it in, you agree that you may or may not get toast out of this thing, and even if you don't, you are not allowed to open the thing up and see why not, and if you want to return it, you must jump through these various hoops and most likely you'll get told "no" most of the time. If you need assistance, you have to call this expensive phone number, hang on hold for a few hours, then get told to replug your toaster back in as you are probably not using it correctly, because no way would the toaster not work, it's your fault, that'll be 2.99$ a minute thankew
p.s. also by clicking here and having this toaster in your kitchen, you agree that any of our representatives can come into your kitchen and look around whenever we feel like it, and maybe rearrange your cupboards or if we feel like it dump your milk on the floor. maybe in the future we might change your doorlocks as well, you'll find out when we tell you. buh bye, and hope you enjoy your new Acme toaster"
or some such noise.
thoroughly bogus, and please, don't tell me most eulas aren't written like that.
"You're 400 pounds and you have a keychain with a rape whistle? I have half a mind to rape you on principle. HLBLBL "
This is the least intelligent signature I have ever read. Most rapes that occur have nothing to do with sexual attraction and everything to do with the rapist trying to feel powerful over his victim. Not only does your signature show how ignorant you are but it also shows that you are a wretched asshole. Perhaps your mother will be raped someday soon and then we'll see if you still think it's a funny topic to joke around about. You're a piece of shit without any value whatsoever.
True, but there's where the analogy breaks down. I keep seeing conflicting reports about the size of the problem space in question, but it seems to be utterly enormous. Even if the keyspace is searched in a non-overlapping way (e.g., if no two people get the same lottery ticket), it's still orders of magnitude too vast to be cracked, even on a distributed network, even with Moore's law, even with the cleverest algorithms we have.
Like I said, I'm vague about the problem's true size. But "enough participants" here would be more than the number of atoms in the planet...
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Let's say, I buy a quarter-pounder at McDonalds or a Double Whopper at Burger King, then I am not allowed to put some of my selfmade chilisauce on it?
"I assure you the thought never even crossed my mind, lord."
"Indeed? Then if I were you I'd sue my face for slander."
-- Terry Pratchett, "The Colour of Magic"
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