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US Military Uses Spam, Internet Explorer
chundo writes "CNN reports that the United States government has been secretly encouraging the defection of senior Iraqi officials via email. Iraq is responding by shutting down some of their internet gateways to prevent these emails from getting through, forcing the US to find alternate means to deliver the message. Maybe they should have enlisted this guy - emails from him keep showing up in my inbox no matter what I do." This story about the growing military network bandwidth crunch shows the U.S. military trying hard to get every soldier online, all the time.
Not 72 virgins I hope.
I'm with you, I don't have a clue what Internet Explorer has to do with this story.
RE: Pictures of Alah! Download now!
RE: Make money selling burkas from your home.
RE: Gain weight now!
To: saddam@iraq.com
Subj: Hot Iraqi Women in your Email!
You have credit problms? Is you penis to small? Well you hav win $1,000,00 million dollars! Click here to claim you prize mony and send a nuke your way.
I'm the Devil the Windows users warned you about.
So with all the spam, now the Iraqui leaders get a chance to help all those Nigerians get money out of the country. I bet they also have 12 inch penises, have overcome hairloss, and have lost 10 pounds just this past week. What are we trying to do...create a race of wealthy, well hung, rich guys to fight against?
want to add 3-5 cm to your penis length? defect now to obtain the super male enhancing pills
I have inherited 5milion dollars and we can split it, all is needed is the transfer fee and for you to defect... profit!
Nothing, as far as I can see. Doesn't really have anything to do with spam, either, in any meaningful sense, unless "spam" now means any large-scale use of email. The CNN article saysIf you ask me, this is a great idea.
I write in my journal
"All you need is Internet Explorer," says Doug Barton, the director of technology for Lockheed Martin Mission Systems, based in Gaithersburg, Md.
The "bandwidth crunch link".
You should be watching the United States (Symbol USA). Now is a HOT TIME to defect. Don't let this oportunity pass you by, defect today!
"Entropy is the bad-guy, and he is everywhere"
I don't know about your email servers, but don't you go under the assumption that your email is being read by your ISP, or your boss?
How does the US expect their defectors to reply to the offers? They can't very well send them by email for fear of being nabbed. Maybe they tell them to draw a big 'V' in the ground so the spy satellites can see that they want to vacate Iraq?
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Mr. IRAQI PERSON,
You MAY be SURPRISED to receive this, but THE OFFICE GIRL said that you were a most TRUSTWORTHY PERSON. I beg you Forgive me for contacting you without prior contacting your office, but I am looking for a WORTHY business PARTNER to donate the sum of USD 124.5 million dollars. I am the son of the FORMER president of the U.S.A GEORGE BUSH who initiated a MILITARY CAMPAIGN in 1991. During this campaign, we discovered HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of DOLLARS stolen from THE REBELS. OUR economy is IN TROUBLE and we MUST get this MONEY overseas before the people DISCOVER it. We will gladly be willing to pay you the SUM of 26 MILLION DOLLARS for ASSISTING US. I pray to GOD that you will HELP US get this MONEY out of the country. ALL we need FROM you is your PASSPORT and SIGNATURE which you can fax to me or my colleauges to initiate the transfer of the MILLIONS of dollars. I remain your most humble SERVANT, and PRAY that you will be OUR SAVIOR.
SINCERELY,
MR. PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH
There is no sig, there is only Zuul.
Iraq has no diplomatic relations with Nigeria.
"shows the U.S. military trying hard to get every soldier online, all the time."
Do they really need to be playing CounterStrike in the gulf *war*?
Try sharing 256K over an encrypted up and down link through microwave radios to satellite throughout your 100+ user network. Don't forget the Marine Corps only uses NT 4.0 servers and Internet Explorer. Then watch some idiots who claim they NEED their LAN drops install AIM and Kazaa and forward a money making scheme from "Bill Gates" to your whole network and kick your Exchange server's ass in the process.
Then fantasize about your Linux boxes at home as you try to salvage some idiot officer's "important files" from his Outlook virus infested brand new Dell laptop that he didn't deserve and no one loaded Norton on since he took it home every night and "was too busy" to let some enlisted IT guy fix w/ our standard program load.
