Wi-Fi Alliance To Brand Public Hotspots

Andreas Ehn writes "802.11 Planet writes: 'The Wi-Fi Alliance is launching a new program starting today to create a global brand for easier recognition of public access hotspots. The Wi-Fi ZONE program will also include setting a minimum standard of quality for hotspots before they can label themselves a Wi-Fi ZONE or display the ZONE logo.' Read the article here! It won't be cheap, however -- you'll be expected to pay $100 for a license to use the trademark for three access points at one location, though it will be free until March 2004. Or you could just stick to warchalking."

Comments

Or...

[mschoolbus]

Someone make a website that tracks all local access points... I know there are region specific sites out there, but it would be free.

Re:Or...

[filtrs]

You mean like this? Free international listing of public / open wireless internet nodes ...

Re:Or...

[StupidHelpDeskGuy]

Link to a story from the local paper, about the many options available in Downtown Minneapolis. I especially like the comments from the fancy hotel manager. Something to the effect of "this shouldn't be!" At least he is well informed. I am going to get the laptop out and go see what I can find. Sounds like a fun way to kill an afternoon. http://www.startribune.com/stories/789/3585467.htm l

Re:Or...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yawn... already been done

try www.nodedb.com

This hotspot was brought to you by...

[swordboy]

I can see it now... There'll be a little popup in the taskbar that says:

Wireless internet services brought to you by Anheuser-Busch - St Louis, MO

Re:This hotspot was brought to you by...

[mark_lybarger]

presonally, i'd rather have wi-fi brought by Coors, but i'll settle for Budweiser wi-fi.

love quaterback's eatin dirt...
pom pom's and short skirts...
fans who won't quit,
and those twins...
and I love you too---HERE'S TO FOOTBALL!!!

Re:This hotspot was brought to you by...

[Anonymous Coward]

Coors is pisswater and Anheuser-Busch makes Budweiser.

Re:This hotspot was brought to you by...

[matt_wilts]

And I really wouldn't have a problem with that, if it meant I could surf for free.
Matt

It's just advertising

[GlassUser]

They're selling advertising. You pay them to list your "guaranteed quality" node in their database, and it reads back like the yellowpages. Expect the equivalent of full page ads soon.

well, look at it this way

[cerenyx]

if they label all the hotspots, it'll only draw more people to piss there, fart there, graffiti-se the area, and generally use it as a...means to vent frustration.

Where are these things?

[PhysicsGenius]

I'm a reasonably technological person. I run Linux, I have a Mindstorms set, I get DSL. But I have never seen one of these "WiFI hotspot" things. Is it just for the uber-rich, LA/NY tech-set or what?

Re:Where are these things?

[OS2 Dude]

Well, one can also ask how many will we actually see... since the military has already started to complain about the hotspot zones are disturbin their radio equitment....

HotSpot? Not without encryption

[puzzled]

Our friends at Homeland Security view the uncontrolled internet access available via careless WISPs, careless wireless lan operators, and the like as a *major* problem. The telcos want to protect their monopoly so they're onboard with any efforts to squelch the booming wireless market.

I strongly suspect that we'll see legislation about such services before very long and the only cure for the complaint will be solid layer 3 encryption.

I run a WISP that covers five counties in a fairly large metro area and I'm already working this issue - business customers can get an affordable IPsec client like the Linksys firewall for around $100, Windows users have PPTP, and RouterOS from http://www.mikrotik.com provides a solid platform to terminate both sorts of connections.

If these guys are going to do a Hot Spot standard, which *is* needed on a national basis, it had better include a solid L3 encryption method.

Re:HotSpot? Not without encryption

[First_In_Hell]

After that, how long before some group of people start a distributed computing project to crack layer 3 encryption?

It is an endless cycle.

Re:HotSpot? Not without encryption

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, in my area, the dominant WISP (run by a bunch of business majors) uses absolutely NO encryption whatsoever, and no firewalls. They've got some pretty hefty dishes on their roof and you can pick up their signal almost anywhere with a mere 30mW card...which means any corporate traffic is pretty much open for the world to see on their network.

I wonder if their clients are aware...I'm guessing not.

Re:HotSpot? Not without encryption

[ryanvm]

Our friends at Homeland Security view the uncontrolled internet access [...] as a *major* problem.

From your post I have a little trouble figuring out your stance on this. Do you disagree with HomeSec?

Completely anonymous high-speed Internet access *is* dangerous. What prevents some script kiddie from pulling up in his Honda Civic (with a huge spoiler of course) and using a public hotspot to launch every known attack against any site on the Internet?

At least with a cable modem or DSL there is the possibility of digging through log files and turning up an IP address. If he's using a public WiFi point then all you'll get is the WiFi owner's IP and the script kiddie will be long gone.

