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Phantom Game Console
jasoncart writes "In a bold move newly formed US technology company Infinium Labs Corporation have announced the release of a new gaming console. They promise that it will be faster than any other console on the market, and have a huge games catalog (32k+ games apparently) available over broadband. Can they take on the big boys? Is broadband pentration high enough? Only time will tell - prototypes are promised in March." There's also an interview with their PR spokesdrone. *cough*Indrema.*cough*
This is doomed to failure. Without any of the big name gaming companies to back them up, noone will buy the console.
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the next 3do
no
It's either fraud, stupidity, or MAME-in-a-box.
can you heat an egg on its heatsink?
REAL gaming machines cook eggs.
Easy guys, I put my pants on one leg at a time. The difference is after I put on my pants I make gold records!
But can it topple Duke Nukem Forever as the #1 vaporware item for this year?!?!?!
Pong, Breakout, Space Invaders..
Trolling is a art,
more than just 32k games and a great console. They need the mindshare and advertising power that Sony and Microsoft have, and to a lesser extent, Nintendo.
Even then, I think consumers already have enough with the PS2, XBox, and GameCube. Will they pick up a fourth?
The idea of playing games over broadband is interesting, but that's already a common use for computers (where you would have the broadband!).
--------
Free your mind.
Think they're seeking capital?
I hope it's quicker than their web server
Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise. - William Shakespeare
i wonder how long they debated whether or not to keep "phantom" or go with the name "vapor".
How in the world are they going to have 32,000 games to start with? Are that many in the world now? This must be a case of quantity over quality.
(32k+ games apparently) available over broadband
That's nothing! My old Apple IIe could play 64k games!
Something tells me this is just a joke. I sat and listened to the little media hype thingy, and I actually laughed out loud.
It shows a little rendered image of a console, while saying things like "Imagine being able to pay for each play" and "Imagine downloading the latest patches and bugfixes".
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
If they try to take this device and compete with Nintendo, MS and Sony they have no chance to survive. The product is too ahead of its time to make any money. However, it could be succesful if they market it to hotels, airlines, trains, doctors, dentists, cafes, etc. Put a money slot on it and put it in various public places. I think if they market it this way they can be quite profitable.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
... because calling it vapor would have been too obvious.
For every post, there is an equal and opposite re-post.
It is interesting that the richest company in the world (Microsoft) released a game console to take on the clear leader in the console market (Sony), and has lost TONS of money attempting to gain market share in this market. Now, an unknown company with who knows how much cash on hand is going to attempt to squeeze out these 2 leaders... Someone get the company e-mail address and send them Chapter 11 paperwork now.
I don't think 684 versions of Tetris, each with slightly different graphics, should count as distinct games.
"People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
Anyway, if they actually did make 32,679 separate games, most of them probably suck due to lack of imagination, polish, play testing, or they simply aren't fun. The idea is halfway decent, though I don't think enough people have broadband to make this viable, but the details are rather far-fetched.
It's not 32,000 games, it's 32K games. Games which fit in 32K.
But this machine will play them very quickly, as it's the fastest machine on the market.
And, you've got to admit, "Phantom" is the perfect name for a vaporware console.
Does narcissism count as a hobby? --Shawn Latimer
Interviewer: Hey, why are there wheels on the console? Spokesman: It's faster than any other console on the market. Interviewer: Umm... usually when referring to the spees of the console, you quote the processor speed, or some benchmark. Spokesman: You want a benchmark? This thing gets 112 Miles per gallon. The tank holds a pint. You do the math. Interviewer: What's the purpose of a moving console? Spokesman: It's the ultimate mobile platform.
Karma: Raspberry Kiwi
A small goup here in the U.K. think we might have a solution to entry into this sort of market: possibly utilising open-source software & tech. (But ultimately in a no idealistic way).
;)
Don't worry we're not thinking of releasing a console (ala Indrema). And hopefully we wont be needing huge ammounts of start capital. Aside from that we're in early stages so I'm keeping quiet for now.
Well, anyway, good luck to these guys; they'll need it. Even if they don't make it, we may have a pleasant suprise for you in Winter 2003/04
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
I grew up with the rise of consoles - from the early ones like the atari and pong - through NES and its siblings to now, the ps2 xbox etc, just as many of us have. But I still do not own one.
