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Mac OS X Update 10.2.4 Resets
Oculus Habent writes "It may just be me, but 10.2.4 reset a number of settings on my computer, including icon sizes, window positions, and dock size and contents. Minor annoyances, but completely unnecessary. Is anyone else experiencing this?" As for me, Apple re-added some apps to my Dock and overwrote all my changes to httpd.conf (though it did back it up first) to add mod_rendezvous_apple. But those problems pale in comparison to some others: Anonymous Coward writes "If you upgraded your Mac desktop to 10.2.4 last weekend, check your date and time. Many users have suddenly found it to be 4:00 PM, December 31, 1969 again. Apparently, this happens whenever they are shut down or restarted, and resetting the motherboard and/or the PRAM doesn't fix it. Complaints have been piling up at Apple.com and prices for batteries have been skyrocketing - but relax. It's not your battery!"
I updated two computers.... G4 and an iBook. The only issue I had was needing to modify my httpd conf for on the G4 for PHP. No date issues....no moved icons..no lost internet...no droppy socks and the cat still has two different colored eyes.
I submit that as usual, the majority of issues are not directly related to 10.2.4. If you move apps where Apple's installer doesn't expect them to be (and don't whine how it is your computer and not Apple's), you'll have boinked links, and dock icon issues. If you've done a poor original install, you'll have issues with system updates, whether the bad install was your gift to the afternoon or not. Get over it...the sky hasn't fallen...this is not OS 9, and the sooner we all get used to a modern OS the happier we will be.
an error in Finder. Clicking a graphic file with a preview icon automatically generated by the Finder still refuses to look "selected" as typical icons do. Normally, when you click an icon, it'll go 25% darker. This doesn't happen to thumbnailed graphics.
Got no problem here, except for the added apps in the docks, and a new white flash when waking up the monitor.
Everything else is working quite nicely, and I'm as productive as before.
At least they backed up his conf file....
As for the date thing, they'll fix it soon. As always.
I grabbed 10.2.4 as soon as it came out.. indeed, even before it was mentioned on Slashdot! I have not seen any of the problems mentioned.
Though the httpd.conf file was probably replaced, I wouldn't have noticed since this is a laptop and I don't use Apache very often.
Ouch! The truth hurts!
Everything worked fine for me. Nothing reset, no changes to the Dock. I don't know if it makes a difference but I downloaded the tar file directly and ran the update later, rather than using Software Update.
/tmp/filelist" to get a list of all files and dates. Then run it again after the update and diff the two lists. That will show you httpd.conf changed, for instance. Also it's just interesting to see what files change on the machine as I learn about the OS. You can also get lists of files from the archive itself or from the "bill of materials" file ("man lsbom") after installation.
/iNode12022737 is for? I keep seeing files like that in the root dir...
Haven't seen any time/date changes, but my clock is set by NTP anyway.
PS: One thing I like to do before any major update is run something like "find -s / >
PPS: does anybody know what the file
I thought it was rather odd as well. I had icons for iChat, the addressbook, and some other applications that weren't on the dock pre-update. My time wasn't affected to my recollection, but some of my other prefs were.
Know what I did? I removed the icons, and fixed my prefs. Then I promptly forgot about the whole thing and got on with my life.
I did find it strange though... That sort of thing has never happened to me before
Blocklevel: Practical Information Architecture
I know lots of people that use Mac OS X (me included) and they never experience any of these supposed catastrophic failures when updating their system. I smell a MS smear campaign.
... I installed 10.2.4 on my G4 iMac when it was released and I've had zero problems with it.
I'm a little more fearful about it touching my powerbook G3 (pismo) though. I've frequently had problems with that machine and updates. I've had to completely backup/wipe/reinstall the damn thing at least 5 times due to problems with OSX. It seems that they give considerably less of a damn about older machines than the do about the cream of the crop.
I'll wait a while before installing it on my powerbook.