Can you tell I'm not looking forward to deploying?
This guy is way out there
rather near the border of cuba, america has radio brodcasts of pro-america (capitalism, democracy, etc) and anti-castro (cuba, communist, socialist, etc) propoganda including all sorts of subversive songs and talk, all illegal to broadcast in cuba. the stations are rather popular, too.
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
What I think really happened was a 12 year old kid hacked the Pentagon computers again and wanted to use all that technology to make some money, BUT at the same time, be patriotic. So what'd he do? Spam. He's getting 5 cents a click on the "Defect to USA" and "Fuck Saddam" pages AND he's dicking with Iraq.
(FwooshSpinSpinSpinGargle) -- the sound of my karma as I click the Submit button)
Sig & Below
Yuck Fou
--
"we live in a post-ideological world..." - Billy Bragg.
I get spam from the military all the time. Ever since they got a list of names in high school I receive emails and snail mail letters encouraging me to "Join the ROTC", "Get Money for College", etc. Now that I'm graduating I get "Become an Officer in the US Military" letters. I guess if marketing is aggressive enough they won't have to bring back the draft.
sig
"This story about the growing military network bandwidth crunch..."
So slashdoting their servers earlier just might not have been such a good idea...
So they expect Iraqis to take emails seriously of which they cannot verify the source to take action that could cost the lives of themselves and their families. To my understanding, paranoia is very common in Iraq and it's assumed that everybody spies on everybody. Upon receipt of such an email, the likely assumption would be that it came from the government in an attempt to weed out potential defectors.
It's a nice idea, but it again shows a poor understanding of the local situation by the West and most likely little consideration for the lives of exactly those insider people willing to oppose the regime.
Moz.
see a Text Widget
what the hell else will keep out there in trenches? ask any ww2 vet, and he'll tell ya. spam was a major part of the lend/lease program, so you brits should know about that too.
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
No, but large scale use of unsolicited email + hiding the source = spam to me...though it's not UCE cause it's not commercial...
RTFA!!!!
Of course, and I highly suspect it, I may be talking out of my ass. -oqti
But, if the US military is sending public key encryption to Iraqis, doesn't that violate the US Dept of Commerce's commercial encryption export laws?
Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
should have been written as "Is this mainstream America's feelings on the subject?" Which I would have to reply as Yes, with the recent Congressional elections and the Republican victories as my chief piece of evidence.
"All you need is Internet Explorer," says Doug Barton, the director of technology for Lockheed Martin Mission Systems, based in Gaithersburg, Md.
I think it is wrong because they are promoting micrsoft software and x86 hardware as if it was the only alternative out there like many places do, ugh.. Linux R0x0rZ, now give me Karma!
Err ... no. Bush I. chose to retreat from Iraq to have a justification for U.S. troops to remain stationed all over the Middle East. They went there during the Gulf war and never left. As for the press, it was heavily (and voluntarily) censored during that time, virtually all the footage was Army-approved, and in fact provided by the Army.
Anyway, it was expected that Saddam would comply with U.S. interests after his defeat, without having to occupy Iraq and thus remove the need for U.S. 'protection' in the area. After this had proven wrong, the sanctions were put in place. Saddam remained defiant, and that's why the U.S. is heading there again.
Did you know you can fertilize your lawn with used motor oil?
To: centralcommand@us.mil
From: WhiskeyBravo49@iraq.us.mil
Subject: Request Instructions
Priority: High^H^H^H^HCritic^H^H^H^H^HANSWER ME NOW DAMNIT!
We're being shot at. Please advise. Thanks.
Lt. James Parker, USAF
555-555-5555 x555 (M-F 8a-5pm)
Of course, Central Command probably just has an autoreply set up.
Thank you for contacting Central Command. We are experiencing a higher than normal email volume due to the war in Iraq. Please be patient while we get to your email in the order that it was received. Your comments and questions are important to use, and thank you for risking your life for the USA.
*.mil is American. Anyway, the prez's email address is president@whitehouse.gov.
