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Ebay's Flexible Privacy Policy
l2718 writes "Ha'aretz has a disquieting report on a presentation made by eBay's senior counsel to law-enforcement officials. Apparently eBay logs all user interaction with them, and will happily hand over all the information to any law-enforcement official without a warrant -- a fax is quite sufficient. He is actually proud of their 'flexible' privacy policy."
..did *his* soul go for on e-bay?
I don't know another Web site that has a privacy policy as flexible as eBay's," says Joseph Sullivan. A little bit later, Sullivan explains what he means by the term "flexible." Sullivan is director of the "law enforcement and compliance" department at eBay.com, the largest retailer in the world.
Sullivan was speaking to senior representatives of numerous law-enforcement agencies in the United States on the occasion of "Cyber Crime 2003," a conference that was held last week in Connecticut. His lecture was closed to reporters, and for good reason. Haaretz has obtained a recording of the lecture, in which Sullivan tells the audience that eBay is willing to hand over everything it knows about visitors to its Web site that might be of interest to an investigator. All they have to do is ask. "There's no need for a court order," Sullivan said, and related how the company has half a dozen investigators under contract, who scrutinize "suspicious users" and "suspicious behavior." The spirit of cooperation is a function of the patriotism that has surged in the wake of September 11.
eBay is the world's largest auction site. Some 62 million registered users buy and sell a variety of merchandise through the site, which charges commissions for every item sold. Sullivan claims that 150,000 Internet users earn their livelihood from the site, some having left their old jobs to become buyers or sellers on eBay.
The sales method on the site is simple: An individual registers as a user, types in his particulars, and affirms that he accepts the user conditions and the site's privacy policy. Whenever an item is sold, the buyer fills out an evaluation form, telling other users about the treatment he received, whether the merchandise was sent on time, etc. Other eBay users can then avoid buying from sellers who have received poor grades.
Sullivan says eBay has recorded and documented every iota of data that has come through the Web site since it first went online in 1995. Every time someone makes a bid, sells an item, writes about someone else, even when the company cancels a sale for whatever reason - it documents all of the pertinent information.
One would think that preserving privacy of the users, whose moves are so meticulously recorded, would be keenly observed at eBay, whose good name in the Internet community is one of its prime assets. But in the U.S. of the post 9/11 and pre-Gulf War II era, helping the "security forces" is considered a supreme act of patriotism.
Who needs a subpoena?
"We don't make you show a subpoena, except in exceptional cases," Sullivan told his listeners. "When someone uses our site and clicks on the `I Agree' button, it is as if he agrees to let us submit all of his data to the legal authorities. Which means that if you are a law-enforcement officer, all you have to do is send us a fax with a request for information, and ask about the person behind the seller's identity number, and we will provide you with his name, address, sales history and other details - all without having to produce a court order. We want law enforcement people to spend time on our site," he adds. He says he receives about 200 such requests a month, most of them unofficial requests in the form of an email or fax.
The meaning is clear. One fax to eBay from a lawman - police investigator, NSA, FBI or CIA employee, National Park ranger - and eBay sends back the user's full name, email address, home address, mailing address, home telephone number, name of company where seller is employed and user nickname. What's more, eBay will send the history of items he has browsed, feedbacks received, bids he has made, prices he has paid, and even messages sent in the site's various discussion groups.
Attorney Nimrod Kozlovski, author of "The Computer and the Legal Process" (in Hebrew), heard the lecture, and could not believe his ears. "The consent given in the user contract should be seen as `coerced consent,' in the absence of any opportunity to exercise free choice, with no real alternative but to agree. This is most certainly not conscious consent."
Kozlovski is part of the Information Society Project group at Yale Law School, in which he and his colleagues consider the effects of the new media on the structure of society. American law does not authorize searches of a person's home or body, he says, except in exceptional cases such as when the court authorizes a search, or when the individual gives his consent to a search.
