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Apple and CompUSA Working on 'Software on Demand'
pimpbott writes "Apple is working with SoftwareToGo to install kiosks in CompUSA stores to deliver software on demand. Imagine walking into your local CompUSA and ordering some obscure title that nobody would ordinarily stock, paying for it, and walking out with a custom-burned CD-ROM. This not only gets more titles published and available to the public at large by reducing the need for expensive shelf space and other publishing costs, but it keeps embarassingly large, mostly empty software boxes from ending up in the landfill."
Anybody thinks that they will be using LimeWire to download the software ?
We've had this for years! Hotline, FTP, KDX, Aquisition have given me Software2Go for as long as I can remember.
"I tend to think of OS X as Linux with QA and Taste", James Gosling, creator of Java
Imagine walking into your local CompUSA...
[shudder]
I know several campfire horror stories that begin that way. They usually end with "but that is the price AFTER the mail-in rebate. {cue maniacal laughter}"
-a
"The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Roger Brinner
More and more people are getting broadband. Call me unimaginative but, in the long run, what would this scheme offer over downloadable software? I'm sure some people will still be lacking internet connections, but will it really be enough people to subsidize this form of software distribution?
It's about time someone thought of doing something like this. Heck, if it catches on, you could probably set this up as a vending type of machine. Imagine going down to the "Quick-E-Mart" at 3AM andpurchasing a copy of an imaging program to help work on the report due first thing in the morning.
Of course, I think that there needs to be some valid way to register or prove that you actually did purchase this software since something like this may cause more piracy and/or fraud.
I wish my lawn was emo, so it would cut itself.
I like to think that the software I just bought comes with at least a little bit of explaination.. I fondly remember the days when you bought a book on linux and you got slackware free on a CD.. (I still have the CDs and books)
I personally like "hard copy" manuals. To cut costs, many companies are providing documentation in the form of online electronic files. For those of us who actually like reading "hard copy" manuals, this type of software distribution might be a problem.
Of course, that might just be the "price" you pay for access to the specific software that you want.
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
The Macintosh has thousands of titles, but you'd be hard-pressed to know this by walking into any computer store--even Apple Stores.
Part of this is how the Mac market works. There are proportionally fewer titles to PCs, but then, only a handful of titles are required for general applications, and the quality of Macintosh titles are stronger, in my opinion, because that smaller market is agressively competitive. Mac users can't tolerate crappy apps. And, frankly, how many word processors, screensavers, photo galleries, and diagnostic tools does one really need?
The other problem is mindshare on the part of a retailer. Space is precious, and you don't want to use lots of space on titles that move slowly. In an Apple Store, the most common and popular apps are displayed. Need a copy of CADMover? You'll need to go to mail-order or call the vendor. Photoshop plug-ins? Pre-flight software? SOL if go to the store.
On-demand CDs is an excellent idea for these situations. In fact, since all Macs sold today come with DVD-ROM ability, you can pack many apps on a single disk. The idea helps the sales and throughput of the scrappy but innovative businesses with fine products, and eases the retailer's space burden while still selling product. More importantly, you, the consumer, get what you need. Wins all around.
Possible problems? Bad media, as you could have with any software purchase. This idea also doesn't help products with a hardware element, such as the EyeTV PVR.
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
SO this means ill be getting LESS documentation? I didnt think that was possible.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
Realistically most software isn't that big, Photoshop is about 150MB, that's a lot to download on my dial-up but who going to drop $700 after just walking into a CompuServ, if you have that money you can have it overnight with FedEx.
And most good software for the Mac comes from Shareware and Freeware developers,and I'd bet, though I couldn't verify, that the average size of those files isn't much more than 20MB.
Otherwise, with the exception of other bloated (usually for the best) by Adobe and Microsoft (which you usually order with your computer anyway) there isn't much that anyone can't download overnight on almost any connecntion, and, as someone pointed out, those times have been dropping because of the proliferation of broadband.
I think it's a neat idea but totally unecessary. Finding Mac software is very hard, especially in non-urban areas (the Circuit City didn't have a single Mac app, except, by chance, the old Diablo which was released in the same box for both OS's), but demand just isn't there for kiosks, especially not at CompuServ.
Apple would be better off having offered a super-secure, super-reliable server to download software from, instead of asking people to drive an hour to get what they could download in that time.
I have two issues with a system like this. 1. How easy would it be to do this. Will I have to run down a sales person and will i get strange looks then the manager then "ohh yea I forgot we did that" 2. Any software? Such as games? Because some of the software is not boxed what about price? Will it be cheaper because I am not getting a manual and whatnot?
