Slashdot Mirror
Finally: PC-to-Phone Calling from Linux
Greg Herlein writes "There is finally a way to do direct PC to Phone calling from linux: GnomeMeeting
now supports decent quality, low-cost VoIP calls to any real phone in the world. It's about time." The calls are through a company called MicroTelco; read this FAQ page to learn more about it. (And don't forget TheKompany's approach to IP-telephony-with-Linux, using a Sharp Zaurus plus Net2Phone.)
And it supported strong encryption on the phone calls, too...
Admittedly somewhat less user friendly, but it's been around for years.
GnomeMeeting has potential, too.
Linux Journal had an article covering this in its Jan. edition.
Since the subject of this said phone calling from Linux i was thinking of some weird kernel patch. Since it was some Gnome software, it was not linux. Linux is the kernel, and only that. I bet that Gnome program would work just as fine on for example a BSD system that it does on Linux.
Note to self: get smarter troll to guard door.
Sorry, but i've yet to ever investigate this very interesting field.
The faq and the features page are not written too well.
What tools can i use to do pc-pc calls over linux?
-- -- --
Help my mini cause: My journal
ET got there first and all he had was a Speak 'n' Spell...
... your relatives and friends live in a country with decent network infrastructure.
:p
I have tried Net2Phone and various cheap calling cards and find that while it works calling, say, Singapore, calling Indonesia is another matter.
Still, quite nice. Perhaps I'll start calling up people I know in the States
Time to get a world clock set up on my desktop...
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
What is lacking is the use of your soundcard + software codec to do this. I understand there are patent problems, but the best solution would be a net2phone-style software solution, ported to Linux.
Windows for net2phone is one of the few uses I have left. Living in Morocco, it saves me $$$ every month to call Europe.
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
It seems nice to be able to make phone calls from my linux boxen, but what I want to know is, when will I be able to _recieve_ calls? I couldn't find that answer in the FAQ. Also, is it possible to have, say, more than one of these cards, to get the VoIP equivalent of multiple phone lines, using a broadband connection?
Despite millions of years of evolution, human beings, taken as a group, are still stupid, panicky animals.
And if your ISP's terms of service do not prohibit voice over IP...
For those living in Brazil (and other countries, maybe?): most DSL providers (the one which offers the DSL link, not the ISPs who authenticate you and offer e-mail, DNS servers, etc) won't allow you to use voice over IP. Reasons seem to be:
How many people ACTUALLY make calls from their computer? Although I understand it is free, the quality still doesn't compare to a regular phone (not even a cell phone -- don't get me started on those).
I remember making calls back in... '98 when this was a new technology, and I stopped after about 2 weeks.
Poll Question - Do you really make calls that often from your computer?
Does anybody know of any IP/POT-gateways like the one mentioned in the article, that are outside the US? For example in Germany? In the UK?
TIA
egghat.
-- "As a human being I claim the right to be widely inconsistent", John Peel
The FAQ makes it sound like the only way to place one of these calls is with a normal phone plugged into this special hardware device. Is this true?
... what does using gnome meeting do for us? Just give a gui to configure & dial the phone? Doesn't sound like news, but maybe I'm missing something.
Oh sure, it looks like I can dial with gnome meeting, but do I have to talk through the normal analog phone? If this is the case
A killer app would be PDA-PDA calls encrypted over IP.
I don't mind paying service charges for VOIP, but I'm surprised I need to buy hardware.
Even if it doesn't work as well, VOIP should be accessible with a soundcard and a microphone. I'm not so excited by this announcement.
---
I support spreading santorum
Now these guys are true Marketing guys..
The chick in the screen shots is hot.
Got Code?
GnomeMeeting is european and yes it works well with Europe phone numbers
Is there a way to do kind of the same thing, but call from my computer to another computer with an IP phone attached to it? I'd love to just get rid of the phone company all together, and use the internet as my phone service. Just get all my family setup on VoIP phones attached to their broadband internet connection, and just give them a call that way.
