I created an account and set the email address as 'webmaster@nytimes.com' No spam here!
-- What those who want activist courts fear is rule by the people.
Re:I hate cheaters!
by
misterhaan
·
· Score: 4, Informative
even better is to set up your computer to route requests that are trying to go to www.nytimes.com to the archive instead. the ip of archive.nytimes.com is 199.239.136.212
windows users can find a file named hosts (no extension) under system32/drivers/etc and add the following line to automatically go to archive.nytimes.com instead of www.nytimes.com:
199.239.136.212 www.nytimes.com
Not sure what you mean. I dont play MMORPGS or RTS.. Im a first person shooter kinda guy.. but when I get on Quake3 server, adn I see one score of 300 and the rest are around 30, its a clue.. and when you see the skin standing in the wide open firing faster than any human could shoot and spin, with rails apparently coming out its ass, you get a clue that this is what is going on.
usually, I suspect those bots are actually _on_ the server. But Punkbuster helps..
Playing UT23K I havent seen much trouble.. the game seems much more even and better than Quake(s) ever were.
But Im sure there are people scripting things for Evercrack, and letting them run overnight. And buying and selling items on Ebay.. or running six player accounts, and then transferring things to each other.. but I guess thats part of the game. There is always some moron who just isnt happy that he isnt as good as the next guy, and feels the need to "even" the playing field for himself.
Maeryk
-- Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
Wallhackers and the honesty of surveillance
by
ergo98
·
· Score: 5, Informative
I'm a fan of the game Urban Terror, a mod for Quake 3, and play online a fair bit (I usually run Visual Studio on one monitor, UT on the other: One good thing about being a rambo player in team survivor games is that I'm dead the majority of the time, and hence find it to actually be a remarkably productive time): While recently an anti-cheat tool, PunkBuster was added to Q3 (and it is constantly updated), there is still a serious issue of cheaters, the most common among them being wallhackers. What is a wallhacker? Well it's what was mentioned in the summary: Wire frame worlds, allowing cheating players to view other players whereever they are on the map, obviously giving a pretty clear advantage.
So what does this have to do with the honesty of surveillance? Well in team survivor when you die you can ghost other players as they move around the map, and it tends to be that wallhackers are discovered quite quickly--Their behaviour and actions in the game do not correlate with the information that they should be visually receiving (from what we can see ghosting them). Usually this quickly leads to cries of cheater and a vote to kick the offending player.
Re:Wallhackers and the honesty of surveillance
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
For some people, the fun is in the acomplishment of cheating itself (you know, essentially hacking the game).
For some people the fun is in "being evil" by cheating and causing others to have less fun.
For some people the fun is in the glory winning, even if it was not fair win (just as long as the others don't find out).
Re:Wallhackers and the honesty of surveillance
by
alexandre
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· Score: 4, Insightful
I'm not a gamer myself but when i do try out a game (in single player mode that is) i dont feel i have tried the game if i havent seen the cheats...
And i'd say that for me, if i wanted to cheat online, it would be for the fact that cheating is actually pushing the possible capabilities of the game to it's limit... Like being Neo eh?;-)
It's not a question of showing off, or being evil or even winning... it's the question of getting all the necessary powers to your character. It's the only way to really get into the games, having everything. The problem lies in the fact that it is there, always a possibility in your mind. And i've never liked to put barriers there;)
Oh well, i don't see how we'll be preventing that beside playing on remote X terminals ehehe (which requires huge bandwith:-)
(P.S. Just a point of view, i never actually tried an online cheat and usually play with friends on local LANs anyway so i'd get my head ripped off hehe:-)
Re:Wallhackers and the honesty of surveillance
by
Moloch666
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
I normally stick to the same servers, usually the crowd on some are better than others. When I get familiar with the other players that are regulars I don't have to worry about playing exceptional. They can tell a cheater, they also have seen me play enough to know I have my good days and bad days.
The other day my favorite servers where full, so I went elsewhere. It was a clan operated server clan name was [CM] I believe. Sadly, people that are in a clan automatically think they are good, these people were not. Their movement was very predictable or nonexistent. Along with another player we were seriously killing these people and they outnumbered us 4:3. It wasn't long before we both were kicked. I immediately reconnected, just to see what the deal was (and make fun of them). They were convinced I was cheating, people act like it is hard to get head shots or something. The damn cheaters out there ruin the game for the good players.
Sorry for my rambling, I just get frustrated. When I come home from work, sometimes I just want to smoke some wacky tobaccy and shoot people in the head.
-- Understanding is a three-edged sword. -- Kosh Naranek
Re:Wallhackers and the honesty of surveillance
by
operagost
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
So are you saying that when you're angry with someone, it's okay to take it out on innocent strangers? And that this should be considered a political protest?
Re:Wallhackers and the honesty of surveillance
by
cjpez
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
it's the question of getting all the necessary powers to your character. It's the only way to really get into the games, having everything.
Well, I'd certainly disagree with that. If you're cheating, you're not getting into the game, you're changing how the game works. You're changing the nature of how the game flows, what you can do in it, and all that. You're no longer playing the original game. Yes, I'm still playing a game if I decide that every piece of mine is a Queen, but it's not chess anymore. And if I'm playing Quake and my client automatically locks onto the other players and frags them without my ever having to hit the fire button, then I'm just playing something that happens to talk to Quake servers. When you're playing against a bunch of other people who are expecting you to be playing Quake Proper, they've got every right to be upset if they discover that you're playing something else.
I'm not saying that doing so can't be fun, or that nobody should see what they can do with their software. I've cheated on the single-player modes of just about every game I've played, generally shortly after I've become bored with the basic game itself, and shortly before I decide to just uninstall the thing and go read a book instead. And I agree that it is fun to push the limits of the software, just to see what you can do, but again, you're not really playing that game anymore.
Also, I think that cheating can in fact get in the WAY of getting into the game. Ever play Half-Life? The whole fun of the game is being dropped into this strange, hostile world with nothing but a crowbar and having these terrifying alien creatures leaping out at you. Sure, I can cheat and get all the weapons or make myself invincible, but if I do so all of the suspense goes away. I could noclip and wander around finding things but I'm not getting claustrophobic in air ducts and the like. Do you remember Aliens TC, for Doom (I think)? That was a fantastic mod. And with cheats it became Just Another Shooter.
Anyway, that's a hell of a lot more words than I should have spent on that.:)
Of course they do...
by
MosesJones
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· Score: 3, Interesting
In terms of being "better" at the game than others, but part of the question should be is it cheating, or just another game.
Someone who buys or downloads a cheat that someone else made is a different deal, and clearly some of those people are pretty sad individuals who just want to say "ha ha fragged you", before never ever having sex with anyone.
However the person who creates the cheat, who engages in what can be described as espionage against the game developer is playing a different game of skill, that person is learning things, developing things and playing their own game with their own rules and "winning" by being able to cheat. The challenge here isn't to be better at Quake, but to be able to cheat the best at Quake, that in itself is a game.
How about an open game in which these developers play their cheats off against each other using the best players without cheats as the players in the game. That way you can find out who developed the best cheat.
-- An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Wireframes?
by
Student_Tech
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· Score: 4, Insightful
Wasn't there a driver several years ago for a video card that allowed somehting like this? (Ok found/. story here.)
Why modify the game where they might be able to detect it when you can just play with drivers to do the same thing (assuming the game is sending all that to the video card already)
Re:Wireframes?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2, Informative
That's why anti-cheat systems like Punkbuster look at more than just the game binaries and additionally allow server-triggered screenshots. The latter is optional, but when the game goes beyond casual deathmatch, ladders may require that it's enabled.