I had a sega, I had NES and super NES and dreamcast. But I choose not to buy any new ones now.
I have played computer games religously ever since I was in 3rd grade. I play games on my PC and thats how I like it.
I have a big comfy chair - a huge monitor and a very fast machine - in a room dedicated to computer gaming. I prefer this setup greatly over sitting on the floor in front of my TV. I prefer the level of interaction that a PC can provide.
I dont have any desire for an xbox, ps2 gamecube or other... my PC is just fine. and it serves a hell of a lot more functions than a console system.
The current prices of hardware is incredible. I just built another great system for $400. at just twice the price of an xbox/ps2 I get 1000 times the functionality.
Unless the system they are offering is $25.00 and I dont have to pay any sort of monthly access (like if it were to utilize my *exisiting* lan and broadband connection - without a large price for a lan adapter - i will continue to have no interest in console systems.
What they should do is focus on making a PCI card that you can insert into your PC and utilize its hardware to make it a "console" system in that it can hold the controllers and play all the games - for a minimal cost.
then make all the money off the price of the games (which are already overpriced at $50.)
Boy that flash intro with 4 static images was really worth the download/loading time.
Their blurb reads like toxic corporate MBA talk. "It'll change the world forever, parents will be able to monitor what their children play." blah blah blah.
This is a company which -obviously- doesn't know who it's target audience is. You don't win people over with a cheesy looking computer model of your console. You win them over by showing flashy graphics in your commercials matched with good games.
This company is doomed to go down in flames unless they figure out how to play with the big boys and their big PR companies.
The Generation
I'd say something witty here, but I'm not that bright.
No really, go read it. It'll take a little extra time, but it could be the most hilarious thing you'll see in months.
2 0P ress%20Annoucment%204.0.htm
.
http://www.infiniumlabs.com/PR/Infinium%20Labs%
I've seen companies promise a subset of the features that I want in product XYZ, but this is the first time I've ever seen a company promote that it has every single feature ever
A good quote: "Combining skills from Telco, Data Communications, Digital Rights Management, Software Development and Security, the management team brings together a unique array of skills to develop the most robust next generation gaming console and delivery network on the market."
Wha?
It's just too funny on its own... I can't add to anything they've said...
"Anyone else remember typing in games from magazines?"
Yup. In basic AND machine language. You had to pay extra to get the games on a floppy disk. Ah, memories.
Conglom-O: We Own You (TM).
Moreover, foresee the ability to develop games on a nonproprietary system, which is Windows based, something relatively unheard of today.
How nonproprietary can it possibly be if it's "Windows based"? Do they mean Xwindows?
Remember the old "Combat" game for the atari 2600? I believe it was marketed as something like "40 games in one!" even though the games were all on the order of:
1. Tanks shoot eachother
2. Tanks shoot eachother with bouncing bullets
3. Tanks shoot eachother around obstacles
4. Tanks shoot eachother around obstacles with bouncing bullets
etc...
All they would need is one game and 15 things to toggle on and off, and that should get you to about 32,000 different "games".
oops
A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.
I don't buy any of it. But where to start?
"talking with my Uncle Isaac a few weeks ago... As a Sony employee, he has access to internal releases..."
But somehow none of the insider news sites got even a glimmer of this? No one but your "Uncle Isaac" mentioned it to anyone outside the company?
They're going to "use a Transmeta chip, so that the CPU's instruction set can be "field-programmed..."
Hmm, will the transmeta chip also emulate the memory architectures, audio co-processors, etc?
Other things said don't even make sense... "Infinium is going to be paying them to produce each unit (instead of the converse which they often see with their own products).
Just enough smoke and mirrors to sound almost correct. Nice job.
Supporting Linux would be a key advantage over existing console makers, who go out of their way to prevent customers from running a real OS on their devices.
I wonder if you've ever heard of this little company called Sony...
Anyway, yeah, what-ever. An advantage, yes. A key advantage, no. They might sell more consoles. They wouldn't sell any more games, thus they would get no more money from royalties. That's where the money in the console market is.
"Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
I present to you: Springtime for Hitler, the console.
