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California Consumers Settle MS Antitrust Suit
lseltzer writes "According to AP, $1.1B in Microsoft products will go to California consumers to settle antitrust claims against the company. I bet the lawyers don't get paid in software." Actually, the article says that those who apply for some of the settlement will receive "vouchers redeemable for any manufacturer's computer-related products and software."
I'm getting my "vouchers redeemable for any manufacturer's computer-related products and software" made out for an Origin 3000.
In mathematics, one does not understand things, one merely gets used to them.
--VonNeumann
Does no one realize that this ammount of retail cost to Microsoft is pennies in production cost? They're losing virtually nothing in this and it is a complete failure of the political system to prosecute them.
And why doesn't MS have to pay real ca$h damages? What kind of hardship is this settlement? $1.1 billion in software is like $100K in media, boxes and shrink wrap. This is punishment in what way?
I am the very model of a modern major general!
Slap on the wrist to Microsoft, really, the only hope we have of Microsoft being truely persecuted lies in the hands of the European courts.
In college, really poor, need a flatscreen.
"proceeds of the settlement will be distributed to members of the class in the form of vouchers redeemable for ANY manufacturer's computer-related products and software."
notice the word 'any'
"Though the face value of the settlement is $1.1 billion, the actual amount will depend on number of consumers who claim, according to Microsoft lawyers."
How likely is it that enough businesses and consumers will actually make a claim to seriously impact M$? Sadly, not very.
Any other Cali residents should take this as a great opportunity and use their vouchers like I am...to buy a lot of free softwa...err damn...maybe i can buy a game with it
Is have microsoft come in and tune-up the state's computers, install some linux, *nix, etc servers where necessary or applicable, hook them up with some free W3C-compliant (no MS specific html) government websites instead of giving out vouchers to keep people hooked on their overpriced crap.
Why yes I am paranoid! Thanks for asking!
$1.1B in Microsoft products
What's that... a few hundred boxes of MS Office?
"And in other news, the ACME toxic waste company has agreed to settle its lawsuits by giving out $1.1Billion in ACME brand toxic sludge, or vouchers good for any other brand of toxic waste.
Settlements of this sort have zero punitive effect on the defendant. I've received settlements of this sort from NEC, Intel, Iomega, and others. What were the "vouchers" typically? $10 off coupons for my next purchase from the company. The company would still profit from the purchase anyway, assuming I actually made use of the coupons, which I never did. And I doubt most consumers do either. In Microsoft's case, the worst thing that would happen is that they would have to produce a few extra CDs and sell them for a few bucks off. What a rip off!
I am not sure if the Windows ME and Windows NT which came with my desktop and server is refundable...
I am pretty sure that most of their money is made on their crappy OS which I was forced to pay when I purchased my hardware to run BeOS and Linux...
They have so much money so, $1.1 Billion dollar penalty is a drop in the bucket. Let say that parking ticket in the town was $30 per violation.
If illegal parking brings $110 profit because there were no other competitors which knows town officials well enough..and had money to pay off violation.. they still make $80 profit... as long as they make profit...they will ignore the rules and regulations which normal businesses are bound to...
This is really sad...
Well... now we have a tax cut for riches to worry about.
Today, we have this settlement, which allows consumers to claim a voucher. We also have a request by California Gov. Davis to cut funding to social services and education, as well as to increase state income taxes. Consumers should be allowed to settle their increased tax bill by handing over their settlement voucher to the California government, in exchange for a guarantee that the voucher would be used to purchase computer technology equipment and other educational resources for state schools. Perhaps also the California government should be awarded any unclaimed consumer vouchers after a certain (short) settlement period. This way, schools would be able to purchase whatever resources best fit their needs (instead of having free Microsoft products handed to them), and some of the sting of the increased taxes could be reduced.
Just a thought...
sig my booty, check my website
I'm just trying to get a grasp on what the real financial impact is here (and whether if it is really a penalty)
great, earlier today I got to fraudulently make the RIAA give me money, now I get to do the same to microsoft. It's really shaping up to be a wonderful day.
Someone please explain this to me: why is it that the states can accept this settlement, which costs Microsoft NOTHING (aside from lost sales, yadda yadda), and actually bolsters their position by spreading their law-breaking product around, but they won't allow tobacco companies to do the same and distribute a quarter billion packs around the table? I mean, which is a bigger cancer stick, seriously?
Law's don't change when you settle a suit. You just get money. Now, if you were to actually go through with it...the potential damage in law would do exponentially more damage to Microsoft than a drop-in-the-bucket lump sum of cash value.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
How can anyone let this happen? The resolution is to provide software to the retail value of $1.1B, but the cost to the convicted is that of producing the CDs and boxes that accompany the product. I thought the damages were meant to punish the convicted, as much as compensate the victims. A convicted monopolist is allowed to pay the damages by providing more of the software which has been deemed anti-competitive by the very same courts. Apart from vague 'because it's Microsoft' comments, can anyone please enlighten someone from outside the US as to why?
