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Gates on Digital Restrictions Technologies

doormat writes "According to this article, Gates says you can choose not to use the new secure PC technology that they're developing. Is that going to be a choice like being a vegetarian, or like choosing not to eat at all?" There's also a short piece about DRM and Linux, which is a follow-up to Linus on DRM.

99 of 460 comments (clear)

  1. If you opt out by Jimhotep · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If I opt out what will stop working?

    How will I know for sure I am out?

    1. Re:If you opt out by amembrane · · Score: 5, Funny

      You'll know you've opted out when your start button is greyed out, and the mouseover text reads "You have chosen not to use certain features that will greatly enhance your computing experience. This function will be unavailable until you opt to use our 'My File Tracking' feature."

      --
      They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    2. Re:If you opt out by crazyphilman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You'll NEVER know. Actually, since they're planning on implementing a software kernel (like a mini-OS) in a BIOS chip, you won't know what it's doing at all. That secure channel between the motherboard, the video, and the peripherals? It's still there even if you "turn off" DRM. So, how do you know it isn't snooping on you? Or deliberately slowing down your non-DRM processing? Or, even non-deliberately slowing it down -- do you think they're going to waste QA time on those of us who reject their pet project? It's just a big mess.

      I'll tell you this much: I don't trust Microsoft and Intel not to completely screw up the system in one way or another. They've both turned out some seriously buggy stuff over the years. Remember the floating point bug? Remember the latest Microsoft vulnerability? Remember the Intel chip-ID brouhaha? I don't trust either company. And, AMD is playing along too, so where are we going to turn?

      I'm telling you guys -- stock up on fast systems now, while you can. Get all your computer purchasing out of the way this year, and skip the whole DRM thing entirely. If you're *really* forced to, you can always buy a cheapo, 500.00 box/appliance down the road (just for DRM purposes) and code on your *good* pre-Palladium machines.

      --
      Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
    3. Re:If you opt out by flogger · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Opting out? How can I opt out? Will there be a big warnng box upon install that says, "Check this box if you wish to opt out of using secutiry features." Or will it be turned on by default and installed already when Joe User buys a new PC? Will it be easy to turn off?
      Heck. How many Joe Users know right now if their Unique Chip Identifier is turned on in bios? (ala Pentium III UID technology).
      I tend to not like this optional feature. It will take one hour for someone to release a worm that turns it on without knowledge, turns it off without knowledge, or reports all sort of fun info without Joe User's knowledge.

      --
      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
      "First things first -- but not necessarily in that order"
      -- The Doctor, "Doctor
    4. Re:If you opt out by cygnus · · Score: 2, Funny
      You'll NEVER know. Actually, since they're planning on implementing a software kernel (like a mini-OS) in a BIOS chip, you won't know what it's doing at all. That secure channel between the motherboard, the video, and the peripherals? It's still there even if you "turn off" DRM. So, how do you know it isn't snooping on you?
      one word: wiresnips. :)

      --
      Just raise the taxes on crack.
    5. Re:If you opt out by sandbagger · · Score: 2, Funny

      Only terrorists will want to opt out.

      --
      ---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
    6. Re:If you opt out by misterhaan · · Score: 2, Funny
      where are we going to turn?
      i don't know about the rest of you guys, but i never trusted any cpu that i didn't design myself using nothing but NAND-gates.
      --

      track7.org has all kinds of interesting stuff!

    7. Re:If you opt out by cygnus · · Score: 3, Funny
      I dunno, those are going to be awfully small wires, and motherboards have multiple layers... what's to stop them from putting the "secure" traces inside the board?
      well, i was joking in the above. ideally, people wouldn't buy stuff with this installed to begin with. but assuming i'm serious with my wiresnips comment, the only viable solution would be to remove the damn chip itself, and hope your machine still works.

      ideally, while performing this operation, you'd pretend you're Arnold in Total Recall pulling that tracing device out of his nose. :)

      --
      Just raise the taxes on crack.
    8. Re:If you opt out by Rinikusu · · Score: 3, Funny

      /* I'm telling you guys -- stock up on fast systems now, while you can. Get all your computer purchasing out of the way this year, and skip the whole DRM thing entirely. If you're *really* forced to, you can always buy a cheapo, 500.00 box/appliance down the road (just for DRM purposes) and code on your *good* pre-Palladium machines. */

      And thank you, Mr. Grove. Trying to get your volumes up this quarter? ;)

      --
      If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
    9. Re:If you opt out by gordyf · · Score: 2, Funny

      I figured you weren't serious, but it's still worrying that they could arrange everything so that even the traces handling the secure data are inaccessible. It'd be neat doing a man-in-the-middle attack on your own motherboard, though. :)

    10. Re:If you opt out by senahj · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Crazy phil man saith :
      > stock up on fast systems now, while you can.
      > Get all your computer purchasing out of the way this year,
      > and skip the whole DRM thing entirely.

      Here's where I think the dividing line is on Wintel.
      I'd be grateful for corrections.

      Disk drives - CPRM :
      - No CPRM-mandatory products in wide distribution.

      BIOS - TCPA :
      - no data. Anyone know which ones have TCPA support
      already built in?

      Processor - La Grande :
      - current P4 dice don't have La Grande, CPU IDs can be disabled.
      - Prescott-design processors due "in the third quarter
      of 2003" will have La Grande

      Chipset -
      The hot intel "Canterwood" chipset seems to work well
      with non-La Grande processors. Will its successor?

      OS - Palladium, EULAs, etc. :
      - Windows 9x is not an operating system.
      No actual security of any kind is really possible.
      - Windows 2000 is a real OS, albeit kinda klunky.
      but it doesn't have the hooks to make DRM mandatory.
      Up to SP2 the EULAs were acceptable - then the EULA for SP3
      had that scary clause about agreeing that MS could download and
      install updates without your knowledge or further consent,
      (now it looks like that was just CYA for the "auto update"
      feature, which can be turned off). But I think that you can
      run Windows 2000 at SP 2 or 3 and be in the clear, especially
      if you don't rush into any further service packs or updates
      without careful scrutiny. Withdrawn from market, but still
      available e.g. on ebay.
      - Windows XP is the same OS as Windows 2000, with a whole
      lot of minor annoyances fixed. Big improvement in backward
      compatibility with Windows 9x: it's a far better gaming platform.
      But it was designed to be the carrot that lured people onto
      Passport and MyWallet, and to support Windows Media DRM.
      May already be some Palladium or precursor under the hood.
      Currently being shipped on all new OEM boxen.
      - Longhorn, or whatever the next generation is codenamed:
      it will be possible for someone to configure it to make Palladium
      mandatory. Will the owner of the HW be allowed to configure it?
      - You don't own any data; you pay
      a monthly fee for access to certain data, some of which you
      may have created. If you quit paying, you lose acceess, and
      the data might go away.

      Windows Media Player
      Trojan Horse. Introduces DRM, and each update locks it down tighter,
      gives the user less control. EULAs and built-in DRM already
      onerous and unacceptable in 7.1. People who download and install
      the current WMP 9 are drinking the kool-aid.

      Real Player, Quicktime, etc.
      I have no knowledge. Anyone?

      So, I conclude that if I wish to continue with Wintel
      and still have control of my data, I *must* buy a new box
      with a fast P4 on a Canterwood chipset, and I must do
      it this summer while I still can.

      --
      Wait a minute. Didn't I say that on the other side of the record? I'd better check ...
    11. Re:If you opt out by Realistic_Dragon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Actually, since they're planning on implementing a software kernel (like a mini-OS) in a BIOS chip, you won't know what it's doing at all."