I'm not sure about how the Xbox handles games (how much does it load on the hard disk?), but wouldn't consoles which run the software off of a non-rewritable medium (PS2/Gamecube) be ideal for online gaming since then the distributor can control what software is on everyone's machine?
--
Galium Arsenide is the material of the future, and always will be.
Re:Consoles
by
Hakubi_Washu
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· Score: 3, Informative
Possibly not... Many "modern" cheats don't change files on your disk(s) at all, because simple checksums can prevent this. Instead they modify values in your RAM directly, which is more nitty-gritty, but harder to prevent. And: This is possible on consoles too, as they have RAM as well (For the PlayStation there are a lot of "Modules" that are inserted into it's serial port, another way is to load a CD with "malicious" code before loading the game...)
Cheating IS fun....
by
Deth_Master
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· Score: 4, Funny
I remember the good old days of Doom:
iddqd
idkroz
idkfa
That was fun. Load up on the berzerk pak, and god mode. Then run around smooshing imps.
I used to cheat on all my old single-player games, Descent, Duke Nukem, Shadow Warrior. But that was just me, not me vs some other real person, that doesn't like it when I'm invincible, and got the rocketlauncher with unlimited rockets.
Cheats on the internet probably shouldn't be allowed, it'll just piss people off.
-- find ~your -name '*base* | xargs chown:us
I agree with the author..
by
tempestdata
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· Score: 2, Insightful
cheating itself is not such a problem. I remember using tainers in Diablo so that I could just go in and kill some monsters. I never PKed, or went into games where they said 'cheaters not welcome'. I went off with a few friends into the caves in nightmare mode. It was a gore fest and it really was fun! I think the issue is decency more than cheating. There will always be a few who wish to gain a 'competitive advantage' somehow, making life difficult for the average joe. This isn't the case just in games... look at our law books and you'll see what I mean.
-- -
Tempestdata
Re:I agree with the author..
by
ergo98
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Speaking of Diablo, the online variant of it was absolutely destroyed by cheaters. I know that shortly after boring of the single player game I gave the online variant a try: After several attempts at play, always to be PKd by cheaters (level 2s with hundreds of HP, for instance), I gave up on it forever and never tried it again.
Cheat me once, shame on you. Cheat me twice, shame on me. If I continue to play against cheaters, or people who continuously kick my butt, where probability should demand a more balanced percentage of win/loss, it's my own fault. Better to play honest people like me, who play for the fun of playing, not for some thrill of cheating fellow players.
--
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
ESR has a good essay on game cheating
by
Dr.+Manhattan
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· Score: 3, Informative
Others reprogram their video cards to hide the elaborate textured walls in a game. All that is left is a wire-frame outline, allowing a player to see through walls and track those hiding behind them.
If you can reprogram your video card then you wouldn't even HAVE to cheat.
You already are "The One"
Whod they reference...
by
nfsilkey
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· Score: 2, Interesting
PlanetQuake? ^_^
This article seems rather dated when discussing the FPS cheat-em-ups. Punkbuster has been dead in the water since early 2001. VAC is just now gradually working at bridging the gap between legitimate players and cheat-free bliss. Still buggier than a Brit tho.:>
Then again, it is poignant to observe the Q2-era cheats. When the mood strikes, and an old Q2 vet hits up the few Lith servers left on the Net, he is greeted typically with one or more players OBVIOUSLY craxing and haxing. Still going strong. The CS community is one which works hardest, imho, at a social more and communal interest in enforcing a 'policy' of sorts that cheating just sucks and work has to be done.
What college is this?
by
Lord_Slepnir
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· Score: 5, Funny
From the article: "When I play an online game, I can't be the best because there are some college kids out there spending 14 hours a day."
What college is this that you can play games 14 hours a day and still pass? Everyone I know that did that either failed out or is taking so few credits they might as well have dropped out. College kids, I fear not. 12-year olds who have nothing to do all summer long, I fear.
Re:What college is this?
by
anon*127.0.0.1
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· Score: 2, Insightful
But thats always the justification that cheaters use. They're not doing it to gain an advantage. They're just doing it to "level the playing field", because everyone else cheats already, or has lots more time to play, or has a better computer.
The worst thing about cheating is the climate of distrust it creates. Any time a player gets lucky, or does something unusually skilled, they're quickly accused of cheating and usually booted. Even worse are the "So-and-so is cheating! / No I'm not!" arguments. Once one of those gets started, the games ruined. I spend more time worrying about whether that person is cheating or not then I do playing my own game.
The University of Tennessee-Knoxville. Our number one complaint from kids: "Why is Kazaa so slow?" Number two: "Look, I am a professional gamer and I am getting lag to the game server in Fiji that we use. And it is your fault." I had a kid claim that he made $60000 one year. Is this possible?
-- Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
Some Common-Sense Solutions
by
fuzzybunny
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
Note, I'm not a really hard-core gamer or expert, so take this with a grain of salt, but...
Cheating in online games is always going to be a problem. You won't solve it, but can at least reduce it to the point where a server admin can deal with individual accusations.
-Only send each client information it really needs. -Use checksums on binaries and libraries and things. -Try to get more 'mature' gaming crowds together. I have noticed vast difference playing Battlefield 1942 at various times during the day, such as when it's mostly high school kids, or people with jobs who start playing after dinner, whatever. -Make it clear that cheating sucks and won't be tolerated--this can help catch the remaining people with aimbot screen overlays and things that automated means won't take care of.
Netrek used some anti-cheating mechanism, by embedding an RSA key in every "authorized" client, to which only a few developers known to the "RSA guy" and the Netrek community as a whole had access. Imperfect system, but it reduced use of bots to the point where it didn't really matter.
Also, one thing that a lot of people forget is that a lot of 'active' cheats (mainly bots in action games) fall into one of two categories:
a) Fully-automated -- these are predictable. b) Partially automated -- things like aimbots. Their "owners" probably suck otherwise. If they see you, they'll get off a clean shot, but you don't have to confront them directly to smash them.
I am usually sufficiently gratified when I crush someone I suspect strongly of cheating by knowing it's probably some whiny 13 year old staring at his screen in impotent frustration to not really care about the other 9 out of 10 times he's beat me, not by skill but through some technology he most likely didn't create.
Re:Some Common-Sense Solutions
by
SuperKendall
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· Score: 3, Funny
I am usually sufficiently gratified when I crush someone I suspect strongly of cheating by knowing it's probably some whiny 13 year old staring at his screen in impotent frustration to not really care about the other 9 out of 10 times he's beat me, not by skill but through some technology he most likely didn't create
I feel the same way - when the Quake 3 demo first came out, I played online a bit. One day a player came along that was taking advantage of a serious speed enhancement... so I devoted the rest of my time to tracking and killing him. It didn't take long to find him as he'd wander all over at top speed... the funny thing was is that he was pretty predicable, even though very fast... so I was able to kill him before he got me about once for every three kills he got. I also taunted him, and I know I got to him as eventually he started only going after me!! Of course, knowing he was coming made it even easier to get kills as I could just slam rockets into a wall he was about to go past and throw him into a chasm, or other fun things... plus he was rather an idiot and probably killed himself as often as I did by trying to use rockets while running all over at top speed.
Anyway, it is fun to torment cheaters.
-- "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Re:Some Common-Sense Solutions
by
jandrese
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Those Aimbot guys really annoyed me sometimes though. You go to all of the trouble to sneak up on the guy from behind (because he's a camper naturally), and then the railgun embedded in his back shoots you dead the instant you come into view. That's just weak, especially when you are then called a n00b buy the aimbot guy.
That's why I generally only play online with friends. I don't need that kind of BS.
--
I read the internet for the articles.