~~~
I see a lot of comments from the Slashdot perspective, but for the people out there that do frequent CompUSA, this is something that Apple should be commened for trying.
If this takes off, Macintosh owners will gain access to more software. CompUSA will be able to stock more titles for less space with no hassle with moving physical boxes around.
Not only that, PC shoppers might take a look at the Apple equipment and ask, 'what about software?' Then they can browse the listings at the kiosk and see what's available.
Apple faces significant pressure on many fronts in today's marketplace, but it's nice to see them trying new things. In fact, in their position, they must.
People like looking at the box to make sure it's the right thing. I can only assume that most consumers won't be using this service, as they wouldn't necessarily know what software they're looking for. There's a reason it's called shopping, and not buying stuff.
SoftwareToGo reminds me of the Nintendo Disk Writer systems or the "Game Kiosk" idea for the SNES and GameBoy. (If only in terms of overall concept. I also seem to have this misconception that I was able to reuse old cartridges in the DiskWriter system . . . )
:-)
I thought it was a good idea then, and I still think it's a good idea now. Now if we can only get movies and music this way
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
The possibility of embedding registration numbers and the like on the CD is there, of course, and is probably part of the system.
All in all, given the fact that many people still can't download truly huge CD images from home, this seems like a promising idea.
advantages to publisher:
1) lower cost of market entry: It offers a way for an obscure title to become discovered and expand without having to be ready for a major distribution market. yet still make some money and have professional distribution even when its small.
2) If they print your disk for you they can watermark the serial number right into it. if it showed up later on the net they know you did it. heck maybe they could just make your visa card number part of the activation code.
3) plus they could embed all sort of copy protection into it as any physical disk publisher can do.
4) Sure dilligent thieves could subvert this but if they are stocking rare titles theres no market.
advnatages to buyer:
1) youre getting the software from a trusted source. personally I sweat over installing any software I download from an untrusted source. its the dark side of freeware => lack of responsible party.
2) proof of ownership. you own it. maybe you can even sell it to someone else if you want. or qualify for upgrades. In bussiness circles having an official hardcopy is an important part of software accountability.
3) one stop shopping and less hassle. imagine you work at a company an suddenly need some peice of software, do you want to go web surfing or just go buy it: did I get the latest version? did I get all of the parts I need to install it? did I get the documentation? do I have it all on a hard copy disk? Did it download correctly? yes you can do all of that, but its nice to be able to pay someone to do it for you.
4) if you pay for software it increaces the chance creators are likely to create more or maintain it or possibly even offer support.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Why bother with the part where you walk into CompUSA? The last time I went in there I had to wait in line quite a long while to talk to someone knowledgeable, but was accosted without prompting by a lurking sales droid to buy an extended warranty on products I was holding while I was waiting in yet another line for a cashier:)
No, really.
With hard drive space so cheap, why not pre-load all kinds of software, each with a unique encryption key (varies for software, computer) and let the user call in with a credit card number to get the key for the software?
Until broadband for the last mile is a reality, I think this is a lot less hassle than visiting CompUSA.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
yeah, put one of these in the student union or in a drom on a big campus with a built in student discount and I bet it would sell stuff like gangbusters... especially games :)
The only shred of content in that article that is news is CompUSA. Users have been dowloading software for years now through various means. Does CompUSA think that by installing a Software to Go kiosk in their store, that's going to expand their (and STG's) market?
Has anyone tried to get help in a CompUSA store? It's impossible to find somebody who knows much about anything (if anyone out there reading this works on the CompUSA sales floor, sorry. It's true, you guys have a rep for lagging). How exactly does a person who doesn't know much about computers (hence the reason they're in CompUSA in the first place) going to figure out how to work the kiosk? Who at CompUSA is going to help them?
The sad but true fact is this: People like to have something tangible to look over before they buy. That's why packaging exists in the first place. People who are not knowledgeable about downloading and installing software from home, where they should be doing it are not going to walk up to a kiosk and get the software all by themselves. Face it. Example: how often do you see people in Borders using the kiosks to look up books? Not that often. That's because people who can't look up titles for themselves will go straight to a sales person, and ask.
Download it from home. If you don't know how, then packaging is here to stay.
Mr. Bond, they have a saying in Chicago: Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time is enemy action.
This is where I think we'll see software distribution going...
