Slashdot Mirror
Freenet 0.5.1 Released, P2P Network Stabilizing
mids writes "With version 0.5.1, Freenet isn't only the most secure & anonymous P2P network, but also getting pretty fast!
Reliable downloading of files as large as 700MB from Freenet at average download rates as high as 100k/sec on a broadband internet connection are sighted (which compares quite favorably to more conventional P2P applications)."
What's the music scene like? Is there as wide of a selection as I'd find on Gnutella?
go away.
What? No Comments?
I can't resist.. sorry?
(probably not) FP
Wow - First post...
Randomly pressing keys for a living...
This allows fast and anonymous terrorism! ;)
(Check out that Microsoft Says piracy is Terrorism -thingie.)
FP? or not?
I hope this is better now than when I used it last.
Anonyous First Post.
How could I pass it up?
warez warez anonymous warez. great. can i be caught using freenet?
Are we at War yet?
Look, can someone just email me when it starts. I'll be sleeping until then. Cheers.
The problem is whether the users can use it as easily as other comparable software. i.e. if you want to get more users, you have to have more files in your network, if you want more files, you need to get more simple-minded users, and if you want to get more simple-minded users, keep the interface easy and clean.
my 0.02
Wouldn't combining Project Gutenberg's freely available texts with Freenet's distributed storage be a great enhancement for both projects? Especially now that Freenet is stable enough to be considered viable for Gutenberg's purposes...
For geek dads: Contraction Timer
'ta
Seems to me that a secure, distributed, encrypted P2P system could be used by (insert dramatic music) terrorists!
"It was a summer's tale: Just a boy, his Linux, and a head full of dreams..."
People can joke all they want about downloading their porn or grabbing music and videos anonymously. The biggest boon of Freenet, not to mention other efforts an anonymous P2P, is for people in countries with oppressive regimes. Information may want to be free, but so do people. What's more important, downloading the latest pop music in MP3 format, or free (as in 'I won't get shot for this') speech?
File sharing clients don't get Slashdotted... they just give an error saying "More download sources required".
I think there are really only 3 pivotal factors for any P2P.
1)Speed: If you have a gazillion files but it take 4 hours to get an mp3, no one will use it.
2)Content: I can go to kazaa and find music, software, video's, pictures, basically, everything. If a user has to use 3 different P2P engines to get what they want, it wont last.
3)Searchable: If it's a pain to find the files you are looking for then you wont use it, and so fewer files will be available, and more people will end up dropping it due to content.
Speeds seem to be terrible on all of the services I've used. Kazaa (Kazaalite) has the ability to download from multiple users, making up for that a little bit. I'm curious what speeds freenet can pull down from individual users. I've been thinking that those terrible speeds might just be from restrictive caps that ISP's might be placing on the P2P popular ports.
The World War III will begin in less than 48 hours and we are talking about Freenet!
hell! GET SOME PRIORITIES!!
I know I see 300k/sec downloads on emule, and I find just about anything I'm looking for on it.
Why is freenet better than edonkey?
Whoah, tell me if it's just be but 100K/second is really really slow. At that rate a 200MB file will take a half hour to download. You're going to have to compete with the 800K-1MB speeds of other networks if you want to stand a chance.
I tried freenet once, and there's something else about it. I can't figure out how to use it! It doesn't have its own search box or anything, I was supposed to use the web browser and visit sites using freenet:// instead of http://. But there was no obvious intuitive way to search freenet. When there is, give me a call.
I do like the anonymousness however.
As it is fundamentally web based, freenet represents the a system where being able to publish is not dependedent on being able to buy server space. This represents a very real democratisation of the net ($10 a month is a lot more in Asia), and the totally anonimous nature of the ntwork allows for much freer political speech.
It is also worth noting that it automatically spreads frequently requested data across the network, meaning no more slashdot effect. This also makes for a more effecient network, as data is stored near to you.
You want to support the freedom of code? Get freenet and do your bit.
"To any truly impartial person, it would be obvious that I am right."
Distruibuted Mirror Project
Mouse powered Chips, Open source Processors and Lego
There are copies of every Enterprise episode released on Freenet as well as sites about magic.
I have left it running for weeks and never notice the hits on it from other users. As for downloading files, it is very efficient as long as you have a large upstream. Remember that you are sending data out while downloading because the overhead with communications is very high.
Page insertions are the biggest problems now. Frost has taken care of this problem, but it is still slow to get anything on the network.
This is the type of setup we need for the future. I use it everyday.
Speeds seem to be terrible on all of the services I've used. Kazaa (Kazaalite) has the ability to download from multiple users, making up for that a little bit.
Applications such as Kazaa let you configure how many uploads you accept at the same time, and you can cap the upload speed as well.
The faster p2p application I know was probably Audiogalaxy, where you could not cap the speed, and if you wanted to be able to download 10 tracks simultaneously, you had to allow 10 simultaneous uploads as well. Also, it would try and connect you with the user who you could get the fastest download from.
The bandwagon rolls on though. The only way to stop P2P IMO is go after the ISP's. I'm no sysadmin, but I'm sure it would be possible for block certain ports, report heavy downloaders etc. At the moment nobody dare do this for fear of a mass exodus of customers, but if the law made sure that all of these ISP's had to comply, I'm sure they alone would be able to stop the spread. How feasible is it for the ISP's to put barriers in place?
Vacancy for signature. Apply within.
[insert the usual quips about NSA backdoors], but still...
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url= /library/en-us/p2psdk/p2p/portal.asp
- 4r0g
I hope it has just as much pr0n!!!
YOU FAIL IT!
Maybe someone can post the client on a mirror and we the project can share their site through P2P?
:0)
Oh wait no, it's just sourceforge being slow. Must be the engine they use
You can jump straight to the fast SourceForge download site here: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group _id=978&release_id=147101
Orange
Yes, it was released a week ago, shortly after that, a story was posted on kuro5hin.org.
Has SlashDot become so secondary??
(btw, I've been running freenet for a month now and transfers rarely go beyond 10kb/s, that is, if they even finish. The dev that thought programming freenet in JAVA(TM) would be a good idea needs to be shot.)
Software bug bites US military
Military computers have been attacked via the flaw
Computer vandals have been exploiting a flaw in Microsoft's Windows 2000 operating system even before the software giant warned people of its existence.
A server operated by the US Army has already been attacked via the security hole.
If successfully exploited the loophole can give attackers control over a target machine.
In an advisory, Microsoft called the flaw "critical" and has been telling customers to patch their computers in case they fall victim.
Bad bug
The flaw is present in servers running Windows 2000, up to and including service pack 3, and version 5.0 of Microsoft's Internet Information Server (IIS) software.
It arises because of Microsoft's implementation of a program called WebDAV that lets different people remotely manage what is on a net server.
Using a cleverly crafted HTTP request an attacker could exploit the flaw to gain control of a server and either crash it or make it run programs of their choice.
Microsoft has issued an advisory about the flaw, calling it "critical" and said an attacker that successfully exploited it could gain "complete control" over a machine.
The software company has also provided a patch to close the loophole as well as other tools to help customers protect themselves against attack.
Often there is a hiatus between the discovery of a flaw in software and its active exploitation by vandals.
However, in this case at least one net server has been attacked via the WebDAV loophole before security advisories have been issued.
The server, belonging to the US Army, was successfully attacked in early March. No serious damage was done because it was not connected to any important systems. Once patched it was attacked again.
Microsoft has reportedly spent time talking to customers warning them to take action over the flaw.
Security firm ISS has also reported seeing isolated attacks carried out using the WebDAV flaw.
YOU FAIL IT!
What the hell is the point in defining an acronym, and then never using it in the rest of your text? Why even bother doing it? It's completely pointless, and really annoying. Stop it for fuck sake.
</rant>
Class, can anyone think of why this might be helpful RIGHT NOW?
Also, check out Freeweb. Easy Freenet Web publishing. Servereless. Beautiful. Windoze-only, but nice for daily news sites. Used to run one back in Freenet 0.3.9.
You are not the customer.
The reason I haven't tried it yet is that it's written fully in Java. Nothing wrong with that, of course, except I can't afford to overload my Pentium II 333 Mhz box anymore. Already running a webserver on it. But I'll be sure to give it a go when I get more hardware.