Finaly, Iraq's internet sites would be in *.iq, not iraq.com
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
They're called telephones.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
If the US Military is suffering from a bandwidth crunch, how does the Whitehouse expect the Total Information Awareness network to actually function? Do they still think computers are magic boxes that can do anything?
The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
I do not know your education level, but I would guess you are either young, or have not gone beyond basic primary education. You will eventually learn not to beleive everything you see.
#1 The media does not have access to Allied intelligence. Without access to the solid information that Iraq is a problem, they will publish many stories that are questioning the US position on Iraq simply because it's the only thing they have that is interresting to read.
#2 I live in Japan and my friends here as well as some friends I have in China would all disagree with you. Granted, they all have at least college degrees and have spent enough time studying governement and political science to realize that the situation in Iraq is more than just a personal problem with GW Bush....Iraq's actions have negatively affected the whole region and pose a real threat to the stability of trade in the region. This eventually effects us all as it could provide a chain reaction of rising inflation should those trade routes be disrupted. Inflation that outpaces income growth will widen the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" which could potentially unbalance countries with existing unrest.
It's all about being a responsible citizen of the planet. Iraq has taken the attitude that it should be free to do whatever it wants. Unfortunately, personal freedom can only go so far before it begins to conflict with the freedoms of others. The UN is involved in this for a reason. And lacking all the info myself, I will trust that these educated men and women who represent their countries in the UN have expressed an interrest because they have credible evidence that the problem is real.
I've dirtied my hands writing poetry, for the sake of seduction; that is, for the sake of a useful cause. --Dostoevsky
Now Iraq is going to strike back with suicide email bombers.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
OK, can you point me to some of that "dark fiber" in Kuwait or anywhere the military deploys?
We're talking about tactical networks here, set up out in the field running off of diesel generators and using satellite uplink.
This guy is way out there
Did you think that up all by yourself? Or did your uneducated friends help you out?
Bush has repeatedly said he would not attack North Korea. Bush has no intentions of bombing Iran. Bush said a war with Iraq is to get rid of Saddam's regime, not to bomb the Iraqi people.
You can hate Bush and disagree on a war with Iraq all you want. But next time, read the news. Your ignorant reasons for spreading anti-Americanism doesn't do the world any good.
I would guess that the reason you need Internet Explorer is that the system uses ActiveX controls. ActiveX controls can be wedged into a webpage and they can be programed to do lots of good stuff like open secure sockets to remote hosts and display encrypted information and other goodness. Where Internet Explorer comes in is that it is a vehicle to deliver the ActiveX control to the user. The only trouble I see it that a careless user could easily forget to delete the control off the system and leave it behind on an unfriendly machine for Soviet spys to find and exploit.
Slashdot is an anagram for Has Dolts, and I am Dolt number 468543
I personally would love to see this guy's response to a message from the US government.
(Someone has waaaaay too much time on their hands)
www.clarke.ca
There are still NT workstations everywhere. Especially SPRNET computers.
MY servers are NT. We have not received any more Win2K licenses so we install what we have which is mainly NT. The situation is improving as all of the new computers shipped to us have Win2K on them.
What you see at where you work and what actually goes on in the Fleet Marine Corps are two different animals apparently.
This guy is way out there
since some major research companeis are rating MSIE as unsecure why is the US military using this broswer to depend on its soldiers in launching military strike missions?
Imagine this:
Hacker in Iraq reads acccess hacking information breeding grounds like l)pht.cm, 2600.com and etc than uses flasw in MSIE to prevent a timed US military strike on Iraq..
Scary isn't it?
Don't Tread on OpenSource
I assume that the hardware/software necessary would fall under UN sanctions, which I assume have been in effect since the end of the first
Persian Gulf War. This is pretty curious to me... where does Iraq hook up to the net -- what countries does it peer up with? What's their total bandwidth?
Can private citizens even get on the Internet at all there?