Anyone know if that is possible? (I havn't googled yet, but plan to, so if you know, let me know of a link or whatever)
I have no signature
Unfortunately, most of it is commercial ... although the SME server software is open source and available from the E-Smith developer site. Still, their voip stuff looks standards-based, so hopefully it interoperates with other stuff.
Linux? Great. When is the hardware coming out? Forget pc based calls. When am I going to be able to plug a phone in to my router and call around the world for free?
Whale
You can use Net2Phone http://web.net2phone.com/products/commcenter/downl oad.asp
From the article:
5.2. Why do I currently have to buy a Quicknet card if I want to do PC-To-Phone calls?
All providers need the G.723.1 audio codec to be able to do PC-To-Phone calls. That codec is patented and can't be added directly into the GnomeMeeting code. However, buying a Quicknet card offers you other features that will also be useful if you are not doing PC-To-Phone calls.
(Emphasis mine).
Hm, only one vendor is listed on the Gnome meeting website -- their cheapest card is US$109.
On a Windows PC, you don't need a card - the soundcard and CPU are sufficient for PC-to-Phone.
I guess Microsoft pays the codec royalties -- and a copy of Windows XP Home off pricewatch.com is US$90.
*Grin* I think only hardcore Linux users will followup on this article.
I wonder if it's possible to convince the telcom company they're using as their gateway ("MicroTelco") to accepts voice calls using a free codec (the new Ogg Vorbis voice codec comes to mind).
She is belgian, she is the developer's (Damien Sandras) girlfriend. They are both great persons!
H.323 is more complicated than other protocols because it uses two tcp connections and several UDP sessions from a single "call".Only one of the tcp connections goes to a well known port; all the other ports are negotiated and thus temporary. Furthermore the content of the streams is far more difficult for firewall to understand than existing protocols, becuase h.323 encodes packets using Abstract Syntax Notation (ASN.1)
#3 pencils and quadrille pads.
Well, for those of us that got sold on the Slashdot article on the Creative Labs VoIP Blaster, I have good new! The diary for Damien Sandras (the author of the GnomeMeeting project) indicates that GnomeMeeting supports VoIPBlaster which provides GM access to the patented G.723.1 audio codec without having to buy a $100+ LinuxJack card. If only MicroTelco could convince SB to mass produce the VoIP Blaster again...
This was always possible, using a Cisco 3660 with a voice card, and SIP.
Simply dial sip:1800429739@1.2.3.4:5060 with any software SIP phone for Linux, and you're good... granted the hardware would cost you around 10,000 plus the monthly service fee for a 4 channel BRI (at least).
SuPz.orG
PC-to-Phone calls are still not ready on Linux, and they cost money to do. According to the GnomeMeeting FAQ: Step 3: Register a MicroTelco account on http://www.linuxjack.com.
However, when you go to linuxjack.com, it says that they will be adding accounts for MicroTelco on their site SOON (marketing word for "whenever"), and you can't just use a regular MicroTelco account like you would on Windows.
This is only really good news if you'd use voip-voip, or if all this proprietary technology actually works.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
I'm sick of all that USA-centric advertising
Is slashdot now showing ads for soap? I could see those ads not doing well in Europe.
I'd like to see your face though...
Nice!
Why use a desktop computer at all? I'm more impressed by services like Vonage. They give you a little POTS-to-Ethernet gizmo that you plug in anywhere behind your firewall, and you just connect any phone to it. Pick up the receiver and you hear a dial tone. Dial a number and it goes out over the Internet. You never have to bother with the computer. The computer doesn't even have to be turned on. Let's face it, if you're a geek, or even a lesser gadget freak, you've already got multiple computers sitting behind a firewall or mini-router on a broadband connection. So you just plug this thing in and go.
QuickNet's service appears to be cheaper. I was going to sign up for it, but I don't like the idea of having to have a program running on a desktop to keep the dial tone available. That's the problem with most Windows-based programs that do things like this, and it's no better when someone does it on Linux. (Ok, it's a little better, but this type of thing belongs either in a daemon or in dedicated hardware.)
