New XCOR Rocket Engine Passes First Test

apsmith writes "XCOR Aerospace just successfully test-fired their new liquid oxygen/kerosene rocket engine. This is significantly more powerful than the engines used in the XCOR EZ-Rocket vehicle, and will be further developed for use in the Xerus suborbital vehicle. XCOR is one of the serious X-Prize contenders, and partly funded by John Carmack of Id and Armadillo Aerospace (Carmack's in-his-free-time X-prize contender)."

Comments

Cost Effective?

[Hayzeus]

So, will this be a cost effective way to launch Lance Bass into space?

Note that omitting a reentry vehicle could substantially save on fuel costs.

Re:Cost Effective?

[Anonvmous Coward]

"So, will this be a cost effective way to launch Lance Bass into space?"

Absolutely. We'd all contribute to that fund. The real question is whether or not it'd be a cost effective way to send anything else into space.

Re:Cost Effective?

[torpor]

Dunno about Lance Bass, but give me a sufficiently well-built environment-suit - something like a 'mini-shuttle', just for me, and I'd be quite happy to strap on a couple of these rockets and blast off into wherever it takes me.

I don't understand why the spacesuit guys don't team up with the rocket guys and just combine the two into something small and feasible, designed to get *just one body* into orbit.

Who needs a cockpit? Just give me a good suit with rockets on it.

That's one small boost for man,..

[DarkBlackFox]

...and one step closer to getting me off this rock.

Re:That's one small boost for man,..

[ConsoleDeamon]

page me when you find a way off this rock. im stuck here to.

Re:That's one small boost for man,..

[Rolo Tomasi]

Well, there's always one way.

What do you reckon..

[nath_o_brien]

...their new liquid oxygen/kerosene rocket engine

What do you reckon the chances are of me being able to get hold of one of these babies for my car?

Re:What do you reckon..

[suitti]

Their engine is tested horizontally, mounted on a wheeled trailer. See image

X-Prize is cool

[vivek7006]

"For more than 30 years, the general public has waited for an opportunity to enjoy the space frontier on a first-hand basis. The X PRIZE Foundation is working to make space travel possible for all. The spaceships that compete for the X PRIZE are designed to carry passengers."

Uhrm...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm as likely to ride on something called "EZ-Rocket" as I am on "Valujet". Isn't rocket science supposed to be... uhrm, rocket science?

Re:Uhrm...

[at_kernel_99]

The name of the EZ rocket was likely borrowed from the name of the aircraft in which the motor was installed. Long EZ. Big brother to the Vari EZ. Both designed by a man named Burt Rutan, also known for designing a little plane called the Voyager. Flew the longest closed circuit un-refueled flight a few years back (that'd be Edwards AFB -> Edwards AFB, the Long way around). In other news, I was able to see a test-firing of the alcohol version of the rocket a couple years ago. Very cool stuff. The demonstrated the hot restart, which I believe is one of the more innovative aspects of the Xcor design. That thing is friggin loud though, even with the ears plugged. While it was only a small version, there's nothing quite like standing 10 feet away from a rocket during a test firing.

Only one word to describe this news...

[TopShelf]

X-ellent!!!

And to think...

[Anonymous Coward]

He wasted his time writeing games.

I can hear it now

[novakane007]

"Geeks! In Space!!!"

Danger???

[st0rmcold]

I'm no scientist, but I am aware that liquid oxygen or LOX as it's reffered tho happens to be compressed oxygen (approx. 4000 times the amount that in the air), and this will dramatically increase the speed that a shuttle will be incinerated during a disaster, as the LOX will feed the explosions.

With advancements comes risk in my opinion.

Anybody who knows more then me, would be able to soothe my thoughts and tell me someone on such a shuttle would have a chance of survival is this were to leak?

Re:Danger???

[bmongar]

To me it is kind of like the difference between droping a 10 ton rock on you or a 50 ton rock. Either way you are dead. the 50 ton rock doesn't make you deader. If 'regular' rocket fuel caught fire the mission is toast no real chance for escape, same with the LOX

Re:Danger???

[Anonymous Coward]

A good part of the big orange fuel tank on the shuttle is already filled with liquid oxygen. The other part is filled with liquid hydrogen. They both explode real well, excessively well when mixed together (which is why they work as rocket fuel.) It's pretty hard to have a rocket without explosive fuel. A rocket is basically a (barely) controlled explosion.