Gabriel Ricard
My brother used to put the system file out on the desktop....and I never asked why. He also insisted on formatting otherwise left over HD space...and every time his house of cards fell, I'd have to grinnbearit.
silly messes...that's funny...like a stain on the carpet, only it doesn't smell.
I'm guessing the installer/updater plays along with the *NIX user system, right? So what about "chmod a-w httpd.conf" for protecting your httpd settings? If you don't want your settings modified by Apple, use the power of *NIX against it!
Or does this not work?
This sig intentionally left bla... dammit!
Who's got the whiteout?
I didn't see any of those problems. The only change I did spot was that my Input Menu had been reset: normally I have only the British layout active, so I don't see it in the menu bar; after installing 10.2.4, the US one had also been activated. A doddle to put right, but rather worrying nonetheless.
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
99% of MS users don't have what you maccies say supposedly happens to us. It's all a big conspiracy, though, you read it on slashdot.
software update has asked me a few times if I want 10.2.4.
Uh, why? I have dozens of windows open, and uptime in the weeks. (This is an iBook -- are you on one? Open terminal and type 'uptime'.).
I read over the improvements, and there's nothing I need right now.
C'mon people. Get with BSD style.
I keep a sparse dock of one of my logins and nothing was added to the dock. Nothing was removed or added to my normal login which has about 20 items kept on the dock.
No new aliases were created on my desktop (Such as for mail, Internet or the like). None of my preferences were overwritten or contradicted.
My clock stayed at the correct time and date, and my network connection stayed configured manually just the was I had it set. (then again, perhaps my time WAS messed up and the auto-time-set feature reset it before I logged in, I just don't know).
That said, if there were going to be any inherent problems with the installer, I would likely be the one to find them. I'm running on and old Biege G3/333 that is overclocked (CPU and bus), with 3 monitors (one from internal, two from an ATI 7000/PCI), a USB/Firewire card, a SCSI card, third party everything in the system except the motherboard and power supply.
Seems to me that if anyone's system broke as a result of the update, that there was something REALLY flakey about the config beforehand, or it is just random coincidence and they are just assigning blame where there really is none.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
I had virtually _all_ of the reported problems with 10.2.4.
I used it as a good opportunity to back up the essentials, wipe the hard disk clean, and start over.
This was well overdue, so in a way I'm glad for the inconvenience. Now I'm back to 10.2.3 with a slimmed down OS X partition and things run beautifully.:)
I've updated several Macs here; a Rev A iBook, a Cube, a 350Mhz Sawtooth, a Dual 500 and a Flower Power iMac. All went perfectly.
Maybe these users are using hacks that work outside of published APIs?
Some portion of users will have problems with any update, often for reasons unrelated to it. Watching the general flow of problem reports, this particular one seems safer than average.
/tmp, but creating directories without write perms, and then failing to write things into them. I tried suspending it at the right moment and chmodding, but probably got the timing wrong.)
That said, I spent about an hour in single-user mode when my update got horked in the middle. The installer had been sitting there chewing cpu forever, claiming to be almost done, but making no further progress. I ktraced it, and it appeared to be endlessly looping through calling gettimeofday() as fast as it could. I did what seemed like the only thing available to me: -9'd the installer, and restarted.
This worked out poorly.
Panics on startup, but I was able to get into single-user mode. After a while spent dicking around with manually loading kexts and such, I finally gave up on getting networking up from there, and had a friend burn me the 10.2.4 updater on a cd, and tried to install it again.
Unfortunately, the cli installer was choking on it, for some reason I don't understand. (It was copying parts of the installer to
I finally just dug through the package, got friendly with pax, and manually removed both the kernel extension caches; problem solved.
No one I know has had these problems when upgrading to 10.2.4. Allthough 10.2.4 is devidable by 2 and 10.2.3 isn't, I can't see a problem.
Perhaps this is one of the 'trolls' we so often here about. I think we are letting our imagination run wild if we think it's a MS plot. A anti-mac plot, maybe.
