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Don't Sever A High-Tech Lifeline for Musicians

Licensed2Hack writes "Janis Ian, who provided this slashdot interview last September, has written this editorial in the Los Angeles Times. Janis says, "After I first posted downloadable music, my merchandise sales went up 300%. They're still double what they were before the MP3s went online." And the RIAA's stated goal in preventing this type of activity with their lawsuit against Verizon is to increase sales..."

57 of 478 comments (clear)

  1. To be fair by martyn+s · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm all in favor of free downloads (not only do I believe in it, I practice it!). But to be fair, her sales probably don't reflect the average struggling not-so-famous musician since she's in the spotlight because of the whole mp3 controversy. I bet if she hadn't come out about mp3s her sales wouldn't be doing any better.

    Of course, I just realized, her sales probably went up before she even made any public statements about it. Hmm, interesting.

    1. Re:To be fair by nomadic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure, if you're not that well-known distributing your music as MP3s can increase sales. But large RIAA acts don't have the problem; they rely on radio and music videos to let people listen to their music. If you'd downloading Britney Spears latest mp3, it's probably not because you're curious as to what it sounds like. You're most likely doing it because you don't want to pay for the album.

    2. Re:To be fair by SN74S181 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why aren't they selling DVDs filled with music videos, interviews, lyrics, kareokee(sp?) and what not rather than simple music CDs for so much?

      Because the 'install base' the music industry sells to is slow moving. People still have those funny CD audio players. You know, the plain old ones that just have speaker or headphone output. They're selling them all over the place. They're so cheap these days that they pile them in front of the checkouts at the supermarket.

      It took about a decade for retail shops to phase out LP albums. Audio CDs aren't going to disappear overnight.

    3. Re:To be fair by grahammm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      True, but it would be nice if they also released the albums on DVD with these extras. This is especially true when the CD is 'copy protected' and will not play on computers, DVD players etc. There is precedent for this, as it was common for albums to be simultaneously released on at least 2 media - vinyl/Cassette or Cassette/CD.

  2. no shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1) people sample music
    2) they like it and buy the cd
    3) profit

    1. Re:no shit by quintessent · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem the RIAA has with this:

      Being able to hear the music means you'll buy music that you really like, rather than what has the sexiest photographer putting the CD together or the most advertising behind it.

      It means people will begin to use their own judgement and initiative to choose what they really like.

      And that means you might buy something from a non-RIAA distributor.

    2. Re:no shit by silentbozo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And that means you might buy something from a non-RIAA distributor.

      Which can be damn difficult sometimes. For example, I'm trying to buy some albums put out by an Australian jazz singer (Nina Ferro), but there aren't any US distributors for her music. In essence, she doesn't exist, despite the fact that she's one of the hottest Australian jazz acts.

      Now, you're probably asking, if she's persona non-grata here in the states, how did I get to hear her music? Easy, I listen to the Jim Cullum jazz band every weekend via PRI (Public Radio, International), on Riverwalk, Live from the Landing, where Nina has sung before. Variety shows like Prairie Home Companion are also another great source for music. Unfortunately, I got into these shows about 10 years ago, when public radio was a lot more diverse. These days, many of the older shows have been dropped, as all radio homogenizes, both public and commercial.

      Internet radio really needs to be built on as a viable, wide-audience alternative to current radio, in order for these types of shows to survive, and in order to expose the buying public to music that they might want to try.

      No exposure = no sales. And no, exposing someone to Shakira on screen, stage, and radio isn't going to make that person buy 10 of the same album. Exposing someone to 10 different artists might get them to buy 10 different albums. Face it, the music industry is approaching diminishing returns for the amount of payola and promotion that they're spending. Time to cut back on the amount of money for new acts, and broaden the palate. And a cheap way of promoting more acts is to stream mp3 samples!!!

      Seriously, why isn't there a Capitol records streaming MP3 station? Why isn't there a Sony records streaming MP3 station? You think people are going to discover their back catalogs themselves? Nonsense!

      Why aren't the executives jumping at the chance to kill off 3/4ths of the middlemen in the business and rake in the pure profit themselves? Any rational businessperson from outside the recording industry would do it. The only explaination is that there's a lot of vested interest in preserving the current system (aka, kickbacks/payola.) Thus, instead of serving the shareholders, the music execs are ONLY SERVING THEMSELVES.

    3. Re:no shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      1) people sample music
      2) they like it and do a kazaa search for the rest of the mp3s from the album


      2a) They wake up four days later and see "need more servers" blinking next to their 20 downloads

      2b) They forgot the song they were listening to in the first place and lose interest OR

      3) They take an hour and go down to the Wal-Where-Best-Mart and pony up/plunk down/fork over/cough up/shell out $20 for the CD OR

      4) They (in the ideal music industry future) go to buymusicplease.com and spend $3 to download the four tracks they liked from a 460GB trunk one hop off the backbone RIGHT NOW.

    4. Re:no shit by Golias · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Sorry to flame, but you people are all sheep.

      The RIAA doesn't give a shit about any of this. The RIAA is an organization of lawyers and administrators which was originally formed to standardize shit like the little equalizer that goes into all turntables (the reason why you can't plug most record players into your standard RCA inputs), and to make sure people are not stomping all over copyrights.

      Recently, the RIAA's number one purpose has been to serve as a lightning rod, drawing criticism away from the big record labels. As long as all of you were shouting "fuck Hillary Rosen," she was doing her job, which was to keep the actual assholes behind shutting down napster completely faceless. It's worked like a charm. I'm sure everybody will assume Rosen's replacement is a pariah as well, and give the dicks running the big media companies a pass.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  3. On the mark... by mat+catastrophe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This piece really hits the mark in a very roundabout sort of way. The RIAA is not, by any means, interested in "sales" or "artist's livelihood." What the RIAA is interested in is keeping a very tight rein on what is seen as cool, what is heard on the radio, and what makes their profit margins exceed their own expectations.

