Should Apple Buy TiVo?

st. jude writes "In a story over at Business 2.0, John Battelle says yes. As the man who made music downloading legit, maybe His Steveness can conquer Hollywood's loathing of the PVR next. As a lover of both my TiVo and my Mac, the thought makes this dreamer drool ... TiVo + Mac = iTV ... two great tastes that taste great together? Or just another version of a long-rumored geek fantasy that's as silly as the iWalk?" Although, if it means per-show payments, I'll pass.

Comments

of course.

[poil11]

just as long as they can make my ipod record my favorite shows.

One has got to wonder

[ike6116]

How long TiVO's would be running Linux under the hood if Apple did annex TiVO. Personally, im all for it.

Re:One has got to wonder

[GoRK]

Probably quite a while since TiVo has changed from PPC to MIPS and that'd mean another port of OS/X.

Plus, the cost of reimplementing every piece of software on the unit, head end servers, and back-end data processing systems and the like while maintaining interoperability with the old equipment out there probably outdoes the cost saved by only having to maintain one codebase -- plus if they *bought* tivo, they'd get all the engineers that go along with it -- embedded linux engineers.

Sort of like how Microsoft bought Hotmail and only recently (within the last year or so) got it onto the Windows platform (most of the MTA's are actually still UNIX though)

Re:One has got to wonder

[diverman]

Wow! Been a while since I've seen someone give props to OS/2. :) Maybe I should unzip my last OS/2 disk image to an old PC just to reminisce. I loved that you could just unzip the disk image and it would boot. Made for really flexible blasting of fresh images to new machines.

-Alex

Re:One has got to wonder

[awtbfb]

How long TiVO's would be running Linux under the hood if Apple did annex TiVO. Personally, im all for it.

I would not assume that Apple would change to a new OS. Keep in mind that Apple uses a 3rd party OS for the iPod.

And

[Isbiten]

It will only be avalible in US but will be availible in Europe shorty after.

Wait didn't they say that about iPhoto and iTunes Music store too... /me goes back to the madressed cell.

Re:And

[jlower]

You think TiVo is available worldwide now? You can't even use it in Canada.

Re:And

[sogoodsofarsowhat]

Funny i know lots of canadians using Tivo's (especially DTIVO's)..... Dont make me laugh. Do you think its because canadians have different power? There is no reason a Tivo will not work in Canada. (and before you start with the crap about only supplying programming for the US, i suggest you get some US programming up there, yes its available, and is way better then that drivel called canadian TV. Why do i know this, well lets just say, Canadians for one, take their US TV very seriously. MWUHAHAHAHAHAHA)

TiVo is dieing

[quandrum]

Everyday new PVR (DVR) technologies come out. Many of these don't have subscription fees. ./ geeks even know of some homebuilt linux solutions. There is nothing that TiVo provides that can't be had for free or for cheaper.

OTH, they have lasted this long because they provide all these things in one box in an easy to use form factor. Hallmarks of Apple. But I don't think the Steve's golden touch can help TiVo.. it's on the way out unless they can find a new buisness model. Sorry.

Re:TiVo is dieing

[jlower]

There is nothing that TiVo provides that can't be had for free or for cheaper.

Totally incorrect. Sadly, the biggest problem with TiVo is explaining to those who've never used it just why it's so great. It's something you just have to live with for a while to understand.

This would be silly

[BortQ]

Apple doesn't need TiVo because they already have the equivalent capabilities. A mac with the right software could do everything that TiVo does. What has Apple been spending its time on these days? The answer is software.

Now that they also have the nifty music store thingy set up it probably wouldn't be that hard to add videos of all kinds to their offerings. (Although they would have to change the name away from 'music store').

Re:This would be silly

[WatertonMan]

While this is true in theory, in practice it isn't. There isn't an equivalent to iTunes for PVR for the Mac. There are some opensource Linux projects that have been ported. But in terms of UI they suck. (At least based upon what I've read and seen) You could in theory use iMovie and pipe the video through your camcorder. But that loses most of what makes a PVR cool - i.e. easy timed recording.

There also is limited *good* hardware for the Mac. Yes there is EyeTV and I know some people love that. Personally I'm not sure I like it as much as a stand alone PVR. I came close to buying one but didn't.

This really is a place Apple could clean everyones clock with. Especially if they had a HDTV version.

Skipping Ads

[oni]

From the article: Mystro TV decides which programs can be recorded and whether ads can be skipped.