"In the case before us, the Web site signs the user to a document that says it can do whatever it wants with his information. The eBay contract signed by the user concedes his or her rights to protection from the government; in essence, as soon as the contract is signed, eBay can invite the government to do whatever it wants with the information, he says.
A brief visit to the company's Web site reveals that the "user contract" that visitors are supposed to read before agreeing to the conditions is 4,023 words long. One paragraph makes reference to the site's "privacy policy." The user has to click on a link and is diverted to another document that is some 3,750 words long. It then takes another 2,390 words to reach the section about which Sullivan told the legal authorities: The user's privacy is solely up to eBay.
"The users are asked to read and agree to the site policy before they can make use of it," eBay spokesman Kevin Pursglove told Haaretz. "We provide a link to our privacy policy on every single page of our site, and provide summaries of this policy, all so that users will be familiar with our policy."
We will work for you
Nevertheless, eBay does not make do with simply sharing its data with the legal authorities. Sullivan says the company employs six investigators, all of whom have experience in police investigations. Their job is "to track down suspicious people and suspicious behavior." To that end, they scan for patterns that are atypical - different from "normal patterns." For example, if a person sold baseball tickets for two months and suddenly switches to selling a car, the eBay system will "wave a red flag" and signal the seller as someone behaving unusually. Who asks eBay to do it? No one. eBay volunteers.
eBay goes even further. In his lecture, Sullivan spoke about how he helped investigators locate a user who had been suspected of selling stolen cars through the site. "We tried to buy the car from the thief and in that way incriminate him. But the bad guy was smart. He saw there wasn't a single feedback in the history of the person who was making the purchase. He told us he didn't want to make a deal with us."
Sullivan explained that the incident taught the company a lesson, and that since then it has used pseudo buyers for which it constructs comprehensive simulated histories, including simulated feedbacks, all for the sake of incriminating those suspected of theft. "eBay is not willing to tolerate acts of fraud carried out on its site," explains Pursglove. "We believe that one of the ways to fight fraud is to cooperate with the legal authorities at the various levels.
Sullivan is even more forthcoming. Aware of how hard the police work, he decided to help as much as possible. "Tell us what you want to ask the bad guys. We'll send them a form, signed by us, and ask them your questions. We will send their answers directly to your e-mail." Essentially, by engaging in what seems like impersonation, eBay is exploiting its relationship with customers to pass on information to law enforcement authorities. Why? "We take various steps in order to fight fraud and provide a safe buying environment for our numerous users," says Pursglove.
"In order to prevent misuse of authority, the law ensures that authorized impersonation will only be used with persons suspected of carrying out illegal activity," says Pursglove. But eBay's practice is to impersonate people on a regular basis, for law-enforcement objectives. However, "there need not be a proven connection or well-founded suspicion of a crime having been performed," claims Kozlovski.
In July 2002, eBay bought PayPal, Inc. for $1.45 billion. PayPal, which offers the most popular means of payment on eBay, provides clearing services for the execution of online transactions. It enables Internet users to open accounts on the company site, transferring money from their credit card or bank account. When carrying out a transaction, the seller receives a certificate with which money can be withdrawn from the buyer's account in cash. The system obviates the need to reveal personal financial data.
When Paypal was acquired, the company reported 16 million users, as well as 3 million business accounts and 28,000 new visitors to the site each day. About 60 percent of PayPal's income derives from commissions received from users buying goods on eBay. About 70 percent of eBay buyers use PayPal.
Two years earlier, eBay bought Half.com, a site that specializes in sales of CDs and books. Sullivan explained that these acquisitions help eBay to provide lawmen with a full picture. "Every book or CD comes with a bar code. So we know who bought what. The acquisition of PayPal helps us to locate people more precisely. In the old days, we had to trace IP addresses (unique address given to computers linked to the Internet), to locate the buyer, but now Paypal supplies us with the money trail.