    RIAA wants to stop peer-to-peer through actions like its lawsuit against Verizon because those actions threaten their stranglehold on commercial music. As I've often said before, plenty of people think that radio and music in general truly suck in these days and times (how many people do you know that haven't bought a "new artist" cd in the last five years, perferring to spend $11.98 on "Skynard's Greatest Hits" or what ever?)

    --
    sig not found
    1. Re:On the mark... by Hawthorne01 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      As I've often said before, plenty of people think that radio and music in general truly suck in these days and times (how many people do you know that haven't bought a "new artist" cd in the last five years, perferring to spend $11.98 on "Skynard's Greatest Hits" or what ever?)

      The demands that the labels place on their artists to re-create the success of a smash debut have a lot to do with this. Rather than build a legacy of quality, the labels rush the artist to reproduce whatever the artist did in their first album and then slam it out on the streets to while the artist is "hot". How many acts that danced to this tune have had a followup album worth the plastic it's pressed on?
      Not everyone has drunk the Koolaid. Bands like Pearl Jam, Phish and P.E., and performers like Prince, have the balls and knowledge to flip off the suits and build long, profitable careers. It seems these days that such things happen despite of, and not because of, the management of the major record labels.

      --
      "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
    2. Re:On the mark... by mat+catastrophe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd admit it were pure, adulterated nonsense if it were 45-year old mullets buying all that fucking Skynard. But it isn't. It's 18 year-old kids stuck in a "retro" trip.

      Why retro? Because their own, mass marketed, youth culture sucks ass. They'd rather feed off the ghosts of the past than starve with the shades of present.

      While there are a certain number of people who reach a point where "nostalgia" becomes important to them and "new and shiny" is just not acceptable, I don't think that it invalidates my argument at all. After all, there is plenty of corporate music out there that is "new" that appeals to the "old" tastes, eh? And where are the sales of those groups? Down in the gutters with all the other new artists.

      --
      sig not found
    3. Re:On the mark... by Anonymous+Hack · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Ah yes, and in the 90s noone listened to disco remixes. In the 80s noone listened to Dee-Lite or the B-52s. "Retro" has always been hip. Young people who need to be "cooler" than the average young person have always listened to retro music. Young people who are quite happy being "just plain cool" will listen to Limp Bizkit and love it, and in five years they'll be complaining no music has come out in the last five years that was any good - that Limp Bizkit was The End Of Metal. Bullcrap. It's common knowledge that around the age of 19-20, most people's tastes get locked in time. Either they only buy old music, or they only buy "retro" music. Just admit it - you're getting old. It happens to almost everyone, you get to a point when current pop music doesn't excite you any more. To me, this is a wonderful nod in the direction of musicians and particularly A&R people, who are able to stay with the trends and keep giving the teenagers what they want.

      --
      I got a sig so you would remember me.
    4. Re:On the mark... by KingJoshi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm so damn tired of people that not only criticize the music but insult the people that listen to the music. As though tastes are so objective and the listeners are just sheep being led astray or their music tastes are inferior. Oh please.

      I don't listen to opera and barely any classical music but I'm not going to call those people that do elitists. Maybe some are, maybe some aren't. I'm not going to label those that like alternative, grunge, metal, or whatever, sheep that follow the anti-establishment crowd. Sure there's that element for some, but don't belittle the people because you don't like the music.

      I listen to music that I like. Be it country, rap, pop or whatever. I don't know what genres there are since there are so many crossovers. Some music I like just for the lyrics. There are many reasons to like a particular song or type of music. And I might like different ones when I'm in different moods. How the hell does that make me or anyone else sheep?

      There's nothing wrong with liking some of Britney's song today or ten years from now. I'm sure there were those back then that said similar things about Elvis and Zepplin. They were wrong. You are too. Hopefully you'll continue to grow and realize that.

      The quality of stations that only play and repeat the Top 40 is a separate issue. They should play more types of music and get over the whole damn genre thing. Contrary to many on slashdot, I like a lot of stuff out there. Different strokes for different folks.

      --
      In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these. - Paul Harvey
    5. Re:On the mark... by Anonymous+Hack · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Can Britney Spears pick up an instrument and actually *play* something? Can she sight-read? Can she improvise? Does she know the difference between a minor and diminshed chord? Can she even harmonize a melody? Can any of the current "pop stars" do any of these things? Can they do them WELL ENOUGH TO SELL ALBUMS?

      Could Elvis do much more than just plink a few simple chords on his guitar? Do countless millions of fans care? No. Pop music is about the whole package, not about musical skill. And if someone prefers pop music to "virtuoso music" that doesn't make them any less of a person. I personally love listening to Britney, not because of the lyrics or the vocals, but the production is some of the sweetest you'll ever hear. Listen to "Oops I Did It Again" on a good sound system, hear how the bass synths cut through the mix so sharply, but at the same time don't take away from the melodies on top. Listen to those curling effects on her voice as she goes "yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah". Listen to the way the songwriter put the song together so even if you hate the song you'll still remember the hooks, the tunes, even a year later. Look at the video clip and the way they've choreographed her dancing, look at her make-up and clothes. Look at the way she is pushed in the media. These are the things that make a pop musician popular, and they are just as valid talents as being a skilled "traditional" musician. Just because you don't appreciate those talents doesn't mean it's not still something to be blown away by. Think about ALL the work that goes into making a Britney album, not just the time spent writing the melodies.

