Slashdot Mirror
CAPPS II Trials Begin in March
corporal_clegg writes "According to this story on FoxNews, in March Delta Airlines will begin using a federal database that incorporates credit history and bank records in an effort to identify potential security threats. The federal system - CAPPS II (Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System) - will assign a "threat level" to passengers based upon information in the database and other criteria, such as whether the individual is on government watch lists. 'CAPPS II will collect data and rate each passenger's risk potential according to a three-color system: green, yellow, red. When travelers check in, their names will be punched into the system and the boarding passes encrypted with the ranking.' The scary thing is that no one really knows which databases the government will use or how long the records will remain. Slashdot covered this story in September 2002, and it now seems that the first airline is ready to give it a try. In addition to the links in the previous Slashdot article, a good background on CAPPS II can be found here." Actually, the last story we did on passenger profiling was just a week or two ago.
Contrary to popular rumour, millions of dollars have been let in contracts to do the groundwork for TIA. Any USC students out there? Did you know your alma mater is going to help build the surveillance state known as the USA? TIA lives
CAPPS II will collect data and rate each passenger's risk potential
//begin code snippet
if(PassengerEthnicity()=='arab')
{
InitiateSearch();
SetThreatLevel(doom);
};
filter: +3. Hey, look! all the trolls went away!
.... incorporates credit history and bank records in an effort to identify potential security threats.
Oh thats right....poor people are all terrorists.
Just remember if you bounce a check then the terrorists have already won.
ThunderBird. Nuff said.
A couple weeks ago, Congress decided that the Total Information Awareness program could not operate against US citizens.
Today? We are getting a "security" implementation that(purportedly) keeps the information it collects for 50 years. This has been disputed, by the Transportation Department, but it appeared in print, and the retraction was not.
Sad, sad.
Black and grey are both shades of white.
The scary thing about this is:
- We don't know what airports this is going to be run at.
- We don't know what databases are going to be used
- What if some of the information is erroneous? How can we correct our own "profile"?
- Lastly...what does my credit check have to do with whether or not I'm going to blow up a plane?
And then they wonder why almost every single airline in the United States is at or near bankruptcy.
"Killing America in the Name of Security"
If it were really about airline security, they would make a special strip search screening line. So you go through into a little room, they completely search you, not necessarily a strip search but completely search you and your carry on luggage, and let you go. Really, I don't think the government has any right to even know your name. You should be able to fly where ever you want, when ever you want, without being tracked. As long as you pass the security screening before you get onto the plane, what the fuck right does the government have to know anything else about you?
Where is the NYT registration required link??
At least edit out the fox news link; it offends us left-wing folks.
that because of this thing...we should boycott!
:(
nevermind that boycotting wouldn't change our behavior...we haven't travelled in 10 years.
if Oprah reads Slashdot, maybe she'll take pitty on my story and pay for us to go to Hawaii??
Don't they realize that anything that is publicized is now what a terrorist will most definately avoid? If they are looking for good credit and a history of large amounts of money moving through a bank account or vice versa, then a potential threat, i.e terrorist, will most definately change their habits to remain undetectible. These are not stupid people. If I know what steps an airline is taking to detect whether or not I am a threat, so does EVERYONE else. I know many of you will say that this information is made public so that I know what freedoms are being taken from me and I say that either scenerio is a bad idea. Leave my credit history and bank account information alone and find another way to detect terrorists without telling me how you are going to do it, just don't invade my privacy.
Ok, so I need a Biannual Flight Review to go flying, but after that I think I'll work on the instrument rating. Every time I see the US whittle away at our privacy under the guise of national security it frightens me. The constitution is in tatters and I think I'll just fly myself.
I know that if you erode someones quality of life enough they may come to the point where their life is worth so little they see it as a small price to pay to make a political statement. People who value their life, and feel they can make a contribution in another way dont blow themselves up.
But how does the fact that I've missed three car payments tell anyone anything about me.
The terrorists appear to be winning, one little piece (of my civil liberties) at a time.
"The scary thing is that no one really knows which databases the government will use or how long the records will remain."
Can you say "all of them" and "forever" in one sentence Johnny? I can.
if you haven't done anything, then what do you have to worry about? This kind of profiling will never fly w/the ACLU and the like, though.
Monitoring bank and credit reports will flag questionable purchases like, oh, let's say, 2 tons of fertilizer and a Ryder truck. But what about the ones who don't exhibit that kind of behavior? Credit reports and bank activity aren't going to prevent a hijacker alone, in my opinion.
So we shall soon expect to see the less affluent citizens of this nation prohibited from travelling by airplane? There is simply no way in which the algorithm they use to determine risk could be flawless, and in such a matter, even one false-positive is too much. I always heard jurists refer to the slippery slope, and I had to wonder whether it was true. In the last five years og litigation, there have been an inconceivable number of unconstitutional or unjust laws proposed, and an even more amazing number of them have been passed. We shall finally see whether the slippery slope exists. I sincerely hope that we can return even a small measure of the freedom that this republic is supposed to represent, but I fear that it shall continue only to get worse.
I fear that things will degenerate so greatly, that nothing short of armed insurrection will return it to the path of its founders' intent. I fear that day, because if force becomes necessary, then it is already too late.
Pax Digitalia
Just because you're poor doesn't mean you have a bad credit rating.
But that doesn't even matter - I think instead what this system will be looking for is a person not with good credit, or even bad credit, but very little credit history... that's the kind of person that will make "them" wonder what they are up to.
So what you should really be railing against is that people who aren't good consumers (in that they make use of credit and thus build up a record) will be hassled.
Personally, I'm not sure about this either way... in some ways I like it if it means fewer obviously random and stupid searches like they do now. That might only be because I expect to be targeted for searches less as a result.
A funny side note - I recently took a one-way flight and my girlfriend and I were fully searched multiple times. However, if you think about it - people that purchase one way tickets a few days in advance are probably the last ones to worry about!! Instead, I say, be concerned about the passenger that supposedly has it "so together" that they purchased tickets (round trip or otherwise) months in advance... after all, a real terrorist is not going to leave it to chance that he can get a flight on a certain plane a few days in advance.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Before I can decide whether or not I like this I need to know one thing...
are they using Postgres or MySQL??
anyone who doesn't want a national identity card has something to hide.
I mean, other than cars, that is. What about train stations? Do they have screening policies that are nearly as strict? Hell, I'd be happy to extend my travel time by a day or more, just so I don't need to worry about having my name run through any number of databases in the vain hopes of finding something and appeasing the herd/masses of their security concerns.
My wife and I both predict that within 10 years (most likely less) it will be required to carry "papers" while you travel, even in your car, not just on a plane or some such. Interstate travel will start to be as arduous as international travel. It's quite sickening, actually...
...I've got crappy credit, and I'm buying a one-way ticket to Vegas at the last minute with cash to go have a weekend with some blackjack dealer I met who was vacationing near me? (hey, it COULD happen!)
So...I get flagged red. Now what, they won't let me board? No free peanuts? What exactly will this do TO me (not FOR me, I think we already know that answer).
Chaos, panic, disorder...my work here is done.
We can keep the current system in place with searches and questions for (hopefully) the minority of travellers who would't have an id. If you can take the time to get a driver's license once every couple years, you can take the time to get a background check too.
"Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out."
Our way of life, sir? Your way of life may involve sacrificing the ideals of this nation for temporary safety, but mine does not. I would sooner die than see this nation become a police state, and nothing short of that will succeed in preventing violence 100 per cent of the time. If the artificers of this nation had intended for security to come before freedom, then they would not have imposed any restrictions on the courts.
Pax Digitalia
This reminds me of a case where two blue haired 70 year old grandmothers were busted for driving around a with several hundred pound of hash. They'd been doing it for 2 years and had never been searched before.
Seems a drug dealer was able to work out that cops generally didn't search old ladies for drugs. They don't fit the profile.