Re:Danger???

[Migraineman]

Oxygen, by itself, won't hurt you. If the O2 tank leaks, you end up breathing a slightly more oxygen-rich atmosphere. The EZ-Rocket carries the O2 tank in place of the passenger seat, primarily because it won't kill the pilot if it vents.

The fuel (alcohol in earlier prototypes, kerosene for this one) is carried in a separate tank slung below the fuselage. It's outside the aircraft frame.

If you've taken fire safety training, you know that there are three components that are required for a fire - fuel, oxidizer, and heat. Remove any one, and you don't have a fire. When you're fueling you car, the gasonline doesn't spontaneously ignite with the oxygen in the air, right? Add heat and you've got a fire, though.

So, if you keep the fuel, oxidizer and heat in controlled environments, you'll survive the flight just fine. If the O2 tank ruptures, you should probably worry more about schrapnel or the overpressure.

Re:Danger???

[SuperBanana]

I'm no scientist, but I am aware that liquid oxygen or LOX as it's reffered tho happens to be compressed oxygen (approx. 4000 times the amount that in the air), and this will dramatically increase the speed that a shuttle will be incinerated during a disaster, as the LOX will feed the explosions.

The current shuttle uses liquid oxygen, by the way, along with(surprise) liquid hydrogen. Together they fuel the orbiter's engines. The boosters on the side are solid-fuel motors and once they're lit, they don't go out until the fuel's burned.

Incidentally, every rocket fuel of one kind or another has to have some oxidizer, or it won't work in space(think that one through.) Most rockets for non-space applications have oxidizers, too, because it's hard to get oxygen from the air mixed in with fuel fast/well enough to be useful(this is why ramjets were so 'neat', they don't need to carry oxidizer, but can generate enormous amounts of thrust at incredible speeds.)

The orbiter also uses hydrazine for the auxiliary power units and firing thrusters(I think), and a half dozen other things that go 'boom' or are very nasty. That's the whole point behind rocket fuel- burning it has to release a LOT of energy for its weight.

Re:Danger???

[kramer2718]

There has to be some oxidizer in a rocket. Otherwise it would be a jet and would not be able to leave the confines of the atmosphere. The other option besides carrying an oxidizers such as oxygen is to carry a fuel that serves both as fuel and oxidizer such as peroxide (H2O2). I belive that this group was actually planning to use peroxide as a fuel, but couldn't find a source.

Re:Danger???

[stratjakt]

>> When you're fueling you car, the gasonline doesn't spontaneously ignite with the oxygen in the air, right? Add heat and you've got a fire, though

Sometimes it does, and it doesnt require heat so much as a source of ignition, which could (and has) come from something as innocuous as a cell phone or PDA. Granted, there's heat produced
in the spark, but my point is people seem to think you need an open flame to ignite gasoline.

Refueling fires are something that's going to become more and more of a problem, as self-serve gas stations are now ubiquitous, and few motorists understand or practice even the most basic safety procedures.

Noone should be in the vehicle while fueling, it should be off (that means all electrical systems like stereos and video games and turn signals) and there should be no source of ignition in the vicinity.

And yet, just today while gassing up, I saw some tool filling his tank with a lit cigarette in his mouth, and two young kids in the back seat (right over the tank).

end of rant.

Re:Danger???

[Bill Currie]

Or oxygen poisoning. Oxygen isn't the harmless substance many seem to think it is: it's quite toxic even to us. Too much will blind you then kill you (there may be some other effects involved as well) and it doesn't take all that much more than than the ~3 lb/sqin (partial pressue) we currently breath, though I'm not sure what level at which oxygen becomes harful to us.

Re:Danger???

[mdielmann]

Anybody who knows more then me, would be able to soothe my thoughts and tell me someone on such a shuttle would have a chance of survival is this were to leak?

Given the track record of the US shuttle (0 survivors out of 2 explosions, one actually involving LOX), I'd say none.

Re:Danger???

[Thag]

Incidentally, every rocket fuel of one kind or another has to have some oxidizer, or it won't work in space(think that one through.)