Right now, Steam is being tested specifically for delivering Half-Life and various mods such as Counter-Strike, but in a presentation they gave at the Game Developer's Conference a couple of years ago, they discussed how it could be used for delivering any type of software. It's pretty straightforward: you have a user account, you select which application you want to use, the app checks your account against the software, and if validated, updates your software as needed.
More importantly from a developers standpoint, it would theoretically make piracy a lot tougher for the average user. A lot of the incremental Counter-Strike updates delivered via Steam are anti-cheat related, so I can see technology used in a similar way to keep the crackers on their toes.
It's interesting from a Proof Of Concept perspective, and Valve seems to be committed to the app - it would appear they've been spending more time on it then they have developing any games...
There's a whole lot of potential with this type of delivery system, especially for people who aren't comfortable with an ASP model.
SoftWareToGo seems a little late with the kiosk model: it didn't work too well for that company that tried the "burn your own compilation CDs" - I remember seeing one of those kiosks in a neighborhood Wherehouse for about 15 minutes.
- learn to swim.
I would assume this would be better off if they had the files on location. They can download them to the kiosk, and burn them in no time. Hell, maybe even have a laser printer at the kiosk to print out the software manuals as well.
Compusa has the benefit of having software as one of their products. They can have the product in backup and produce it on site for a customer. Not like barnes and nobles where if you're looking for a book, you have to wait 3-5 weeks for them to order it.
This is would be a nice feature for people who don't go to e-tail or trust e-purchases.
I'd like to pick up older games like Full Throttle or Sam & Max, or the Infocom collections, without relying on eBay
I don't think this is likely to fly. Most programs, games especially, are not particularly future compatible. Porting software to Mac OS X is feasible with Carbon, but isn't automatic. As soon as you ask for money, you are setting up expectations that the program will actually work, not just on museum-piece hardware.
Think about how little software from the Mac OS 7 era still works on OS 9, much less OS X. There's always some glitch (doesn't work on HFS+ volumes, had some weird implementation of heirarchical menus, etc.)
If the owner of these old games hasn't seen fit to update them for the new platform, this kiosk isn't going to make that much difference in the economics. You still need to pay the developers to go over the code to eliminate bit-rot, for a market that is probably very small.
The main benefit is for retailers, who don't have to keep inventory and shelf space for lots of Mac titles, when they hardly have space for the PC titles they want to carry.
I think this software on demand distribution system will be generally a good thing for the market, because I explain several times a day how the software a customer is looking for exists, but just not here. Very few users are savvy enough to pirate the software, many wouldn't know where to look to find the software, quite a few aren't comfortable with online credit card transactions, and having this resource would be very helpful. Also, CompUSA installs pretty much everything it sells for free. So in theory, I could send a customer with a brand new computer out the door with all the hardware and software they need, even if it's an obscure title. That is valuable. And CompUSA can be pretty lame about keeping products in stock, and this gives us more options for the customer. Although, in fairness, our store could run out of the box inserts or something stupid like that and void all the advantages of this system : ]
I'm curious to see if my store gets one.
With hard drive space so cheap, why not pre-load all kinds of software, each with a unique encryption key (varies for software, computer) and let the user call in with a credit card number to get the key for the software?
This has been tried. I think one of the main problems is that the software gets out of date. Six months from now, there is a new version. You don't want people to keep buying the old version that came with their hard drive. The other problem is probably keeping up with changes at the computer vendors as they upgrade their product mix. The release of a new OS install becomes a retail software situation, and the system probably isn't set up well to do that. Deadlines are hard enough to meet without some marketing-type guy having to update the contract with the software supplier.
From a user perspective, OS upgrades become more difficult. You want to keep all those unused software archives when getting a new hard drive or OS? A hassle.
This is a good idea because it will give us Mac people somewhere to buy software (beside the internet). Stores do not generally have a robust selection of Mac software on their shelves. This would give them a way to have the selection without the shelves.
Even going P2P the selection of Mac software is bad (unless you are after office or photoshop).
I used to walk around CompUSA, et. al., to find what software is available for my Mac. What I really wanted, & never found, were Demos of software to get a real look & feel before buying a certain application. I would like them right there in the store to peruse. (Even the printed box wasn't enough info.) re: downloading. I would rather recieve an actual CD with demoed software than hassle with downloading & copying onto a disk for backup. Regarding documentation, I have mourned for years the reduction of paper manuals. I need to troubleshoot from a *book while I'm having trouble with the Mac machine or screen itself. They can't fool me. Now I have to do more of the work myself (e.g. print out a manual). It costs me more for paper & ink than their mass production, and costs me more in time, too. I'm trying to be patient with the industry. Go, Jef Raskin!
