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Michigander Beats Spammer With "Junk Fax" Law

TastyWords writes "According to this link, it's possible to apply the 'junk fax law' to successfully sue a spammer in small claims court. For those who are stuck in states which either have worthless (or near-worthless) anti-spam legislation, this creative approach of the law presents a creative method of turning the table on those who choose to spam first and ask questions later. All of the details are available for enterprising anti-spammers!" Update: 02/25 00:30 GMT by T : OK, so it's Michigander, not Michiganian. Too long as a Texon, Marylandite and Tennesseenaut.

88 of 432 comments (clear)

  1. Michigander by paradesign · · Score: 4, Funny

    we're Michiganders BTW

    --
    I want 2D games back.
    1. Re:Michigander by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Interesting
      we're Michiganders BTW

      I remember when that whole stupid PC thing started, 'michiganians', huh!

      What I'd like to know is if something like Junk-Fax can be used to bust michiganoid Alan Ralsky. On a per-item basis, one should be able to seize his house, eh?

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:Michigander by arkanes · · Score: 4, Funny

      As in, whats good for the Michigoose is good for the Michigander?

    3. Re:Michigander by spamsuitatyahoodotco · · Score: 2, Informative

      My name is Mark Reinertson, I'm the guy. If you want to know more about this lawsuit and how I won, please email me at spamsuit@yahoo.com Thank you.

    4. Re:Michigander by mjh · · Score: 3, Funny

      I went to a boarding school for High School. There were a lot of folks from Michigan who attended. They liked to call themselves "michiganders". I always called them "michigeese". For some reason, they didn't seem to like that. And I seemed to get beat up a lot.

      --
      Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
  2. Money ! by IanBevan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And for those who haven't read the article, one of the key things as far as I am concerned is the fact that the plaintiff won an award of $539.00 (including court costs). Multiply that by a-very-large-number-of-spam victims and I think some damage will be done.

    1. Re:Money ! by blincoln · · Score: 2, Insightful

      IIRC, you must file small-claims suits against defendents in their own districts.

      $539.00 isn't so great if you have to buy airfare and take time off from work for your court date.

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    2. Re:Money ! by BadDoggie · · Score: 4, Informative
      No. You file where YOU are, which is where the crime took place. A spam mesage may have bounced through servers in New Zeland, China, South Africa and Kazakhstan, but it ended up where you are. This is no different from buying a mail order widget that doesn't work. The company may be in East Nowhere, North Dakota, but if you're in Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, you sue them in the Frostbite Falls courts, and you have any advantages Frostbite Falls law might lend you. This doen't preclude you from suing in East Nowhere, but you need to show their violation under East Nowhere law, whereas in Frostbite Falls, the widget didn't work.

      Example: Don't sue corporations in Delaware; Delaware sells itself as corporation-friendly. Their laws are set up to make incorporation easy and make all things nice for corporations. Just have a look-see at the Central Delaware Chamber of Commerce site before you disagree. I set up two corporations in DE myself.

    3. Re:Money ! by blincoln · · Score: 4, Informative

      You file where YOU are, which is where the crime took place.

      Experts disagree.

      (From the first link)

      "You sue an Illinois citizen in an Illinois state court for breach of contract. It doesn't matter where you live, or where the events leading up to the lawsuit took place because an Illinois state court has personal jurisdiction over all citizens of Illinois."

      This makes sense. Otherwise it would be incredibly unfair to defendents, who would have to travel to the location of the plaintiff on the plaintiff's whim.

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    4. Re:Money ! by arkanes · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Otherwise it would be incredibly unfair to defendents, who would have to travel to the location of the plaintiff on the plaintiff's whim.

      That's kind of the point :P. IANAL, but I certainly know of several cases where people have had to travel to defend themselves in court. I know it's happened in several cases where people have sued telemarketers (under state no-call laws), and there's one guy with a fish store in New York who's made a habit of suing people who badmouth him, and one of the reasons he's so successfull is that they either have to travel to NY or hire a local attorney to defend it. Sadly, I'm far too lazy to provide links, and I can't remember the guys name to search for anyway.

      I believe this may fall under the "minimum contacts" clause that's mentioned in your first link.

    5. Re:Money ! by Zeinfeld · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Experts [nolo.com] disagree [fraserlawfirm.com].

      Experts, schmeckperts. Law is decided by judges, not lawyers. And if you read the history of practically any Internet related lawsuit you will see that the plaintif can usually get a suit brought in the court of their choice.

      Ralsky tried very hard to get the cyberpromotions suit taken away from Virginia's rocket docket to his own state where it takes three years to get a first hearing. And he failled.

      This makes sense. Otherwise it would be incredibly unfair to defendents, who would have to travel to the location of the plaintiff on the plaintiff's whim.

      In Internet cases the courts have generally considered that companies are doing business anywhere that they solicit it. The solicitation happens anywhere the defendant could reasonably expect that the message would be read.

      --
      Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
      Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
    6. Re:Money ! by edmong · · Score: 2, Informative

      This thread is a little old, but thought I'd add my 2 cents.

      Quoting from "Business Law and the Regulatory Environment" by Mallor, Barnes, Bowers, Phillips, and Langvardt:

      "In addition, many states have enacted 'long-arm' statutes that give their courts in personam jurisdiction over certain out-of-state defendants. Under these statutes, nonresident individuals and businesses become subject to the state's jurisdiction by, for example, doing business within the state, contracting to supply goods or services within the state, or committing a tort (civil wrong) within the state."

      You could argue that this is the case here, so if your state has such a statute, you're good to go.

  3. Junk Faxes by corsec67 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    At my work, my bos is collecting all of the junk faxes he gets, and someting he is going to take all of these to small claims court. This is great for a precident to be set against an online junk emailer. The problem is identification, though.

    --
    If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
  4. one question by ubugly2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They didn't appeal, I got my check. They also sent out a contract thing they wanted me to sign as a disclaimer of responsibility and liability and all this nonsense. I talked to their attorney and he said it was standard. I said, "Not standard for me and I'm not signing it, I will be depositing your check however." He wasn't too happy about that, ... Iwonder what was in the disclamer?

    1. Re:one question by royalblue_tom · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Who cares - when you win the case, you don't need to sign anything. If they had settled out of court, it might be part of the agreement, but to try it on after they had already lost?

    2. Re:one question by Telecommando · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, it usually says you won't sue even if it happens again.