It can't be used practically. If you want to upload something important, chances are you'll be found out and shot before it gets on freenet. that is, assuming java doesn't return some error like NullExeptionPointer.
There is another problem, if you don't tell anyone the key, evetually it will just disappear. And since there is no search engine, this is even worse.
It's great for kiddie porn tho, just download the cryroom file.
Here is the full text of Robin Cook's resignation speech in the House of Commons, which won applause from some backbenchers in unprecedented Commons scenes.
This is the first time for 20 years that I have addressed the House from the back benches.
I must confess that I had forgotten how much better the view is from here.
None of those 20 years were more enjoyable or more rewarding than the past two, in which I have had the immense privilege of serving this House as Leader of the House, which were made all the more enjoyable, Mr Speaker, by the opportunity of working closely with you.
It was frequently the necessity for me as Leader of the House to talk my way out of accusations that a statement had been preceded by a press interview.
On this occasion I can say with complete confidence that no press interview has been given before this statement.
I have chosen to address the House first on why I cannot support a war without international agreement or domestic support.
The present Prime Minister is the most successful leader of the Labour party in my lifetime.
I hope that he will continue to be the leader of our party, and I hope that he will continue to be successful. I have no sympathy with, and I will give no comfort to, those who want to use this crisis to displace him.
I applaud the heroic efforts that the prime minister has made in trying to secure a second resolution.
I do not think that anybody could have done better than the foreign secretary in working to get support for a second resolution within the Security Council.
But the very intensity of those attempts underlines how important it was to succeed.
Now that those attempts have failed, we cannot pretend that getting a second resolution was of no importance.
France has been at the receiving end of bucket loads of commentary in recent days.
It is not France alone that wants more time for inspections. Germany wants more time for inspections; Russia wants more time for inspections; indeed, at no time have we signed up even the minimum necessary to carry a second resolution.
We delude ourselves if we think that the degree of international hostility is all the result of President Chirac.
The reality is that Britain is being asked to embark on a war without agreement in any of the international bodies of which we are a leading partner - not NATO, not the European Union and, now, not the Security Council.
To end up in such diplomatic weakness is a serious reverse.
Only a year ago, we and the United States were part of a coalition against terrorism that was wider and more diverse than I would ever have imagined possible.
History will be astonished at the diplomatic miscalculations that led so quickly to the disintegration of that powerful coalition.
The US can afford to go it alone, but Britain is not a superpower.
Our interests are best protected not by unilateral action but by multilateral agreement and a world order governed by rules.
Yet tonight the international partnerships most important to us are weakened: the European Union is divided; the Security Council is in stalemate.
Those are heavy casualties of a war in which a shot has yet to be fired.
I have heard some parallels between military action in these circumstances and the military action that we took in Kosovo. There was no doubt about the multilateral support that we had for the action that we took in Kosovo.
It was supported by NATO; it was supported by the European Union; it was supported by every single one of the seven neighbours in the region. France and Germany were our active allies.
It is precisely because we have none of that support in this case that it was all the more important to get agreement in the Security Council as the last hope of demonstrating international agreement.
The legal basis for our action in Kosovo was the need to respond to an urgent and compelling humanitarian c
And all French people. Particularly goatse.cx. You may not be aware of it, but he is French!
Please, do not visit any goatse.cx web sites. If you are a sick individual, consider visiting tubgirl or dms100
Thank you for doing your patriotic duty.
Usability, ive never used freenet before so im probably missing something, but i installed it(on windows) and cant for the life of me figure out how to search for something. so bottom line im uninstalling it as soon as i post this. i do consider myself a geek but the interface for this program better change dramatically if they want more users. people want a program that can install and find a simple easy to understand interface. they dont want to have to read READMEs and such.
Have any of you actually used Freenet ? It's a mass of broken links (or perhaps they would have arrived eventually - I only waited an hour).
More importantly, have any of you clowns actually read the Freenet specifications ? There's no anonymity in it - there's just hiding of the information needed to perform the most direct, trivial attacks. Do you really think a governmental or corporate adversary couldn't do better than that ?
The most up to date version of the Java FEC library can be found here.
Just as soon as New York melts down the Statue Of Liberty, and you replay the War of Independce without the support of France. Then we'll start talking about being patriotic.
I wonder if anyone has done a survey to see how much child porn is on freenet? I am not game to, because AFAIK you can be thrown in jail just for possesing child porn!
But freenet is not alone. I know that there is some child porn on KaZaA. Heh, don't you love porn that will not allow previews(.avi files), you have to wait until the entire file is downloaded, that turn out to be child porn. Quick view and then delete is their fate.
We need to put Freenet through the Slashdot challenge!
Freenet can put a website up and we see if we can bring it to its knees! I say if it can take it then it's a viable technology. Maybe this will be a new yardstick of technological feasibility.
What's a sig?
What it is about is the ability to store anything, particularly items that may give the holder problems, like the film of a cop selling drugs to kids.
It isn't eDonkey, it isnt Kazzaa. With both of these systems you know what you are sharing, with Freenet you don't. With traditional P2P, MPAA can go round logging who is sharing LOTR and send them DMCA cease and desist notices. If you are living in Farkistan, you can publish your videos of police executions without fear that the police can track you down. Once you have loaded a file on the net with freenet, you don't know where it is, and neither does anyone else until they are given a hash key.
You just have some file storage assigned to the network which is browsable by a hash key through your local web browser. Freenet appears as localhost:8888 to your browser so you can access with a locked-down Mozilla or even IE (less wise because of the holes). People can know that you are running Freenet, but that is all (assuming you clear browser caches and so on).
The downside is because you can share anything anonymously, people do. However, unless someone is prepared to publish a reference to young Britney and her dog, nobody is going to find it.
The curious thing is that if you have a fairly static IP and are contributing space to the net, you have no idea what is stored on your machine. It could be human rights info, it could be copyright material, it could be very illegal pornography. You just don't know.
Also it seems to take a long time to get into the network. It is painfully slow to start and until it starts caching information locally, a letter may be faster.
You may not be aware of it, but he is French!
Isn't his hole smaller than average in France?
I think people are missing the point. AFAIK, Freenet is not supposed to be an alternative whizzy network for general use from which people should expect fast downloads and response times, and be able to download MP3s or warez or whatever. It's mostly to support free speech. I'm sure that activist in China is not just going to give up because it took them 10 seconds to upload instead of 1...when the alternative is not being able to speak at all.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Where the hell do you live? 100k/s in SLOOOOW.
If I get below 300k/s it is slow, normally I get 1Mbit/s+ on other P2P networks with T3.
how do you like knowing linux is used by the army to kill children?
I'd like to use freenet, but I can't. I can't risk the possibility, however remote, of having child porn cached on my computer. I have too much to lose.
The faster p2p application I know was probably Audiogalaxy, where you could not cap the speed, and if you wanted to be able to download 10 tracks simultaneously, you had to allow 10 simultaneous uploads as well. Also, it would try and connect you with the user who you could get the fastest download from.
I really liked AudioGalaxy. I ran the client on my headless Linux box (file server), but used the web site on my Windows box, or whatever machine I wanted to. They were all behind the same NAT, so the outside sees it as the same machine. Worked rather well, until suddenly they stopped carrying any real content.
I hated Napster (poorly written interface), but it did the job. Then I discovered Scour Exchange, which was a lot nicer, but then it was shut down. AudioGalaxy was the best, and of course that is no longer. Limewire (Gnutella?) didn't seem to have any files I was looking for last time I tried it. Now it's binary newsgroups and Kazaalite...
I'll have to give Freenet a try today... unless the record labels want to give me a way to try stuff out before I buy it...
NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
One of the reasons most people hate Americans so much is their assumption that everyone else on the internet / who speaks english, is American. Well, sonny, Slashdot is a global community, and in case you hadn't noticed, the US is pretty much the only country where anything like a majority backs attacking Iraq now. Who sold Saddam the anthrax in the first place? Who funded, armed and trained Bin Laden? and Noriega,....
> Indicators, they are your friends! >
Freenet is finally becoming mature and stable, this is very very good news.
Now its time for people like us to go to freenet and put linux sites, slashdot type sites, and maybe some hacker/geek culture to freenet.