Yeah, pay ten bucks, and you get a disk with software written in REALbasic with a crappy brushed metal interface. It doesn't actually do what you want, but the author will promise you it'll get fixed in the next update.
You'd think Apple's web people would pay more attention to details like that....
Who's going to watch and run this system?
Can the store prevent someone from walking in the store with a 20gig ipod and leaving with 20 gigs worth of downloaded software?
Apple wants this so they can issue OS X and application updates (e.g., iDVD aka iLife). This will make (1) impulse purchases more likely and (2) allow them to update the Apple software options in the store nearly instantaneously - think MacWorld releases.
Third party apps are the gravy of this basic meal.
Forget about your needs...this isn't about you. The biggest benefit here isn't the convenience to the shopper, it's the ability for the store to...
1. Stock a wider selection of titles
2. Prevent theft (hard to walk out the door with a kiosk).
3. Save money on inventory. Retailers *hate* having to tie up their cash in physical goods. It's a neccessary cost, but that's money that could be off doing other things on the operations or finance side of the business.
4. Make more money on existing shelf space by putting other things where the software titles are. Even the tiny amount of space allocated to Mac software is worth a lot across a National footprint of stores.
5. Maybe take a higher margin....the upfront cost for a kiosk may be high, but over time and with volume this distribution system could result in higher profits because of 2, 3, and 4 above.
The benefit to the consumer comes in with the added variety, but make no mistake: this is a play for the retailer, and a damn fine one.
Good for the retailer($), good for Apple(demonstrates range of titles), OK for the consumer (No mail ordering)...good idea
I agree I think Kinkos would be a better place to do this than Compusa. Its pretty easy for Kinko's to add CD/DVD burning (they already have internet access). Its pretty hard for CompUSA to add on demand publishing and binding.
Load it onto my iPod and I'm out'a here
...Where in Canada do you live?
:-p
Future Shop near my place has shit all for software on any of the Macs... I usually end up setting them up from MacAddict CDs and my own CDs I bring in (Game demos and whatnot)
The saddest thing is I don't even work there...
For those customers who don't have broadband running into their house, burn software updates and demos for free. Not having to download a 76MB combo updater for OSX 10.2, a 90MB game demo, and a few other things like that would probably sell a lot more machines and software.
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This is not a new idea at all. I remember buying games from Menzies (a UK newsagent chain) for the Spectrum+. You browse the shelves and take the empty box up to the counter. They'd then put a blank cassette into a machine and make a copy of the game you want and put the cassette into the box.
Yes, it meant a bit of a wait but it had all the same advantages for the retailer as this idea does (no unpopular software clogging up shelves, matching supply to demand etc.). Plus, because you got the official box you also got all the documentation you needed (what more do you need than the keys for up, down, left, right and fire?)
This is a tried and tested idea and about time someone brought it into the CD age.
I know most of you are laughing... but for people who can't/won't download stuff from the net (legally or illegally) this may be a great way to save money on packaging and storage. While vastly increasing available titles...
I think it would work provided they came up with a decent way to keep people from copying the software after it's been burned (at least some titles attempt cd copyright protection now... if everything was on CD-R forget it).
Now back to Kazaa... =)
The SCUMM engine that drives the mentioned games has already been ported to (well, emulated on) OS X.
Cail
Back in the day, my Mom ordered a Quadra from Apple and it came with some cd's that had locked software on them. I don't remember exactly how it worked or what it was called (Software Express?) but I imagine you called and gave them a credit card number and they'd give you the key.
Don't know how succesful they were, just that my Mom never got anything from them.
Full Throttle, Sam & Max, the Infocom collections, Civilization II, Diablo I, Master of Orion 2, Heroes of Might and Magic 2, JauntTrooper (Mission Thunderbolt, c. 1991), and even The Fools Errand (c. 1987) all run just fine under MacOS X in Classic. This is all MacOS 7 era stuff, except for the bits that were designed for 6.
In fact, the VAST majority of Mac software that I have tested still works just fine, even the stuff from long ago. Basically, if it actually followed the rules in the Inside Mac books it still works fine, no matter when it was written. Even a lot of the stuff that was less obedient still does.
And the things that don't run (Afterlife, for example) tend to not run because of something astonishingly stupid that the developer did. For example, Afterlife checks the version of the CD ROM driver installed, and if it isn't higher than 5.? it refuses to run at all. This broke when Apple integrated the DVD driver and the version number went back to 1.?. If you go in and hack your version number, you can make it run.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
thats wut it was called