I'm sure a terrorist couldn't exploit such an obvious flaw.
Of course it will be much harder to find a suitable person to slip through this system . And even if they did, they would pay them in a manner that was obvious to law enforcement.
We all know its about making people feel happy that somethings being done, even if it doesnt make a real difference, costs alot of money and discriminates against some other group.
Don't ask yourself "Is this system (or proposed law) fair for me?", ask yourself "Is this system (or proposed law) fair for EVERY one?"
In case you didn't catch it ...
All passengers will be considered a threat.
- I have a beard.
- I am mistakenly listed as a vegitarian on BA.
- I carry lots of hardware when I travel.
- I am a smart ass towards people who ask stupid questions (most security/airline employees).
But seriously, I have already written to the congressmen and senators I helped put in office. If they vote for this they will no longer receive a vote from me.
Enjoy,
It's just the normal noises in here.
Why should US citizens submit to background checks before traveling by air? If security is a concern they should check your luggage. Unless I present a clear and present threat to airline safety the government has no right to restrict my travels.
I can only imagine what it would take to trigger an alert: Did you buy "the Anarchist's Cookbook" out of morbid curiosity? You are now a suspect! Have you ever participated in public protest against government policies? You are now a suspect! We have now entered the age of the Thought Crime: you are a threat not based on what you're carrying with you at the moment, you are a threat based on your beliefs and the things you've done in the past.
Seat 23C spends $250 a month on burritos! Look at the SIZE of him! Sweet Jesus, he's GASSY! EVACUATE THE PLANE!
He's fallen asleep, of course, so they send hostage negotiators on to try and get the people in 23A and 23B off the plane alive.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
Woo, this is actually good for me. Well will be in a few months, should it happen in all airports and air companies. Mainly because in a few months I will have been in my current job for over 2 years and be over 26 and same address for over 3 years. Which for credit scores increases my score alot. Then checkin/out people won't hopefully jump me on. Atm with all the concerns I fall into the worst category. I nearly always travel single, long distance, with nothing more than a hand luggage and dressed in casuals. So I'm first through passport control only to get stopped over and over by people. Who as soon as they check my records, say 'oh you are a regular carry on, this usually is just after they have unpacked my rucksack.
--+> Life, is there any?
This is so stupid. Everyone bitches when the 80 year old grandma gets searched, but random is the best.
If there is any "methodology" at all to doing this profiling there is a danger that you would just probe the system till you discover the "right" person to send through.
Keep sending through different kinds off people until you know who you can send that would never get checked.
Random is the way to go.
Will musical taste be part of one's profile? What if it makes a political statement? Where does it end?
Many of the same musics are bought and sold by all kinds of people. White people listen to black music. Black people listen to white gospel. All-americans listen to Rage Against Machine, which is also praised by degenerates and drug dealers. I listen to Michael Jackson, and people ask if I am a pedophile! I like to hear Thriller and a little disco beat, and that means I like young boys and should be locked away with degenerates and drug dealers?! I was scared just to play my music too loud in the dorms when people said the music was uncool. Now I have to worry about being a criminal for playing Michael Jackson. I also love Bruce Springsteen. "Born in the USA" is my favorite song! I am a huge patriot and I love this country more than any other stupid country, but now if I don't love Bruce Springsteen so much you'll say I might not be much of a patriot anymore. I will never stop loving my music, but I want people to know that this profile business is dangerous stuff. I don't mean Dangerous sung by Wacko Jacko, I mean as in "rights are becoming endangered".
I suggest you read Slashdot
... how a phrase such as "such as whether the individual is on government watch lists" doesn't scare the hell out of every single person in the US.
Perhaps there's a reason public education sucks so badly besides governmental stupidity... perhaps it's governmental genious to get all these fucking idiots to think crap like this is actually good. To me it's absolutely astonishing that a lot of people think protesting should be outright illegal.. do they not comprehend what that means?! This kind of crap almost makes me want to cry, and thanks to the US's ability to influence most every other country with either wads of money or military power there is no escape... "Brave New World" wasn't a fictional book, it was a god damn prophecy.
This is just so damn scary... I've had a gun put to my head by a nervous wreck of a thief, and I am still more scared about our current political climate than I was about that...
Just searched, really carefully, three or four times. That's why it will meet with little complaint in the end - because almost no-one will ever be stopped from getting on, just go through a lot of annoying searches (you and your luggage), only fewer annoying searches for the general passengger because of the targeting. I've been through it myself and it sucks (the one way flight I mentioned), but if it really does lead to the reduction in stupid searches than I think I'm for it.
Note that questioning an item on your redit report (which I have done a number of times, even in the last few months) should NEVER clear out your credit history, even the thing you are questioning - it should only add notes or correct data. If that happened then you have a very serious problem indeed (a lot more serious than being searched to get on a plane) and you should seek to get that rectified (assuming you are not better off with a cleared credit report!!).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
George Orwell would love todays goverment, he could write a book like 1984 and not even have to come up with anything new...
I would like to see exactly what constitutes for labeling someone yellow or red in these systems... how does the goverment weight different facts while doing this assesment.. and I dont meen they look at your background blah blah blah... I would like to see the algorythme they use.
Selling software wont make you money, selling a service will.
For the most part now I'd rather drive to wherever I'm going then take an intra-continental flight. Security is so insane there, it's not even funny. just the other day a Canadian citizen was sent to India because INS officials thought (for some reason) her passport was invalid.
Not that any of this stuff is even necessary to prevent hijacking (just lock the cabin door, and have passengers fight back), or bombing (use bomb detectors!). Simple, obvious things like that are the way to prevent 9/11 type disasters, not creepy big-brother bullshit.
Its nothing more then a power-grab by totalitarians.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
And this would be why my users look at me like I am a fascist dictator when I ask them to use passwords! ;-)
:-( --- argh. Despair, I owe again.
Do you really think Al-Quada wouldn't stick bombs on a little kid if they thought it would have a better chance of getting through?
Whenever you focus your attention on one catagory of people, you make it easier then it could be for another group. All the terrorists have to do is fly their members around a lot, and see who gets checked most often. The ones that don't, carry the bombs and stuff.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
No, if you're the terrorist, you're going to put it on the Visa you stole out of that creditcard database you hacked.
So some other poor schmuck who actually OWNED said Visa gets Guantanamo Bay, while YOU can go right onboard, sir.
Do you really think Al-Quada wouldn't strap bombs on a 5 year old if they thought they would have a better chance of getting through?
Any time you focus more resources on one group, you have less on another. There's no getting around that. All the terrorists need to do is send their agents on lots of flights to see which ones get checked least often, and use them to carry the weapons/bombs.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
My "way of life" isn't the sort of cowardice that gives up privacy in the interests of security. I don't give my phone number to the good folks at Radio Shack. I don't let the police in to my home without a legitimate warrant. Giving up something so personal as my banking records is so entirely contrary to my way of life that I can find no conceivable grounds that your statement should apply.
Applaud? Of course not. I never applaud those that rob me. To "protect" my way of life by not allowing me to live it?
I consider this effort not only ill-considered with regard to its likely effectiveness and potential for harm to 3rd parties, but additionally for its disregard for the rights of those affected.
who would be a poor man, a beggar man a thief?
if he had the rich man at his hand
and who would steal the candy from the laughing babies mouth
if he could take it from the money man
cross-eyed mary, goes jumping in again
she signs no contract, but she always plays the game
she dines in hampton village, on expense accounted gruel
and the jack-knife barber, drops her off at school
laughing in the playground, she gets no kisses from little boys
she would rather make it with a letching grey
or maybe her attention is drawn by Aqualung
who watches through the railings as they play
hey!
cross-eyed mary finds it hard to get alone
she's a poor man's rich girl, and she'll do it for a song
she's a rich man's stealer, but her faith is good and strong
she's the robin hood of packing, let the poor man get along
[ridiculous flute solo with ian anderson's faggy voice occasionally filled in]
Voooooooooooooooooo!