Freenet shouldnt be just about porn and warez because it will be very easy to outlaw it, what we need to do is fill freenet up with useful content for the masses, maybe put WikiPedia type stuff in freenet.
Its time to make some sites, specifically its time to bring back the hacker/geek culture that was lost, I'd like to see some hacker sites return, some chatrooms, etc etc
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
"that somehow restricts the content shared to legitimate project material" - that is precisely what freenet is set up *against*. It is a necessary condition of its usefulness that it be able to store information that is illegal in at least some jurisdictions. Critiques of repressive governments and child pornography are both illegal in some areas of the world and legal in others. It would be good if I could decide which of those I host on my machine - here in the US, possession of child porn is a crime, and a host could theoretically be prosecuted even if the content was unknown to the host.
Steve Cline http://www.clines.org, http://www.objectbap.com
Its not about porn or music, I want to see hacker sites return. Remember all the hacking sites which people tried to ban, I want to see them come back, I want to see culture return to the internet besides corperate culture.
We need to take advantage of freenet to make lots and lots of websites, we have unlimited storage space, if it becomes fast enough speed wont be a problem, we can put chatrooms in freenet too, this can really work.
We just need to make sites, and not just porn and warez sites, but all kinds of sites, political sites, geek sites, gaming sites, etc.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
The gun can be used for bad things too, whats your point? The internet is here, deal with it.
As long as we build alot of useful good sites into freenet, freenet will do fine, when we let the warez and mp3 guys make all the popular sites freenet might be attacked.
So what you have to do is build sites which people want to see besides mp3, porn and warez.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
You cant really block it, anyone with a java compiler can compile the code.
Look I'n not even caring about China, I care about USA, what about our freedom of speech? who gives a fuck about China, This protects our freedom of speech just as much.
Its debateable but sharing music, porn, or warez is a form of speech because you are sharing 1s and 0s.
Its debateable or questionable censored speech but its speech, talking about DCESS or whatever, and releasing exploits to the masses is speech, but you go to jail for that.
So we dont have true freedom of speech. Freenet gives us true freedom of speech. Censorship becomes difficult and eventually impossible if enouggh people use freenet.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
not many replies to this article and i've already seen some good ideas for expanding freenet's usability. if anyone is truly interested in freenet DO SOMETHING FOR IT RIGHT NOW. any non-porn content is good content.
Try posting the source code to microsoft windows on the regular internet, see what happens. Hell just post an exploit for Microsoft windows and see what happens.
News? our news is limited, we cant talk about certain questionable subjects without being labaled communist, socialist, liberal, or something, you cant talk about hacking anymore, when I was growing up on the net, I remember hacker sites were everywhere, we had chatrooms and everything, a whole culture, and now its gone.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
That's why we have to play policeman to the world, keeping things orderly.
That's why we can refer to other countries as "criminals" now when they don't submit to our will. There's no mythical "sovereignty" anymore.
The sooner you realize this FACT , the less you'll get your asses kicked.
Freenet search engines do exist, Freenet is like the early world wide web and it might someday replace the world wide web, if our gov censors the web to death.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
They were just looking for a way to stick it to England.
Allthough the French women did spread it far and wide for the GIs that liberated Paris.
Theres always going to be child porn on freenet, at least the people arent profiting from it, you cant stop child porn being shared the only thing you can do is remove incentive to make the porn.
Porn thats on freenet is porn thats not sold, which means the porn industry loses money and has less incentive to make it.
I dont see how freenet is doing any harm, child porn was on the web making pedophiles and molestors millions of dollars, and now its on kazaa and freenet, they wont make a dime.
By removing it from freenet and kazaa what you are doing is saving the child porn industry, this allows more kids to get hurt and abused for profit.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Is a way to pirate software and distribute child porno.
While you can put public domain texts on freenet -- you can also do that on the web without any fear of persecution.
The only people with a real need to use an anonymous medium for communication are criminals and political dissidents. Since there isn't political oppression in most nations with unencumbered internet access, freenet will never be a repository of literature and information.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
- Castro! - because he's a anti-communist baseball fan! (WHOOPS!)
- Manuel Noriega! - because he's anti-communist!
- Augusto Pinochet! - because he's anti-communist!
- The SHAW of Iran! - because he's anti-communist!
- Saddam Hussein! - Because he's the anti-ayatolla!
- Ferdinand Marcos! - because's he's anti-communist!
- Osama bin Laden and the Taliban! - because they're anti-communist!
YAY! Interfering in the affairs of sovereign nations has worked out so well for the U.S and the world! Let's keep doing what works!Even if Nambla is hosting a forum on your PC, why should you be raided? they have the right to host a forum, as long as they dont do anything illegal they can talk about molesting kids and so on.
Speech is speech, you cannot arrest people for that. I dont agree with their speech, I also dont agree with the KKK, the Nazis, and Al Qaeda, but if we are supposed to be all about freedom it has to be freedom for everyone, not just freedom for "good" people.
Its all or nothing, we either support freedom, or we support censorship, theres no in between.
Illegal pornography is against freedom of speech, its censorship, I'm not a fan of kiddie porn, but kiddie porn itself is not a crime, the crime is in the act of creating that porn, and the act of buying that porn.
When you buy it you support its creation, when you make it you abuse a kid, so yes its fair to outlaw buying and selling kiddie porn.
Viewing it however should not be a crime, what right does anyone have to say that you cant view something? No money is being made, no ones being harmed, in fact the guy who created the porn who harmed the child is not making a penny so you have the moral arguement on your side in saying freenet robs the kiddie porn industry just like it robs the RIAA and music industries.
People who may have purchased kiddie porn from their usual sources for insane amounts of money now have no reason to buy it, and theres no incentive to keep producing it, or at least thats the arguement the RIAA makes.
This wont stop kiddie porn, just like not buying music from record companies wont stop music from being created, but what it will do is it will kill the industry, anyone who wants to sell kiddie porn will have to sell direct and they will get caught immediately.
Musicians will still be able to sell music, they will just have to sell direct to their fans.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
for Ad-free slashdot?
Choose. If you want to censor the KKK you dont support free speech.
I cant stand the KKK, and I cant stand kiddie porn, but they do have the right to talk about hate and kiddie porn.
As long as this never turns into action, its just a bunch of 1s and 0s, speech.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I'm getting 40 Mbit/sec to someone at 127.0.0.1...
There are certainly legal consequences.
Under English common law (the foundation of the legal system of the UK, the Commonwealth, and the USA), a conviction for almost any crime requires proof of "mens rea", or intent. That's why legal codes follow the formula "a person who knowingly $DOESTHIS commits $CRIME". There exist "strict liability" crimes that do not require intent, but none of those can result in imprisonment.
Will I retire or break 10K?
In Soviet Russia, net frees YOU!
I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
You've probably heard of this, but you didn't mention it. Definetly try out edonkey2k. mldonkey on your linux box, and the windows client to control it (I presume some of the windows clients are decent, don't have a machine to test them), and sharereactor.com to get the list of stuff to download. It seems to be an excellent way to get almost anything, from episodes of 24 or buffy that I missed, to beos software (that I paid for! but lost my original copy), to live dave matthews band.
Its not freedom of speech when someone gets hurt.
No one gets hurt when you share child porn, because no ones buying or selling the child porn, no ones making money off of it, no ones being hurt, what you have here are a bunch of people who view censored materials which are censored for what reason? To keep the demand for child porn nice and high so the pedophiles can continue to make money selling it? Its like the drug trade,
When you make something hard to find you end up making it far more valueable, people kill for it, spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on it, and guys who create it now have incentive to create it, making child porn can make you a millionsare!
This is not what we want, why should we allow them to make money?
Inciting riots and advocating murder are one thing, viewing child porn is not advocating it, buying it is advocating it.
So would you rather they but it and support the industry, or view it and kill the industry?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Is JUST THINK OF THE CHILDREN! If we don't stop this program, they'll all end up in CHILD PR0N and BE SOLD AS SEX SLAVES!
oh, and some big corporations will lose a bunch of money.
BUT THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
Why should I argue rationally with someone being irrational? I'll just mock them instead.
called GNUnet
This is my before thought:
From what I remember... Freenet was too complicated for it to reach significant mass. Im not sure how many nodes are out there, but i would not think that there where more than ~1000 nodes before this last build. Maybe, I'll take a look at this one...