I'm trying to picture them asking advertisers if it's ok to allow viewers to skip their ads. "Oh, sure" they'll say "we don't mind if they skip this ad we paid a megabuck for"

That's not likely to happen. So basically, every ad will be skip-protected and this device will actually be worse than an old fashioned VCR.

I dunno...

[HebrewToYou]

Is it really necessary for Apple to begin incorporating all these 'traditional,' and I use the term loosely, media devices into their collective? I'm as big a fan of Apple as they come -- I just think that at some point they might be stretching themselves thin. It's not a stretch for Apple to tackle television recording as the next big thing. I'd just rather they spend their time doing something a bit more related to the field of personal computing. But hey, maybe we'll see the return of those Apple TV/Tuner cards like the one in my Ancient Performa 6320. Those were pretty nifty....when I was in middle school. ;)

Re:I dunno...

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it really necessary for Apple to begin incorporating all these 'traditional,' and I use the term loosely, media devices into their collective?

Well, yeah. For the last couple years, Apple's big thing has been the digital hub. Steve Jobs says your computer (Macintosh) should be the center of your digital lifestyle, and Apple's mission has been to deliver on that vision. (ack, synergy, paradigm, I sound like a PHB!)

People keep getting all these little gadgets to enhance small areas of their digital lifestyle (pda, pvr, dvd player, portable music player, in-home stereo, digicam, dvcam, etc, etc). Most of them don't have a single, simple way of managing all that. Some of them don't want/need that, but many people would like it. This is where Apple believes they can make a real difference, and perhaps spur another (r)evolution.

One of Apple's claims to fame has always been that "it just works." To achieve this, they do it the right way: by designing each piece of the system to work seamlessly as a whole. As an exapmle, take MP3 players. Buy one of many brands for your Windows machine, and then want to upload your music to it: probably need to install some drivers, maybe some software, and then transfer (make sure you know where your MP3s are kept on the hard drive). Buy an iPod for a Mac, plug it in, It Just Works.

People are used to not knowing how to control or fully utilize their technological gadgets. The old cliche that people don't know how to program their VCRs, let alone set the clock. Apple is trying to say it doesn't have to be that way. They're trying to change all that. But if they stop at simply making their software work with other devices, the user experience isn't quite as good. Hopefully it's better than it was without Apple in the loop, but not as good as it could be. What if PVR XYZ is supposed to interoperate with the Mac, but there are issues due to its design which are beyond Apple's control? What if the manufacturer of PVR XYZ changes something internal that breaks interoperability in newer units without telling anyone?

To avoid this, Apple is branching out and offering their own versions of these things. Well, so far it's basically just the iPod and nobody knows if they will introduce more devices in the future. All they're saying is, buy the system out of all our parts, and it'll just work. If you want to put different parts in your digital setup, go head; it'll probably work just fine, but it may not be as nice as what we can offer.

All that said, who knows if this will ever happen? It will be interesting to see, for sure.

Jobs?

[sporty]

Did Steve Jobs submit this? I'm disappointed in him. Slashdot is NOT a lawyer or business forum.

Music and TV not quite the same thing

[mizidymizark]

I think the reason Tivo has been mildly successful is not because of the programming on TV, but because of the features it has. Since most computers can get these same features with a simple TV card, I couldn't see Apple trying to offer this as a service. If they make it easy to record and more importantly, share programing over a network, then I could see Apple being interested. It seems like the Music Store thing has prompted all sorts of expectations for Apple to delve into other forms of media, but I would hope that Apple makes sure the Music Store continues to be a success before diving into these deep pools.

No Chance

[Anonymous Coward]

There's one very good reason why this will not happen. Apple, now more than ever, needs to convince major record labels that he is on the side of protecting intellectual property. The labels' biggest fear is losing control over their vast libraries as part of a distribution agreement. Jobs won't do anything that casts even a shred of doubt over his role as one of the good guys.

A very good couple.

[zbowling]

The idea is a very exciting to think about. With Apple's track record with working with Unix based products (Tivo being Linux based) and very great history of graphics processing (I haven't worked at a TV station yet that could say that haveing Windows machines is better then having a majority of Macs in the graphics and video departments) the match would be perfect.

Apple also has a histroy of being the underdog with the more soild product and bug free product. I could see Tivo really changing with support from Apple, and maybe a bunch of new features. Apple would benifit in fighting the OS wars again if it owned Tivo. As it has done with products in the past, (such as the I-POD) make them intergrate with only their product (at least at first). I don't know anyone who can't say that the I-POD being only useable on Mac at first didn't help sales of the Mac in at least the smallest bit.