Most do, but not all. Hydrogen Peroxide is often used by itself as a monopropellant rocket fuel, for instance: just run it past a platinum screen and it reacts all on its own, no air required. However, it doesn't put out nearly as much thrust as kerosene and LOX.

Jon Acheson

Re:Danger???

[Qzukk]

Oxygen Poisoning info

It looks like oxygen toxicity begins at about 10 times sea-level partial pressure of oxygen (article cites 29 lb/sqin). How stuff works explains that the process is very dependent on both pressure (not % of atmosphere!) and time. Early astronauts used 100% oxygen atmospheres at a low pressure without any problems.

Re:Danger???

[PD]

Self serve stations have been the standard for the past 25 years here. I doubt that the number of fueling fires is going to increase - it's at equilibrium.

Re:Danger???

[cellocgw]

Most do, but not all. Hydrogen Peroxide is often used by itself as a monopropellant rocket fuel, for instance: just run it past a platinum screen and it reacts all on its own, no air required.

At the risk of achieving my first-ever negative mod, let me point out that "oxidizer" doesn't mean "air," and doesn't even mean oxygen. It just means something that will strip electrons from the fuel source (just like 2H +O2 --> 2H+ plus O2-- ; and sorry about no superscripts there).
BTW IIRC the platinum is just a catalyst in the quoted reaction.

Re:Danger???

[Scrameustache]

Early astronauts used 100% oxygen atmospheres at a low pressure without any problems.

Except being torched.
I know you meant toxicity-wise, but jeez, that was a dumb accident.

Re:Danger???

[RatBastard]

Almost any chemeical rocket fuel will explode in a catastrophic failure. That's an unavoidable fact of chemeical rocketry. There is no "safe" rocket fuel, not even hydrogen peroxide, which is often used without an oxidizer. Even a steam powered rocket is deadly when scaled up large enough to be practical.

The only way to mitigate the danger is to design the system to be as foolproof as possible.

Re:Danger???

[addaon]

Right, but that's in a combustion-based engine. Mono-propellent peroxide engines use decomposition, not combustion.

Re:Danger???

[Anonymous Coward]

That doesn't mean that there are no oxidizers involved. A reaction can be redox without being combustion. Conversely, there are many non-combustion reactions that are redox.

Re:Danger???

[$hecky]

It's going into space. The plan is that you don't have leaks.

The backup plan is that you die.

This is why shuttles don't have eject seats. The conditions under which they operate make error fatal. The only safety you consider in the event of a leak is for people on the ground.

Re:Danger???

[jandrese]

Refueling fires are in the category of freak accidents these days and almost everybody uses self serve (except in those states were it's illegal for some reason). Cars dissipate static electiricty fairly quickly, and the no-smoking rule is a no brainer.

In other words, don't be stupid when refueling, but you don't have to be totally paranoid either. A touch of commmon sense reduces the chance of an accident to "act of god" probabilites.

Re:Danger???

[Efreet]

In that incident the astonaughts were in one full ATM of oxygen. When in space the astronaughts would fly at the standard partial pressure of oxygen (about .1 atm or so, I forget). In zero-G at least, adding .9 atm nitorgen to the .1 atm oxygen won't make the slightest diffenrece to how things burn. Its only when you increaste the partial pressure of oxygen that things get...interesting.

Re:Danger???

[stratjakt]

It's illegal in some states because of the danger. Self serve gas stations are a huge cash saver for the big oil companies, not just because they save the minimum wages for the attendent, but because they transfer liability to the consumers.

Saying "dont be stupid when refueling" is useless, because people are stupid and cavalier about it.

When I had a boat and would pull up to a marina, they wouldnt start fueling until everyone was out of the craft, and had some sensible but rigorously enforced safety rules. If you take your BBQ propane tank to get refilled, there will be procedures and protocols to follow. But at the local mobil, there's no more than a no-smoking sign.

Some people are simply oblivious to the fact that gasoline is extremely flammable. It sounds stupid, but its true.

Re:Danger???

[Anonymous Coward]

Incorrect... XCOR has never made plans for a peroxide-fuelled rocket. Their previous rockets were fuelled by alcohol!

Re:Danger???

[WolfWithoutAClause]

Incidentally, every rocket fuel of one kind or another has to have some oxidizer, or it won't work in space(think that one through.)