Re:Some Common-Sense Solutions
by
Joe+the+Lesser
·
· Score: 2, Funny
I am usually sufficiently gratified when I crush someone I suspect strongly of cheating by knowing it's probably some whiny 13 year old staring at his screen in impotent frustration to not really care about the other 9 out of 10 times he's beat me, not by skill but through some technology he most likely didn't create.
And then of course, when you finally beat him, he accuses you of cheating.:)
-- "I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
Re:Some Common-Sense Solutions
by
aiabx
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
That's why I generally only play online with friends.
That's the soliution that works best. If you play with people you trust, you not only escape all the misery and suspicion of dealing with cheaters (potential or actual), you get the pleasure of popping your buddy in the head with the railgun, and not some random dork in his mom's basement.
-aiabx
-- Just this guy, you know?
Re:Some Common-Sense Solutions
by
unicron
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Cheating is rather hallow. Whever some new cheat for CS comes out, I always grab it and play with it a bit before it gets patched. Granted, they're fun, and the technology is really coming along(some are at the point where they're in game gui's that come up and you select your cheat from a menu), but it's so unsatisfying. When I'm not cheating and I get some awesome 200 yard head shot or round a corner and put half a dozen shotgun shells into someones chest, it's satisfying. Tracking a guy through a wall and having the cheat auto-aim for his head and fire at will is funny..but I don't get anything from it. I can't say "Yeah, smoked that fucker" because I didn't, the cheat did.
And people that get caught are so fucking stupid. It's so easy to cheat and not get caught that I have to laugh at them. Usually if and when I cheat, I just wall hack, no auto-aim, and DEFINATELY no auto-fire. But I still see the same shit all the time: I'll be dead, ghosting the level, and some kid on one end of the level is firing sporatically and you can see that his gun keeps re-targeting someone that's seperated from him by half a dozen walls. Some of the more powerful rifles will even go through walls, and you'll see a guy just drop to his knees in a hallway with no one else in it. How bad do you suck that you need the game to fire for you?
-- Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
Most cheaters never prosper, that being because they're usually shunned, and they often just get bored of the game and leave, since where's the fun if there's no challenge?
Sure, you could get an hours worth of kicks out of hit at maximum, but there's a good chance you'd just get bored and leave.
However, there's a big twist here, that new gaming site, YouPlayGames may bring cheating to a whole new level. I've seen how crazy people get in Tournements, how they whine and bitch and some of them try to bend the rules, but at least in Tournements things are monitored. In this service, all you have is a bet, and there probably isn't any monitoring done (and even if you recorded the game, I'm sure your opponent could hide his cheating if he knew how to do it right and make it look natural). Since there is money involved, the cheaters will have a new reason to play, and that is for money. This will be a greater drive for people to implement more complex hacks, that make say, an AimBot look like the same sort of aim present in CAL-i CS players.
Takes the fun out of it
by
mao+che+minh
·
· Score: 3, Funny
I never saw the point in cheating, it just lessens the experience. I remember there was this one team of guys that used to use cheats and/or exploits in Operation Flashpoint. I never understood the logic: if you are playing a game for fun and challenge, how do you feel rewarded if you achieve victory unfairly?
For example, CNN reported that Iraqi forces were using wallhacks, and they have been camping in spots located well outside of the battle map/field where US missles can't reach. Totally unfair.
World + Models should be rendered in 1 pass.
by
Otis_INF
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Now, the worlds in most FPS games are rendered first, then the models and other entities are rendered, using clipping/depth buffer info of the world. A lot of engines use 2 different render routines to do this: the world is mostly static and uses a different routine than the model renderer.
THe result is, that when you 'patch' the world renderer so that it f.e. renders wireframes instead of solid polys (in OpenGL based engines this is 'not that hard', you just change the value passed to glBegin()) the models still are rendered solid, plus because most renderers for models rely on the depthbuffer filled during the world rendering, the models close to corners are fully rendered, since the depthbuffer is empty. So you can easily 'see' the models close to corners. If you also 'patch' the model renderer for not doing world clipping, you will see ALL models rendered in your window.
This can't be done if the world + models use a single render routine, i.e.: model polygons and world polygons are packed together as THE set of polygons to render, then the single render routine will eat these single pack of polys to render. If you patch the routine for wireframing, you will see the models also wireframed, if you patch out the world clipping, you will get the complete world in your window, not what you want.
I think in future game engines there will be a merger between world + model polygon sets, because worlds are more and more modfyable in game by the player, which in the end requires that the modifyable parts are 'models' too. However games based on the current crop of quake * engines will keep on suffering from this.
--
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
Sometimes it's OK, sometimes not
by
ParnBR
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
I think it's OK to exploit a game. If there's a loophole, sooner or later everyone will know about it. Although that may be later closed by the game's developer, it's not like someone has unfair advantage. That's in the rules. If the rules change, well, that's OK because everyone is affected by it. Much like the "grenades through walls" in Counter-Strike.
I also think it's OK if it's an inside, official cheat. I don't think this exists in online games, but if it exists, then it should be used. It's like it were in the rules.
But pure cheating is not OK. Yes, some people can be very successful at cheating, but they CAN be caught any time. Their fun is cheating, not playing by the rules. I believe it's OK to cheat in a game, but not at the expenses of the other players. If it detracts from other players' fun, it should be banned. If you want to play fair, it's really annoying when some other person is cheating and usually in a better position in the game than you.
As a side story: we have a card game in Brazil called "Truco" (I think it also exists in other countries) where it is allowed and even encouraged to cheat. But if you get caught you lose instantly or must pay some compensation. Usual cheats include signaling to the other player, hoarding cards or looking at cards before drawing them. You must keep your eyes peeled all the time. As you see, cheating is not really allowed, but you play the game with such a mindset that you expect a cheat anytime, and that's part of the game. It's fair in this context.
-- My neighbor's.sig is better than mine.
Re:Sometimes it's OK, sometimes not
by
Dr.+Manhattan
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Midwest US has a game called "Euchre"; the dealer has a slight statistical advantage. The deal is supposed to rotate with each hand, but sometimes players will work to "steal the deal" by skipping opponents and passing the deal on to their teammate. Considering it's usually played at parties with a lot of conversation and such, it can be easy for someone to forget that it's their turn to deal.
Generally the game is declared void if someone's caught after stealing the deal; but if you catch them before, you might continue with the game, wondering if you missed one before...
PunkBuster is just another piece of software. What stops it from being hacked just like the game?
You are right and Punkbuster has been circumvented and hacked in the past.
The difference however is that the company that developed the game seldom provide a good way to stop new cheats fast. PunkBuster provides protection against cheats, and does ONLY that while the developing companies might very well have moved on to different projects and so on...
--
True ravers don't need drugs
Re:read it here
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Reposting an article in its entirety does not consititute fair use. The new york times charges NOTHING for access to the article and has a minimal number of reasonable ads. It's possible to register without compromising one's own personal info--they are very liberal about it. The NY times site is slashdot-effect proof.
It's time slashdotters lived up to their own words and started frowning upon article-reposts like this. Otherwise, dont complain when the GPL is likewise ignored.
I hate cheaters
by
diablobynight
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
Especially in Counterstrike. I took down my counterstrike server because I spent half my time banning cheaters. The key thing I turned off was the ability to see anything after you died, I found players would ghost enimies and then relay this to their teamates sitting in the same room. It really pissed me off, because of an obvious reason, the dead shouldn't be able to talk to the living, (without a medium and a big seance).
I think cheating in one player games, like I did after I went through and beat Hitman 2 the first time, is fun. But people who cheat in online games, how do they even find it enjoyable. Have the fun of the game is the challenge, being able to cheat and win is stupid. Just develop your skills and get better.