Competition is always a great thing in the business world, because *generally* the consumer wins. At present there is no way this startup can compete. Sony, Nintendo, and even Microsoft to a lesser part have put millions-billions in research. Slapping together this weeks fastest graphics chip with an x86 processor does not mean it's the fastest system, actually thats far from the truth. If it were that simple everyone would make their own consoles. To have the gaming industry take them seriously, perhaps they should come down to planet earth talk about realistic game numbers, because it's quality that counts not quantity. The indrema touted good things too, yet look where that turned out. I suggest they put their money where their mouth is and prove that it is much faster then other consoles, because at the moment they are nothing more then a Realian game console manufacturer.
On the one hand, they appear to be charging for downloads of traditional PC games, so it appears that they have finally found another way to take commodity hardware and make money licensing game sales (the other, XBox).
Outperforming a generation of consoles that was released over two years ago isn't particularly difficult... The Dreamcast did it quite well, but failed miserably in the market. The key is not to be better than everyone else, (the PS2 is currently the slowest console available), but to be so much better that all of the developers flock to your system and produce must-have games. With a system of renting otherwise available PC games, I don't see how they will have any of the exclusives they need to thrive, unless they develop them themselves.
Limiting themselves to broadband-only customers and broadband-only distribution is an interesting choice. Traditionally, if you wanted to sell a console you had to convince hundreds of thousands of stores across the world to devote 5 - 20 feet of shelf space to your product... a difficult task to say the least. However, by going with broadband, they have cut out that huge fixed cost. If they didn't go overboard with their DRM and can find a somewhat linearly scaling manufacturing facility (difficult, I admit), they *could* survive on a very small installed userbase. They will have to work with the Nintendo model (all partners absorb fixed cost risks in exchange for a cut of razor blade sales), but I could really see them living comfortably on a base of 1 to 2 million people or less.
On the other hand, by going with broadband, they have limited themselves to selling a crippled, specialized PC to people who are guaranteed to already have a full-fledged PC. Microsoft tried it with the XBox, and while sales aren't horrible, they are still losing the race with a lunchbox. Infinium will have to develop / buy exclusives, and it doesn't seem like they have the funding to do that.
Furthermore, DRM and temporary rentals are *designed* to frustrate consumers, and the home entertainment device crowd is notoriously unforgiving when they feel they have been wronged. They will have to dance a fine line between demos / rentals / subscriptions / and sales. Just reading their mission statement makes me wonder if they will have anytime, night-and-weekend, and overtime minutes. Can I get extra minutes if I sign to a one-year contract? What do you mean I owe $170 dollars for going over? But it was Final Fantasy, what do you expect me to do?
I'd like to say I have high-hopes in this situation, but high hopes in this situation would be survival.
-c
This Sig is a mnemonic device designed to allow you to recognize this author in the future.
32,000 games is about what there is available for PC. I think this will be a PC without a keyboard using a per-per-play system to download and play from broadband. Just about any game could be downloaded and played this way, if the license could be worked out.
The answer to the 32k games statement seems pretty obvious to me. I think that in addition to having a small set of games written for and optimized for their supposedly powerful platform, they will put emulators in the box by default. Boot code will detect a disc/cartridge of Type X and load the appropriate emulator from rom. They could easily emulate NES, SNES, N64, PS1, Sega up through Dreamcast, and maybe PS2 althought I'm not entirely sure on that. The 32k games will be other consoles' games that you can replay on this one. It's the only way that number can make sense.
11*43+456^2
Nothing better than to kick off an online marketing campaign with a good slashdotting.
That's cool. What I want to know is, how do you find maintaining this bleeding-edge level of gamer gear?
I ask because, honestly, the PC gaming rig puzzles me. Even with the basement-level prices you speak of ($400/box), it still strikes me as prohibitively expensive. I suppose it depends on your dedication ot the hobby.
Let me illustrate - I do most of my gaming on a PS2. My personal computer is a Mac, which isn't good for anything but the biggest mainstrain PC games (ala WarCraft).
PS2 = $US 200 (new when it came out)
PS2 game = $US 50
Now, this thing, if its anything like my PS1, will last me for about 3-4 years. I get to sit on a comfy couch, with friends who can also see clearly my large television, with my surround-sound stereo (that I already forked out for), and play 1st-rate video games. It boots very quickly, the graphics are great, most importantly the games are great. The controller is custom-designed just for gaming. It never crashes. I don't apply patches or download things, 99% of the unit's uptime is actively gaming.