      Well, since 99% of Windows systems get fitted with a r00t kit at the first possible oportunity, Microsoft have decided to fit their own by default for your convenience :o)

      I'm betting on the fact that Sun, IBM or _someone_ (maybe the Chineese) will carry on making TCPA-free hardware for a while at least, which should give OSS types somewhere to go when all the rest have been influenced into not selling TCPA enabled systems.

      Of course I don't think that MS have realise to what extent the backlash will be when copyright is overenforced - all those people currently using their rights (and the many millions more exceeding them) may well vote for a repaling of copyright law altogether. We can but hope.

      --
      Beep beep.
    12. Re:If you opt out by the+idoru · · Score: 2, Interesting

      you'll know that you've opted out when a whole bunch of your digital media stops working.

      if things go as planned for MS, there will probably be a seamless transition from non-DRM to DRM media. i guess that this means the the old "preDRM" media that you have (and the media that is sold w/o DRM) will work seamlessly with the new DRM stuff. and since the media providers want you not to know when they are selling you crippled media (ala copyprotected CDs without labels denoting them as such) then without due research into what a user is buying they will likely be purchasing DRM content. if they suddenly become enlightened to their fair-use rights and want to opt-out, they will likely forfeit usage (might as well be forfeiting ownership) of the DRM stuff that they bought.

      so, if you buy lots of music, movies, etc and its DRM and you decide later to opt out, i'm sure you will know _very_ soon that you have indeed opted out when you cannot play all of that wonderful content you payed for.

      now, if you've opted out before purchasing and now want to play something that is only available as DRM, good luck. time to google for hacks that emulate DRM (which i hope can be coded).

    13. Re:If you opt out by jo_ham · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The best way to opt out is to go here to buy all your future hardware.

      No OS related restrictions, no serial numbers, no phoning up for activation, no being treated like a criminal.

      Ok, so you can run windows on it unless you install an emulator, but i think that's something of an advantage.

    14. Re:If you opt out by Realistic_Dragon · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's going to be crazy when in the 'Free World' (tm) the only way to get a computer system that doesn't spy on you or try and control your life is to purchase it from the Communists in China...

      --
      Beep beep.
    15. Re:If you opt out by pair-a-noyd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "I'm betting on the fact that Sun, IBM or _someone_ (maybe the Chineese) will carry on making TCPA-free hardware for a while at least, which should give OSS types somewhere to go when all the rest have been influenced into not selling TCPA enabled systems."

      Sure, that will work until they make it illegal to use non TCPA hardware. In the name of home land security you know. Remember, only terrorists use non-TCPA devices.

      Your unsecured PC is a threat to the infrastructure. You MUST comply. It's for the common good of the people, your needs are not an issue.
      It's for the common good of the people.
      It's for the common good of the people.
      It's for the common good of the people.

  2. Rephrased by swordboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is that going to be a choice like being a vegetarian, or like choosing not to eat at all?

    It is going to be a choice like eating cheese at midnight on Tuesday.

    --

    Life is the leading cause of death in America.
    1. Re:Rephrased by cryms0n · · Score: 2, Funny

      I like American (freedom) cheese!

      Whats wrong with American cheese?

      What cheese do YOU recommend?

  3. The technology by Bendebecker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The technology is going to be like cars. You don't need one but not having one is a restriction in itself.

    --
    There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
    most of us won't be able to afford it.
    -- Lemmy
    1. Re:The technology by dAzED1 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      My god, listen to you people...

      The technology is going to be like cars. You don't need one but not having one is a restriction in itself.

      Really? I mean, I personally think of automobiles as a huge technological breakthrough, the culmination of a lot of extremely signigicant technologies. It is one of the things that most impacted the 20th century. Do you REALLY think DRM is like that???

      Get a grip, people. If you wanna use windows, keep using windows2000 or xp, then you'll be safe in your drm-free world. And then when this MS bumble fails like so many other MS things have, everyone will see it for what it is. Is passport used the way MS said it would be? No. I could go on, but you're all too busy running for fear that the sky is falling.

      TIP: The world is revolving around the US less and less every day. There will be more than plenty of places you can get things from that do what you want to do, even if all of windows gets drm-locked-down. They're a whole world out there - check it out.

    2. Re:The technology by syzygy_001 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > The technology is going to be like cars. You
      > don't need one but not having one is a
      > restriction in itself.
      >

      Saying that is like saying your choice is to use a computer or not to use a computer. I think it would closer to say that it would be more like Gas to a car then having a car or not having a car.

      Keeping on the Car angle, You can own a car, you can tweek it out all nice and good, put on a "new this" and a "high performance that" but without the Gas your car isn't going to do that much.. and this is basically saying in a nutshell that if you do this and that to your car, and **WE** don't approve of those nifty new parts that you've put on when you go to put Gas in your car the pump will shut off and not let you fill up.

    3. Re:The technology by PhilHibbs · · Score: 2, Informative
      If you wanna use windows, keep using windows2000 or xp, then you'll be safe in your drm-free world.
      I want to buy a new laptop and put Windows on it. I currently have a laptop, and that came with Windows 98, but it's impossible to find a laptop that I can install that on, because it came as an image restoration CD. I have an original Windows 95 CD, but then I couldn't use the USB ports. So, my only option is to get a Windows XP laptop. In 5 years time, the story will be the same, but with different version codes. "Keep using Windows 2000 or XP" isn't an option, due to planned obsolescence.
    4. Re:The technology by JimDabell · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Really? I mean, I personally think of automobiles as a huge technological breakthrough, the culmination of a lot of extremely signigicant technologies. It is one of the things that most impacted the 20th century. Do you REALLY think DRM is like that???

      Way to miss the point. He didn't say he thought that any more than he said he thought that DRM had wheels on the bottom.

      Get a grip, people. If you wanna use windows, keep using windows2000 or xp, then you'll be safe in your drm-free world.

      You are also free to carry on using Windows 95 today... oh, but it's been EOLed, so no more security patches - hope you don't need to access an untrusted network, like, say, the Internet.

      TIP: The world is revolving around the US less and less every day. There will be more than plenty of places you can get things from that do what you want to do, even if all of windows gets drm-locked-down. They're a whole world out there - check it out.

      TIP: It's not just in the USA that Microsoft has a monopoly in computers.

    5. Re:The technology by tambo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      >And then when this MS bumble fails like so many
      >other MS things have, everyone will see it for
      >what it is. Is passport used the way MS said it
      >would be? No.

      That doesn't always happen. Microsoft is inserting more and more "creeping featuritis" into Windows. Do you really want to trust MS's assertions that they won't use it? Remember Amazon's privacy policy changes? (Today: Give us your personal information; we PROMISE not to sell it to spammers. Tomorrow: We changed our minds, and we're sure you'll love these eight trillion emails from bukkake.com.)

      Let's say we all roll over and accept DRM as a harmless, unusued feature. Who's to say that buried in some EULA for Windows 2006 XP won't be a clause that using Windows Update authorizes MS to turn on DRM? With the flip of a switch (well, the toggle of a BOOL), MS becomes Hollywood's bestest pal.

      I don't want to let MS embed a bomb in my system. Thanks, no.

      >TIP: The world is revolving around the US less
      >and less every day.

      TIP: Network effects are powerful forces. Sure, we can switch, if we don't ever want to access our old Word documents or run 90% of the software that's commercially available.

      David Stein, Esq.

      --
      Computer over. Virus = very yes.
    6. Re:The technology by sholden · · Score: 2, Funny

      When you get to second grade maybe your teacher will let you look at the dictionary and you'll learn that an analogy is a comparison based upon similarity in some areas between things which are not similar overall.