A down side you might see is a change in the policy to allow commerical skipping. Being a larger company with its own active interest in commericals might be compailed to retract some of the ease of this feature. On the other hand it might not because of the competition from SonicBlue's ReplayTV which from what I hear alread has better commerical skipping technology that detects commericals and automaticly skips them. (I own a ReplayTV 4500, which has this feature. From what I have heard, Tivo allows you to manually skip.)

I would buy a Tivo if Apple bought them. I'm a dedicated UNIX/Linux (former Mac user as of 1994), who programs for Windows at work. My interest in Mac is comming back now with their dedication to designing such a soild product.

I'm for an Apple owned Tivo. Its better for everyone (expect Micro$oft, hehehe).

Some missing the "picture"

[Visigothe]

...no pun intended.

What some people are missing is that Jobs dislikes TV quite a bit. He's gone on record saying that he doesn't see TV as a part of the "Digital Hub" strategy, as it is a passive medium. With music, you can bring it anywhere with you. With television, you're prettymuch resigned to sitting on the sofa and letting the cool rays wash over you. Apple has always promoted a "lifestyle". This "lifestyle" is active, smart and creative. It involves doing things, *making* videos, *making* music, not "just sitting there".

I don't think he'd [Jobs] go for buying TiVo. It isn't part of "The Grande Vision"

wow....hold up

[mgbaron]

Woh...hold the phone. Let's not call the iTunes music service a success just yet. While I am a huge fan already and it has definately won me over, let's not forget that us over zealous mac fans are just a very small portion of the market. When I tell my non mac friends about the store I have difficulty convincing them of its advantages...

And let's not forget about Apple's recent troubles porting their iTunes software to windows. This battle is far from over in terms of winning the rest of the market over. Some of the record labels are viewing the Mac situation as a small market test, as I believe Jobs sold it to them. They are unsure it should be moved to the windows platform so soon.

So as for purchasing TiVo... I am all for it, in the long run. My point is simply that we should be more careful with terms like "conquer." The iTunes music store is far from conquering anything... and with their recent removal of radiohead from the database...i think they are one step further at that.

Re:wow....hold up

[hdflsts2002]

"And let's not forget about Apple's recent troubles [thestar.com] porting their iTunes software to windows."

First clarification, my comments are not aimed at you but at this comment in general. I have seen similar posts all over the place and finally enough is enough. What are the troubles in porting this to windows? Studio issues? The only studio exec to be identified was the CTO for Sony. While the tech guys will have input as to wether the lables go for a windows version of iTunes or not, the financial folk will have a greater part in the decision making process.

This quote from the above mentioned article sums that point up best.

"Sources at other labels maintain that if the demand and money is there, concerns regarding usage rules will not be an issue in the long run."

If the issue is that it is not available for windows, my reply would be, when did any windows developer ever get blasted for releasing a new product and not have a Mac version available on release, or ever for that matter? Seems to me that those using this issue to some how indicate that iTunes is a not so grate product are simply suffering from Platform Envy.

I am sure TiVo is good technology...

[pretentiousPPC]

but really, tell me exactly who is willing to buy a nearly $300 box and then pay $14 a month after that for it to just work properly, and for the the privilege for all of there TV viewing habits to be sold off to marketers? People who are, are stupid, and the company that thinks that this is a decent business plan is even stupider.
Apple's not stupid, and they wont be touching a subscription based company, BTW isn't iTunes suppose to be so great because it isn't subscription based?

At this very moment MS has the technology to just roll over TiVo within the year, they have the Xbox, WebTV, and Windows Media Player, toss all of this into box added with the usual MS marketing and you got a killer app. that will kill TiVo and all the other PVRs at the moment, and anyone in the industry should know this and would balk at attempting to go up against it--everyone except for the likes of Sony.
Sony is the only one with the resources, name, and establishment to beat MS to the punch, too bad for TiVo, Sony likes to keep things in house and won't be knocking on there door to buy them out.

Re:I am sure TiVo is good technology...

[zsmooth]

Ummm... The rest of your ill-thought out diatribe aside, Sony has licensed TiVo's technology and sells a Sony branded TiVo.

Re:I am sure TiVo is good technology...

[pretentiousPPC]

And it will likely feel as crappy and kludged together as all of those homebrew linux on tv projects

Hasn't time proven that this the perfect MS buisness plan??

Re:I am sure TiVo is good technology...

[duggy_92127]

...but really, tell me exactly who is willing to buy a nearly $300 box and then pay $14 a month after that for it to just work properly, and for the the privilege for all of there TV viewing habits to be sold off to marketers?