I had this problem with the dock going back to its default settings once. It happened after I woke my PowerMac from a sleep -- it hung, so i rebooted it. Upon reboot all my preference files somehow got trashed. I then deleted the plist files and repaired permissions -- things were back to normal.
For some reason all the entries in my Address Book were recently deleted. This happened shortly after 10.2.4 was installed, but I don't know that it was correlated. Anyway, it's happened before too; I have no idea why, and I don't move the locations of my apps from their default locations.
If you are an admin user, you don't have to enable the root password to use sudo. 'sudo sh' is the same thing as 'su', but you give it *your* password.
Uh, you didn't pay for this update, And almost certainly any problems are user related. I've never had a problem with a system update, starting all the way back with system 6.
Updated two computers. PowerBookG4 and a PowerMacG4 without a single problem. Only the PowerBook encountered the additional icons on the dock. Easily removed.
.plist XML files, etc.
Sure the httpd.conf file was replaced. But that's expected. At least they backed it up for you. One should have a backup of the file anyway. As well as any other modified system files.
No haxies or shareware installed on either Mac. I've run into problems in the past with OS/GUI hack add-ons which are not endorsed nor supported by Apple. Namely, the WindowShade haxie screwed things up in the past. Frankly, I got over not having shady window title bars. It's a nice feature but I found multiple virtual desktops and monitors eliminated the need for it.
The httpd.conf needed to be changed to insert the Rendezvous module. I expect further updates to the Apache server in the future.
Rules of engagement (or common sense)
1. Backup your data and user configurations on a regular basis. Preference
2. Don't install a bunch of shareware to hack or customize the system GUI on a production system you use for real work. i.e. Haxies, themes, etc.
3. Perform a backup prior to applying a software update of any kind! Especially OS updates! I do this prior to installing any software. Call it Microsoft paranoia. No software is immune to mistakes, bugs, or flaws.
4. Actually READ THE README! Take precautions that are advised.
5. Watch the lemmings install the update for a week first and see if there are a lot of reported problems. Just one person reporting a fubar'd upgrade on a forum is not a lot of reported problems. Most of the time only a small vocal percentage claims major problems without enough information to back up their claims. ie. you don't know what other factors could have caused the problems. Usually due to shareware add-ons and customizations.
6. If you have customized the system such as changed the httpd.conf or upgraded the Apache server then you should be smart enough to fix it after an update. If this is a production system, then you should not be applying software updates on the production box until you've applied it to a non-production QA/Dev box used for testing. i.e. a QA box should be an exact duplicate of your production system. A Dev box is different, anything goes on a Dev box. How many production Mac websites go down for days for an upgrade? SpyMac, OSXHints, etc.? Sure you've got to deal with a web hosting company but you should have all the details worked out ahead of time and an upgrade should be completed in 1-2 hours and there should be a rollback plan in place. All the leg work should be worked out on the QA box weeks before putting it into production.
Mac users have a lot to learn about Unix and how to run a professional website. In addition if you are running a Mac network in a business environment it should not allow software update to run. You should either disable the software update feature so your users don't shoot themselves in the foot or you should run your own software update server and redirect your users to run only your server. Once the updates have been tested and approved, then they can be placed on the businesses private software update server.
In other words, quit your bitching! Apple is not perfect, we know that. They are however worlds better than Microsoft, Sun or Dell! Most of the time it's not that big of a deal.
Yeah! Duh... For months dude! For months!
Well you didn't pay for this update now did you?
The cause of all these problems is simple, and I'm amazed that Apple overlooked it. The new version number, 10.2.4, overruns the 11-bit signed integer field that Apple devotes to the version numbers for their operating systems. This causes the system to think it's version -10.2.4, and extrapolating on the rate of Apple software releases allows one to easily calculate the date that this release should have taken place: Version 1.0.0 in 1984 and Version 10.2.3 in 2003 gives version -10.2.4 to be precisely January 1, 1970. The 1969 dates are due to a roundoff error, and only occur in G3s without Altivec support.