All cheaters should have their IP and user name out on a CS ban list, that all CS servers will automatically view and then BAN those people.
-- Anonymous Cowards - Oh God, How I hate you
Re:read it here
by
benjiboo
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Karma whore! The annoying thing is that these posts always go to 5 - informative. The NY Times is unlikely to get slashdotted, and you're just depriving them of ad revenues etc.
-- Vacancy for signature. Apply within.
Re:Never Trust the Client
by
Sloppy
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Games like Quake are susceptible to aimbots.
Then it needs to just be part of the game. Quake is a virtual reality of a very high-tech world; it's only natural that the soldiers of that world have cybernetic enhancements and smart weapons.
Alas, this rationalization wouldn't work in a FPS game that models a low-tech world, like one where savages run around shooting each other with arrows, throwing daggers, etc.
-- As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Two kinds of cheating
by
Pejorian
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
Hey, I haven't seen anyone mentioning that there are two kinds of cheating. The Quake-style cheats that involve looking through walls or whatever are relatively harmless, mainly because most people can play Quake online for free, and unless someone is wagering on your performance, there's no cash rewards.
On-line game cheating in role-playing, especially subscription games is FAR more serious, because in some games, the currency or objects of power or weapons are worth real cash and can even be sold on e-bay (see the post with the e-bay link above) and it suddenly matters very much that some people are cheating.
-- - Murphy's Corollary: -
It is impossible to make things foolproof
because fools are so ingenious.
Just sounds more realistic than they expected the game to be:)
-- Karma Clown
Re:read it here
by
RobotRunAmok
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
I resent having demographic information pryed from me, personal information demanded of me, my email address handed out to lord knows who, having to remember yet another password and cope with yet another web designers maddening form verification script, all in exchange for the rare priviledge of reading the news.
Then why don't you drop some change at the news stand and buy yourself a dead-tree copy, Privacy-Boy?
Do you not think that the NYT deserves some form of compensation for publishing a story that drives so much discussion (and pageviews) on this site and elsewhere?
What do you do for a living, by the way? Or is it just that you're sixteen years old, and your perception of the world is that it revolves around you? (If so, my apologies; real life will straighten you out better than I ever could soon enough...)
We all know the best cheat ever.
by
Cheapoboy
·
· Score: 2, Funny
At the Title Screen press Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start.
pwned j00
It is already being done
by
doublem
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Gameshark
Codebreaker
There are others, but they do the same thing.
Boot form the CD. Select the cheats. Boot the game. The cheat program runs in memory changing values for you so you have lots of cash, lots of lives and so on.
-- "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
One of the players engaging in this automated counterfeiting, a 29-year-old financial planner from Texas, said he did so without apology (although he did not want to be identified by name). "I think the bots actually level the playing field for people who have day jobs," he said. "When I play an online game, I can't be the best because there are some college kids out there spending 14 hours a day."
Judging by his definition of leveling the playing field, he must have been an Anderson intern.
I have no problem with cheating...IFF!!!
by
Kakurenbo+Shogun
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
I don't think cheating is a problem IF AND ONLY IF everyone who's playing agrees that it's okay to cheat. In other words, if one of the rules is "you may use any methods you wish to gain an advantage--if you find a way to hack the game, more power to you", then great! It's a competition between hackers.
I think a partial solution to the problem would be for online game sites to have separate games where cheating is explicitly allowed. Lame-ass cheaters who don't have the guts to match their hacking skills against others will still cheat in the no-cheating games, but at least the cheaters who have confidence in their skills will participate in these games, because winning there will earn them legitimate respect from the community they have the most respect for.
If those who participate in the hacker games make some effort to create a culture that looks down on people who hack in the non-hacking games, that could help too.
People who cheat in games where cheating is not allowed by the rules are lame-ass selfish bastards with no character and a pathetic substitute for self-confidence. If they really feel like they've accomplished something by winning in a way that spoils the game for unsuspecting people who play by the rules, then I feel sorry for them.
Cheating is a social problem--
by
Cerebus
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
--and therefore requires a social solution.
As long as code executes on fundamentally untrusted platforms and as long as code is imperfect, there is no way to prevent cheating or exploiting in a multiplayer game. That's just the way it is; more technology isn't going to change it a whit, especially for
If we approach the problem socially, however, solutions present themselves.
Many games provide unique identifiers for each installation, like Half-Life/CounterStrike. This is usually an anti-piracy measure-- but we could use it to control cheating. Banning by unique ID is part of the solution, but not everything. Consider a solution modeled on USENET killfiles--
I join a game, and the client downloads the UIDs of the other connected players. The client compares this list against my personal list of people I don't like to play against (cheaters-- or maybe just obnoxious twits) and notifies me if any are in the game. I can then make an informed decision about whether to play there or look elsewhere.
Clients could also collaborate; if a player joins who's on my 'shit list,' I could allow the client to notify the other players. Perhaps even an automated voting scheme could be enabled-- a player UID thats on enough people's shit lists could be automatically banned (assuming the server allows it).
Yes, there would be a market for new UIDs, much as there is a market for CD keys. However, if the client makes it easy enough to maintain the shit list, that in and of itself is only a temporary problem. As a side-effect, if an ID gets widespread my client plonks the whole lot of cheaters with one entry.
The emergent behaviour of such a system would force all the cheaters to play each other on cheater-friendly servers. At that point, who cares? 8) I see this as a win-win scenario; cheaters get to cheat, and the rest of us don't get bothered.
Some games are partway there. Tribes2 and some CS admin mods have voting mechanisms that kick/ban players; but this doesn't carry over between servers, whereas the above scheme would.
A third-party tool would help, but to be really effective it needs to be integrated into the game client so that all players are using it.
-- -- Cerebus
Re:Cheating is a social problem--
by
Winterblink
·
· Score: 2
I almost hesitate to draw a parallel, but look at XBox Live. There we have a system of centrally managing not only user information but problem user reporting. Maybe they weren't being innovative in their idea, but at least they implemented it. Might be a step in the right direction for gaming as a whole.
-- "I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
Stealing what ?
by
Archfeld
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
I saw the banner ad, I did not click on it, I would not have anyways. The NY times has one less bogus entry in thier DB and I was educated. Where is the LOSS that is required for stealing ? If this is a crime it is like prostitution then.
-- errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Why Be a Cheater ?
by
DJ+FirBee
·
· Score: 3, Funny
How to ruin a 14 year olds day. Or a 30 year old.
Why be a cheater when it's more fun to TeamKill instead ??
Seriously, killing guys all day with wireframe and grenade hacks does not piss the otherr players off as much as team killing.
You have to get really psychological with the other players. Do a couple of team kills and explain that you are a newbie (having a name like Player 6 helps). Sorry man !! didn't mean to kill you!! I did not know where you were when I threw the grenade and so on...
After a while they will figure it out and team kill you and get the same server enforced penaltys (less money for weapons and whatnot).
Then you go into chat and start saying "what's your problem man ? Just trying to have some fun and being a dick.." During this phase don't team kill (just GET team killed).
Finally the last phase is when people trust you again to really open up the team killing whoopass.
Designers of the new Star Wars game initially planned to let players communicate in strange languages that would be translated by other players' computers, he said. But the developers soon realized that cheats would find a way to break into the hidden dictionary, gaining the ability to speak the various languages and negotiate with aliens from other planets - a skill that would normally develop only over time.
Have the LucasArts people seen the new Star Wars movies? The only alien languages would be "Broken English with Asian accent," "Broken English with Jamaican accent," "Broken English with Italian accent"...
If you ask the cheaters...
by
bluyonder
·
· Score: 3, Funny
wouldn't they cheat and just lie?