Now, before you go off and shut me down, tell me.. you've got:
Gaming PC = $US 400
PC Game = $US 50
now add to that PC Game Controller = $US 35
Large Gaming PC monitor = $250
Good PC Speakers = $100 Windows license to run said Games = $50
How is that better? You're paying a premium for graphics and sound that are only ever going to be marginally better.
I know its not all about economics, but the games, man! You must have as much money as possible to buy games. That is the whole point.
How often do you update your rig? If it's 'fast', as in fast enough to run a cutting-edge PC game all the time, the turnover must be at least one a year, no? (Of course, the PC is more functional than a PS2, but we are talking about games, no?)
I wish you luck, PC Gamer, but I fear your days are numbered. The consoles are custom-designed to eat your lunch.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
This isn't really a videogame system: "The game console is an 'ALWAYS ON BROADBAND DEVICE.'"
Their business model is, apparently, to let publishers put their games online for download by "phantom" users. I bet the number 32,000 comes from the total number of games ever released, which could all, in theory, be played on a "windows based" system.
I bet this console is really just a PC with a broadband connection, a nice case, and a wireless controller.
Are you sure that putting (copyrighted) video games in public places constitutes public performance of a copyrighted work? For instance, I've never heard anyone suggest that cybercafes need a public performance license for Quake, or that using Matlab in an interactive demo during public talk (e.g. at a conference) needs a special Matlab license.
I'm guessing that using software does not constitute performance, public or otherwise.
-Paul Komarek
Vaporware = yes
Impossible = no
How can you have a game console that is faster than anything currently out there, broadband capable, and has 32,000 games to choose for not including casino and adult related?
Simple...
It is a PC, in a small profile system, running a 2ghz chip and either ATI or NVIDIA card. The unit, essentially, just plays all 32,000 PC games out there.
Look at it this way, these guys actually COUNTED how many PC Compatible games have been made.
AMEN!
DNF was named correctly, it will take them forever to write it.
Only time will tell if "Phantom" was also named appropriately.
On their "events" page, they list E3 and the Game Developer's Conference... yet they are not registered for either
I dont know, but is seems to me that verteran entrepeneurs who have a track record in building eCommerce and enterprise applications probably know squat about writing video games that are fun to play. I would think their only hope would be to get some of the big game devs (capcom, blizzard, etc) to write games for the system.
Take for instance the turbo graphics 16 system. One of the reasons why the system failed miserably was the fact that most of their games sucked because the writers of many of the games (at least the launch games) were not video game programmers.
Well just have to wait and see what this is all about. From what they say, it seem like a pretty good deal.
seamless upgrades and patch management
game rentals
cross platform capabilities
etc etc
I'm a bit stumped as to how they can claim that they make a 'fast' console. Quite frankly, I've never used a 'slow' console.
NTSC TVs have a maximum frame rate of 30 FPS (29.7 if you want to get technical). I don't find load times particularly offensive for most consoles now ( the N64 could load anything instantly). Almost every game I've ever played on a console could be played that 30FPS rate ALL THE TIME.
Do they want to turn up the quality of the graphics? It won't be FASTER, but it'll look nicer (although there's only so much you can do at 640x480 interlaced). Sure, you can play pong at 8,000 FPS (even though your TV can only display 30), but do you really WANT to?
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
Could this be amiga based?
This platform *MUST* act as an emulator, thus the *need* for it to have the most power of any console on the market.
Why do I say "must"?
32k games equals, roughly, the number of games ever created for all major consoles (and that includes both regional variants, and what MAME calls "clones", which usually make up half to two thirds of the known games for a given platform). Without including such almost-identical versions of the same game, 32k very well might equal the number of games written *ever*, for *any* platform.
No, I did not just pull this number out of the air. As of December 30th, the Cowering ROM ID tools included 33,586 games for "major" console systems (Atari, Nintendo, Sega, Intellivision, Coleco, TG16, NeoGeo). That does not include the Playstation or Xbox line, of course, as the games take up too much room on current hardware, even if a decent emulator existed. But I figure that would add another two to three thousand.
For comparison, the C64/Amiga line, arguably the longest running, most popular gaming platform of all time (though not really a console) only had 26k games. But this never-before-heard-of company has already beat that for their initial launch? Not very likely.