      And it probably will. Otherwise they wouldn't have asked him to sign the waiver.

      --
      Beta sux! Join the Slashcott! http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4760465&cid=46173047
  5. Alan Ralsky by ShaiHulud-23 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I seem to remember seeing Ralksy's address somewhere (wink, nudge)... he's a resident of Michigan. Now we just need every citizen of the state to sue him for a couple hundred bucks each.

    1. Re:Alan Ralsky by jcr · · Score: 4, Funny

      He is indeed in Michigan. I look forward to seeing that SOB buried in small claims actions in Michigan.

      Let's see... How many people has he spammed in MI? A few million or so?

      Call it "The Death of a Million Cuts."

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    2. Re:Alan Ralsky by TastyWords · · Score: 2, Funny

      Even better...(when faxing to someone)...fax a black piece of construction paper. I wonder how much toner would be left in their fax machine after just one page?

    3. Re:Alan Ralsky by neo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Can someone give me a concrete example of spam he has sent? If I've recieved it then look out Alan. ;-)

  6. Finally. by vmxeo · · Score: 3, Funny

    1) Hunt down spammers
    2) ???
    3) Profit!



    ...and now we have the missing step 2. Thanks Mark!

  7. I hope this has any affect... by MechCow · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I hope this has some affect but I don't see how it can. If spammers can be sued in Michigan, or even in all of America, what stops the spammers using nations do not recognise US law? Instead of Sears now shutting down it's spam operations (which I assume are incredibly popular) won't it just contract it out overseas through some shady company? Surely it must be proved that they were indeed the originators of the spam?

    --

    --
    On Slashdot I'm a lawyer.
  8. Eh what? by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    " For those who are stuck in states which either have worthless (or near-worthless) anti-spam legislation..."

    Uh.. what? What states don't fall in that category?

    Seriously, is there a state that's got the problem under control?

    1. Re:Eh what? by worst_name_ever · · Score: 2, Informative
      Seriously, is there a state that's got the problem under control?

      Here's how to find out...

      --

      In Soviet Rush, today's Tom Sawyer gets high on you.
  9. Good news, but it won't help... by SlashChick · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Although I think laws such as the junk fax law are a step in the right direction, the problem I see with most spam is that the headers have been forged to the point of illegitimacy. Sure, if they include a link to a website, you could go after the person or people listed in the WHOIS record, but it would be easy for the administrative contact to claim that he or she didn't send the spam.

    Sears is an easy target -- they probably sent semi-legitimate spam that included contact and/or removal information, as well as the Sears website. However, I doubt that $500 will steer Sears in the right direction regarding spam. For $500, it's easier for them to write a check than to pursue it in court. I'd guess they made several thousand dollars off the spam mail, and that the $500 was written off as a cost of doing business.

    My point is, that between completely illegitimate spam that doesn't even have any real contact information, and companies that make a lot of money off of spam and who don't mind writing a $500 check every once in a while, this law won't be very effective.

    I will continue to argue that spam is a technical problem and needs a technical solution to solve it. Ultimately, even if the big companies like Sears stop spamming, there will always be the spammers who send out 100 million penis enlargement spam mails with fake headers and fake return addresses that render the spam nearly impossible to trace. The illegitimate spam problem won't be solved by laws -- it will be solved by the intelligence of the Internet community. I'd rather see this solved by technical prowess than by laws that will only encourage spammers to fake their mail headers to avoid lawsuits.

    1. Re:Good news, but it won't help... by The-P · · Score: 2, Interesting

      who don't mind writing a $500 check every once in a while
      Yes $500 is nothing, but if everyone starts to fight.
      $500 a day, $500 5 times a day, ...
      We are talking about serious amounts of cash, even to a company the size of Sears. Not to mention it probably cost them another $500 per appearance in attorney's time. I do agree though that the spammers that are untraceable will be the hardest to stop. My $0.02

      --
      Just My $0.02
  10. So does this not work with broadband? by Sirion · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Under United States law, it is unlawful "to use any telephone facsimile machine, computer, or other device to send an unsolicited advertisement" to any "equipment which has the capacity (A) to transcribe text or images (or both) from an electronic signal received over a regular telephone line onto paper." " Seems like this would be a nice source of spare income if it could be done reliably, but do I have to use a modem? :P

    1. Re:So does this not work with broadband? by KillerCow · · Score: 2, Informative

      Under United States law, it is unlawful "to use any telephone facsimile machine, computer, or other device to send an unsolicited advertisement" to any "equipment which has the capacity (A) to transcribe text or images (or both) from an electronic signal received over a regular telephone line onto paper." " Seems like this would be a nice source of spare income if it could be done reliably, but do I have to use a modem?

      No, you just need to have the capacity to.

    2. Re:So does this not work with broadband? by rworne · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My DSL connection consists of an "electronic signal received over a regular telephone line".

      I also have a printer, and run my own mail server.

      All I have to do now is make a few accounts and post some drivel on Usenet without masking my e-mail address and watch the funds come rolling in.

      I'd do it in a heartbeat, but it's the moving to Michigan part that gives me pause.

      Before any of you Michigan residents hit that "Moderate-Troll" button, just take note that I currently reside in California, so y'all can get a good laugh on my expense too.

      --
      I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
    3. Re:So does this not work with broadband? by idontgno · · Score: 2, Interesting
      "received over a regular telephone line onto paper."
      Seems like this would be a nice source of spare income if it could be done reliably, but do I have to use a modem? :P

      I have a cable modem. Does that count? It's pretty regular; I've never seen it constipated at all.

      More seriously, how tortured of a legal theory do you need to construct to cover broadband users? What is a "regular telephone line"? Does my cable modem count if my phone service is also provided by the cable co? If I'm using VOIP?

      This news is mildly encouraging, but because it hinges on such a specific "technicality" (I love using that phrase in a legal context), I don't see how much it helps a lot of us.

      Oh, yeah, IANAL, so consider my legal interpretation with great scepticism.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    4. Re:So does this not work with broadband? by rworne · · Score: 2, Informative

      AFAIR, California unsolicited fax lawsuits are fruitless because California "opted-out" of the federal law.

      That is, California has their own implementation of the fax law, which requires an removal number and removal upon request. So junk faxers can do so until you notify them, then they sell your fax number to the next guy.