[guitar solo]
laughing in the playground, she gets no kisses from little boys
she would rather make it with a letching grey
or maybe her attention is drawn by Aqualung
who watches through the railings as they play
hey!
cross-eyed mary finds it hard to get alone
she's a poor man's rich girl, and she'll do it for a song
she's a rich man's stealer, but her faith is good and strong
she's the robin hood of packing, let the poor man get along
3 colours - perfect for the dumbass security guards.
'nuff said.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
I was listening to a talk show this morning. Some lady called in and said she didn't understand exactly what this classification was all about but she was all for it since it would probably make her safer.
Scary stuff. Didn't care *at all* what it was that made her "feel safe". Fascism is in the hearts of the people long before some energetic leader realizes he has a home waiting for him.
Actualy, when I submitted the first one I got a reply saying "there has been an error with your submission", I typed the whole damn thing over again too.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
the strength of the us goverment was found in comprimise... making a strong central goverment, while makeing limitations on that power. While I tend to lean towards your way of thinking, we do need to have order in our goverment.
Selling software wont make you money, selling a service will.
What if you got some tim mcveigh type, who would probably pass such a test (if his milita ties were unknown), and would be able to sneak all the weaponry he wanted onboard.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I've said it a few times before in a few places, but it bears repeating. . .
Homeland passes. Here's what to do. (This post was a little intense sounding, but still, I believe, entirely valid. It's interesting to look back at where we were in November; not just at how the unimaginable happened, but how it now feels normal).
A German Jew on why he didn't get out in time. (This post is REALLY informative; it's a story by a German Jew who explains how he let all the warning signs slip past him and didn't get out before the Nazi axe fell. Read this one! It's gold.)
-Fantastic Lad
...make the wogs fly on separate planes!
Nor do I - the guy at Radio Shack doesn't need my phone number to give me my parts, so long as I have my Federal Reserve Notes. If I use a credit card, I'm automatically giving RatShack my phone number, though. (And I'm also giving him something more useful - my CC number!)
Nor would I permit the cops into my place without a warrant. I wouldn't resist, but I'd continually repeat that they were unwelcome here, and I'd continually ask them to leave, and I'd sue 'em into the Stone Age after they left.
At an airport, however, I've consented to a search of myself and my belongings - by virtue of all the large friendly signs saying, in a vaguely EULA-like way, that by Crossing This Line, I consent to such a search. If I don't want to be searched at the airport, the sign reminds me that I have a right to leave the airport.
> Giving up something so personal as my banking records is so entirely contrary to my way of life that I can find no conceivable grounds that your statement should apply.
Then I presume you've never filed for income tax, nor had the IRS come looking for you? Dude! You da man! How do you pull that off? Inquiring minds wanna evade!
Free clue: The drone at the airport sees "Green", "Yellow", or "Red". Maybe he sees your name and your flight itinerary. He sees none of the information that goes into the "green", "yellow", or "red", because he has no need to know.
Better clue: The alternative is to rely on the personal judgement of the drone. After eight hours of repeating "go ahead" at 10-second intervals, punctuated only by "hunh, that wun looks like an ay-rab, search him" and "ohfug, done to many ay-rabz, gunna get in trubl, better feel up that guy's grandma", the drone at the ticket counter or checkpoint would be highly unlikely to recognize Osama bin Ladin himself. The job is that mind-numbing.
So you start by building a system that does as much of the recognizing as practical for your drone. Even after eight hours of staring at a screen of "green" blocks, and even considering the drone is a government employee, there should be enough neurons still functioning at the end of the day to recognize that "yellow" (maybe one in a thousand) is not "green", and that "red" (probably one in a million) is also not "green".
You don't do that for privacy - you do it so that the system of "OK", "suspicious", and "terminate" works. (And so that it takes no more than a few seconds for most passengers, because it has to work for millions of people per day.)
But boiling down everything about someone into a block of green, yellow, or red pixels also protects your privacy pretty well.
The only other way I've seen of passenger profiling - the "El Al" method of a 5-minute heart-to-heart between a security guard (who has no sense of humor, as well he shouldn't) and every passenger. That method won't work here - because the air traffic volume in the US is vastly higher than that of Israel. But again, a happy side effect of automation of the profiling process is that your privacy is actually more protected than with a manual system.
What luck for the rulers that men do not think.
-Adolf Hitler
('men' = non-./r's)
Go rent Terry Gilliam's "Brazil" -- Gilliam's version, not the happy-happy version they play on the commercial teevee.
Ignore the cute era-mangling scenic design and focus on the mechanics of the society depicted.
If the characters were American, and the "Ministry of Information" was "Home1and Security" instead, would the movie seem less removed from today's reality?
Anonymous (but no coward)
Man, are you serious when you said MS SQL Server?? Well it makes me glad I am a Canadian because of our government was keeping such a huge piece of data on me I sure as hell wouldn't want it running on SQL Server. My heart goes out to you all. God's speed and good luck with that.
On the other hand...if they do run SQL Server it shouldn't be too hard for some terrorists to knock out with some new virus.
"Laugh, and the whole world laughs with you. Cry, and they still think its funny." - Mr. Boffo
Can we do no better than quoting the screen savers on ZDTV?
Really scary system BTW, I dont want the airlines scanning my credit, thank you very much.
My UID is prime and so is this number: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
Stupid people don't think about things unless they are within arms reach. The *possibility* of things happening to them don't occur to them because they have a hard time extrapolating potential futures from current events. The only thing that exists in their world are the things that are happening right *now*. "Do I feel good right now?" Well, some law was passed today, and I still feel okay, so the law must be fine.
I hate to say it, have for a long time avoided thinking about it. But people really are that stupid. Just can't think about anything that's not within arms reach. Anything they're not exactly in the middle of is beyond comprehension. So lacking reason, they resort to whatever primitive analogs are available, such as emotion. "It feels good to know efforts are underway to ensure my safety."
Sorry you clown. Socialism is the best there is. The government is the ultimate authority and has the RIGHT to kill anyone they want. Randy Weaver was a MONSTER who was very dangerous and deserved what he got because he was a CRIMINAL. The branch dividians were also MONSTERS who were hardcore criminals and deserved to be burned.
Banning the private ownership of all guns is necessary to make you unable to resist socialism. Gun owners and their families must be brutally killed and they must be shown to be MONSTERS and CRIMINALS to the masses!!
The people should be taxed at 100% of their incomes and the government can divvy it up fairly with exceptions for the government and the rulers.
Anyone who doesn't support socialism is a monster who should be destroyed.
In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:
(a) Olga Corbutt; (b) Sitting Bull; (c) Arnold Schwarzenegger; (d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 1979,the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
(a) Lost Norwegians; (b) Elvis; (c) A tour bus full of 80-year-old women; (d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
(a) John Dillinger; (b) The King of Sweden; c) The Boy Scouts; (d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
(a) A pizza delivery boy; (b) Pee Wee Herman; (c) Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day; (d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.
In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked, and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard by:
(a) The Smurfs; (b) Davy Jones; (c) The Little Mermaid; (d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.
In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver was murdered by:
(a) Captain Kid; (b) Charles Lindberg; (c) Mother Teresa; (d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
(a) Scooby Doo; (b) The Tooth Fairy; (c) Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid; (d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
(a) Richard Simmons; (b) Grandma Moses; (c) Michael Jordan; (d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
(a) Mr. Rogers; (b) Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems; (c) The World Wrestling Federation to promote "Mustapha the Merciless"; (d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed and thousands of people were killed by:
(a) Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck, and Elmer Fudd; (b) The Supreme Court of Florida; (c) Mr. Bean; (d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
(a) Enron; (b) The Lutheran Church; (c) The NFL; (d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
(a) Bonnie and Clyde; (b) Captain Kangaroo; (c) Billy Graham; (d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
Hmmm . . . nope, no patterns anywhere to justify profiling.
that you live in the best country in the world.
