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Strike on Iraq
According to CNN and various other news sources, Iraq is now under attack by
the US. Here is a link to the current story running at CNN right now, but there's really not much except that it has started. CT Cruise missiles launched against "Target of Opportunity". The full assault has not begun. CT The attack was specifically intended to take out Saddam. CT Saddam appeared on iraqi TV to condemn the US, and Iraqi missiles have been fired at Kuwait.
...and a bigger threat to world peace than Hussein ever was.
The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
It's like prison rape, best if they get it over with quickly...
It's been reported as a US cruise missle attack on an unexpected target of opportunity.
Good luck to all the US soldiers, I think when the fighting starts those anti-war protestors should switch to SUPPORTING OUR TROOPS! I know if I was over there I wouldn't want to hear about protests at home, I would want to hear about support.
Got this in Email this morning, passing it along:
Published on Monday, March 17, 2003 by Michael Moore
A Letter from Michael Moore to George W. Bush on the Eve of War
by Michael Moore
George W. Bush
1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Washington, DC
Dear Governor Bush:
So today is what you call "the moment of truth," the day that "France and the rest of world have to show their cards on the table." I'm glad to hear that this day has finally arrived. Because, I gotta tell ya, having survived 440 days of your lying and conniving, I wasn't sure if I could take much more. So I'm glad to hear that today is Truth Day, 'cause I got a few truths I would like to share with you:
1. There is virtually NO ONE in America (talk radio nutters and Fox News aside) who is gung-ho to go to war. Trust me on this one. Walk out of the White House and on to any street in America and try to find five people who are PASSIONATE about wanting to kill Iraqis. YOU WON'T FIND THEM! Why? 'Cause NO Iraqis have ever come here and killed any of us! No Iraqi has even threatened to do that. You see, this is how we average Americans think: If a certain so-and-so is not perceived as a threat to our lives, then, believe it or not, we don't want to kill him! Funny how that works!
2. The majority of Americans -- the ones who never elected you -- are not fooled by your weapons of mass distraction. We know what the real issues are that affect our daily lives -- and none of them begin with I or end in Q. Here's what threatens us: two and a half million jobs lost since you took office, the stock market having become a cruel joke, no one knowing if their retirement funds are going to be there, gas now costs almost two dollars -- the list goes on and on. Bombing Iraq will not make any of this go away. Only you need to go away for things to improve.
3. As Bill Maher said last week, how bad do you have to suck to lose a popularity contest with Saddam Hussein? The whole world is against you, Mr. Bush. Count your fellow Americans among them.
4. The Pope has said this war is wrong, that it is a SIN. The Pope! But even worse, the Dixie Chicks have now come out against you! How bad does it have to get before you realize that you are an army of one on this war? Of course, this is a war you personally won't have to fight. Just like when you went AWOL while the poor were shipped to Vietnam in your place.
5. Of the 535 members of Congress, only ONE (Sen. Johnson of South Dakota) has an enlisted son or daughter in the armed forces! If you really want to stand up for America, please send your twin daughters over to Kuwait right now and let them don their chemical warfare suits. And let's see every member of Congress with a child of military age also sacrifice their kids for this war effort. What's that you say? You don't THINK so? Well, hey, guess what -- we don't think so either!
6. Finally, we love France. Yes, they have pulled some royal screw-ups. Yes, some of them can pretty damn annoying. But have you forgotten we wouldn't even have this country known as America if it weren't for the French? That it was their help in the Revolutionary War that won it for us? That our greatest thinkers and founding fathers -- Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, etc. -- spent many years in Paris where they refined the concepts that lead to our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution? That it was France who gave us our Statue of Liberty, a Frenchman who built the Chevrolet, and a pair of French brothers who invented the movies? And now they are doing what only a good friend can do -- tell you the truth about yourself, straight, no b.s. Quit pissing on the French and thank them for getting it right for once. You know, you really should have traveled more (like once) before you took over. Your ignorance of the world has not only made you look stupid, it has painted you into a corner you can't get out of.
Well, cheer up -- there IS good news. If you do go through with this war, more than likely it will be
Regardless of whether you agree with the war or not (I sure as hell do not) we all have to support our troops.