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
I think using this, someone should develop a server farm of cheap-o Linux boxes coloated somewhere in... Newark - NJ seems to always get the sleaze, so this shouldn't be any different.
Then on each of those machines, they fire up this "call someone via a linux box" technology and then they use that "read aloud this text in some funky voice" code.
They just dial through a list of home numbers and spout off whatever text they are given "dear so and so, would can I interest you in a magic carpet that will do dishes and give you amazing oral sex?"
They give the person the option to press the number 7 to speak with a real person to order said product, or the person just hangs up all pissed off.
This way, it is the same as regular telemarketing, but you don't need as many operators to make the call - a $300 machine can make multiple calls at the same time and do thousands of them without tiring - over multiple time zones.
You only need to keep a staff to monitor the outcome of successful calls, therefore there are lower costs and higher profit margins!
Spam is the e-mail crap that we don't want... it is slimy and gross and nobody likes it... I will call my idea "Oprah" - as in:
*slams down phone*
"Bastards! I hate that damn Oprah!!"
you saw it here first. I am a marketing god.
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
Looking at the quicknet technologies site the internet phone jack card seems to be a single port beast.
I would like to support 20 users in an office with 12-15 incoming lines.
Am I supposed to build a pc with 15 pci slots, one per card?
Budget: $AU 9-15k (approx 4 - 8k US).
I have actually been working on a hardware/software solution for this. Instead of buying a Quicknet Internet Line Jack for $600, I am working on a few mods to this kit so it can be controlled via the parallel port instead of by the telephone hook.
On the software side, I am using some RTP software I am working on to transfer audio between machines. So what does this all mean? With some custom hardware and software I will be able to have household (neighborhood) telephone service using any computer on my network.
If anyone is interested stop by www.magicicecreambucket.com in a few weeks for information on building this device for yourself for under $60 and some software for it.
I use voip phone service but I don't use software. http://www.vonage.com They mail you a cisco ata 186 for free. A monthly fee does apply.
Just wait few more weeks - and you'll be able to talk using yuor Net2Phone accounts WITH Linux native client, and you'll be able to use better codec than Speex..
;)
Patience..
nah, no sig... move on..
The only thing that would make it sound even more commie is if it were called "ThePeoplesKompany".
That's why I use a Plantronics headset. Good build and good sound at a good price. There others are nice as well. I have one for my cellphone. And yes I'm a satisfied customer.
Hi, I bought a Creative WebCam Pro ex (USB) device, only to find it doesn't seem to work with Linux. I've tried all kinds of things. If anybody has gotten this to work, can you please let me know? Please post your modules.conf too ;-)
:(
I've tried the latest ov511/ov518 drivers with v4l patches.
Doesn't seem to be recognized.
Needs emphasis --
Bigzoo.com: 2.9 cents per minute inside the U.S., 4.4 cents per minute to France from the U.S. Sound quality perfect. Honest company.
http://www.gnomemeeting.org/screenshots/latest/Gno meMeeting_In_A_Call_With_Stats.png
;)
Now ever horny net geek on slashdot will be emailing her...
Next time BLANK OUT THE EMAILS!
According to this article, AT&T have devised a technology that won't even tie up your Linux box. I am having one hell of a time keeping pace with the latest innovations.
Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise. - William Shakespeare
I can do it for free over AIM and MSN messenger.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
VoIP no, but "callback" yes. Give 'em time.
(Phone rings)
"Hello?"
"Hi! I'm calling on a Linux box"
"Oh."
"..."
"..."
"Well, see ya" *click*
I used to use dialpad.com on linux several
years ago. So this definately isn't the
first.
I have recently gotten a MAC but I want to do
:( no highspeed available at a reasonable cost at my location here in Fairfax, VA)
video chat to a friend that has a PC. I was using
Yahoo but it dosn't seem to do audio.