      --
      I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
  11. Re:Got go low tech by KillerCow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Read the article. His tenuous argument is that email is similar to a fax, because he uses a dialup fax modem to read his email

    No, the argument was that his computer is a "telephone facsimile machine" since it can "... transcribe text or images (or both) from an electronic signal received over a regular telephone line onto paper" as required by the statute. Further, the statute prohibits "[using] any telephone facsimile machine, computer, or other device to send an unsolicited advertisement to a telephone facsimile machine". The statute does not state that the advertisement must be sent over a telephone line, only that it must be sent to a "telephone facsimile machine".

    Ie, the sender used a "computer" to send an "unsolicited advertisement" to his "telephone facsimile machine," which is prohibited section (b)(1)(C) of the statute.

    On that note, how many of us use a fax modem any more
    I doesnt matter, if your computer has one, then it is a "telephone facsimile machine" as defined by the statute.

  12. Small CLaims by indiigo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've always suspected that it will come down to small claims court to bring spammers down. And it won't be attorneys, it'll be the little guy like you and I.
    Here's why:

    1. We have the time. A reward of $500 a day isn't too bad, tax free, I assume. Getting the headers, and finding a local spammer is the most difficult part of our task.

    2. It pays. Illegal acts are being committed, even without the fax laws, there are truth-in-advertising laws, smut laws, etc.

    3. Spammers are in your state. The sheer volume of mail sent means you're likely to eventually getting spam that originates from your state. This is important as most small claims courts will require both parties reside n the same area.

    I'm employed, not really worth my time, but there's a business model and a "Support-your-American-Economy" cheeriness about this. Now go take on the day!

    --
    fslg503-985-8686503-985-8686503-985-8686503-985-86 8650 3-985-fdsg8686503-985-8686503-985-8686503-9
    1. Re:Small CLaims by EmagGeek · · Score: 2, Funny

      Tax free? Compensatory damages are tax free. However, punitive damages are not. I believe that damages awarded under the TCPA are classified as punitive, considering the compensatory portion, the actual cost of a page of paper and the ink on it, is like 3 cents (or $54.95 if you have an HP inkjet).

  13. It is valid. by www.sorehands.com · · Score: 4, Informative

    The definition of a fax machine under the TCPA does cover a computer with faxmodem and printer. There are many lawyers who argue that it is not intended to be used that way and the courts will not support it. I have been unable to find any binding case (ruled on by an appeals court) in the country that has said a computer with faxmodem and printer does not qualify as a fax machine. The only case that comes close is one that argues over jurisdiction in state of federal court. The appeals court mentioned that it was spam in a footnote, but took no action. As this was an appeals of a summary judgment, the court had the ability to dismiss on the issue of spam TCPA not applying to spam, but did not do so.

    More information is at http://www.phillipsnizer.com/int-art111.htm

    1. Re:It is valid. by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Insightful
      > The definition of a fax machine under the TCPA does cover a computer with faxmodem and printer. There are many lawyers who argue that it is not intended to be used that way and the courts will not support it. I have been unable to find any binding case (ruled on by an appeals court) in the country that has said a computer with faxmodem and printer does not qualify as a fax machine.

      IANAL.

      How about a computer, a dialup modem, fetchmail or other POP client, and a cron job that regularly fetches mail and pipes the newly-fetched mail to lpr?

      That also sounds like it would qualify as equipment (computer, modem, printer) which has the capacity transcribe text or images from an electronic signal (noise to/from the modem) received over a regular telephone line (which is why I specified dialup) onto paper (which is why I specified lpr and a printer).

      For a better case, burn a Linux distro onto a CDROM, and turn an old PC/modem/printer as an embedded system. "Well, some of us like to print our email. I don't like to check my email. When I come home from a hard day at the office, all my email is printed out in the output tray of the printer, where I can easily read it."

      That sounds nuts to us, but I can think of several non-technical people who actually do treat their email that way -- "Email? That's like interoffice memos! Yeah, my secretary prints it all out, sorts 'em, and puts 'em in the inbox on my desk. By 10:00 am, I'm done dictating answers to my secretary, and I give her the tape so she can type up my replies on her computer thingy and send them out!"

      Heck, if you end up taking this to court, your judge may in fact be one of those people. But then again, IANAL :)

  14. Nice! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I was wondering how one might argue that e-mail == fax (unless the law is very loosely worded) from the write-up. Here's what the article says:
    Essentially, I argued that under the title code, my computer is also a fax machine and that email is really no different from fax. My computer has a fax modem, fax software, a scanner and a printer, I received this email using a dial up phone line connection and printed the message.
    That's really creative! (Especially from a non-lawyer).

    It's not even particularly deceitful -- the reason fax spamming is illegal is because you use the resources of the recipient fax machine and associated items (fax paper, ink).

    E-mail does, in fact, use the resources of the recipient computer, not least of which is the downward ISP connection, for which recipient pays a monthly fee, and which has limits imposed.

    Still, it's pretty creative to say: "I printed it out. Now it's a fax. Pay!"

    So, if you think the decision will be upheld on appeal, you might as well start cashing in in advance: Change your spam redirect from /dev/null to your printer, and watch the money roll in. It's like printing currency!

    For more information, please send a self-addressed stamped envelope to the e-mail address in my profile, along with a check made out to my username in the amount of $3.99. This includes shipping.

    It's an informational brochure with no obligation. This guy is making it big. After a careful study of his case (IANAL), I've concluded that so can you.

    You'll never have to work again.

    Note: If you print this message you agree to opting in to my Slashdot Troll Service and may not sue me for junk faxing you. (If you don't print it it's not a fax).

    --
    I took some notes on our conversation, and then he sent me a fax. Do you want to see them?
    Just the fax, ma'am.

  15. Fax modem? by wcbarksdale · · Score: 2, Funny

    Suddenly there is a use for those things!

  16. I don't like spam either, but... by gcalvin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think the judge screwed up here, and this will likely be reversed on appeal. Even if you accept that Mark's computer qualifies as a "telephone facsimile machine" under the terms of this act, it's pretty tough to make the argument that what Sears did was "to send an unsolicited advertisement to a telephone facsimile machine". They sent an email message to an SMTP server, which stored it in Mark's mailbox. Using his fax modem to dial his ISP and retrieve the message was Mark's choice. Printing it out was Mark's choice. I'm very surprised that the Sears lawyers didn't slam-dunk this one.