Not quite. Recall that rockets work by throwing fluid away. There is a class of rockets, such as solar or nuclear heated propellent or ion or plasma drives, that don't require oxidisers.

Re:Danger???

[rossifer]

Actually, if you were a scuba diver and used oxygen enriched breathing mixes (aka Nitrox), you'd know that the risk of a CNS OxTox hit (a central nervous system seizure due to oxygen toxicity) significantly separates from zero at a ppO2 between 1.6ata and 2.0ata... pretty far from 10.0ata.

Much of my scuba diving is limited by this number. I usually dive EAN32 (32%O2 68%N2) for my recreational diving, and at 128fsw (the local pressure equivalent to a column of salt water 128 feet tall with 1ata on the top), the ppO2 is 1.6ata. That's the MOD (Maximum Operating Depth). Don't go deeper than that. Even accidentally. So I limit my dives on EAN32 to 110feet to stay away from that invisible boundary where risk starts to accumulate.

You're right that whether you get hit is variable on pressure and time, it also depends on the individual's body, how fit they are, how rested they are, if they've done recent exertion and lots of other variables we don't understand. You can be tested (in a hyperbaric chamber) and make it to 4.0ata for an hour on one run and then a month later get a CNS hit on the way past 2.0 at the start of the run.

Also, a CNS hit isn't really harmful itself. When you're lying down in a hyperbaric chamber and you get hit, you go into a mild convulsion, lose conciousness, they drop the pressure, you wake up none the worse for wear. What hurts is when you need to be concious to keep doing something important (like keep the breathing regulator in your mouth on a scuba dive, or like continue to pilot the vehicle).

Finally, there is another kind of injury from elevated oxygen levels, where your lungs get burned from long exposures (long is hours and days, depending on how elevated the pressure is). This is why when you're in the hospital and need extra O2, they don't put you in an pure O2 environment and leave you there. The tissue in your lungs degrades and that injury can eventually be more serious than whatever you were on the supplemental O2 for. This is sometimes called Systemic OxTox, though it has a few names.

In either case, as others have mentioned, you're more likely to be burned by the LOX freezing your skin or the shrapnel from the bursting container than by breathing the extra O2. It also may not help the situation that the suddenly reduced temps in the cockpit cause all of the windows to frost up just as you're losing engine power...

Regards,
Ross

Re:Danger???

[weglian]

LOX isn't compressed oxygen, it's liquid. It's also VERY cold. Almost -300 degrees F. If the tank ruptures in the cockpit, the pilot may have to worry about being frozen (a' la Terminator 2) as well as any fire hazard or shrapnel.

Hydrogen Peroxide or any other monopropellant decomposes (energetically) as opposed to "burning".

A propellant leak can be VERY dangerous, or it can be benign, depending on the location and severity of the leak. If a valve has a slight leak, it may not be much of a problem. If you have a ruptured propellant tank... well, you are having a very bad day.

Re:Danger???

[Tailhook]

and this will dramatically increase the speed that a shuttle will be incinerated during a disaster ...?

So it's better that a shuttle incinerates slowly...

Re:Vacation Time

[larry bagina]

One step closer to having honey moons in space? Wooo

This is slashdot. Maybe a PERL conference in space, but not a honeymoon.

Educational uses

[arvindn]

We are very excited about the new engine since it moves us closer to our goal of a reliable and economical vehicle for space tourism as well as educational and commercial uses.

I'm particularly fascinated by the educational uses. How long until high school teachers fire real rockets to demonstrate Newton's third law? That'd be the day! No more boredom in school :)

Re:Educational uses

[JUSTONEMORELATTE]

How long until high school teachers fire real rockets to demonstrate Newton's third law?

Dang, and I thought it was bad when my teacher hucked an eraser at me. DOOM has changed everything.
--

Re:Educational uses

[PhantomHarlock]

We actually have proposed educational uses just like that for our 15-lb thrust N2O-Ethane engine. Sort of a kit that can be assembled and tested by teacher and students. Such a project requires funding, however, and we have not gotten the requisite interest yet.

--Mike
XCOR Aerospace

Re:Educational uses

[worst_name_ever]

Dang, and I thought it was bad when my teacher hucked an eraser at me.