      --
      I got a sig so you would remember me.
    6. Re:On the mark... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Could Elvis do much more than just plink a few simple chords on his guitar?

      Oh, so now we're going to compare Britney to Elvis? Nice red herring, but I have to ask, what color is the sky in your world?

      Pop music is about the whole package, not about musical skill.

      And that is why it sucks.

      People want to hear some good MUSIC. They don't give a crap about the "whole package" which is being sold at 500x its value and represents about 80% of the cost of producing one of these oversold pop stars.

      When Britney can sit down at a piano or a sheet of staff paper BY HERSELF and earn a standing ovation like Barry Manilow or Billy Joel, then she will be selling albums for real. When Britney can pick up a microphone attached to an amp and NOTHING ELSE and sing *to* people instead of *at* them, and earn applause, then she can call herself a musician. Until then, she's a manufactured marketing strategy, and that's it.

      Right now it's all shelf space and glam: manufactured shrink-wrapped demand with a big label and a premium price slapped on it to justify executive salaries and Entertainment Tonight interviews.

      Deep down under all that bullshit is a 20-something woman who is anything but a musician, and that is why her music is not authentic. It's not her fault, of course. It IS the fault of the assholes around her who have cut this "pop star" out of WHOLE CLOTH, called it a "music phenomenon" and then sold an empty box to the market.

      These are the things that make a pop musician popular, and they are just as valid talents as being a skilled "traditional" musician.

      Yeah, it's formula-driven marketing. Great. But it isn't music. It's a commercial with a half-dozen theme songs. It's a product jingle with a stage show. It's designed and tuned for one reason, and ONLY one reason: to make money.

      But it's not music. It won't reach anyone. It doesn't seek anything. It asks no questions and provides no answers. It has no heart. It says nothing. People can sense this on a subconscious and emotional level. There's NOTHING THERE.

      And that's why it sucks. Game. Set. Match.

    7. Re:On the mark... by ergo98 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why retro? Because their own, mass marketed, youth culture sucks ass.

      I'd wager that a much greater impetus is the desire the insecure get to differentiate themselves from their peers, and a false sense of musical superiority is often a primary way. I say this from a first-hand perspective: I grew up listening to "alternative" music such as Depeche Mode, Skinny Puppy, Ministry, etc, in a small group where we assauged each others misgivings by assuring each other that what we were listening is of such superiority to all those brainless mobs. Then I grew up. First I saw a friend actually cease listening to a band because they became popular: This struck me as the greatest hippocracy of many counter-culture movements-They are just as driven by popularity, only in an inverse fashion (i.e. my like= -(popularity)). There is nothing redeemable in that, and it makes one just as much of a sheep as anyone else. How about all of the "goths" who "act different" by acting exactly like every other goth. It's a false sense of individuality while completely following the leader.

      As per music nowadays, there are a tremendous number of extremely talented groups...groups being produced and distributed by the evil big industry. Sarah McLachlan, Tori Amos, Our Lady Peace, Matchbox 20, etc. All are tremendous musical talents in a sea of talent. Britney Spears does not represent the status quo of musical talent, just as Elvis didn't back in teh 50s.

  4. works great for small artists.. by dogas · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What she's talking about works great with small-time musicians. When I was in a band, we tried to distribute our mp3s to anyone who would want to listen. Then we got a hot designer to make our merch, and that's how we made the mainstay of our cash.

    However, I don't think her example is valid on a multi-platinum level. We get enough exposure to bigger bands through mtv and radio where we already know if we're gonna buy their shirt and concert tickets.

    --
    'When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.' -HST
    1. Re:works great for small artists.. by Klowner · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly, but have you considered the possibility of a world that has free sharing of music, causing people to be exposed to more artists and genres, resulting in very few artists who get multi-platinum status because people wouldn't be fed music which is deemed "good" by "The Man". People that get multi-platinum would actually have to be THAT GOOD to earn it, not have the best marketing people.

  5. This is a logical cause and effect by pyite · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Bands like The Grateful Dead and Phish have realized the ridiculous marketing power giving away free music has. Both bands were/are extremely successful (in terms of the amount of concert tickets sold) and this can be directly linked to the free exchange of audience recordings made by fans. I still find out about new bands largely based on this technique. A band allows taping at their shows and people do it. They then offer the shows for free download. People like me listen and then go to the shows, paying the artists. Everyone, except the RIAA, wins. I'd be scared and panicking too if I was the RIAA.

    If you're interested in free music, go here.

    --

    "Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman

    1. Re:This is a logical cause and effect by aredubya74 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The RIAA could give a rat's ass about the Dead and Phish's concert success. Historically, have their albums sold well? Do they get considerable radio airplay? No, and no. Don't get me wrong - I really like both bands. However, the "R" in RIAA stands for Recording. This is what they care about; control of the output of recorded musical performance. If they can control the flow of musical recordings, they can continue to foist talentless crap on the listening public. If anything, Phish and the Dead are anomolies in their system. The RIAA would squash these performers' direct marketing of music if they felt they could. But they can't, so they take on the ISPs and downloaders, ignoring the ill will this spawns.

      --

      RW

  6. Re:I keep saying this, but nobody listens by Diamondback · · Score: 5, Insightful

    one problem:

    yeah, okay, 'most people' have modems.

    but a lot of people in the 'young adult' (I mean recently adult, not teenager) category are in college, and most colleges have massive broadband penetration (almost everyone around here off campus has broadband, and EVERYONE in the dorms with a computer has it). That compounds the 'it's too hard to get a whole album' theory.