PayPal has about 20 million customers, which means that we have 20 millions files on its users," Sullivan proudly relates. "If you contact me, I will hook you up with the Paypal people. They will help you get the information you're looking for," he tells his listeners. "In order to give you details about credit card transactions, I have to see a court order. I suggest that you get one, if that's what you're looking for." It isn't certain that visitors to the site are aware of the thick hints eBay gives the lawmen.
"By buying PayPal, eBay is merging the information about the goods trail with the money trail," explains Kozlovski. "Thus, in spite of the protective mechanisms of the law against disclosure of details on transactions, eBay is in a position to analyze the full set of data and `advise' investigators when it might be `worthwhile' for them to ask for a subpoena to disclose the details of a financial transaction. Essentially, this bypasses the rules on non-disclosure of details of financial transactions and the confidentiality of the banker-client relationship."
Kozlovski mentions how special investigator Kenneth Starr issued a court order that ordered the bookstore where Monica Lewinsky bought her books to report to him the names of the books she bought. "Then, there was a huge fuss. Now you don't need a special order - eBay does the work for the investigators."
Kozlovski feels that eBay's practice should be seen as part of a worrisome trend in the West to curtail protection of individual rights. In communist regimes, he says, the state would assign watchers to follow every citizen, who would pass incriminating information on to the authorities. Now the state doesn't have to do a thing. People come to it of their own free will. This is also the case for eBay, which exploits its stature in the market to have users accept contracts that strip them of their privacy. Perhaps the regime is different, but the outcome is most assuredly the same.
A million new items a day
eBay has no operations in Israel. But in the U.S., Europe and even the Far East, the name eBay is uttered in the same breath with names like Yahoo, Google and Amazon. The company created an electronic business arena where sellers offer their wares and buyers purchase them. eBay's trick is that both the sellers and the buyers are ordinary citizens. On eBay, you can find people selling used chewing gum (and there are buyers), torn soccer balls, 18th century forks, sunflower seeds and luxury cars (in 2002 alone, some 3,000 cars were sold on the site, at a total of $30 million.)
eBay is one of the few Internet companies that shows huge profits quarter after quarter. The company completed the fourth quarter of 2002 with revenues of $414 million and net profits of $87 million. The company had overall income in 2002 of $1.2 billion, and net profits of $250 million. It is traded on Nasdaq at a company value of $23.4 billion - three times that of Amazon, twice that of Yahoo and eight times that of the Israeli security behemoth, Checkpoint.
At any given moment, eBay is conducting some 12 million auctions, divided into about 18,000 different categories. About two million new items are offered for sale every day, and 62 million registered users scour the site to find them. These users have given eBay the monopoly on online auctions in America. Companies such as Yahoo and Amazon tried to get into the auction market, but were forced to give up. An estimated 150,000 people earn their livelihoods solely from buying and selling items by Internet. The company maintains local sites in Britain, Germany, Italy, South Korea, Ireland, Australia, Spain, Singapore and Sweden.
eBay is a monster that churns out money 24 hours a day, 365 days a year - for itself and for its millions of users.
I've got a fax machine...
Maybe you need letterhead.
Oh, I've got an Internet connection, and plenty of places have seals and official logos online. The quality isn't great, but hey - it's a fax, right?
Maybe you need a phone number.
Oh, I've gota phone I can sit by and pretend to be whoever I want when I answer it.
What was it Kevin Mitnick said about social engineering?
That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
They could always just auction the entire database on eBay every once in a while.
Don't complain about eBay and other companies doing this--complain about the laws that don't protect our privacy. Talk to your representative and make the case for protecting such information if this kind of thing bothers you (and it should).
In this current age of "let's go get them badguys", is anyone really surprised that a company would so willingly acquiesce to the government? Should they? Good question, but are you surprised that they DO?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/
. ht ml
It appears they have a presence in the UK. Therefore the Data Protection Act applies to them. They make no mention of this in their Privacy Policy:
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/community/png-priv
Oh, dear. Looks like someone should shop them to the Data Protection Registrar...