When I was in school, I actually had a physics professor who brought in a .22-caliber rifle and fired it at a swinging metal pendulum, in order to demonstrate transfer of momentum. None of us in the class were prepared for this, and were somewhat alarmed when this batty old guy pulled the rifle out from behind his desk and started shooting. I think he retired after that semester.

Re:Educational uses

[WolfWithoutAClause]

XCOR have a 'tea cart' engine that they ran indoors at the conference center of Space Access a couple of years ago; with full permission from the fire martials. There was talk of demoing it at schools, but I don't know what happened about that.

Re:Educational uses

[nutshell42]

How long until North Korea officially stops selling missiles and becomes the world's biggest supplier of educational materials? =

Re:Educational uses

[John Harrison]

We did the same thing with a wheeled chair and a fire extinguisher. They even had races across the gym. Didn't require much in the way of funding, demonstrated the 3rd law nicely.

Re:Vacation Time

[Anonvmous Coward]

"One step closer to having honey moons in space? Wooo"

You have greater challenges towards having a honey moon than getting into space.

Re:Jew Effective?

[Anonvmous Coward]

" Your reputation is hurting due to all these bad jokes and gay retorts. Instead of pooping out five bad jokes, spend that same amount of money and buy one good joke."

What? Heh. Why do you care about my quips?

Re:Jew Effective?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm -- obviously a Lance Bass fan. Guess the OP touched a nerve...

how's it work?

[SuperBanana]

their new liquid oxygen/ kerosene rocket engine.

When it runs low on pressure, do you have to pump the little plunger a zillion times until you're back to full-blast?

(if you haven't been camping and used a coleman lantern, you won't get this.)

Re:how's it work?

[sconeu]

Dude! I remember pumping the lantern! The other question is... what do the astronauts do when the mantle breaks?

Re:how's it work?

[ncc74656]

their new liquid oxygen/ kerosene rocket engine.

When it runs low on pressure, do you have to pump the little plunger a zillion times until you're back to full-blast?

Coleman fuel is more like gasoline than kerosene...note that some of the newer stoves and lanterns can run on unleaded. You could run the older ones on unleaded as well, as long as you didn't mind that the generator wouldn't last as long.

One time while cutting the grass, the mower ran out of gas. Rather than lug a jerry-can to a gas station, I put some Coleman fuel in the mower's tank. It seemed to run OK on it, though I thought at the time that the engine might've been running a bit hotter than usual.

I reckon..

[Soko]

...that you're trying to turn an urban legend into a real Darwin Award.

Soko

Re:I reckon..

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it really happened, just not the way the story is told. The guy wasnt killed. A JATO isn't that powerful, he just went real fast (like 150-180) for a bit.

They did it on that Discovery channel show (Mythbusters or something?) where the two sfx guys try to recreate urban legends like this. They stuck a couple of hobby rockets onto an old car (they couldnt get a JATO, but these actually provided more thrust) and fired it up. It wasn't all that spectacular to watch.

But they investigated the whole story, and while the core of it was true (a guy mounting a JATO on a car), the details (car going airborne and smashing into the side of a mountain at a zillion MPG) are bullshit.

Re:I reckon..

[EastCoastSurfer]

There was a Disc/TLC show not long ago disproving that urban legend. The cool thing was that they found same make/model of the car, strapped some JATOs(or something similar...think the military was giving them a hard time about aquiring them) to it and gave it a whirl. Since it would be too dangerous for a driver to be in the car they made the whole thing remote controlled and the "driver" flew in a helicopter behind the car. Once they fired the rockets the car easily left behind the helicopter and once the rockets burned out they drove the car back to the staging area.

Re:I reckon..

[aardvarkjoe]

Whenever referring to this particular legend, this is the link to reference...

Name...

[plexxer]

I hope he names the final design the BFR-3000.

Re:Name...

[Cruciform]

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to be a game designer, but it helps :)

second test

[Joe the Lesser]

First tests are easy, now ye must answer me these questions three!

What is your name?
What is your quest?
What is the power of lobbyists for the current technology?

Check out the ignitor shown on that page!

[Anonymous Coward]

Go to that page and check out the new, improved ignitor that is shown. Looks a lot like an off the shelf spark plug inserted into a gas discharge nozzle.

