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Mars Express launch today

mikerich writes "The European Space Agency and the Russian Space Agency will launch the Mars Express spaceprobe today using a Soyuz-Fregat out of Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakhstan. Launch is scheduled for 17.45 UT (18.45 BST), so far all preparations have gone smoothly and the forecast is excellent. The launch will be streamed over the Web by ESA. Mars Express consists of two components, a large Martian orbiter which will be searching for sub-surface water and studying the Martian atmosphere. Its seven science packages have been built by teams from Europe, Russia, the United States, Japan, and China. Amongst the science packages is a radar for studying geological structures. Mars Express will map most of the planet in high-resolution colour stereoscopic 3D and perform a high-resolution mineralogical survey of the planet. Mars Express is also carrying the tiny Beagle 2 lander designed by a team led by Professor Colin Pillinger of the Open University. Beagle 2 is Britain's first planetary space probe and designed specifically to look for life using the most advanced techniques currently available. For those in the UK, the story of Beagle 2 is being told on BBC 2 on Monday 2nd June at 23:20." Dan B. writes "The BBC is running an article on the European 'Mars Express', Europe's first interplanetary rocket. This is the first of three probes heading to the Red Planet this Summer, as it nears it's closest point from the Earth in thousands of years."

183 comments

  1. Mars... by SpanishInquisition · · Score: 4, Funny

    That's so 1976...

    --
    Je t'aime Stéphanie
    1. Re:Mars... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah he, I can see you are of the American sir! Our backwards goegraphies of Russian and Europe are just now catching over to the majesty that was 1960's USA!!!

      Soon we will have ARPANET!

    2. Re:Mars... by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 3, Funny

      no, no

      it's at 17:45

      --
      That was classic intercourse!
    3. Re:Mars... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice one!

  2. Beagle, ESA and .uk by meringuoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wish the Beagle 2 in particular the very best of luck. Britain has never really pulled its weight in ESA, leaving France, Germany and Italy to pay for most things; a successful Mars lander bearing the Union flag could well change all that. Mars Express as a whole was done on a small budget, and Beagle was hacked together from the money that could be found down the back of the national sofa; if they succeed, imagine what could be achieved with some _real_ money...

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    1. Re:Beagle, ESA and .uk by Jez · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Colin Pillinger was one of the originators of the "faster, cheaper, better" way of developing space probes. He had to be, because there's just no way that ESA could follow the NASA model of ever bigger, more expensive projects. I worked in his lab, back when Beagle2 and Cassini were just starting to be talked about. 2003 seemed so far off. It's amazing that it's actually here, and built, and ready to go.

    2. Re:Beagle, ESA and .uk by corleth · · Score: 1

      Hi Jez - True, Beagle 2 is kind've "Better, Faster, Cheaper", but that's more because it's a U.K. mission. Looking at Mars Express, Venus Express and Bepi-Columbo, compared with other planetary missions at present, and I'd say that ESA are going in for bigger missions than just about anyone else at present. Fingers crossed for tonight. -Karl

    3. Re:Beagle, ESA and .uk by 73939133 · · Score: 1

      British science is impressive in how much it gets done with very little money. Most British scientists working on big budget projects have probably already moved to the US or other countries, and the people who are left are experts at making a lot out of very little.

      But just because British scientists are very frugal doesn't mean that a little bit of additional money will turn into a huge scientific return. A frugal scientist with twice as much funding may not be any more productive than a frugal scientist with his current budget.

      Rather than worrying about project funding, maybe it would be prudent first to make UK scientific salaries more attractive to get more scientists to come to the UK and work there.

    4. Re:Beagle, ESA and .uk by aallan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A frugal scientist with twice as much funding may not be any more productive than a frugal scientist with his current budget.

      Being a frugal British scientist working on a a tight budget I can tell you that while this may be true in some cases, just taking the stress of being so close to the wire away could mean that some people can get more science done. Heck I just blew the last three weeks writing grant proposals, very little science (or anything else, including sleep) got done during that time. For this I got a PhD?