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Whilst the technology changes, using propaganda to sap the enemy's will to fight is as old as warfare itself. A famous (though largely unsuccessful, apparently) attempt at such was Tokyo Rose, one of many female broadcasters on radio Tokyo during World War II who mixed American music with propaganda.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
They watch a lot of "Nick at Nite".
mstyne: real name, no gimmicks
Oh come on, there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The USA has had a massive surveillance operation running for years, they have spy sattelites and planes, and they bugged the phone lines, and they gave their info to the UN inspectors, and the inspectors conducted 250 unannounced surprise raids on those places and still found nothing!
How much more proof do you need that Iraq does not have weapons of mass destruction?
Spamming them may be a good plan to waste enough of their time to delay their progress, but it sure isn't stopping them from using the ones they have now -- because they don't have any!
By the way: read this poll result in Portugal; more than 70% of the population think that the USA is the biggest threat to world peace today. 3% say it's Iraq, 1% say it's China. 12% say it's Israel.
All this warmongering will only make things worse. First of all, it gave North Korea a legitimate excuse to leave the nuclear proliferation treaty. After all, Bush said he will to preventive strikes against his enemies, and he said North Korea is part of the Axis of Evil, so he actually gave North Korea the only good excuse to build more weapons.
Bush should focus on rebuilding the economy he ruined so thoroughly, not on bombing Iraq and alienating Europe. Do you have any idea how frightened the South Koreans must be now, and all of that just because of a few dumb remarks from Mr. Bush?
You haven't heard of telephone monitoring? My goodness even a mother of a teenager knows about that.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
A single axis doesn't need an origin, only some points to define it. Conveniently, nations can function as points in this context.
Also, two axes can be parallel, or even perpendicular but on two discrete and parallel planes. In fact, you can have multiple infinities of axes without ever requiring a single origin!
Next, please.
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
CNN learned about the operation Friday afternoon, and was initially asked not to report on it by senior Bush administration officials. Those officials later decided the information could be released.
Remember, way back in the 70s, this person called Deep Throat that blew the lid off of the Watergate scandal? Whatever happened to hearing information from a reliable source, then actually REPORTING that information without first consulting the government? How about the press being an independant journalistic adventure, instead of some guy pulling stuff off a news wire that's all pre-approved by the government? What about jounalists who actually investigate stories instead spewing back the same BS they heard 10 minutes before? The press here today is no better then that of the so called "restrictive nations" like many Mid East nations, where all news comes from the government approved facilities. If this is how the entire world is going to turn to, then bring on WW3 so we can start rebuilding a better society.
If they ditch Internet Exploder, and use Mozilla, the bandwidth crunch will go away, but there's no such thing as military intelligence.
How ya like dat?
Here, our country is on the brink of war with another nation. The press served the people by ensuring that they were not releasing information that compromised a military operation. They were free to print what they knew, but chose not to do so of their own volition. There was no oppression here.
Both situations involve responsible behavior on the part of the press.
I certainly appreciate the Americans that go to Iraq to become a human shield
I don't know why you would appreciate them, it's the ultimate act of stupidity. Not only is it not going to deter the US, but in a way it "legitimizes" the use of civilians as shields in war.
Or are you going to tell me that the human shields Sadam has used before volunteered for the job?
It's very irresponsible.
- sigs are for wimps.
I can just imagine how that will turn out...
Private: Sarge! We're pinned down by Jerry's on all sides. We're almost out of ammo. We have no medical kits and Private Wilkins is bleeding to death. What do we do!?!
Sarge: We're pulling out. Private Booths, send an instant message to HQ asking for a chopper liftout.
Private: Uhhh, I can't do that Sarge. The PDA is jammed up with these messages for enlarging your penis.
Sarge: Enlarged penis, you say? Must be a new battle technique. Right, men! Everybody flop out your penis and enlarge them. That'll get the Jerry's running scared.
Your shell script will give me twenty.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
She alone could accuse her lover, and destroy him by her confession. She denied; they insisted. She persisted in her denial. Thereupon an idea occurred to the attorney for the crown. He invented an infidelity on the part of the lover, and succeeded, by means of fragments of letters cunningly presented, in persuading the unfortunate woman that she had a rival, and that the man was deceiving her. Thereupon, exasperated by jealousy, she denounced her lover, confessed all, proved all.
this seems to have nothing to do with either the story nor my original post about propoganda.
do you think the investigator was morally correct in lying to get the information he wanted?
it's a fine line and i don't think it is usually justified (like in this case).
btw, the united states supreme court has ruled that it is okay for cops to lie in questioning; "the ends justify the means."
oh, and ianal.