<raises hand>

It's pretty obvious to me that you've never really used a TiVo, nor even looked into the privacy issue. First of all, "my info" is never sold to anybody; aggregate info is sold to networks. TiVo can look at its users' usage as an anonymous whole and say things like "this commercial was watched by 80% of the people" or "only 30% of TiVo owners recorded that show." This hardly gives the network any info about ME.

Second... simply put, TiVo will change the way you think about TV, and depending on how much TV you watch, can literally change your life. I just gave one to a friend as a wedding gift. She was worried she'd just turn into a couch potato, but she says it has had the opposite effect: instead of having to be home when a particular show is broadcast, she can arrange her own schedule and watch the show when she has time. TiVo has freed her from the shackles of network scheduling, and she spends more evenings out with her friends now.

But all that aside, it's just a better way to watch TV. How often to you bother to record a show so you can watch it later? With a TiVo, you can do it in seconds, and no worries about finding a tape or anything. It just there, and it just works.

Of course, in many instances, you only have to do that once. Hear about a new show coming up, might be worth watching? Set up a season pass. Your TiVo will record every episode, even if the network moves it around. You can do this weeks in advance, and only remember the new show when you see it in your TiVo list of shows. Even if the show sucks and you erase the season pass, at least you got to see it.

Of course, we use season passes for everything: grab all the episodes of the shows we like, or always keep a couple "I Love Lucy" on the list so we can watch them when we're doing something else in the living room.

Not to mention wishlists. I thought Amy Smart was pretty cute, so I told my TiVo to grab any sitcom episode that she was in. It found a couple Felicity and Scrubs episodes, which was cool. In fact, I so liked the Scrubs ep that I threw in a season pass for it; we'll see how some other ones are.

Many of these activities you cannot do with a VCR and a TV Guide, or it would take hours of poring over the text and programming the thing, not to mention the tapes. With the TiVo, it's all wrapped up in a truly easy-to-use on-screen GUI. It really is the beginning of the next generation of television.

At this very moment MS has the technology to just roll over TiVo within the year, they have the Xbox, WebTV, and Windows Media Player, toss all of this into box added with the usual MS marketing and you got a killer app. that will kill TiVo and all the other PVRs at the moment...

It was called Ultimate TV, and it bombed, and TiVo never even blinked. Thank you, please play again.

Doug

Apple's Lovely UI Design

[NanoGator]

"Honey? Why does the remote have only one button?"

iMovie Store, anyone?

[davstein]

This sounds like a logical extension of the iTunes Music Store. I would venture guess Apple has a component audio iBox (at the least) in the works.

So, they buy TiVo or make an audio/video box and voila, you can stream not only your iTunes library to your stereo but MPEG 4 video as well! Slap on a Airport Extreme card and you're ready to get jiggy or watch a flick on your TV.

Imagine an iMovie store, where you can buy a movie, burn it to DVD or stream it to your iBox...sounds pretty good, and a logical extension, to me!

Re:the man who made music downloading legit

[Razzak]

True. I'm not buying anything from the Apple store. But it's not just the brand that less evil. He got it so you can stream it and also burn it as many times as you'd like, something nobody else in the industry could get the record companies to agree to.

It doesn't really matter though. In 10 years, You're going to see the big 5 drop from 85% of the record industry to 40%, and we won't be complaining so much.

I want my iTV

[s4dfish]

I want my iTV (bad 80s rock in the backgound)

Why do people buy iPods?

[Johnny Mozzarella]

A Mac with the right software(iTunes) can do the same things.

Apple made an MP3 player because they could make it significantly better. I believe Apple could also make a significantly better PVR. I'm not saying that you couldn't get all the hardware and software together and do it yourself. Apple can deliver the total package.

Also if Apple wanted to expand into downloadable videos, I don't thing users would go for it clogging up their computer hard drives. A seperate hub device that stores all your movies, photos and music and allows them to be shared to your local network would be more appealling.

Imagine if the iPVR could recompress all the shows it's recorded for syncing with your iPod(320x240). Then you could have your video to go.

Per-Show Payments

[TheRaven64]

Although, if it means per-show payments, I'll pass.

I have the oppisite view. I have practically given up watching broadcast TV now. I simply do not have enough life to waste 15 minutes of it in an hour watching adverts. I generally wait for the DVD release (which usually has better sound, better picture quality and no ads). If I could buy an episode of a TV show for a reasonable price (and the reasonable part is important) then I would probably do that.