So, as my guess, they plan to push this on the retrogaming community, and possibly open it to "modern" ports (though I don't think they'll focus on that area, at least not unless/until they get a good market share). They can claim such a high number of games without already having licensed them for the same reason Nintendo now carries games written by Sega: They don't need to "steal" the original works, or make obscenely complicated licensing deals (as many people have suggested would hold true of and retrogaming platform). They'll just let the authors republish their original games (without even needing a rewrite, since very likely most of the source code for older consoles no longer exists), for a cut of the action.
On the bright side, I could see this as actually succeeding. Personally, I enjoy retrogaming, and would gladly pay a few bucks (perhaps even the price of a single "modern" game) for a *legal* CD with 50-100 classic games on it ($0.25 per game, with at least a quarter of them "good" games, sounds quite reasonable). I suppose this would have the number of people into classic video games as the biggest limiting factor, though.
... and we would have beaten Microsoft and Sony too if it hadn't been for those darn kids!!
:)
Sorry just had to say it
The Anti-Blog
So that must mean they're only 89 games short!
sulli
RTFJ.
I think calling him a Spokesdrone is an understatement. Check this answer out:
Except for the term Wi-Fi (and maybe synergy, although that's so 20th century), I think we've hit just about every buzz word in the English language.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
They claim:
I'll buy that that's the total number of games ever released for the PC, plus the number of games emulatable on the PC (MAME etc). Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.
I'm serious - why is the be all and all of what a console can do always measured by speed?
And anyway what speed?
In a modern machine be it PS2/XBox/PC the graphics CPU is as important as the main CPU.
So do we measure in clock speed - polygons per second - frame rate - operations per second - memory bandwidth....
At the end of the day the big secret is IT DOESNT MATTER
What MATTERS
a) Do the games play fast enough to be responsive?
b) Are the graphics convincing enough without being obviously limited
All of these are down to how well the game is programmed - who cares how cool the graphics are if it runs at 10 frames per second and takes half a second to respond to a button press - who cares if the graphics don't have quite the same number of polygons in if the game is moving so fast you don't notice.
Before I get flamed by the console-kin I am aware this only holds within certain bounds - if the hardware is lacking badly then even good code-craft will not help - but the PS2/XBox/Dreamcast/PC game experience can all be equally as good with a good game, and equally bad with a sucky game.
What matters more to me would be the range of games - the XBox is great when you play Halo, but what then? - and the convenience of the hardware - PS2s don't have hard drives so are suprisingly shock resistant, PC controllers always feel clumsy when compared to console ones but boy can you get a range (the problem here of course is its easy for a PS2 developer to figure out a really good button arrangement because all the controllers are roughly the same - god help PC developers who generally resort to letting the user map the keyboard)
The 'best' console is relatively easy to spot - its the one doing well in the market - the problem is PC 'consoles' don't show up because they are so flexible. At the end of the day the 'best' console is like a car - whatever is the best package for the person that buys it - otherwise we'd all be driving Ferrais (and I am not having a flame war on cars BTW)
For the record my choice would still be the PS2, its got great games, is well engineered and is just a good package.
As it happens I don't own any consoles, nor a bleeding edge PC (well it is, but for DV editing not polygon count) because most of the time I'm watching DVDs....
the uber-awesome Bitboys GPU!
As a (soon to be) CS grad, after reading through all of the promotional material for the "Phantom" I was amazed to find not one scrap of real technical information.
I'm not even sure that the PR guy they interviewed is even human. I don't think he'd pass a Turing test.
No kinds of hints as to what the underlying architecture might be. Nothing about the graphics / sound hardware. Nothing about the media format. I mean, these are the kinds of things that the hard-core really go for, and all they can say is that "it will please hard-core games." How?
Sorry to say, but my shifty cousin is one of these "entreprenuer" types. "Entrepreneur" usually means "scam artist" in my experience.
A bunch of veteran "entreprenuers" from Florida (that technological mecca)? This whole thing is obviously a scam for VC...
for great justice, this sig has been moved
http://www.mavav.org/
Remember this site? Kids in college had an assignment to come up with a fake gaming site. This Phantom (akin to Vapor-war) is obviously exactly the same thing.
To each his own, but as a serious gamer I feel obliged to respond to your post. But I'm tired of saying all this like a broken record so I'll try to keep it short.