      Al.
      --
      The Daily ACK - Eclectic posts by yet another hacker
    5. Re:Beagle, ESA and .uk by corleth · · Score: 2, Interesting
      As someone based in the UK but having worked in the US from time to time, I have to say that my US colleagues, at least in planetary science, spend more time writing research proposals than we do. Their proposals are simply much longer and more in-depth than UK ones; more akin to EC Framework projects. That being said, their proposals more likely to get funded, and funded well.

      Agreed about the tight budget thing though. It would be nice, just for once, to have a budget that allowed me to just buy, for example, extra memory for my computer as and when I needed it.

    6. Re:Beagle, ESA and .uk by j-b0y · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Actually, they're aimed at being much cheaper, Rosetta, Mars Express and Venus Express use/will use the same platform and control system, Rosetta and Mars Express share the same Flight Control Team and support staff.

      This may not sound like a big deal, but it can really cut down on the cost

      --
      Please remain calm, there is no reason to pani... wait, where are you all going?
    7. Re:Beagle, ESA and .uk by Tackhead · · Score: 1
      > Rosetta, Mars Express and Venus Express use/will use the same platform and control system, Rosetta and Mars Express share the same Flight Control Team and support staff.
      >
      >This may not sound like a big deal, but it can really cut down on the cost

      Wonder if NASA ever heard of "economies of scale".

      *sigh*

    8. Re:Beagle, ESA and .uk by meringuoid · · Score: 3, Informative
      Wonder if NASA ever heard of "economies of scale".

      Actually, yes, they did. The basic Mariner design was modified and reused for many of NASA's planetary missions; ESA's reuse of the Express design for Mars and Venus is certainly nothing new.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    9. Re:Beagle, ESA and .uk by Thing+1 · · Score: 1
      Rosetta, Mars Express and Venus Express [...]

      Wait, where's Planet Express? Damn I love Futurama...

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  3. If anything goes wrong... by jabbadabbadoo · · Score: 4, Funny
    ...just call SOS Beagles

    Let's hope the ESA engineers haven't been barkin' up the wrong tree.

  4. The search by Timesprout · · Score: 5, Funny

    Beagle 2 is Britain's first planetary space probe and designed specifically to look for life using the most advanced techniques currently available.

    In the best British tradition the probe will lay out a tea set and some cucumber sandwiches to attract alien lifeforms.

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
    1. Re:The search by AndrewHowe · · Score: 5, Funny

      Let's hope the aliens are not cucumber-like.

    2. Re:The search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blimey mate, you've been watching too many bad Hollywood movies!

      The *true* British way is to get incredibly drunk and start fights with any aliens out on a Friday night.

    3. Re:The search by mark2003 · · Score: 3, Funny

      In the best British tradition the probe will lay out a tea set and some cucumber sandwiches to attract alien lifeforms.

      Actually in the best British tradition, the probe will be wearing an England/Millwall/Arsenal shirt, will be p*ssed out of it's mind and will start broadcasting threatening messages to any lifeform it detects for "looking at it funny".

      We are not going to Mars just to find life but to kick the living daylights out of it...

    4. Re:The search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and play Blur at it!

    5. Re:The search by mark2003 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Would be more appropriate for it to be chanting either:

      Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough, or

      Engerlund, engerlund...

    6. Re:The search by 6hill · · Score: 1
      In the best British tradition the probe will lay out a tea set and some cucumber sandwiches to attract alien lifeforms.

      And if said aliens turn out to be hostile, all those cricket bats and football hooligans can finally come in handy.

    7. Re:The search by sane? · · Score: 2, Funny
      Well...
      1. The colour test pattern of the Beagle 2 has been created by the artist Damien Hurst.
      2. Damien was one member of the joke band 'Fat Les', famous for their song 'Vindaloo'
      3. Said song was famous for doing very well on the terraces at a previous excusion of the England football team into foreign parts.
      So, not too far off the mark.

      Now all we need is a Mars excusion robot shaped like a ball, with appropriately shaped black solar cells positioned over its surface and, BINGO! - Mars football...

    8. Re:The search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and say......

      inflatable balloons that it lands and bounces on?

    9. Re:The search by mentalist23 · · Score: 1
      Ah, but I notice Colin Pillinger got his PhD in Wales.

      Presumably he's interested in looking for coal on Mars, but watch out for vacuum leeks...

