Slashdot Mirror
uClinux Ported to the iPod
ucdot writes "Here is the announcement for a port of uClinux to the Apple iPod, checkout the project page for extra details. Currently the frame buffer, audio and IDE devices are working. Still plenty of work to do."
I already know algerbraic. Why should I bother learning a new system?
Because RPN has many advantages. It's quicker, requires less keystrokes and you no longer have to match brackets
But RPN is a pain in the neck!
No. Most RPN users agree that RPN is easier then algerbraic. For instance:
2* (4 + 7) =
is:
4 Enter 7 + 2 *
What's going on here? you are using a stack. Typing 4 then enter puts 4 on the stack. typing 7 + adds 7 to the stack. 2 * multiplies the result by 2. Not only is it easy, but you have saved 2 keystrokes already. now, let's take the square root of the answer:
ALG: sqr ans = 3 keystrokes
RPN: sqr 1 keystroke
Easy!
So, RPN is faster? Why?
Well, 2 reasons. Firstly it takes less keystrokes. Secondly, you no longer have to match brackets. This saves a lot of time
Why would I bother? RPN is as dead as *BSD
No, There Is A New Hope (TM)! HP is reviving their calculator line! Check out comp.sys.hp48 for details or check out this Press Release
hang on, if I make a typo I lose my work!
No. You have an 'undo' key
But I can't see my working!
yes you can. The HP4x series of calculators show full symbolic working
You see Linux, I see *BSD!
-Mark
I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I really am curious. The links are a bit light on the practical side of it.
first fucking post!
Ruined a perfectly good iPod with that penguin crap.
It plays Ogg at about 80% realtime - hopefully not too long before that's up to 100% and an iPod will become acceptable to open source fasc^H^H^H ^H advocates.
ph33r netbsd, that's a field you haven't put your hands on. Oh well, you may have accomplished compatibility with my refrigerator, but the ice desposer is still buggy!
I will suck cock for £10.
I am a homosexual. I bought an Apple computer because of its well earned reputation for being "the" gay computer. Since I have become an Apple owner, I have been exposed to a whole new world of gay friends. It is really a pleasure to meet and compute with other homos such as myself. I plan on using my new Apple computer as a way to entice and recruit young schoolboys into the homosexual lifestyle; it would be so helpful if you could produce more software which would appeal to young boys. Thanks in advance.
with much gayness,
Father Randy "Pudge" O'Day, S.J.
... this seriously rocks!
All thats needed now is a port of libogg, and away we go! Well done Bernhard!!!
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
I am an open-minded young man with a fabulous body and drugfree mind. While I am heterosexual, I am interested in experiencing sex with another man. Will Apple computers and accessories help me in getting my cock sucked by a handsome IT geek?
Now this is an impressive development.
The iPod can be improved dramatically with custom configurations the likes of which couldn't be done before.
Along with correct Ogg support, comes full control over a very good piece of hardware inside. It's a pity about the lack of features on the buttons at the front, but I'm sure a good coder can knock up something useful from that. Perhaps even a firewire keyboard hack to help searching tunes?
This will give Apple a run for their money.
Very impressive. I thought it could be a hoax at first. Finally a way to get Ogg Vorbis on the iPod?
when i got the nomad jukebox it was ok, but i had to trade up for the beautiful UI of the iPod.
the only thing i miss about the NJB is the ability to make realtime playlists, and to be able to delete songs away from the computer. i would love to see that come to my iPod via this port!!!
also a dual boot would be incredible, but doubt the 2 firmwares could co-exist unless the firmware would be a booter (ala lilo or grub), and the iPod/Linux firmware be made virtual and put onto the ide harddrive.
once more mature, wonder how the legal implications of "look n feel" would be determined since you are confined to such a narrow user input. apple made the UI so sexy, that it would be hard not to emulate it.
Watch Apple lawyers come down hard on these developers...
This is what happens when people does not have enough to do...
News.com is reporting that IBM has won a $290 million contract with the federal government to build what are expected to be the world's two fastest supercomputers at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. The other machine, the Linux powered Blue Gene/L will be 10 times faster than the current #1 , NEC's Earth Simulator with a speed of 360 teraflops, according to IBM.
For anyone bored to check their website here are the two screenshots they include.