    1. Re:I don't like spam either, but... by CaptainStormfield · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm very surprised that the Sears lawyers didn't slam-dunk this one.

      For $500, Sears probably figured that it was cheaper to pay than to litigate. It would cost that much to send a decent lawywer to the hearing. If you actually want the lawyer to go to the hearing prepared, the bill would be considerably larger.

      --
      "The dinosaurs died because they didn't have a space program." - Niven
    2. Re:I don't like spam either, but... by Fnkmaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nobody is going to appeal a small claims court decision. Small claims courts don't make binding precent, so there's no real reason to (500 dollars is approximately the cost of one lawyer-hour of time, thus it would be a very, very stupid business decision to do such a thing). Sometimes companies will appeal because the precedent of the decision is very damaging to their business - I don't think small claims courts have any real ability to form precedent, or to be cited as precedent anywhere else (maybe by the same small claims court judge). So why bother?

    3. Re:I don't like spam either, but... by spacefrog · · Score: 2, Informative

      INAL, but one of the voices in my head is..

      In most states, small-claims decisions can not be appealed. Period.

    4. Re:I don't like spam either, but... by EmagGeek · · Score: 2, Informative

      That, and the fact that lawyers are generally not allowed in small claims court (unless one of the litigants just happens to BE a lawyer, but "Sears & Roebuck" is not a lawyer).

  17. How is this on topic? by victim · · Score: 2, Informative

    This article is about a guy that used a punitive damage law to punish a spammer. Hardly and eye-for-an-eye. That would be spamming a spammer. See a slashdot article from a couple of months ago for that.

  18. Two entirely meaningless observations. by Apuleius · · Score: 4, Informative

    1. That Ralsky fellow, him what allegedly got millions by spamming, lives in Michigan. 2. So do many Slashdotters. Hmm....

    1. Re:Two entirely meaningless observations. by Apuleius · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you don't have the time, don't do it.
      If you do, first you need to get what information
      you can out of Spamhaus.org to identify those
      spams that are coming to you from Ralsky. Then
      you type up the papers and go to small claims.

  19. Be careful what you wish for, you may get it... by valdis · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here's my canned reply for these:

    I would like to see citations (especially case law) that specifically address your claim that 47 USC 227(a)(2)(B) is applicable in this case. In particular, such legal advice as I've seen states that this is *NOT* applicable to E-mail in general, and for this statute to be applicable, there would need to be a finding of fact that E-mail is legally a FAX. If E-mail *was* ruled to be legally fax, then you would have to comply with all the legal requirements that would entail.

    In particular, I suggest that you also read 47 USC 227(d)(1)(B),
    which states:

    (d) Technical and procedural standards
    (1) Prohibition
    It shall be unlawful for any person within the United States -
    (A) ....
    (B) to use a computer or other electronic device to send any
    message via a telephone facsimile machine unless such person
    clearly marks, in a margin at the top or bottom of each
    transmitted page of the message or on the first page of the
    transmission, the date and time it is sent and an
    identification of the business, other entity, or individual
    sending the message and the telephone number of the sending
    machine or of such business, other entity, or individual.

    Be careful what you ask for, you may get it....

    (Hint - was *your* e-mail stamped with the originating phone number at the top of each page? ;)

    1. Re:Be careful what you wish for, you may get it... by valdis · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No.. *EVERYBODY* is in trouble. The legal reasoning is along these lines:

      1) Junk Fax are a subset of all fax.

      2) To make spam e-mail legally a junk fax, you first have to rule that all e-mail are fax.

      3) Having done that, *all* e-mail is then bound by *ALL* the laws regarding FAX - including a *phone humber* at the top of *each page*. You don't get to pick-and-choose.

      This is pretty well understood in other legal fields - if you try to get around (for example) IRS regs by declaring yourself a non-profit, you get stuck with all the regs for non-profits....

    2. Re:Be careful what you wish for, you may get it... by DonkeyJimmy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ...(they must include) the telephone number of the sending machine or of such business...

      Actually, this seems like a good possible solution to the spam issues. If you were required to place in the header of an email some working contact info (like a real return email address that went to you) then perhaps that would help to deture spammers... I mean all the legitamate emails I receive have their return addresses on them.

      Getting them not to have a box that automatically deletes everything is more difficult. Of course, what's stopping the junk-fax places from getting a phone number and simply not answering it.

      --
      "Probably the toughest time in anyone's life is when you have to murder a loved one because they're the devil." -Philips
    3. Re:Be careful what you wish for, you may get it... by valdis · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just because an IP address is understood to be the internet equivalent of a phone number does *NOT* make it so in the legal sense.

      Again, *BE CAREFUL* here - for instance, there's laws against unattended phones re-dialing more than a certain number of times if there's no answer.

      If IP addresses were legally phone numbers, your mail system would probably be breaking the law every time it re-tried delivery of mail to a host that's down.

      It's this sort of "unintended consequence" that makes writing laws so difficult.

    4. Re:Be careful what you wish for, you may get it... by valdis · · Score: 2, Informative

      The problem is that 47 USC 227(a)(2) clauses (A) and (B) are basically legalistic wrapping saying "a fax machine is something that sends and receives faxes".

      If a fax machine is receiving something, the something being received is a fax.

      If you say that your comupter receiving e-mail is receiving a fax, then e-mail is a fax. Trying to claim otherwise blows your argument - if it's not a fax, then it isn't receivable as a fax transmission, and whether your computer is a fax machine is irrelevant (notice that making a *voice* call to a fax machine to sell things is totally legal, if useless....)

      The worst part is that in order to make it stick at all, you have to take a *very* lenient interpretation of "recieving a fax".

      For example - the spammer can *easily* wiggle out if he sends to your mail server rather than directly to your home computer - because the mail server doesn't "transcribe onto paper" as a normal integral part of receiving e-mail.

      And the legal argument is dead meat otherwise - focusing on the part where your computer with the printer downloads the mail is a non-starter, as that's not an "unsolicited" transmission. You called the ISP and asked to download the mail... ;)

      And by the time you stretch the definitions enough to make it stick, the camel has gotten a lot more than just his nose into the tent.

  20. All well and good BUT by Hao+Wu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What about faxs that come from Russia? When faxer pays Russian mob to look the other way? When police want to wheel and deal with George Bush instead of listen to him like they should (in order to take care of Russian crime with advice and recommendations)?