Does anyone know of any programs that will do this? Thank you. (I only have a dialup
well, the real question is... does it come with a hot girl to talk to?
(check out the screenshots)
why use voip? why not use something like www.sms2call.com? use sms, web or a desktop app to activate the call for you... I've been using it for a year now, and it's hella cheap, uses regular phone lines, and has better quality than any voip service has ever offered. ever tried calling Guatemala from Canada using voip? no? there's a damn good reason for that. =)
mmmm... sms enabled... me likey sms...
If the calls are displayed as "unavailable," "no caller id," or "none" (depends on the caller, local phone system, and handset), then it might be necessary to employ much tricker means. This is a long shot, but it might be possible to link up a serial port to a phone/modem (works w/ many cell phones too if you can get the datasheet for the pinouts) and perform a little trickery.. In this case, you initiate the IP call and then send one well-timed ring over the landline/mobile to send your valid caller ID info. This assumes the recipient has caller id-enabled call waiting.
I don't know.. Maybe there just needs some inquiry/interest in the way MicroTelco does it and they'd be happy to help.
I've gotten sick of defending myself and my gender time and time again, but I'll do so one last time. Just because most people on slashdot is male doesn't make me male, just as having most people on slashdot be of a certain race or nationality or religion doesn't assure that any single individual shares those characteristics. But I can cope, since in the greater scheme of things, it's no big deal that a few ACs continue to have their doubts.
There is a bigger problem, though. Go ahead and look at my previous comments. Nearly every one of them has one or five AC replies to the effect of "suck my dick" or "I want to fuck you in the ass". Throughout history, female authors have been denied recognition for their work, because it was commonly assumed that women were incapable of creating what they created. And throughout history, women have been spat upon, threatened, battered, and gangraped by the same men you'll find here on slashdot. For all I know, you yourself are one of those same ACs.
Ask yourself what you gain by contributing to this climate of fear and hate. Ask yourself that question when you scurry off for your nightly porn fix. Ask yourself that question when you insult and harass people on slashdot.
jonita (posting anonymously because of modbombing and IP ban)
VoIP no, but "callback" yes. Give 'em time.
Yes... I think someone told me calback is already illegal in South Africa (could someone confirm that?) -- but I don't see how callback would be worse to telcos than VoIP...
One thing I don't like about Vonage is that you have to use their Cisco ATA-186(the "POTS-to-Ethernet gizmo" you mentioned). Of course, they password protect it and provision it themselves, so it can only be used with their service. This means you don't get to play with this nifty device, 'cause they've locked you out. Goes against the hacker spirit, seems more like the Microsoft "we've set this up for you for your own protection" thing. I even emailed them to ask if I could use my own ATA, here is their response:
"We do not currently offer service on devices that we do not provide. We do include the Cisco ATA 186 free of charge. We do appreciate your interest in our service. Please do let us know if we may be of further assistance."
Why would you want to configure the Cisco ATA yourself? Well, you might want to try Free World Dialup, or you might want to play with VOCAL from vovida.org. Or whatever.
What I did was to buy a Cisco ATA-186 myself from YesMicro for about $170 with shipping. Then, I got an account at iconnecthere.com and set up my ATA using their setup instructions (it's a Word file, oh well...). I pick up the phone, and it works. When I make a call, they just charge me by the minute (2.9 cents to the U.S.). They have other plans that are cheaper, if you make a lot of calls. If you want to send and receive calls, you can do that for $8.95/month, or $10.95/month for a toll-free number (first hour is included, extra minutes at $0.10/minute). I don't, however, need my own phone number. So, here was my decision-making process, in a nutshell:
With Vonage, if I don't need my own phone number, too bad, no discount; I get a phone number anyway. I still can't tinker with the Cisco ATA, and I still need to give it back (it's not like I could do anything with it anyway, since it's locked down). $39.95 for unlimited calls to the U.S.