;)
The whole PC vs console debate is so fucking dated and pedestrian that to make your assertion in any gaming circle will get you laughed out of the room. I don't think you mean badly, but I'll venture to guess that you're just mainly into a certain type of game. Nothing wrong with that, but I do take issue that you're spinning your personal preference in games as objective reason that [god-like-voice]PC's Are Better Gaming Systems Than Consoles[/god-like-voice].
I have the high end PC setup, and I agree that Battlefield 1942 cannot be enjoyed the way it should be on an XBox. Neither can Icewind Dale, Warcraft 3, or Space Quest 4. Now that we have that out of the way. I feel bad for you, the exclusive PC gamer, because you'll never enjoy the likes of Panzer Dragoon Orta, Garou: Mark of the Wolves, Metal Gear Solid 2, Soul Calibur, Ikaruga, Megaman 2, or Punch Out. Even if the above were ported/emulated to a PC (I think MGS2 might already be ported), they would be as bad as playing Starcraft on an N64 (*cough*).
So I'll keep my MAME cabinet, all my consoles, and my PC. I count myself lucky because I can afford to do so. If you want to get into console gaming, feel free to ask me (or someone like me) for recommendations. Don't worry, no one will tell your UT clanmates.
I kind of miss that amount of customability in games today. They increase the play value. Today, even though the games are much more complex, you can only play it one way, and when you win, there is no point in playing any more.
I don't know. If you are talking success the 2600, NES, SNES, GameBoy, PS1, and PS2 are the most successful systems of all time, and most of them are really, really ugly. The 3DO, TG-16, and Sega CD (1st edition) were all very, very pretty, and failed miserably in the market. The PS2 looks like an average a VCR, the financially successful N64 looked like someone threw a cartridge into a blob of clay, and the GameBoy looked like a boring beige box with a green screen when it first came out, especially compared to the vastly cooler Turbo Express, Lynx, Game Gear, and eventually Nomad and Neo Geo Express.
The SNES? Lavender and Beige? I mean, Lavender and Beige? How did this get past test marketing?
For that matter, no system in history has looked as cool relitive to their companions as the Neo Geo did back in the 16 bit era. That company no longer exists, of course.
I'm starting to wonder if very, very ugly systems stick out in consumers minds, thereby increasing sales. It couldn't be just that the name eminates the coolness factor: who didn't laugh the first time they heard the word "Playstation," "Dreamcast," "Ultra 64," "SuperNES," etc.
Perhaps those industry critics are right when they say that people decide on games to buy, then get the console to support them, rather than buying cool consoles to facilitate gaming. In that situation, the "WOW" factor is firmly where it belongs: with the developers. In the mean time, big players will probably continue to hire design professionals who have never touched a console in their lives. Look at the Playstation. Look at the Vaio line of computers. Which looks very, very cool, and which pads Sony's bottom line to the tune of several hundred million dollars per year?
This Sig is a mnemonic device designed to allow you to recognize this author in the future.
They've got a man who may or may not have the goods. If he hops next door and finds out anything interesting, they'll be the first to give us the lowdown (that it's a PC running emulators for old consoles).
Much more flexibility and immersiveness in games.
1) What do you mean by "flexibility"? A larger variety of games? Not true - I propose that the variety of game genres is roughly equivalent console/PC. I can't play Civ 2 on my PS2, but you can't play DDR on your PC.
2) More immersive? Vague nonsense. Immersiveness is all about personal experience with a game, and is generally totally independant of hardware. Tell me GTA3 isn't "immersive". Tell me Virtua Fighter 4 isn't "immersive".
No console can match the PC for depth of gameplay
Vague nonsense. What do you mean by "depth"? Virtua Fighter has astonishing tactical depth as well as unrivalled twitch gameplay.
and especially not for customization
OK, granted =]
A mod. And now it's the most popular FPS game in the world.
So? How is this relevant?
Consoles still have a looong way to go before they can compete with the PC
In terms of what? Sales? Hoo boy are you in for a shock =]
if you're a more serious gamer, then there's nothing out there that can beat a good PC
How about a custom built machine that never crashes, never needs patches, and has the most polished games with interfaces specifically designed for standardized controllers? You know, like a PS2? =]
grib.
maybe
Tetris level A
Tetris level B
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Tetris level ZZZZZZ