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
When I saw the story, spam and IE, I thought the US was exploiting holes in IE though email. Silly me, the US military is instead trying to use IE to guide bombs, share radars screens and other intelligence. Nice concept they have, to eliminate propriatory interfaces, but they might chose a better platform than MicroSoft. "All you need is Internet Explorer", said some Air Force dude without a clue. I really hope that was an automated product placement advert replacement of "web browser."
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
For all we know he might have sold the bio weapons to Afghanistan or some terrorist state. Who cares? He does not have them any more, unless someone proves him guilty. That is by the way the moral standard most western nations adopt for their own citizen. There is no reason to treat nations any different.
... If we just count the number of lies and deceit, it's not Iraq that needs to be bombed, it's Washington, DC.
You know how long it would take to find biological weapons in the USA? What would you guess? A day? A week? Do you have an idea just how many biological and chemical weapons the USA have?
Oh, I can hear you say, "that does not count!" "We are not using them on our own population!" Actually yes, the USA did test their ABC weapons on their own population. And I'm not only talking about the Anthrax letters (although the "it was a madman acting on his own" defense is always easy. Would you buy it if Saddam used it?).
Would you know whether he sold those bio weapons to the USA? How do you know it hasn't happened? After all, the US government censored the Iraqi weapons papers from 12000 pages to a measly 3500 pages (and now Bush has the chuzpe to claim there is stuff missing! No shit, Sherlock!?). Why would they do that?
There are an awful lot of unanswered questions, and currently most of the smoking guns are in the hands of the US government, not the Iraqis. For example, Bush cited a nonexistant study to "prove" that Iraq is building an A bomb, the fabricated "5 terrorists" that were trying to invade the US through Canada were another recent case,
Oh, and did you know that Saddam asked Bush Sr. for permission before attacking Kuweit? And that Bush Sr. told him that that he considers that an internal matter of the middle east and would not interfere? No? Why do you think you are well informed enough to have an opinion on the matter, then?
Yes, those questions are unpleasant. But they have to be asked; preferably before you start the bombing.
So they expect Iraqis to take emails seriously of which they cannot verify the source to take action that could cost the lives of themselves and their families
Er, these are the people who surrendered to anything that even looked American, including reporters. Let's not overestimate them now ...
It's just a provocation strategy. They're trying
desperately to get the Baath government to do
*something* that can be used as a pretext for a
massive bombing campaign and ground invasion.
If UNMOVIC were to take interviewees to Cyprus
and then not return them to Iraq, it would be
seen for what it is, a U.S. spy agency, and
Hussein might conceivably (yeah, right -- he's
not *that* stupid) slow down his cooperation,
which to this point has been obsequiously
total, and thereby provide the required pretext.
All of this is driven by the Zionist/Oil faction
now in control of U.S. foreign policy: Cheney,
Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle. I think that they
are likely to fail in their efforts this time,
though. If I didn't believe that, I'd be morally
obligated to send them to their judgement, so I'll
stick to that view as long as I can.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
"Seriously", read the part of the article you quoted: "flyboys could hop onto a special Air Force network from any PC equipped with a Web browser and special military encryption and authentication software" Not the Internet, but a closed network. The "from a laptop in a cafe" remark was just someone's lame attempt at being clever, as the parenthetical that follows illustrates: "more likely, at a secured facility". The point the Lockheed Martin guy was trying to make is that they're not using some low quality custom software interface (man, did I see a lot of CRAP like that in the Army) communicating via a proprietary network protocol, as was the tendency in the past. Instead, they're using standard web browsers over TCP/IP. Off the shelf technology, but on a closed network.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
I would say that if the United States was trying to hide them, it would take about 400 years for a team of 10,000 inspectors to find the "smoking gun" type of evidence of biological weapons in the United States. Hell, it'd probably take them at least ten years to find any of the nuclear devices. I bet if they were all moved to Texas, it would take about a year.