    I can hop on windows networking and find giant massive piles of whole albums to listen to without even 'downloading' a thing in the classical sense.

  7. RIAA wants to increase sales.....OR....... by Phantom_24 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They want to make sure independent artists don't start getting too big for their britches and therefor don't need the help of the RIAA or the big 5 recording labels??

    Case in point....Ani Difranco has sold nearly, if not MORE than 1 million albums....ALL ON HER OWN!! And that's just ONE WOMAN from that musical hotbed of Buffalo, NY *sarcasm*!!
    Imagine that, if you multiplied that more than 100x with talent from around the world! The labels would not be able to compete......

  8. repeat after me - The RIAA doesn't represent Me. by acomj · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The RIAA represents the recording industry..

    Not Artists.. Not music consumers..

    doesn't that feel better?

    There actions may drive you nuts , but what can you do. Your not paying them. They're defending the "Recording Industry" The fact they have the influence they do isn't there own fault. If you don't like it don't buy the music they produce..(I'm not advocating stealing it either by obtaining it and not paying for it..)

    Slashdot shouldn't jump every time the RIAA does something..

  9. System of a Down by imhotep · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I believe CD sales have to be maintained by offering added-value. For example, the latest System of a Down CD did not have a cover booklet, but rather had embedded the pictures, lyrics and credits on the CD itself, only to be unlocked by an application downloadable from their website.

    That's added value. The CD itself has more information and value than the collection of the same songs on mp3.

    An album is not just the music that it has; it's a whole piece of art, expressed in the music, in the cover art, in the packaging, in the booklet, etc ...

    Such albums would make me want to buy the CD instead of just having the mp3s ....

    1. Re:System of a Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "the latest System of a Down CD did not have a cover booklet, but rather had embedded the pictures, lyrics and credits on the CD itself, only to be unlocked by an application downloadable from their website."

      You call that added value? They do NOT provide something, they force you to download some app and "unlock" what you get with other CDs normally?

  10. Re:I keep saying this, but nobody listens by fobbman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First off, nobody's listening to you because you're posting AC. Anyway...

    There has always been an element of people who never bought their music for as long as home-recordable media has been available. My dad used to borrow LP's and record them on reel-to-reel, and, later, I copied friends tapes on cassette. The important issue here is that the vast majority of people out there (you know, the non-Slashdot folks) who aren't going to copy music. Sure, some of them will, but you'd be surprised how important that pretty little book that's inside the CD is to people. They may download enough to make their own CD, but they won't have THE CD.

    If the pretty CD booklet isn't enough, then do what groups like Audioslave do and make extra songs available for download to those who own the CD. Either way, the overwhelming majority of folks who buy music are still going to buy it. That is, as long as the product isn't crap and they don't feel like they're being ripped off due to overly-inflated prices.

  11. Is Janis the only one who knows how to rip MP3s? by GGardner · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't get the logic here. Artist posts MP3s on a website, and sales go up. At any time before that, anyone could have ripped her CDs, and distributed it on napster, kazaa, gnutella, etc. etc. Why didn't sales go up then?

  12. The "stated goal" by Call+Me+Black+Cloud · · Score: 2, Insightful

    RIAA's stated goal in preventing this type of activity with their lawsuit against Verizon is to increase sales

    The suit against Verizon involves someone who made music illegally available, i.e. the copyright was held by a RIAA member. It does not involve someone making available music that no RIAA member held the copyright to. (damn, what a messy sentence). RIAA didn't go after the biggest file sharer - they went after someone they could win against. Garage bands are safe.

  13. Focus of interests by phurley · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Assuming that the RIAA has anything other than the RIAA's best interests at heart is exactly like assuming a union has anything other than the union's best interest at heart. There is significant overlap, but they are not perfectly aligned.

    If I work for a union and the union is offered a contract that will significantly increase my salary, but also reduce the number of union employees, it is very unlikely that the proposal will be accepted (even when the staff reduction is done via attrition).

    Similarly the RIAA's interests have nothing to do with artist's best interests, so why the surprise? Artists (like misreprested union employees) need to realize when the people they pay (very well), are no longer working in their best interests and move to find new representation.

    --
    Home Automation & Linux -- now I know I'm a geek
  14. Tell it to the artists themselves by sirket · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The only way we are going to get things to change is to tell the artists directly what we think.

    We should take the time to contact our favorite artists and let them know that we are not going to buy their music until we can purchase it in a format that we want. Let the artists themselves put some serious pressure on the recording companies.

    I personally have not bought a CD since 1996 despite wanting to buy a number of almbums. For me, CD's are simply not worth their current prices. The latest moves by RIAA have just hardened my resolve.

    When I can buy high quality MP3's or FLAC encodings online, for a reasonable price, I can easily see myself spending a couple thousand dollars buying the music I want. Until then, I simply don't listen to music. I won't download it because I don't believe that is fair. I will, however, exercise my rights as a consumer not to purchase their music.

    -sirket

  15. The Cost of Stupidity by Tomy · · Score: 1, Insightful
    My downloading of MP3's has NEVER cost the recording industry a single penny. I only download two things; music that is no longer in print, and new stuff to see if I like it.

    For the stuff out of print, I can't buy it, so no loss to the industry.

    For the new stuff, if I like it I buy the CD, if I don't I delete it and would have never gambled the price of a CD anyway.

    And I'm especially pissed about the stuff out of print. They are screwing both the artist and listener by having a business structure that can't be profitable with small run/demand items. Rhino did a lot to rescue some catalogues, but there are many others languishing out there that a smaller and smarter business could profit from.