** Boom **
{{.sig}}
Well as I've posted elsewhere I did what I could, I protested, called my representatives and in the jacked up country that is supposed to be the worlds greatest democracy, I (and many others) got ignored. Lets not forget this come election day, this country is long overdue a good housecleaning.
3000 dead over past 2 years, still no free Palestinians, still
I contend that many companies don't look at prior military service as an asset. Many companies don't operate like the military, and expertise in a large, bloated organization is usually exactly what managers DON'T need. They need fast, independent thinkers.
Most of the best and brightest people in government and industry have AVOIDED military service... and many fewer still have been enlistees.
See this document on the smart way to serve your country!
But I feel bad for the United States troops in this ordeal, as well as the Iraqi people. Yeah, Saddam might be a dick, but Bush is being no better at this point.
Yes, the situation at hand sucks.
That's why I like Slashdot. I was hoping it could be avoided here.
So, unless these cruise-missiles are sporting some new build of BSD, or are hosting an Apache webserver or SOMETHING, I really would rather not hear about it.
Just my $.02.
Informatus Technologicus
Why is it NOT okay when Saddam defies the UN, but it's okay when President Bush does it? Could someone explain that to me, please?
Islam says that this is a choice that we all will face. In conflict or in crisis, will we choose what we know to be ethical, or will we choose that which we know will benefit us.
I think that Bush chose material considerations over ethics. It seems to me that he sacrificed his ethics because the Pope himself declared that war with Iraq is a sin, and Bush is publicly Christian. But it is possible that Bush really thinks that he is doing the right thing. Only God and Bush know for sure why Bush is doing this apparently unethical thing.
Anyway, it's a choice we all will have to make before we die, and reflects what kind of person we are. That's life.
I am going to say this once and I am not going to respond to anyone. I still keeps me awake at night.
I was in the US Army durining the 1st gulf war.
We went in to Kuwait City early. As the Iraq Army was leaving. There was this orphanage. The soldiers had raped all the girls. Some as young as 8. They killed the workers from the Red Cresent that were there. There was this room in the hotel in downtown. There was a bed frame - metal. On it was a body of a man. Next to it was a bucket of water and a set of car batteries. We found over 50 people that had be killed like that.
I hope Sadam burns in hell.
I believe that peace is a noble cause and I wish that I still can still be as idealist as the rest that are outraged by this war. But I cannot. You seeI have seen the evil that men can do. The only way to a true and lasting peace is for good men to take a stand and fight evil when it appears - period.
These are but some of the war hawks who serve in a capacity to advise Bush or the Pentagon. Notice the last names? They aren't christian. Many of these people are also Israeli citizens.
Notice who still controls the media. Why else would over 60% of Americans believe that Saddam Hussein is responsible for the 9/11 attacks, when there is neither evidence nor allegation of his involvement? That belief exists only because of innuendo placed into Bush's mouth by his Israeli advisors and repeated ad nauseum by the corporate media.
Do any of you remember the first days of the Bush regime and how well he illustrated and underscored the fact that he is an alcoholic cocaine-addicted idiot? This current image of him is entirely fabricated: he doesn't give impromptu speeches, he won't speak unless he is guaranteed a standing ovation, and every word of his is crafted by advisors and speechwriters.
Go ahead and mod this post down as flamebait. I'm not anti-semitic (the al-Shehi handle is a lame attempt at humor, I know...), but very frustrated that our country is not being run by us. I'm very frustrated that we haven't learned to accept the 9/11 attacks as Karma served 10 years after the first Iraqi invasion, and frustrated to see that we are blindy charging into this new unjust invasion, creating new enemies and setting into motion future just attacks against innocent Americans. I am frustrated that the Pentagon has announced its intention to pinpoint all satellite uplinks within Iraq and bomb them, killing independent journalists who might have the only chance to show us the reality of this war.
I agree with the first post in this article--I am ashamed to call myself an American.
"I think all foreigners should stop interfering in the internal affairs of Iraq"
-- Paul Wolfowitz, 7/21/2003
What makes Canada, France and Germany great is the courage shown while resisting American pressure to join this war and implicitly toss the UN in the dustbin.
