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Paris, The City Of Wi-Fi?
TheMatt writes "An article at the IHT describes an effort to make Paris one big Wi-Fi hotspot. The project, with partners like RATP and Cisco, if approved, will place two or three antennae outside each of the 372 Metro stations in Paris and link them through an existing fiber network that runs through the subway tunnels.
The current pilot project is centered along the route of Bus No. 38. You can sign up for access to the pilot which is free until June 30."
I thought there was some legal issue w.r.t. WiFi in France -- that the 2.4ghz spectrum area was reserved by the French military?
I'd like to see them attempt to cover Paris with WiFi alone. That would be a feat! No fiber backbones, just wireless nodes.
You think that I'm crazy, you should see this guy!
except, of course, on the days when the network goes on strike. (Just like the RATP.)
sulli
RTFJ.
One plus... they already have a great tower to cover all of Paris.
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I just signed up using my location as Detroit...
*That* should give the Cisco engineers something to work for...
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
I don't know how succesfull this can be... There are 2 potential markets (leaving kids with portables as a marginal marketshare)
- people of paris : why would they subsribe to such service ? They likely have a home in paris, with internet access a lot cheaper, more reliable and more secure.
- visiting bussinessmen : why would they subsrcibe either ? Most hotels have access for a reasonable fee, and are not subscription based.
Additionally, I seriously wouldn't want to sit with my portable open on a bench near a subway entrance in autumn/winter when it gets dark after 19:00. Subway stations are not exactly known for their safety, and walking around with a 2000Euro piece of electronics is asking for trouble.
Additionally, i consider it silly to first sit in the subway for 15 minutes wit haportable and no connection, and then finally getting out in the open where you have to sit again to connect. Wouldn't it be much better to put the base stations INSIDE the trains ?
Call me stupid, but my guess is that they'd better focus on appartment buildings : place a wifi hotspot on top of it, and you've got you whole building connected for low fee and without having to rewire the damd thing.
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-A.M.
Pimpin' all the Karma Hoes!
Does 802.11(b or g) enough bandwidth to handle that many people? Not that everyone has a WiFi connection, but when you provide ubiquitious access, the applications will be created that utilize it.
I don't think that 802.11 can handle more than a handful of users before it is swamped. I imagine that the city will be subdivided somehow so that broadcast traffic from one machine isn't repeated to every node in the city.
can we call it Freedom Net? :)
Doesn't France have some really low limit on encryption? Like 48bit encryption?
Does that apply to wireless as well?
Anyone have more on this?
Isn't being connected to the Internet all the time sort of ... creepy?
I mean, don't even corporate execs need to get away from the World Wide Web a few minutes in the day, and just zone out while on the subway, or riding the bus?
Just because we can do it, doesn't mean it is a good idea. If Paris suffers a spike in crazy CEOs, then I say we call the trial a failure.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
that was a long time ago - see this press release for example talking about wifi activity.
http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/Feb2003/4849.htm
Why would there be a need to "sign up", if you want to roll out public wifi, put it up and let people know its it up. This may be just for the pilot. but there should be no need for sign ups or authentication systems when they do roll this out. Public wifi has many security risks, running ethereal on a public ap is very scary. Instead of trying to lock it up, just inform people what they need to do to keep their info safe.
Look at the RATP's metro map. Unless they're planning to include all of the RER stations in that, Paris will not be totally covered by Wi-Fi. Even given a 300-metre radius, which is probably being hopelessly optimistic, you won't have full coverage the way you do with GSM wireless coverage - the stations are usually more than 300m apart, not to mention the 'shadows' created by buildings, etc. in the path of the signal.
Now, if they mounted transmitters on each wireless tower or minitower or microtower, you'd have 100% coverage of the city.
Nevertheless, it is a good idea.
Zaphod B
When duplication is outlawed, only outlaws will have
I think I'll stay with my freedom wi-fi, thank you!
-- Repeat with me: "There is no right to profits".
Just thinking about my work I've done in Paris.. there are many times the stations are simply swamped with people. Laptop wifi is just out of the question. Far too many people and no real area to sit down. Besides, you only have minutes in a subway stop before your train comes. Even with Hibernate, my W2K box takes a while to be ready for use.
That really only leaves handheld devices, like a trusty ole iPaq. But.. with anyone with an iPaq (or laptop for that matter) probably also carries a mobile telephone - probably with bluetooth.