1
and
2
Why the hell is every Apple article on Slashdot full of trolls and flamebaits about homosexuals and gay sex?!
I think an important question is (and I didn't find the answer in the article) that can I put back the original software?
Szo
Red Leader Standing By!
Stop wasting time with the IPOD, get it working on my Archos JB20, playing DivX/Mpg vids, then I'll sit up and take notice!
"I kill you! You no good 56'ing!"
Look's really nice, but only the Windows iPod (with FAT32) is supported. Wonder if there will be support for the Mac iPod (with HFS+).
I demand the Cone of Silence!
Someone should port one of the gameboy emulators to this thing. That would be pretty cool!
Qtopia interface, GBA compatibility - instant calendar downloads from the PC - could be a great platform, and not nearly as boring as apple's original firmware.
Will be nice if they get this thing running TCPIP over the firewire port... embedded linux+apache on the ipod, I cant wait
Apple's reaction will be interesting. If they jump on these developers, they will be sending a strong message about exactly what they are selling with the iPod. If - and I think this is more likely - they ignore or even help the project, the iPod will become immensely popular.
Ogg support (or even just a shell prompt!) would be reason enough for me to buy the iPod today.
Hope this message gets through to Apple.
So, what's next: will some intelligent company build a DVD player that can be extended with IDE drives internally and run Linux so that we can load it with mplayer and freenet and build that "your grandmother can fileshare" set-top DVD/VR I'm dreaming about?
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
1. Get it to continue working with iTunes. Imagine, once this matures and the music capabilities are running at full speed, how nice it will be to be able to sync and use both your ogg vorbis and mp3 files on the iPod using iTunes to organize everything.
2. Figure out the remote pin-outs, so hardware hackers, or at least those with soldering skill can make their own remotes. I'm thinking I would like to modify my snowboarding jacket since I can't afford that Burton/Apple iPod jacket. Granted, this request goes out to anyone who is interested as it really doesn't have anything to do with the iPod linux project. If I can find some time, I may look into it myself.
If anyone has any info on the above, please feel free to chime in. Oh, yeah, and I noticed this from the FAQ. Perhaps this can waylay all of the "WHY?!?" trolls:
Cheers. :)
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
Gives a rat's ass? Is this news or is it a commercial? You know the drill....mod me down you cowards!
On one hand, maybe this project will give Ogg/Vorbis on iPod, but on the other hand I wonder when Apple's gonna start sending goon^Wlawyer squads shouting that these guys breached EULA.
Robert
Bastard Operator From 193.219.28.162
Uh... maybe I'm confused, but how can you be a straight guy if you had gay sex?
I can see it now. Two geeks in a bar looking at each others linux equipped ipods. One pulls out a firewire cable and says "I'll share you mine if you share me yours"
EGG, the Electronic Gamers Guild
Its not like it is breaking any agreement with Apple. Read the software license that comes with the iPod, its a simple software license, nothing else. Just like Apple has not squished the Linux on PowerPC programs, Apple will not got after someone wanting to write something for the iPod. iCommune was a person breaking their agreement with Apple, they had all the right in the world to tell him to cease and desist. My 2 cents.
wow, that's a sexy mp3 player player, i wonder if it could run...
oh, cool!
Why is the penguin on their website stoned? Was he making one of the switch ads too?
Why not use when you mean ?
u is such a poor excuse for a .
A witty
Apple fans should consider themselves lucky to be under such heavy troll-scrutiny. Trolls rule. They make everything better. TROLL IT UP! MOD THIS POST DOWN.
Add touch sensitive screen and stylus.
kill yourself now. That is the most insane 'isnt this monopolistic practice?' post I have ever seen on SlashDot. And having Amiga in your name just makes me wish you where dead even more.
Reading the release notes indicates that only the Windows version of the iPod is supported. Additionally the build environment has to be a PC running Linux. Which means that the majority of iPod owners using Macs are excluded at the moment.
Further research indicates that at the moment neither MP3 nor Ogg playback are working in real-time, partially due to the iPod lacking an FPU. There is no support at present for the Firewire port either.
So, what use can be made from a Linux system with 5 control buttons, a dial control and a locking switch as input and a low-res mono display and audio as output? Not a lot, really. It's not even much use as a games platform emulator.