After thought comming soon!
Laws should be created to PROTECT people from each other.
Censoring Kiddie Porn from freenet will actually harm more kids than it will help. The more porn people can get for free the less porn they will pay for, no one really feels good about buying porn, no ones going to be like "hey this porn is good, let me go pay the creator of this" no, people take porn and only pay for it when they are desperate.
It makes plenty of since to go after porn sites on the web because they SELL kiddie porn, someones earning money to abuse kids and then selling the photos and movies, this SHOULD be illegal because someone is being harmed for cash.
Now, if these pictures are stolen from the site and placed on freenet and all over the P2Ps and people download and view it without payinng a dime, who is this hurting? The producer of the porn is the one losing money here, so why should we attack people who share porn for free? So the guy who makes the porn can continue to force people to buy it?
I dont get it.
If someone distributes music, record companies can say artists arent making money blah blah blah, they at least have some kinda arguement, artists do deserve to be paid.
But when its kiddie porn you cannot use that same arguement, if people are on kazaa sharing it, SOME guy who created that porn is making less money than they would have made,
This doesnt just go for kiddie porn but the whole porn industry, the more people who share porn for free, the less money made on it, the more the industry suffers, and then less porn is created.
The more you restrict porn, the more demand you create, and the more expensive it gets, and with this price being high, it causes whoevers making it to make more money.
So as far as the porn industry goes, you arent going to somehow rid the world of pedophiles, these people will always exist, the best you can do is remove their ability to make money off of it.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
What are the chances of a C or C++ implementation? I mean, how complicated could this thing be?
And regardless of if you know or not, you're still responsible, legally and/or criminally.
Really? I thought crimes required mens rea.
Will I retire or break 10K?
The most popular P2P application in Japan is called Winny and is built around Freenet. There's some english information about it here, as well as a translated client. The last time I tried, though, the translated client was an older version and I couldn't get it to connect, but the latest Japanese binary worked for me.
Whlie the concept is great, and the true reasons behind freenet is good, its future is susepct.
Its really easy just to block its usage by isps..
IE: dont rely on it as your only outlet for speech.. use it to supplement only.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
"Reliable downloading of files as large as 700MB from Freenet at average download rates as high as 100k/sec on a broadband internet connection are sighted[...]"
... is cited ..."
The verb should be IS because it is referring to 'downloading.' You wouldn't say "Reliable downloading are..."
And also, the term is "cited".
End result:
"Reliable downloading
Very few crimes have that requirement [i.e. "knowingly" language]
Then what is this in the Indiana Code?
Another example of "knowingly or intentionally" in Indiana law: the law banning Pokemon .
Will I retire or break 10K?
mod parent up.
But how would you put sites up and retain consistency
A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.
If the ISP's port filter Kazaa, you can easily change the port. If they filter heavy use, they will be filtering many legitamate users. If you content-filter, you filter out all of the legal content. You can filter out all inbound ports, but there are legitamate services that end-users setup (such as AIM).
ISP's can and do cut off users who use excessive bandwidth, or have thousands of open connections at once, but only when the health of the network is at stake. People run businesses out of their homes, upload / download collections of family photographs or MPEG's of home movies, businesses send 50 meg PDF spec sheets... Volume alone is not a sign of illegal activity. Perhaps their 2600 webserver was slashdotted.
Leaning on the ISP's is not a good solution. There is no current technical filter that isn't overly broad or trivial to get around.
The ______ Agenda
"...rates as high as 100k/sec on a broadband internet connection are sighted..."
Cited, not sighted. Think "Works Cited" versus "we sighted a boat off our stern".
Want to talk? ashaver AT pdx DOT edu
Freenet is not immune to traffic analyis if enough nodes are being observed. For this reason, a large percentage of Freenet nodes are probably being operated by organizations like the CIA and NSA. They can't see what's being sent but they can see who is sending data to whom. If it became too popular, then the CIA might be have trouble watching it because the percentage of nodes they run would be too low, but this is a long way from happening.
"Freenet is finally becoming mature and stable, this is very very good news."
"Now its time for people like us to go to freenet and put linux sites, slashdot type sites, and maybe some hacker/geek culture to freenet."
People like you just try and tell other people what they should do. How much time and effort have you put into the open source movement? How much code have you written? Bandwidth provided? Support offered? Funds raised?
"Freenet shouldnt be" blah blah blah...
Done anything yet?
"what we need to do is" yada yada yada...
You still here?
"fill freenet up with useful content for the masses"
Not smart people like you, just the masses.
"maybe put WikiPedia type stuff in freenet"
Would is "WikiPedia type stuff", apart from Wikipedia (something else you didn't contribute to).
"Its time to make some sites"
Lets see yours then?
"specifically its time to bring back the hacker/geek culture that was lost"
Lost to who? Were you part of it? How would you know, anyway?
"I'd like to see some hacker sites return, some chatrooms, etc etc"
But not enough to get off your ass and actually do it yourself.
Time to roll another joint and dream about what you would be doing if you weren't so stooooned, right?
In the USA, ignorance, although rampant, is not a viable excuse for a crime. It is unfortunate, but true. You don't have to know the speed limit nor how fast you were going in order to get a speeding ticket.
The truth doesn't care what I think.
It looks like freenet is coming along very nicely. One of the items high on my wishlist is the ability to run a node that is behind a firewall. Various p2p packages do this (e.g. kazaa, winmx). Perhaps the implementation of such would require the participation of a non-firewalled freenet node to route sessions, but that doesn't strike me as so bad. Having the ability to run from behind a firewall could dramatically increase the number of participating nodes.
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
Earlier Freenet was working fine, but now it has grindedto a halt. Has Freenet been Slashdotted?
Replace references to "anonymous medium" with "encryption" and "PGP" (or "GPG") and you'll see how stupid that statement really is.
Most people seem to misunderstand the point of Freenet. I think that is Freenet's biggest problem.
It is not intended to be a p2p file-sharing app. It is not intended to be an alternative to kazaa or gnutella or any of those apps. It is intended to be a replacement for the web. It is intended to be navigated by using a browser (like a web browser) that displays documents which contain links (hyperlinks) to other documents. That's why searching isn't a big deal. Searching is secondary; it's not the point of the network. Searching would ideally be implemented the same way it is on the real web: with a search engine like google that indexes everything and is itself just a Freenet document.
Nobody seems to understand this and that's where I think Freenet's biggest problem lies. Once people understand this they start to see the possibilites. Freenet content can't be shut down the way web sites can be. People can run "web sites" on Freenet without having to buy server space from anyone. There a lots of advantages over the conventional web. Ofcourse, there are problems too, but the possibilities definetly make it worthwhile to give it a shot and to try and make it work.
Aw crap, ninjas!
Freedom of speech is a boon to hatemongers but you have to break a few eggs eh?
Due process is a boon to terrorists but you have to break a few eggs eh?
Democracy is a boon to corrupt populist politicians but you have to break a few eggs eh?
Why are there so many people who say "freedom is a boon for criminals" lately?
-- Repeat with me: "There is no right to profits".
Remember that every document on Freenet is signed. So it is possible to get 'trust' on freenet and it can't be faked.
Osama Bin Laden, DO already have an freenet account. And he has published a few pages. I can't really remember it right now, I will post it when I find it again.
Freenet, a system for free exchange of information without centralized control, is great. But isn't it time someone did this for Instant Messaging?
This is important. Mod this up.
One fundamental problem with distributing Freenet from a website is that it creates a central point of failure. In the event that this website was shut-down it would seriously inhibit the deployment of the Freenet software. To address this issue, Freenet now includes the ability to self-propogate! Using Freenet's new "distribution node" functionality, you can send people a URL (through out-of-band means such as in your email signature) which will allow them to download and install Freenet directly from your node. Their version of Freenet will inherit your node's network knowledge eliminating any reliance on a centralized "bootstrapping" service.
Make an idiot proof software and they will make a better idiot.
But they'll never get moose and squirrel!
Moose: "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabit outta my hat."
Squirrel: "That trick never works!"
Lion: "Roar!"
Moose: "Ooohg, Don't know my own strenth."
Squirrel: "And now here's something you'll really like."
It will just take you 5 days to download one, but those no good IP Cops will never find me!