As no version earlier than OS 8 has network time support, the new "old" system does not attempt to update from a network time server. The reverted files and dock icons are simply the computer's attempt to show the files as they exist at the "current" time.
A patch may take awhile, due to the difficulty of updating all the old system routines that use the 11-bit signed int format.
I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
Okay, beige G3 rev a, no problems, iMac rev b, no problems. I'd try it on my PMac7300, but it can't run 10.2.
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
I won't be upgrading from Mac OX 10.1 to US$129 Mac OS X 10.2. Although, XWindows, the new browser (an IE replacement, yeah!) and the improved Windoze network browser seems cool enough, this new "beta" software for 10.2 that only runs on 10.2 seems to be just that: beta test software. No thanks Apple. I'll continue slinking along with smb://, ftp, IE, XonX. Eventually, I will probably upgrade to some variation of Linux/BSD, just waiting for an equivilent for iTunes.
Complaints have been piling up at Apple.com and prices for batteries have been skyrocketing - but relax. It's not your battery! I'm willing to bet this is a conspiracy by apple to make money selling batteries to the customers who are dumb enough to believe it is really worth $20. Their whole business plan is focused around tricking morons into buying overpriced crap. Example: They charge $400 for 512mb of PC2700, even though crucial is selling the same damn thing for $79 after shipping. THAT's 400% PRICE INFLATION!!!
Repeal the DMCA!
Of course they tested it, don't have a cow. I've updated several computers over the past couple of weeks and have had absolutely no problems. I took the cautious step of running disk repair on each system before upgrading and then I used the Archive-and-Install method.
Every upgrade, no matter how trivial, can bring complications. One must be prepared for such an eventuality, and hopefully face inevitable problems with a bit of grace.... or in your case a bit of fucking grace.
-- thinkyhead software and media
My 12 computers (mine and Apple store) have had no problems with the update.
Upgraded to 10.2.4 the other day, and it went perfectly... my httpd.conf was replaced, but that was expected. diff3 is your friend and mine.
Installed it on my G4 Cube Thursday when it was released, and it didn't touch my dock, break the clock, or do anything else wrong. It didn't even remove my Jaguar style X from the About This Mac screen like most of the other OS X updates.
Ossama strikes again!
Isn't the guy something else? Amazing.
I always download the combined updater. I have read elsewhere that those people with problems are those who used the 10.2.3 to 10.2.4 updater. The combo updater worked just fine on my g4 with heaps of third party apps and a highly modified dock. date and time is fine and I don't update the time with nts.
The only thing that I had to deal with was the fact that my Logitech mouse and keyboard preferences were reset to their factory defaults. (specifically the custom button assignments were all reset).
I'm not sure if this is really because of the update, but I can't think of anything else that I did that might have caused it...
$0.02 (CDN)
Hi all,
Firstly I have to say unfortunately there are inherent problems with this update, and the one about the clock resetting to Jan 1 1970 (plus or minus a few hours depending on your time zone) is absolutely true as I am experiencing it myself.
It does however only seem to be affecting fual processor G4's though, so that may explain the mixed reaction.
If you are still in doubt, check Apple's discussion board here where there are a total of 66 replies to my original post complaining of the clock issue (hopefully link will work, if not, check out the OSX area under discussions on Apple.com).
It seems that a large number of people are having this trouble, and although there is no way I would ever switch to another platform after using OSX, it is disappointing that Apple allows these things through the net.
Although OSX is vastly superior to Windows XP, I simply can't imagine MS distributing an update for Windows that would have this fundamental effect. I think that Apple should make sure they concentrate also on the mundane routine stuff in checking as well as the super-cool revolutionary stuff they are so uniquely good at (Rendezvous, Bluetooth integration, iApps etc etc).
Here's waiting for a fix VERY soon.