Cheating takes the fun out of it.
by
Restil
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Some comments to comments made in the article.
said he did so without apology (although he did not want to be identified by name)
This means you know what you're doing is wrong, and you have a great deal of shame for doing so. Otherwise, why would you care? Oh, maybe your account would get canceled, but that's a small price to pay for being right, isn't it?
While breaking the rules or using secret "cheat codes" has always been an accepted, even treasured part of single-player games,
Yes, sometimes you find insurmountable obstacles that cheating seems to be the only way around. But it's not true, you're just not trying hard enough. But by cheating, you rob yourself of the thrill of actually BEATING the damn thing. But once you start adding extra programs to "assist" you in playing the game, or exploit hidden bugs to give your character an unfair advantage, you've just admitted to yourself that you aren't good enough to play by the rules.
and when it becomes boring it is time to turn to the greater game of beating the system, they argue.
No, when it gets boring, that means its TIME TO STOP PLAYING! That's your brain telling you that it's time to get a life.
They fear that people would stop playing if those who cheated held all the power.
And ultimately this is true. However, all game companies aren't perfectly innocent in this regard. Cheaters may comprise a small percentage of the total player base, but it has appeared at times that reforming the cheaters seems to be of a higher priority than showing them where they can get off, and giving them a shove in that direction. Ultima Online went through this several times during the first few months. Kept giving amnesty to cheaters if they just gave back the stuff they obtained by cheating, or even warning them a few days before they would start checking. I say, day one, mention that all cheaters will be banned permanantly and immediately, no exceptions, no warnings, NOTHING. And in their defense, a lot of them say this, but there wouldn't be that many cheaters if they were serious about it.
In theory, this should give players many options and strategies to explore, but it could also lead to players' gaining monopolies.
And in the real world, monopolies are regulated.
Games also typically have a grey area, mentioned in the article. These are tricks you can do in the game that are within the rules and maybe even the spirit of the game, but have a result that was not planned for. FPS Speedrunners have long exploited these tricks without crossing the line into cheating. In Doom for instance, you had strafe running, wall grabs, wall running, rocketjumps, archie jumps, flipping switches that are "out of reach", clearing ledges that should have been too far, but aren't, etc. Of course, all of these tricks are generally more difficult than playing exactly as it was intended. Players have spent hours trying to perfect a trick that will save them a few seconds, just so they can shave a second or two off the record.
If a grey area is considered unfair, then it should be stated as such and fixed. In a perfect world, most such exploits and grey areas will be identified and removed during an extensive beta period, but beta periods have been traditionally too short, and game developers are caught with problems that they have to fix without upsetting a world that can't be reset. In games that end after 30-60 minutes, this isn't a problem, but for the games that go on forever, your options are limited.
Why cheating ticks me off
by
Quill_28
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
I _used_ to play Counter-Strike. But it took to much time too many cheaters.
Two reasons I haters cheaters.
When I made a great move or kill or too many kills in a short amount of time, people would call me a cheater. I would get tired of defending myself.
In other games(real basketball) when someone makes a nice move or shot/pass, I tell them so(Complimenting other players seems to keep egos in check, and thus more fun) The problem is in Counter-Strike I never know if they are cheating or not.
Thus is the end, is simply ruins the game.
What I do to users that cheat at my online games..
by
mustangdavis
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
Now I know that everyone that administers an online game handles cheaters differently, but here is what we like to do... (depending on how "bad" they have been)
First, deactivate their account(s)
Allow the other players to pick appart their characters, so that the people that "lost" something from these cheaters can enjoy a little revenge...
Rename their characters in a very colorful, but interesting way... example: General Pink Fuzzy Bunny of Candyland
Post in the forums who was caught cheating, what they did, any appropriate amount of proof, and what penalties they suffered from for cheating
Then, finally, sit back and allow the player community to embarass the person that cheated
Now, don't get me wrong... we're not terrible people. When a player in our game finds a bug, we reward them for reporting it to the proper moderator and for not exploiting it (other than to verify that they did, in fact, find a bug).
We only do the above nasty things to people when they ruin the experience for the other players... and if they do it intentionally. We do our best to squash any time of bug or imperfection in game balance as soon as it is located, but no game is perfect... and there will always be people out there that are going to ruin games for an entire gaming community just for a laugh, so we allow the community to retain some sort of dignity by allowing them to have the last laugh....
It may not be the perfect answer, but most of the people playing my games seem to enjoy it...
Begin Ranting and Raving
My thought on cheating, especially with games, is simple: Why would you spend hours and hours playing a game that doesn't provide a challenge? If you cheat, it takes away the feeling of accomplishment that you have when you're done playing... whether you win or lose... since all you have done is proven that you don't have the skill to win; that you have to cheat in order to feel the "thrill of victory"... and that you are so selfish and self-centered that you don't take into account that there are other people playing against you, people that have invested their time and effort, that have just wasted their time so that you can prove that you suck so bad at a game that you have to cheat...
So again, what is the point of cheating?... to prove that you an untalented, selfish ass???
And online life mirrors real life yet again...
by
irritating+environme
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Gee, what a surprise.
If a sufficient percentage of people cheat, the entire system falls apart.
That never happens in real life. Unfortunately, I can't switch servers with my wet body. Or can I? Maybe if I moved to Australia...
Once again, (glass half empty) the online world shows humanity to be tragically and irreparably flawed. No good deed goes unpunished in this world.
--
Hey, I'm just your average shit and piss factory.
Proposed solution - Handle more on the server side
by
zapp
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
I'm not all too familiar with the multiplayer gaming infrastructure, but I am a 4th year computer science student... so I think this makes sense.
How about The server keeps track of positions of all the clients, and does some vector math on calculating visibily before even transmitting coordinates to the clients? With the fast-as-hell CPU's we have out there now, I'm sure this could be pulled off with VERY little slowdown. This reduces network traffic by not sending everyone everyone else's position, but also... so what if player X does have a see through walls hack? If the server doesn't tell Player X where Player Y is, he still can't see him.
Any Thoughts?
Oh, and by the way... I knew a guy doing transparent wall hacks back before 3d accel cards were even invented, it's not news:)
-- no comment
It is easy to prevent cheating.
by
IdeaMan
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Step 1: Create unbeatable CD-key mechanism. Ala Diablo 2. Step 2: Create an RBL style list of cheaters.
Cheat = global ban, means that no-one would dare run cheats.
-- They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.
Re:Here comes the old "leveling the field" argumen
by
Richy_T
·
· Score: 2, Funny
Ah, the "Tonya Harding" justification.
Rich
Re:read it here
by
Patrick13
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
my email address handed out to lord knows who
You know I have had a NYT id since 1996, I used "nyt@", and I have never ever gotten a spam from them.
The NYT sets a cookie, so you don't have to constantly relogin, assuming you use the same computer.
Its not difficult. I had more trouble setting up my KDE desktop than I had registering for the times. The Times, by the way is Lynx compatible, which, when I only had dial up, was my preferred way to surf news sites. I also did the entire registration in lynx.
So, WTF are you talking about, exactly? These sound an awful lot like whiney excuses from someone who thinks its cool to bitch about the injustice of the NYT required registration.
I have an idea, go to your local newstand, and just read the entire paper there without paying for it.
Yes, I realize you've posted AC. I suppose this means you didn't register here because that would mean giving Slashdot your email, god knows you wouldn't want them selling your email to lord knows who...
Slashdot Mirror
Anyone have a log and pass for the NY Times site!?
Anyone care to add up these total sales?
...and the first NYtimes cheat code is... :)
UP-Down-Left-Right-Select-START!! (Correct Link!)
How would you catch a cheater?