Not sure if this proves that they are amateur hacks without a prayer, or budget-minded folk trying to build a low cost replacement for big-bucks aerospace hardware.

My bet is that these guys will go boom an awful lot!

Re:Check out the ignitor shown on that page!

[Once&FutureRocketman]

I suppose you would be more impressed if they had spent hundreds of hours building a custom spark maker to perform the same function?

Maybe you should go work for NASA.

Re:Check out the ignitor shown on that page!

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I Do! (as a civilian contractor at an aerospace company)

Re:Check out the ignitor shown on that page!

[gantzm]

I would think the trick in an ignitor isn't the actual ignition, but the proper mixing of the fuel and oxidizer. Incorrect mixture and it either doesn't ignite or it goes boom!

Re:Check out the ignitor shown on that page!

[RocketPlumber]

We're budget minded folk. We've *never* had an engine go boom, thanks to a healthy portion of caution and ignition interlocks which don't allow the main valves to open until we have good igniter operation.

Last month, we did over 300 tests of that igniter in one afternoon just to verify the statistical reliability- and it passed with flying colors.

We've tried expensive aircraft style flush-face spark plugs, and they don't work as well as the cheapo units. Sometimes the inexpensive solution is also the best.

Doug

Stay Away from me

[FortKnox]

I have no problems with people shootin rockets this way and that, as long as its no where near me.
Amateur rocketry usually leads to one thing (think "smoking empty boots sitting at the bottom of a large crater"), and I don't want to get hit with the shrapnel.

Re:Stay Away from me

[foolish]

I know you were just making a joke, but actually IIRC amateur rocketry is sfaer statistically than most other hobbies. Less hobby-related deaths/injuries than golf, for instance. Go figure.

Propelants / Re:Danger???

[WegianWarrior]

Challenger... I rest my case.

LOX (Liquid OXygen) is used because it is both cheap, freely avilable and less dangerous than most other oxidisers. For more info on propelants in general, see here. For LOX + kerosene in particular, the link is here. Off course, if you want to get away from the nasty cryogenic oxidicers, you could always go for hydrogenperoxside and kerosene (se data here). Off course, H2O2 is more expencive and way more poisonous than LOX, but it's give and take... In large quantities, 95 per cent hydrogen peroxide then cost approximately $1.00 per kg - LOX on the other hand cost about 0.08$ per kg. Or you could get exotic and use Liquid Fluorine and Kerosene wich gives a Isp: 322.00 sl. compared to a Isp: 300.00 sl. for LOX/Kerosene (se data here) - but then LF was kosting 6.00$ in 1959, and I don't think the price has dropped.

So in short, LOX has a few drawbacks, but the benefits of using it outweights them. Oh, and Encyclopedia Astronautica is a good place to find this sort of info.

Re:Propelants / Re:Danger???

[srn_test]

And you certainly don't want to be around a liquid fluorine leak. LOX is as safe as water by comparison.

This is High Technology.

[4ginandtonics]

Oh my this is impressive.

Close study of the Igniter shows that a key component is a Champion Y-8 Spark Plug?

This is Rocket Science, man!

Re:This is High Technology.

[micromoog]

They should just drop in a SplitFire and get an instant 50% performance boost!

Re:This is High Technology.

[PhantomHarlock]

We tried many so-called "high performance" igniters and that was the one that worked the best. The 400 lb-thrust LOX-Alcohol engines on our EZ-Rocket use a spark plug from a go-ped. We only need a very small spark plug. The plug ignites an igniter engine, which is basically a miniature rocket engine inside the big rocket engine. After the igniter is lit, main propellants are allowed in to the chamber for main ignition. One of the key advantages to our engines is a safety interlock system to prevent main propellants from pooling in the main chamber before ignition, which is a primary cause of explosions, or "hard starts" as they are referred to in the industry. We have had thousands of runs without any hard starts.

--Mike

Re:This is High Technology.

[Anonymous Coward]

So, on a cold day, do you have to spray ether into the igniter?

Why don't y'all get some TEB?

Re:This is High Technology.

[Kallahar]

Actually one of the basic design approaches these x-price contenders are doing is using off-the-shelf components. The automotive industry has been exploding vapors for decades, so it's logical that a spark plug would be well engineered.