-Nex
This sig has been deprecated.
" Here's waiting for a fix VERY soon."
1) Make sure you are connected to the internet.
2) Click on your clock, select "Open Date & Time..."
3) Click on "Network Time" tab.
4) Click on "Set Time Now"
Why do you need to wait for apple to update the time on your clock?
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
I haven't updated my TiBook to 10.2.4 yet, because it works just fine the way it is. I read the changelogs for the update and determined it wouldn't be of much benefit to me, my system is in a perfect equilibrium with everything working at the moment ... and I don't want anything changing that! Strategy: Read forums, let early adopters tell you what's new in the release and what it breaks. If yours ain't broke, don't fix it.
I, like Visigothe, had new icons in my dock. My time wasn't reset though and I never use Apache so that's not a problem. All of my network configurations, Ethernet, AirPort, and Modem, were fine.
I'm using a Dual USB 600 MHz iBook, running....10.2.4 and it is a pretty vanilla install but I do have separate Mac OS X and User partitions. I have the Developer Tools installed in case someone is searching for common aspects that may be the cause of this weirdness.
- Using the Combined 10.2.4 update downloaded directly from Apple instead of Software Update
- Running
/Applications/Utilities/Disk Utility afterwards to Repair Permissions using First Aid on the boot volume
Your mileage may vary, but it worked well for me and in general their advice is excellent.Also remember that in a forum such as this, the complaining voices outnumber the ones for whom the update went smoothly just because it's pretty boring to say "Hey, it went fine for me..."
It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw.
I updated to 10.2.4 via Software Update this morning, and the only thing that happened was that I had some icons added to the dock for iTunes, iMovie, etc. I removed the icons from the dock before, since I only want the dock to show running apps, and it was no big deal to just drag the icons off the dock.
I haven't had any time problems, no cryptic error messages, and no other problems that I'm aware of.
Oh, I did have to move iPhoto and iMovie (which I updated via Software Update at the same time that I got 10.2.4). The updaters for them placed them in the Applications directory, and I like to keep my apps a little more organized than that. Just a simple drag and replace and everything was back to how I had it.
The dry fish swims alone.
Well...that would be the French, and the Germans, and the Latin and Spaniards, etc. If you look it up, most of the words in the English language are derived from another language.
Of course, this only further supports your claim - if you can take words from another language and call it 'English', why not make up completely new words and say they're English, too. After all, that's what happened with the other languages once upon a time...
Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
The only thing that I noticed is that my "Software Update" preferences were reset to automatically check for updates - something that I had turned off before.
I didn't notice anyone else mentioning this (although I may have missed it).
I think the problem pertains to dual macintosh- My 1 week old DP 867 is having a handful of problems after 2.4 fix. The computer is so new that I haven't installed much other than fink and stuff coming through apple's software updates. The problems are:
the clock resets to 1969. (I set it to network time, and now it keeps track of the time, but even in win98 you don't have to do that)
Sleep no longer works. it either shows garbled screen, or the monitor doesn't come up at all.
Changes resolution on boot up. my 20" dell has no need to be in 800*600 mode.
There is fix to this, that is to insert os x install disk and run disk utility, and it fixes everything. But after a few more bootups, it's all over there again. Now I can't really say that os x is superior to windows since it doesn't know what time it is without asking someone every time it boots up.
First of all, all my settings were lost, then iTunes gave me a fatal error when attempting to save my iTunes library. When I attempted to reboot... Zilch. Nada. Nothing. Lovely blue screen. Nice. Really.
This is not your mommy's OS 9 box any more kids. It's a "real" OS with serious power! You can't treat it like OS 9 or even like Windows 98. I noticed immediately that my httpd.conf file had been overwritten and simply copied it back, restarted apache and tested the rest of my system. Other than the downtime to reboot and make the .conf change I had no downtime.