      --
      Unix does not prevent you from doing stupid things; that would also prevent you from doing clever things.
    10. Re:The search by Dan-DAFC · · Score: 1

      And if said aliens turn out to be hostile, all those cricket bats and football hooligans can finally come in handy.

      No, we actually use baseball bats, they're more suitable. Nobody in Britain plays baseball but every sports shop has a good selection of baseball bats despite that.

      --
      Suck figs.
    11. Re:The search by redbaron7 · · Score: 1

      ...and NASA's Mars Rovers will spend the first week trying to find each other. Once they have found each other, the rest of the mission will be characterised my lots of exclamations of "Gee Honey, Isn't it just quaint!"
      RB

    12. Re:The search by IrregularApocalypse · · Score: 1

      rubbish, us british are all too apathetic to care about anythi..oh i cant be bothere

    13. Re:The search by Epsillon · · Score: 3, Funny

      In the best British tradition the probe will lay out a tea set and some cucumber sandwiches to attract alien lifeforms.

      No, with the thin Martian atmosphere the water would boil at too low a temperature, so you can't make a decent cup of tea on Mars. Frightfully important to make a good first impression on the blighters, so we sent it up with some of our real ale instead. Wouldn't want them to get ticked off for sending awful tasting stuff - like your beer - wot! :o)

      --
      Resistance is futile. Reactance buggers it up.
    14. Re:The search by Le+Marteau · · Score: 1

      In the equally fine British engineering tradition, it will also leave an oil stain on the launch pad.

      --
      Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
    15. Re:The search by fredrik70 · · Score: 1

      Just attach Jordan to the outer hull, that should give it a soft landing ;-)

      --
      if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
    16. Re:The search by onomatomania · · Score: 1



      Care to look at my etchings?

      Darjeeling, ... or what?

      </Izzard>

  5. We are getting so much closer now... by WwWonka · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...to hearing Tom Brokaw proudly state that "Nasa has just sent a probe to Uranus!"

    1. Re:We are getting so much closer now... by KewlPC · · Score: 1

      "Goddammit, you guys! For the last time, there is no probe up my ass, and I am not under alien control!"

      Any guesses? :)

    2. Re:We are getting so much closer now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't get it. What is so funny about the name uranus?

      No flames. I'm just pointing out that in England we don't pronounce the 'a' with a high note, instead we pronounce it with a low 'a'. This makes this kind of joke seem a bit simple after we alter our pronounciation of the word to understand the joke.
      It has the same amount of humour as: 'Why did the chicken cross the road? -- To get run over!' (silence..........).

      In order to stop the flames (and to give this post a point). Can anyone tell us what pronounciation is the correct one, or are they both correct? Did us English alter the pronounciation to get rid of the 'rudeness' or did the Americans do the same to add the humour?

    3. Re:We are getting so much closer now... by AndrewHowe · · Score: 1

      Also we put the accent on the first syllable, not the second.

    4. Re:We are getting so much closer now... by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 1

      Shut up, Cartman!

      --
      Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
    5. Re:We are getting so much closer now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      despite the pronunciation, is it really that funny? I guess butt and fart jokes were hilarious when I was about 5, but not anymore.

    6. Re:We are getting so much closer now... by reverseengineer · · Score: 1
      The OED happens to list both pronunciations, with no indication of a preference, so I believe both are considered correct. Going a bit deeper into etymology, the ancient Greek form (for the god and word for sky, not the planet, which of course wouldn't be discovered for about 2 millennia) is Ouranos, pronounced our-ah-NOSS, and the Latin form is Vranvs, pron. oor-AH-nuss. Notice that the modern pronunciations do not exactly correspond to either of these, in terms of both stresses and vowel sounds. Thus, I think you should just go ahead and use whatever sounds natural. Personally, I've always thought "Georgium Sidus" was a cooler name anyway.

      I myself (an American) have been known to use both, but I tend toward the pron. with the long "a" stressed in the middle; in other words, the one that sounds like "your anus."

      This is what leads me to use the other pronunciation on occasion, actually, as if I gauge that my audience would erupt into giggles, I usually go with the chiefly British variant.

      --
      "FDA staff reviewers expressed concern about the number of patients who were left out of the study because they died."
  6. watch the launch, live by dj_paulgibbs · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not sure if this is a good idea in regards to future slashdotting, but there is going to be a webcam showing the proceedings.