Not sure what you mean. I dont play MMORPGS or RTS.. Im a first person shooter kinda guy.. but when I get on Quake3 server, adn I see one score of 300 and the rest are around 30, its a clue.. and when you see the skin standing in the wide open firing faster than any human could shoot and spin, with rails apparently coming out its ass, you get a clue that this is what is going on.
usually, I suspect those bots are actually _on_ the server. But Punkbuster helps..
Playing UT23K I havent seen much trouble.. the game seems much more even and better than Quake(s) ever were.
But Im sure there are people scripting things for Evercrack, and letting them run overnight. And buying and selling items on Ebay.. or running six player accounts, and then transferring things to each other.. but I guess thats part of the game. There is always some moron who just isnt happy that he isnt as good as the next guy, and feels the need to "even" the playing field for himself.
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
I'm a fan of the game Urban Terror, a mod for Quake 3, and play online a fair bit (I usually run Visual Studio on one monitor, UT on the other: One good thing about being a rambo player in team survivor games is that I'm dead the majority of the time, and hence find it to actually be a remarkably productive time): While recently an anti-cheat tool, PunkBuster was added to Q3 (and it is constantly updated), there is still a serious issue of cheaters, the most common among them being wallhackers. What is a wallhacker? Well it's what was mentioned in the summary: Wire frame worlds, allowing cheating players to view other players whereever they are on the map, obviously giving a pretty clear advantage.
So what does this have to do with the honesty of surveillance? Well in team survivor when you die you can ghost other players as they move around the map, and it tends to be that wallhackers are discovered quite quickly--Their behaviour and actions in the game do not correlate with the information that they should be visually receiving (from what we can see ghosting them). Usually this quickly leads to cries of cheater and a vote to kick the offending player.
In terms of being "better" at the game than others, but part of the question should be is it cheating, or just another game.
Someone who buys or downloads a cheat that someone else made is a different deal, and clearly some of those people are pretty sad individuals who just want to say "ha ha fragged you", before never ever having sex with anyone.
However the person who creates the cheat, who engages in what can be described as espionage against the game developer is playing a different game of skill, that person is learning things, developing things and playing their own game with their own rules and "winning" by being able to cheat. The challenge here isn't to be better at Quake, but to be able to cheat the best at Quake, that in itself is a game.
How about an open game in which these developers play their cheats off against each other using the best players without cheats as the players in the game. That way you can find out who developed the best cheat.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Wasn't there a driver several years ago for a video card that allowed somehting like this? (Ok found /. story here.)
Why modify the game where they might be able to detect it when you can just play with drivers to do the same thing (assuming the game is sending all that to the video card already)
I'm not sure about how the Xbox handles games (how much does it load on the hard disk?), but wouldn't consoles which run the software off of a non-rewritable medium (PS2/Gamecube) be ideal for online gaming since then the distributor can control what software is on everyone's machine?
Galium Arsenide is the material of the future, and always will be.
- iddqd
- idkroz
- idkfa
That was fun. Load up on the berzerk pak, and god mode. Then run around smooshing imps. I used to cheat on all my old single-player games, Descent, Duke Nukem, Shadow Warrior. But that was just me, not me vs some other real person, that doesn't like it when I'm invincible, and got the rocketlauncher with unlimited rockets.Cheats on the internet probably shouldn't be allowed, it'll just piss people off.
find ~your -name '*base* | xargs chown
cheating itself is not such a problem. I remember using tainers in Diablo so that I could just go in and kill some monsters. I never PKed, or went into games where they said 'cheaters not welcome'. I went off with a few friends into the caves in nightmare mode. It was a gore fest and it really was fun!
I think the issue is decency more than cheating. There will always be a few who wish to gain a 'competitive advantage' somehow, making life difficult for the average joe. This isn't the case just in games... look at our law books and you'll see what I mean.
- Tempestdata
Cheat me once, shame on you. Cheat me twice, shame on me. If I continue to play against cheaters, or people who continuously kick my butt, where probability should demand a more balanced percentage of win/loss, it's my own fault. Better to play honest people like me, who play for the fun of playing, not for some thrill of cheating fellow players.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I'm working, in my copious spare time, on a cheat-resistant comm library. Someone is sure to beat me to it.
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
Others reprogram their video cards to hide the elaborate textured walls in a game. All that is left is a wire-frame outline, allowing a player to see through walls and track those hiding behind them.
If you can reprogram your video card then you wouldn't even HAVE to cheat.
You already are "The One"
PlanetQuake? ^_^
:>
This article seems rather dated when discussing the FPS cheat-em-ups. Punkbuster has been dead in the water since early 2001. VAC is just now gradually working at bridging the gap between legitimate players and cheat-free bliss. Still buggier than a Brit tho.
Then again, it is poignant to observe the Q2-era cheats. When the mood strikes, and an old Q2 vet hits up the few Lith servers left on the Net, he is greeted typically with one or more players OBVIOUSLY craxing and haxing. Still going strong. The CS community is one which works hardest, imho, at a social more and communal interest in enforcing a 'policy' of sorts that cheating just sucks and work has to be done.
What college is this that you can play games 14 hours a day and still pass? Everyone I know that did that either failed out or is taking so few credits they might as well have dropped out. College kids, I fear not. 12-year olds who have nothing to do all summer long, I fear.
Note, I'm not a really hard-core gamer or expert, so take this with a grain of salt, but...
Cheating in online games is always going to be a problem. You won't solve it, but can at least reduce it to the point where a server admin can deal with individual accusations.
-Only send each client information it really needs.
-Use checksums on binaries and libraries and things.
-Try to get more 'mature' gaming crowds together. I have noticed vast difference playing Battlefield 1942 at various times during the day, such as when it's mostly high school kids, or people with jobs who start playing after dinner, whatever.
-Make it clear that cheating sucks and won't be tolerated--this can help catch the remaining people with aimbot screen overlays and things that automated means won't take care of.
Netrek used some anti-cheating mechanism, by embedding an RSA key in every "authorized" client, to which only a few developers known to the "RSA guy" and the Netrek community as a whole had access. Imperfect system, but it reduced use of bots to the point where it didn't really matter.
Also, one thing that a lot of people forget is that a lot of 'active' cheats (mainly bots in action games) fall into one of two categories:
a) Fully-automated -- these are predictable.
b) Partially automated -- things like aimbots. Their "owners" probably suck otherwise. If they see you, they'll get off a clean shot, but you don't have to confront them directly to smash them.
I am usually sufficiently gratified when I crush someone I suspect strongly of cheating by knowing it's probably some whiny 13 year old staring at his screen in impotent frustration to not really care about the other 9 out of 10 times he's beat me, not by skill but through some technology he most likely didn't create.
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
It can be, if the gamers in question are always logged on as root instead of setting up a user account with normal user access...
Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON, DUDES!
Most cheaters never prosper, that being because they're usually shunned, and they often just get bored of the game and leave, since where's the fun if there's no challenge?
Sure, you could get an hours worth of kicks out of hit at maximum, but there's a good chance you'd just get bored and leave.
However, there's a big twist here, that new gaming site, YouPlayGames may bring cheating to a whole new level. I've seen how crazy people get in Tournements, how they whine and bitch and some of them try to bend the rules, but at least in Tournements things are monitored. In this service, all you have is a bet, and there probably isn't any monitoring done (and even if you recorded the game, I'm sure your opponent could hide his cheating if he knew how to do it right and make it look natural). Since there is money involved, the cheaters will have a new reason to play, and that is for money. This will be a greater drive for people to implement more complex hacks, that make say, an AimBot look like the same sort of aim present in CAL-i CS players.
For example, CNN reported that Iraqi forces were using wallhacks, and they have been camping in spots located well outside of the battle map/field where US missles can't reach. Totally unfair.