..k
The Mothership
This is almost as silly as forcing drug lords to give away vouchers for free drugs. Not quite that bad, but similar effect.
California: "Microsoft, we are going to sue you because you use unfair business practices by giving away your product to destroy your competition!"
Microsoft: "As a punishment, you should make us give away our products. That will teach us!"
California: "Sounds good to me!"
DOH!!!
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The story is a dupe, the topic is boring, the facts weren't checked. WE GET IT!!
As some have already noted, the actual wording is that the vouchers are good for ANY computer product. I propose that people use these vouchers to fund your favorite linux distribution or open source group. Let's use Microsoft's money to fund their competetion.
There's no sig like SIGSEG
How about if the entire microsoft headquarters was set ablaze and all the states attorney generals got to roast marshmallows on the remains? Of course not we all would think that was "unfair".
BUT MS having to give 1.2 billion dollars to the people of California, that's just not good enough.
So here's the question for all of you who think that this "isn't enough". What is enough? I'm meerly trying to spark discussion here, not put anyone down. I would really like to know what people think should be the punishment of microsoft.
Weigh in the amount of damage they've done, business lost and lives lost. Information stifled to just being at the right place at the right time. Explotation of the weak, or creating a market where there was none. I really want to know what the slashdot community thinks.
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
How does one actually qualify to make a claim for a voucher, especially if you double or triple purchased a Microsoft license. Most companies have a hard time just knowing what their current licensed products are, not to mention knowing how much they are eligible to claim going back to 1995. I can just imagine the helpline: "okay let the BSA do an audit and they'll tell you what we owe you (er, you owe us!)".
And did anybody else catch that of the unclaimed refunds schools get 1/3, and of that amount half will be for vouchers of MS products only.
So To Punish them for using there monopoly.
they are going to force an expansion of there monopoly.
good work guys
--meh--
"Vouchers for some, little American flags for others."
Man, with one of these vouchers and my RIAA settlement check, ya think I can buy one of those cool transdermal food patches from ThinkGeek?
Does it make a difference? I'm sitting here running Debian and listing to Rambling Jack Elliot does Woody Guthrie. What can Microsoft do to intrude on my mood?
This costs Microsoft less than three cents on the dollar of their approximate $40 billlion cash on hand - which they don't bother to pay as dividends to their stockholders either.
Microsoft must be laughing their asses off. They've got a world economy nearly dependent upon them, and they will go on doing exactly as they please, admitting no wrongdoing.
If I were Grey Davis, I'd have told Bill "settle" Lockyer (CA state AG) to help balance the state budget by trying to get a few extra billion outta Microsoft's war chest.
But then again, I'm not Grey Davis - I have ethics and accountability.
If you think this is bad... ...Their first offer was to port the "dancing paperclip" to FreeBSD, Linux, and Solaris.
-- Terry
And a link to the article
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
Wouldn't it be appropriate to use as many as possible of these vouchers for a purchase from FSF? Perhaps the FSF could make some sort of micro-edition of Gnu software to be bought for download (i.e. minimal cost for FSF)?
The certificates are good for any software or computer hardware, not just Microsoft's.
That comment was moderated "redundant" because there's no way to mod something "retarded". (No, it wasn't me, but I can sure sympathize. Learn to read.)
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
"Prosecuted"
Microsoft gets persecuted all the time, right here on Slashdot.
Information doesn't want to be anthropomorphized anymore.
Yes it would appear a few of us missed the fact that the vouchers could be used for any computer related product. However, there is a potential weasle-clause in there.
"Two-thirds of any unclaimed settlement proceeds will be donated to California's most needy public schools in the form of Microsoft educational and productivity software..."
Let's hope everyone who is entitled to really does make their claim. Any one know how likely that is?
Otherwise, the Monopoly will simply extend itself into the need public schools "in the form of Microsoft educational and productivity software", and we don't want that now, do we?
$25/$0 =
Divide by zero error. Post terminated.
Read reviews of shopping cart software
1. Break up company into separate companies (OS, Office, Internet). Separate companies have non conflict of interest and independant boards and management.
2. Disgourge majority of company profits realized over the monopoly period. Disgourged profits used to fund public education (not computer specific education, but math and science education via books and teachers)
3. Open all MS undocumented APIs (both recent and historic), and open all MS file formats. Let the spin off companies keep thier *coughccough* great source code.
4. Rule that all MS spin off companies can not finance any political campaigns or lobby groups. In fact, let's just eliminate soft money in the US altogether from any company!
Those four are starter points of what I think "is enough" for the bit bully of our day.
Real men don't need signitures!!!