Freenet shouldnt be just about porn and warez because it will be very easy to outlaw it, what we need to do is fill freenet up with useful content for the masses....
Yeah. Not just for warez and porn. Freenet needs mp3's!
Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
If it was truly anonymous, how would files get transferred? TCP/IP hasn't changed has it?
Any port that exhibits any large amount of OUTGOING data ( all 'servers' are banned so only metered incoming is allowed ) is blocked, or service is simply cutoff, pending explanation by the customer.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
And I couldn't find shit on it. I search for common games and music files and it gave me some cryptic error. sucks.
Er, unless by propagating the stuff for free then you actually give people a method of developing their appetite. Then once they run out of, or just don't feel like searching for, the free stuff they turn to PPV.
Bad analogy I know, but would handing out free drugs make people buy less and put the pushers out of business? It's a thought I had myself some time ago, but in the long run I don't think so. there's just be more addicts out there.
Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
...is if Freenet can be operated from behind a firewall, since if not, it is not of use for me, or atleast I will not be able to use it. Anyway It'd be nice if it had some sort of proxy capabilities.
- Voice of Ambience -
- Voice of Ambience -
This one's better, no klunky Java.. My 400MHz super duper speedy machine might even run it :)
I might have to call my isp about the fw stuff though...
- Voice of Ambience -
- Voice of Ambience -
no one really feels good about buying porn, no ones going to be like "hey this porn is good, let me go pay the creator of this"
Um, wrong. I have no problem paying for porn. I have more respect for the adult industry than I have for a lot of "legitimate" industries.
However, if you're talking strictly about kiddie porn here, you're still wrong. I don't think there's any place for kiddie porn anywhere. It shouldn't be condoned in any manner, whether it's being produced or consumed. People who are getting kiddie porn maybe shouldn't be prosecuted the same way as those creating it, but neither should they be totally ignored. If anything, someone who specifically needs kiddie porn instead of adult porn probably needs professional help.
I find it hard to believe that "the true test" of Freedom of Speech means tolerating child porn.
I think it's pretty reasonable. They take an absolute position of freedom of speech, including allowing things like libel to be placed on Freenet.
And it's technically silly to even care. The point of Freenet is that it treats all data the same, and only cares about popularity. Is chunk of data id # af325a15b7791fc13b really popular? Then regardless of the content, it's going to spread around. Freenet tries to reduce network load, and ignores artifical attempts to prevent it from doing so.
In essence, it enforces the much-talked-about common carrier status on everyone. No one knows what's passing through their computer, because it just doesn't matter. It's data, someone wants it, and caching it gets it to them more efficiently.
I find it vaguely odd that you, a network engineer, are unable to isolate the transmission of data from attempts to censor it. Do you believe that the networks you build aren't used for things that you would consider immoral?
Freenet, by virtue of some features of it and its popularity, provide some services that are unavailable elsewhere. There are few other places that you can get really truly anonymous email that you can *trust* to be anonymous.
Actually, I find Freenet a good example of the simple impracticality of attempting to censor data today, with the ease of transmission and storage available. I'll be amazed if any broad class of data can be censored.
Finally, a comment on your morality complaint. You find child pornography distasteful, and want to choose not to serve it. That's fine. However, the common condemnation of child pornography is based more upon attempts to prevent violation of a particular social code than out of interest for children's welfare (contrast this with actual sex with children, which certainly does have potentially severe negative physical effects). There are some tribes in New Zealand and Africa that do not wear clothing (well, aside from some ornamentation). If a photographer went there and took pictures (ignoring for a moment whether the tribals would have any issues with the picture-taking itself), these people wouldn't really think anything of being seen in the nude. The photographer may well have been producing material designed to "incite lust", which would make said material pornography. However, to argue that there is any form of damage being caused to the subject is ludicrous. Now, in the United States and much of the world, Victorian ethics have had an enormous impact. There's a general nudity taboo, and the concept of child pornography is generally unaccepted. However, that is very much a product of the society, an artifact of religious and social pressures, not an obviously beneficial thing.
Actually, while I'm complaining about common views of child pornography, how well do your views on it approximate the actual, legally enforced definition used in the United States? People very frequently claim that they find child pornography utterly repulsive. And yet, legally, "child pornography" includes people that most would hardly consider children. Would a nude seventeen year old be repulsive, whereas suddenly an eighteen year old not be?
I really shouldn't have to put this disclaimer here, but child pornography is so commonly disliked that it's necessary to be taken seriously. I don't find child pornography appealing, though I don't have this ridiculously overblown hatred of it and the people involved in its production that many people culture. There's also a not unreasonable chance that I'd find a nude seventeen-year-old to be attractive, so I'd enjoy some of the material that the US has made illegal.
Essentially, I'd say that someone taking nude pictures of an American child is doing about the same thing as feeding beef to a Hindu child or pork to a Jewish child. They're violating social norms, and probably piss off some people, but I don't see a
May we never see th
So what you are saying is that in fact there should be no such thing as annonymous free speech?
Of course power to convey ideas, thoughts, or images annonymously and freely can be abused. There is no questioning that.
The only way to combat it would be not to support any project or means of communication which doesnt engage in censorship - which you seem to have chosen.
You either agree with 100% free speech - and accept its inherent scope for abuse and problems, or you believe human communication should be censored. The "I agree with free speech as long as it doesnt involve..." approach is *NOT* freedom - simply because it indicates some entity or organisation must proccess and control what is said.
Isn't there a GNU compiler for java? Why doesn't the developers of java programs mention this ?
If you want to see real speed in a interperated compiled language try xbasic
We shouldn't need to buy a new computer just to run a computer language.
The biggest value of freenet is that if 10 million people want to download a 50MB mpeg video I made from off my cable modem at the same time .... They can do it!
If 20 million in the USA want to /. a low speed internet site in europe - they can do it!! and they can do it without downloading the same file across the atlantic 20 million times. Thank You!
No longer do you need a server room with OC48 connections and hundreds of servers running in parallel to serve up urestricted ammounts of content. No longer is the local artist limited by not being able to have a disney-world sized data center.
Freenet not only provides a nice side effect of enhancing privacy, but it is great for providing a smooth transition to the next generation of internet which most people now agree is moving toward a wireless mesh topology. If each one of these meshes also has a reasonable size data cache, the usefullness will be incredible.
That was a clueless answer, I sincerely hope you're only pretending to be a lawyer. I dont know what the full position is under the medieval criminal laws of the US but under most other common law jurisdiction mens rea remains pivotal, mercifully.
The reason for criminal intent being introduced in criminal jurisprudence is precisely to avoid the horrifying consequences people have mentioned in this thread. At one time men rea was not a legal requirement - in the middle ages appropriately. It was introduced when people started getting hung for eating venison they had unwittingly bought from others who had poached it from the king. It was said there needed to be a moral failure also: a guilty intention as well as a guilty act (the actus reus).
Because it makes criminal convictions harder to obtain it is a principle that is the subject of erosion where there are countervailing issues of moral panic such as, well, KP drugs (and soon terrorism no doubt). At the other extreme where the consequences of a conviction are not serious - such as safe food handling in restaurants - there is also a trend to reduce the need for mens reas and create so called strict liability offences since these become easier to prosecute without making convictions offensive.
In most parts of the World, including the US I suspect, you would need to demonstrate a knowing sharing of KP . Unwitting participation in sharing KP merely by running a freenet node not would not make one guilty.
-he who laughs last, is a bit slow.
journal
"Sighted"?!?
The word here is "cited". Not "sighted" not "sited" either.
cite
tr.v. cited, citing, cites
1: To quote as an authority or example.
2: To mention or bring forward as support, illustration, or proof: cited several instances of insubordinate behavior.
3:
a: To commend officially for meritorious action in military service.
b: To honor formally.
4: To summon before a court of law.
I know spelling flames are considered rude in Slashdot culture, but this is not just misspelled, it is the wrong word.
"How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
A 200MB file takes more than an half hour to download at 100KByte/s
And my cable provider gives me 10Mbit/10Mbit download/upload
Isn't the canonical slashdot stance against the RIAA that it DOESN'T harm music sales but encourages them?
So think again what the effect of photos of actual abducted children being abused will when made available to paedophiles?
Perhaps it will increase sales?