Shame on the American political leadership for not respecting an institution they helped design, and a principle their nation helped define.
A Canadian.
> My personal pet peeve is the "name" that each channel has
My personal pet peeve is that certain stations consistently refer to this as part of "the war on terror" and describe the troops over there as "defending their country".
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
We are at war! I support our troops in liberating the people of Iraq from Suddam Hussan. I do not like war but there is time war is inevitable. Have we all forgotten how evil Suddam is? His actions and his tyranncy reminds me of Adolf Hilter. Do we have to go back to the time of WWII where Adolf murder innoccent people with weapons of mass destruction? Suddam kills his own people with bio weapon when they rioted. He kill his family members for betraying him. He kill the family of the people that is disloyal to him. He keep the people in proverty. Freedom of speech does not exist. Do I need to go on. Suddam is playing with us for too long. He agrees to disarm. Does his action agree with what he states. Why bio weapons and not conventional weapons? He want to do more harm. Why place weapons in civilian populations? These tactics are immoral and uncivilized. Do I need to go on? HOw about the torture of american soldier. Where is the geneva convention?? We as a nation with the power, needs to be a bigger brother. We need to assist those who need help. If we do not help those who are in danger, we get blamed for not helping. When we do help, we are accused of abuseing our power. What we do as a nation does not make everyone happy but our goals are for the good. Okay, United States has done stuff that I would not agree with. We are a leader but we are also human. human fail and so does leaders. thats that. -dmak
After listening to the witty banter of both sides of the debate on this current war, I've come to the following conclusions:
Ridding this planet of a genocidal maniac is GOOD.
Stopping the development of devastanting weapons by a genocidal manic is GOOD.
Liberating people from constant fear of getting raped for stepping out of line is GOOD.
Relieving a point of tension in an already over-tensed region is GOOD.
Protecting the national interests of my homeland is GOOD.
Protecting my way of life, and therefore, the way of life of many people across the globe is GOOD.
----
Doing is alone is BAD!!
Killing people is BAD!!
Aggression is BAD!!
WAR IS BAD!!
Boo-flipping-hoo. Weigh the pros with the cons and it simply doesn't even come close to remotely mattering on the tiniest scale the "offical" reason for killing this mofo. It needs to be done. I REPEAT FOR THE DEAF: IT NEEDS TO BE DONE. Obviously noone wants to do it, so we have to.
We do the best thing for the rest of the world, almost always at the sake of our nation's reputation but I for one don't give two flying flips. It needs to be done, and for the LOVE OF GOD why not do it now? We've learned, to our GREAT SADNESS, the great repercussion of our inactions when we could have killed Bin Laden. ANd no, folks, Saddam is to Bin Laden as Water is to H2O, same flippin difference. He's a murderer and he should have been taken in on war crimes a long time ago.
So I for one am ashamed that people who call themselves Americans don't understand why our nation has the unenviable position of having the cajones to take care of what HAS TO BE DONE. It has to be done NOW.
I love peace as much as the next guy, but I can't stand by and wait to be murdered in my own home.
And honestly people, why would Bush waste so much money and at the cost of human life, if the reasons weren't justifiable? Give me a frickin break, you have to be so partisan or just plain naieve to believe that crap.
Get a clue, use your brain and THINK for Christ's sake, our nation was founded in war and the longest peace on this planet war forged from the scraps of war. We have to start the elimination of the people for the good of humanity and the future of the planet.
I am filled with endless pride that I have a government that will act on what it believes to be right, regardless of the negative feedback. That we act regardless of the impact on our reputation is the greatest testament that America will push forward against all opposition to ensure the good of the world.
God Bless America, proud parent of the planet Earth.
Right now as we read these posts, people are fucking dying. I mean, they are fucking dead. Can we stop posting stupid witty posts for 2 seconds? Just stop and think. Right now, some one else is dead. Stop with the goddamn pro-war rhetoric for just a brief moment, and really stop and think about what it means to be alive. Wake up from your psuedo-intellectual rantings, and really think about what it means to be alive.
you realy think we can get bush and his thugs out of their offices!?!