I don't care how small a point font it was printed in,
as long as it was printed on the site when I registered, or sent to me in an e-mail update.
Now, the legality of defining their policy and having you click-thru is still up in the air with EULAs; just because its printed in legalese doesn't mean it will hold up in court.
But to give me a warm fuzzy, disclose it to me.
Why? Because there are a lot of rip-off artists on e-bay. If it makes it easier for law enforcement to find and fine these scummy ebayers, that is a GOOD THING.
Honestly, I'd rather have E-bay in my corner if I get screwed than to have them go the PayPal route.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
I can web-scrape all that same info off the site.
Bid histories for each auction, items you've bidded on, auctions you've won... Yep.. It's all there.
I've been spammed to death because of eBay (luckily I use a hotmail address with them). I bought a couple of old SNES games, next thing you know 100 yahoos are offering me CD's full of ROM images for 20 bucks or so.
Tracing your email address to the actual person is a small hoop to jump through.
Any real privacy on eBay is a figment of your imagination. It's like expecting your trip to the mall to be 'private'.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
I usually am for privacy, but you use eBay with an intent to make profit by selling your crap/loot/whatever. If you're obviously selling stolen goods on eBay, then the police should be informed.
Belgian diamonds anyone?
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
Most sites have clauses in their privacy policies saying that they can change them at any time without notifying users, and the changes are retroactive to any information they already have. It's up to the user to notice the changes by reviewing the policy regularly and finding contact information for someone who can remove it, then askin them to do so before they have time to give the information away if it changes.
Yup, when that happens, a lot of police are going to head over to Anne Nonymouse's place in Beverly Hills 90210. I think she's ordering a lot of child porn.
Don't bother emailing eBay in cases of fraud. You may or may not get an answer. Sounds like the way to go is to get a local police department to take a complaint. Hand them the request for information to fax for you. Post the results...
Envy my 5 digit Slashdot User ID!
Admire that string of X's in the "Legal Requests" column.
If you have ever been ripped off or defrauded on ebay, you would look at this from a different perspective.
The last thing I want to do when someone defrauds me using ebay is jump through the many legal hoops to obtain a warrant.
As stated, this information can only be requested by law enforcement, and trust me, law enforcement officials don't get off of from violating your privacy and requesting it just for kicks. This is a welcome move that will help people that got screwed recover their money a little easier and a little faster. I, and many other ebayers, welcome the policy.
Witold
www.witold.org
witold.org
Not that I condone it for even a second - how can eBay (yes, /. editors, that's how it's spelt, how can you not get that much right?) be sure that the person requesting the information is a legitimate law enforcement official?
Even if they were, any information garnered in this way would immediately be thrown out of court in most countries (including the US) as inadmissible, because the source would be deemed an illegal search if the proper warrants hadn't been obtained.
Without even examining the link it's obvious why eBay would do this - verifying the legality and scope of every warrant that it is presented with takes time, and time costs money. Rather than spend this time and money unproductively (cooperating with police officers doesn't produce revenues), they choose the path of least resistance.
Unfortunately, eBay is sufficiently large enough (or at least it thinks it is) that it doesn't see this as a reason for people to defect to less popular rival online auction sites.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
If a competing auction site were to be setup with greater privacy, and was successful, more power to it. As long as eBay fully discloses its policies, then there shouldn't be any whining about it -- folks are free to vote with their mouse, and click on another auction site
Personally, I think it's positive that eBay will cooperate with bona fide investigations, and not force them to jump through hoops (at taxpayer expense!) to get the data they need to do their job.
It's not as though medical records are being stored on eBay -- just one's bids on beanie babies, or other baubles.
Even scarier ... who owns PayPal these days?
I hear some people use it like a bank. Would you want your financial info tossed around like that?