Now, the worlds in most FPS games are rendered first, then the models and other entities are rendered, using clipping /depth buffer info of the world. A lot of engines use 2 different render routines to do this: the world is mostly static and uses a different routine than the model renderer.
THe result is, that when you 'patch' the world renderer so that it f.e. renders wireframes instead of solid polys (in OpenGL based engines this is 'not that hard', you just change the value passed to glBegin()) the models still are rendered solid, plus because most renderers for models rely on the depthbuffer filled during the world rendering, the models close to corners are fully rendered, since the depthbuffer is empty. So you can easily 'see' the models close to corners. If you also 'patch' the model renderer for not doing world clipping, you will see ALL models rendered in your window.
This can't be done if the world + models use a single render routine, i.e.: model polygons and world polygons are packed together as THE set of polygons to render, then the single render routine will eat these single pack of polys to render. If you patch the routine for wireframing, you will see the models also wireframed, if you patch out the world clipping, you will get the complete world in your window, not what you want.
I think in future game engines there will be a merger between world + model polygon sets, because worlds are more and more modfyable in game by the player, which in the end requires that the modifyable parts are 'models' too. However games based on the current crop of quake * engines will keep on suffering from this.
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
I think it's OK to exploit a game. If there's a loophole, sooner or later everyone will know about it. Although that may be later closed by the game's developer, it's not like someone has unfair advantage. That's in the rules. If the rules change, well, that's OK because everyone is affected by it. Much like the "grenades through walls" in Counter-Strike.
I also think it's OK if it's an inside, official cheat. I don't think this exists in online games, but if it exists, then it should be used. It's like it were in the rules.
But pure cheating is not OK. Yes, some people can be very successful at cheating, but they CAN be caught any time. Their fun is cheating, not playing by the rules. I believe it's OK to cheat in a game, but not at the expenses of the other players. If it detracts from other players' fun, it should be banned. If you want to play fair, it's really annoying when some other person is cheating and usually in a better position in the game than you.
As a side story: we have a card game in Brazil called "Truco" (I think it also exists in other countries) where it is allowed and even encouraged to cheat. But if you get caught you lose instantly or must pay some compensation. Usual cheats include signaling to the other player, hoarding cards or looking at cards before drawing them. You must keep your eyes peeled all the time. As you see, cheating is not really allowed, but you play the game with such a mindset that you expect a cheat anytime, and that's part of the game. It's fair in this context.
My neighbor's
PunkBuster is just another piece of software. What stops it from being hacked just like the game?
You are right and Punkbuster has been circumvented and hacked in the past.
The difference however is that the company that developed the game seldom provide a good way to stop new cheats fast. PunkBuster provides protection against cheats, and does ONLY that while the developing companies might very well have moved on to different projects and so on...
True ravers don't need drugs
It's time slashdotters lived up to their own words and started frowning upon article-reposts like this. Otherwise, dont complain when the GPL is likewise ignored.
Those Nethack cheaters finally confessed!
Note to self: get smarter troll to guard door.
Especially in Counterstrike. I took down my counterstrike server because I spent half my time banning cheaters. The key thing I turned off was the ability to see anything after you died, I found players would ghost enimies and then relay this to their teamates sitting in the same room. It really pissed me off, because of an obvious reason, the dead shouldn't be able to talk to the living, (without a medium and a big seance). I think cheating in one player games, like I did after I went through and beat Hitman 2 the first time, is fun. But people who cheat in online games, how do they even find it enjoyable. Have the fun of the game is the challenge, being able to cheat and win is stupid. Just develop your skills and get better. All cheaters should have their IP and user name out on a CS ban list, that all CS servers will automatically view and then BAN those people.
Anonymous Cowards - Oh God, How I hate you
Karma whore! The annoying thing is that these posts always go to 5 - informative. The NY Times is unlikely to get slashdotted, and you're just depriving them of ad revenues etc.
Vacancy for signature. Apply within.
Alas, this rationalization wouldn't work in a FPS game that models a low-tech world, like one where savages run around shooting each other with arrows, throwing daggers, etc.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Hey, I haven't seen anyone mentioning that there are two kinds of cheating. The Quake-style cheats that involve looking through walls or whatever are relatively harmless, mainly because most people can play Quake online for free, and unless someone is wagering on your performance, there's no cash rewards.
On-line game cheating in role-playing, especially subscription games is FAR more serious, because in some games, the currency or objects of power or weapons are worth real cash and can even be sold on e-bay (see the post with the e-bay link above) and it suddenly matters very much that some people are cheating.
- Murphy's Corollary: - It is impossible to make things foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
People trying to device get-rich-quick schemes?
:)
Just sounds more realistic than they expected the game to be
Karma Clown
I resent having demographic information pryed from me, personal information demanded of me, my email address handed out to lord knows who, having to remember yet another password and cope with yet another web designers maddening form verification script, all in exchange for the rare priviledge of reading the news.
Then why don't you drop some change at the news stand and buy yourself a dead-tree copy, Privacy-Boy?
Do you not think that the NYT deserves some form of compensation for publishing a story that drives so much discussion (and pageviews) on this site and elsewhere?
What do you do for a living, by the way? Or is it just that you're sixteen years old, and your perception of the world is that it revolves around you? (If so, my apologies; real life will straighten you out better than I ever could soon enough...)
At the Title Screen press Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start. pwned j00
Gameshark
Codebreaker
There are others, but they do the same thing.
Boot form the CD. Select the cheats. Boot the game. The cheat program runs in memory changing values for you so you have lots of cash, lots of lives and so on.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
One of the players engaging in this automated counterfeiting, a 29-year-old financial planner from Texas, said he did so without apology (although he did not want to be identified by name). "I think the bots actually level the playing field for people who have day jobs," he said. "When I play an online game, I can't be the best because there are some college kids out there spending 14 hours a day."
Judging by his definition of leveling the playing field, he must have been an Anderson intern.
I think a partial solution to the problem would be for online game sites to have separate games where cheating is explicitly allowed. Lame-ass cheaters who don't have the guts to match their hacking skills against others will still cheat in the no-cheating games, but at least the cheaters who have confidence in their skills will participate in these games, because winning there will earn them legitimate respect from the community they have the most respect for.
If those who participate in the hacker games make some effort to create a culture that looks down on people who hack in the non-hacking games, that could help too.
People who cheat in games where cheating is not allowed by the rules are lame-ass selfish bastards with no character and a pathetic substitute for self-confidence. If they really feel like they've accomplished something by winning in a way that spoils the game for unsuspecting people who play by the rules, then I feel sorry for them.
Convert RSS to HTML - integrate webfeeds into your website
--and therefore requires a social solution.
As long as code executes on fundamentally untrusted platforms and as long as code is imperfect, there is no way to prevent cheating or exploiting in a multiplayer game. That's just the way it is; more technology isn't going to change it a whit, especially for
If we approach the problem socially, however, solutions present themselves.
Many games provide unique identifiers for each installation, like Half-Life/CounterStrike. This is usually an anti-piracy measure-- but we could use it to control cheating. Banning by unique ID is part of the solution, but not everything. Consider a solution modeled on USENET killfiles--
I join a game, and the client downloads the UIDs of the other connected players. The client compares this list against my personal list of people I don't like to play against (cheaters-- or maybe just obnoxious twits) and notifies me if any are in the game. I can then make an informed decision about whether to play there or look elsewhere.
Clients could also collaborate; if a player joins who's on my 'shit list,' I could allow the client to notify the other players. Perhaps even an automated voting scheme could be enabled-- a player UID thats on enough people's shit lists could be automatically banned (assuming the server allows it).