      Yes automobiles are dissimilar to DRM. That's why an analogy can be made between the parts that are in fact similar.

    7. Re:The technology by slaker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      XP DOES have some DRM features, built in to Media Player (e.g. you can rip a file from a CD, but only in dumbass WMA format, and only at a low bit-rate).

      2003 Server includes DirectX 6 but WMP9, BTW. This is hilarious, since sound and graphics acceleration are off by default, and if you *DO* play a media file or a CD with media player, all the visualizations are on and completely handled by your CPU.

      Anyway, through the linkages that have a tendency to happen with Microsoft programs, probably 20 minutes after MS developes pervasive software DRM, they'll make sure that their next required patches to some-important-Windows-technology (say, IE) include that patch... and the next so-bad-it-makes-the-evening-news security patch for Windows will require updated IE. Problem solved. Or started, if you're clueful and don't want DRM.

      --
      -- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
    8. Re:The technology by scot4875 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And then when this MS bumble fails like so many other MS things have, everyone will see it for what it is.

      I'd say the same thing, but for the adoption rate of the XBox. Microsoft is already a household consumer electronics name, and people trust names that they know. It may not reach 80-90% market penetration right out of the gate, but give it 5 years and a few billion in advertising and it might just get there.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    9. Re:The technology by KiahZero · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You bring a good point. In that case, you could argue (from an ethical point, rather than a legal one) that Windows 98 is abadonware, and thus there is nothing unethical in making a copy of it.

      --
      I'm a lawyer, but not yours. I wouldn't represent someone who thinks taking legal advice from Slashdot is a good idea.
  4. I'm sorry, I'm offtopic... by numbski · · Score: 5, Funny

    However I can't help but start reading DRM differently.

    Digital Rights Management
    Digital Restrictions Masochism

    Same diff really.

    Oh, and as an opinion, he expects us not to eat. ;)

    --

    Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

  5. Sure...we can use pencils by Sabalon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How long before MS decides that they will only provide windows for this thing and anything else doesn't offer the needed security? So, you can either use these or you can use something that doesn't run Windows.

    Fine for a lot of people here, but what will happen is businesses will still want windows and office, so they'll buy into this, and hardware makers will look at the other stuff as a non-profitable niche market.

    1. Re:Sure...we can use pencils by blahlemon · · Score: 4, Insightful
      You've got it exactly, Windows right now and probably the first couple of releases will run just fine on normal hardware but how long will it be before the hardware manufactures stop running two product lines, one secure and one open? And once that happens why would Microsoft continue to provide a version that runs on unsecure hardware?

      I think a big problem with this is the companies are trying to use hardware restrictions on a primarily social problem. It's not the big companies that are providing their movies and music on a digital format that is being distributed. It's regular people who are taking camcorders into theatres and recording the movie, then downloading it onto their computer and sharing it. How can a hardware restriction effect a user created file if the user doesn't apply rights to it? You would have to disable all file mobility.

      Trying to lock down the movie and sound formats won't work either because people will either (a) use older formats or (b) create their own players to be shared with the movies and music.

      --
      It take more faith to believe in evolution than it takes to believe in God
    2. Re:Sure...we can use pencils by Mr+Smidge · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Fine for a lot of people here, but what will happen is businesses will still want windows and office, so they'll buy into this

      Surely even the most PH of PHBs have realised by now that this isn't always (and hardly ever these days it seems) the best business solution?

      And from the article:

      Secure documents created in Microsoft Office, for instance, could be unusable on other operating systems or with other office productivity suites.

      How convenient. But yet, at the same time, how is this, say, any more secure than a PGP'ed open format document, for instance? Our 'secure' solutions are already here, and all we need is an initiatve to use them in a positive way, and not an anti-competitive manner, such as that M$ is employing.

    3. Re:Sure...we can use pencils by tuffy · · Score: 3, Interesting
      You've got it exactly, Windows right now and probably the first couple of releases will run just fine on normal hardware but how long will it be before the hardware manufactures stop running two product lines, one secure and one open? And once that happens why would Microsoft continue to provide a version that runs on unsecure hardware?

      I think the big question is why would consumers choose to buy DRM-crippled Windows versus non DRM-crippled Windows? Who, exactly, would want to buy hardware or an OS that gives them less control over their machine than they have now? And if people don't buy into Microsoft's scheme in sufficient numbers, the non-crippled version of Windows and hardware will quickly fade away - unless Microsoft wants to cut their own throats, which seems unlikely.

      --

      Ita erat quando hic adveni.

    4. Re:Sure...we can use pencils by anagama · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I recently opened my own business (IAAL). I use Linux on the Desktop. I figure that in MS-Office alone, I saved somewhere between $1200 and $1600 (4 copies). My business partner has been swapping documents with a different office - all in Word format. OOo is seamless in that respect. OOo speaks to MySQL nicely - select a form letter template, select records, hit print - it's a snap. There are some hard things - I'm frustrated with intermittent success getting a USB Clie to talk to Evolution - but the serial cable costs $20 so I've still saved a huge amount of money if I decide to give up on USB.

      Windows isn't great - it's just popular (think Brittany Spears). When you are that popular, you don't have to care. Listen to our friend Bill, after saying that some Office documents might not work with other programs: In the interview, Gates said it's up to other companies to ensure interoperability. So if enough people buy into this crap, and I have to share files with them, I'll have to cave in, buy into MS ... might as well get some Boyz to Men as well.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
  6. Classic multi-vendor finger pointing... by TopShelf · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Software vendors have pulled the "hey, it wasn't me," line since time immemorial. This does represent a mechanism by which content providers will simply only release new material that require DRT to access. I remember a similar incidence when a new version of Pocket PC came out with DRM that basically rendered my Jornada blind to the world of eBooks.

    Normally I'm not as hard on MS as most of the /. crowd, but gotta give a "boo... hiss..." on this one.

    --
    Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    1. Re:Classic multi-vendor finger pointing... by Reziac · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The really scary thing is, I think Gates honestly believes he's creating more "choice" instead of more potential for restrictions. Only problem is, it's going to come down to "you can either choose to be secure (and perforce go with an all-M$, completely DRM'd solution), or you can be out in the cold with only marginal, half-baked choices."

      Look at Windows in today's market. You can either use Windows and WinApps, or be a marginalized user, even in those areas where lockout isn't intentional. It just happens, due to market forces being prone to go with the mainstream because that's where the money is.

      And what happens when ISPs start requiring that you use a "secure" OS to access their servers??

      I generally prefer Windows as my OS, but all too often I'd like to drown M$ in some of their own ideas -- and this is one of 'em. Bah, humbug.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  7. Strong-arming by sssmashy · · Score: 5, Funny

    The technology has raised eyebrows not only for the absolute control it would grant such creators of digital content as music and movie companies but also because it is being driven by Microsoft, which has a reputation for strong-arming the computer industry.

    And the next nominee for "Understatement of the Year" is... Matthew Fordahl, of the Associated Press!

  8. Sounds like starving to me... by Bendy+Chief · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Verbatim from the article:

    "They just don't understand," Gates said. "That's like saying because we make a word processor, that reporters write what we want them to write or something. I can give you examples to prove that's not the case." (About antitrust fears with DRM)

    Wow. He sure allayed my fears. What he meant to say is, no, they don't have to write what he wants, but they do have to write in the FORMAT he wants, or get left behind. This whole DRM off-switch issue is the same quandary. Turn DRM off and watch your access to many online resources, that are becoming more and more integrated with daily life, vanish. Not to mention the suspicion that very well may come with shunning DRM. "What do you have to hide?", say Mr. Poindexter and Mr. Ashcroft.