How do you host a public WiFi hotspot yet avoid being used as a script-kiddie (or spam) portal?

Re:HotSpot? Not without encryption

[Saeger]

How do you run a Cyber Cafe (that takes cash), a Public Library network, an anonymous remailer, an anonymous non-logging proxy, or an insecure home computer running Windows BackOrifice edition, yet avoid being used as a script-kiddie (or spam, or terrorist) portal?

Anonymous wireless access isn't any more or less a "threat" than the same situation in the insecure-by-default, unaccountable wired world.

Hmm... do you also think that those evil anonymous postcards with no return address should be banned too? I mean... what if some scr1ptk1ddie terrorist laced it with acid and you accidentally licked it?! :-)

--

Re:HotSpot? Not without encryption

[ryanvm]

How do you run a Cyber Cafe (that takes cash), a Public Library network

Ideally these systems aren't so insecure that you can run any software you want to on them. Besides, many of them have security cameras installed.

an anonymous remailer, an anonymous non-logging proxy

What the hell kind of damage are you going to do with an email or a web browser?

an insecure home computer running Windows BackOrifice

Any script kiddie toying with home machines still has to exercise some restraint. There's no way of knowing whether or not the FBI is sitting there sniffing your every move.

Anonymous wireless access isn't any more or less a "threat" than the same situation in the insecure-by-default, unaccountable wired world.

Yes it is. Wireless is truly anonymous. Unless the NSA is on the scene triangulating your position, you are 100% anonymous. And with that kind of access you don't have to exercise the slightest bit of restraint.

Do you also think that those evil anonymous postcards with no return address should be banned too? I mean... what if some scr1ptk1ddie terrorist laced it with acid and you accidentally licked it?!

You're a moron. Email me when you get out of high school and we'll continue this discussion.

Re:HotSpot? Not without encryption

[Saeger]

Remind me never to make a drugjoke when talking to a security hardass who's actually afraid of anonymous boogeymen crashing critical systems and bringing down democracy from parkbenches. I'm guessing security is part of your job, in which case you begin to believe your own FUD in order to secure more $ from clients.

Oh, and no, I've long since graduated, but thanks for the insult. I hope to see you first in line for a subdermal id&tracking chip, bud! I'll be the "anonymous terrorist" laughing at you from the sidelines.

--

Re:HotSpot? Not without encryption

[ryanvm]

You're right, my apologies. Nothing like a little pseudo-anonymity to bring out the jerkyness in one.

Anyway, no I'm not in the security field, just a lowly net admin. But the reason I think public WiFi is spooky is because my neighbor has a wide-open access point that I happened to discover by accident.

What is to stop me from sitting in my home, pointing a "cantennae" at his house, and proceeding to gather up an ungodly horde of zombie machines for some massive DoS attack? Nothing. Even the local authorities would have no idea how to track me down.

What keeps me from launching this same attack from my home cable modem? The fact that eventually I'd get discovered and at the very least my ISP would yank my account.

Endorsing scary shit like Carnivore is one thing, but I don't think it's too much to ask that we try not to give completely anonymous Internet access to the public, or if you do limit it to non-dangerous protocols (HTTP, SMTP, etc.).

And again, I apologize for the personal attack.

one word: truck stops (ok, its two :-)

[puzzled]

Geeks want them in coffee shops, but the real growth markets for Hot Spot are airports and ... truck stops! Really - I've been invited to consult on a couple of truck stop projects but haven't done anything - I knew it'd be too big for me to have any serious influence.

Don't laugh - just start counting semis next time you're on the interstate - if you get 1% of all truckers using the service at the 100 busiest truck stops, you've got a winner. Market penetration will likely be more like 50% ...

Re:one word: truck stops (ok, its two :-)

[First_In_Hell]

I have yet to see a coffee shop that has Internet access. People seem to think geeks hang out at coffee shops, this is not true.

The only people who hang out at coffee shops are rich arrogant college morons complete with $300 Tommy Hillfiger shirts, slick hair, and strong cologne getting their mack on to some groupie slut who is impressed by his parent's BMW.

Re:one word: truck stops (ok, its two :-)

[Fjord]

With truck stops, it wouldn't just be personal use. I work on logistics software and the current buzz is WiFi hotspots where a laptop with a GPS will call home when it enters the area. Carriers will pay quite a bit (but not too much) for access to these networks, since most of what they currently do is have the truck driver phone a representative who keys in the data (cellular service/equipment tends to be too expensive or nonreliable).By using these networks they can eliminate the rep (and the keying errors).

Re:one word: truck stops (ok, its two :-)

[BluGuy]

Have you been to a Starbucks in the last 6 months? IIRC, the teamed with VoiceStream/T-Mobile to provide prepayed wireless access. And, depending on where your local Apple store is located, you should be able to leach from them, all their stores should have open 802.11b networks.