    Other countries may be so corrupt that their affairs are not in order. They can not deal with some problems effectively, which means that we may feel the pain for some time. Pricey faxes are only one of them.

    --
    I suggest you read Slashdot
  21. This is a troll post. *sigh* by SlashChick · · Score: 2, Offtopic

    This post is from the Slashdot Troll Archive.

    Here's the link to this particular post: Lex Talionis is a morally bankrupt code

    If you're going to troll, may I suggest The "Moon": A Ridiculous Liberal Myth? It's one of my personal favorites. :)

  22. Re:Lex Talionis is a morally bankrupt code by charon_on_acheron · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Ask yourself this: should we rape the rapist? If not, why not? "

    No, we shouldn't rape rapists. We should shoot them. Twice. Once in the crotch, let them suffer the pain and loss of manhood for a few minutes, then shoot them in the head. None of this rehabilitation crap.

  23. Contradictory interests by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
    ...we're about to blow open one of the biggest Slashdot contradictions there are.

    So. This guy successfully sued his local Sears branch for sending him a piece of Spam mail, for a total award of $539. The theory is that (being that Sears is a place you can sue), them sending it to his computer, means that the Sears store, wherever it is, is culpable for doing 'damage', 'irritation', or whatever, to his computer. Great, good for him.

    How do we apply this logic to things like copyright infringement over county, state, national, international borders?

    This is bullshit.

    The same people who are cheering this ruling, convinced it will slow down or stop spam, because those damned spammers will be liable for the shit they send will be the very same people screeching in horror because the **AAs are 'breaking into your computer' by browsing what's already there to find illegally traded files.

    Ladies and gentlemen, you can't have it both ways. Either computers exist on the internet, so they exist in all countries at once and are obligated to follow any law in any place someone decides to sue them with, or they're not. But I for one am sick and tired of reading what feels like opportunistic banner-waving: if it serves my interests, then that's what I want.

    Look at the bigger picture. Please.

    1. Re:Contradictory interests by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      *sigh* Yep. Responding to myself, and I still find it funny; my parent post has been modded down as flamebait.

      It is absolutely stunning to me that the two statements below are accepted as fact without debate, and when questioned, it's flamebait:

      1. I have the right to privacy, and to use the law to my advantage to see that people do not solicit me and use my computer in ways I do not approve of to advertise to me, as with 'spam'. I reserve the right to use any legal (sue Sears) and borderline illegal (harassment of Ralsky by putting him on snailmail mailing lists, prank calls, etc.) method at my disposal to stop the propogation of spam. I will gladly take any monetary damages awarded me for doing so.

      2. I have the implicit right to ignore copyright infringement laws, as currently written. Since it is a waste of time for me to write my congressman, lobby, or otherwise change minds in intelligent forum, I say fuck it, I want music, and there's not a damn thing the music industry can do about it. I refuse to respect currently written copyright infringement law, but I will also screech every time I see anyone arrested for as-written-illegal music trading. I further reserve the right to egotistically claim that this infringement IS legal, or that the industry has no right to prosecute me, because either the laws they want to use don't apply to the island of Vanatu (where Kazaa is), my state (as opposed to California) or, again, any other damned excuse I like.

      The anti-spam camp will use any means at its disposal to stop spam. Why are you surprised that the record and movie industries will use any means at their disposal (legal and only grayly-legal) to stop copyright infringement?

      This is not flamebait. This is the truth.

  24. Re:Surprising... by zorglubxx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Bandwidth doesnt cost money ??

    It does when:

    - you get your email via GPRS and you are paying for every single byte transferred.

    - when you are dialing up to the Internet via a modem and you pay phone charges (in Europe there is no flat fee local calls).

    Spam IS expensive wether you want to believe it or not, and I'm not getting into the whole "wasting time sorting it out" and "time is money".

  25. Michiganian? by bahwi · · Score: 2, Funny

    Can't we all just accept the fact that we are all Earthikans and live in peace?

    Vote Nixon in 3000!

    (it's a Futurama joke)

  26. you're Michiganians by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Over 10 years ago (back when I still lived in Michigan), a resolution was adopted by the state legislature that formally dubs residents of Michigan Michiganians.

    Yeah, it's a stupid monkier and no one follows it, but it could be worse. The 2nd choice was "Michiganeers".

    The person who spearheaded the legislation found being called a duck insulting.

  27. In first read by Soul-Burn666 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I read it as:
    "meshugener(1) beats spammer!"
    Ahhh.... violence that everyone agrees to....

    (1) madman in yidish

    --
    ^_^
  28. You're gravely misunderstanding the principle. by rjh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Lex talionis is not, and never has been, "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life". Lex talionis is a view towards law that treats justice as interchangeable with retribution. If someone puts out your eye, then go over and slaughter the sonufabitch--that's lex talionis in a nutshell. What the lex talionis codes did was codify this pre-existing principle and give it color of law.

    On the other hand, Hebrew law has not been viewed as proscriptive, but rather prohibitive. Instead of saying "retribution is justice", the Hebrew scriptures actually put limits on the government's ability to authorize retribution--you were forbidden from exacting vengeance past the wrong done to you. If someone put out my eye, I wasn't allowed to put their entire family to the sword.

    "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life" is, like much of the Old Testament, usually read with absolutely no clue about the context in which it was written. Look at the Code of Hammurabi, which is another legal code from roughly the same period in antiquity. The Code can be summed up as "if you transgress these laws in any way, you're going to get killed. Or if your transgression was really minor, just permanently maimed." That was a helluva system of laws, let me tell you. That's all it was: a system of laws. There was no concept of justice at that time, just pure, unadulterated law, and if you broke it, you died.

    Then along come the Jews and their principle of "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life"... and this system of laws was hailed as moral, merciful, and just. Why? Because it established limits on what the government could mete out for punishment.

    So the next time you feel like condemning Hebrew law ("an eye for an eye") as a "morally bankrupt code", please consider the other options available at the time. And also consider that you're completely misunderstanding what the entire point of the Hebrew "an eye for an eye" instruction was and is.

    It was, believe it or not, perhaps the first time in human history that someone put limits on the power of government and established that there were moral limits to governmental power. As such, it deserves our respect.

    1. Re:You're gravely misunderstanding the principle. by cicadia · · Score: 2, Informative
      So the next time you feel like condemning Hebrew law ("an eye for an eye") as a "morally bankrupt code", please consider the other options available at the time.