    1. Re:Sounds like starving to me... by will_die · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You mean like the EULA from some microsoft products that read

      "You may not use the software in connection with any site that disparages Microsoft, MSN, MSNBC, Expedia, or their products or services, infringe any intellectual property or other rights of these parties, violate any state federal or international law, or promote racism, hatred, or pornography."
      ?
      For more info try this article

    2. Re:Sounds like starving to me... by mrpuffypants · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not a single online resource that I use is tied into Microsoft resources that use Windows technologies.

      Passport? Never signed up, almost every site that uses Passport also has another login method except Starbucks....so I'll buy from Peet's :)

      Windows Media? Realplayer, MPEG, Quicktime are some other options you may recall...

      On my Mac, with Safari I have no problem using the Internet or other "Web Features" like XML, RSS, or other technologies. On my WinXP PC I use Firebird and have zero problems as well.

  9. Terrorist tool? by gillbates · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Creators of top-secret government documents, financial records or other sensitive material could assign rights to sensitive files, allowing them to be viewed only on trusted computers running the system. Anyone else -- hackers and malicious programs included -- would be locked out.

    Maybe it's just me, but I would think that such a system would also enable terrorists to send "sensitive files" to each other, with the full confidence that law enforcement could not read them.

    Consider the above statement reworded a little:

    Creators of top-secret documents, terrorist plans or other sensitive material could assign rights to sensitive files, allowing them to be viewed only on trusted computers running the system. Anyone else -- FBI hackers, law enforcement and malicious programs included -- would be locked out.
    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
    1. Re:Terrorist tool? by spacefight · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Creators of top-secret documents, terrorist plans or other sensitive material could assign rights to sensitive files, allowing them to be viewed only on trusted computers running the system. Anyone else -- FBI hackers, law enforcement and malicious programs included -- would be locked out.

      FBI perhaps but Microsoft or the NSA is still locked in. I highly doubt that MS can design such a secure system without beeing forced to provide the master keys (eg like Crypto AG did years ago) to some evil agencies. Either they give or the drown. Same with XBox-Live where IMHO MS had to unscramble the VoIP stream (game data stream is still encrypted).
  10. You know... by dethl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Consumers shouldn't be worried that Microsoft Corp.'s new security technology will wrest control of their PCs and give it to media companies, Bill Gates said Tuesday.

    And we're supposed to believe someone who has a pretty good grip on the OS situation, and would do anything to keep that grip? Personally, I would rather have the chance of being hacked but also have the ability to do anything I want on my computer. I don't want a company telling me what I can and cannot do with my own computer. If we allow them to do this, who knows how much farther these guys will go?

    --
    "Some fight for law. Some fight for justice. What will you fight for? One day, you will see."
  11. is it just me ? by ramzak2k · · Score: 5, Insightful

    why has security been linked so much DRM these days ? Whenever i read an article on some kind of rights management initiative - there is almost talk about securing the PC. Security & DRM are two different things ! wih gates works on them individually.

    Its amazing how the quote from Benjamin dude works so well here.
    Those who are willing to trade freedom for security deserve neither freedom nor security

    Seems like there always was , will be people trying to take away freedom under the pretext of security - even in computing !

    --

    Siggy Say, Siggy Do
  12. Yeah yeah... by spacefight · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In the interview, Gates said it's up to other companies to ensure interoperability.

    Thank you Microsoft. No need for comments here.

  13. It's usage that matters by kahei · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The actual technology is more of a framework for building possible restrictions on than a set of restrictions in itself.

    What matters is whether it is used A) to protect specific things whose owners feel they need protecting or B) to just generally exclude software and data transfer that doesn't have corporate approval.

    I must say, it looks to me as if the influence of Microsoft may well be somewhat lower by the time this technology (or similar) is released than it is now. So it'll be no so much 'Microsoft technology' as 'global corporate culture' that determines the level of restriction we eventually experience.

    --
    Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
  14. You can choose ... by burgburgburg · · Score: 2, Funny
    You'll be limited to Freecell and Minesweeper, but that's your choice.

    Then you've got a really big ugly paperweight, but again, this is your choice.

    Choice is a good thing.

  15. what happened to 'end-to-end' ? by smd4985 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    the internet was built on the 'end-to-end' principle - let the applications dictate the ultimate use of the network. the same principle has allowed software to be highly innovative. while the current model can lead to insecurities, it also allows for innovation. for example, suppose i'm building software for a PDA - is it wrong to import address/contact info from outlook express? with palladium, i'm sure only 'trusted' applications will be allowed to do that (i.e. the company that paid MS for access). no doubt this will allow MS to control the pace of innovation and guide its development....

    --
    smd4985
  16. The Arrogance by SRCR · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If I understand everything correctly I'm no longer going to be the owner of my content but have to ask my Computer very nicly if i can have a look at it.. hmm.. And furthermore if i want to use an other program then the microsoft suite. I have to use a program that changes it's code to the specs of microsoft. In other words the tools I can use other the microsoft have to walk the microsoft walk.. I'm not pleases with this 'security' force upon me..

    --
  17. Thank you! by borgdows · · Score: 5, Funny

    >Gates says you can choose not to use the new secure PC technology

    Thank you Bill Gates my master borg!
    Can I choose not to use Windows(tm) too ?

    1. Re:Thank you! by dethl · · Score: 2, Funny

      Can I choose not to use Windows(tm) too ?

      Resistance is futile.

      --
      "Some fight for law. Some fight for justice. What will you fight for? One day, you will see."
  18. Bill will sway the public by Mr+Smidge · · Score: 5, Funny

    As the well-informed geeks that we are, we are quite aware of the fact that it's perfectly possible to run a secure operating system and maintain it in a good way without DRM in the manner advertised.

    However, I can predict that M$ will make a valiant effort to try to persuade the public into thinking that not being part of their Next Generation Secure Computing Base will put them at some kind of immediate risk. The only real risk I can think of here will be the credit given to you if you choose not to run a trusted operating system.

    "Hello, I'd like support for M$ Cock-In-Yo-Ass V6 please"
    "Are you using NGSCB?"
    "No"
    "We need you to be running a trusted operating system so that we can remotely assist you, sir."
    *Dial tone*

    This movement won't be a good thing.

  19. Opting out. by grub · · Score: 3, Funny


    With MS' monopoly on the world, opting out might very well turn one into a modern day TechnoAmish(tm).

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  20. Security! Security! Security! by mrpuffypants · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The people that microsoft constantly tout that the DRM features are designed to integrate security with the hardware and the software. How the hell can I trust a company that consistently falls down on security with their software products to "protect" my hardware?

    I don't have a big problem with Windows being insecure, because data can be backed up and restored painlessly, but if their brand of "security" extends to my hardware then I may have to be forced to constantly replace hard drives that spin at 40,000 RPM because of "security" flaws befor a patch can be released.

    The whole Palladium/DRM issue is about trust. They don't have it for me and I don't have it for them.

    1. Re:Security! Security! Security! by RatBastard · · Score: 2, Informative
      The whole Palladium/DRM issue is about trust.

      If that were only true. It's not about trust. It's about control. It's about Bill thinking he has the right to tell what you can and can not do with your computer.

      The important thing to remember about Bill Gates is that he is a comlete control freak. He feels compelled to control everything he can. He is acting out the nerd's revenge against the world that shunned him as a teen.