Re:one word: truck stops (ok, its two :-)

[Big Mark]

Aye. I've "done coffee" once, (I'm at St. Andrews uni, the most upper-class twat filled place in existance) and I brought the average worth of the customers down by about twenty grand a year.

Mind you, someone did spill a café latté or whatever all over their nice new shoes... aww diddums, Daddy'll have to buy you a new pair!

-Mark

Re:one word: truck stops (ok, its two :-)

[Anonymous Coward]

Where do you live? Most of the coffee shops around here are either located inside a Barnes & Noble store or are a Starbucks franchise. Most of the people are pretty average. Yeah, you'll find some rich types too, but for the most part they are just your basic college kids looking for a comfortable place to read or study.

Re:one word: truck stops (ok, its two :-)

[puzzled]

A national truck stop HotSpot infrastructure will allow smaller players to duplicate much of what Werner Enterprises has done with communications in their truck fleet.

Werner headquarters is just a few miles down the road from me and you better believe they're already aware that something like this is coming ...

Re:one word: truck stops (ok, its two :-)

[adamfranco]

I always got that feeling when going into the Westport. All that brushed aluminium/steel decore and upperclass lads looking very debonare.

Re:one word: truck stops (ok, its two :-)

[mesocyclone]

I use truck stops all the time during my annual midwest storm chasing vacation. Truck stops frequently have telephones at the restaurant tables that truckers use to call their dispatchers. We use those phones to dial the internet to get weather data. Sometimes we have to remove the phones from the wall to get at the phone line for the modem, however. Acoustic couplers just don't work very well with modern phones.

A lot of truck stops also have internet kiosks. In fact, I have seen more internet kiosks in truck stops than anyplace else I have been. Truckers have a lot of communications needs - both for business and personal reasons.

BTW... if you take a road trip across America, truck stops are often the best place to stop for gas, quick food, and munchies! They normally have large stores with all sorts of goodies (from munchies to radio equipment to truck stuff). Many of them participate in a books on tape club so you can rent a book, play it in your car, and when you are done, drop it off at another truck stop. A favorite one in Amarillo, TX even has a Radio Shack inside of it. And truck stops now cater to non-truckers (hey, I don't drive a truck - not the smartest tornado chase vehicle).

I would LOVE to find WiFi hotspots in truck stops or anywhere else out in the boonies!

Re:one word: truck stops (ok, its two :-)

[Judg3]

I don't know if I'd totally agree with that. Trucking Companies already have what they need, Qualcomm OmniTracs - an all-in-one solution offering 2way text communication, email, vehicle tracking, trailer tracking, and load info. And they've had it for quite awhile. Every large scale company uses it, as well as most smaller fleets. It's essential, and cuts down on all the "let's call our dispatcher" downtime.
I know, I used to drive truck.
These systems utilize satellite communcation which, while not perfect, would be much better then truckstop hotspots for all but the smallest fleets.

To be honest, there aren't many truckstops east of Pa, and the ones there fill up fast. Not to mention certain drivers, like me, only stopped at truckstops to fuel, using wayside rests to shut down for my break.

And don't forget there's a lot of places where drivers go where there isnt a local truckstop nearby. I would sure hate delivering a load and driving for 200 miles to hit a hotspot and find out my next load. I quite liked being out in BFE and still having a link to HQ right by my side.

Re:one word: truck stops (ok, its two :-)

[Anonymous Coward]

What statistics can you provide to support your claim? I'm sure you'll get lots of counter claims (i.e. Cambridge, MA, USA).

Nice .....

[mustangdavis]

You can display their logo for free until March 2004 ... then ou have to pay to keep the logo there .... that stinks!!! If you are one of the people that helps to get this organization off of the ground, wh should you have to pay???


Is it just me, or would anyone else feel used if they put up their logo????

Re:Nice .....

[_ph1ux_]

not to mention the fact that the logo is poorly designed.

Destroy Mom and Pop

[MosesJones]

For "global brand" read "US Brand" and this brand gives you the right to...

Actually it gives you the right to do nothing. The point here is that they are aiming to be an "approved" networking solution, so you would only connect to "approved" solutions providers, and your local coffee shop would not be approved but Starbucks sure as hell would be.

Welcome to the corporatisation of community efforts. They don't like Mom and Pop doing this, so they are starting a plan

1) Create a brand
2) Start calling it "approved"
3) Complain to councils and goverments about "un-approved" networks that are causing interfernce.
4) Get unapproved networks stopped.
5) Ramp up the price.