-- Amen.
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
Personally I believe in democracy over not violence. To argue justice is better served with the barrel of a gun than through principles and political action runs directly against our framers' intent(s). The Constitution embodies this desire for liberty through order, as the so preamble nicely captures:
Armed insurrection is inconsistent with upholding the Constitution -- it is the path to abrogating it, as was attempted in the Civil War. And before anyone cite Jefferson's words about watering trees with blood (the quote McVeigh wore on his T-shirt when arrested), note that he was soon talked out of his momentary exuberance by a friend.
There are many routes of protest and resistance far short of shooting people (and which people would these be?). What is necessary is for Americans aggrieved to pursue them.
The people of Italy loved Mussolini. He made the trains run on time.
The IPCC has purposely engineered a massive scientific fraud.
... as a kid and watch the ants run around and panic? It was fun to terrorize them and I always wondered what they were doing, why they ran around like that and where they were going.
I think I finally figured it out... they were trying to get my credit history!
----- sXe
is that you are surprised by this.
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
So, it uses my credit history and banking history to decide if I'm allowed to fly? Sounds like airtravel is only for upper-class people, and not for us "commoners"...
:) (Aug 1-3, Las Vegas, for those who don't know).
:)
:)
:)
Transportation officials say a contractor will be picked soon to build the nationwide computer system, which will check such things as credit reports and bank account activity and compare passenger names with those on government watch lists.
So..
For myself:
Credit History: low to moderate
Bank History: recent purchases of gas, guns, or large widthdrawls
Gov't watchlist: FBI - Cybercrimes
I'm going to have a "RED" rating, which means no air travel according to the article... Do you think this will be open for discussion at the terminal?
Lets not even talk about how many travelers won't be going to DefCon next year.
My credit history is a long run of usually breaking even (and sometimes not), and a few years of decent income and fixing past debts.
My bank history is mixed.. I've had some idiots at banks really mess up my attitude towards banks (see my previous rants). So I've had large sums of cash in banks, and then move the cash.
We won't discus why I'd be watched by the feds.
Consider this.. I'm going out of town for a month (like I did around Christmas).. I may take most of the cash out of my bank account (95%+) to have spending cash, since one of the credit bureaus completely hosed my rating and the bank won't issue me one of those handy-dandy Visa debit cards. I don't have a credit card that I could live on for a few days on the road, much less a month.
I do own guns. I have a small collection. I'm a red-blooded American, and that's one of the founding features of America is the right we have to own guns. Imagine George Washington saying "Now that we've become an independant nation, everyone hand over their guns." hahaha.
I'd almost guarantee that I'll flag as yellow or red if I'm going on vacation.
I wonder if trans-oceanic cruises will pick up more sales now.. If you can't fly in America, you sure won't be able to go anywhere but the Americas (North, Central, or South), unless someone else knows a good way to get to Europe, Asia, or Austraila without a plane.
I know it's a 6-8 hour flight across America, or 40+ hours of driving. They're going to be pushing transportation back years if they say any percentage of America can no longer fly.
Maybe they're just trying to make up for the bucks that the US Federal Gov't has been loosing into Amtrak every year.
I frequently talk to someone in Russia, and he really relates the happenings in America to the old Soviet controls over it's people.. Even down to the name "Homeland Security".
Maybe I should just make up a few extra sets of papers. One I travel with. One I get hotels with, and then one that's really me.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
do you really think it's "the terrorists" who win when you lose "civil liberties"?
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
IMHO the terrorist have succeded. terrorism is to change the way people live, and to make them live in fear, and thats whats happening. First of all, the terrorist arnt going to use planes again because they already did what they could and now we are looking for it, but this is overboard. Terrorism will always exist, unless we are a police state, and then still there will be some, there is no way to protect everyone, instead we should protect our ideals.
If you want to profile people, stop looking for the people from the middle east, not everyone there wants to destroy america, espically when they can leave it up to our great leader, he's doing a fine job at it
$ cat x.cc h();
/cygdrive/d/dnload
/cygdrive/d/dnload
/cygdrive/d/dnload
main()
{
int doom;
//begin code snippet if(PassengerEthnicity()=='arab')
{
InitiateSear
SetThreatLevel(doom);
};
}
unknown@OEMC OMPUTER
$ gcc -c x.c
unknown@OEMCOMPUTER
$ ls -l x.o
-rw-r--r-- 1 unknown unknown 516 Feb 28 21:07 x.o
unknown@OEMCOMPUTER
$
At least my 760 beacon score (Credit Rating) finally is going to do me some good. Keeping my bills paid will prevent me from getting felt up by the TSA. I'm all for it!
I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.
Suck my mother-fucking dick!
America is no longer the country it once was. We are living under a totalitarian regime. Do you really think this bullshit, "threat assessment" is going to really improve air travel safety? The obvious answere is no. They are just going to keep searching dark skinned people, just like the have been since the Reichstag, I mean World Trade Center went down.
CAPPS is not meant to prevent terrorism. It is meant to keep dissidents under control, and if possible out of our country. It is also meant to justify the massive amounts of information that the government is now compiling on every one of us.
This is part of an obvious trend of policies that eliminate privacy and freedom. Fun activity: Next time the terrorist threat level goes from yellow to orange watch C-Span to learn about what new laws the Big Brother has planned to make us safer. There is a direct correlation between the "terror alert color" and how Orwellian government proposals get. Last time it was orange, Bush told us that we had to attack Iraq because they support terror, subtlely implying that by attacking Iraq we would reduce our terrorist threat.
Our president claims that invading a middleastern country will reduce our threat of terrorism. CAPPS is not about terrorism, just like Iraq is not about terrorism, just like (fill in the blank) is not about terrorism. Wake up and smell the government.
By the way, did anyone else see the news story about how hacked Direct TV cards support terrorism? Nothing supports terrorism more than paying your taxes.
Do me a favor and double it!
That the little kid is unlikely to be trained to fly the plane into anything. Isn't that who they are really trying to catch? Oh yeah, them and the shoe bombers - also hard to teach a little kid to set fire to his shoes. Thank you shoe bomber for making sure I have to have good socks on every time I travel by air.
Some random searches are good, sure - but not at the level they are at which is impeding travel for everyone with no benefit that I can discern (do you really think someone couldn't get just about anything through if they really wanted to?). Frankly I would be fine with putting an impervious shield between the pilots and the passengers, and letting us cattle (even the first class cattle) take their chances with nothing more than the metal detectors at the security screening areas they have now and no more near-strip searches. Anyone that tries to take over a plane now is going to meet with stiff resistance from every passenger on the plane now that we all "know" what happens to planes that get hijacked, so I think pretty much all of the searches for things like boxcutters are the very definition of pointlessness.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You honestly still think terrorists are going to fly the friendly skys.
Well, you know what? I think you're a terrorist. Now strip and grab your toes!
1) Screening does not make it safe. http://www.bowlingforcolumbine.com/library/stupid. php Some argue that the passengers are less safe against hijackers without their pen knives, knitting needles, toenail clippers, and letter openers.
2) Who would pay?
3) What is the first thing a potential hijacker would want? A super-duper security clearance id!
4) Suppose you pass the offline screening test 'a couple years ago' and then your sheep leaves you, and you decide to hijack a plane with your can of mace. You think you should be able to show your pass and walk on by?
5) Do you look like your ID? Does anybody else?
Because it leaks information, giving you an oracle you can test against.
b arti/
This article, http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue7_10/chakra
demonstrates how:
"Abstract
Carnival Booth: An Algorithm for Defeating the Computer-Assisted Passenger Screening System by Samidh Chakrabarti and Aaron Strauss.
