Buy a Moller SkyCar Prototype on eBay

HobbySpacer writes "Moller International has announced that it will offer its first working Skycar for sale on eBay starting January 31st - Press Release. The M400P prototype has repeatedly flown short hovering flights on tethers in tests since 2001 (see videos). The company warns that although '[a]ll systems are operational. Potential buyers are cautioned that this is a prototype model and considered an experimental aircraft.' Also, 'the Skycar has not yet been approved as a road vehicle.' A more powerful 2nd gen production version is currently under construction for longer untethered test flights this year."

Comments

So, u can buy a jestson's car now?

[Pionar]

How very Hanna-Barberaish.

Re:So, u can buy a jestson's car now?

[droopus]

Uh huh. What I don't get is once it collapses into a briefcase, how did Moller reduce the mass so you can actually lift the briefcase?

In case the sarcasm tag wasn't on, I no more believe that Moller can actually make a reliable flying car that gets 28mpg (running on good old Texaco Regular of course) @ 350mph @ 20k feet @ 65dba than they could accomplish the aforementioned mass-reduction-briefcase trick.

What they will offer is a hunk of red, expensive vaporware that sits in your garage like the Russian shuttle they tried to sell on ebay a year or so ago.

Maybe ebay should have a "got too much money sitting around?" section....

Question

[jdkincad]

Why would a flying car need to be approved as a road vehicle?

Re:Question

[lexarius]

You probably get better mileage if you don't have to expend lots of fuel keeping the thing up.

Two lane highway. Two trucks taking them up. Can't pass horizontally - pass vertically!

OK....

[KimiDalamori]

So, basically I can buy a car that is perfectly legal to leave in my garage and never take out. Wicked, I can see it now: "Dad, can I have the keys to the skycar?" "No, son, we're not sure yet whether or not it will blow up." ... I say if someone has the extra money to buy this thing, he can give it to me instead, I'll put it to better use.

Re:OK....

[Maniakes]

So, basically I can buy a car that is perfectly legal to leave in my garage and never take out.

You can drive it on your own property (or any private property w/approval of the owner), and you can fly it over international waters . I would think that you could fly it below a certain altitude over your own property, but I can't find a link.

So yes, completely useless for transport (unless you're Ted Turner and own millions of acres of land), this isn't much use as transport. But there's always the "Cool! I have a flying car!" factor, plus if Moller actually attains commercial success their prototype will have huge collector's value.

Re:OK....

[PurpleFloyd]

Experimental private aircraft are perfectly legal to fly (at least in the US); they just don't go through all the really heavy test-to-destruction stuff that the FAA requires for some components. Of course, they still need to be approved as airworthy, follow maintinance schedules, and have a big "EXPERIMENTAL" sticker posted on the side, but if you could prove it's airworthy, you could fly it to your heart's content.

<DISCLAIMER TYPE="LONGWINDED,DUMB">
Note that I am not an FAA representative; if you want to license your airplane, talk to someone who is. I take no responsibility for anyone trying to replicate the Spruce Goose in their spare time, then flying it, crashing, and saying "It's OK, I read it on Slashdot"! Don't be a moron. Please.
</DISCLAIMER>

Re:OK....

[Sacarino]

Finally a /. topic I have some decent knowledge about.

A homebuilt/amateur-built aircraft - otherwise known as experimental - is one that the builder builds 51% of the aircraft.

They must be inspected by an FAA Inspector or a Designated Inspector (essentially the same, similar to a contract position) in order to get an airworthiness certificate. You cannot expect to get away with slapping a gyrocopter blade on your lawnmower and flying around Podunk, Iowa (Not legally, anyways).

Per the Experimental Aircraft Association
The builder(s) must provide logs of when, where and how construction took place, along with supporting documents and photographs. If the aircraft passes this inspection, a pilot must fly between 25-40 hours of test flights in specific non-populated areas to make sure all components are operating properly. Only after that test time is flown may passengers be flown in the aircraft.

Anyway, in reference to the question about where you could operate this contraption at.... In accordance with federal aviation reg (FAR) 91.319, you and your skycar would be limited to joyrides (no charging!) over non-dense population areas (no flying through downtown Manhattan) operations in visual conditions during the day only.