Of course they'd need to sign up the hardware vendors to ensure proper lock down... oh.... they've already thought of that

Re:Destroy Mom and Pop

[puzzled]

Mom and Pop are not operating alone :-)

http://www.part-15.org
http://www.wispcon.info
http://www.isp-lists.com - sign up for isp-wireless mailing list

Go to google and look for the industry leaders - "Michael Anderson" (part-15.org, wispcon.info founder)

"Patrick Leary" (Alvarion Chief Evangelist)

"Marlon Schafer" (agitator, comedian, business consultant)

"Allen Marsalis" (WispCon II award winner ... the biggest mom & pop out there)

"Roger Boggs" (Roger 'Obi Wan' Boggs - rf guru)

and there are a host of others who answer newcomer's questions and push on lobbying issues, FCC requests for comment, etc - Eje Gustafsson, Jeremy Parr, Neal Rauhauser, Bob Moldashel, Victoria Proffer, the guys at http://www.mikrotik.com, Lonnie Nunweiler, and we can't forget Steve Stroh at http://www.strohpub.com.

If /. really wanted to interview some people who know whats going on in the wireless industry, they'd start with Patrick Leary and Steve Stroh, then they'd contact some of the other people I've mentioned.

Re:Destroy Mom and Pop

[_ph1ux_]

there are many problems with the evolution of the "wi-fi" market currently.

first of all - the marketplace hasnt solidified totally yet - this means that many possibilities for "markets" havent all been indentified yet.

Since this area is just starting to get major attention you can bet your bottom dollar that the deep pockets are already doing marjor development to ensure their ugly umbrella will cover this new market.

we can see this in the formation of Cometa. Cometa is largely funded by AT&T (& intel & IBM) - but there is a big problem with them: they are funded by companies that have major branding, people already dont trust, have crappy customer service & tend to monopolize their markets.

Cometa is definitely not a company I would want to trust.

anyway - another thing about cometa is that they want to be the leader in hotspots - like in malls, airports busy coffee shops etc. This is good and bad.

First - its good for an ISP to focus on hotspots initially, as this will only require them to put up the infrastructure as needed. As usage, awareness and demand rises - they can grow their coverage out.

This is bad because it will require them to maintain many many physical backhauling link ups. This means that for every hotspot - they will require a real traditional uplink like a T1.

Now - here is why AT&T is important - they can provide the uplinks at a loss indefinitely until they are in a monopolizing position. They can also hold the potential to sell access on those uplinks to other WISPs who want to just maintain a small wifi AP area....

so - we see the community wisp (cometa) appearing to come along and provide you with wifi service, but its really big corporate money (and the shitty service that goes with it) bringing up a new brand in an attempt to fool people into thinking that this is a good thing (tm) for them.

well, the issue that I have with this whole market (aside from the fact that I hate big telcos to begin with) is that we (the people) have a perfect oppotunity to actually take an industry and market over - and build it out on a proper foundation - like low cost high quality service where our users (not customers) are important to the integrity of the service.

a company like AT&T (in the guise of cometa) just absolutely cannot provide you with honest-to-goodness service.

Dont forget about AT&T wanting to provide you with every possible service (via an electronic means) in a package deal that stiffles competition and overcharges the consumer at every opportunity. You can forget about multiple providers for cable, cel, long ditance, wireless internet.

So - the 5 step process to building a monopoly above is in full effect in the infancy of the wifi market.

I just hope that we can see through lame attempts to control our information and demand (through our actions) that a proper model gets established.

There are many options that should be looked at and weighed and fleshed out.

For example - what if you had each city maintain (through multiple sub contracting companies) a mesh network that was the city's local wireless "cell" - the backhaul would be provided by multiple carriers who bid to the city for the traffic....

there is so much that can be donw with wireless that we need to be careful not to let it get monopolized so soon while we are not watching.

Re:Destroy Mom and Pop

[EmagGeek]

Part 15 of the FCC rules, with which all 802.11 equipment must comply, state in part that "This device must accept any interference, including that which may cause undesired operation."

Federal law preempts the ability to complain about interference in the ISM band. This is unlicensed spectrum to which no one individual or entity has any elevated use rights over any other individual or entity. This is good for adoption, although overcrowding may become an issue.

Even if only consequential, Part 15 protects joe blow average user from any recourse from a big corporation that wants to use the spectrum.

I will probably have first-hand experience with this shortly, as my new free public hotspot is aimed directly at the Starbucks down the street from my eighth floor condo. :)

Unfortunately for me, the law only allows 36dBm EIRP for point to multipoint links, so I'm trying to get a point-to-point link with a friend of mine who lives just a little further down the street, in which case I'm allowed 48dBm EIRP (which for those of you who don't know logarithmic math, is almost 16 times as much power) :)

And yes, I do have a businees connection of which I am perfectly allowed to resell the bandwidth... Here's a picture of my antenna array, just before I added the isolation fence and other goodies to prevent coupling..

.mil error

[OS2 Dude]

Well, one can also ask how many will we actually see... since the military has already started to complain about the hotspot zones are disturbin their radio equitment.... Goto OS2 Dudez HomeZone ....