      Um... actually the idea of 'an eye for an eye' and 'a tooth for a tooth' was pretty much taken straight out of the Code of Hammurabi.

      Check out paragraphs 196 and 200, specifically.

      The Code of Hammurabi is the oldest known written legal code, older than the Hebrew law which you are attempting to contrast it with, and is considered to be the inspiration for most legal codes which followed it.

      The Jews didn't invent the principle, they inherited it from the Babylonians.

      --
      Living better through chemicals
  29. Brothers, too early to celebrate. by airrage · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Gentlemen,

    While this small victory is somewhat nice, it is quite too early to celebrate. It's a simple algorithm: take the number of emails produced by a spam-king, multiply by the number of possible suckers (gross profit), subtract the $500 per infraction of those willing to take the time and effort (net profit), and the result is well a very, very large pot minus a few pennies.

    I would suggest taking a drug that fixes the infection rather than the symptoms. But I could be wrong.

    Peace out

    --
    "This isn't a study in computer science, its a study in human behavior"
  30. Don't get my hopes up by avij · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was hoping to see a title like "Michiganian Beats Spammer With A Baseball Bat". THAT would have been more to my taste.

    --

    Follow your Euro bills at EBT
  31. Small claims court judges are undpredicatble. by btempleton · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Some will say the TCPA applies to fax, some will not. Most will not -- most don't even know much about it, let alone have a willingless to stretch it to define an E-mail as a Fax.

    Sadly the TCPA is fairly toothless. Yes, you can sue for $500 and you might win. I have done so myself, and collected. But after spending several hours of work, and the average amount of time spent per successful collection is normally high enough that it's not worth your trouble.

    Some small claims judges think you can't sue somebody out of state, some thing you can. Even on spam laws where there isn't the TCPA question.

    There is a valid question of whether you should be able to sue somebody out of state in small claims court for $500. Think about it -- it costs $500 at least to come and defend yourself in an out of state case, so how can you win, even if you are totally innocent?

    How would you feel if you -- not a junk faxer at all -- got a summons to appear in court on the other side of the country to face a $500 payment for junk faxing? You could go and defend yourself, but it would cost you way more than $500 in costs, don't even talk about your time. You can't send a lawyer, if somehow that would save money.

    So it's tough to figure out how to allow this. And spammers and junk faxers are rarely local, though sometimes they are.

    What if you took the risk that if you sued an out of state spammer, you would have to pay his expenses to come out if you lost, or take them out of your winnings if you won? I would not.

    --
    Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
  32. Pool all the money together... by Rai · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...and start an organization that gathers the email/snail mail addresses of spammers and signs them up for every junk mail publication known to man.

  33. The Bad News by scott__ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    IANAL but I believe that the reason he was able to sue Sears in small claims court was the fact that Sears was doing business in the same state.

    If the party you are sueing is out of state, you have to take the matter to district court. The filing fee is usually only a little more, but if you don't win your case, you can expect to be held accountable for the spammers attorney fees.

    --
    -Scott scott@surrealistic.org
  34. finding those responsible by LuxFX · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What I find most interesting about this is not the use of the junk fax law, but that Mark was able to sue Sears about it. This is something I've been wondering lately anyway: even if it might be next to impossible to track down the sender of a spam email, could you not still hold the company whose products are being advertised responsible for the spam?

    IANAL, but I don't find it a fair stretch to say that, possibly even in a legal sense, the spammer was respresenting the company. The same can extrapolated to cover owners of websites, etc. -- any person, company or service that is the subject of the spam.

    I was doubtful of this until now -- it seems like Mark pulled it off!

    So then, why we don't stop trying to stop spammers, and go after the source? By attacking those that fund the spammers the spammers will still go down, and the targets are easier to find.

    --
    Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
    1. Re:finding those responsible by taustin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What I find most interesting about this is not the use of the junk fax law, but that Mark was able to sue Sears about it.

      This is possible under the federal anti-fax spam. Hooters was fined over a million bucks for a fax spam run by a marketing company that went out of business before the complaint was files.

      If the company actually being advertised is aware of the ads, they are responsible under the fax spam law.

  35. Re:Modems and broadband by a7244270 · · Score: 2, Informative

    read the law.

    Section 227.b.1

    Prohibitions
    It shall be unlawful for any person within the United States -- to use any telephone facsimile machine, computer, or other device to send an unsolicited advertisement to a telephone facsimile machine;

    Doesn't say anything about the fax having to come over a phone line, just that it has to go to a telephone facsimile machine.

    Looks like cable modem users can sue. Luckily I have about 10k spams saved, I'm sure I can find some for local florida companies, then I'll go buy myself a faxmodem !

  36. Modify the device until the law applies by jetmarc · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Amazing, he did the right thing. He modified his computer until it fell under the fax machine law. He uses a modem to connect over telephone lines (not cable, not dsl). He prints his email to paper, and he has fax software installed to send scanned paper documents to other fax machines. So his equipment can be considered a fax machine.

    We saw a similar thing recently, with Lexmark. Everybody can produce a plastic box that fits into Lexmark printers, and nothing can stop them from doing so. Except Lexmark & the DMCA - Lexmark found that they have to mix the plastic box (which is not protected by law) with an intellectual property item (which is protected by copyright) and an access restriction (which is protected by DMCA). Glue all 3 things together, and voila. You've got a plastic box which can not be legally copied.

    So, when the law works AGAINST us consumers so often, why shouldn't it work FOR us once or twice?

  37. Re:Lex Talionis is a morally bankrupt code by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Lex Talionis, the principle of an eye for an eye, is a morally bankrupt code of law we've been moving away from for the past few thousand years, thankfully.

    Wrong. Lex Talionis was the principle that you take NO MORE than an eye for an eye - promulgated as an "improvement" in an era where the response to losing an eye (or a purse) might be to do in the alleged perpetrator and confiscate all his worldly goods.

    It's morally bankrupt, all right. But only to the extent that if the theif only loses what he stole, and has a nonzero chance of getting away with it, thevery remains a profitmaking enterprise despite full enforcement of the law. So it becomes an endorsement of theft as a lifestyle. This is why there are "puntitive damages" - extra penalties to punish the perpetrator (thus making continued misbehavior a losing proposition even in with imperfect law enforcement).