One more reason so stay way from Paypal.
yes, Ebay now owns paypal-
However what I'm referring to is problems where people paid through paypal, never got an item in return, and paypal said "sucks to be you. What do you want me to do about it?!"
Here is a link to Paypal's class action suits... read the front page story.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
If I placed an ad in the paper selling something (say, a large supply of ammonium nitrate fertilizer), and the police came up to me and asked me about what people came and inquired about it, I would tell them without hesitation. Big deal.
Guess what? There is no right to anonymity. And law enforcement has to have SOME room to work. Too many people seem to think that law enforcement should be required to never ask questions and never access the public.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
I work for a banking service provider (one of the guys who run the banking software for the little 1-50 branch banks). A few years ago we used to get excited because the Secret Service or FBI wanted us to pull some records. These days we almost need a full time person to track this stuff down. This week we got a call from a homicide detective in Columbus, OH. (Is that really a city?) The detail we can provide these guys is pretty complete - even if it's just a lame web banking hack attempt, we can often link that attempt back to a specific ISP user (because the ISP often attaches additional information to web requests - ahem, AOL) as well as tell ever single transaction that account, that IP, that user has done since XXX. And what does it take for people to get the information? At first we only trusted agents with ID at the door, but it really is getting to the point of a phone call and a fax; in fact, the best way to social engineer these days might just be to pretend you're a cop - the person on the other end of the phone (at least at my place) will generally roll over and cough up whatever you want by the second phone call. Fortunately, some management types have started to pay attention to the hack opportunity provided and are beginning to educate the first-line responders to these kind of calls that just because they say they are cops, doesn't mean they really are....
Yesterday I tried to delete my account, but I can not, it will not let me.
I do not ever intend to use ebay, but it seems my account will forever be there.
Annoying that.
Say the RIAA comes knocking on Ebay's door and wants a list of everyone who sold, bought, traded, anything with live boots, records, vinyl, cd's etc etc of any major label artist. Or what if the label themselves gets involved.
I think some people would have different opinions on this privacy issue, although I agree when it comes to the scam artists a heightened police interventention level would be welcome.
Fear Breeds Knowledge
This should be the final proof, if proof were required, that privacy policies and TRUSTe seals audits and seals are ineffective at protecting consumers.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
AFAIK if the data goes out of Europe, you need to opt-in...
As an Ebay user, 200 request a month for personal information seems high to me.
I could have a buddy that works at the police department. If I visit him frequently, nobody would see a problem with me saying he is expecting me and I will just wait in his office. While he is at lunch, I could use his fax machine and request the information of anybody I want.
When all else fails, piss on it. At least you will feel better in some kind of way.
If you are selling on ebay. Read the agreement.
Thanks for your attention.
My Ass hurts.
Public use of any portable music system is a virtually guaranteed indicator of sociopathic tendencies. -- Zoso
Most of the information is readily available to other eBay users. I think, however, that more information should be made public and readily accessible (with the exception of email addresses).
For example, the guy that sniped me a couple weeks ago, on a nice 24V, 6A power supply. I looked in his history, and saw that he'd recently bought some, ermmm, enhancement products. It's the little things (heh heh) like this that take the pain out of losing an auction.
...
Prior to that, a phone call is all that is necessary to a service provider to legally obligate them to preserve whatever records they already have for the given subject. This power comes from 18 USC 2703 (f) and is known as an "Order to Preserve." It does not require the service provider to start collecting new information, or collect more than they previously were, just to preserve what they already have. That gives law enforcement time to draft the court order and get it signed.
Legal counsel at service providers know these issues very well. eBay is apparently choosing to make life easier on the legal end of things by offering a certain level of cooperation. Notice it did say they would require a warrant in certain situations, so it's not 100%.
Dataprotection in EU si not about where the data is stored. It is about having the right to know, check , and correct data stored on YOU , EU citizen. Likewise like USA saying they have the right to Sue/pursue people having done sales in the USA, when you do have a transaction with somebody in the EU what count is not where you store the data , but the fact that you have per see a contract/sale with somebody resident in EU.