    1. Re:watch the launch, live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      doesn't the article already state this?

    2. Re:watch the launch, live by dj_paulgibbs · · Score: 2, Funny

      bugger. Mod me down :(

    3. Re:watch the launch, live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      let's try not to cause yet another space disaster. Who knows what domino effect slashdotting this server will have on real launch systems.

      I'm only half kidding.

  7. Obligatory Futurama joke by Mika_Lindman · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...to hearing Tom Brokaw proudly state that "Nasa has just sent a probe to Uranus!"

    Prior to this, the name Uranus will be changed to Urectum.

  8. Damn it.... by botzi · · Score: 4, Funny

    I was going to watch the launching from the ESA site....
    Now with the link to the streaming page published on /. I may simply forgot about it:-/

    --
    1. No sig. 2. ???? 3. Profit!!!
  9. Two space probes enter a bar... by Trurl's+Machine · · Score: 0, Troll

    One of the recent Mars probes was lost due to a simple math error in metric/Anglosaxon unit conversion. That was NASA's blunder. I wonder what sort of blunders will result from this British/ESA/Russian/Japanese/American/Whatever cooperation...

    1. Re:Two space probes enter a bar... by Timesprout · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You seem to overlook the fact that a lot of very intelligent people who are well capable of learning from their own and the mistakes of others work on these projects. Its think it is far too cynical to assume there will be blunders just because there was a previous mixup. the ESA has a long history of successful collaboration on projects so why should this one be any different. I certainly hope this mission is successful and we get more useful data on Mars

      --
      Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
      What truth?
      There is no dupe
    2. Re:Two space probes enter a bar... by Trurl's+Machine · · Score: 1, Interesting

      You seem to overlook the fact that all those intelligent people are governed by international bureaucrats :-). Yes, I am a bit cynical about vast and incredibly inefficient agencies like NASA or ESA, but - contrary to you? - I see their history as a history of waste, corruption and bad management, with some occasional sucess stories. It could be the case of "is the glass half-full or rather half-empty", but I wouldn't say that SA has a long history of successful collaboration. I would rather say something quite contrary.

      First of all, ESA's history is relatively short. The whole 1960's in Europe is a period of international conflict about European space research. First there was the ESRO (E. Space Research Organization), that was at various stages boycotted by various European states, among them Britain and Italy. Europe managed to develop launcher rockets Europe-1 and Europe-2, that were nothing but technical misunderstanting from the day one, but the old continent could not scrape anything better

      Then in the early 1970's ESA was formed from the smoking pile of ashes that was now the remnants of the ESRO. ESA devoted most of its efforts to the creation of a new launcher - Ariane. This is also not exactly what I would call a success story. Every fourth launch of the latest revision of Ariane results in a pictoresque KA-BOOOOOM! And that is after almost 30 years of development!

      So yes - I am a cynical about that all, but I think I have damn good reasons for it.

    3. Re:Two space probes enter a bar... by mentalist23 · · Score: 1

      Probably LESS of these errors: for one, European scientists are much more comfortable with multilingual / multicultural projects, and for two, they're more diligent about looking for them because it's almost expected to find some, as you say.

      --
      Unix does not prevent you from doing stupid things; that would also prevent you from doing clever things.
    4. Re:Two space probes enter a bar... by j-b0y · · Score: 2, Informative
      I don't think you've got good reasons at all. Yes, ESA is an international organisation, but it isn't the barrel o' pork that NASA is, and it is by comparison, reasonably stream-lined organisation. Maybe not as efficient as a private company, but since there is no data on the efficiency of private compnaies organising a space program, we may never know.

      The use of the U.K. Blue Streak launcher by the European Launcher Development Organisation (ELDO) was probably a mistake, but as the basis for developing launcher tech it wasn't a bad start; remember Europe didn't have the experience the US had through the Gemini program and effectively was starting from scratch, since the native expertise was whisked off to the US after WWII to work of the US space program.

      I think you'll find that Ariane 4 was actually one of the most successful launchers around.