Just a thought...
/dev/mp3 ? The idea of using a software decoder on something i think has a hardware decoder just seems a little....uselsss?
Doesn't the iPod have a hardware decoder for mp3? If so why don't they think about making a device for this in the kernel...maybe so it would be possible just to cat >
"What do you mean you have no ice? Do you expect me to drink this coffee hot?" - Random Customer, Clerks
You know the developer is a slashdot frequent when you read the FAQ.
"3.4 Can you imagine a Beowolf cluster...
There was an April fools about a bunch of Buddhists ordering a heap of iPods. Too bad... if it were true perhaps they could have clustered them to solve the ancient mysteries...
Translation, yes, but its just silly. "
---- The geek shall inherit the Earth.
At the moment much of the possibilities for the hardware in the iPod is going unused, for whatever reasons.
It's difficult to tell exactly what the out-of-the-box features are, as precise details are closed... but:
There's a PP5002B-C in there, and the PP5002 product brief(pdf) states support for mp3 encoding, and decoding of mp3, wma, wma, aac and accelp.net formats. Of course, Apple use custom firmware which may not have all of these facilities.
There's also been talk of using the iPod for direct sharing over firewire. There's possibility of using IP-over-Firewire and running a webserver on the thing. There's a lot of fun possibilities out there, especially if a few more hackers get on board, although no alternative firmware will gain popularity until it has a simple UI, one of the things apple tend to be rather good at.
There's obviously a fair way to go with this uClinux project, and I'd expect much of it's initial progress has been made thanks to the ARM7TDMI port of UClinux - I'm not belittling the hard work of Bernard Leach here. The current mp3 and ogg playback is probably not as optimised as it could be with full knowledge of the portalplayer chip and the rest of the iPod's hardware. It would be great if information on the hardware would be opened up, but I don't see this happening for a while, in the mean time, get this man an official FDK!! (or maybe not, because of them damn legal issues).
All things said, looks like a great start, just wish I had an iPod....
Still no cure for cancer.
Can my iPod still play music? Can I still use it to shuffle files between home & work? Keep my date book, my address book, my MP3s?
Tinkering to improve is a good thing. Otherwise its just vandalism.
If you're not bringing anything new and improved, you might as well be lobbing bricks at store windows.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Apple's reaction will be interesting. If they jump on these developers, they will be sending a strong message about exactly what they are selling with the iPod.
From the uClinux webpage:
Unfortunately the iPod is considered a "closed-platform" by Apple and technical info is virtually non-existant so this has involved a fair bit of guess work, reverse-engineering and experimentation!
If they aren't an authorized Apple developer, and they've completely reverse-engineered everything (because of a lack of documentation), then what can Apple legally do?
Keep in mind that the last person that Apple brought the hammer down on (for iCommune) was an actual Apple developer with Apple documentation, so Apple had a little bit of leverage on him. Whether it would have truly been successful in court is another matter...
Frankly, I can't see Apple doing anything about this. It's not going to threaten their current iPod plans, and it's going to be a marginal group of users who will attempt to install this.
You know, this isn't very useful. We already have linux based mp3 devices that are far cheaper than the iPod. The iPod's appeal is that it acts as a tool, not a computer...that is, it's simple and performs its duty infallibly. Adding a bunch of hacked features to it may be cool to some, but to me it's basically eliminating all the appeal of this type of mobile jukebox.
I mean, come on. We all laugh when we see a porsche with a big coffee can exhaust pipe slapped onto it. This is the same idea -- taking the expensive, high quality "performance player" in the market, and rendering it an alpha-quality linux box. All for the sake of playing OGG files, which you can't even generate with iTunes.
For $500, you can get a fucking sweet linux box. Or you can get an iPod. Don't wreck the latter trying to get the former.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
How the hell do you pronounce "uClinux" anyway?
If this guy wants to hack HIS Ipod why not? It is not vandalism it his to do with as he wants.
You want a shred of evidence? Fine, have a look at the iPod's copyright screen. Big Pixo logo there. :)
Another shred? Here you can read about the iPod Pixo connection, too. And here.
But if you want more than a shred, why don't you have a look at the Pixo OS? Yep, looks like the iPod's OS.