So in the 5 minutes you've got in the subway station, why not just go to street-level, turn on your PDA, and connect via GPRS. The iPaq with bluetooth is fantastic for downloading and running a quick scan on your email.
Plus if you really want to sit down and check your mail or surf, then zip off to a Brasserie for a coffee too.
Gare du nord now has WiFi.. I spend many hours sitting there waiting for my trains. Hey that's a great idea - wire up the trains themselves with WiFi. A Thalys or TGV with WiFi access would rock.
I can see it now: Pringles cans mounted all over the Eiffel Tower...
The hard part is finding enough French people to eat the chips.
Hey, that icon slashdot uses for WiFi stories certainly looks familiar...
Here in State College, PA I usually eat at a locally owned coffee and bagel shop called Irvings or a large regional grocery chain called Wegmans. Both places offer free wifi, the local Starbucks doesn't even offer wifi and if it did you would need to pay ~$6/hr.. If two places are of equal quality, but one offers free access, where would you go?
uhm, I've done this in Bryant Park, New York, and it was a great way to stay connected to people at home in Europe, without wires, without cost. I think that experiment is still running
http://www.nycwireless.net/
This is exactly what I was looking for as I'm going to Paris next week. There are lots of people wandering around the middle of town with laptops, sitting in the park with laptops. Of course you wouldn't be sitting outside with one in winter - however I don't really think that's the period they'd envisage most users. Using a laptop on the metro is not really a practical proposition.
Possible users?
Business travellers using one of the major stations with an hour to kill in the cafe.
Tourists emailing home.
Day trippers from somewhere else in Europe who want to email home/check the internet for something (Gare du Nord is a terminals for Eurostar).
All depends how much it costs of course. I'll definitely use it when it's free.
Is that like a TRAP but encoded in 64bit industrial-strength WEP ?
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2.4gHz?? Moi? Non, regardes CowboyNeal!Disclaimer - I have no idea what any of that means.
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THe local starbucks charges 30$ per month. HEllOOOOOO! I tend to study at starbucks, so i could easly rack up 3-6 hours a week, but im not willing to shell out 30 bucks for that, especially if im not there for a few weeks. THink aobut it, anyone who has a wireless laptop, probably already is paying for a connection at home. THis would dprobably almost double the cost of most peoples connections. I woul dlove to see figures of how the service is working, as far as subscribers.
MAybe if they went with 1$ a day, i would have used it. OR maybe a discount plan, for every 1$ of coffee you buy, you get a percentage off the 30$
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
re/read the article. There is no service on the metro. I know, i've read about this elsewhere, and that's definitely true on the test, and will probably be true for the final version due to problems with ground penetration (the wifi hotspots are above ground, stations are just a convenient location).
Faites l'amusement de nous si vous souhaitez. Mais au moins nous obtenons la connexion de WiFi pour hors des ordinateurs. Vous parole biseautZe qui au sujet de New York
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Where they really need Wi-Fi is inside the metro tunnels. Surely they could install some leaky coax or seomthing that will make it work for the people actually travelling in the Trains.
I live in Paris (I'm not french, my work sent me here), and I have to travel the full length of Line 1 each day. The trip from Chateau de Vincennes to La Defense each day is 45 minutes to an hour, and if I could make my laptop work for that time, that would cut my workday by nearly the same amount as my travel time. I've been waiting for them to do the same thing with the mobile phones. Right now, the phones work in some tunnels, and not in others.
It's true that all the cables and fiber run through the metro tunnels, that makes it easy to hook up any building with fiber, because nothing is very far from a a Metro station. Both Cable Internet and DSL here in Paris is available everywhere.
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In addition to the networks listed in other posts, this one has been running for about a year and a half now.
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From the bus38 link "Hello! Be the very welcome aboard Bus 38!"
Who did their translation, Babelfish?
Trolling is a art,
a good joke about wardriving and France's military surrender history, but nothing springs to mind.
/. geeks go wardriving and are asked about it, the French would surrender to them anyway ;)
I'm willing to bet if enough
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
I have been in contact with a friend in Tallinn, Estonia and he tells me that Tallin is full of publically accessible Wi-Fi hot spots. You can see more on this page, referenced at Wifi Free hot spots.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
You forgot to mention that they play the accordion. Or is that covered by 'terrorism'?