      Had the Cluster project not chosen take to get a free ride on an unqualified launcher, no one would have given a rat's ass about Ariane 501. Unfortunately Arianespace started to believe their own PR...

      ESA have always had a small fraction of the budget available to NASA; on that basis they've rather well really.

      --
      Please remain calm, there is no reason to pani... wait, where are you all going?
    5. Re:Two space probes enter a bar... by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      Maybe not as efficient as a private company, but since there is no data on the efficiency of private compnaies organising a space program, we may never know.

      <P>
      Boeing's Sea Launch initiative ought to give us this information within a few years.
      </p>

  10. But is the Beagle Horny? by krystal_blade · · Score: 3, Funny

    This is the first of three probes heading to the Red Planet this Summer, as it nears it's closest point from the Earth in thousands of years

    People of Earth, hear us. We, the people of mars, grow tired of your repetetive probings!

    You must cease and desist with this probing, especially with one named after a dog. (We've watched what your dogs do on your planet, and have no wish to undergo the same "leg" treatment.)

    And you must stop this photography of our martian mounds. This blatant harrassment will only lead to a hostile relationship between us.

    Perhaps with some beating, and bondage thrown in...

    krystal_blade... No martians were harmed during the posting of this comment....

    --
    It will be easy to motivate our fellow man; there is hardly anything people treasure more than not being annihilated.
    1. Re:But is the Beagle Horny? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lame ...

    2. Re:But is the Beagle Horny? by Becquerel · · Score: 2, Informative
      especially with one named after a dog

      FYI the Beagle2 probe is named after the HMS Beagle that carried Darwin on his world travels, whence he galvanised his ideas on the origin of species

      The HMS Beagle though, was named after a dog

      --
      My spelling isn't bad, I'm evolving the language
  11. Troll Alert - Launch at 19:15 CEST by StefMeister · · Score: 1
    The web site mentions the following
    On 2 June at 19:45 Central European Summer Time (CEST), 17.45 UT ESA's Mars Express will be launched by a Soyuz launcher from Baikonur, Kazakhstan.

    It is now 13:05 CEST.
    So what the hell are you talking about?
    --
    "Son, in a sporting event, it's not whether you win or lose, it's how drunk you get" - Homer J. Simpson
    1. Re:Troll Alert - Launch at 19:15 CEST by Bill_Mische · · Score: 1

      Definition: Summer Time
      A tremendous wheeze where everyone pretends to themselves their NOT getting up an hour earlier every morning in summer by pretending its an hour ealier than it really is.

      Definition: Central European Summer TIme (CEST)
      Central European Version of same. aka GMT +2

      I'm not a morning person

      --
      Boring Old Fart (40, married, 3 kids...er no...make that 49, married, 3 grown up kids...it's been a long time)
    2. Re:Troll Alert - Launch at 19:15 CEST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What has this got to do with trolls? There are no bridges here.

    3. Re:Troll Alert - Launch at 19:15 CEST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The launch completed successfully from Baikonur, Kazakhstan, today!!! The next stage is orbital insertion (I believe) and the next transmission is at 21:15 CEST.

  12. The Mars Express.... by PS-SCUD · · Score: 1

    One way tickets start at 2,000,000,000 Euros. Get them while they last.

    --


    "Much work is lost, for the lack of a little more." -Edward H. Harriman
    1. Re:The Mars Express.... by Niahak · · Score: 1

      Can we buy them for other people? I can think of several who deserve the 'honor' of being the first person to di- err, I mean, land on Mars.

  13. Most intense period of planetary exploration ever by corleth · · Score: 5, Informative
    Not only are Mars Express and Beagle 2 going to be joined by two NASA landers, but also the Japanese orbiter, Nozomi. These five missions will complement NASA's Mars Global Surveyor, launched in 1997, and Mars Odyssey, launched in 2001, which are still returning excellent data of the surface of Mars from orbit. This marks not only the beginning of the most intensive period of study of Mars in the history of space exploration, but also the start of a planetary science renaissance.

    In addition to these missions, also keep an eye on the NASA/ESA Cassini-Huygens mission to Saturn and Titan, arriving later this year, as well as ESA's SMART-1 mission to the moon to be launched soon. Future plans include NASA's Mercury Messenger, and ESA's Venus Express and Bepi-Columbo.