Armadillo also uses this approach, they're using standard NOS injectors to feed the peroxide into the engine.

NASA stuff is so expensive because they develop everything in-house. That's good when you need absolute quality control, but it skyrockets the price.

Travis

Re:This is High Technology.

[JaredOfEuropa]

Heh why not? NASA is going the same way in some area's; they built a VTOL prototype aircraft using mostly off-the-shelf RC airplane components. In fact there were hardly any special components in the prototype; they even published the drawings in an RC magazine so the readers could build the aircraft themselves!

Bush on board!

[mnemotronic]

We could give a new meaning to "launching a presidential campaign".

But seriously folks, 1800 lbs of thrust just does not seem very manly when compared to the Saturn V F1's 1.5 million lbs of studly thrustosterone. Ugh - more power!

Radio Stations

[phaetonic]

This will boost the demand for XM Satellite radio, since it will be the only radio frequency to reach the moon

Re:Vacation Time

[bheerssen]

Sure, why not? And we could have a mustard moon to go with the one made of cheese. And some lettuce moons. It'll be a great big moon salad.

important correction

[PhantomHarlock]

We are not currently an X-Prize contender. If the X-Prize is still available when our Suborbital vehicle is complete, it is conceivable that it could be modified to meet the requirements of the X-Prize. XCOR is more focused on the immediate possibility of revenue generating service from the Xerus spaceplane.

For more information about our Suborbital program, visit our suborbital page at:
http://www.xcor.com/suborbital.html :)
--Mike Massee
XCOR Aerospace

Carmack

[javilon]

"partly funded by John Carmack of Id and Armadillo Aerospace (Carmack's in-his-free-time X-prize contender)."

Cool, but where is Doom III?

Wow

[autopr0n]

Lox with kerosene. Sounds incredibly powerful, and cheap and easy to get as well. I doubt carmack will be able to beat them with his' team's Hydrogen Peroxide engines.

Any stats on the energy/gram of that stuff?

LOX and kerosene but there is one more cost

[zymano]

one more cost effective way to build and power a rocket engine.

I have heard of a company that was trying to use solid/liquid rocket technology that used regular rubber as the fuel source and liquid oxygen as the oxidizer. The pictures of it were like the space shuttle solid rocket booster .

What happened to that company ? anyone know ?

Re:LOX and kerosene but there is one more cost

[Efreet]

I heard that if you take the appropriate ammounts of oxygen and gasoline, mix in some epoxy, put it into a cylinder a high pressure and spin it until it sets you can get performance per pound approaching the solid rockets on the space shuttle.

Re:LOX and kerosene but there is one more cost

[minard]

uh... but what would be the impulse (thrust x time) per unit mass? Might be cheap, but if you need to lift the fuel in addition to the payload, it probably doesn't help overall.

From what I've read, the people at xcor are more than capable of doing the math.

Re:LOX and kerosene but there is one more cost

[zymano]

http://www.islandone.org/LEOBiblio/SPBI101.HTM

But do they run LINUX?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think he meant the moon where the honies come from!

Sometimes the simplest approach

[Andy Dodd]

Is the best approach.

Spark plugs are a proven, reliable, and mature technology.

Beam me...

[wa2flq]

Beam me up Scotty.... nope, technically impossible

Blow me up Scotty.... nope, not desireable

Blast me up Scotty.... Sigh, not the same ring to it

Lift me up Scotty.... Too perverse...

Fly me up Scotty.... Even worse

Oh heck, back to engineering.....

Re:Beam me...

[Jawnst]

What the FUCK are you talking about! I am not amused by your nerd humor may you be undesirably sent straight to heck, golly gee willikers!

Timetable?

[lhouk281]

I checked out the XCOR website, but didn't see a timetable for when the Xerus might actually fly for the first time. Mike (or anyone else in the know), care to give us a guesstimate for when we can expect the test flights?

Re:Timetable?

[PhantomHarlock]

We're making good progress right now on a lot of the underlying technology and subsystems. We won't be able to set a schedule for the full vehicle until we get some more investment money in the bank. Should take about 18 months from funding to first flight, and another 18 months after that to complete the flight test program. We don't need too much -- million dollar class investors are what we're looking for.