Else this would have been YEARS that every EU firm would have put their Data server in some off shore haven.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
I work in Student Records at a technical college in MN. I will NOT allow anyone to request information over the phone. They must either MAIL or FAX me a request with a hand written signature in order for me to release this information to them...
State and Federal law states that people can request information over the phone if it is going directly to them and *I* feel that it is really that person. Problem here is that I cannot verify if it is really them and the social engineering thing comes into play. So basically I won't accept any phone requests. I feel that I cannot safely determine who the person is if I don't see a handwritten request.
Oh, for chrissakes - handwritten requests are completely and utterly useless. Let me guess, it has to be on letterhead? See parent post regarding availability thereof...
So I fax you a request. It has Police Department letterhead...or something similar. I mean, you don't know what the Jackass Police Department's letterhead looks like. And I sign it as the chief of Jackass Police Department. You don't know what his signature looks like either. And I put my phone number on it - but it has the same area code and extension as the main number, so it could be a non-main phone line. Or maybe I made up a police department that doesn't even exist.
How many E-bay knobs are going to fully check this? Are they going to get a directory assistance to find the PD and check the number? Are they going to talk to the chief, from the phone number they looked up, to make sure he ordered the data? What if they can't find the department's listing (could be a small department, could be I made it up)? Probably none of the above.
When you get down to it, faxed requests are pretty much worthless. Which is why I would want a warrant served by law enforcement personnel who I could easily check up on. As for DNR, I don't believe that helps with ebay.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
From the article:
Attorney Nimrod Kozlovski, author of "The Computer and the Legal Process" (in Hebrew), heard the lecture, and could not believe his ears. "The consent given in the user contract should be seen as `coerced consent,' in the absence of any opportunity to exercise free choice, with no real alternative but to agree. This is most certainly not conscious consent."
I think this says it all. We are rapidly becoming a society in which corporations can strip individuals of their liberties not by virtue of law, but by using onerous contracts.
Imagine if the utility companies forced a person to hand over keys to their residence when they signed up for service, so that the company could "inspect the premises in the interests of public safety". It wouldn't be long before the utility company would realize that they can make additional income by "renting" your key to law enforcement agencies on demand. But you, the resident would effectively have no say in this - you either agree to their terms, or you do without gas/electric/phone service.
You see, the danger of this is that by "renting" the key, law enforcement no longer needs a warrant to search your house; you implicitly gave consent for entry to the utility company, who then resold that consent to law enforcement. It is these kinds of agreements which allow law enforcement to circumvent the checks and balances gauranteed by the constitution, and this is what makes them so dangerous.
How long will it be before our lives and liberties are entirely beholden to corporate interests?
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
Imagine being able to search:
Every page you've ever been to.
What you have searched for on Google.
Everything you have looked at, purchased, or sold on eBay.
All financial information from Paypal.
All the people you've sent/recieved email to/from.
I'm sure I'm missing a few things - but who needs TIA when these companies are bending over backwards to provide all this info?
Poindexter probably figured this out and got a raise for saving so much money... :(
However, I really don't like the idea of the authorities being able to make casual inquiries via fax. At the very least, issue a subpoena in which you state a legitimate law enforcement purpose for the inquiry. For this, you only have to get the approval of your police legal advisor or a prosecutor.
The way this looks right now, cops can "browse" through anyone they want to check on, just to see if they can find anything suspicious. While this is certainly not the behavior most of us would engage in, there are always those willing to abuse this kind of device.
Those with a legitimate purpose can easily obtain the information with just a little bit of extra effort, whereas those who are just casually cruising through users (say, randomly checking any high-volume ebayers) may be discouraged by having to articulate a legitimate law enforcement purpose for each case.