      --
      Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
  21. vegitarian? by x1l · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What if I am vegan? I never get any choices.

    Shouldn't it say, be a meat eater, or choose not to eat? I mean, a meat eater can eat everything a vegitarian can eat, but a vegitarian cannot eat everything a meat eater can eat.

    1. Re:vegitarian? by FroMan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      [offtopic]
      You get the choice to eat only non animal products. Quit bitching you don't have choices.

      I choose to live as a Christian. I don't whine when I tithe. I don't whine when I choose not to do something morally wrong. I don't whine when I go to church on Sunday.

      You see, I made a choice (theological arguements aside) to be a Christian, I accept the consequences and do not tell the world to change for me or give me more choices.
      [/offtopic]

      [ontopic]
      Now to return to on topic. I choose to only use win2000 as my last MS operating system. Everything in my home runs linux other than a couple gaming machines for my wife and I (which dual boot). By imposing the restriction of not using MS products I have limited my choices, but that does not take away my original choice.

      When my wife first used opera she could not use our bank's website. She understood the limitation she imposed on herself. I understand gnucash does not work with our bank, that is a choice I made not to use Quicken.
      [/ontopic]

      [offtopic]
      Point is, if you make a choice to limit your choices later on, take responsibility for it and stop crying. Maybe things will improve if you lobby for changes. Only support vegan restaurants, write to restaurants requesting more vegan meals options. If you choose not to be in the norm, your choice is made by yourself.
      [/offtopic]

      --
      Norris/Palin 2012
      Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
  22. Complete nonsense! by burgburgburg · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The secret Microsoft content monitors, along with checking all files created to ensure that they do not violate copyrights, infringe Microsoft Intellectual Property or plot activities contrary to Microsoft's continuing domination of the market, will also be make sure to "accidentally" leak any terrorist documents to government agencies through their "hacker operatives".

    Oh, wait, you didn't read any of this. It never happened. Go back to sleep.

  23. Shakes head in frustration by molarmass192 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So long as software is read and interpreted by some piece of hardware, there will ALWAYS exist the possibility of hacking that software. Yeah you can create monster keys from hell and lock them down in hardware but, as the XBox project has shown, all it takes is a bug in a signed piece of software and you can kiss your secured system bye bye. Also, there may be exploits available in the firmware itself and there's the popular brute force attack too. If you connect a box (Microsoft, Linux, Mac, etc) to any network, you implicitly accept a certain level of risk of being compromised. This effort will just lead to more complacency. The only truly 100% secured system system is one that's powered off.

    --

    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
    1. Re:Shakes head in frustration by mrpuffypants · · Score: 2, Funny

      Never! Wake On LAN h4ck3rz unite!

  24. Is DRM security? by mao+che+minh · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The more I hear about DRM, the more I realize that all we need is better security in coding and practice, not restrictive computing.

    It's funny how Microsoft is quick to claim that the ultimate burden of security does not lie with them, and accepts no responsibility for the flaws in their code. They then turn around and push DRM like there is no tommorow. It's obvious that this is a power grab.

  25. Pre-ban Computers by wren337 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There will come a day when you'll be doing all your hacking on a ten-year-old, "pre-ban" PC without DRM. Old hardware is going to be a valuable asset.

  26. learn to crawl before you walk by EvlOvrLrd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Microsoft should learn to produce secure products with its existing technology, before they assume the mantel of taking care of security for an entire consumer demographic.

    Haven't they learned that one size doesn't fit all, yet?

    --


    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright. Until you hear them speak.
  27. Be careful what you wish for by Timesprout · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While I dont agree with the levels of restrictions being imposed I think many people have reached the point where they will view computing with mistrust until security can pretty much be guaranteed and this has been a stumbing block for the industry.

    I think this mistrust has provided the platform for Micrsoft(et al) and Digital media producers to leap on common fears and drive for acceptance of this new and excessive paradigm. So instead of being able to use our computers in a secure environment the security environment will tell us what we can do with our computers.

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
    1. Re:Be careful what you wish for by clonebarkins · · Score: 5, Insightful
      ...I think many people have reached the point where they will view computing with mistrust until security can pretty much be guaranteed...

      There is no such thing as guaranteed security.

      --

      "The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it." -- Ayn Rand

  28. The end game... by SpaceTaxi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In essence, what we have here is a admission that we've reached the end of the line in closed source computer/software innovation (perhaps with the exception of Apple). The only way for MS and their cronies to hold on to the desktop computer market now is with a lock and key.

  29. Why is Gates the bad guy in all this? by Assmasher · · Score: 3, Funny

    He's just telling you that the people who own/create the media have the choice to protect it or not.

    --
    Loading...
    1. Re:Why is Gates the bad guy in all this? by imadork · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What he's really saying is that creators' control over their media is more important than my own control over my property -- like, my computer, or eventually, my ears. Maybe we should all get implants so that we don't accidentally hear songs that we're not licensed to listen to...

  30. Re:Is this the same Slashdot that loves Apple's DR by jeffhot · · Score: 2, Informative

    Apple's DRM applies only to music that you have purchased from them, and it's not too restrictive except for obvious things like giving it away for free. In this case you actually have a choice to not buy the music. Gates wants no one to have a choice. He wants to have limits already built in when you use anything: DVD, CD, Game, whatever. Can you see the difference? I suspect that the only compensation Apple has provided to /. "editors" is making available bad ass laptops with a sweet GUI and UNIX underneath.

  31. Your probably closer to the truth.... by FirstNoel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This would be the way they got the masses to follow. It's the whole pleasure/pain thing. They see the pain in the ass of not having these "special abilities", so they give up the pleasure of free will.

    Sean D.

    --
    "Hmm. I am to metaphor cheese as metaphor cheese is to transitive verb crackers!"
  32. Hardware by truthsearch · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Many of the functions that will be built into hardware were emulated by software because the chips are not yet built.

    Wasn't the main argument by Microsoft that security would have to be implemented at the hardware level to be truely secure? The only reason this is such a big deal is because his plan is to more tightly integrate his software with hardware for security purposes. If so much of this could be implemented as only software, doesn't that already prove the point that this isn't a necessary technology (at least not the way they are portraying it)? I personally don't believe this tight coupling of secure software with secure hardware will be the panacea Bill's talking about, but this demo helps prove this hardware push is more about integration and control than security.

  33. Oh the irony... by dnaboy · · Score: 2, Funny
    ...who happened to be played by a Microsoft worker dressed in a red T-shirt adorned with a skull...

    Hmmm...They finally have gotten uniforms in line with the corporate culture...

  34. Forgive my ignorance... by gratefully+dead · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But the story says that communications between programs "could not be intercepted." I am assuming this means that it is encrypted, and that in this system the hardware stores some kind of unique private key. If this is the case, there is nothing new here that open source software hasn't provided. We have GnuGP for trusted email, and OpenSSH for shells, file transfers, and there's even a plugin for Gaim!

    I don't understand why you would want some sort of hardware encryption. Because lets say AMD/Intel produce the keys. How hard would it be for them to keep a list of these keys and give copies to the FBI/CIA? Then, even when you *think* you are using a trusted platform you are being monitored. At least right now I know that I am not using secure communications.

  35. Thank God... by bdaehlie · · Score: 2, Funny

    Thank God Steve Jobs is a vegan...

  36. Pushing the right buttons by smartin · · Score: 4, Insightful
    M$ is going to be successful at this because they know what buttons to push:
    • You will be safe from viruses.
    • You will be able to avoid spam.
    • You can protect your content.
    • We will enable delivery of digital content.
    • Tigher system security.