    The music industry wasn't destroyed by the MP3, it was destroyed by the bean counter and the corporation. They will die, and I hope it will happen soon, because then new business will spring up in it's place, dedicated to the music, and serving both artist and listener.

    1. Re:The Cost of Stupidity by Jeremi · · Score: 2, Insightful
      For the stuff out of print, I can't buy it, so no loss to the industry.


      If we assume that you have only so many hours in a month that you can devote listening to music, then it follows that if you are spending your listening time listening to free out-of-print music, you'll be less motivated to investigate and buy the new music the RIAA is selling. So they lose income that they would otherwise have got from you.


      (not that their hypothetical loss of income bothers me in the least, of course -- but this would explain why the RIAA doesn't want people to have easy access to out-of-print music)

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  16. I agree by neo8750 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    by cutting people off from downloading songs artists and the RIAA are cutting out new listeners. I personal like to get a few of the songs off a cd before I buy because I hate buy a cd and finding out i only like 1 of the songs on the cd.

    www.machinaesupremacy.com allow people to download their music for free. although they have no cd's out atm I know if they did I would gladyl buy it and support them. but thats just me I find by sampleing the music I am more apt to buy it.

  17. Mod UP by That_Dan_Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This was the whole point of why IUMA.COM got started so many years ago. Cut out the record companies, and let the artists go direct to the customers.

    I remember discussing this over and over again at the time and how everyone was sure the companies wanted to destroy IUMA. Then Napster came along and made them forget about it.

    Whoever modded this down either didn't read it or didn't understand the point he was trying to make. The Record companies DO want control over the music and how it is distributed. File Swapping takes that away from them. They don't want a bunch of small tiny artists selling directly to people who take away sales of their mega-bands. They just want Mega Bands, and a cut of the profits these mega bands make.

  18. Re:Is Janis the only one who knows how to rip MP3s by EsperHunter · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Honesty.

    She's saying "I'll give you my music for free, and if you like it, please support me", instead of having people just downloading it from some p2p client. Its the same philosiphy as freeware.

  19. I live in LA... by Newer+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    and I find it pathetic that I'm forced to scour the playlists of various radio stations in obscure markets around the country, then download the music to sample it and also find myself listening to Internet stations in small towns because radio in the LARGEST MEDIA MARKET in the world doesn't have a radio station I like! The record industry should be HAPPY thay have a loyal customer like me who WORKS HARD to find titles to buy. Instead, they call me a CRIMINAL! Is this their idea of giving the customer what they want? Frankly, I'd love to own a record company. It's easy to make money. Even if you can't market yourself out of a paper bag, don't worry! Congress and the courts will help you be the ONLY GAME IN TOWN, because after all, this is how the marketplace is supposed to work!

  20. It's not about theft. by DeadBugs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you think the RIAA is worried about all these people downloading songs for free and pirating music

    Their NOT.

    Free downloads can actually help sales in the same way that radio does. And the pirates who have 1000's of mp3's probably would not have paid for any of that anyway.

    So what are they worried about?

    Distribution. Their greatest fear is that artists will start releasing music on their own, side stepping the recording industry and their slave like contracts. Once an artist can release music (without the record company) through the Internet. The record companies will cease to exist. End of story

    --
    http://www.kubuntu.org/
  21. Re:What's good for Janis Ian by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Like Britney Spears complaining in an RIAA ad that downloading music is the same as stealing a CD from a store?

    Ian's story may be anecdotal but it entirely agrees with any economic analysis of the situation.

    Retailers have a rule of thumb that cutting the price of an item in half increases your market by a factor of (IIRC) four - until it's free and everyone wants one whether they need it or not.

    If you allow people to download your music for slightly over the cost of providing the bandwidth and overhead (i.e., you still profit), people will have no incentive to get it from a competitor (unless that competitor has better marketing - which is an expense he has that the original artist does not). This is basic economics.

    The difference is, you don't have a middleman - the record label - charging you for the production of your product, then wasting money on payola, then cheating you on the royalties by claiming X% "breakage", etc., not to mention that you are not supporting THEIR profits instead of yours...

    It's common sense that an artist selling their own product will make money if they can do a reasonable amount of marketing to come to the attention of the people who might like their work.

    What WON'T happen is that artists will make millions of dollars because some corporation paid some radio station operators in cocaine and hookers to play those few songs the corporation decided to promote.

    It's laughable - first the record labels screw over Metallica, then Metallica thinks they're owed millions of dollars, then they sue their fans to get it...

    This is what happens when the vast majority of domesticated primates are clueless about economics...

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
  22. Far of P2P: A Musician's Perspective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a musician and recording engineer, I can attest that, yes, it isn't cheap bringing recordings to market.

    However...

    What we're really talking about here is the notion that one must fork over a monetary sum and wait (maybe minutes, but sometimes days, sometimes years, depending on a recording's availablity and rarity) to hear it. P2P cuts the wait and the inconvenience of "real" shopping, and is (currently) free.

    The price of a CD is justified through the reward of owning a physical media that is as close to the original master as is possible, given mass-production's capabilities. Fairly-priced CDs ($5-$15) are a good bargain in this regard. If you know that a recorded work is required for your library, then ONLY a legitimate copy of that thing, with full audio quality, is an acceptable solution to that need. MP3s won't cut it.

    MP3s are merely "near-CD" facsimiles of an actual, valuable thing. They, in and of themselves, have *NO* value. Even the highest quality MP3 files suffer from degradation, and can't be replicated without further degradation. Without hard-media backups, they are prone to instant and irrecoverable loss or corruption. They provide none of the tactile rewards of real media (quality artwork and printed liner notes are, indeed, worth something) and are even incapable of replicating the CD listening experience in certain cases (where tracks flow one song into another, seperate files for each track result in gaps).