Densely populated areas are shown on aviation sectional charts as yellow (that's the shape the lights of the city look like at night from altitude) so as long as you avoid those you should be ok. You might want to check with your local FAA Flight Standards District Office (FSDO - pronounced "Fizz-do") to get the information straight from the horse's mouth, legal-wise.
As far as the regs go, FAR91.119 states
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.

Right after MOO3...

[TrixX]

So I guess Duke Nukem Forever is coming out soon.

The flying Exoeskeleton

[ToKsUri]

Any relationship with the flying exoskeleton also sold at ebay? Are all thie flying vehicles prototypes ending at ebay? Is no one succeeding to end in a real shop?

Question

[unterderbrucke]

Why would anyone buy this?

It isn't approved for traffic, and it's pretty much a useless prototype.

oh well, ebay auctions are great for slashdot articles at least...

Um... why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why on earth would a company with something as groundbreaking as a flying car sell the prototype, especially a functional version?

Surely it would be the one that you'd want to keep and the one that has the most company history in it so to speak. In any case, selling the prototype off seems very strange...

Re:Um... why?

[lexarius]

Because the prototype is useless. Oh, sure, it flies and all, but what is a company going to do with a prototype? It's the designs that matter. The prototype is just to prove that the designs work and find where the flaws are. After that, it is an asset that isn't doing any work. So they turn it into money so they can afford to make the next version.

Re:Um... why?

[JohnFluxx]

Personally I think it's all about insurance.

It said that it can't do untethered flight because the insurance would go way up. Also they haven't yet tried any manned flights for the same reason.

What they want is for someone to fly it. They are banking on that someone who pays $1m for a flying car is actually going to want to use it.
Then they just check the darwin awards every day to see how long it lasts... :)

I want one...

[Kshu]

And anyone who knows how roads in Romania look like will agree with me...

Affordable?

[theNote]

The site says the car is "personally affordable".

Then, when you click on the purchase link you find out it costs $1,000,000.

Doh!

[JohnFluxx]

I was all set to place a bid, and had my millions ready to put down. I complied with everything they wanted, then I saw right near the end it said:

"You must be 18 years of age or older to Bid."

dammit.

if 1000 slashdot readers jump on the car

[deft]

will it come down as fast as the server came down when 1000 slahsdot readers jumped on it?

Ah. eBay.

[Big Mark]

I'm seriously tempted to put a bid in for this and not pay. I'd get the mother of all negative feedback then!

Negative from SkyCar: Seller didn't pay and is a cunt. E-
Response by ukmarkyboy: Admit it. You're the goatse man.

-Mark

Looks like

[gearheadsmp]

they'll have to use the income from the sale on e-bay to buy a new web server after this Slashdotting.

Moller...bwahahahahaha

[Alioth]

Moller's Skycar has been "six months away from flight" for longer than I've been alive. The thing is a nightmare from an inteference drag standpoint, and his figures for fuel consumption are totally unrealistic (especially as the BSFC for the type of engine he's using is worse than traditional spark-ignition reciprocating engines).

Based on Moller's track record, the thing will _never_ fly. All it does is suck investment money. He's even worse than Bede (at least a few of Bede's aircraft actually flew and were successful).

Re:Moller...bwahahahahaha

[jerryasher]

The way autorotation works on a helicopter (not a gyrocopter) is truly amazing. It converts stored energy (height) into rotational energy (you rotate (twist) the blade to decrease their angle of attack "bite" so they spin really fast). Meanwhile you plummet. That's not true. You don't plummet. (But it sure looks that way.)

When you get close to the ground (one chance!) you convert the rotational energy into lift. You retwist the blades generating enough lift to slow you to landing speed.

I've only watched practice sessions. But I think the next step is to change your shorts.

Re:Moller...bwahahahahaha

[spun]

My friend's dad taught helicopter flight in the navy. Two things would actually require a change of shorts on occasion. Autorotation landing was one. He also used to reset the altimiter in dual engine helicopters and have the cadet try to restart the engine before the copter crashed. The poor cadets would think they were about to pancake on the ground when they failed to restart the engine in time, when in reality they had hundreds of feet to spare.