How does this differ from ... ?

[HealYourChurchWebSit]

From a technology standpoint, can someone out there with alot of Wi-Fi experience reply back with how this will differ from products such as Joltage's apps that turn hot spots into instant mini-Internet service providers? Or HotSpottzz, who has creats wi-fi networks via strategically placed antennas? Or is WiFi Zone more this more like the peer-to-peer approach taken by SkyPilot?

I'll help with a FREE site ....

[mustangdavis]

If anyone wanted to make this web site, I'd provide free hosting for it! (provided that it was TOTALLY FREE for everyone to use ... and that it doesn't suck down ubber-bandwidth (more than a T-1's worth)

That is B.S. that you have to pay to use their logo and to essentially get listed on their site ... where is their community spirit??

Re:I'll help with a FREE site ....

[Stuart Gibson]

Well, they probably had to pay 25 million to some graphics genius to come up with that inspired logo.

Goblin

Re:I'll help with a FREE site ....

[adamfranco]

Well, they are listed as a non-profit, so the costs of developing an international database of hot spots and ensuring that locations that are certified are up to snuff is going to have to come from the licences.

Also, $100 per year isn't all that much if you are a for-profit business that is using Wi-Fi as a means of attracting customers to your location. The article says that libraries, colleges, and governments don't need to pay. I'd imagine that other non-profits with community spirit driving their installation of WiFi would be able to get reductions in $$ too.

Re:I'll help with a FREE site ....

[GlassUser]

There is no community spirit. They're selling advertising. Basically, you buy a listing in their book.

Re:I'll help with a FREE site ....

[The J Kid]

If anyone wanted to make this web site, I'd provide free hosting for it!

Cool! You know what, I'll do the web design for free!
(Again, only id it's TOTALLY FREE for everyone to use...)

Don't worry, I'm a good XHTML, anti-flash designer/coder (and make my websites ultra small & lite)

Re:I'll help with a FREE site ....

[_ph1ux_]

Uh, No thanks.

Just visited your site you have there, and it asked me to install the Gator Spyware.

Not to mention asthetics, blech.

Re:I'll help with a FREE site ....

[The J Kid]

That's not me...that's cjb.net

I have pop-ups blocked so I don't see them...hmm must see if there isn't some other free subdomain address somewhere else...

Sorry 'bout that....

Re:I'll help with a FREE site ....

[Anonymous Coward]

"If anyone wanted to make this web site, I'd provide free hosting for it!"

Yeah, but to get to your website they'd need access to the web... Which if they're wandering around a foreign city, they won't. And if they do, they won't need a WIFI connection. Perhaps they can go to the site to print a map first, but anyway...

Warchalking is distributed, 'real', and standard. If a cafe wants to add an explanation, they can. They can combine a )( symbol with the "We offer our customers, neighbours, and bystanders free internet access using the network name X on channel N" text on the same sign to explain it.

First few cafes who do that then educate the public as to what those weird symbols mean, and it becomes the WiFi symbol just as easily as these people's trademarked and licensed symbol.

Quality? Well you wouldn't trust a WiFi provider not to be monitoring your connection anyway, so you have to provide your own SSL-browsing if you use wireless networking, regardless of how upstanding somebody says this operator is.

Who's behind all this?

[lpret]

I wonder who is actually behind this "stunt." I just read an article about how linksys has been doing incredibly well in the WIFI world, and that Microsoft is just now jumping in with their products. Could it be that Microsoft is angling itself to fit in with this WIFI Zone, and have only it's hardware approved?

*Sigh* Too much Conspiracy Zone for me...

Re:Who's behind all this?

[First_In_Hell]

I really don't think Microsoft is behind this. I think all signs point to the makers of the X10 camera.

Roaming (GSM-like)

[dago]

I can see one main advantage of this 'wi-fi zone', but I fear that it will not be implemented is roaming, so that you can just have a contract with your 'main' provider, use other hotspots and be billed on your normal contract. That would be nice.

I also hope that the requirement states that there's not f*cking additionnal software to install. I can also dream of requiring easy access from other OS than windows.

Better symbol

[Fjord]

I think the top one of these would be a better brand symbol.

bleh, such a stupid name...

[autopr0n]

Well, who is going to pay $100 to offer a service for free?

I guess this is probably going to go more towards pay sites, but if they really want to build a world of total wi-fi coverage, what they should do is build protocols that allow devices to see prices to get on the various Networks that surround them and allow for quick, instant payment for bandwidth used.

Well...

[autopr0n]

I'm providing wireless access to probably 10-20 rooms in my dorm. I know of at least one person using (total stranger came to my door once and asked me about it, lived one floor up)

Re:Well...