    Some might say these are minor things, but I feel strongly that no one would ever settle for having MP3s of a work that they truly love.

    So the real question is: why should people feel pressure to pay for the privelege of auditioning works that they may not actually desire to have in their physical media library for the long term?

    I don't think they should.

    Readers can audition nearly any book at their public library without a financial transaction taking place. I feel that P2P applications are roughly the audio equivalent of public libraries, and, as such, are beneficial for the public's musical education.

    As a musician with works in release, I do not fear downloading, because anyone who would download my record and be content with that piss-poor representation of my work wasn't going to buy it anyway. But, perhaps, through having heard it in it's entirety, they might learn to love it and need to purcahse it. Or, if they don't like it, they might recommend it to someone who *would* like it, and they might purchase it.

    And another thing: if we're going to be upset about P2P music trading, why aren't we upset about used CDs? Artists don't get a *dime* from those transactions, and those transactions lead to the purchaser actually obtaining the thing of real value - a physical copy!

  23. Re:I keep saying this, but nobody listens by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "The "free advertising" argument is ridiculous, absolutely doesn't hold water, and is something I'm getting tired of hearing."

    So... tell me how radio works again?

  24. Agreed by arcadum · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's logical for the corporations to discount the benefits of freely availible media.

  25. Re:Is Janis the only one who knows how to rip MP3s by Golias · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I think the parent post has a bit of a point here.

    I mean, thousands of slashbot geeks who would never even consider giving an old-skool female folk artist a second look probably became instant fans of her just for visibly being on the white-hat side of the whole MP3 debate.

    It's kind of like how we were all willing to forget how much we hated Wesley Crusher when Wil Wheaton turned out to be "one of us." Our objectivity has been skewed a little regarding public figures who turn out to be good eggs.

    --

    Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  26. My Letter To the Author by Dokushoka · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Dear Janis, I must say I was shocked by your article in the LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/suncomme ntary/la-oe-ian2feb02,0,2630989.story?coll=la-head lines-suncomment) I too am a musician, engineer and a journalist, and have what I feel is a firm understanding of music law. The article you wrote fails to make one very important point: it is one thing for an artist to offer their music up as a free download (provided they have the rights to it) and its a very different thing for people to download something that the artist has not authorized. There are many musicians who offer free downloads on their websites, which is a great promotional opportunity. Buy peer 2 peer services offer the potential for people to get any music they want (for free) without the artist's consent. A good analogy would be a market giving away free samples, and then saying since that increased food sales, all the food in the store should be free. I highly suggest you write a follow up to your article as it is perpetuating the notion that music should be free.

  27. The Psychology of Record Companies & Biz of Mu by ledbetter · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Yes, she saw her sales go way up. Why? Cause she just got a bunch of FREE PUBLICITY. Publicity is the cornerstone of marketing.

    How do record companies make money? Off their Big Ticket artists (the Britney's, N'Syncs etc.). The other 90% of their artists don't really sell enough albums to make any money.

    Those Big Ticket artists have major publicity partly because the public loves them, but mostly because their record companies see them as worth spending millions of dollars a year on marketing. Record companies BUY them publicity, by promoting the heck out of them. In general, the public isn't that picky. They tend to buy who's ever getting a lot of publicity. Look at Jimmy Ray. Here was some looser with a crappy album, BUT his record company decided to promote him like crazy (calling him the Next Elvis and crap like that, cause he had nice hair or something). Even though his songs were terrible and he only had one half-decent single, this guy sold tons of records.

    Ok, so what am I getting at? Bottom Line. Record Companies make $$$ on 10% of their acts, loose $ on the other 90%. They only keep these 90% around, cause they gamble on some of them eventually becoming part of the 10%. They know full well that mp3's and online music (cause they provide good free publicity) will really help out those 90% of acts that don't make much money. But they're scared to death that mp3's will EAT into the sales of their 10% money maker artists. Which they clearly do! (In short, record sales are all about supply and demand. Having mp3's around increases vastly the supply of those major artists cause so many people have their CD's in the first place to rip and mp3 them, making vast supplies of those mp3s. So mp3 trading satisfies some of the demand for those records that would have gone to CD sales.)

    For that reason alone, they're way too scared not to attack online music trading with everything they've got. They're trying to protect their golden eggs.

  28. Re:Is Janis the only one who knows how to rip MP3s by dbrutus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That doesn't explain similar results for Baen authors who put their books out for free in anelectronic library.

    I think we're starting to assemble enough data points to be able to say with some confidence, putting out free stuff helps sales of both the rest of the IP portfolio and sales of the free stuff as well.

  29. Read the article by WinPimp2K · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The RIAA companies "own" lots of artists who are not big right now. Only so many artists can be "big", and the recording insutry has made the deliberate decision ot only push the "big" ones.

    Now I'm pulling numbers out of my hat below, just to make a point. But I'm sure youcan find real numbers to back up the argument.

    The recording industry decided that since people collectively will only be buying 300 million CDs per year, then if they only run 30 marketing campaigns to push 30 artists, they would still sell 300 million CDs - but spend a heck of a lot less than they would pushing say 3000 artists.

    The problem which they are unable to recognize is that not everyone likes the 30 artists that are being forced down our throats. So they are not seeing the 10 million CDs per artist that they expected. But since nothing is being done to promote the other 2970 artists, they might just conceivably want to see some additional sales - but that would involve online distribution of their music.
    But wait, their music is "owned" by RIAA members.

