Slashdot Mirror
Gator Examined
Ben Perry writes "News.com.com has a story about a Harvard researcher's study on how Gator operates. The report 'provides some data as to how much advertising Gator is showing and to whom it is targeted' and focuses on where Gator replaces a site's ads with Gator's ads. Gator is facing several lawsuits because of this technique."
Well, we did all kinda know that gator was obnoxious, especially those of us who inadvertently installed it when it was quite new. While what it does is obnoxious, it really isn't as bad as how it gets on peoples systems in the first place.
My experience was that the user was forced to swallow gator along with software that they actually want, and was not told accurately or fully what gator would actually do. Just a nice little flowery version that makes it sound like a good thing.
What browser are you using?
If you're using (gasp) MSIE (version 5.5 or greater, I think), it already has password saving and form filling. Other browsers (like Mozilla and Opera) should also have that capability, though I'm not 100% certain.
* Q
P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another.
Bet you won't see that in their prospectus, but it's the truth.
Gator? Ohhh.. you mean one of those things my Privoxy and Squid combo block?
Trolling is a art,
"Eighty percent of the magic is what he'll never see," Eagle said of Edelman and his findings in a phone interview. "He's only touching a part of the elephant."
Wow. Now that's clear, easily understandable logic. I guess it was just too much to refute the study's claims on actual facts, rather than dredging up tired cliches.
I'd really like to know how effectual advertising via annoying popups really can be. I mean I thought it was proven that internet advertising doesn't work. Right now I'm reading slashdot with ads all over it, unless I'm looking right at them I'll never even think twice about them.
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
I thought this was going to be some floridian biology course.
"Companies like Google, Overture and Gator are shining examples of success,. . ."
/. article where he says he is doing nothing different than what other advertisers use the postal system for. The two situations aren't even close.
To comapre Google to spammers and spyware manufacturers is like, well, I can't think of anything right now. But the comparison is ridiculous.
Reminds me of the quote from the spammer Scelson from a previous
How can you trust your passwords to an app the likes of gator? It is clear to me that they have to ethical backbone.
"Eighty percent of the magic is what he'll never see," Eagle said of Edelman and his findings in a phone interview. "He's only touching a part of the elephant."
Touching magic elephants?! What do they have in the coffee at Gatpor HQ?
Spybot seems a bit more comprehensive and user friendly than Adaware, but to be sure I run both. :-)
"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
There is absolutely nothing in that article that is news to anyone here. Well, except maybe the fact that Sun uses Gator to advertise. I wouldn't have thought they'd stoop that low, especially since many people boycott companies that use services such as Gator to advertise.
I guess it really doesn't matter if I boycott Sun, though. I'm much more likely to implement a Linux solution than a Sun solution. It's all about the Benjamins, and I don't generally do work for companies with unlimited (or even moderately deep) pockets.
jred
I'm not a mechanic but I play one in my garage...
"Eagle contends that advertisers are only permitted to target groups of sites, not individual Web sites. But on Tuesday, after being alerted to the existence of the Berkman study, Gator deleted marketing materials from its Web site that suggested otherwise. The deleted Web page, which had existed since at least February 2002, had promised: 'Gator can pop up your advertising or promotional message anywhere--even at a competitor's site.'" The beauty of the web is that they can delete whatever pages they'd like and archive.org still has them cached and readily available for viewing by the people they tried to keep in the dark.
I checked Freshmeat and SourceForge. It seems that the Linux coders are far behind the technology curve. Just another example of the superiority of closed source software.
- - - If the sun is a star, why can't I see it at night?
It's a program that automatically fills out web forms for you. I'm surprised anyone at all has downloaded it, since I find autocompletion the most annoying thing a web browser can do. They have a bunch of other programs now too, but they all carry the same type of spyware.
There are some times when I hate how many programs esp. on the internet wont work with Linux. Then there is Gator.com and everything is put back in to perspective.
It's nice not getting those popups, "Would you like to set your homepage to gator.com"=]
500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
Frankly I am vehemetly against loosing my computing freedom but I would very happily choose to loose the freedom to write exploitive parasiteware that does not help the user one bit.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
Gator is crap. Gator is being sued by many people who think the product is crap. Gator has several competitors who are equally as shady and crappy as Gator. Gator spies on you, reports to an unknown authority about your habits and tendencies, and people still use it. These people are not quick to show themselves because they know they are idiots for using this crap. Then the author proceeds to compare this crap with the success of a legitimate company like Google. How is this helpful article? It only states the obvious. Gator and its ilk are crap and now there is a crappy article about it all.
"Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs" - George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)
In my experience, Gator is not as much of a problem as GAIN (Gator Advertising & Information Network) - where Gator is the e-wallet, GAIN is the ad (spy) ware. Getting rid of Gator isn't so hard, but removing GAIN involves removing the application its using - for most Windows users this would mean removing IE, and we all know how difficult that can be...