Limewire and Kazaaa are both Java apps too, and they run fine on an old, slow box -- as long as you have enough RAM. If you're stuck with 128MB RAM and you're running Linux, just switch to a lightweight window manager like Ice and have at it.
The node distribution facility
;)
http://194.236.28.174:8891/RK4fFpIZzx4/
I have put up 100 nodes for download there
I figured I may as well use that as the subject line, since that's all that's really being discussed.
Freenet, according to their website, works somewhat like this. I want file XYZ. I search for file XYZ. Freenet brings all 68 parts of X from node 1, 13 parts of Y from node two, the other 13 parts of Y from node three, and the rest of the file comes from node four, five, six, seven, and twelve.
The guilty party is the person that's got file XYZ. The guilty party is the person who *requested* file XYZ. You may or may not have had part of file Z, You don't know, the people up and down stream from you don't know, and the person requesting the file doesn't know.
Child Pornongraphy is reprehensable. Duh. But using it as an argument against freenet is like using the "it's for the children" to ban guns and remove them from every house that owns one.
Anonymity comes with a cost. So does freedom. The price of being able to write a letter to the editor about the 2000 election is seeing that the letter next to yours is from the Grand Wizard of the KKK. The price of seeing the Rodney King video on a cheesy fox special is the knowledge that someone, somewhere is being exploited and it's on video tape.
1984 isn't worth fearing in this society. Farenheit 451 is.
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
Freenet is coping admirably with the slashdotting, my node is only 31% loaded, and that is while downloading a 150MB file from Freenet (which I am getting at 50k/sec!).
People dont feel good about buying Porn, they feel embarrassed.
People feel good about owning a CD and would brag about how much music they buy.
Its not the same, Just like its not cool to buy cheap sneakers, you have to get the name brands, its the same thing.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
"developing their appetite"
appetites arent developed, you have it when you look for it in the first place. You want to see kiddie porn meaning you already have that fetish, its not something you someday just discover after seeing a picture of a naked kid.
So the whole develop their appetite garbage is just that. Just like its garbage to think if I play shitty music in your ear enough that I can be developing your appetite, you like it or you dont. People who like kiddie porn, will imagine it in their heads if they cant find it, they might draw pictures of it, read stories (stories about it are perfectly legal so why not images?)
You cannot make thought a crime, and you cannot control thought by restricting images or by showing them, you cannot develop a pervert.
I've seen some sick scat porn, and theres no way in hell I'd even imagine something like that, in fact it grosses me out, someone else might see it and be turned on, thats just them, you dont blame the porn.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Thought crimes? You agree with that? Fuck the law,this is about morality, not law.
You are right it is illegal, but stuff like freenet would not have to be built if the thought police werent takingg the censorship idea overboard to the point of saying you cannot even LOOK at something.
Thats overboard. By the way, no one knows who owns the speech because no one knows who originally published it, the speech could be considered yours however if you dont know its yours they cannot put you in prison.
You have to willingly distirbute kiddie porn to go to jail, you have to actually know you have it.
If not, well then I can put anyone I want in jail by putting some drugs in their pocket and calling the cops.
I can just wait for you to leave your jacket, plant some drugs or some other illegal material in it, and then call the police.
no, its not as simple as planting something on someone, it has to be proven that its you who owned it, if evidence says someone planted it, well thats the same way OJ got away with murder, because police were stupid and planted some gloves there.
You see, when you cannot trace the evidence back how do you have a case? Theres a jury who has to look at this. Theres a judge, its not just some law saying you go to jail, no, you are innocent until proven guilty and if not, I'm leavinng USA.
IF they can start a witch hunt with Mp3s and Kiddie porn why stay here? Anyone can say you have some illegal stuff on your computer and put you in jail? bullshit, hell I could hack into someones computer and put it there just so I can put them in prison! Hey thats a new way of hacking, I can really fuck my enemies up when I get them arrested and put in prison for 10 years for something they didnt even do.
What if someone wrote a virus which plants kiddie porn on random computers? or a worm? You just dont get it, you cannot arrest a person for that. The best the gov could do is label freenet a virus.
Should the people whos computers were used to take out other computers in those internet attacks be locked up in jail as if they did it? No the investigators try to trace back to the people who created it, so expect ian clarke to go to jail before you do.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Theres less children being abused because kiddie porn is no longer as profitable, so how would this hurt the children? Are you telling me in countries where kiddie porn is legal to make and they pay kids to make this porn, that by pirating their work and keeping them from being paid that its hurting them?
Thats like saying "Buy from prostitutes, they have families to support"
You are really that stupid that you dont understand the economics behind this arguement??/
" You are saying that it's acceptable to abduct or illegally buy children, beat them, rape them, photograph/film it, and distribute it to other sick pervs as long as you're not doing it for cash."
Wrong, I'm not saying its ok to CREATE KIDDIE PORN you dumbass, I'm saying its ok to distribute it if someone else already created it.
Its not harming anyone to VIEW it. It harms people to buy it and create an economy for it, and it harms people to actually publish it, but if its already on the internet, if someone already published it, why should innocent people be put in jail just for viewing it, as if they raped the kid?
Its like blaming mc donalds for being fat, you blame the people who create the kiddie porn, lock up the rapists.
But why kill freedom of speech on the internet as if thats somehow going to stop kids from being raped? It will cause more kids to be raped, the more you restrict kiddie porn, the more people are willing to pay for it, and the more kids are abused to produce it.
Its a business, just like drug dealing is a business, do you think people sell drugs for fun? People sell drugs for money, if all drugs were free and there were endless supply, well there would be no people being killed over it, and no one would be harmed, people who want to get high will get high if its legal or illegal, same with kiddie porn, you cannot outlaw thoughts only actions, I'm worried about actions and if you look at what I said, by killing all economic benefits it reduces actions, it doesnt change peoples thoughts because thats impossible and censorship does not change thought, it just makes people hide them.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Theres a select amount of people who want child porn and they will get it, Its not worth us sacraficing our freedom of speech.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Its legal to put upskirt pictures of women on the net.
"But the easy availability of this material inspires the creation of yet more child pornography, meaning that the practice will expand."
Please back this up with facts. Theres snuff films availble on the net too, why arent there more serial killers?
"The photos may occasionally help track down a child pornographer. Certainly it's easier for the activity to come to the attention of the authorities if that is so.
That is, until you put it into Freenet, where it is essentially impossible to track where the material is coming from over the Net. The details in the photos may help narrow down the location, but only if the pornographer is stupid enough to let unique features show up in the distributed versions. One basement looks pretty much like any other basement."
Its not about tracking the pictures, its about stopping the pictures from being produced.
You can never trade back child porn if its done in Europe and even if you do trace back its legal to make it in Europe, so why should Europeans be profiting on Child porn?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
however this is not true, US child pr0n laws are quite nasty... It is illegal if a technician after 300 hrs uncovers child porn on a long over written area of the hard drive (the equivalant of piecing together trash you've set on fire, but not spread at 15 different parts of the world)
It is illegal even if you didn't know it was there, (if that pop up is kiddie porn and it saved in your cache there is a good chance someone someday might be able to get it back and use it against you)
Haven't you learned now a days its "your guilty until proven innocent" ?
Ramdisk?
" I don't want my node to be used to harbor kiddie porn, offensive content or terrorism. What can I do?
The true test of someone who claims to believe in Freedom of Speech is whether they tolerate speech which they disagree with, or even find disgusting. If this is not acceptable to you, you should not run a Freenet node."
The basis of freenet is that you do not *know* what is in your freenet share. The same way my ISP would not know what is placed on my homepage.
Clearly, if you discover kiddie porn in your freenet share, or my ISP discovers what is in my PGP file, steps will be taken to remove it. But not before. And as such, freenet can not *gurantee* that any node won't be used for such things.
Basicly, you are becoming a "common carrier". Probably not in a legal sense, but still true. You do not control the content any more than the phone company listens to your call or your ISP listen to your internet traffic or monitor monitor my homepage.
In fact, since it is encrypted even less than that. You're more like an ISP seeing a ssh connection to another host, and a PGP file on the users homepage. Sure that ssh connection and pgp file can be used to transfer kiddie porn or plan the latest terrorist action, but you don't *know*.
In fact, it has nothing to do with tolarating it. But you must tolerate not to know what you are relaying.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Very few crimes have that requirement
Search federal kiddie porn law for "know".
