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ReactOS 0.1.0 Released
JasonFilby writes "ReactOS 0.1.0 has been released! ReactOS is an Open Source effort to develop a quality operating system that is compatible with Windows NT applications and drivers. In this release, among other new features and fixes, especially worth mentioning are the ability to boot from CD and self-hosting capabilities (ReactOS can be compiled on ReactOS)." ReactOS has been in progress for a while, often tied to other projects with the aim of seamlessly replacing Windows: you can download an image of Bochs 2.0 with ReactOS 0.1.0 preloaded from the download and changelog page.
todyas date: feb. 2
my pet machine
From the site, the focus seems to be on 4.0, not 2K/XP. While this will be great for those who have a huge amount of time and effort invested in implimenting an NT4.0 environment, it doesn't make much sense for someone who has migrated to 2K/XP to move back to ReactOS.
I do think this is really cool though, and I plan to keep my eye on this. With any luck it'll come far enough to start implimenting 2k/Xp compatibility.
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
This could be useful for people who don't want to fork out for NT/have to use MS products...
And finally, <stupid_comment>Oh look! An MS ad!</stupid_comment>
How many Operating Systems do we actually need?
Three OS for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Redmond where the Shadows lie.
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Redmond where the Shadows lie.
"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them." -- George H. W. Bush
I wonder if ReactOS, if they become successful, might end up in a bit of legal trouble from Microsoft. I'm sure MS has patents and copyrights up the wazoo on Windows NT, and is not afraid to take advantage of them. Remember how they arrogantly sued the company they bought MS-DOS from out of existence because they were worried they would add multitasking to it? Even though that company had some contractual rights to the IP MS purchased from them, which ReactOS hasn't.
If you thought Mono was a legal minefield, this is has to be akin to strinking and flicking matches in dynamite wharehouse.
Where are the screenshots?
Oh, that's why.
This isn't going to replace Windows anytime soon if it doesn't have a graphical interface of any sort.
Anyone that wants NT4 with a GUI front end could always try NT4 from Microsoft.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
While this is cool a bunch of guys with time on their hands figured out how to get binary compatility with NT, the one thing that holds people to NT now(XP/2k) is the direct X layer between hardware and OS.
It's still a pretty good feat though and is noteworthy of frontpage news. If the authors are reading would you mind answering a few questions?
1. What timeline do the authors see for adding a directX layer?
2. Do you forsee using the wineX code for reference or will you rewrite it from scratch?
I don't know. I see headless NT boxes from time to time. They make pretty good routers and web servers, after all. A "free" machine that could run IIS would be a killer in some Windows shops.
-- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
Is this actually intended to supplant Windows on the desktop, or is it more aimed at small embedded systems? Or alternately, is there a parallel project that aims to replace Windows CE for the latter? I know there are a lot of similarities between NT4 and CE.
I am not personally a fan or a "user" (hah!) of Windows, but I have...friends...who might be interested in a "sidegrade" to an open-source embedded OS which is WinCE compatible. If nothing else we might be able to improve the security and reliability of embedded applications that have already been developed for Microsoft OSes. There is nothing worse than a small, single-purpose appliance - say for making toast - that can't perform reliably because the underlying OS is faulty, or constantly requires patches to assure peace of mind (hah!).
Could I interest anyone in some toast?
Microsoft Word XP, watch your back!
Don't forget to visit *nix.org.
Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate. Ex-O'Reilly/MIT employee, now a full-time Google employee.
How many Operating Systems do we actually need?
IKIGTGMDFTB:
Just one good one.
(Still waiting...)
And remember that it's already hard to buy new NT4 licenses and it will become even harder when MS completely stops selling them (except from eBay, of course).
Yes, a free (as in bird, not as in Willy) replacement for NT4 could save quite a lot of companies that did "embedded NT4" and the like on their products until they had time to reimplement it for something less braindead.
42. Easy. What is 32 + 8 + 2?
This announcement of this OS may seem interesting, but if you play the endlessly fascinating game of Go, your insight can become more balanced. For example, When Microsoft was well on the way of total OS dominance, it was as if the board had many stones, but all in one corner. Then Linus Torvalds, almost absentmindedly, played a stone in the opposite corner that was mostly vacant and Microsoft and the rest of the world ignored it, so Linus played a few more stones. Soon there was a formidable structure that Microsoft and the rest of the world couldn't ignore. And that's where we are today. Now ReactOS comes along and plays a stone, but no matter where the stone is placed on the OS board, the position is weak.
BTM
That was the turning point of my life--I went from negative zero to positive zero.
I certainly don't want to start a flamewar here, but I'm not sure if I think this is a useful product. It sounds like the objective of this project is to create a free clone of Windows NT, so people have choice. In order for this to be useful, I need to be able to install an app on either Windows NT 4.0 or ReactOS X.Y, and have the application not know the difference, right?