[LostCluster]

If you're gonna provide free Wi-Fi access be prepared to either:

A: Take names-- log your guest's activity against some sort of account system so that if somebody does something that starts to violate the TOS you agreed to to get your bandwidth you can figure out who did it, and cut them off.
B: Limit access-- firewall your guests so that they can only do what you allow them to do over your bandwidth, and have to follow your rules, which make sure that it's not possible to do anything that violates your ISP's TOS.

As far as this is concerned, there's no need to make a distiction between the terrorist who wants to blow up the USA, and the common lowlife spammer. When Internet traffic flows through your wire, you are responsible for it. If it's clear that your port is being used to send spam, but you don't know who's connecting to your Wi-Fi to send it, you're the one who's gonna be blamed. If your Wi-Fi turns out to be the one that the local Al Queda rep is using to communicate, you sure are going to wish you have something to give the investigators to move on the path beyond you.

And you really should double check to see if your TOS allows you do have an open Wi-Fi port in the first place. If your school's IT department depends on funding from sale of the in-dorm Internet connections, and some of the students around you are mooching off you instead of buying their own connection, you are setting yourself up to be cut off.

nice logo...

[rtphokie]

Wouldn't it make sense to put a space for the SSID?

now long is it till 'never'

[autopr0n]

Layer 3, at least as I read it refers to the layer in the physical network stack. He means that all internet trafic would be encrypted, rather then application spesific uses like SSH and https.

Anyway, even if you did create a distributed project, you would only be able to decrypt one internet session from one person. Not everyone's traffic. It would be entirely pointless.

Re:now long is it till 'never'

[blibbleblobble]

"Anyway, even if you did create a distributed project, you would only be able to decrypt one internet session from one person. Not everyone's traffic. It would be entirely pointless."

Perhaps almost as usefully, the crowds protocol could be used to merge the traffic from many computers accessing the node (they can all talk to each other of course, they have WiFi) -- thus allowing the host not to have to monitor peoples' connections on request, as he would not be able to.

All encrypted connections need to stop somewhere, right? So why would you open a crypto layer to anonymizer.org and trust them, when you could just chaff your net traffic with other people in the same cafe?

Forging ahead with out an ounce of caution

[Anonymous Coward]

This drive to put 802.11 (I refuse to use the stupid moniker "wi-fi") on everything from cars to wristwatches is not only careless, but dangerous.

How many times does it have to be said, "WEP IS BROKEN"? And worse than that--WEP is also OPTIONAL. Most people don't understand encryption, nor do they grok why they should at least turn WEP on, be it broken or not. The end result is, they don't. Take a quick drive around your neighborhood with Kismet and see for yourself...90% of the AP's you encounter are using the default settings (including the default ESSID of "linksys"), and are using absolutely NO encryption. It's even worse when they have the AP's DHCP server left on.

The solution is of course to use a good VPN, right? But setting up a VPN is not trivial--take a look at the docs on freeswan.org, it's fairly involved and well beyond joe average user. Never mind the myriad of different VPN clients that may or may not work with your VPN server.

802.11 is fundamentally flawed. It is -dangerously- flawed.

Re:Forging ahead with out an ounce of caution

[glesga_kiss]

How many times does it have to be said, "WEP IS BROKEN"?

You don't understand the point of WEP. It is an encryption standard to get you onto the wireless network segment. If you are using a shared access point, you must either have no WEP enabled, or everyone uses the same WEP key. How easily it can be broken is completely irrelevant in any discussion about shared access points. It's like being on a normal CAT-5 shared network segment (hub, not a switch). With the WEP key in place, all traffic is available to you. No different to being in a internet cafe, would you trust your packets in that enviroment?

WEP can be used by private firms or home users to lock down access to their own network. It is here that the weakness lies.

The net is an unencrypted and completely insecure network. Just because the last mile is suddenly insecure, it's no reason to suddenly start to panic. If you are concerned, get some good VPN software, or stick to encrypting by protocol. It's the only way to limit access to your communications. Oh, and avoid using the phone as well.

Personally, I'm more concerned that POP/IMAP over SSL is as rare as it is currently, especially given how easy it is to configure. You want something to worry about? Who's holding this back? Where's my tinfoil hat?

maybe you don't understand what'unregulated' means

[autopr0n]

It means no regulation. You can do whatever you want in the 2.4 and 5ghz range, as long as you don't go over a certan power range.

Just run IPSec

[sulli]

If you need security, just run IPSec. If you don't, don't. Requiring it is dumb, though.

Re:How does this differ from ... ?

[puzzled]

Think of the cell phone network - you can sign up for a phone in Seattle and probably make a call in Miami. 802.11b access today is not a lot different than the private radio systems that the cell business is slowly consuming.