With iconnecthere, if I don't need my own phone number, then I don't pay the extra $8.95/month. However, I need to buy the Cisco ATA. Assuming a cost of $170, it would cost me $14.16/month to pay for it. Taking the cost of the Cisco into account, $39.95 buys me 1404 minutes/month, or about 47 minutes/day. Without the cost of the Cisco, it's 1767 minutes/month, or almost an hour/day.
However, I don't make a lot of calls every day. So, with iconnecthere, I can just pay by the minute. Assuming I make about 15 minutes of calls/day, that's $24.16/month including the cost of the Cisco as above, or $10/month not including the cost of the Cisco (with their 1000 minutes for $10 plan). Plus, I have the fun of being able to hack around on the Cisco ATA, and it's mine to keep.
So, in conclusion, if you don't want to hack around on your Cisco ATA, you don't mind giving it back, and you make over an hour's worth of calls every single day, go with Vonage. If you want to hack your Cisco ATA, own it, and make less than an hour's worth of calls a day, iconnecthere seems to be a better option.
Um... doesn't it require GTK 2.0 at the very least?
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
--I used to use ICU with a serial port webcam and voice on my old mac 180 mghz tower on a slow modem (my connection maxed at 19.2 and it still worked, which is amazing), worked OK although not perfect obviously, the video was slow but there, the voice was legible, and you had the typed chat program built in as well if the voice was bad that day. Talked to my bro all the time with his windows pc and cam, and some person in japan and some other countries. I imagine the tech has improved a lot since then, this was back in 97 and 98.
My brother called me last week from his Gateway computer. The quality and speed were excellent from a 56k modem. What was Gateway putting on computers 2 years ago?
The only thing that let me know it was through a PC was the 4 second wait to allow audio after I picked up the phone.
The only link that matters in any discussion of linux telephony is
www.asteriskpbx.org
I am on the mailing list. It is an _awesome_ project. I'm just waiting for enough disposable income to buy the 24port FXO devkit.
If you've ever wanted to build your own customizable, modular PBX system, asterisk is the thing to have. That it happens to be in production _today_ at multiple homes and businesses as an H.323 to POTS gateway is what makes it related to this story.
If you want to use gnomephone for _free_, use asterisk, _today_.
Someone could setup an IAX box in each of the NXX/NPA's in the usa and build thier own FREE ld network _today_ if they wanted to.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
I also love my VOIP blaster + Fobbit solution..
I regularly make calls between Seattle and Virginia.
BUT, I have found the fobbit code to be very unstable. It frequently requires a restart of the 'vb' program or an unload/load of the module. This problem only occurs when initiating calls. Once you are speaking, there really aren't any issues.
So far I have been lazy about fixing the code, but it is getting old..
Interestingly, there is no background noise due to the extremely short run of copper (from your phone to the VOIP). Sometimes you wonder whether your connection is still open.
I totally agree with you. The problem here is not that the tech isnt available - or even that the quality is not quite as good as a POTS yet...
The problem is the mindset of the consumers who actually use this stuff.
For example -
The biggest hurdle that things like this have to overcome is the way that this technology is simplified and pushed out the the end consumers (the ones who dont think about technology at all)
The thing is that when Joe User goes to use the phone his goal is to TALK to someone. The regular phone is so established and so easily understood that the challenge is getting new and better ways of making communications fit *perfectly* into the existing public image of the phone and how calls are made.
Here are the problems with doing this:
Form Factor: You need to get these devices to look exactly and work exactly like the ordinary phones that people are used to.
Industry Resistance: Major telcos will resist this technology as long as they possibly can - because the regular phone systems that they have in place make them so much money that making any changes to the communications industry is going to be difficult. They will only start accepting these things when they are in a position to monopolize it. For example these systems can work so easily in a wireless IP based network - but getting the industry to start pushing for that will not happen (I wont go into all the billing and security issues of wireless at this point - even though that is the reason why the major telco's wont push WISPs for a while).