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
-dunar
Gator is everywhere.
It is all around us even now in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television.
You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes.
It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Companies like this exist for one reason : loopholes. Much like how spam operates. And when it comes down to the legality of it, they claim "you signed up for it!" Right... No, I signed up for the program that came bundled with YOUR spyware. And they say it has easy password forms, etc? What browser does NOT include these features? Password forms? Sounds real secure, let some internet-capable program saving cached passwords to sites you've purchased items on! On windows XP no less! Horray for you, smart end user.
Go punch an internet marketing executive in his face, today. You'll feel better, and I'll mail you a dollar.
...but I repeat myself.
Sun Microsystems is using this spyware windows program to target people going to IBM's website? Is this an allegorical example fabricated for the article, or is Sun actually doing this?
I've disagreed with some of their technical decisions lately. I've certainly disagreed with some of their marketing decisions lately. But, for them to use one of the most abusive advertizing mechanisms on the Internet, is dissapointing if it's true.
What's next - "Get a B!GG3R Server - She won't believe your bandwidth" in my in-box?
Unless I missed something...
We have had dumbasses within our company install Gator, and it generates pop-ups on our intranet pages as well, not just "targeted" domains.
I didn't seem to see anything in there that covered that.
My friend bought a new computer and after about 3 months it was running very very slowly. I removed Gator and some other stuff and computer perked up instantly. Well after about 4 reboots.
A customer installed it on his computer and several programs including application I support ceased to function, and these were the apps he needed to do his job. The only way we could fix it was to re-image the hard drive.
My friend's staff installed some sort of calendar tool and gator came with that. Personally I can't think of any reason to install it. The last thing I'd want to do is hand my passwords to anything that sends my information back over the internet. How would I know that it wasn't sending my passwords too?
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
Eventually, I got so sick of the whole booting up to find a new and horrific new chunk of spyware on my comp, having been downloaded by her that I ended up just formatting C: and going back to my old system files.
I certainly hope Gator gets sued into oblivion. It'll be one less thing to clean off my hard drive after my sister comes within 5 feet of the computer.
A question, though. Has anyone here ever actually bought anything off a pop-up ad after seeing it? I know I haven't, nor have I heard of anyone doing so, it just seems to be a money hole for the advertisers on the whole.
Seems to me that at one point I could actually remember making decisions based on the quality of the service offer, not the pop-up ads or advertising hype that became an intrusive part of my daily life. But maybe that's just me feeling old at 23.
I don't really trust Gator at all, but if you a have an effective popup blocker, the software is actually really nice. Not only does it remember your passwords and forms, but it can fill in a form, even if you have never visited the page before. It has enough intelligence to know to put your address into a form that has a slot that says "Address" or "Address #1", and your last name in a form slot that says "Last Name" or "Sirname" or "Full Name".
If it were available for a fee without the adware/spyware, I would buy it.
I've come up with an innovative alternative to Gator. I just memorize my passwords. Fortunately, companies haven't yet figured out how to advertise on the inside of my eyelids. . .
!#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
If you like Gator's features but hate the spyware part, why not try RoboForm? It's probably less likely to crash your system anyway.
Personally however I'd recommend Password Safe for storing things like credit card numbers, bank details etc. It's not that I don't trust Mozilla to do the job, but I just prefer a standalone and simple program for that kind of thing. It also lets you add comments and notes and it's easy to copy it onto a keyring USB device and carry it around with the database.
Internet Options->Security->Custom level.
Tick disable rather than prompt for 'download signed activx controls'.
You could add gator to the restricted zone while your there.
I.O.U One Sig.
I found adaware didn't work too well through the ISP/Employer's proxy. It told me I had ads but it didn't stop them.
/etc depending on your op sys. hosts.sam is a sample file and needs renaming to "hosts" (ie no .sam, to work.
the "hosts" file is in your windows dir or maybe in
127.0.0.1 is local host ie your computer
connect blah blah is what I don't want
# thingy is a comment
Ie send requests for what I don't want to my bit bucket.
Sample mod:
127.0.0.1 connect.247media.ads.link4ads.com # 247media.ads.link4ads.com
127.0.0.1 www.24pm-affiliation.com # 24pm-affiliation.com
127.0.0.1 im.800.com # 800.com
127.0.0.1 us.a1.yimg.com # a1.yimg.com
127.0.0.1 view.accendo.com # accendo.com
127.0.0.1 actionsplash.com # actionsplash.com
127.0.0.1 ads1.activeagent.at # activeagent.at
127.0.0.1 primetime.ad.asap-asp.net # ad.asap-asp.net
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
Interesting, I went to look at www.gator.com, but the first time round I typed gator.com instead. Apparently Gator has a Debian mirror, but you can't access it from the outside. (No doubt it will disappear soon after it gets Slashdotted.)