Not every crime has the "knowingly" language.
Ahh, that's better. Some crimes have "knowingly"; others have "negligently". Now the question at hand was whether or not the crime of possession or trafficking in child pornography requires knowledge of possession or trafficking. Turns out, I see "knowingly" all over 18 USC 2252 and 2252A.
Will I retire or break 10K?
there are many laws like manslaughter that do not require the proof of intent.
But if the standard is not intent, it is usually negligence, defined as "failure to exercise reasonable care". Because the Freenet share and all Freenet transactions are encrypted, no amount of "reasonable care" will lead anybody to believe that child pornography is flowing through your computer.
Will I retire or break 10K?
It should also be noted that the FEC libraries that are being passed around now (including the Java library from Swarmcast) are all based upon the Vandermonde FEC library provided by Luigi Rizzo. This seed has sprouted the Java library previously mentioned as well as Python bindings that will appear soon coming from the MNet and HiveCache efforts.
...it should almost be considered an urban legend.
Check out number of kp production charges from your police. Divide by number of child molestation charges.
Fact: Very few cases are actually recorded on video or in pictures.
Likewise check out the same numbers for commercial production compared to home production.
Fact: Very few videos are actually made for profit, but rather as home videos.
Movie for movie trading is common, but usually one side has stuff, one side wants stuff. The whole "industry" is based more like a pyramid game, because of the difficulty of finding contacts. If I can buy a video for X$, then sell it to 3 contacts for X$/2, I earn money. Which means that the more exclusive, the higher the price. Now why would anyone put it on KaZaA, losing any "resale" value unless they were at the very bottom of this chain already? I'm sorry, but it wouldn't solve the problem even assuming that all were in it for the money... Unless you're assuming there's some altruistic persons willing to share for free, in which case your model falls
flat on its nose anyway...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Oops, missing a slight important word: that should be virtually impossible :)
Fixing copyright
W4rz3 wants to be free!!!111!!
According to you, the more a person indulges in a fantasy, the more likely they are to act it out.
This is not proven, sociologists who study people have never come to the conclusion that say, Violent games such as quake directly cause murder, or that porn causes rape.
If you can directly link this with pure statistics not only will you have an arguement for your kiddie porn opinion, but you'll have a strong arguement against freedom of speech and for censorship. Joe Lieberman would agree that its the violent games, the nasty porn, and the rap music that causes people to do crazy shit.
I say blame the people, not the games, not the porn images, not the rap music. If you indulge in kiddie porn but you never harm anyone, fine, but if you rape someone you should go to jail, period.
If you play doom, quake or whatever and want to imagine killing your boss, fine, but if you actually kill your boss you should go to jail.
And if you listen to rap music and you imagine you are shooting and robbing people, fine, but if you actually go and do it, you should go to jail.
I dont believe people should be arrested for having bad thoughts, thats just wrong, people should be able to indulge in whatever fantasies they want and you or I have no right to call them sick.
Honestly I think its sick to imagine killing people, but people do that when they play quake, some of these people are my friends, they havent killed anyone, perhaps Quake has the opposite effect and actually calms them down.
Now if people can play quake when pissed off and they dont kill their boss for real, and if people can safely release anger this way, why cant people who like kiddie porn indulge in whatever sick fantasies they have? As long as they never act it out, its their mind and they should be able to think about what they want.
I dont agree with the pictures being made, what I'm saying is if the picture is already made and on the net, no one who views it should go to jail just for viewing it or distributing it, The only one who should go to jail for distributing it should be the first person who put it on the net, the publisher, not the people who pass it around because the publisher is the only one who was directly involved, the others are just a bunch of people who saw it and may think about it but the publisher actually did it.
You should put people in jail for what they do not what they think, next you will outlaw Mc Donalds because it makes people fat, its the Mc Donalds fault not the fat persons fault for being fat.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
"Last time I checked, the "Gee officer, that can't possibly be my porn/drugs because they're not mine" defense was a real case winner."
OJ Simpson Quote: "The Glove doesnt fit"
OJ got away with murder because the glove didnt fit, if you can bring reasonable doubt, you can win.
If you have a good lawyer, you will win.
But aside from the laws which we both know, the debate is, whats more important, freedom of speech or censorship?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Also, if what you say is true you should work for the FBI, and join these so called kiddie porn rings, trade porn with them, get their IPs and arrest them all..
It cant be that easy or else we'd hear of more arrests.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I'm guessing you believe all porn should be outlawed?
You talk BS lol, I never see people as "things" but to pretend people dont use one another, you must have never had casual sex, never watched a porn movie, never done business with anyone, never went to a bank and spoke to a nameless face, etc.
The world is not a very personal place.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Not only that, widespread distribution makes it easier for pedophiles to get hold of it. They use it to support their fantasies, and to convince themselves that sexual contact between adults and children is "normal" because lots of other people do it too. Once they have convinced themselves that it's normal, they become free to act on their fantasies, thereby injuring yet more children.
You must have never played a video game in your life. Do you want to outlaw quake because it encourages people to have sick thoughts? Do you think Quake players might begin to think its normal to kill people because they do it online in Quake?
"
I agree with you that Freenet is not responsible for any of this. Freenet is a tool; like any tool, it can be used for good purposes or bad, and lots of in between. I also don't think that we should squash Freenet. It has some genuinely good purposes, like helping enable political speech under repressive regimes like China"
Ah so its ok for the Chinese to break their laws but not us? They can have their culture destroyed by our Mc donalds (remember its mc donalds that makes people fat) and our horrible rap music (the music which created ghettos), or the rock & roll (the music which caused people to use and sell drugs)
Look, you can pass blame on to the pictures, the games, the information, the ideas or the thoughts, but if its ok for us to pass all our bad thoughts to the Chinese culture, why then are you all about censorinng people who like kiddie porn?
You are no better than the Chinese who want to censor us. Have you heard of culture shock? Sociologists know why the Chinese want to censor things, they want to prevent culture shock, they dont want a revolution, they dont want capitalism forced on them, they dont want our way of life forced on them.
Just like you dont want kiddie porn forced on you. So you censor it so you dont have to see it, and you want to censor it so no one else can see it either. I'm sure the Chinese government is thinking the SAME thing.
I mean after all they wouldnt want the Chinese people to see our crazy sick ideas, their people would then be remote controlled puppets controlled by our movies, our culture, etc etc, right? It would incite riots, millions of Chinese would die, right?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
For those of you who are interested in freenet's continued survival and improvement, see the message Ian Clark recently sent to the announce mailing list:
a te
Hi All,
As most of you are probably aware, Matthew Toseland has been working
full-time on the Freenet project for the past few months, and the
benefits to the project have been dramatic. From the slaying of the
crippling "datastore bug", to more recent work, Matthew's contribution
has been invaluable. Just compare today's Freenet 0.5.1 release with
the last 0.4 release to get a feel for how much difference he has made.
Matthew is able to do this while the Freenet project can pay his living
expenses, which amount to only $1,125/month (this is a fraction of what
even the least expensive software developer makes in the UK). The
project has paid this from donations made via Freenet's website.
Unfortunately, at this time the project's funds are very low, and we are
approaching the time when we need to renew Matthew's contract - without
a significant amount of income over the next few days, it is unlikely
that the project will be able to do this.
It is for this reason that I am making an appeal to subscribes to our
announcements mailing list, something we have never done before, and
which will not be a regular event, I promise.
If every subscriber to this list donated just $10, we could commit to
funding Matthew for the next 8 months.
If you are able to make a contribution, you can do-so by credit card via
our donations page:
http://freenetproject.org/tiki-index.php?page=Don
We now also accept "E-Gold" for those who prefer not to use PayPal for
whatever reason.
Any contribution you can make would be greatly appreciated,
Kind regards,
Ian.
-- Ian Clarke ian@locut.us Coordinator, The Freenet Project http://freenetproject.org/ Founder, Locutus http://locut.us/ Personal Homepage http://locut.us/ian/
I don't understand how it can benefit "kiddie porn purveyors/organized crime/terrorists" (who also need to not be detected/remain anonymous otherwise they get in trouble) and *not* benefit communities of dissenters in China and Mideast.
... and even if it were, I'm not sure that it proves what you're trying to say here.