"those who apply for some of the settlement will receive "vouchers redeemable for any manufacturer's computer-related products and software" Let's see...a few million $ for the lawyers and a bunch of cardboard and polyethelene (shrink wrap) for the rest of us.... Sounds fair to me!
As a professional programmer, I refuse to let someone else's politics dictate how I feed my family
what are you really trying to say with that one?
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
I'm sure IBM will give you a $10 discout on an AS/400 should you produce the voucher.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
I think it should be the duty of everyone in California to use this opportunity to inflict the maximum financial damage against Microsoft. Maybe we need more details of the settlement to determine how this will be done. I have a few thoughts on it so far.
1. We MUST not let any of these funds go unclaimed. Don't forget to file your claim. Tell all your friends. Tell your friends to tell their friends.
2. Don't treat this voucher as a freebee. Only use it to purchase software that you would have purchased had you not received a voucher in the first place.
3. If you absolutely must purchase a Microsoft product, be sure and use it for something like an Xbox or something that has a high per unit production cost, not software licenses.
4. Use it to purchase software from direct Microsoft competitors.
5. If they are allowed to redeem it for cash, donate your voucher to an organization that creates free software, such as the FSF.
I hope others of you out there will have some suggestions as well.
-- Knowledge shared is power lost. -- Aleister Crowley
I was trying to find stories about counterfeit mice but I could only find stuff about that here and here
but
This story is much better
A Seattle jury called it misappropriation of trade secrets and last month [Dec 2001] awarded a $16.5 million in damages to Fernando Falcon and Federico Gilligan.
The Argentine inventors Falcon and Gilligan invented a computer mouse that allowed concurrent pointing and scrolling. They showed their work in 1993 to KeyTronicEMS, a computer electronics manufacturer in Spokane, Wash., and helped the company build two prototypes. Together they planned to take the mouse to market.
At the time, KeyTronic was struggling to overcome an $8 million loss and hoping to land a lucrative contract making keyboards for Microsoft Corp.
KeyTronic's then-director of research and development, Charles Fauble, assured Falcon and Gilligan that he would show the mice to Microsoft developers at a December 1993 business meeting. That was the last time anyone remembers seeing the devices.
KeyTronic couldn't explain in court how it lost the devices, and Microsoft couldn't explain how the inventors' technology wound up in its Intellimouse, which hit store shelves in 1996.
Here's what was clear: KeyTronic scored a $160 million keyboard contract from Microsoft, and Microsoft raked in roughly $650 million from one of the best selling mouse products of all time.
Vickrey said there was no evidence that Microsoft knew it was getting Falcon and Gilligan's confidential technology.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
For instance, would it be feasable for me to mail my licenses/software to a cali resident, for them to claim a voucher? how does that work?
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Hopefully the lawyers will get paid with copies of Microsoft Bob.
The classic example of Anti-Trust is Kodak creating a new type of battery for it's cameras. If Kodak can't show that there is any advantage to the consumer and that the only purpose to creating an camera incompatible with existing accepted battery standards is to limit consumer choice then they are in violation of Anti-Trust laws for forcing the sale of Kodak batteries as part of buying Kodak cameras.
Xbox software key signing is part of the anti-piracy system. For a large part, that means that key signing is for the benefit of MicroSoft and possibly other game publishers, not the customers that purchase the console. MicroSoft may be able to show that other game publishers would be unwilling to produce games for the Xbox if the key signing anti-piracy system was not in place. However, history has shown that even when game publishers are aware of methods of piracy for game consoles they continue to publish games for that console anyways. Also, it has been shown that the key signing part of the anti-piracy system has not been effective in stopping the creation of mod-chips for the Xbox. So, it is even debate-able how effective a benefit key signing is to other publishers of Xbox content. Hence, the only thing that key signing has been effective against is artifically forcing software, a "'plug-in' component that 'powers' what the Xbox does," to be only available if it has been signed by a single source (MicroSoft). In several ways, I think the Xbox signed software mirrors the Anti-trust issues created by Kodak creating a camera that requires a special type of battery.
Californa courts have shown themselves willing to enforce anti-trust law, even against the US big giant. Rather than working on silly attempts to "crack" the 2048 bit key, why not get some lawyers to "ask" for the private key. Can MS prove that there is a benefit (directly or indirectly) to the consumer that every piece of software that loads on the Xbox is signed by MS?
Governments and politicians have proven to be quite ineffective (what did the "Monopoly" status get us?), so we need to react as consumers, and we need to STOP BUYING MICROSOFT PRODUCTS!.
Microsoft has said that their bread and butter is Windows and Office, so above all else, those two products should be avoided. ... now I understand that they are difficult ones to avoid, but lets face it... the government can't do anything, so what are you going to do?
Of course, how much does it actually COST microsoft to stamp out $1.1B "worth" of software? A full copy of office is what, $750? It costs them what, $5 to package it?