For wireless hotspots to take off there really needs to be a standard behind it - I'd suggest something along the lines of broadcasting SSID so they're easy to find, then requiring authentication and strong layer three encryption for each client - so what if they're netstumbled :-)

Its going to be interesting ... perhaps we'll even see OSP (Open Settlement Protocol), which was developed for VoIP, applied to this problem.

spontaneous public domain logo/brand creation

[goombah99]

Logo's and brands are usually controlled by an organization. Even organizations of "free" things like software or religion still have their own logo's like the Gnu or the cross.

But reading this post I find myself trying to write down examples of public domain logos that are not controlled by any organization. And I think that there are relatively few. Of those that come to mind, like the pawn shop's three balls, and the Medical caducious, they are very ancient. A few modern examples are the radioactive and biohazard tri-foils.

We are now poised at a point where a new public symbol might have reached a critical public awareness where it might spring into existence. The Warchalked Wi-Fi hot spot.

Of course I'm glossing over those generic sorts of informational highway type signs that basically are pictographs (mens room, telephone, hotel bed).

Or maybe this is more common than I think. Can slashdot readers come up with other (non-generic) examples of "free" logos with no controlling entity.

Re:spontaneous public domain logo/brand creation

[matt_wilts]

Not a free one, but as far as I know, the oldest trademark is the Bass red triangle.
Matt

Re:maybe you don't understand what'unregulated' me

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is that it ain't likely to stay unregulated. That's what he's talking about.

site already exists

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.80211hotspots.com

Hotspot Indications

[Anonymous Coward]

There are already many ways to list your hotspot, including http://www.nodedb.com, http://www.wifimaps.com, and more. I don't understnad why one would need to pay $100 to use a logo, I think the standard [)(] is sufficient...

Logo Proposition

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead of paying to use a logo, I suggest one that we can all use for free: http://www.zhrodague.net/~drew/images/flipbird-ico n.png

You forgot...

[JZ_Tonka]

1) Create a brand
2) Start calling it "approved"
3) Complain to councils and goverments about "un-approved" networks that are causing interfernce.
4) Get unapproved networks stopped.
5) Ramp up the price.

You forgot:
6) ???
7) PROFIT!!

Re:You forgot...

[Anonymous Coward]

6) can only be 'cackle maniacally while stroking a large white cat'. Where the profit comes from is obvious...

Re:You forgot...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong, it's

6)...
7)Profit.

I have also been working on this. - A free version

[nycview]

I have also been working on wi-fi hot spot branding for a while, with an identity sign (for free)

Beam Here mirror

Beam Here

Beam Here Identity Sign

I can put together a simple eps sign to print for anyone with a hotspot to use in about a week. And if anyone wants to team up for a database that would be great to.

Couple of problems (at least):

[uradu]

1. Stupid symbol. It contains no symbology suggesting wirelessness or radio, and it contains English words (and parts thereof). This is supposed to be an international symbol, so it should use graphics only. Just look at simple symbols like those for radioactivity or biohazards, they're extremely simple and to the point. What's wrong with an idealized graphic of an antenna and radio waves, plus some sort of hint that it's digital?

2. If it's supposed to encourage more widespread adoption of WiFi, the fee will be a super-major downer for a lot of providers (especially in parts of the world where $100 still means something). Plus it sends the wrong signal (no pun intended), charging for something that is supposed to spread the gospel.

Re:Couple of problems (at least):

[sean23007]

charging for something that is supposed to spread the gospel.

You mean a bible? I hear they still charge for those...

Mod Up Parent

[BadlandZ]

Good link above, mod up parent.

Anyway... There are two big problems with all of these public websites to find active 802.11b nodes.

1) No one knows were to find them (lack of advertizing and promotion). Now, being that they are free, why don't they get free banner ad space on places like OSDN, or supporting users sites? (Other "free" projects do, right?

2) The information is WAY to old. Who wants to go a couple miles away, only to find out the node is dead? Why not write a snmp query interface to the database, and then have the people running the nodes allow specific snmp access from the public database server? Then, you could have live information, not "230 day old" information...

Re:Mod Up Parent

[GlassUser]

Extremely useful might be a "last contacted" field. Of course there is potential for abuse, but I don't think that will be significant in the near future.

It's Companies, not people, behind it

[Hittite Creosote]

This sign points to who is behind it. In other words, The Usual Corporate Suspects - not just Microsoft and Intel, but Apple, AMD, etc. etc.

The $100 fee seems unnecessary

[caseyc]

After all, when people start to see this logo everywhere, they're going to realize how valuable and pervasive WiFi is. I'd imagine that would translate into more sales of WiFi hardware, which would pay off for everybody involved in the WiFi Alliance.

What the heck?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it just me or does the Wi-Fi ZONE's domain name read "Why fizz one?"

Not another one...