... maybe I'm missing the point?
In fact, is the sofware/music/whatever "pirate" community that much tinier than say a group of dissenters in the Mid East? (which seems to me is what you're saying, and what you're basing your conclusions on). I really wouldn't have thought so
I'm not sure I agree with your argument
Basically:
How can it be good for secretly distributing kiddie porn and not good for secretely distributing your Fliers on a New Democratic and Just Chinese Government (for example)?
Shouldn't it either be useful for both or useful for neither?
PS
I disagree with the 3rd paragraph too (on matter of principle), but as a practical matter are you saying that no book that was ever published under a pen name is worth reading because we don't know the author's real name? I ask you, Mr. Duffbeer703 (your real birth-given name, not a login name at a public discussion forum used to track Karma with no real links to who you are in real life and therefore actually anonymous?)
"Kazaaa" is not a java application
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
This is not a big mystery, or even all that new. If I ran an anonymous FTP server, and let anyone in the world log in and download copyrighted works, I could be held liable for facilitating their theft.
That got me thinking.
The answer appears to be that, if you take material down when you get a notice-and-takedown letter, the DMCA gives you appropriate protection (17 USC 512 (c) and (d) ). The definition of "service provider" in 512 (k) clearly covers both anonymous FTP and Freenet servers.
What happens when all Freenet users get inundated with notice-and-takedown letters is much less obvious, of course.
IANAL, btw, although I am doing a PhD on digital copyright
Fixing copyright
Sun J2RE runs most java applications quite well, I agree they can be slow on older hardware (like mine) but nevertheless they run quite stable though. If you don't already have it you can find all of them from Sun's pages or at http://www.blackdown.org
I have not tried Freenet yet, but since LimeWire does work quite nicely on my 400MHz machine I suppose Freenet can't be too slow on it either.
- Voice of Ambience -
- Voice of Ambience -
I forgot about the C stuff.
I find it hard to believe that noone would make a client with C/C++, that's probably just a matter of time since Freenet is an Open Source project.
- Voice of Ambience -
- Voice of Ambience -
So if Slashdot was located in Uganda for example would "ours" refer to ppl from Uganda? Geesh, there are more nationalities involved here than "you". Just that there is a server somewhere doesn't mean the users of the same server have to be located right next to it.
But yes, "our politicians" means "our politicians" whether it be italian or bengalese politicians. We all live in the same world. Even Saddam Hussein is "our" politician, or atleast "our" dictator. Like all the others have been... Members of christianity say "Jesus Christ is 'our' saviour" whether they live in Sweden or in USA. That's just how the story goes.
Of course I didn't read the original post since it was cut off.
- Voice of Ambience -
- Voice of Ambience -
Freenet is not the Web. It doesn't execute, it doesn't have dynamic content. You can insert a Wiki, but it'll be much more static. It doesn't do chat rooms. It's essentially a library. Once you publish your file, it goes on the shelf, and it stays there until people stop checking it out and then it goes in the trash. If you want to change something, you have to publish a new file.
Yes, I know :-) But to be fair, then I've only seen these speeds when downloading Debian packages from nearby servers in Denmark or Sweden.
Right now, someone is downloading from my Freenet node with an average speed of 50 KB/s, another one is downloading with 30 KB/s. It's great to see, how the amount of queries has picked up after this Slashdot story.
Martin Geisler --- Visit http://www.gimpster.com/
Anarticle talks about the evils of freespeech mechanisms like freenet.
It's pretty sad that our elected officials are waiting until the tanks roll, in order to debate this, it's also equally sad how silent the media is on this issue. If I were a betting man, i'd say that congress will lose on protecting the status quo.
If you were making over 1million dollars per year, sitting on your arz, minipulating public opinion, you'd want to do everything, including supporting war to preserve your cash flow. Now that there is a decentralized, encyrpted p2p system that will transform the way information flows, those current IPDroids are running like scared chickens to congress for some "protection".
Why does this have to be a tradeoff? Why couldn't one host files on one's own machine with a (internal) flag that would stop the data from expiring from disuse? The flag need not be accessable to the rest of the freenet, and therefore wouldn't provide a method for others (governments etc) to filter the content. Yet the data would be available as long as you kept it on your machine.
If I understand the way Freenet works, it would probably have to be stored on the original host in a separate fashion from the anonymous storage that one 'donates' currently. While this may or may not mean the 'hosted' data isn't anonymous, it would not jepordize the anonimity of other data that was 'inserted' and stored per the current method. Any other node would not know whether it was seeing hosted data or inserted data that just happened to be stored on there. As its popularity increases the data wouln't come from the original node anyway.
OTOH, The freenet FAQ says that the problem would be that there is no guarantee that the requests would route to your 'hosting' node, but to me this seems to be a problem with the Freenet in general, and not to 'hosted' info specifically.
Can't agree entirely with you on that one. I agree that you have to have the tendency in the first place - that's a given.
You say you are grossed out by scat porn, but you probably didn't know that until you saw it (you might have had a good idea previously, but you didn't actually know). Now you probably didn't also purchase it the first time you saw it, so the fact that it was free to you meant that you could check it out at no cost and decide if you wanted more. In your case you didn't but in some other case that might not be the case, so to speak.
I think your sexual appetite can be developed, depending on what you are exposed to, in fact it's almost a certainty that what turned you on last year won't affect you as much next year and in that way your appetite will have developed. Free porn of all types makes it easier for you to veer off in the direction(s) that you want and find your particular comfort level.
Whether that is a good thing or not isn't for me to comment on.
Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
Do I detect a hint of defensiveness in your candor?
By any chance is the "National War on Terrorism" undermining your job security lately?
I can't remember where the credit belongs, but the theorem that nations require laws designed to incriminate just about everyone for at least something (or risk an ungovernable citizenry) seems particularly applicable to your division.
It is not a matter of having an appetite or not having it. Appetites can be suppressed. The ability to suppress base appetites is what separates us from the animals.
That's an interesting idea...tell you what, I invite you to prove it by suppressing your base appetite for food and water for the next 5 days.
What?..oh, you meant SEX!
In other words, that base appetite for the satisfaction of procreation, perfected by evolution. That base appetite that prefers a fresh and firm partner, due to past success in spreading the seed of my ancestors instead of the seed of those who would rather wait a few years.
Let's assume for a second that you're right after all, and we as a society need to de-evolve human procreation to fit the strange box we've built in the last couple of centuries. Perhaps we should get rid of traditional sex altogether -- should be possible in this age of machines and enlightened society. Heck, why not get rid of men while we're at it, once we decode the genome of course!
Pedophiles are the ones who make pedophilia. Pedophiles are the ones who create the motivation for other pedophiles to create this socially unacceptable content.
I don't suppose you've seen that popular video floating around the net with the young woman who repeatedly undresses to trendy dance music and then pleasures herself at a variety of outdoor locations? It's the one titled "Svaasant - Teen Home Movie", about 360MB, and by most accounts contains material for which someone such as yourself would enjoy prosecuting someone else for viewing. Never mind that the "victim" is clearly having a wonderful time and is most likely over the age-of-consent in her homeland. In any case, it would be a good guess to say that the production and distribution of this artifact of internet culture was NOT instigated by pedophiles.
Well, I'll let you get back to whatever it is you do over there when you're not wacking it to the in-house collection...as for myself, I think I'll watch a little of "Young, Dumb, and Full of Cum!" and ponder the strange circumstances of how relatively recent social changes have both empowered females to enjoy sex (and admit it), and created draconian laws designed to supress the natural, physical desires of most males -- er, ANImales.
You have been warned.
Thanks! I'll be sure to set the bit-length on my encrypted file systems appropriately high.
where can i get some of those picz?
Although we modern persons tend to take our electric lights, radios, mixers,
etc., for granted, hundreds of years ago people did not have any of these
things, which is just as well because there was no place to plug them in.
Then along came the first Electrical Pioneer, Benjamin Franklin, who flew a
kite in a lighting storm and received a serious electrical shock. This
proved that lighting was powered by the same force as carpets, but it also
damaged Franklin's brain so severely that he started speaking only in
incomprehensible maxims, such as "A penny saved is a penny earned."
Eventually he had to be given a job running the post office.
-- Dave Barry, "What is Electricity?"
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