    The people that respond to these buttons will be the government, content and software companies, corporations and joe dumb user. Most of these people either don't think about or care about the hidden agenda chained to M$'s master plan. This agenda includes:
    • Expansion of the the monopoly by locking out competators.
    • New monopoly in content encapsulation and delivery.
    • Absolute control of what will and will not run on a PC.
    • Loss of fair use.
    --
    The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
  37. Alternatives by matty · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, if Microsoft isn't serving your needs, perhaps you should look into one of the excellent alternatives out there? A Powerbook or Linux perhaps? Sure you don't want to pay for Windows pre-installed, then wipe it and pay for SuSE or whatever, but if that extra ~$70 actually gets you a computer YOU have control over instead of MS, maybe it's worth it?

  38. Another by truthsearch · · Score: 2, Funny

    Digitally Restrictive Monopoly

    He wants us to pick between Krusty's deadly Rib-wich made of animal-like products and starvation.

  39. Hmm by TitusC3v5 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I think I just decided to buy a Mac.

    --
    And the masses cried out, "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!"
  40. Let's not forget about the DMCA folks! by gosand · · Score: 4, Interesting
    OK, so Gates says that they won't force people to use it. Uh-huh. As with the EULA, he reserves the right to change his mind at a later date of his choosing.

    So in 5 years, all AMD and Intel chips will have DRM enabled, and Windows will have it on by default. There is absolutely nothing to prevent this from happening. Now in this scenario, if you find a way to disable the DRM, either in the chip or in the software, you can be prosecuted under the DMCA. Or maybe detained without a trial under the Patriot Act as a threat to national security. (if they succeed in getting it made permanent)

    Maybe I am creating a "worst case" scenario, but it is certainly plausible. Who would have thought 5 years ago that the US would be able to hold a few hundred people captive without a trial. Or that a college student would be sued for creating a search engine. Or a programmer would be arrested and held in jail for speaking at a security conference. Or a printer cartridge manufacturer would be sued because they are making generic cartridges. Or any of the other BS that has come out of the DMCA. Some people said "Oh, if the DMCA get abused, it will be repealed because the people won't stand for it." Here is a hint: it has been abused repeatedly, and it is nowhere near being repealed. Things are getting worse.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  41. Just a guess by DrMrLordX · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My guess is that 3rd party apps won't be affected. Just a guess, mind you. Other than that, you may have problems with any software purchased from Microsoft(Office, etc). Also, I'm guessing that later generations of "pay per song" services that sell music for pennies per song will want to sell you music files that will only work on one computer and that will not be useable without DRM active on your machine.

    The real question to ask is: "If I opt out, what software provided by my system's manufacturer(Gateway, Dell, etc) will cease to function?". That is, if you buy systems from companies like those. I'm not sure if anyone buying a system from an OEM will care about DRM, but oh well.

  42. Core Slashbot DRM Auto-Reply Logic by rwsorden · · Score: 2, Funny

    if ($article_text =~ /\b(drm)\b/i)
    {
    if ($article_text =~ /\b(microsoft|gates)\b/i)
    {
    $reply_text = random_reply({include_key_phrases => "die", "M$", "sucks", "end of the world"]});
    }
    elsif ($article_text =~ /\b(mac|jobs|os x)\b/i)
    {
    $reply_text = random_reply({ include_key_phrases => "expensive", "hip", "iTunes", "God"]});
    }
    elsif ($article_text =~ /\b(linu[xs])\b/i)
    {
    $reply_text = random_reply({include_key_phrases => ["choice", "freedom", "ReiserFS", "beer"]});
    }
    }

  43. One thing people arn't considering... by MrIcee · · Score: 3, Interesting
    ...is that this can ALSO be used to restrict software developers, especially us little guys. M$ has frequently done things (such as pricing development tools, etc..) so that it is becoming harder and harder to be a player in the software arena. By forcing DRM they may very well also force *certification*... that is, their hardware won't run *my* software unless I pony up to the M$ bar with lots of cash, hand over my source code to them, and in general pay to belong to their elite club.

    Would they do this? Sure, in a rats ass moment they would... first, it would bring them revenue from companies who want to get software published (CHARGE THE DEVELOPERS!!!)... second, they would have to certify it so they would require the source code... hmmmm... look at what they're doing in this chunk of code (SUE!!!!) or ... hmmm, look at what they're doing in this chunk of code (STEAL, PATENT AND SUE!!!!). And consider someone perhaps M$ doesn't like... guess what, it doesn't pass certification... period.

    As an independent game development company without the resources of the giants, this type of move scares me shitless.

    I'd say aloha in leaving, but I have no aloha for the likes of bill gates and his ilk.

  44. MS Rackettering similar to Auto Co. racketering by SailorBob · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Get a grip, people. If you wanna use windows, keep using windows2000 or xp

    I would love to sell computers with 2000 on them and not XP or whatever the next boatware is gonig to be - but I can't since M$ no longer sells licenses to old OS's. Sure, individuals can buy old licenses 2nd hand and install themselves, but that's an extremely small percentage of people. 95% of people buy their machine with a pre-installed OS, and that is going to be the latest M$ bloatware because you can't run a PC business scavanging old licenses here and there. You have to have a reliable supply of licenses.

    As a seller I'm forced to put whatever the latest Winbloze is on the machines I sell. Actually, forcing people to buy something they don't want or need is illegal. It's called racketeering and it's what the auto companies got smacked down on for in the 60's/70's. They were required to publish the specs for any car they no longer sell/service. M$ should be forced to publish the source for old OS's it no longer supports. M$ also shouldn't be allowed to prevent the use of such old OS's. To do so and force people to buy a newer version is racketeering.

    --

    Woopty Doo Basil, what does it all mean?!

  45. Oh, come on! by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That's what competition is for! That's why there are alternatives!

    Like... Mac OS X
    Like... Linux

    Yes, it sucks if the majority platform becomes stupid, but there are still workable alternatives.

    Of course, if Microsoft decides to drop Office support for Mac, then we've got another problem :)

    Or maybe Apple will see this as the opportunity to finally release OS X86... I'm joking!

    1. Re:Oh, come on! by MsGeek · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Yes, but you can "de-authorize" one machine and "re-authorize" another if you wish. And how many people (other than geeks like us) have more than 3 computers in the house?

      Again, let me repeat another solution to their very weak DRM:

      • Rip your AAC files to CD-DA.
      • Mix them up in your playlist.
      • Burn them to CD-R.
      • Re-rip them to whatever unencumbered format is your pleasure...MP3, Ogg, whatever. You can even rip 'em to WMA if you are a masochist.
      The CD-R you just burned is not a waste either...you can play that in almost any CD player you want. (except old cranky ones that can't play CD-Rs, won't play CD-Rs, ever.)

      I wouldn't say that's draconian DRM, by any means. It is mild DRM that will punish the big willful infringers but will not inconvenience the honest consumer who wants to play by the rules. It's a brilliant compromise.

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
    2. Re:Oh, come on! by Sabalon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Linux is an alternative to Windows - both running on x86. If x86 disappears and the replacement hardware can't run Linux (while technically possible, DMCA may prevent this from legally working), then you are left with MS and Apple.

      Perhaps this would cause the apple stuff to be less pricey for us people moving in droves to PPC Linux.

      Perhaps Apple would talk with Intel or AMD, who I'm guessing are not in MS's world domination plans, and like you said, migrate to X86, which would probably help keep the platform alive.

      The trick is then selling it - because you know MS will do everything they can to beat the price.