  14. Re:This is... by Cackmobile · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Good but why do you say that.

    Flamebait i guess.

    --
    -- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
  15. Alternative to web broadcast by corleth · · Score: 5, Informative
    If you have access to Astra 2C satellite reception equipment, I suggest that you link directly in to the ESA television broadcast. The quality should be better and it might help relieve the slashdot effect. The details are as follows:

    • Satellite:
    • Astra 2C at 19 degrees East
      Reception frequency: 10832 MHz
      Polarisation: Horizontal
      Symbol rate: 22 Msymb/s
      FEC: 5/6
      Service ID: 61950
      Service name: ESA
      TXT: none
      Start of launch transmission: 19:15 CEST (17:15 GMT/UT)
    1. Re:Alternative to web broadcast by evilandi · · Score: 1

      It's not there. Are these details wrong?

      --
      Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
    2. Re:Alternative to web broadcast by pe1chl · · Score: 1

      No, it is ok.
      Going up now.

  16. In 2003, War was beginning... by krystal_blade · · Score: 2, Funny

    Martian Overlord: What happen?
    Engineering Drone: Somebody set up us three probes.
    Signals Drone: We get signal.
    Martian Overlord: What!
    Signals Drone: Main screen turn on.
    Martian Overlord: It's You !!
    Beagle: How are you gentlemen !!
    Beagle: All your base are belong to us probes.
    Beagle: You are on the way to destruction.
    Martian Overlord: What you say !!
    Beagle: You have no chance to survive make your time.
    Beagle: HA HA HA HA .... Bzzzt Chirp!
    Martian Overlord: Take off every 'zig'!!
    Martian Overlord: You know what you doing.
    Martian Overlord: Move 'zig'.
    Martian Overlord: For great justice.

    krystal_blade

    --
    It will be easy to motivate our fellow man; there is hardly anything people treasure more than not being annihilated.
    1. Re:In 2003, War was beginning... by Tackhead · · Score: 2, Funny
      > Beagle: All your base are belong to us probes.
      > Beagle: You are on the way to destruction.

      As opposed to:

      Generic NASA Mars Lander: We are on the way to destruction.

    2. Re:In 2003, War was beginning... by cryms0n · · Score: 1

      Oh man you made me perforate my LCD screen with nacho bits.

      Too funny ...

  17. Good luck Europe! by BTWR · · Score: 2

    I'm serious here.

    I know many of you hate us, and have even wished us ill-will recently, but rest assured, I don't hate you, and I wish you the best of luck in this endeavor.

    New York, out...

    1. Re:Good luck Europe! by johannesg · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Many of us _hate_ you? Whatever gave you that idea?

      It is certainly true many Europeans are not major fans of your current leadership, but frankly most of us hope you will eventually regain your senses and vote someone more sensible into the white house.

      I'm disturbed that you felt you needed to post this. I didn't realize American perception of Europe can be so wrong. What do you think of when someone mentions Europe?

    2. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      We don't hate Americans, just the ppl who voted that )*()@(#$(@#*$ moron into the White House

    3. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      man, I feel so sorry for you.

      like having a cawboy-president was not bad enough, you also seem to lost all signs intelligence after watching FoxNews too much too often.

      we dont hate you, so stop hating us.

    4. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hej dude,

      I told you too much of McDoanlds junkfood would make you lose touch with reality!!

    5. Re:Good luck Europe! by BTWR · · Score: 1

      You say America needs to "regain its senses" and vote for a new president. To answer your question... this is why Americans feel that Europeans hate us. By stating, even metaphorically, that by Americans electing officials that you disagree with means that we have some sort of mental disability (and for the record, I voted for Gore) explains why we Americans often feel that you hate us.

      France almost elected Le Pen (a "radical"), and Austria elected a radical too, but that doesn't mean that the country is to be hated.

    6. Re:Good luck Europe! by BTWR · · Score: 1

      and you read Le Monde and watch BBC too much...

    7. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll echo that!

      All the Americans I know are great people. I don't know GWB or his puppeteers, but they seem to come from a different mould.

      And in Europe we don't have a great history of picking leaders either. Chirac, Scroeder, and Berlusconi would probably be in prison if they didn't have immunity. And we are beginning to recognize Blair as one of the most sincere liars ever to dominate the camera.