I for one welcome our new SCOviet Russian overlords to whom all our base are belong.
it would make much more sense for Cisco to back a city that makes it difficult to run services. One in particular that comes to mind is Venice, instead of fighting with the waterways why not just broadcast across the city so that everyone can easily tap into the wireless access. I realize from what I've seen/read that it is more of a old world city so maybe technology isn't a high priority there but just think of what it could do to help revitalize it.
Hey, I see nothing wrong with sipping cappuchinos at the café, ogling at well-endowed waitresses and reading the latest slashdot article on my tablet..AND gettting paid for doing remote desktop support :)
On Fridays substitute coffee with cheap red wine.
I might be able to use that. Hmmm. THanks.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
While much smaller in scope, Atlanta, GA is receiving something similar. The folks over at www.freebeeatlanta.com are setting up hotspots in a major area of Atlanta for free use. I am somewhat skeptical of their business model, though I have high hopes for it.
Their old site mentioned possibly rolling out in other cities, as well; unfortunately, the new site is less than informative.
Software I'm using? Let's see... Linux was born in Finland, KDE is mainly an European effort. Qt-toolkit is from Norway. I'm running Galeon right now. I would guess it has some american roots in it, but usually I use Konqueror, which has it's roots in Europe. I'm also currently running VNC (born in the UK). A while ago I also used IRC (invented in Finland).
It seems that overwhelming majority of my most-used software is from outside the USA.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
Freedom net, Liberty net? Nah, state run stuff that's free as in beer but censorded is not very free. They have different notions of freedom than we do. Come to think of it, these days we have different notions of freedom than we do. Happy Cinco de Mayo, when you can't celebrate liberty you can always drink a beer to someone else's defeat.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The naked ones are sane?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The WiFi pilot at the Gare du Nord uses prepaid cards. The cheapest card costs 5 euros and provides 20 minutes of access (about US$5.65).
The notion that criticizing the US has anything to do with showing disrespect for what US soldiers did in WWII is devious.
That was supposed to read:
Paris, The City of Why Fight
Just another day in Paradise
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Right about then.
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I'm guessing a lot of other people will pass, too. Starbucks needs to offer a one-day (or even hourly) rate before things will take off. They could use it for promotions... fill up your Starbucks card, get an hour online. That $30/mo is going to wave a lot of people off.
Mail? Put "slashdot" in the subject to pass the spam filters.
That's disgracing, but it doesn't invalidate my point (provided the "lack of respect" the OP mentioned referred to the French government's criticism of the war). The question is whether the French government shows a "lack of respect" for American soldiers in WWII by criticising US policy of 2003. Which I think it doesn't.
True enough--in fact, the French government's representatives disavowed the disgraceful action. But apparently, some feel opposed enough to U.S. policy to do something like that, and it's unfortunate that they were allowed to be born of those liberated by the U.K. and U.S.
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
It's a pretty tired joke. You're not even the first one on the thread to make it. Sorry, flamebait is an accurate judgement.
the best thing about computers? oh and the demos, ai, number crunching, the Internet, games, additional memory...and abstractions it puts on life aren't important somehow?
you are being unreasonable, sir...sure computers wouldn't be very geat if you have photographic memory, the ability to multiply 3000 digit numbers in base2-1024 in your head by command, and a video camera that just happens to be pointing at something interesting at all time, and the ability to be in 6 or 7 places in the world at one time so that you could get more done... sure if that describes you then mabye computers are worth getting away from. for the rest of us, there's masterca...i mean...computers.
i do think that this is likely going to be a waste of money, but this could easily be the future - you will know that you are in a human-inhabited regioin not by the smell of rotten urine and feces, [like the dark ages] but by the patterns of what would otherwise be passive electro-magnetic radiation being used and awaiting someone to conjour it up so that it could display
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I think everyone assumes they want to transmit wifi inside the subway. That is silly. :-)
They just plan to use the RATP's fiber network as a backbone for their wifis access points. Since the subway covers all the city, so does their fiber network, so does their wifi service.
This means you could get connected from any place in town, during lunch or shopping.
Paris is just a wondeful place. Now expect to see geeks playing UT2003 in the gourmet restaurants of Paris
Judging by the respect accorded to American war memorials in France, it seems that the French remember the cause of their sacrifice rather better than you do.
What should piss you off is that you've reached your age without realising the difference between freedom and slavery.
Mike.