    --

    You either believe in rational thought or you don't
  30. Re:Idea to help indie artists... by jdonnici · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Couldn't artists who use online file sharing as a form of advertisement sue the RIAA for curtailing their activities?

    I don't think so because the RIAA's goal isn't to simply "kill file sharing" -- it's to kill the file sharing of works by artists signed to RIAA member labels.

    I'm sure that, if the file sharing networks were only sharing files by non-RIAA artists, the RIAA wouldn't care about that at all. They're not opposed to the technology, just the application of the technology as it impacts their profits.

    I should say ... as they argue it impacts their profits. That's my whole problem with the RIAA argument. They look at their sales growth for the last couple of years or so being down and they say "See, those P2P networks are hurting us."

    The problem is that their argument overlooks several things:

    1. When Napster was up and running, the RIAA label sales were up. People were finding new music that they couldn't hear on the radio and the economy was up, so they were buying CDs they might not have otherwise. Which brings me to...

    2. Over the last couple of years, pretty much everyone's sales are down. We're in a recession, fer cryin' out loud, and that's going to especially hurt non-essential, luxury items.

    3. While more subjective, their sales are also likely down because they're putting out crap.

    4. Also over the last year or two, the public has learned a lot more about the real cost of putting out that $15.99 CD at Sam Goody.

    So combine a down economy with a public increasingly turned off by by the major labels and there you go. If the RIAA spent half as much turning people ON to new music as they do trying to turn people OFF to file sharing, they'd probably be better off.

  31. Re:I keep saying this, but nobody listens by ninjadroid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's just it... it doesn't MATTER what your definition of ANYTHING is. If you're a judge weighing a case related to this issue, then I stand corrected.

    The Government gets its authority from the consent of the Governed. If the Governed do not like the way the Government is running the show, they demand (and get) change. Remember prohibition?

  32. Regression To The Mean by istartedi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Downloadable music doesn't increase sales. It doesn't decrease sales either. It regresses sales to the mean.

    For unsigned artists, it increases sales because they get global exposure which they can't get through some other medium.

    For big name artists who are already known worldwide it decreases sales because the people who might otherwise knuckle under and pay will just download instead.

    The people who argue that downloading increases sales for *everybody* are just trying to find arguments to support their desire for free downloads. Likewise, the people who argue that it decreases sales for *everybody* are just trying to protect their business.

    Now obviously attacking the format, be it MP3 or whatever makes no sense at all. If the bigtime copyright holders want to persue illegal copying that's fine, but attacking P2P systems and the file formats makes no sense.

    As much as many don't like it, the old bit about "when you're downloading MP3s you're downloading communism" has a kernel of truth to it. Socialist systems often regress people to the mean. Usually, the mean ends up lower too although command economies sometimes distribute resources towards one particular aspect of society and exceed the mean of that particular aspect under capitalism (see, Sputnik, Cuban Health Care). In a sense, the MP3 people have risen up and redistributed the wealth from large copyright holders to computer companies and smaller artists.

    This presents me with a moral quandary. On the one hand, I dislike the Leftist revolutionary attitudes that some have. I don't believe people can justify the taking of something just because they think they should have it. On the other hand, the manipulation of the government by the corporations offends me equally. A pox on both their houses! When one side buys the law, and the other side breaks the law, the framework of society begins to unravel.

    Our laws are supposed to be formed on the basis of civilized debate, not the outcome of a slugfest between thieves and scoundrels.

    So for now, what very little music I buy, I buy legally; I haven't downloaded music very often, and when I did I felt like I was being a hypocrite, since I have argued in favor of IP rights. Of course, I'm mostly in the "radio is good enough" category of listener. If I were really, really pasionate about music I'm not sure what I'd do.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  33. Re:Is Janis the only one who knows how to rip MP3s by reezle · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And this will work in the short term. People are supporting her, because she is bucking the system. If every artist tried to do this, would people be as supportive, or just start to take it for granted that musician's products are availible for free on the internet? (as some are already doing)

    At some point, won't the artists have to treat recordings as simply free advertising for their concert tours... Nothing more?

  34. Motives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But to be fair, her sales probably don't reflect the average struggling not-so-famous musician since she's in the spotlight because of the whole mp3 controversy.

    The RIAA's interest is it's members: Recording companies not artists or music(except when it's convinent for buisness).
    Their current way of doing business is largely based on publicity and they have lots of control over the media they use.Competition from independant artists via the internet is not in their interests (obvious parallels here with M$), so to eliminate this competition they are using the indirect tactic of trying to lock the use of the net down by lobbying for apropriate laws.
    If a larger chuck of commercial music was done by artists independantly, online, then there would be more focus on that group from the public - it would become a decent sized market (bazaar ;) and the record companies would be making less money than they would like. There would be more musicians being able to do what they wanted for a living because of the masively improved margins available.
    So just like M$ they are trying to use their lobbying power (Money without ethics..) to preseve their buisness model from it's impending doom.
    The standard of music should go up too :D

  35. MP3's and the RIAA by DerKatze · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I discovered during Napster's short lifspan 2 great bands(Shamall and The Gathering Field, they both have online site/shops/samples) that the RIAA has missed, since they do not belong to the organizaion, are they also going to be infringed on by the RIAA??? Seems to me the B/S the RIAA spreading about losses of revenues on artist and spreading the load between all artists in their stable is really stinking load of manure. Since Metalica and the RIAA have taken arms up on the mp3 downloaders and servers, I have not purchased a single new CD to, in my way a silent protest of their actions, I have bought thru 2nd hand sources(i.e. pawn shops, used music, goodwill and others). I have purchased a few new CD's, but from only direct artist site(non-RIAA), but until the RIAA(Major labels included) withdraw their persecution of end users(which is the same thing they are doing legally also selling new CD's at outrageous prices), I for one will not support them in their legal fund. Purchase Direct from the Artist, not the RIAA and their Stooges. Boycott the Bastards!! -=ô;ö=-

  36. Re:I keep saying this, but nobody listens by some+damn+guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I refuse to believe that file sharing is stealing simply because the music industry tells me it is. They got away with selling sound (sound!) for many years and now they have to deal with reality.