    8. Re:Good luck Europe! by the+gnat · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Many of us _hate_ you? Whatever gave you that idea?

      Gee, I don't know. . . maybe all of the snotty Europeans posting about how we deserved the WTC attack? Or the ones who feel the need to remind us about American imperialism in every other thread (conveniently ignoring the far worse effects of European imperialism)? Or the ones who like to tell me I'm living in a police state? The level of contempt I see is appalling. I've known and worked with a number of Europeans, and even though they'd come to the US to do research they still hated the place and never missed a chance to remind me, even as they took advantage of our low gas prices and omnipresent pop culture.

      It is certainly true many Europeans are not major fans of your current leadership, but frankly most of us hope you will eventually regain your senses and vote someone more sensible into the white house.

      Unlike, say, the Germans, who just re-elected Schroeder.

      I didn't realize American perception of Europe can be so wrong. What do you think of when someone mentions Europe?

      Pretty much all we hear out of Europe nowadays is how much we suck, so this shouldn't be such a shock to you. Perhaps if you spent less time patronizing us you'd make a better impression. And from my experience, among educated people the European perception of America is generally far worse.

      Having actually been to Europe a couple of times, and having had friends from Europe, I have no particular antipathy towards Europeans. There are parts of it I'd quite like to live in. I do suspect, however, that in certain countries (France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, etc.) I would be constantly asked if I'd moved to get away from my fellow Americans, and treated like the village idiot.

      If I were to move, I'd live in one of the former Russian colonies (Czech Republic would be nice), where they haven't been free long enough to become arrogant, and where American pop culture hasn't penetrated very far.

    9. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can use your own arguments to state that Americans _hate_ plaestinian. Didn't Bush Jr _demanded_ that the Palestinian people would vote for someone else that Arafat???

      So, how are you going to be unbiased in the pease process if you hate palestinians and love israelis??

      BTW, how the f**k can someone _demand_ that people of another country vote or dont vote for someone??? is this democracy??

      Another issue: what if your definition of "almost" in the case of France ?? (has _any_ American president won the ellection as superior as Chirac did in France last time???)

    10. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, BCC shows the same shit that CNN broadcasts, and I cant read french.

    11. Re:Good luck Europe! by BTWR · · Score: 1

      I won't comment on the Palestinian part, since I can't really figure out why you brought that up. But since you asked, even though it seems the rest of the world doesn't understand the electoral process in the USA (and therefore simply says it's "stupid"), but in 1984, there 525 electoral votes for Reagan, 13 for Mondale, and since the electoral votes are the only ones that count, so Regan won 97.6% of the deciding votes.

    12. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "[...] but frankly most of us hope you will eventually regain your senses and vote someone more sensible into the white house."

      Well, shouldn't be so hard, after all, the only thing a candidate over there really needs, is the support from a minority of a minority. That's why it's called "democracy", I guess.

    13. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I were to move, I'd live in one of the former Russian colonies (Czech Republic would be nice), where they haven't been free long enough to become arrogant, and where American pop culture hasn't penetrated very far.

      Then I guess you never been to Czech Republic??
      And for f**ks sake, what is American pop culture??
      (or American culture for that matter).

    14. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Americans electing officials that you disagree with

      Ummm. Electing?

      And Le Pen is not a "radical"; he's a "fascist".

    15. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thing you _should_ comment about the "Palestinian part". The root of the problem is the Israel/Plastina conflict, not Saddam Hussein, Bin Ladin or anyone else.

      until you understand the cause of the conflict that started a half decade ago, you should shut up and dont comment on stuffs you dont understand (yeah, that goes for your president too)

    16. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is certainly true many Europeans are not major fans of your current leadership, but frankly most of us hope you will eventually regain your senses and vote someone more sensible into the white house.

      Whereas Americans are happy if the Europeans just don't elect another Hitler.

      (yeah yeah Godwin's Law, blah blah)

    17. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      only if people of Florida could learn to read...

      next time your kid doesn't do his homework, be sure to tell him that in future, this action might lead to WWIII!!!