Now why would picturing some poor sap's mortal terror be so funny to me?

You couldn't do that with autorotation practice, though. Like you said, you have one shot to do it right, otherwise you have used up all your rotational energy and are too close to the ground to restart the engines. You have to do it at the right time, I believe that the ground effect has something to do with it working right as well.

Scary!

Re:I hear the next version...

[rusty0101]

With or without the Flux capacitor, or the underseat accessory packages?

Ok...

[Cyno01]

But when are we going to get the flying cars?!? Oh wait...

Test pilot

[duckpoopy]

This is their way of tricking some fool into paying to be the test pilot.

Pigs are flying...

[spac]

First MOO3, now a flying car?

Can you hear that? It's hell... freezing over.

Vaporware no more?

[bandwidthsignal]

It's funny, I thought that Duke Nukem Forever would come out before flying cars did...

Roads? Where we're going...

[mraymer]

...we don't need roads!

[cue Back to the Future theme]

Now, someone please tell me... when can I get my hands on a damn Mr. Fusion?! Ugh...

Legal to fly

[mikewas]

This falls within the experimental aircraft catagory. This includes just about any aircraft that didn't come off of an assembly line including one-of-a-kind or kit-built aircraft as well as aircraft not designed for commercial use like warbirds.

The Experimental Aircraft Asscociation is a group of people interested in these types of aircraft. There's a large airshow hosted by them in Osh Kosh.

These aircraft are subjected to thorough inspection by certified mechanics and FAA inspectors during their construction or restoration. In addition, owners of this type of aircraft tend to be more knowledgable than your average privat pilot. The result is that aircraft certificated (it's an FAA term, not a typo) as experimental aircraft have an excellent safety record. You can fly them anywhere any other private aircraft may be flown.

Re:Uhm...

[Catbeller]

They need the money. Seriously need it.

All the power to them: Moeller's been at this his whole life and he deserves to win one.

And Kevin Smith should buy the freaking flying car!

Re:I hear the next version...

[EricV314a]

Do you mean it will be funded by cocaine trafficking?

Let's say these machines....

[Effofx]

become legal.

Will there be a need for "flying" insurance?
Will "fly-by" shootings get an extra ordinary amount of media attention like their grounded counterparts.
Will fast food "fly-throughs" replace drive-up windows?
How will the government tax - air space tax?

is it just me

[andih8u]

or does that thing look like it could transform into an autobot? --

Re:Uhm...

[RPI Geek]

If it is still a protype and experimental then why don't they just wait until it is far more developed...

Well, the fact that it's considered an experimental aircraft does not necessarily mean it's unsafe. Just by the fact that it's flown (tethered or not) I'm sure that they've gone through the design process many times over.

I used to fly Cessnas, and while I was at the airport, I'd frequently see a canard-style plane that was rated as experimental simply because it was a kit plane and the owner built it in his garage. The plane was not unsafe; the owner told me that it had excellent stall characteristics, that it gave a smoother ride than most conventional small planes he's been in, and that it was generally easier to fly because it had better visibility in all directions. Also, a friend of my father is building an amphibious plane in his garage, and once he gets it flying, it will be also be considered experimental simply because it's a kit plane. The plans for the particular model he's making are constantly changing, and many of the minor changes are his doing because he found better ways to build it as he progressed.

Sorry for such a long post, I just wanted to clear up any confusion you had about 'experimental' meaning 'untested', because they are VERY different terms.

Who would want one?

[Anonymous Coward]

How the hell is this ever going to replace the automobile? Listen to the noise that thing makes! It's like a couple dozen chainsaws all in chorus. The people who are near the testflights have to wear ear protectors and some kind of face masks to keep dust and other debris out of their mouth while breathing.

Conversation of the future:

Dad: OK kids! Let's get ready to fly! Don't forget your ear plugs and dust masks!
Kids: Yay!

Not anywhere

[rufusdufus]

You cannot fly experimental aircraft anywhere any other private aircraft may be flown. There are specific restrictions. From the FARs:

"No person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental certificate over a densely populated area or in a congested airway"

This includes over large cities and congested airspace within (usually) 30 miles of a large airport.