To improve the efficiency of airport security screening, the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) deployed the Computer Assisted Passenger Screening system (CAPS) in 1999. CAPS attempts to identify potential terrorists through the use of profiles so that security personnel can focus the bulk of their attention on high-risk individuals. In this paper, we show that since CAPS uses profiles to select passengers for increased scrutiny, it is actually less secure than systems that employ random searches. In particular, we present an algorithm called Carnival Booth that demonstrates how a terrorist cell can defeat the CAPS system. Using a combination of statistical analysis and computer simulation, we evaluate the efficacy of Carnival Booth and illustrate that CAPS is an ineffective security measure. Based on these findings, we argue that CAPS should not be legally permissible since it does not satisfy court-interpreted exemptions to the U.S. Constitution's Fourth Amendment. Finally, based both on our analysis of CAPS and historical case studies, we provide policy recommendations on how to improve air security."
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, as opposed to the less perfect one under the articles of confederation establish justice, there was no national courts under the AofC, congress had to rely on the state courts insure domestic tranquility, states were almost going to war over trade issues provide for the common defense, congress had no way to impose taxes , they had to ask the states for money, and hope they gave it. You can't run an army without money. promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
the preamble to the constitution point by point addresses the problems with the articles of confederation. If you want to read the framers intent for the nation as a whole, look at the declaration of independance. It clearly supports armed insurection against an unjust government
Passengers are basically being searched to prevent anyone from taking over a plane and using it as a bomb.
But unlike people, planes don't care about their privacy and exercise few of their basic civil rights.
So instead of limiting passengers, why don't we limit the ability of planes to be used as bombs? Limit the size of our planes, the distance they can travel and the amount of fuel / flammable material they can have on board? I'd easily give up long-distance non-stop flights in exchange for no further violations of my privacy.
OK, I grant that this won't work for continental flights.
For not having my Linux partition booted
and using cygwin and having a crappy
cut/paste functionality.
Sorry, guys.
I saw nothing in the article indicating this would be subjected to a vote by your elected representatives.
Well they found a new way to bankrupt airlines..
And for what? If I rob a bank what are the chances that I will rob it again knowing that security has been changed?
If I wanted to live like an Israeli afraid of everyone I would have moved ot Israel!!!
Ashcroft we want our constitution back!
Don't Tread on OpenSource
You don't do that for privacy - you do it so that the system of "OK", "suspicious", and "terminate" works.
And does it work, if used in place of more substantial security? El Al, as you mentioned, really does have good security. Yes, it's expensive; yes, it would be very difficult to scale to the volume we need. But we need to decide how much we care about security -- and, if we care enough to do it right, replace "feel good" measures that violate privacy with little effect in favor of measures that actually work. I object quite strongly to gratuitous gathering of information -- but less so to actual security measures (like placing all luggage in decompression chambers prior to loading).
Additionally, I simply can't conceive of an algorithm for detecting terrorists so selective that it will flag only 1 in every 10^6 as red and still be able to catch the actual terrorists out of the crowd. I've dealt with neural network systems (probably one of the best ways of going about something like this) and have quite a bit of respect for them -- but simply not that much.
Certainly, relying on the security guard's judgement may not be much better -- but the grandparent post's claim that building a database with my banking information will "protect [my] way of life" is just a bit much to swallow.
First there was offshore IT...
Don't like it, get the hell out. Or at least write your representative.
I wish I worked for the federal government so I could find my ex-wife's record and red flag the bitch! Let's see how much she likes getting a crevice search every time she flies. :D
do you use the streets? What if your house burns down... are you going to want the firefighters to help? What if someone breaks into your house, and stole things that had sentimental value, would you want the police to go over to the kid who egged your house 3 times and look around?
You cant have tires with spikes, you cant park infront of firehydrants, and you have to obey the police.
For every service we are given, wether it be police, streets, electrict, gas, roads, etc, we have to follow some rules to preserve those services. The same thing goes on at a national level.
Did I mention before that I tend to learn towards your way of thinking... im pretty sure I did. I like my privacy just as everyone does... but when the goverment has to step in to preserve the basic services either on a domestic or national level, I have to try to understand that.
However... when logic like the above gets twisted into something sinister(homeland securities act), I will protest. Im going next wendsay to an antiwar protest... so dont act like I dont try to see the wrongs in my goverment... but I also try to see the right things.
btw... typing in bold doesn't make your point any more or less valid.
Selling software wont make you money, selling a service will.
Didn't a certain governing body tell us to "Not tochange our way of life" after 9/11? This seems like a pretty big damn change to me.If we lose even a little bit what our fore fathers worked for, the terrorists have won in some way.
We're all stocked up on stupid here.
I liked a few of of your posts, for the first couple of paragraphs, before you went off on a tangent about huge government mind-control conspiracies. You tinfoil-beanie types give all of us with legitimate concerns about privacy a bad name.
0 1 - just my two bits
A company called Seisint has created a product called Accurint that was used by the government to catch the DC snipers .
Their price list alone is reminiscent of Gattaca which offers the ability to retrieve for most any U.S. citizen their:
6 Neighbors at 10 Different Addresses
Possible Relatives
Possible Drivers Licenses
Criminal (Felony) - 10 Year
It's bad enough if our government uses it to catch terrorists, what happens when AOL uses it to target their mass marketing?!?
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials
ok..let me get this straight..
the airline knows my threat level,
security knows my threat level,
presumably the pilots and staff would know if i was threat level "yellow"...yet they feel the need to "encrypt" my threat level? What data are they really trying to hide? If I don't board the plane, I am red, If I get searched more then usual I am yellow, otherwise I am green. Even they could grasp that every passenger will know every other passengers "threat level" through observation. You might as well put it in plain english on the ticket, unless you are hiding something extra.
Doesn't the Fair Credit Act allow you to know when your credit history might've acted against you (and to get a free copy of your credit report if this happens)? I would think being marked yellow or red was an example of working against you. So, how are they getting around this?
This will only piss off customers even MORE and drive more airlines out of business.
SMRT MOVE AIRLINES!!!
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
To quote a reference I quickly dug up:
In 1976 Earl Butz, the secretary of agriculture, resigned after it was widely publicized tht he had made a racist remark. Butz's statement had been: "I'll tell you what the coloreds want. It's three things: first, a tight pussy; second, loose shoes; and third, a warm place to shit."
Recently, if I believe what I find on the internet, Butz was elected to the NRA board.
Note that doesn't read "erected to an NRA board". Damn.
Sure it's true you can use a credit report to determine if you should loan someone $10k or $1000k.
But that's only one vector of information. The airline is not there to give you a loan, you've already paid so your financial solvency is of no concern. What would be of concern is if you were 33 years old and had only one credit card to your name, obtained four months ago - with no rental or home loan history!!
That's the kind of thing that also helps determine your credit score for house loans and things, beyond just your financial means of being able to make payments.
As for Specious Heuristics, I am going to go out on a limb and say that would also be a good name for a rock band, which you can now use the domain name to manage the fan site for! Good luck.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
So I'll interpret that as, "I can't think of a good counter-argument, so instead I'll just sputter and fume about how I fuck my mother. Yeah. That'll show him! Heh Heh! Me is smartest!"
But you do raise an interesting thought. You and your type, (the brain-damaged simpletons of the U.S.), will probably be among the last to be carted off; that is, you're too dumb to pose any threat to the Powers That Be. --You do as you are told and you don't mind working in the salt mines. --And heck, you'll even probably bludgeon any dissidents into pulp if told to by the wise, wise television talky person news head. You're the model citizen!
I stand before you in awe!
-Fantastic Lad
Not to be conspiracy minded or anything, but can't this work in reverse? Queries on the database can result in *new* records, yes? So perhaps this is also a bit of a trojan horse for the govt to track the movement of people... The possibility of assisting in the detection of Money laundering and Tax evasion would not be considered *negative* side effects by the govt...