In order to make that work, the OS must look the same to the app. That means APIs and, at a higher level, the architecture, has to be the same. The reason we don't run any Windows NT based systems in production is that the architecture is flawed. It's a desktop OS with "enterprise" features tacked on. The fundamental architecture of NT is why it sucks, in my mind. To emulate that, even if you give it away for free, doesn't solve the security issues, the performance issues, etc etc.
I have a lot of respect for these guys, kernel hacking from the ground up is tough stuff, but I'd rather see them contributing their talent to the Linux or BSD projects rather than copying a flawed architecture.
Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.
FWIW, some parts of ReactOS use FreeDOS components. For example, the ReactOS cmd.exe is based on the FreeDOS "FreeCOM" (the FreeDOS command.com).
Thought you'd like to know. If you're interested in the DOS parts of ReactOS, you're probably better off to download FreeDOS, which is more stable & mature anyway.
How hard would it be to port XFree86 to ReactOS? It would give you an instant GUI. OS/2 has XFree86, so it would seem ReactOS could have it too. It doesn't have to be the only GUI, but it would add a ton of functionality to ReactOS.
yes, no gui whatsoever...
I know quite some people with this attitude, and I'm afraid that most of them Just Don't Get It.
Most of the people writing Open Source software are doing it because they like to do it. That's all.
If somebody is doing something special just for the fun of it, you can't just kick him and say: "That's of no use for anybody, why don't you just do $THIS instead?"
Won't work at all if he's not interested in doing $THIS. Things just don't work this way. And this is a Good Thing[tm].
And, coming back to your question, no, the world wouldn't be a better place. :-) Definitely no.
[Footnote and rant: Maybe I should send good ol' George W. a mail asking him to do something different because that would make much more sense for everybody else than what he's doing at the moment. But I'm afraid this won't work either. He just likes what he's doing ATM too much, I'd guess.]
42. Easy. What is 32 + 8 + 2?
Excuse my pessimistic bashing, but how would one proceed in "configuring" the IIS or other apps. This would basically only allow running software specifically designed for command-line use (like a seti-client
And with these real NT4 headless boxes - well there's always VNC, which will allow to setup and administer the box as if you were actually sitting in front of it woth mon/key/mouse attached.
+++ath0
If they were 'free', where would the IIS license come from?
The guys working ReactOS might want to be careful. Spirent Communications has a product called REACT, very popular in the systems/OSS world for testing large communications system. And it's a software product. Were this to ever be popular, they might have some problems with it, figuring the way big companies love to sue nowadays.
Do a little homework before picking those cool names, folks. Save you a lot of pain down the road.
Microsoft has been able to buck this trend for over a decade with their unique mix of copyrights, trade secrets and customers locked into large investments of Win32/Office data and code. Microsoft competes on cost, but not against other companies. It competes against its customers' barriers to exiting the Windows corral. Each project that can create a new crack in those barriers reduces the cost Microsoft can charge for their software, thus saving money for the public at large.
First off, this is "supposed" to be a drop in replacement for Windows NT 4.0. Why? Even Microsoft is trying to abandon NT 4.0.
But, Ok you want a drop in replacement for NT 4.0. So, where is the GUI? There is no GUI. Second, but perhaps most importantly, where is the file system support. This thing uses FAT32. Windows NT 4.0 can use FAT32 but, its primary file system is NTFS.
How can they possibly call it a seamless replacement for NT 4.0 with no GUI and no NTFS file system. I'm sorry but, renaming FreeDos utilities to try to emulate the CMD.EXE shell is hardly a substitute for NT 4.0 and I won't even mention Windows 2000.
A "free" machine that could run IIS would be a killer in some Windows shops.
And how, exactly, would this be possible? IIS is not a separate product from Windows.
I think the EULA for those resource/service/option packs would probably state that you're only allowed to use it with a legal copy of Windows. Or perhaps not - maybe this is the one thing they forgot to add in there :-)
I have not seen a free download of IIS recently. The last one I saw was in Option Pack for NT 4.0, but that was IIS 4.0 and you probably don't want to run it (given the number of security bugs fixed in more recent versions). The performance of latest versions is also considerably better.
So you would have to wait several years more, till those guys reimplement IIS too. Do you think it is time well spent?
MSDOS: 20+ years without remote hole in the default install
Well, I'm exaggerating a bit. VNC is useful. This is one I'm definitely trying. There's no way in hell I'm gutting my servers to move to a *nix, but if I can get a free copy of NT for servers, I'm all for it. I can see this, if it works as advertised, as becoming a *major* player in the server market, potentially dwarfing any Linux distros.
My question: what's the point?
We all know that NT4 microkernel is good and the reason it crashes so much is because people install drivers with bugs.
The same drivers will crash, regardless of whether the rest of the system is open or not..