Microsoft gets to write of $1.1B in losses, but it only costs them about $1.5MILLION to do it. That's going to be great for shareholder value!
Plus, they'll probably book $50 per copy for support at one point or another.. So this is just another great money-making scheme that is good for M$ and BAD for consumers.
What Microsoft should be forced to do is buy each and every californian a nice retail packaged copy of RedHat with OpenOffice, along with 4 hours of RedHat phone support and a decent linux book for newbies (if there exists such a thing).
That would teach M$ a lesson. This settlement will actually turn out to be very profitable for them.
"We can't give you your money back sir. We can only give you in-store credit. [I understand we sold you a piece of shit. But our policy is to screw the customer. You can only receive credit to buy more shit.]"
I know it's happened to me at various stores.
There is no penalty here. Microsoft will get all the money back that they settled on.
I am pretty sure that most of their money is made on their crappy OS which I was forced to pay when I purchased my hardware to run BeOS and Linux...
If somebody forced you to buy something, you should go to the police. That's assault and possibly battery. Because after all, somebody held a gun to your head and forced you to buy the particular computers you did, right?
So, Microsoft is found to have unfairly leveraged their monopoly, so the request is: "Um, hey, can we have some more of that software 'ya got there? It's just the best darn thing we could thing we could use."
Just imagine if this form of punishment were applied to other organizations acting in a criminal manner:
A mob being asked to offer it's "protection services" at no cost for one year.
Politicians found to have taken bribes being asked to serve without their official pay for the remainder of their term.
A drug cartel being asked to provide half it's crop to the state for free the next year.
A corporate polluter punished by being forced to create more product next year.
Ryan Fenton
I haven't bought any Microsoft shrink-wrapped products but have bought several new computers with Windows preinstalled. I never tried returning the stuff, Windows Refund Day notwithstanding. Can I get some vouchers?
MS is not giving California up to $1.1 billion in MS software, it is giving California residents up to $1.1 billion in coupons that can be redeemed against any software/hardware manufactuer's products.
/. reader.
Reaction to this little piece says something about the attention span of the average
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
I was in California and bought Microsoft Office when I was there. Since this purchase was made in California, could I get part of this even though I reside in Texas? Was I a 'California' consumer at the time of purchase?
I can't tell you how sickened I am by all this. First I read what has happened then I read people here arguing about what kinds of things people should buy with these vouchers.
The problem is that THIS IS NOT A SOLUTION. Microsoft violates anti-trust laws as a matter of standard operating proceedure, and a slap on the wrist is all they get? Nothing is done to remedy the problem of their ill-gotten market position. A billion dollars is chump change to them when it is a one time "fine," Even if the "fine" were ten billion dollars, how long will it take them to recoup it due to their ill gotten market position?
This is just a bunch of sick bullshit that California has agreed to so they wouldn't go home completely empty handed.
Am I the only person who sees this?
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
So you're telling me that the punishment for acting like a monopoly is for Microsoft to freely distribute its software, thus proliforating its monopoly even further?
I think Microsoft won this round.
The kicker is, however, $1bn is about as much as Toshiba had to pay for shipping supposedly defective floppy disk drives on their laptops.
I think this is absolutely evil. Even if Microsoft had to pay everything in cash, it would be peanuts. Instead, they'll be able to further contaminate schools with their proprietary software, something they have already volunteered to do as a "donation"--a tax sheltered marketing ploy.
It's common in these kinds of settlements for manufacturers to give vouchers for their own products. This is likely no different: you can probably use the vouchers to buy Microsoft software and hardware running Microsoft software. Non-redeemed vouchers will be given as 1/3 in Microsoft software and 1/3 in hardware (presumably, PCs running Microsoft software) to schools.
Even $1.1 billion in cash would be a slap on the wrist. This "settlement" is an insult: it's a marketing promotion for Microsoft and a means by which they can get more of their software into the education market.
Microsoft raises the price of all of it's products on sale in California to $1.2 Billion dollars.
~ kjrose
So you and three buddies formed a startup company in 1998 and bought some Microsoft software for your startup. In 2001, when you finally realized you weren't going to make any money selling used AOL CDs over the web, you dissolved the corporation. So technically, the purchaser no longer exists. Can you still file a claim?
(I guess the same issue exists if you are deceased, but then you probably don't care quite as much about getting your voucher.)
He looked at me and said, "Kid, we don't like your kind, and we're gonna send your fingerprints off to Washington."
Law's don't change when you settle a suit.
A "settlement" in legalese means that the parties drop the charges and agree to a private contract. On the other hand, the "settlement" in the federal antitrust case against Microsoft wasn't a true settlement but rather a judgment. Judgments do create legal precedent.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I submitted this same story 12 hours before slashdot posted it, and it was rejected.
Repeal the DMCA!