There are bound to be problems with any update. Not all installations are identical, so there are bound to be unforseen changes. I can't speak to the time problems because I use NTP. It is important that my system has the correct time - not just what my mickey mouse watch tells me.
Overall, I'm very happy with the update - my system is as rock-solid as ever!
"terrorism" and "pedophilia" are the root passwords to the Constitution
It's not whining to ask that Apple's installer be non-braindamaged and honor links and mounts. That's one of the foundational concepts of UNIX, for crying out loud: you can mount anything anywhere and it looks like it's part of a unified file system.
/Applications. This should be TRANSPARENT to any application that rises as high as "dim-witted", much less a well-written installation program.
For example, I ran out of space for Applications, so created an Applications partition and mounted it to
I've lost track of which installers are stupid and which are not. Apple's has been, but might now work properly. I know I still get messages from some installers/updaters that the partition I'm installing to must have a System folder. Stupid.
can you believe it? they actually expect me to click "OK" when i want to download their software updates. what's next? maybe they'll soon expect me to wait while it installs. just who do they think they are? i mean, i obviously have nothing more serious to complain about in my life, so i'll keep going... ya know what? i bet i know what's coming next... they're going to make their software better and not even tell me, those bastards!
From the Apple message boards:
"WARNING: preposterous time in Real Time Clock -- CHECK AND RESET THE DATE!"
I've seen this before, and my NeXT Cube and Turbocolor pizzabox are snickering to each other in the closet.
This was a common diagnostic error in text-mode bootup on old NeXT systems with a screwed-up time in NVRAM.
I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
Trolling, Trolling, Trolling, keep those dogs a rolling, rawhide...
We are all born originals - why is it so many of us die copies? -Edward Young, poet (1683-1765)
Do your realize how pathic this sounds?
(Huh? Do my what? Pathic?) Aww, the truth hurts, eh?
The issue is real and it effects only certian machines. Namely dual G4's. Apparenly newer ones.
It effects them? A dual G4's what? Hehe...
I have a dual G4. No problems with the update. I don't know whether it's because I'm the superior user with so much knowledge etc..., but I obviously have much more knowledge of the English language than you. And computers are less forgiving of errors than people are--I understood you, despite your atrocious grammar and spelling. I'm not surprised your OS is hosed--you probably make as many errors when giving commands to your Mac as you do when writing,
Nope, actually, I use Debian Linux. This all the more convinces me not to switch over to Apple's proprietary OS.
So what, customers don't pay for the update? They pay for the original OS, which is what puts Apple in business. They have a right to expect quality.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
Those looking for answers here may also want to visit the other thread on this subject.
did not experience this problem. I did repair permissions right after the update but I didn't notice this problem at all.
So... you're crying about an update which might cause problems to an OS that you don't even use or own?
/me scratches head... ?:/
Installed 10.2.4 on our G4, iBook and Titanium. All worked fine except the Titanium laptop which now drops the internet connection under sleep or closing the cover (requiring a reboot to bring back the intgernet: mail or browser connections). The iBook and G4 are fine, holding their internet (cable via wireless or direct connect) just as the Titanium did til upgrading to 10.2.4. We've reinstalled 10.2.4 and the problem persists. Is there a known BUG? Solution? Go back to 10,2.3?
Appreciate any insight HERE!
Yes, but that's because us NZ colonials are descended from the scum of Britain. And proud of it. I do find though if I'm talking to someone from America (in real Life or on the net) I have to adopt Americanisms (i.e. not use colloquial language that's NZ/British) and put on an accent. You don't get that kind of problem with Canadians, though...
More testing indicates Cisco 3.6.1 VPN incompatibility with Mac OSX 2.4. 10.2.4. works fine on Titanium until VPN is installed when (whether VPN is active or not), the Titanium with OSX10.2.4 drops the internet every time the cover is closed or "sleep" is selected. When VPN is uninstalled, 10.2.4 works normally again. Is this an Apple or Cisco (or other) problem? 10.2.4 problem I suspect.