Is big brother trying to watch a little closer?
The reason that it can be true that 1+1 > 2 is that very peculiar nonzero value of the + operator
this to me seems that the current system (in addition to vigilant passengers and air marshalls) is plenty effective.
You think even hundred people a day would matter to them? They already have your money, and you would be hard pressed to get it back from them by any means. You bought a ticket, and as far as they're concerned your refusal to board the plane is the same as not showing up - it just lets them sell a few more seats on that plane than they actually have!!
It's at the point where it makes a lot of sense to get a pilots license and do your own flying, perhaps using some sort of web based brokering service to get a few people together to shoulder the cost of a plan rental for a weekend or whatever. It might save money in the long run, and would certainly save a lot of hassle at the airport... jets are a lot faster but when you factor in the ~3 hour wait to get on the plane and get moving you'd probably still be better off timewise for most trips. Or drive - I prefer driving to flying any day.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
HOW DID THIS GET +1 INSIGHTFUL!??!?!?
What the fuck are the mods smoking. It's an AC to boot!
Heck, people were calling me a conspiracy nut when I was bitching about this stuff long before 9-11, talking about the upcoming world war, psychotic leaders, American concentration camps, economic collapses and such; when none of it was anything more than a whiff upon the wind.
So by my score card, I'm the guy with the clue and you're just another well-meaning dude behind the 8-ball.
There are three stages. .
Basically, I'm a few steps ahead of you. I'm just pointing out the land mines as I pass them. I've been asked sometimes why I bother, but the fact of the matter is that knowledge clogs the arteries if you staunch its flow. So peace to you man, and step where you will.
-Fantastic Lad
I know you have been saving that "Customer" rant for a long time (which I agree with the general thought), but I think you should shelve it for this discussion and wait a bit longer...
In this context "consumer" is exactly the right word. To the airline you are a customer, but in terms of profiling security risk what they are really looking for (at least partially) is, literally, what kind of consumer you have been - in terms of what debts you have accumulated (and paid off) through the years. If they find no evidence that you have been a consumer of any sort (no credit cards, no mortgages, etc) with no monetary history to speak of, then they would be a lot more likely to find you odd (you have to admit an American with no monetary history is like a cat without fur) and flag you the customer for extra searching, much as I was flagged because I was on a one way flight that I had purchased only days before. That's what profiling is all about, finding patterns that deviate from the norm and looking at them carefully.
It's a crappy way to treat a Customer, but then if the searches affect fewer customers there will also be fewer complaints overall - which is exactly why profiling comes about, because so many people are rigorously searched right now that make no sense to search that they are considering using profiling of some sort to reduce the set of people who have something to complain about and reduce the headache that air travel has become (so that airlines can get back to going bankrupt every ten years instead of every five).
Sadly, the other option (to simply bring searching back to where it was pre911) would never occur to anyone (in the airline industry and government), even though it makes the most sense for everyone and offers an insignificant extra security risk.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"Honey - you know that house we wanted to buy? Well I just got rerouted through 2 alternate airports due to bad weather, and now our FICO score is too low to get the loan..."
Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering kaboom...
Whatever the Slashdot specific version of Carnivore is called, right now it has woken up about four people with urgent pages pointing to your post. Talk about Carnivore bait!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
...since the folks at the airlines will be using "black", "brown", and "white" to determine the threat levels.
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
flying is a priviledge, not a right, you toolsheds.
doing random spot checks and whatever they've been doing up until now OBVIOUSLY doesn't work. doing even a basic background check on flyers is beyond the scope of our cheapo airline systems, hence the government steps in to do it for them. the airlines (and their insurers) WANT this.
what would you have them do? nothing? sure, climb aboard the next-missle-into-american-icon-express! don't forget your boxcutters!
the government requires checking you out for everything from getting a drivers license to purchasing explosives. why shouldn't they check you out when you climb onto a potential weapon of mass destruction?
i say check them twice. i know i'll feel better knowing at least SOMETHING is being done to at least attempt to keep my plane (or any of the thousands of others that fly daily) from dive bombing into disneyland or wherever.
all these tinfoil-hat-wearing conspiracy theorists crying about how this somehow impinges upon their rights somehow makes me sick.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO FLY.
you are ALLOWED to fly, out of the goodness that is the American airline system, which has now officially been majorly abused.
this is, (in a juvenile analogy that some of you whining morons might relate to) the equivalent of turning off open SMTP gateways with regard to spam.
the free ride is ending, with regard to airline safety. just as it has been with so many other previously open and insecure systems, that are being locked up over time. as it should.
these safeguards should have been in place long ago. lives would have been saved.
As the amount of data to analyze pike up , it becomes more and more difficult to get out true data from the noise. My prediction : if CAPS I would have been with ethnicity it would have changed nothing at all on the contrary to what you are purporting. Because the system would have been overwhelemed by the number of "high risk" passenger.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Here's the case of the nationalized Canadian citizen who was deported "back" to his homeland of Syria and has not been heard from since:
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PE story/TGAM/20021014/UDEPON/International/internati onal/internationalAmericasHeadline_temp/4/4/6/
Bernadette Devlin McCaliskey, the world-renowned Irish civil rights leader was refused entry into the United States of Ashcroft. At Chicago's O'Hare, she was told that she presented a danger and wouldn't be permitted to step foot on American soil. She begged them to recheck their computer. She insisted there had to be a mistake. She told them she came in peace. They said that Tony Blair's British government had told them by fax a different story. They said she was a risk. Yes, this is the same Devlin who at 21 became the youngest MP elected to Parliament. Deported:
http://www.ruminatethis.com/archives/000946.html
a Canadian citizen who was deported to India:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article16 89.htm
Last week, Eugene Angelopoulos arrived at JFK enroute to New York University, where he had been invited to speak at a conference on Philosophy and Politics. The Greek academic was instead detained at the airport, shackled and interrogated. He was asked to explain his views about an American war on Iraq, and immigration officials demanded to know if he was "anti-American." Ultimately, he found his way back to Athens, but his NYU stint was not to be, and he was shaken to the core.
Im an EU citizen between jobs. I filled in a recruiters' proforma last week. One of the questions was "would you relocate". I found myself putting "Yes, except for the USA". Totally subconsciously. Friends of mine are now are making an issue about going on business trips to the USA.
/. readers should too: US policy is ALIENATING people.
I used to live in the US (93-95) and enjoyed it. The people are great. But all this carnivore/TIA/privacy stuff has really got me worried. I am not so naive that I dont believe these things go on here but thats not the point: Here I am, an anglophone, ex-US resident, graduate technologist BLANKING the USA as a place of residence or partner in business because I cannot be CONFIDENT that the US government will not interfere with me. That really caused me to take a step back and I think US
I admire the USA. No other society for 1000 years has taken on the projects the Americans have: Thousands of miles of railroad and telegraph across deserted plains, space exploration, WWII, the internet, etc etc. I and many others like me have admired the courage with which the US has met challenges and the dignity with which she has met disaster , such as 9/11 and the shuttle losses.
This is not American bashing - far from it. I simply hope that Bush wakes up some time soon and asks the question "What is it about American FOREIGN POLICY that makes people want to attack us? What has happened to these people that they are so enraged?"
Those measures are also insult on terorist's imagination. If they once used aeroplane to do harm that doesn't means in any way that they can't invent a new way to blow something off.
I went to blockbuster, got a new card. Totally made up my Social Security #, as I did with my long distance.
My grocery card is listed under "Ted Nugent". My CVS discount drugstore card "Harry S Truman".
For airline tickets? Pay using cash. Sure you might get flagged and searched but so what? Make as little of a traceable trail as possible.
Remember on 9/11 that nothing that was being done by the terrorists was illegal. You could bring razors on board.