[kels]

We don't need yet another site to try to track access points. We need someone to consolodate the information that is already out there. E.g.,

OpenNodes

The Wi-Fi FreeSpot Network

NodeDB

80211hotspots.com

The problem is that these are all incomplete, and don't keep up with each other. If someone starts another, please comb through these sites and take user comments on reliability, continued existence, free/price, etc.

-1, Inappropriate moderation.

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently one only has to express one's honest opinion to be labelled "troll" if some idiot moderator disagrees with it.

where is the ANTI-ZONE

[Anonymous Coward]

coalition gonna start ?

piss water or preservatives

[Anonymous Coward]

given the choice I am not sure which is worse, Piss or Formaldehyde. AB beers are disgusting...

Let me get this straight

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'm putting up a Wireless access point, antenna, internet connection - if I want to have a silly logo that say "WIFI zone" - I have to pay $100 for the stupid logo?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

what you say? All your wi-fi base are belong to us

[nxs212]

http://www.seethru.co.uk/zine/rants/allyourbase.ht m

FREE alternative

[zomB1kenoB]

If you're just looking for a logo to advertize to the public that you've got a WAP available to use, I'm working on that right now. Here's the rough website I threw together today:

ZomBvision's Web Icon

I'd have put this up hours ago but work kept getting in the way of my goofing-off time (I hate that).
I'll put up the original graphics I developed for this after I get home tonight-will be available tomorrow. I wish I had my professional graphics tools at work.
I'll also post links to existing sites that show available AP's and add my own list of Hot Spots. I'll start taking list suggestions at my email address (zombvision@cy-co.com) until I get a handy web form put up to automate the process. I'll gladly accept volunteer code and graphics for free distribution, as well as suggestions from arm-chair lawyers (or real lawyers, even) as to how my rules for use of the designs on this page should be amended/modified.

Turn off SSID broadcast

[rtphokie]

Turning off SSID broadcast is a far better way to keep people off your access point. They cant access what they cant see. And change your SSID from "Linksys" or "Default".

I just dont get the "802.11 is flawed" mantra that I keep hearing over and over again. A little security (WEP plus turning off SSID broadcast) is more than enough for home users. Neither JoeSix pack nor JoeSlashDotter needs military grade encryption. JoeSlashDotter seems to think he does for some reason.

Re:maybe you don't understand what'unregulated' me

[akb]

2.4 and 5ghz are regulated by the FCC. However, one can operate on an unlicensed basis in those bands. Big difference.

Really *dumb* advertising at that!

[billstewart]

It's not just advertising Wifi availability - it's advertising that they probably charge money for it, especially since they paid $100 for three window decals, and that they might accept one-time charges or might not accept them, and might accept other members' service plans or not. It tells you that you're not going to get free Wifi service with your latte, so you might as well see if the other coffee shop on the block/mall/airport has free wifi or a neatly printed warchalk logo in _their_ window.

The performance certification isn't stunning, either - it's nice to get 2Mbps radio, but they're only insisting on 128kbps of actual wired bandwidth behind it, so who cares how fast the radio link is? (I'd initially read it as requiring 2Mbps of _bandwidth_, which means a European E1 can almost do it, unless they use 1984kbps or 1920kbps framing, but an American/Japanese/Taiwanese T1 can't. But it's just talking about radio speed. 128kbps is just ISDN/IDSL or slow-DSL-uplink speed, though it certainly beats modems.)

The no-interference-with-VPNs part is good, though it's not clear whether it's banning NAT or not (many IPSEC implementations support UDP tunnels for NAT, but it's bandwidth-intensive and not universally supported.)

VPN setup is easy, and you'll do it anyway

[billstewart]

Sure, as a hacker it's fun to install FreeS/WAN (First do a clean recompile of your kernel....) But commercial VPN products, including the VPNs in the older free PGP versions, are usually much easier to install on Windows desktops, with standard Windows installers. The simplicity either requires you to use pre-shared passwords, or else have an administrator who _did_ do some complex work on your corporate firewall, but for most modern business you're going to do that anyway.

Of course, using 802.11 without using firewalls is seriously risky, and I'm not optimistic about whatever Son-of-WEP is called really fixing the problem well. But that's a separate issue.

Every library a hot spot

[rjamestaylor]

Question: how about making public libraries hot spots? Most libraries already have multiple computers attached to the Internet for public use. Why not allow people to bring their own computers/handhelds and access the Internet through a public hot spot? This would benefit the library (as it would not have to MAINTAIN computers brought in by others, for one thing) and could even be used to promote a "rediscovery" of libraries themselves.

It would seem to require very little hardware and planning. . .perhaps this could be a grassroots phenomenon--wire your libraries!

Re:I have also been working on this. - A free vers

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes but who has a link on branding? Do you realize what the term 'Branding' entails?

these bozos should pay me to promote their logo

[riaa]

you cant have ying without the yang; all your ying are belong to us