I know that a lot of my friends are waiting for the same thing, why don't any of the major vendors realize that there's a market here? Maybe it's not big enough... I have tried mailing companies to get some information on whether any of them plan to support Linux or .ogg, but haven't got a lot of replies so far.
I thought the ARM7TDMI (assuming that is what IS in this thing) had an MMU, thus why use uClibc and have a limited linux-like system?
Does this mean that the GNU/iPod (lol) will be able to play OGG files?
Articulos para gente geek: Poleras, linux, libros y mas
I have been thinking about using an iPod for storage of files that aren't music-related. Specifically, I'd love to be able to use it as a hard drive to dump extra images that I take from my digital camera when I'm on the road. Unfortunately, most hardware solutions to this (including the iPod) involve using the external unit as a slave -- that is, I can only SEND data to it, I can't initiage a GET.
This means that the only way to dump data from my camera (which has both USB and FireWire) is to connect it to a laptop -- cumbersome and overkill, I think. Now that Linux has been ported to the iPod, would it be possible to use it in this way?
Clunky as it may be, I've misplaced my HP48G. So if anyone happens to see it, could he let me know? Thanks.
http://www.ubergeek.tv/switchlinux/
Whats next? I can see a future /. article, "Linux on My Dog" - Fido Distro .
Comeone guys, install linux where its useful, not "neat"
Check out what these guys are doing!
From the uClinux site
The Linux/Microcontroller project is a port of Linux to systems without a Memory Management Unit (MMU).
Pronounced "you-see-linux", the name uClinux comes from combining the greek letter "mu" and the english capital "C". "Mu" stands for "micro", and the "C" is for "controller". uClinux first ported to the Motorola MC68328: DragonBall Integrated Microprocessor The first target system to successfully boot is the 3Com PalmPilot using a TRG SuperPilot Board with a custom boot-loader created specifically for our Linux/PalmPilot port. It is currently maintained by co-creator D. Jeff Dionne.
This article is a dupe of a story that Taco is going to post a few hours from now
IN SOVIET RUSSIA IPOD GETS PORTED TO YOU! Yep, I finally made one of those annoyingly lame posts. While I see the attraction of pride involved with replacing the firmware on this device, I don't see any potential gains other than .ogg support.
Honestly, think about the frequency response involved between the unit and the included headphones which most people still use, and the point of .ogg support becomes less impressive.
Calm down, sugar. He did it for the same reason others build their own robots rather than buying an Aibo. It's a toy. Nobody's going to take your precious Apple firmware off your iPod.
Just another small improvement from the free software world.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
I asked this long before I knew about slashdot. I remember reading about linux on iPaq etc. Was wondering if iPod is running some varient of Darwin/OSX from Apple already. .... I think the universe is in good hands, don't you?"
After reading this thread, it sounds like it's possible, but who can tell?
{
function douglasAdams(theManWhoRulesTheUniverse)
"Who can tell?
}
Cheers
rogue33x
you forget furby? aibo?
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
FWIW the Apple firmware was actually crafted by Pixo
http://www.pixo.com
Do you think that Michelangelo took a slege hammar and went *BAM* done. Nope. Good things take time.
If you don't like to know when good things are on the horizon get the hell out....
Just keep the guns out of his reach.
what does that have to do with one of the parent statements, "This will give Apple a run for their money"? That statement makes it look like this will be competing with apple for money in some way but in actuality you don't buy the ipod's hardware and software seperatly from apple so either way apple makes the exact same cash
--
WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
WTF good is Linux on the iPod without 1394 support? That's like Windows not having Ethernet support!
Hello?! *sigh*
Also, some of the Nomad Jukebox series can record MP3s and AIFFs. This feature alone made me not go with an iPod even though I really wanted one. I actually ended up with an Archos unit. I feel a little gyped, though, because getting a Firewire connection for it costs an additional $70.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
...Any OS on VMWare -> VMWare on Linux + Linux on iPod -> Any OS on iPod.
you may find the Higgs in this signature.
Did you catch this:
;)
"Audio device (44.1MHz 16bit little-endian)"
44.1MHz audio? What kind of processor are they using in this thing, anyway?
44.1kHz sounds more likely...
What would really put you on their hit list is if it also fetured a p2p client....