Iraq is 432,000 square kilometers. If they have a square kilometer of WMD research and storage facility (which is a lot), then you have 0.00023% of the country where evidence can be found. If you had lost a contact that was 1 square centimeter, this would be like trying to find it in a space of 43 square meters -- with the wind maybe moving it around.
Inspectors have flatly not been on the ground long enough to validate your assertion that there is nothing there. The only places they've had time to search so far are the suspicious sites, sites where the activity was previously. They wouldn't have found anything yet unless it had been deliberately placed. I'll believe that there is nothing in Iraq when Hans Blix says there is nothing there, and not before.
By the way, since you believe what Iraq says about their weapons, do you also believe the inspectors are spies? Because if you do, I'm suspicious of whether you really care what the inspectors say or find (if you don't trust them, after all) and I wonder if you're not just looking for an oppurtunity to make jabs at the US because it's fashionable to do that where you come from.
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
Here are a number of things that had at first confused me.
1) Ranking senators in the intelligence committees saying they had not been shown any further evidence that made them conclude that Iraq had WMD.
2) The Administration's insistance that the group it shares the information with from the UN be *larger* than the current group of inspectors. Larger? WTF? If you want something to be secret you tell as few people as possible. Even the IAEA has mentioned that it would be helpful to them if the US has such informatin that they turn it over to the UN.
3) Ok, so assuming that the Administration knows that their allegations are false, then what? Why pick on Saddam now? His army is far weaker, though better entrenched, than it was in 1991, and the real threats to US forces would likely be post-Saddam ethnic violence.
So why Iraq and why now?
15 of the 9-11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia, and I believe that the Administration feels that probing too closely into any aspect of the Saudi nation or government fundamentally undermines US capability in the Middle East. First we have the fact that they are THE MAJOR source of foreign oil (not a big deal, we could always get it from Russia, or Iraq...), but the bigger issue is not about oil.
We are immensely dependent on two nations in the Middle East for basing rights-- Saudi Arabia and Turkey.
I suspect that the idea is that we can position US bases in a Post Saddam Iraq because, just as we are doing in Afghanistan today, we will continue to create a divisive system which needs some oversight by US troups.
But I think the focus on Iraq is that a
"liberated" (occupied) Iraq would make Saudi Arabia dispensible, and that we would no longer have to pull our punches regarding that regime-- expect it to replace Iraq in Bush's Axis of evil.
In the end, I grudgingly supported operations in Afghanistan because I felt that Al Qaeda was a direct result of US aid to and recruitment for the rebels against the Soviets. But I am deeply concerned that if the US continues to sponsor the various warlords, that the rule of law will not return to Afghanistan, and it will be a place that will end up being the further breeding ground of terrorism. If we turn the middle east into our playground for witch-hunts, we will be encouraging the very thing we claim to be fighting, just as we did in Vietnam.
I will disagree with you though-- the North Korea situation is complicated--
1) North Korea we think was probably restarting their nuclear program in 2000, but only admitted to it more recently. On the other hand, the 1994 framework was supposed to give North Korea fully normalized relations with the US and membership in the world bank. These parts were never implimented, so one could argue that we broke it first (what the hawks think in North Korea, I would bet).
2) The reactor was restarted when we suspended fuel shipment-- this gave them the excuse to restart the reactor because they do need the electricity. When the IAEA complained that the refusal to allow inspectors was a violation of the Nonproliveration Treaty, North Korea withdrew from the treaty.
The unfortunate likely result is that North Korea will go nuclear-- we cannot negotiate with then for fear of encouraging nations, maybe including Iran, Egypt, or Saudi Arabia from starting nuclear programs. And failure to respond diplomatically, will result in North Korea going nuclear. Does this scare me? No-- North Korea has been a very repressive regime, but their policy towards the US has been one of deterrence.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
You sir, are showing your ignorance of the inspection process.