      And as much as people talk about consumers hating this and that - when it comes down to it, it's usually price point that makes them buy the worse product over the better.

  46. Re:Yeah yeah... OFF Topic Rant by mgpeter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In the interview, Gates said it's up to other companies to ensure interoperability.

    Thank you Microsoft. No need for comments here.


    This is exactly what the laywers should have went after on the Antitrust lawsuit - No matter how well you make your product, if it competes with Microsoft, They will FSCK up their system enough so your product will not work, but theirs will, then they will tell you that it is up to you to ensure interoperability.

    Examples - Try using Frontpage behind a Squid Proxy - won't work, but it works with their proxy server. It probably could be fixed on the squid side, but the problem is Frontpage doesn't use standard communication protocols.

    Or how about every time Windows gets updated, Samba somehow mysteriously has errors that need to be worked out. If Microsoft was NOT a monopoly, they sure as hell would make sure that Windows worked with other servers - just look at how Windows 95 worked reasonably well with Netware Servers.

    Or how about they add something to Windows, like Movie Maker, but they want to extend their Monopoly, so they make it so it will only save in their new WMV format and nothing else.

    Sorry for the rant, but this is exactly the mentality that Microsoft has. The Department of Justice dropped the ball, and apparently Microsoft is picking it up and running with it.

  47. Opt different by sjames · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We have opt out, but what about opt-different

    Will I have the option to USE the DRM hardware to enforce my own security policies? Will that be made easy (freely available documentation and utilities), hard (flash my own BIOS), really hard (get out the soldering iron), or nearly impossible (crack this massive key or cut this connection in the CPU's core).

    That's the real question. Unless it's easy, they're just making the consumer pay for things they don't necessarily want.

  48. Your point is proven. by MsGeek · · Score: 2, Interesting
    And I agree, I don't buy the arguement that if it's available for a reasonable price people will pay for it when it's so easy to get it for free.

    One word: iTunes.

    Right now people are downloading songs at a clip of a million a week. And these are Mac users with MacOS X only. When this makes its way onto Windozers...look out!

    Steve has proven that if people are given a value-added service at a reasonable price, without the spyware and security hazards that P2P seems to be ridden with, they will choose the pay service over the free service. $0.99/song and $9.99/album is a damn good deal. Once the volume kicks in and the Windows users show up, watch the price per song actually go DOWN. Volume, baby! Volume!

    I dislike that the Five Families of the Record Business will get their cut. My husband is a musician and I hate the RIAA even more because of that. The music industry has ripped off musicians from the very beginning, from the Edison Patents Trust on down. However, iTunes is a very compelling reason for me to bite the bullet and upgrade my Mac G3 Blue-and-white to Jagwire and to download iTunes 4.

    Give them ease of use, limits on DRM*, a big pool of music that is growing exponentially day by day, and reasonable prices, and you will make money on downloadable music.

    *Rip your paid-for AACs to CD-DA, Mix 'em up on your playlist, and Burn them to CD-R. Then Re-rip to MP3 or Ogg or whatever is your pleasure.

    --
    Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
  49. Re:Gates is admitting we'll lose control of our PC by senahj · · Score: 2, Interesting


    > When the "Next Generation Secure Computing Base" is in place,
    > expect to pay EVERY time you watch or listen to anything produced
    > by the television networks, the RIAA, and the MPAA.

    You underestimate them.

    In the OS after Longhorn, you will have to pay a monthly fee
    to retain access to to data _you_created_.
    If you have a disk, you will not control its contents;
    you might not be allowed to know what's on it.

    Your data and applications will only work if your computer
    is net-connedted, so that the DRM mechanisms can watch what
    you're doing.

    --
    Wait a minute. Didn't I say that on the other side of the record? I'd better check ...
  50. Thanks but... by KingDaddy'O · · Score: 2, Interesting

    what if I haven't fallen down yet, and if I did, I could get up on my own? Sure, we the people, could choose not to use this technology. But I would imagine that not too long after it creeps into everything technological in our lives, refusing to use it would be in effect like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    How many services would simply not be available to those who choose to take the road less traveled? There are already examples of this kind of insiduously malignant thinking taking place as we live and breathe:

    - a Patriot Act which contained specific 'sunset clauses', now being attempted to be made permanent by Sen. Orin Hatch

    - an incumbent administration which insists on erasing the lines that should clearly be drawn between church and state relationships

    - anything related to the DMCA, UCITA, CDA, P2P, etc.

    - Enron, Tyco, RIAA, MPAA, executive compensation, golden parachutes, and numerous other examples of obscenely piggish & unrepentant favoritism towards all things big business

    - a constant succession of legal decisions favoring the white collar criminals who masquerade as upstanding corporate citizens of our communities

    Why don't they simply make it a legal requirement to ask for and receive anyone's express permission to distribute their personal information? And then make it a felony to fsck with us if we don't sign on the dotted line. Oh yeah, I forgot: because it would be too much of an inconvenience for those who want to abuse our personal information.

    Big Brother never had it so good.

  51. Re:I can't believe people take MS seriously on thi by rkit · · Score: 3, Insightful
    You seem a bit confused about the concept "defense". Probably also about "national".

    If you really want to draw an analogy to international politics, just think about these points:

    which nation is dominating international politics?

    which government is at this very moment severely resticting its "users" (think citizens) rights "in their best interest"?

    which government is taking the chance to secure profit while talking about security?

    which government arguest that "peer review" (think United Nations arms inspection) is a bad thing?
    If your answer to all these questions is "France", please think again.

    --
    sig intentionally left blank
  52. Choose MY company's alternative! by rice_burners_suck · · Score: 3, Funny
    Choose MY company's alternative and get stuck with OUR innovative EULA:

    Mikreausauft Corporation

    END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT (EULA)

    1. By us having written this license agreement, you have agreed to be bound by its terms. Such bondage shall commence at the instant this document is written and shall persist for all of eternity or until the universe self destructs, whichever happens last, and applies even if you are unaware of such application.

    2. You agree that you wish to be bound by the terms of this agreement and that if any statement or clause in this agreement is found unenforceable by a court of law, such a clause will still remain in effect. The previous statement includes itself. You agree to challenge the judge in said court of law to a duel.

    3. PRICE. You agree that all of your physical and/or intellectual property now belongs to Mikreausauft Corporation, including but not limited to all of your money, your house(s), your car(s), your personal belongings and those of your family, friends, coworkers and enemies, and any other property that used to belong to you or any of the aforementioned people, and any other property. You agree that under the terms of this license agreement, we are doing you a huge favor by allowing you to pretend that what used to be your property still is, but that may change at any moment without prior notice. You agree that at any time, with or without notice of any kind, we, including our agents and representatives, may enter into the property that used to be yours in order to search and/or access any property therein, as it belongs to us and it is our right to access it. You agree that such search and seizure shall commence with or without a search warrant, with or without your permission, and with or without any other such legal procedure. You agree that you forfeit the right to due process and may be arrested by us or any of our agents and representatives for any reason and without the right to a fair trial, if one is given at all. You agree that you are our slave forever and ever and that you have no rights under this agreement. You agree that you have signed your soul over to us, that we own you, and that you are our material property to do with as we please. You agree that because Mikreausauft Corporation is a huge multibillion dollar multinational corporation, Mikreausauft Corporation is entitled under the laws of the universe and by divine privelege to eternal perpetually increasing profits.