As to self-policing on the part of ebay, I have absolutely no problem with that. Just like the Pawn shop owner who sees someone coming in with car stereos all the time, ebay has an ethical duty (in my opinion, with which you may disagree) to report people they believe may be engaging in criminal activity.
There is actually no Constitutional right to privacy.
There is in California...83chrise.nuf
I think you're missing a point here.
Suppose you screw me in an auction. I fax in a request for your info, find out where you live, where you work etc.
Now I don't have to settle for just marking you as a bad seller/buyer, I can give personal punishment.
It's not a freedom/safety issue. It's not about violent criminal behavior. It's about money.
Specifically, states are busy passing laws allowing collection of taxes on internet sales, but most of these sales go unreported. (Think about it, did you list last year's eBay sales on your 1040? Well, neither did anyone else.) So this is their method for reporting. And thanks to eBay's "flexible" reporting system, a simple fax request is all that's needed. No need for a time-consuming, cumbersome warrant with all those messy rules about Judge's signatures and prior evidence... just a bored cop's desire to go trolling for evil tax evaders.
"Dear eBay,
Please send us a list of all the transactions in the past 7 years from customers in the 90210 area code.
Thank you,
Sgt. Jackass, Podunk California Police Department."
It's simple. If they want to collect taxes on unreported sales, they start with records from the largest online retailer, the one who hands out information no questions asked. Thanks for nothing, eBay!
I'll bet Google does the same thing as EBay -- it's just that Google isn't dumb enough to brag about it. From New York Times, 28 November 2002, page E6:
"Google currently does not allow outsiders to gain access to raw data because of privacy concerns. Searches are logged by time of day, originating I.P. address (information that can be used to link searches to a specific computer), and the sites on which the user clicked. People tell things to search engines that they would never talk about publicly -- Viagra, pregnancy scares, fraud, face lifts. What is interesting in the aggregate can seem an invasion of privacy if narrowed to an individual.
"So, does Google ever get subpoenas for its information? 'Google does not comment on the details of legal matters involving Google,' Mr. Brin responded."
There is actually no Constitutional right to privacy. People like to conjure out of of vapors eminating from other amendments, but it is all smoke and mirrors: it is NOT there. I would be in favor of amending the Constitution to add this right.
The Roe v Wade case pretty much estabished the right to privacy, as that was one of the main points used to win the case.
I posted much the same message on the OC Systems thread yesterday, but it also applies here. There seem to be a lot of "Yeah, I got ripped off, but eBay wouldn't do anything about it so now I'm hosed" responses. If you've been ripped off, COMPLAIN. Complain to the company first, but if they don't give you any satisfaction, have the charge blocked on your credit card. If that isn't enough, or that isn't an option, then you need to bring out the big guns and rat them out to the feds! And here are just the websites to do it on:
a udComplaint.htm: The US Postal Inspector's Mail Fraud Report Form. I've used this for a few small value (less than $50) items I've returned to ebay merchants who then didn't send the refund despite repeated e-mails and phone calls. After complaining to the USPS, the rip-off artist got a letter from them and paid up darn quick. And you CAN follow up if no action is taken. I have a lot of criticisms of the U.S. Snail, but this is one area where government action actually seems to work.
http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/MailFr
https://www.ifccfbi.gov/cf1.asp : The FBI's Fraud Complaint Form. The FBI seems a lot less active in prosecuting small cases than USPS, but i get the impression that if they get a LOT of complaints from people on the same company, they start to look in on it. Worth a try.
Remember: Every time you let someone rip you off without calling them on it, it makes it that much easier for them to rip off other people down the line.
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
I think that you need to pay more attention to the Bill of Rights:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
And, just in case you do not think gathering evidence applies there, let me throw this one at you:
Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
In other words, just because the Constitution does not say you have the right to privacy does not mean you are denied such a right. It only means that the founding fathers did not foresee the requirement to say, "You have the right to privacy."
Andrew Borntreger
Champion of cinematic disasters