;)
Saying inspectors are unlikely to find anything driving arround is like saying that the FBI is unlikely to find bank robbers by driving arround, visiting banks and looking for them. Sure the statement is correct on the surface, but that is not how the inspectors operate.
The inspectors are detectives-- nuclear, biological, chemical. They are experts at putting information together and checking it out. this is easy with regard to a nuclear weapons program which requires extensive infrastructure components (U236 enrichment plants, breeder reactors, etc.), and much more difficult with chemical or biological (area denial similar in function to land mines rather than massively destructive weapons like nuclear ones). These agents don't require the massive infrastructure, but they lost their combat effectivenenss comparitively quickly. If the gas decomposes, it doesn't make a very good area denial agent.
If I were Saddam, I would have a lot of greenish-colred smoke bombs ready.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Yes, it is very simple to build many forms of WMD. I can definately build a nuke, if you give me enough weapon-grade uranium. Have you noted one of the chief arguments for going to war, well, it was the International Institute for Strategic Studies that said Saddam can build nukes within six months if he obtained weapon-grade uranium. Oh, and every physicist, and every kid with plans to build a breeder reactor goes "oh, so what, so can I", well what does that mean? It doesn't mean that Iraq has nukes. It means that there is something you haven't grasped here, and there is some political agenda they're not telling you about.
Well, basically, the thing is that while it is easy to build nukes, it isn't that easy to survive making them... The weird thing about WMDs is that they are pretty dangerous... They are very, very difficult to control. To use them in combat, you got to know exactly what you're doing, otherwise, you'll probably end up killing more of your own forces than the enemy. Iraq clearly has a lot of experience with chemical weapons, they could use that, so chemical weapons should be the main focus of the inspections. But for nukes to be useful in combat, you would have to have tests, and we would know about those. Iraq is pretty much locked in among other arab nations, the only real target for big WMDs, nukes, for example, are Isreal, but there are lots of Palestinians there. It is very hard to see what incentive Saddam would have for making large WMDs. North-Korea OTOH is a different matter alltogether, they have a very strong incentive for building nukes.
If I were in the US, I would be a lot more concerned about nuclear terrorism than of Saddam possessing nukes. It is far more likely that a group of suicide bombers would lock themselves in a container in a ship going to a US port, assemble the nuke inside the container and set it off in port. No testing, no problems concerning damage on friendly forces, and so on.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
#1 Well, the girlfriend analogy/quoestion is difficault to answer as it would be a matter of trust between to people.
But if US have gathered information with some kind of secret weapon that they don't wan't to disclose, why don't they just tip of the UN inspectors instead of releasing the information themself?
#2 I do agree that trade matters alot and always had, and the Iraq "case" is directly or inderectly influencing millions of people.
But even if we discussed this for days, we prob. wouldn't agree with each other. You mean that trade (and some other Iraq actions) would justify and attack, I don't.
Also see that post that is replying to the same post as I am now. Evaen though he is posting as an AC, he actually has a point.
[sorry for my bad English]
Melius mori in libertate quam vivere in servitute.
By the way, since you believe what Iraq says about their weapons, do you also believe the inspectors are spies?
...) as well. Otherwise it's not fair.
Interesting idea. I have never considered this possibility. Why would anyone want to spy on Iraq, when it is so obvious that they are technologically far behind?
No, I don't think the inspectors are spies. I think they are independent, until there is evidence that says otherwise.
I'm suspicious of whether you really care what the inspectors say or find (if you don't trust them, after all)
What makes you think I don't trust them? I think they are the investigative arm of the UNO. I find it very troubling that there are no weapons inspections in all the other countries with weapons of mass destruction (like USA, UK, Israel, France,
And my opinion here is that we need to give Saddam a real option here. We can still avoid war. So far Saddam has complied with everything, even the most humiliating and degrading stuff. What a sorry dictator he is, I mean look at him! He can't fly around over his own country! Foreigners are conducting unannounced inspections in his industry (what would you say if that happened to industry in your country? I'd shout "industrial espionage!", that's for sure)... If Saddam had a way out, he would take it. He does not care for war. All he wants is rebuild his country. And that's hard enough, given that all the money he makes from the oil he drills out of the earth goes directly to the USA, so how is he supposed to feed his population?