    3. GRANT OF LICENSE. This EULA grants you the following rights: Not applicable.

    4. LIMITATIONS. You may NOT use the software product that you have paid for. You may NOT return the product for a full or partial refund. You may NOT install the product on any number of computers, including but not limited to zero, one, two, any negative number, any positive number, any rational or irrational number, any real number, any complex number, any imaginary number, any infinite number, any number on any number system or mathematical theory now known, later developed or previously forgotten, any number in any base system, including but not limited to binary, octal, decimal, hexadecimal or any other base system, any number expressed in any numeral system including but not limited to the Roman numerals, Arabic numerals, or any other numeral system, any number recorded by any method or by any means, including but not limited to numbers stored in the digital memory banks of any storage and retrieval system, numbers written on paper, refrigerator magnets, cavemen scribblings or engravings on granite boulders or any other type of rock material, or any other number. The software product may NOT be used by any number of processors on the allowed number of computers. The software product may NOT be used on any day of the week, including but not limited to Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, any day with a name in any language, or any other day. You may NOT reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, twist, spin, poke, prod, mutilate, cut o

  53. A New Priesthood by ewe2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In the DRM article, it's posited that the new slaves of copyright will be computer administrators. Naturally, they'll have to be vetted for a good "copyright history", and have the right pieces of paper. If hardware is being forced into software compliance-checking, how long do you think it will be before the admins themselves are? Before the big tick in the box from Microsoft is the difference between this industry and another?

    Consider that at least as big a problem as "non-compliant" software is the people problem. Your average user will have an appliance that will only operate in a fashion mandated by the DRM keepers. And your commercial network will be overseen by regularly-retested DRM admins. The new gatekeepers. The new priesthood.

    Call it paranoia, but if it's possible, they'll try it.

    --
    insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer
  54. If they stick to it... by AELinuxGuy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...this could well be *the* thing that marks the beginning of the end of relevance for Microsoft. They are going to start requiring that software vendors get certified DRM-compliant before their products are released. So now it takes twice as long for new software to be introduced. Sound familiar? Yea, this is why Novell lost out big time on a x86 server industry they had in the palm of their hands. The line will be drawn and users will not like it but, more importantly, software developers will not tolerate it and move to a new platform.

  55. Ctrl + Alt + Hack by PetoskeyGuy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "In the first demonstration of how the system would work, the company showed Tuesday how programs protected by the technology could not be altered or their communications intercepted by a malicious hacker, who happened to be played by a Microsoft worker dressed in a red T-shirt adorned with a skull."

    "In Tuesday's demonstration, the separate elements work seamlessly with each other. The only difference to the end user was that in the unsecured version, the hacker could alter the program and view the data; in the secure version, he could not."

    If only I could have been there. Watching someone type and being told it worked seemlessly, then watching them type some more and being told they are locked out... I mean WOW. Where do I sign? Does it work with people wearing blue shirts too, or does it detect the skull I wonder? Could it be modified to detect ties and PHBs? Perhaps they have a new API call to disable all the horibly insecure existing API calls which let you snoop on any and all messages and data on the running system.

    "Secure documents created in Microsoft Office, for instance, could be unusable on other operating systems or with other office productivity suites.

    In the interview, Gates said it's up to other companies to ensure interoperability. "

    Maybe when people get tired of doing - File Save as *.txt in order to share their files with others normal people will look a step or two past the default settings. :P

  56. The no-choice choice by serutan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Users can opt to "turn off" the system when it becomes available, most likely in the next generation of Windows expected in 2004 or 2005. But doing so might well severely hamper consumers' access to digital information that's important to them -- and which may indeed be necessary in their work environment.

    Bill's concept of giving Windows users a choice regarding security features is kind of like Senator Bob Dole's concept of giving U.S. citizens a choice of health-care.

    For those too young to remember, Dole ran for president against Bill Clinton and lost. Dole repeatedly justified his vehement opposition to a national health-care system by claiming that consumers would lose the element of choice that they now enjoy with our wonderful corporate-controlled system. He actually said on TV, "Do you want a bunch of guys in suits deciding what your health care choices are?" I remember wondering at the time whether he was talking about some hypothetical big-government guys-in-suits, or the real-life guys-in-suits who run insurance companies and HMOs, who currently make those decisions for us. For most Americans with normal incomes, "health care choice" consists of whatever is offered by the company where they are currently hanging onto a job.

    The idea that Windows users will have a meaningful choice about using Palladium security is just such a fantasy. Yeah, if you want to isolate yourself from all commercially produced content, go ahead and turn off Palladium. It's your choice. While you're at it, go ahead and disconnect from the power grid and the phone system. Like it's that easy.

    I've been wondering for a while what in the hell Microsoft possibly thinks is going to inspire people to junk their PCs and buy new hardware so they can run Palladium Windows. Particularly the 40 million Win98 users who still haven't done that. Will MS invoke an obscure EULA clause that allows them to outlaw using the OS after a certain date? Will they simply stop supplying security patches and let virus authors do the rest?

    I now believe Microsoft's deployment plan is to get content providers on board, with the promise of total copyright control and self-destructing documents that will force a subscription model on everybody. Of course, Microsoft won't be the bad guy any more than Grokster is the bad guy -- they're only providing a platform.

    Bill and Steve know that most people want to be part of the world they live in. The teeming masses don't crave the adventure of living in a yurt with a solar panel and a shortwave radio. If major content providers announce a deadline after which all new documents will be inaccessible to older systems, people will buy new systems.

    If Linux can be locked out by DMCA and other means, then the consumer computing world will be even more sharply divided than it was in the early Apple/IBM days. Bill is counting on most people wanting to stay in the mainstream, and I think he's right. It's called the mainstream for a reason.

    At this point I don't see any way that anybody is going to prevent Microsoft from doing what it wants to do. The only question is whether it will actually work. Doubters can glibly forecast that the first time Palladium gets hacked will spell doom, but a constant stream of security problems hasn't stopped Windows so far. It's possible that Bill has already played his last card and sitting back smiling, waiting for everybody to realize that he has already won the game.

  57. Freudian slip? by IchBinEinPenguin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The like a vegetarian comment is chilling.

    Just try getting a vegetarian meal in your average restaurant.

    Inferior quality, restricted choice, having to go without the entree and half the time you end up with non-vegetarian stuff anyway!

    Sound like the future of non-DRM software to me :-(

  58. Hardware by awol · · Score: 2, Insightful

    With all the talk about how DRM enabled hardware will "lock out" the use of non DRM enabled software, I am prompted to say.

    I choose not to play the game. I am happy to miss out on the latest DRM enabled whizz bang thing (as I have posted before). But let us assume that the mainstream hardware manufacturers go down the path of pandering to the DRM zealots.

    Can we create open hardware. I mean, I know that there are certain open hardware products, but can we really create a "Free (as in speech) Hardware" movement, or is the capital barrier too high. Can we get the Fab plant to make chips/drives motherboards, can we even get the designs for hardware to use? If we cannot then are we screwed or is there market enought in the non-DRM world enough for the manufacturers to justify sales, will they even be permitted to manufacture the hardware regardless of the potential market. Will the Chinese come to our rescue by virtue by being big enough and ugly enough to tell the DRM driven west where to get off and proceed to make the un crippled hardware we require?

    And even more important than all this, will the governments that are increasing the services they provide via technology based means (for example the internet) retain free standards that do not require their citizens to use a particular OS/DRM regime in order to interact with the organs of the state. It is this aspect of the whole thing that to me is most scary. Scary because it is the classic path to disenfranchisement. Which is a bad thing(TM).

    It is the use of IP to restrain access to unencumbered hardware and similary access the services that my government demands I use that concerns me. Whether I get to use the latest online game or not really doesn't matter.

    --
    "The first thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is stop digging."