Yes, there would be a market for new UIDs, much as there is a market for CD keys. However, if the client makes it easy enough to maintain the shit list, that in and of itself is only a temporary problem. As a side-effect, if an ID gets widespread my client plonks the whole lot of cheaters with one entry.
The emergent behaviour of such a system would force all the cheaters to play each other on cheater-friendly servers. At that point, who cares? 8) I see this as a win-win scenario; cheaters get to cheat, and the rest of us don't get bothered.
Some games are partway there. Tribes2 and some CS admin mods have voting mechanisms that kick/ban players; but this doesn't carry over between servers, whereas the above scheme would.
A third-party tool would help, but to be really effective it needs to be integrated into the game client so that all players are using it.
-- Cerebus
I saw the banner ad, I did not click on it, I would not have anyways. The NY times has one less bogus entry in thier DB and I was educated. Where is the LOSS that is required for stealing ? If this is a crime it is like prostitution then.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
How to ruin a 14 year olds day. Or a 30 year old.
...
.." During this phase don't team kill (just GET team killed).
....
Why be a cheater when it's more fun to TeamKill instead ??
Seriously, killing guys all day with wireframe and grenade hacks does not piss the otherr players off as much as team killing.
You have to get really psychological with the other players. Do a couple of team kills and explain that you are a newbie (having a name like Player 6 helps). Sorry man !! didn't mean to kill you!! I did not know where you were when I threw the grenade and so on
After a while they will figure it out and team kill you and get the same server enforced penaltys (less money for weapons and whatnot).
Then you go into chat and start saying "what's your problem man ? Just trying to have some fun and being a dick
Finally the last phase is when people trust you again to really open up the team killing whoopass.
This is so damn fun
Have the LucasArts people seen the new Star Wars movies? The only alien languages would be "Broken English with Asian accent," "Broken English with Jamaican accent," "Broken English with Italian accent"...
wouldn't they cheat and just lie?
Some comments to comments made in the article.
said he did so without apology (although he did not want to be identified by name)
This means you know what you're doing is wrong, and you have a great deal of shame for doing so. Otherwise, why would you care? Oh, maybe your account would get canceled, but that's a small price to pay for being right, isn't it?
While breaking the rules or using secret "cheat codes" has always been an accepted, even treasured part of single-player games,
Yes, sometimes you find insurmountable obstacles that cheating seems to be the only way around. But it's not true, you're just not trying hard enough. But by cheating, you rob yourself of the thrill of actually BEATING the damn thing. But once you start adding extra programs to "assist" you in playing the game, or exploit hidden bugs to give your character an unfair advantage, you've just admitted to yourself that you aren't good enough to play by the rules.
and when it becomes boring it is time to turn to the greater game of beating the system, they argue.
No, when it gets boring, that means its TIME TO STOP PLAYING! That's your brain telling you that it's time to get a life.
They fear that people would stop playing if those who cheated held all the power.
And ultimately this is true. However, all game companies aren't perfectly innocent in this regard. Cheaters may comprise a small percentage of the total player base, but it has appeared at times that reforming the cheaters seems to be of a higher priority than showing them where they can get off, and giving them a shove in that direction. Ultima Online went through this several times during the first few months. Kept giving amnesty to cheaters if they just gave back the stuff they obtained by cheating, or even warning them a few days before they would start checking. I say, day one, mention that all cheaters will be banned permanantly and immediately, no exceptions, no warnings, NOTHING. And in their defense, a lot of them say this, but there wouldn't be that many cheaters if they were serious about it.
In theory, this should give players many options and strategies to explore, but it could also lead to players' gaining monopolies.
And in the real world, monopolies are regulated.
Games also typically have a grey area, mentioned in the article. These are tricks you can do in the game that are within the rules and maybe even the spirit of the game, but have a result that was not planned for. FPS Speedrunners have long exploited these tricks without crossing the line into cheating. In Doom for instance, you had strafe running, wall grabs, wall running, rocketjumps, archie jumps, flipping switches that are "out of reach", clearing ledges that should have been too far, but aren't, etc. Of course, all of these tricks are generally more difficult than playing exactly as it was intended. Players have spent hours trying to perfect a trick that will save them a few seconds, just so they can shave a second or two off the record.
If a grey area is considered unfair, then it should be stated as such and fixed. In a perfect world, most such exploits and grey areas will be identified and removed during an extensive beta period, but beta periods have been traditionally too short, and game developers are caught with problems that they have to fix without upsetting a world that can't be reset. In games that end after 30-60 minutes, this isn't a problem, but for the games that go on forever, your options are limited.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
I _used_ to play Counter-Strike.
But it took to much time too many cheaters.
Two reasons I haters cheaters.
When I made a great move or kill or too many kills in a short amount of time, people would call me a cheater. I would get tired of defending myself.
In other games(real basketball) when someone makes a nice move or shot/pass, I tell them so(Complimenting other players seems to keep egos in check, and thus more fun)
The problem is in Counter-Strike I never know if they are cheating or not.
Thus is the end, is simply ruins the game.
I run several massively multiplayer, free, web based online games (WWII - War of Supremacy - war.coldfirestudios.com and Space - Glory Through Conquest - space.coldfirestudios.com to name a couple)
Now I know that everyone that administers an online game handles cheaters differently, but here is what we like to do
Now, don't get me wrong
We only do the above nasty things to people when they ruin the experience for the other players
It may not be the perfect answer, but most of the people playing my games seem to enjoy it
Begin Ranting and Raving
My thought on cheating, especially with games, is simple: Why would you spend hours and hours playing a game that doesn't provide a challenge? If you cheat, it takes away the feeling of accomplishment that you have when you're done playing
So again, what is the point of cheating?
HallmarkOrnaments.Com
Gee, what a surprise.
If a sufficient percentage of people cheat, the entire system falls apart.
That never happens in real life. Unfortunately, I can't switch servers with my wet body. Or can I? Maybe if I moved to Australia...
Once again, (glass half empty) the online world shows humanity to be tragically and irreparably flawed. No good deed goes unpunished in this world.
Hey, I'm just your average shit and piss factory.
I'm not all too familiar with the multiplayer gaming infrastructure, but I am a 4th year computer science student... so I think this makes sense.
:)
How about The server keeps track of positions of all the clients, and does some vector math on calculating visibily before even transmitting coordinates to the clients? With the fast-as-hell CPU's we have out there now, I'm sure this could be pulled off with VERY little slowdown. This reduces network traffic by not sending everyone everyone else's position, but also... so what if player X does have a see through walls hack? If the server doesn't tell Player X where Player Y is, he still can't see him.
Any Thoughts?
Oh, and by the way... I knew a guy doing transparent wall hacks back before 3d accel cards were even invented, it's not news
no comment
Step 1: Create unbeatable CD-key mechanism. Ala Diablo 2.
Step 2: Create an RBL style list of cheaters.
Cheat = global ban, means that no-one would dare run cheats.
They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.
Rich
my email address handed out to lord knows who
You know I have had a NYT id since 1996, I used "nyt@", and I have never ever gotten a spam from them.
The NYT sets a cookie, so you don't have to constantly relogin, assuming you use the same computer.
Its not difficult. I had more trouble setting up my KDE desktop than I had registering for the times. The Times, by the way is Lynx compatible, which, when I only had dial up, was my preferred way to surf news sites. I also did the entire registration in lynx.
So, WTF are you talking about, exactly? These sound an awful lot like whiney excuses from someone who thinks its cool to bitch about the injustice of the NYT required registration.
I have an idea, go to your local newstand, and just read the entire paper there without paying for it.
Yes, I realize you've posted AC. I suppose this means you didn't register here because that would mean giving Slashdot your email, god knows you wouldn't want them selling your email to lord knows who...
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