But TRIED to join but was refuse due to a curvature of the spine. But due to an innate ability for langauge, computers, and native intelligence, was given a chance, and in the end I opted out.
Please excuse my reluctance to be convinced by your obvious native intelligence and innate ability for "langauge". ROTFL
When a teen in the US can build a fucking BREEDER REACTOR in a shed in his neighbors yard. YOU ARE TELLING ME IT IS AT ALL NOT POSSIBLE THE IRAQUIS DO NOT HAVE THE CHANCE TO BUILD A FUCKING BOMB?
I see. So you want to punish them not because they HAVE weapons but because they COULD HAVE weapons.
I hate to be the first to break this news to you, but it's not illegal to be able to have weapons. Germany, for example, could have had the A bomb for decades. But we didn't want it. If you bomb every country that could have the A bomb by now, you have to bomb everyone. I suggest, for practical reasons, that we stick to the people who actually have committed crimes, not to those who could conceivably commit them in the future.
Yes, Saddam has commited crimes. And his country was bombed and chained to the ground for that. It is but a pale shadow of its former glory. It is time to end their suffering (in case you haven't thought about this before: all the suffering Iraqis spend their time hating the USA). Rebuild their country and give them a chance to be peers and they will be peers. Oppress them for another decade and you will breed a whole new generation of people who hate the USA.
Asshole
What an impressive display of "innate ability for langauge". I can understand why the US military would give people with your skill set a second chance to be shot in a foreign country so Mr Bush can make more money by relocating jobs to Mexico. After all, it takes the very brightest to not only be cannon fodder for their exploiters, but be proud of it!
Zionist? I'd mod you down on principle, but I've been commenting on this article. As long as you're throwing words around, what exactly is wrong with Zionist thinking? Please explain, if you can. Even though most modern Israelis are'nt Zionist, I'm curious. And no, I'm not Jewish. But I certainly respect their culture, and ability to survive. The oil thing I'll agree is a possible motive, but the whole Zionist reference flags you as a troll of the most obvious variety.
The U.S. military and intelligence officials were apparently hoping that the Iraqis do not realize where the e-mails are coming from.
Although the sig "General Silas T. Bilious, Cheyenne Mountain. All your nukes are belong to us." did rather give it away...
Grab.
Zionism is racism. Israel is conducting a program of
ethnic cleansing. Zionism has motivated a series of
wars of aggression, the gradual genocide of the palestinians,
the repression of Christianity and Islam, the construction
of the world's third largest nuclear arsenal, thousands of
brutal murders, the theft of thousands of homes and businesses,
military attacks on the U.S., the conversion of 1.5 trillion
dollars in U.S. taxpayer funds to the Israeli state. That's
just recent history. Reach back to the days of the Irgun,
and there's horrific terrorism, complicity in the genocide of
the Romanian jews, and who knows *what* that I've never even
heard of.
Iraq holds 12% of the territory of Herzl's greater Israel,
which extends from the Nile to the Euphrates, to Turkey
in the north and deep into the Arabian peninsula.
Iraq is Israel's #2 enemy (according to my accounting, in
which Israel is #1, but certainly Iraq is #1 in the IDF's
accounting). They hit Israel with Scuds in the Gulf War,
Montressor. Israel assassinated Bull because he was building
a long gun in Iraq which could target Israeli territory.
More recently, Iraq hosted Abu Nidal's retirement.
The Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld axis of evil is slavishly
devoted to Israeli interests at the expense of even American
interests, let alone Iraqi, and GWB's conservative evangelical
ideology is putty in their hands. They write Israel a
blank check against the U.S. bank account, without any
attempt to restrain it's brutality and expansionism. That,
my friend, is Zionism of the most virulently malign variety.
A troll is not someone who disagrees with you. A troll is
someone who posts material which is not pertinent or rational
for the purpose of inciting flames. My material is rational
and pertinent to the article that I was responding to.
I have no desire to incite flames, but rather to incite
reflection upon the reality of unpopular truths.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-