You could play Ogg! (It already does at 80% realtime)
You could also do some very slick stuff with the TCP/IP stack. i.e. configure it from a web browser or something. (Unfortunately you'd need a long Firewire cable)
I recommend they emulate the existing interface, it's quick slick. But it would be fun to experiment with other things such as circular menus that you select by scrolling around circularly.
All in all, it's damn cool with a lot of possibilities.
Random is the New Order.
Don't forget the ipod also has a battery!
Well, the iPod has no FPU, but they have ported the integer-only Vorbis decoder Tremor, and it's running at 80% realtime, with hope for improvement.
Litigious bastards
Digital Camera Support.
I can't beleive people are bitchin that this port is pointless. I have a Pro Photographer friend with a high end digital Camera which basically chews through a 512 Meg CF card on a Pro shoot. He doesn't really want to drop $2000 on a big bulky laptop just to store photo's. I was looking for a portable HD solution for his camera (some kind of $5000AU Nikon Clone, yes it's got a Firewire port) but suprisingly didn't find anything (anyone wanna help me out here). Once the Firwire kernel modules are developed for this thing I imagine a port of Gphoto or similiar would make this a shit hot utilitity for Pro Digital Photographers (and not so pro nerds with cameras).
I had exactly the same thought, that I could use my iPod while travleing to dump images. Either being able to pull them from a camera via Firewire or auto-copying a card of pictures over from a firewire CF reader.
Looking at the FAQ, it looks like firewire support for the iPod is not there yet, but they plan to eventually support it... so it's still a while before an image copying app will be around, I think.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I'd like one with the little fishies on it. yeah, delivered. Like, here, man! oh, right - Antarctica!
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Or can you get User Mode Linux to run on it and have a *really* large virtual cluster?
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Been waiting for that for aaaages!
;-)
;-)
;-)
;-)
I still think that Apple should release the official APIs for the iPod though!
Here are a few suggestions what would be great for the iPod:
- BPM-analyzer for DJs
- maybe realtime-soundeffects like Echo, Timestretching, Pitchshifting if enough CPU-Power is still available?
- (very very nice!) a Filebrowser that allows you to move files from and to the iPod or between 2 attached Firewire-devices (or other iPods)
- A tool to move your Keychain over to the iPod and have all your Passwords and PINs always with you!
- A link to Sherlock 3 to recieve, store and display its search-results (price-lists, starting times and venues for movies, flight arrivals, maybe even roadmaps to get somewhere etc)
-Text-Clipboard for taking important Texts (or emails) with you and also read them on the road using the jog-dial!
Concerning Games the following would probably be best suited (because of the jogwheel!):
- Space Invaders, Galaga etc.
- Race-Games like Pitstop or Outrun (jogwheel should make an excellent steering-wheel replacement!
- (further) Breakout-games, with more features than the easteregg one (think: Arkanoid!)
- the game with the clowns and the teeter-totter, where you have to juggle 2 clowns (also kinda like the intermission-game in Creatures 2!) and you have to prevent that something smacks onto the floor
-Pong (Link via Firewire!
-Klax
-Tetris (works! Center button: turn piece, throw down: bottom button!)
-Tapper (the game with the bartender, that has to serve beer on several bars at once and catch the empty glasses that come back!)
-Artillery Duel (you know, the classic adjust angle and thrust of your tank and try to shoot the enemy taking turns!) possibly via FW-Link, too
-Joystick-mashers like Decathlon, only that you have to turn the wheel faster to run faster! Only recommended for iPods with the new non-mechanical jogwheel though, hehe!
The possibilities are endless, it took me just 20 minutes to come up with the above, that says it all!
That thing has 32MB RAM and 2 ARM-cores and is flashable! Why the heck shouldn't people code for this thing?
I understand Apple is afraid of people messing up their iPods with self-hacked software and then clogging the Apple-hotlines, but they could avoid that by having developers display a disclaimer everywhere possible, that you take this at your own risk and that Apple is not liable in any way for anything that you f*ck up by using selfhacked software!
Maybe Apple would warm up to the idea if they have you sign an agreement to deliver the source if someone wants the APIs so they could take it and include it in the "official" iPod-Software if they think it's cool?! Compensation for the hacker would be nice, but wouldn't be a must for people to program the thing (which this uLinux-Hack shows) i guess!