9/11 was the realization of a fed wet dream to run roughshod over civil rights and they had a perfect excuse to do it: "Terrorism". In fact, use "terrorism" as your excuse and you can get away with everything. "Terrorism" is the new "communism".
What did all of this wonderful new capability cost the United States? 3,000 lives, the WTC and our international standing as a respectable country with the perfect buffoon (W) leading us.
Some in government would say that that was a cheap price for keeping complete track of you.
Anonymous (obviously)
No useful text here, read the AC's parent post instead :-)
The FBI recently had some poor guy banged-up in South Africa for three weeks becasue his name was the same as a possible alias once used by a conman.
"When travelers check in, their names will be punched into the system..."
I wonder is this system will be equally inept. hope so, I could do with a decent laugh.
Imagine...
Mr Brian Sladen, I'm arresting you on the grounds that the computer thinks you must be a terrorist specialising in encryption...
Do you mind, your karma has just run over my dogma.
...even to the extent of completely physically separating the cockpit from the passenger area, with not even a speaker system connecting them (so that terrorists couldn't threaten the pilots by shooting passsengers). It was dismissed because of the dangers of medical or other emergencies that would require the pilots to change course and land asap.
-- Language is a virus from outer space.
If there are a few guys in a terrorist cell, all they have to do is go out on dry runs, meaning that they take an innocent flight, with no weapons, no box-cutters, etc.
The ones who get the extra interview--since they have a high "threat score"--are obviously the ones who will NOT go on the terrorist mission. But the ones who are rated green will know that they can more easily go on their hijacking mission without arousing suspicion at the gate.
The only things we've done so far to make our planes safer are:
1) Reinforce the cockpit doors.
2) Arm a few of the pilots.
3) Put Air Marshalls on a few more flights.
4) Have the passengers fight back.
Number 4 has in fact been the most effective. Passengers fighting back saved either the White House or Congress (no one knows for sure what the target was) from the plane that ended up crashing in PA. Passengers fighting back also foiled Richard Reed (the shoebomber).
CAPPS II in no way is going to increase security, and is in fact going to make planes less safe because it will give sleeper terrorists a method to find out whether they are on watch lists or not. Whoever is in our Homeland Security Department devising these idiotic plans should be fired.
Passes? Pass is?
Anyway, if it's encrypted with the ranking, how will I read my seat number. Oh, wait, there are only three rankings, so a brut force attack shouldn't take long.
Have a look at [url=http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/02/28/airport. security.ap/index.html]this article[/url], all the way at the bottom.
[quote]Nine to 11 of the 19 hijackers on September 11 were were flagged by the original CAPPS, but weren't searched because the system gave a pass to passengers who didn't check their bags, Hudson said. People without checked bags are now included.[/quote]
Don't just spout off FUD -- even if it is FUD in your favor. I don't support CAPPS II, but I do acknowledge that CAPPS did find half the hijackers... but didn't act on them.
Support a few technologists in Washington.
Does anyone really think this system will only be used at the airports? This is the PRACTICE system.
If the authorities think it works "well enough", they'll be extending it to anything they can get control of.
The Freedom of Information Act is the tool of choice for finding out exactly what about you is in those databases. In fact, I would not be surprised if a lot of people started flooding them with requests - and forcing them to answer, with lawsuits if they do not comply with the Act.
As an aside, an Expedia ad popped up when I went to that article. I love it when collusion with advertisers is that obvious.
Get off my launchpad!
#define GREEN 0 ...
#define YELLOW 1
#define RED 2
int DetermineThreatLevel (struct victim * pId)
{
if substr(pId.lastname, "Al-")
return RED;
else if Administration.OpinionPolls 40
return YELLOW;
return GREEN;
}
seven two six five
seven four six one seven
two six four two e
So whenever they refreh their database with a query to my credit rating, are those queries going to count just like other queries? Each credit query causes a small "bad spot" hit on the rating, see Discussion about Employers using credit reports during the hiring process here:
Dealing with Employers that Perform Credit Checks
If yes, then frequent fliers are going to get the "too many queries" credit rating penalty, which may cause some uproar due to the fact that some people will get denied credit because the CAPPSII system pushed them over the edge.
despite Congress passing bills to halt it. America is going to hell in a handbasket.
Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
I recently got to hear what an elderly former Soviet immigre thought of the current situation.
She compares Bush to Stalin...unfavorably. She observed that the propaganda spewing from DC these days isn't half as subtle as that she heard 60 years ago.
And like so many Americans, she's wondering if at some point the whole intelligencia will move to Canada.
My wife and I both predict that within 10 years (most likely less) it will be required to carry "papers" while you travel, even in your car....
Hrmm. I wonder what they'll make you carry. Probably some sort of identification and license, a registration of some sort (to "prove" you own the car--nothing like making you prove your innocence), documentation of compliance with other laws (insurance cards, perhaps), and a few others. Maybe we can have the police ask where you're going when they pull you over, and react negatively to you telling them, even politely, that it isn't their business.
Ten years, my arse.
Seriously, though, does it bother anybody that we have to carry all these papers, and produce them on demand, just to run our normal, daily lives. I know somebody's going to jump on me and say I don't need a car, that I can ride my bike, or the bus, or something, but unless you live in a large city (I don't), no, you really can't. Furthermore, modern Constitutional jurisprudence has determined that citizens have the right to travel freely between the states. With aviation and train requiring security screening and government permission, and roadway requiring licenses and government permission, how are we permitted to exercise that right? Walking, bicycling, horse-drawn carriage, etc? All are illegal along Interstate highways. Can't trespass on others' private property, either. As a practical matter, you can't exercise your freedom to travel without government permission; that being the case, is it really a freedom?
The short answer is the government has already gone way too far, and that We the People have let them. We complain about what they do, but turn around and re-elect the same people. Talk is cheap; try putting somebody new in office. If you don't like the choices, run for office yourself. I intend to, at my earliest opportunity. Not because I want to be a politician--God forbid!--but because I'm sick and tired of seeing our rights (that's yours and mine) trampled by a government that doesn't respect us.
Moderate drunk! It's more fun that way!
Some very nice discussion here, but I notice that few have proposed alternatives to CAPPS, nor a meaningful approach to security of the flying public. Perhaps that is due to the nature of the Slashdot reader- IT smarties, not security smarties. Most here see themselves as privacy experts too- all it takes to be a privacy expert is to posit that more (privacy) is better. From Privacy Activism:
>Instead of CAPPS, why not reinforce cockpit doors,
A work in progress, and step in the right direction.
>match passengers with their luggage, employ explosive-sensing detectors or dogs on passengers, baggage and cargo.
Already in effect. Dogs need rest breaks, training, play time, etc. Explosive detectors are expensive and require trained, experienced operators- you will pay for them both in higher ticket prices and lengthier pre-boarding times, or as is presently happening, avoid flying altogether!
>Consider fly by wire guidance systems that would allow a pilot to flip a switch to automatically land an endangered plane at the nearest military airport.
Very little point to this. Consider writing the code to automate the functions of the pilot altogether but don't forget to include a subroutine that effectively models the pilots judgment and experience- some things humans will always be better at doing.
This isn't open source folks. It involves lives and surfaces from irrationally desperate hatred or insanity.
Sept 11 changed the way I look at my job. I want to feel less vulnerable, and we've only made a little progress.
I agree that we need to improve things. As a working pilot, I have had to pass through security my entire career to make sure I wasn't carrying explosives or weapons. If I intended harm, I wouldn't need anything more than the same access to the controls that I've always had. (Two pilots who pointed this precise issue out while being screened were arrested on seperate occasions.) Why do we subject working crew members to this type of mis-targeted inspection? We need to tailor the inspection to the type of threat. Consequently I advocate more intense background and psychological scrutiny on all individuals in security sensitive positions (not just pilots). Likewise, the flying public should endure more than just a cursory inspection, and whatever form it takes must be effective on a scale of millions per day. Is CAPPS the answer? Maybe not, but whatever evolves is unlikely to ever satisfy privacy advocates.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
I like to hear Thriller and a little disco beat, and that means I like young boys and should be locked away with degenerates and drug dealers?!