    None of which applies here. Applying "Lex Talionis" to the spammer would mean spamming him, rather than seeking compensatory and puntitive damages.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  38. Re:Surprising... by chiguy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Said it once, said it a thousand times:

    Unsolicited-fax law is based on theft of resources: you use my paper and my ink to print your "speech". This costs me the money that it should cost you [you should have to print it and send me a flier in the mail where you pay postage too]. So "we" made it illegal.

    It is not a major logical hurdle to show the similarities of fax-spam with e-spam.

    1) ISP bandwidth costs money. ISP's have to pay for enough bandwidth to handle their customers' traffic. If they had less spam coming into their network, then they would have lower bandwidth needs and could charge customers less. [You may not pay metered bandwidth charges, but your ISP probably does, and those charges ARE passed on to you and ARE built in to your flat rate]

    2) Space costs money. A similar argument to bandwidth can be made for space. In addition, more people are metered by their space. Many ISP's provide a limited amount of space for email storage and additional space does cost money. Also, go off on vacation for a week and what happens when your inbox gets filled up? What's the cost of having all your legitimate emails bounce because spam used all your space?

    When you consider the numbers (a recent article said 70% of email volume to hotmail is spam), it's plain to see the costs are not small.

    Despite your narrow interpretation of what constitutes "cost", anyone who has taken a high school economics course knows that there is no free lunch. Someone is paying for the spam to reach you. And odds are that it's coming out of YOUR pocket, not the spammers'.

    --
    passetspike!
  39. Contract? by jcr · · Score: 4, Informative

    Asking you to sign a contract when they lost in court, is pretty goddamned sleazy. I'd suggest you send a copy of that to the court, and ask the court to bitch-slap Sears and their law firm for that.

    You don't have to enter into any kind of agreement with someone who owes you money pursuant to a judgement in order to collect what they owe you.

    BTW, Sears has a long history of sleazy shyster tricks. Look up what they did to the inventor of the socket wrench sometime. When I want tools, I go to snap-on.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    1. Re:Contract? by Patrick13 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Asking you to sign a contract when they lost in court, is pretty goddamned sleazy

      Well, since it probably cost them $100 to have their in-house law department tell them it would cost them a couple thousand dollars to defend themselves in small claims court, management said "Dammit, isn't there something we can do?", and their lawyer said, "Well... we could try to get him to sign this waiver...."

      Seriously I once lost a Sears card without realizing it, and the next month someone had gone to the local Sears and charged it up to the $3000 credit limit. I had no idea what had happened until the monthly statement arrived and said that I had spent $2999.69 during the last cycle.

      6 months later they were still hassling me, had me sign my signature literally 100 times and finally I just told them that I was going to countersue them, because their staff had allowed someone to make fraudulent purchases.

      Basically their clerks told them what my credit limit was, and judging from the signature it was a woman's handwriting so they allowed someone without ID and the opposite gender use my credit card, and engage in extremely suspicious activity: go on a spending spree that included the purchase of 4(!) VCRS, all from the same Sears location on the same day, in sequential purchases.

      I basically told their fraud guy - yeah it was stupid of me to lose my credit card in a parking lot without realizing it, but how the fsck do you explain that your clerks never for a moment tried to verify that the person making these highly suspicious purchases was allowed to go on until they reached within 31 cents of my credit limit...

      This happened 8 years ago, and still pisses me off. I haven't ever done business with Sears again, by the way.

      --
      ::.. check out some Cell Phone Reviews
    2. Re:Contract? by jcr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's not illegal to ask someone to sign a contract

      In this circumstance, it could be construed as an attempt at intimidation, or even outright fraud. They were out of line to ask for it, and the plaintif should ask the judge to tell them so, hopefully at considerable expense and inconvenience.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  40. Texon? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Funny
    Update: 02/25 00:30 GMT by T: OK, so it's Michigander, not Michiganian. Too long as a Texon, Marylandite and Tennesseenaut.

    I think you mean a Texan. A Texon would be, like, the quantum unit of Texases.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  41. Sears can spam me by spooky_nerd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I really don't care if a big company like Sears spams me, as long as they aren't abusive and maintain a "do not mail" list. What I hate (and I think everyone else hates too) are the fly-by-night overseas operations. Every week I get: Enlarge your penis! Enlarge your breasts! Make money fast! Sueing Sears does nothing to prevent this. The odd thing is though - it only happens on my hotmail account. All my other email accounts are 99% spam free.

  42. Great, now I'll get spam saying... by jlleblanc · · Score: 2, Funny

    Hunt down spammers for fun and PROFIT!!!

  43. To wit.... by dacarr · · Score: 2, Informative
    Note, IANAL.

    Many states will not honor small claims suits if it can be determined that the venue is improper. In California, you can go after somebody if you have a REALLY good reason outside of state lines.

    It's why that pet supplies guy can't legally sue somebody outside of his area. You file an improper venue plea and they effectively dismiss the case with prejudice.

    --
    This sig no verb.
  44. people of place names by falsification · · Score: 2, Interesting
    For a while now, it's been my hobby to collect "people of place names", or at least the obscure ones. It's somewhat non-trivial to find them. Here's my current list. Corrections are appreciated. TIA.

    Aberdeen, Scotland -- Aberdonians
    Afghanistan -- Afghans
    Alabama -- Alabamians, Alabamans
    Allentown -- Allentonians
    Argentina -- Argentines
    Arkansas -- Arkansan, Arkansawyer (NW Arkansas only)
    Arizona -- Arizonans
    Austin -- Austinites
    Bahamas -- Bahamian
    Boston -- Bostonians
    Camden -- Camdenites
    Cincinnati -- Cincinnatians
    Colorado -- Coloradans
    Delaware -- Delawarians
    Florida -- Floridians
    Ghana -- Ghanaians
    Gibraltar -- Gibraltarians
    Greece -- Greeks
    Houston -- Houstonians
    Illinois -- Illinoisans
    Indiana -- Hoosiers
    Key West -- Conchs
    Los Angeles -- Angelenos, Los Angelenos
    Louisiana -- Louisianans
    Madagascar - Madagascans
    Maine -- Mainers
    Maryland -- Marylanders
    Miami -- Miamians
    Michigan -- Michiganders
    Naples -- Neapolitans
    New Jersey -- New Jerseyans
    Ohio -- Ohioans
    Oregon -- Oregonians
    Phoenix -- Phoenicians
    San Antonio -- San Antonians
    San Francisco -- San Franciscans
    Seattle -- Seattleites
    Sierra Leone -- Sierra Leoneans
    Singapore -- Singaporeans
    St Louis -- St. Louisans
    Switzerland -- Swiss
    Tennessee -- Tennesseans
    Texas -- Texans
    Turkey -- Turks
    Twin Cities -- Twin Citians
    Utah -- Utahans
    Wichita -- Wichitans

  45. Why is this guy printing out spam? by geekee · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "I received this email using a dial up phone line connection and printed the message."