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
Who wants to bet the stock on this comapny is about to skyrocket when they get all the contracts to rebuild Iraq. Hey, they've grabbed billions of dollars of tax funded contracts already.
r ticles/halliburtonprimer.html
http://chart.forbes.com/graph.asp?symbol1=HAL
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/a
Who wants to be Cheney and Bush have a whole lot of stock in that company? I love it when war profiteers are in charge... wait... No... no I don't. Those are my tax dollars and my friends going to war.
I hope the Iraqi troops surrender, the UN survives and now that he's being cornered and offered no way out, I hope Saddam doesn't unleash any weapons of mass destruction that he might have.
-Derick
This is such a bullshit statement. There is seldom honor in doing what you're trained to do. Many of the atrocities in history were made possible because of people like you, who justified their actions as duty.
Shame on you. Shame on my brother who is over there now. And shame on any other soldier who takes part in this.
What I'm trying to say is that when this is all over Bush will be a great hero or a fool. There is no arguing that the UN has given Saddam 10 or so years to clean up his act, and unless our government is completely lying to us (I don't know what they're trying to gain, afterall Iraq only has a measely 3% of the world's oil), he has been in violation of the peace treaty after the Gulf war. I personally, am going to wait until this is over until I pass my judgement. Afterall, as teh Turkish prime minister said, "When the victorious gather at the table, do you want to be the meal or the guest of honor?"
This will be at the bottom, but oh well:
I have put a lot of thought into this war. A lot of people in this country think we should go to war. I can't say whether we should or shouldn't, but I can say that wholeheartedly disagree with the idea of a "pre-emptive strike". There is nothing wrong with defending yourself or defending someone else, but attacking out of fear is not to be allowed. However, there is more to this war than that.
I started out firmly against this war, but after examining the facts, I believe it is a GOOD IDEA. Not because of any pre-emptive strike, but because I believe the Iraqi people could end up better off in the end. I was all out against war, until I read an interview with a guy whose wife was from Iraq. He was talking about how her family is still there and how awful it is. Everyone hates the regime, nobody can change it. Someone will make a comment at a dinner meeting one night, and be gone the next day. Udai runs wild in Baghdad doing what he pleases, raping both men and women, cutting the heads off of prostitutes, etc. If this war ends the regime this is good.
Typically I do not believe in "the ends justifies the means". However, I think that if this frees the Iraqi people, if it is good for them, I am for it. We will not know until the war is over if that is true, but what could be worse than the current situation?
Remember Res. 1441?
The U.N. warned that there would be trouble if Iraq didn't fess up to all, and they meant ALL of thier weapons. Remember that 14K someodd page document that the Iraqi government gave us? It was supposed to be a full listing of thier weapons, just like the U.N. wanted.
It was lies. Not all lies, but lies none the less. Right then, right F-ing then, the U.N., be it in possesion of a backbone, would have started the attack on Iraq. Right then. 1441 was breached.
And this wasn't just us claiming it. Blix himself found the weapons that were NOT on the list. Breach. Iraq knew about those missles, and were moving them around before they were found. Breach. Iraq moved them before they created the 14K page document, so they knew that they were leaving it off the list. Breach.
If the U.N. had backbone, they would have caused, "Serious Consequences" right then. Right then.
But they didn't. Bush beat the war drum long enough, and is threw with it, and is blowing Iraqi soil into the wind as I type.
Make no mistake. I don't like Bush, I didn't vote for him, Ashcroft scares me, and I think that Bush is far too motivated by his religion. But he is right to attack. The U.N. should have already, but they didn't.
It shouldn't just be us.
There are no gods but ourselves.
Okay, so do you think that if an Iraqi operative fired on GWB tonight, CNN would report that as a "decaptiation attack"? No. That would be an assasination attempt. That's how the press release would read.
I don't quite know why, but my morals tell me that even in a time of war, assasination is wrong. Maybe I feel that war should be restricted to armed combatants, I don't know. But there's something about dropping a bomb on a target that isn't manning a weapon that makes me a little queasy. Granted, a head of state isn't exactly a civilian, but should one really be considered a combatant? What are the implications?
Or am I just being horribly naive?