Actually the pointer's one of the things that made me (mistakenly) think it was just WINE implemented on a new kernel. It does resemble X with a very light WM, but it's obviously much more than that. The idea that ReactOS does, or that it's going to, use genuine Windows drivers is just phenomenal. It's a pity that NT4 drivers are getting much less common for new hardware, but I have to assume that 2k/XP support is on the way. About the pointer though - Fire up KaZaA Lite under WINE (isn't that the main reason many of us use WINE?=)) and hover your pointer over the window. You'll get the same pointer you see in the screenshot.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Work is being done on the ROS GUI, windowing is still being implemented. I personally am helping out in this area (or at least trying to) so i assure you there is in fact work being done, don't like how slow things are progressing? help out! ROS is starving for ready and able developers.
I like 'em both.
;-P )
:-(
NT and linux, who'd thunk it!
I like NT because it is probably the most "predictable" OS you can find; each installation is basically the same, especially within a company. Any changes are superficial, all you need to know is a few key version and service pack numbers and you've got a clear picture of the state of things.
It is remarkably stable, especially if you don't buy crappy hardware. Because it hosts most of my favorite apps and games, I can live with myself having a few copies (legitimately, but not out of my own pocket...
And I like linux because when you have to get dirty with interfacing hardware, and no clear solution exists, you look to the source. I've had to do this too many times, and linux comes and saves my ass with bits and pieces scrounged from hither and yon, duct-taped up with perl, and boom, you have your custom widget for whatever-the-fuck was needed in a weeks time. My latest project: Palm Pilot m130 + otherwise useless P133 Dell Latitude = OGG player with IR remote for the car! w00t!!
Plus, I like being able to squeeze the last bit of performance out of machine, and knowing its operation front to back. It makes me feel safer when deploying a critical service; being able to feel confident it will stay up, and if it fails, I can diagnose it quickly because of said transparency. Linux, when set up conservatively, can take a huge beating. I've had servers with half-bad RAM and frayed SCSI cables stay up and limp along until I checked the logs... (MEDIC MEDIC!!!)
So what about linux leaves you with such a bad taste in your mouth?
Interstingly enough, that quality is shared by another less free system: Solaris. The documentation is incredibly thorough; so good, up to the point of throughly recognizing and explaining its own shortcomings (NFS RPC, etc.).
I wish Sun was more forthcoming with hardware docs. Alas, this is how they make their money.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
I boot it up under bochs and run winhello.exe which shows that "pretty" window. Trouble is I can't manipulate the window in any way and that includes terminate it. I'd RTFM if there was anything to read. I'll RTSL someday soon.
...No paint, no minesweeper...
I guess that means no solitaire. Sorry guys, i've just lost all interest in your silly project - it can never be a *real* windows clone. Sorry...
: ) In all serious this looks like a lot of fun, and I wish you guys the best.
Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?
Great post man! :)
I too use both NT and Linux. As far as Windows goes, I have used "NT based" Windows since 4.0, as I quickly learned that Win95 sucked big ones...
Windows allows me to play games (woohoo! play time!). Especially after Win2000 came out. Finally, USB and newer DirectX was available. And, as long as you had good hardware with well-written drivers, NT is quite livable. However, WPA has turned me off to Windows. MS will never see a cent from me on XP. I had a chance to play with WinXP for a while (on a play-machine as I called it). I was able to trip WPA after some hardware changes. Annoying to say the least. I will stay on 2000 until it is no longer supported.
I love Linux because of it's openness. Sure, it took me awhile to learn it. (Started with RedHat 5.2 when it came out). But, here I am some years later, able to use Linux for everything I need except scanning & games (my scanner has no Linux support last I tried... it's a USB Hewlett Packard 3300C USB, and not all games available for linux. WineX doesn't count in my book).
Oh, you commented about linux taking a beating and still chugging along. One day, a fellow Linux user and I were playing with his dual celeron 400 machine (remember that cool abit mobo back when?) and he was probing around the insides trying to figure out where a noise was coming from. He accidentally unplugged an ide cable! (Yes, his hard drive was on that one) Linux didn't panic or anything. He plugged it back in... the machine didn't seem to notice the difference. (and he did have some background services running.) We had a good laugh on that one (I don't recommend hotswapping anything like that btw)
> Why do we keep assuming that opensource resources just transfer between products?
Because, to a large degree, it is true. And even to the degree it *isn't* true, we should try to encourage would-be developers to join an existing project, rather than start their own. There is no lack of free software projects, however there is a desperate lack if free software projects with enough developers to produce anything worthwhile.
Of course, hobbyist programmers should do whatever they think is fun, even if it never produce anything useful to others. But that should not stop us oldbies encouraging them to join existing larger projects that may already have produced, or is likely to end up producing, something worthwhile. There is also a great fun seeing your code getting used. And while working with others can be annoying, it can also be rewarding, and it is a valuable skill to learn.