...it's sneaking the spyware on the victim's machine without his informed consent that's an unfair business practice. I worry that the courts, or far worse, the legislature, will miss the point. Instead of forcing spyware to announce its presence more clearly, they'll go after the wrong thing and make modification of commercial web pages illegal, which is not only Not The Issue, it's a major "YRO" offense - an offense to our liberties.
Conceivably, and according to the bullshit they spew in their defense, a customer could want the service they provide, namely (supposedly) an intelligent browsing agent that gives the user helpful information (i.e. Expedia's airfares) based on his interests (i.e. browsing Orbitz.com). Suppose someone actually found this desirable, and maybe even found it desirable to modify his browser's rendering of a web page, or perform search-and-replace operations on the original HTML document, so that, say, every banner ad became an Expedia link. Surely he should be allowed to install such a program if he wanted. It's not as if Orbitz can sue me for modifying or differently rendering their web page in the privacy of my own home! Unless the government makes it so, in its infinite lack of wisdom.
The issue is not that spyware "hijacks" commercial web pages, but that it deceives the victim. There needs to be a doctrine of "clear language" applied to contracts like clickwrap licenses. A contract is (or ought to be) invalid if a party does not understand its terms. When Kazaa gives you fifty pages of 8-point legalese in a ten-line window, a user of reasonable competence cannot be expected to notice, let alone understand, all the contracts he is implicitly entering into - including the contract that says "We the Gator Corporation get to fuck with your computer and read all your email and analyze your personality and sell it to porn companies and degrade your performance by 95% and never tell you about it hahahahaha."
That's what the government should work to correct. But forgive me if I'm not exactly filled with confidence that it will.
"That government is best which governs least." -- Henry David Thoreau
"The more laws, the less justice." -- Marcus Tullius Cicero
What Would Jesus Do
(for a Klondike bar)?
People actually use gator on purpose? Who is this a Gator developer? Really, if you want password management you should be using Mozilla. Anyone that supports a business model based on spyware should be drug out on the street and shot. Why would anyone be using IE these days unless they were forced to by their employer?
A quick search produced this. Google is your friend.
"Rub her feet." -- L.L.
Sounds to me like an easily-abused out for people who either didn't read the EULA, or simply want to get out of a contract they regret entering.
Being able to claim ignorance as a reason to get out of a contract is a terrible idea because it puts the burden on the other party to prove that you did in fact understand the terms.
There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
It would be interesting to see what other popular "helper" applications like Gator do. For example, I see plenty of people in my work place with WeatherBug or WebShots installed on their computers. They have to be collecting information and replacing ads much like Gator does.
Google-Watch's allegations have already been debunked many times on Slashdot.
Google was the first search engine to use a cookie that expires in 2038
And Alta-Vista was the first search engine to use a cookie that expires in 2013. So what? I doubt anyone's still going to be using their same computer on either date, and you can delete cookies if you feel like it.
For all searches they record the cookie ID, your Internet IP address, the time and date, your search terms, and your browser configuration.
They're called server logs, and just about every webserver keeps 'em. Apache and IIS do it by default.
Google won't say why they need this data:
Market research? Improving searches? etc.?
Google hires spooks
Heaven forbid anyone who used to work at CIA/NSA from making a living after they leave!!! Anyways, it's not like a security clearance would be useful for, say, running the intranet search engine at the Pentagon?
Google's toolbar is spyware
Before you install the toolbar Google VERY clearly states that info will be sent to them if you enable the advanced features - it even has "PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY, IT'S NOT THE USUAL YADA YADA" in red letters up the top. I'd say there isn't any better way to disclose what they're doing to users.
Many webmasters have deleted questionable material from their sites, only to discover later that the problem pages live merrily on in Google's cache. The cache copy should be "opt-in" for webmasters, not "opt-out."
There's a clear opt-out process. If it was opt-in, the cache would be essentially useless. As for it being illegal - I'll quote Microdoc News. There have also been complaints that the "Google cache" feature violates copyright, however the consensus seems to be that caching is a normal part of the functionality of the web, and that HTTP provides adequate mechanisms for requesting that caching be disabled (which Google presumably respects; Google also honors the robots.txt file.)
If he tries to take advantage of some of the known weaknesses in Google's semi-secret algorithms, he may find himself penalized by Google, and his traffic disappears.
Translation: If they use a weakness in Google's algorithm and Google fixes the algorithm later, they whine about their rankings going down - which were inflated above other, more relevant ones by using a bug!
Talk about sour grapes... IIRC Google-Watch was started when its webmaster lost ranking for another of his sites due to the Google algorithms being changed.
Google is completely unaccountable.