Speaking as an American who thinks that an act
of aggression against a supinely compliant nation
of children bombed and blockaded into disease and
starvation for 12 years is a war crime, I too hope
that this operation has successfully removed
Saddam Hussein from power, and that these acts of
war prevent a U.S./British occupation by removing
the last pretext for total war.
Killing is always evil. When it is justified in
the defense of non-aggressors, and is a proportionate response, it is a lesser evil.
The trajectory of this administration is towards
a disproportionate response to the evil of the
Hussein regime, but if they pull off a decapitation
operation, and subsequently withdraw their forces,
I will be very pleasantly surprised that no war
crimes have occurred.
I will always be sadly disappointed that the
administration which I voted for was willing to
resort to lies, propaganda, subterfuge, bribery
and bullying threats to force an unjustifiable war,
but I could even forgive the contempt of the the
Security Council and the American democratic system
which those actions demonstrated, if they managed
to remove the Hussein regime without an invasion
or subduing bombardment.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
Chirac and Schröder appear to have picked up the slack in that department, FWIW...
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
That's all I can say. I hope our troops go out there and kick some good ol fashioned butt, and show the world who's boss. And Kim Jong Il, watch out cause you might be next!
Thank you and God bless America.
George W. Bush
President, United States of America
Unprovoked attack=War crime in my book.
So the 1991 war was a war crime? You remember, the one called for by the UN, which the United States led? Even though the United States hadn't been attacked, or even threatened?
You have a very naive view of what constitutes a legal war, my friend.
There is no evidence that Saddam gassed his own people.
Okay. I don't agree, but for sake of argument, okay. So?
How do the US know he has these weapons? They checked the receipts. UK and US are who sold them to him.
Again, okay. I don't agree-- in point of fact, many countries, including France and Russia, have provided Iraq with weapons and weapon precursors that are now proscribed; Iraq got their first weapons-related nuclear reactor from France, and all those fancy-schmancy Scud missiles that Iraq had in 1991 came from the USSR. But okay. Again, so? You have successfuly demonstrated that the United States of America is not perfect. Whoopty-shit.
The attack is without UN backing.
As a matter of fact, it isn't. The United States, along with all the other members of the UN Security Council, is authorized explicitly under UNSCR 678 to use "all necessary means" to resolve the conflict between Iraq and Kuwait. Because Iraq has never, not even for a split second, been in compliance with the terms of the cease-fire that temporarily ended hostilities in 1991, the Security Council members are fully authorized by the UN to use whatever means they see fit, including war, to achieve Iraqi compliance.
I write in my journal
I'm pretty sure Nazi Germany also distributed leaflets encouraging soldiers to surrender. In fact, when they attacked France, the newspapers spoke of the wonderful Nazi Army that was "liberating" France.
I'm sure the Iraqi's will write you a thankyou letter after operation "shock and awe", which is sending 3,000 bombs over the course of 48 hours, completely level's their city and rips innocent people apart. Maybe they could send the bodyparts with the letter to help you understand what this is about. If we want to stop the killing in the Middle East, the first thing we should do is to stop participating in it.
Here's a question for you, name ONE first world country that in this era would go around the world to slaughter (it's not war, there is NO contest) another country. You might name Britain, but I'm talking about countries that weren't bribed or coerced.
You may not be a hawk, but you have nothing to be proud of. This slaughter has no purpose other than to claim oil. If Bush was after terrorists, he would be in Saudi Arabia, if he was after WMD's, he would be in North Korea. If we were trying to install a democracy, we would start with last country we bombed, Afghanistan, or perhaps we could even start here in the US. The amount of hypocracy and lies used to excuse this slaughter is stunning. There is nothing to be proud of.
Why on Earth didn't we just get it over with 12 years ago?
Nah, it's no use lorenlal. Anti-War people love saying "It's about Oil!" but they can never sufficiently answer why we didn't conquer all the Iraqui oil fields in '91 (and to say "Oh we just wanted Kuwaiti oil" or something just is an excuse - if it was about oil, we woulda taken over iraq. period). But it wasn't. Anti-Americans ALWAYS think there's an evil "true" reason for everything we do.
Somolia - To conquer Africa!
Yugoslavia - To conquer E europe!
Afganistan - to conquer Asia!