The communications companies dont want you to be able to have one device for calls, organizer, music, internet access, camera etc *unless* they control it and make money on it.
If you want to have this stuff become widespread and cheap - you need to get a company to start doing this *before* its too late and the only companies with enough money and all the control to make is a reality are companies like AT&T and their subs (cometa).
I know that I dont want a company like SBC, AT&T, pac bell or any cell company to handle *all* my traffic in the future. These co's have a proven history of abusing consumers over charging and just having crappy customer service.
Here is the opportunity to bring the communications industry closer to the consumer - and setting up a new model. The opportunity to have a company come in and setup a wifi based telco/isp in major metro areas is perfect right now... the only worrying thing is that the telcos are the only people with the cash and current infrastructure to implement at this point.
anyway - as you can probably tell I dont like AT&T or telcos that much - and I think that now is the best time to go after them. There is more - so much more - but I am tired... you get the idea.
... and both under Linux ... the hope and dream for all of us out in the woods and off the grid.
Yea, and I'm sick of seeing programs like Sendmail, Apache, The GNOME set of programs called "Linux".
We all have our crosses to bear.
Who would believe that the guy who designed this would be in a conversation with the girl in the screenshots?
... as I understand nothing about this stuff.
:-P
But google for "linux telephony" and you'll find some companies which are in that biz.
Also, there's a project called "Bayonne" (google it), free and all, which may be what you want.
About this, OTOH, I know nothing, too...
HTH.
(I know about Vonage, but their AUP requires that you use the provided device as the call endpoint. I want it to be my box at Rackspace and my own call processing software instead.)
--
There is no hatred more pure and true than that expressed by children.
I bet my money on this:Labtec Verse 504 I got it for only $8.88 at the local walmart and has really good noise cancelling technology. No headsets needed, voice comes out flawlessly, and easily THE best mic for its price range.
Don't they have hidden charges? Bigzoo.com charges 75 cents per month to new customers.
The following is why GnomeMeeting or at least the "PC-to-Phone" aspect should be ignored:
"5.2. Why do I currently have to buy a Quicknet card if I want to do PC-To-Phone calls?
All providers need the G.723.1 audio codec to be able to do PC-To-Phone calls. That codec is patented and can't be added directly into the GnomeMeeting code. However, buying a Quicknet card offers you other features that will also be useful if you are not doing PC-To-Phone calls."
I.e.: Using it requires endorsing inherently invalid patents (codecs, like all math, are not patentable under historical patent law and should not be now).
my dream is to run lots of 10/100basedT wiring around the neighbourhood, power the hubs/switches to connect it all with solar power. Plug in regular pulse/tone dial phones into a small self-powered "telephone to ethernet" RJ11/RJ45 adaptors. The adaptor handles all the telephony/funny protocols (with the help of an embedded inux or bsd) and let's you dial out to IP addresses. And the phone rings for incoming calls to your IP address. The IP address and embedded software is configurable, of course.
Your comment doesn't make sense at all. SpeakFreely doesn't permit to do PC-To-Phone calls. You tell to people to use SpeakFreely because G.723.1 is needed to do PC-To-Phone calls with GnomeMeeting. Simply do PC-To-PC calls with Open Source software (GnomeMeeting) then with open codecs then.
My comment makes perfect sense. The GnomeMeeting page states that all PC-to-Phone providers require a patented codec. This is stupid and unacceptable. Said providers should be boycotted until they allow the use of an open codec as well. As you say, until this happens, people will have to do without PC-to-Phone and use Speakeasy for PC-to-PC instead. In other words, if people ignore bogus-IP-law-endorsing technologies, the correct solutions will evolve to provide the same function. Of course, I don't expect anyone will be willing to wait and another technology will be locked up by IP law abusers.
No your comment doesn't make sense. Why should they use SpeakFreely for PC-To-PC calls and not GnomeMeeting? That's where your comment doesn't make sense at all.
Why haven't you read the SlashDot FAQ yet?