Actually, it does.
I respect your guy'es notion of leaving the U.S. Some of the places you mention are quite nice. However, I am American as well as a tranhumanist (we are the people who want bio-nano to live forever young) and I have as much right to pursue my life in America as any other American does.
I intend to stay and fight. America was created by people who believed in freedom and I resent both the Right and the Left in stripping away our freedom. I believe we should find a way to destroy these people and take back our country, which is rightfully ours.
Use of the political system to suppress anti-aging biomedical technology is the moral equivalent of genocide. And the Bush administration is full of these genocidal monsters (Kass, Calahan, and Fukuyama among others).
How long, exactly, has the US government had access to everyone's bank records without a warrent? I guess it was probably the USA PATRIOT act but they may well be simply "asking" the banks for the imformation and they are handing it over even though the government may not be able to compel them to, because they are spineless. The sections in the USA PATRIOT act regarding banking relate largely to moneylaundering, but maybe the US government is taking the position that everyone is a moneylaunderer until it is proved otherwise by examining their bank records.
When my wife heard about this program, it inspired her to immediately sign both herself and me up as proverbial "card-carrying members of the ACLU." I highly recommend it to anyone else who is concerned but non-melodramatic.
Be who you are...and be it in style!
I control everyone's minds. I am the only person who has free will, thus I influence everyone else's decisions at my whim.
Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
Meme. --Designed to lock people in place in terms of awareness. People think that extraordinary evidence is required when standard, run of the mill evidence is all you need. For instance. .
1: It's true. The USgov is controlling everyone's thought (except yours) and you are the only one (outside the conspiracy) who knows about it.
You make it sound big and bad, when really, all you need is basic television broadcasting to do the lion's share of the social programming. It's unbelievably effective, to the point where it affects nearly all of our decisions and behavior patterns, it tells us what to desire, what and when to feel, and it is so ubiquitous as to be virtually invisible. The most effective piece of advertising ever perpetrated upon the masses is that, "Advertising doesn't really affect you." That's mind control, and what extraordinary evidence do I need? None. But people have been conditioned to think that claiming that people are programmed does need extraordinary evidence. So when I cannot provide anything which rates above 'mundane', people think, "Ah, see? It's nothing."
--This whole war with Iraq has been sold to the bulk of the American people through such basic methods. The fact that Bush hasn't been impeached, (or dragged out and shot for his many mis-deeds and lies), is evidence of just how effective it has been!
The manipulations of the electromagnetic (EM) spectrum, while more exotic and secret, are more used just as mood amplifiers and modifiers. It is no scientific secret that one can use EM to modify behavior, mood and mental states. --Well, even though this is scientifically accepted, the public has been led away from looking at this fact and as such, will respond primarily with disbelief. But the science itself isn't hidden, it just isn't given top billing air time. But it is commonly accessible knowledge; it's not locked away. You can easily find some decent articles and papers, and I can give you some book titles written by respected scientists, but none of it is extraordinary, and as such it is not evidence which will be able to satisfy the requirements of the "Extraordinary claims. .
The same goes for many of the other methods of controlling people. --That anti-depressant drugs have been pushed with such force and success upon Americas is no secret. All one need do is some very basic research to find out what exactly those drugs do to one's ability to think and make decisions; on how much more receptive people become to suggestion.
All you have to do is some cursory reading in a few of these subjects to start to see what is going on. Yet very, very few people do that. They have been led to believe that there isn't anything extraordinary going on, and so why should they bother looking? --Circular logic, which takes one exactly no place. Leaves one watching CNN and nodding in time to the beat.
Indeed, the real question is not so much whether or not the tools for social programming are in place, because they clearly are, rather the question becomes, "is there a deliberate use of those tools going on?"
Again, you don't have to dig very far at all to discover the answer to that question! But the first step is the most difficult. One must get up from the couch and make the effort. You have to get out of the information rut you are in, and you have to dig. One cannot sit on one's ass and demand extraordinary evidence, because that is exactly what people have been told to do by those who don't want anybody seeing what is really happening.
--Think about it; where did you hear that phrase? "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Yes, because it is a meme, you most often heard it repeated by the people around you, but where did they first hear it? Where did it come from? Answer this question and you'll have found an important clue.
Here's one example. .
One of the most effective bits of social programming has comes from the simple court room drama as seen endlessly aired on countless television programs. People have been hammered by the methods of the legal system; so hammered that they unconsciously apply those methods to all aspects of their lives.
The most important key factor being that, "The Burden of Proof lies with the accuser."
Allow me to illustrate. .
The jury (the public) sits in the jury box. They are not allowed to read newspapers or watch television or interact in any way with the outside world during the course of the trial. (They are not allowed to seek answers for themselves, but must content themselves only with the information prepared and performed for them by the lawyers on the court room stage.) They are then instructed to reach a determination of massive and final importance; the guilt or innocence of the accused based solely on this information. What they will make the binding decision to believe. No changing minds later. After the court room presentation, the jury's belief is not allowed to change; it must be fixed and set.
Now while this is a fairly sensible system for resolving legal dilemmas, it is an absolutely lousy system for day to day living, for building one's personal belief structures. --But look around! People, for the most part, have been successfully trained to not look for anything themselves, to listen only to the arguments presented by the television, (while they sit in their living room jury boxes). And television is just a shadow play. The Punch & Judy puppets televised in heated debate are worn by only one performer. The people who own the media. The court room drama is fixed. Look around!
People, (you for instance), when confronted by a fascinating new concept do not automatically go to look for themselves --Which, I think, is a most un-natural reaction. Just look at a child to see how people behaved before the programming took hold; "I saw a turtle in the back yard!" "Wow! Really?!" --And all the kids run off to see for themselves. They are proactive in their learning. They don't sit around in the living room demanding not just proof, but extraordinary proof! --And then heaping ridicule when the first kid is unable to provide it.
And really, what proof, short of bringing a live turtle into the house, can anybody possibly provide? Photographic or video evidence is never unconvincing. Witness testimony is worthless. Indeed, since it is strategically impossible to bring a live turtle into the living room of every lazy American, the only 'proof' which has any value is that of the Very Serious Authority Figure as presented by the Very Serious CNN Media Channel. Mind-games and nothing more!
Look around! This is how people really behave! --I say people have been programmed by the government and corporate world, and you suggest I am, (how did you put it. .
I must apologize if this all makes you feel annoyed, but I can honestly say that the arguments you give are very hackneyed photocopies of photocopies. "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." --Responses you have been instructed to give in order that you be prevented from waking up.
It sucks to learn that one has been running on auto-pilot, and it sucks even more to realize that the auto-pilot was built by somebody other than yourself. It sucks to have been made a fool. I know; I've been there. But truth hurts. Undoing these knots and facing the crushed ego is called "Dying the little death," and it is a necessary part of real growth, and it is hard and it hurts. --Indeed, it hurts so much that many people simply refuse to try. Denial is much more sweet and easy. Many people will never consider honestly that their minds are not their own. Not even for a fraction of a minute.
I wonder what kind of person you are. .
-Fantastic Lad
The rest stands, even if it is a somewhat lazy and unpolished posting.
Right-o, then!
-Fantastic Lad
Sorry, CAPPS II and making sure we have firefighters and police man are NOT the same. CAPPS II is an invasion of privacy and restricts the rights of U.S. Citizens to freely and anonymously travle throughout the nation.
I WOULD rather DIE than give into terror inducing and civil liberty stripping programs like CAPPS II.
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)