Re:Hi, I'm John Carmack

[reelbk]

This is probably the funniest thing I've ever read on /.

Re:Vacation Time

[JudgeDredd]

One step closer to having honey moons in space? Wooo

What's wrong with the current cheese moon?

Liquid oxygen

[autopr0n]

The EZ-Rocket carries the O2 tank in place of the passenger seat, primarily because it won't kill the pilot if it vents.

Well, what if they frezee to death?

Re:Liquid oxygen

[PhantomHarlock]

> Well, what if they frezee to death?

In the incredibly unlikely event that LOX vents into the cockpit, Just crack open the canopy for a bit. The EZ-Rocket is a subsonic vehicle limited by the do-not-exceed speed of the airframe (about 195 knots) so you're not going all that fast, especially when gliding.

Also, there is a large manual lever the pilot can pull to dump the LOX out the back. We've actually done this on a safe abort flight, to lighten the airplane for an early landing. (go here for details about that flight.)

(For casual readers, note that we are talking about the currently flying test-bed, the EZ-Rocket, and not the Xerus supersonic, suborbital space vehicle)

ummm guess what

[Anonymous Coward]

hydrogen peroxide is an oxidizer.

want prof add conc H2O2 to methanol, it spontaneously combusts.

2 H2O2 -> 2 H2O + O2

CH3OH + 2 O2 -> CO2 + 2 H2O

CH3OH + 4 H2O2 -> CO2 + 4 H2O

That's old hat. My Highschool Geometry Lessons

[cookie_cutter]

How long until high school teachers fire real rockets to demonstrate Newton's third law?

We did this in my highschool geometry class using model rockets. We had several observers at known distances from the launch site who measured the angle of the rocket when it reached it's highest point. We then used the data to calculate the altitude of the rocket.

Model rockets are very widely available toys, and a lot of fun for junior and senior geeks alike. Me and my brothers built and played with them all the time.

Probably Re:What do you reckon..

[WolfWithoutAClause]

What do you reckon the chances are of me being able to get hold of one of these babies for my car?

I suspect they might consider it for the right price, if you could sort out the legalities so they don't get sued; rocketry is relatively expensive.

"Electrical igniter design" Via NAPA

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone else notice the picture next to the quote at this link: http://www.xcor.com/XR4K5-firstfire.html
"The XR-4K5 also uses our most recent electrical igniter design that is smaller and lighter than previous generations."
Is an NGK spark plug bolted into the housing?

rubber+LOX

[rcw-home]

I have heard of a company that was trying to use solid/liquid rocket technology that used regular rubber as the fuel source and liquid oxygen as the oxidizer.

I can't see how that could possibly burn cleanly.

Re:FUCK FRANCE

[Anonymous Coward]

hmmm... masturbation or sex with a smelly french whore....

I guess i would rather fuck myself!

Saturn V

[pclminion]

But seriously folks, 1800 lbs of thrust just does not seem very manly when compared to the Saturn V F1's 1.5 million lbs of studly thrustosterone. Ugh - more power!

Well, consider that the Saturn V weighed about 6.7 million pounds, and the rocket used five F1 engines providing a total of 7.5 million pounds of thrust, then the net upward force is actually only 800,000 pounds, or 160,000 pounds per F1 engine. So about 9/10ths of the thrust is used just to counteract the weight of the rocket itself (at least on liftoff).

Re:FUCK FRANCE

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=22375

competition for the space shuttle?

[thomasiomichelangelo]

I realize that this project isn't intended for launching sattelites/large payloads into orbit, but would a scaled up version be capable or are the weight/thrust ratios too low for large payloads?

FREE TRIAL OFFER! LOOK INSIDE! GREAT OFFER!

[C21]

Now YOU too can ride on a rocket and have your penis extended while taking herbal medication to supply you with energy for days on end!!!

Re:Educational uses -- FOR Mike@xcor

[Knobby]

Mike -- If your company is really interested in developing an educational project and are simply lacking the funding to begin the project, drop me a note (taylorja at clarkson dot edu). I'm a faculty member in the Mechanical and Aeronautical Engineering department and would be willing to try to help out.

The "real" Rocket Car

[some guy I know]

Actually, it really happened ...

... if you can believe this story.