They're a privately held company. They don't have to be accountable, as long as they stay within the law.
Why, because 47% of (australian?) people believe they should invest something even if they think the offer is too good to be true.
Too good to be true, full report page 54
scary stuff. Lots of nigerians making money out of it. Not to mention dinner party ladies across the USA.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
"What Truth?"
"There is no Gator."
Imagine if Microsoft had a name that suited them as well....
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
In many cases, it can help to use 0.0.0.0. If you use 127.0.0.1, it tries to connect to your local system and fails about 1 second later*; if you use 0.0.0.0, your TCP/IP stack will generally reject it immediately, so pages will load faster.
* - assuming you aren't running a local webserver - if you are, it'll just give you an instant 404 which is almost as good as using 0.0.0.0 but uses ever so slightly more resources (i.e. your httpd).
* Q
P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another.
why doesn't anyone ever create a virus that spreads like a worm, but all it does is remove people's spyware.. i guess that'd be too nice huh?
MABASPLOOM!
There has to be a DMCA violation or a potential lawsuit in there somewhere....
"Your honor, by memorizing his passwords, PhsBlue is depriving us of potential income!"
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
Imagine the horror I faced the other day. As I approached my computer, I saw a co-worker sitting at my desk, his finger on the left-mouse button. Eyeing the screen, I screamed "NOOOOOOOoooooo!" as I ran to take control of the mouse. But it was too late - the button was already pressed down, and he - like a suicide bomber waiting to blow up - had only to release his finger. It was a hopeless situation, and my computer was doomed.
GNU Keyring on my Palm Pilot does a pretty good job, too. I know that it's as secure as the password I use on it, and I like carrying around my password database rather than having it live on my PC.
Matthew P. Barnson
I learn what I think when I read what I write
He would prefer that searches for, say, "Oliver North", turn up this, rather than this.
Quoting Brandt quoting himself: Regarding his opposition to Google's hegemony, Brandt says, "It feels like the right thing to do. It's the cyber equivalent of my draft resistance days." (see U.S. v. Brandt, 435 F2d 324, United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit, Dec. 4, 1970)
Gator is truly annoying, but that is not the problem.
If Gator is successfully sued for affecting advertising, that could affect court cases against popup-blockers, or even ReplayTV and TiVo. We could loose truly useful products as collateral damage.
PRESS RELEASE: MICROSOFT INNOVATES IN NEW VERSION OF INTERNET EXPLORER
Store all your passwords, financial data and other personal information on a central server! Never again will you have to remember a password or PIN, since you can conveniently access all your data from a Microsoft server*! Microsoft have made it so easy for you by uploading all your data automatically, no questions asked! In addition, we use our patented Malware(TM) advanced artificial intelligence to analyse your movements online and offer services tailored just for you! To make this as pleasant an experience as possible, we even share your data with third parties so that you are only offered services that suit your interests.
"Microsoft has always strived to deliver the best value for money in the industry," reported Tom Rort of The Gartner Group. "Microsoft products pay off big time for me! I'd give this release a rating of five dollar-signs," said Mary Swindle of The Aberdeen Group.
Once again, Microsoft has shown its commitment to looking out for the best interests of its customers.
* cost of retrieval is $US9.99 per transaction, and since Microsoft already have your financial data, we conveniently deduct the money from your bank account automatically.
OLPC Australia
I noticed that the lawsuit Gator was facing was launched June, 2002. Does anybody know whatever happened to it?
Did they settle? Was it dismissed? What of it!
An online Starcraft RPG? Free, only at
In soviet russia, all your us are belong to us!
Karma: Redundant
Online Starcraft RPG? At
Dietary fiber is like asynchronous IO-- Non-blocking!
Gator, like ALL advertising agencies (which in effect is what Gator is), couldn't care less whether their ads work or not.
What they DO care about is whether their target market THINKS the ads work. And their target market is NOT consumers; it is those companies that BUY advertising.
So the people we have to convince that such ad techniques suck are not consumers or ad agencies, but rather, the retailers who are buying these adspaces. Unfortunately, so long as retailers' marketing departments are justifying their own existence by showering their bosses with glitz, that'll be damned difficult, no matter how often we complain that their crappy invasive ads made us buy a competitor's product.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
And are you sure Gator is only *storing* your passwords for you?? Are you sure that Gator is secure against malware that may know how to access passwords stored by Gator?
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Spyware causes nothing but problems for every single person I've ever encountered with it on their computer. Everything from using 90%+ of the CPU and slowing their computer to a crawl (sometimes with dozens of different spybots installed without the user having any clue about them) to losing sound in certain applications. The last three times my mother has called me frantically saying her computer is broke because she has no sound was Gator. Uninstalling it mysteriously fixed it, every single time. Spyware makers can go to hell along with the pedophiles and spammers.