    It seems to me the junk FAX doesn't apply unless you automatically print out all your e-mail. Otherwise, you're not using paper and ink for an unsolicited ad. Voluntarily printing out an e-mail just to take the spammer to court sounds like it oversteps the bounds of the law since at this point you chose to use the printer, not the spammer. I'm surprised any judge would convict. It probably will be overturned if it becoomes a big problem for spammers. People have been trying unsuccessfully to use the junk FAX laws to prosecute spammers for years now.

    --
    Vote for Pedro
  46. Law doesn't work for me by anon*127.0.0.1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm on broadband, my PC doesn't even have a modem in it. Even if I dropped a cheap fax modem in, the spam still doesn't *arrive* by phone line, so this law doesn't apply.

    --
    I am NOT a man!
    I am a free number!
  47. law! by MacAndrew · · Score: 2, Informative

    Jurisdiction and venue are both easier and harder than you paint them. There are entire law courses on things like jurisdiction.

    Then there is subject matter jurisdiction versus personal jurisdiction, and the constitutional limits on jurisdiction versus the prudential rules of venue. If you're going to small claims court you hardly have to worry about all that. The pivotal issue is fairness. Sears was "present" locally, both because they had a store and because they inflicted an injury on the plaintiff in his home jurisdiction (imagine they'd sent him a bomb -- no one would quibble that it was "unfair" to drag Sears to the plaintiff, and the prosecutor). The small claims court has subject matter jurisdiction under the federal junk fax law, meaning they were the right place to hear this sort of case. And so on.

    The bomb example is a little unsubtle, but an illegal email is just a milder example of the same sort of civil wrong. It would be quite unfair to force the plaintiff to go to whatever rock the defendant was lurking under to litigate a $500 claim.

    If you really want to bend you mind, sometimes a place is appropriate for the lawsuit to be heard, but the law of another jurisdiction is applied (choice of law). Then you may find yourself applying a mix of local procedural law and foreign substantive law.

  48. technical fantasy by MacAndrew · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I really wish I could agree with you, that there is a tech solution to spam. But I refuse to believe that spammers can't in time outsmart a dumb filter. The filters performs very well now -- I use one -- but how long will that last? Few people are blocking spam at all, but when they do the spammers, like the Borg, will adapt.

    Moreover, the mere transmission of spam is causing harm. It clogs the arteries of the Internet. The ISP's despise it, and spend money fighting it -- my money. Finally, even though I have broadband it takes significant time for me to download those extra 20 messages. Thanks to some idiot out there who typed in my email as his, I've seen geometric growth in spam lately, from maybe 10% to 60% of incoming material.

    It is often argued that if you make something illegal people will just break the law, but that proves too much --- the same argument would supposedly undermine every law. Making it illegal will scare off the legit or semilegit bulk emailers, and it will make the shadiest spammer tempting targets for the prosecutors who has much better investigatory abilities than we do. I've talked to one of these guys, an assistant attorney general in Washington state, and was impressed how much work it took them to pin down one spammer. The state spam law was the hook they used to snare him, then they could also be sure to put him out of business. Believe it or not, there are smart people working for government, and in that case they even hired some outside help, PI's to track the guy down (he was quite slippery).

    I don't like the idea that the defense to burglars is better locks, and I'm willing to ask for the government's help on this one.

  49. Use Fax-to-Email services to invoke protection by Fiery · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If email sent to a given address is carbon copied at your end to an Email->Fax gateway, then their spam emails are indeed being sent to a Fax machine and are protected by the law.

    The trick is to redirect messages that seem to be spam; you'll get the occasional false positive, which is totally fine; at the end of the day, you shred the positives and pick a spam to write up a small claim about.

    Hell, you could profit off of this, with the quantity of spam that's out there. Make a living off of receiving spam, perhaps.

    If it was accepted as a valid use of the law, that'd destroy the spammers pretty quickly, with the effort of Slashdot behind those fax machines.

    Imagine the force of Slashdot behind an initiative to print out and submit a small claim for at least one spam a day, per user. Thousands of claims would be filed in a single day against the same small set of companies. Some spam companies pull you off their list if you bring legal action against them, so a few hundred Slashdot users stop getting spammed by someone.

    Repeat this daily for a month; you can also file multiple suits per day, if you have time. The sky's the limit (and your 100% recycled printer paper). Make some friends at the court; people will consider you a superhero if you help shut down spamming as a profitable enterprise.

    I hope this case is validated; if so, there's ways to make people listen. Perhaps file a thousand small claims in a thousand courts on a single day, providing attached to the claim a list of all thousand courts. Send a press release to the major papers (and the local papers), tv & radio at 12pm after the filings, and see what happens.

    The way to end spam is to make it unprofitable.

  50. Re:But I don't speak korean... by jelle · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I don't need to do all that stuff and kill off aol,hotmail users, just install spamasassin version 2.x or newer (apt-get), and put this in your .procmailrc (assuming you retrieve mail with fetchmail or get it in on smtp):

    :0fw
    | spamassassin -P

    :0:
    * ^X-Spam-Status: Yes
    mail/caughtspam



    All done, the spam gets filtered into the caughtspam mail folder no more spam (1 spam per month gets through, 10-25 per day get filtered). For some "spam" that I'm asking for (yes I opted in on some commercial mailing lists such as travelocity), I just add them as a 'whitelist_from' in the ~/.spamassassin/user_prefs

    --
    --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
  51. Sears didn't argue or appeal. He won by default. by d23 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If a spammer would've shown up in small claims court or if they would've appealled, then it would've been a true test of whether the junk fax law can be used to stop spam.
    As it is, it can still be a deterrent if 10000 unemployed dot commers file suit similtaneously, it'll be like spamming the spammers.