    It's ridiculous to think that downloading mp3's is theft because there is no scarcity. Downloading an MP3 does not mean a CD suddenly disappears from your local Best Buy. The 'theft' is an entirely theoretical loss of _potential revenue_. You may choose not to buy a CD for many reasons. You may borrow it from a friend and decide it sucks, or he may give it to you outright because he already knows it does. You could even buy a used copy off eBay. All of these options cost music companies revenue. Is this stealing too? It's beyond silly. I had a song stuck in my head the other day- am I a criminal? You'd laugh if someone called you a thief after you told your friend who was about to go see "The Hot Chick" that it sucked because he ended up not seeing it. The movie companies still 'lost' the same $8.50 though. Shame on you for taking food out of Rob Schneider's mouth.

    If I were a freak show performer and people paid five bucks to see me at the state fair that doesn't mean the people seeing me at the grocery store are stealing from me. Hell, I might think everyone walking behind me on the street should pay ten dollars for the privilege of viewing my sexy ass, but that sure as heck doesn't mean it's going to happen. Why the hell is this any different? No one has an inalienable right to make money anyway they want to. I don't sit around and fucking cry because money doesn't grow on trees and they shouldn't either.

    Anyone who tells you that disregarding all this idiocy will hurt music is on crack. You can cut an album for a few thousand. Even if you spend way more by far the biggest expense is still making all those damned CD which we don't even need anymore. You can still charge for concerts and T-shirts and a lot of other things that actually make sense. Excellent artists make music for nothing all the time. Hell some of them you couldn't pay enough to stop. And yes, being in a cool band will get you laid regardless. We are in for a sorry future if every single piece of crap that you happen to spout out of your mouth is suddenly worthy of protection by the government. I tremble when I think how they might actually do that. Look at the war on drugs and be really fucking afraid.

  37. another reason for increased sales: Singles! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I bought a Janis Ian vinyl LP at a flea market for $1 (US). I had read and appreciated her take on the MP3 issue; but had I not read it, I still would have bought the LP because I collect 60's and 70's. The LP contains her hit "At Seventeen". It also contains about ten other songs--most of them beatiful, if a bit sad. There's only one song I don't like. Janis wrote every song. She also played guitar and piano on several of them. How refreshing is that in the days of Britney and her ilk?

    I don't know for sure, but I bet "At Seventeen" was released as a single and the other songs weren't (it would have taken more money to release more singles). That means the other songs had virtually no radio play. Whether any of them would have been hits, we will never know. With MP3 album releases, every song is a potential hit as a "single" in its own right. And the fans pick the hits instead of some record exec. A fan who has heard and liked five of Janis' songs is much more likely to buy a "Best Of" CD than a fan who has only heard one.

    There are very few deep-cut radio stations, so radio still has the limiting influence of the "singles" system. When it comes to letting the fans pick the hits, only MP3 releases offer that advantage.

  38. Where's The Money Really Going - DVDs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I bought about 600 albums over the last 15 years. I think I was similar to most older listeners who were artificially inflating current-year sales by buying backlist to replace their vinyl. (Hey, Elvis didn't hit #1 just now for nothing - even if he was a little before my time.) That's over now. I've pretty much done that now, so I'm not buying.

    A lot of the songs I would like to get, I got from Napster-Kazaa-Aimster becuase I didn't want them badly enough to buy the $18 CD for one song. I ahve bought a number of compilation and too many "greatest hits" CDs.

    Modern "music" is pretty much formulaic and abysmal - sort of like white pop before Elvis. God help us if rap is the solution, but I think music is due for a shake-up, not just in distribution.

    So where is my money going? DVDs! A lot of people's serious disposable income is now being spent to build a personal video library from film backlists. DVD's are hot. When a classic is released, it's big news and it gets snapped up.

    Of course, 5 years from now, when almost anything is available on DVD and anyone who wanted a classic movie has bought it, sales will slow down. Watch for the MPAA to complain that movie trading and DVD burners are destroying their sales. (Oh, wait, they're doing that now.)

    I have no illusions that what I do with Kazaa/Napster/Aimster is theft of some sort - maybe it's "fair use". But I fall in the category "never going to buy it" for a lot of what I downloaded. Memorable singles from the 60's and 70's (or even the 80's) are worth listening to, but certainly not worth buying the entire CD at $20 each. In the good old days, I could buy the 45 for 66 cents (I had 300 at one point...); today, a CD single isn't much cheaper than an album.

    If the RIAA wants to keep selling, then they have to find the price-convenience point that matches their customers' desires. That's free market.

  39. Re:The Psychology of Record Companies & Biz of by sgtrock · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Oh? Care to explain why Micheal Jackson's album tanked? Mariah Carey's? Both had so much money thrown at their marketing they should have debuted at #1. Both sank without a trace.

    MJ called Sony Music execs racist instead of accepting blame for producing an album the public didn't want to hear. MC's record company paid her millions just to get her to go away so they wouldn't have to put out another one of her albums.

    Tell me again about how P2P sunk those albums. Please. I really want to know.