    18. Re:Good luck Europe! by VanillaCoke420 · · Score: 1

      I'm a european (although not sure whether I'm from new or old Europe), and I can say as much that I do not hate americans. Some people do, but I think that's stupid. I can say that I strongly dislike your current leader, but that doesn't mean I hate you all or your entire nation. I believe that most americans do not hate Europe, either. There are differences between EU and USA, but we don't have to let those differences cause unnecessary conflicts, fuelled by misconceptions and propaganda and catchy slogans. Let me in return wish YOU good luck with your Mars rovers, btw! I hear Japan is on their way as well. Going to be exciting.

    19. Re:Good luck Europe! by johannesg · · Score: 2
      Sorry, but criticism does not equal hatred. I offer criticism, but not hatred. For that matter, so did the French government when it rejected the war in Iraq: no hatred, just criticism.

      As for France and Austria, they were extremely foolish (in the case of France) and irresponsible (in the case of Austria) to elect Le Pen (almost) and Haider. And that too is criticism, rather than hatred.

    20. Re:Good luck Europe! by mark2003 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      maybe all of the snotty Europeans posting about how we deserved the WTC attack? Or the ones who feel the need to remind us about American imperialism in every other thread (conveniently ignoring the far worse effects of European imperialism)?

      I'd challenge you to find any normal European who said that the US deserved 11/9. I'd also challenge you to find a European who would justify historic European imperialism and who would support it now. The fact that most Brits were not behind their own government in it's recent actions supporting imperialism would indicate the opposite.

      Unlike, say, the Germans, who just re-elected Schroeder.

      A leader who stands up for the views of his people and has (as far as I know) not ever invaded another country based on fabricated evidence.

      Perhaps if you spent less time patronizing us you'd make a better impression.

      Of course no American is guilty of that - especially not that arrogant piece of sh*t Rumsfeld who began the attempt at diplomacy by insulting most European leaders?

    21. Re:Good luck Europe! by BTWR · · Score: 1

      I happen to have a degree in Middle Eastern Studies from an Ivy League university, so I AM able to comment on "stuffs you dont understand."

    22. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What we need to get away from is us throwing crap at each other while hiding away our own crap. All countries and empires have dark chapters in their history, and to admit that is a big step forward, I believe. Because if we do that, we can realize that no country is perfect, and few countries are doing what they are doing for the good of mankind, but rather for the good of the current leadership.

      Those who say that you deserved the 9/11 attacks are way over the line, that we can agree on. But can we agree that the hatred towards USA came from somewhere, like the constant intervening in other nations affairs?

      Europe has a chaotic and imperialistic history as well, with the numerous colonies in Africa, America and Asia, and the mistreating of the people there. Gradually these colonies were handed back. Now I wonder how many hates the former european empire nations? I can't remember when a foreign terrorist or a foreign power attacked my nation (it wasn't the greatest of the powers in Europe btw). Maybe if we went around the world practicing the dubious methods it is to alternatively overthrow and support tyrants and other leaders for our own benefit, they would eventually attack us in return. It would be a sad tragedy, but hardly surprising.

    23. Re:Good luck Europe! by BTWR · · Score: 1

      Thank you for a very intelligent and mature response. Disagreeing with a leader (whether your own or foreign) does not mean that you have to hate that country, or resort to immature name calling like "moron," "retard," etc. (which makes THE INSULTER seem unintelligent). The only thing I don't 100% agree with you (and again, disagreeing is all good) is that you think only "some" Europeans hate America. That may in fact be the case - it may truly be. However, until I meet a majority of Europeans that don't openly say they hate us, we're imperialistic, we deserved 9/11, we're shallow and ignorant, then I will have to think that the majority of Europeans truly do hate us. Consider it my own personal straw poll.

      However, I at least now know that at least one slashdotter doesn't hate me or my country. Thank you.

    24. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, why don't you then?

    25. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An oxymoron... Or maybe some new bacterial weapon distributed via soft drinks...

    26. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After reading the thread below I am amazed how many people are ready to state their views as those of entire nations or continents...

      I cannot/dare not say that "Americans are stupid" or "Europeans are arrogant".
      Yes you can find insane people in just about every nation. To let cultural shock overwhelm common sense is a serious mistake.

      To the thread: I think space exploration could greatly benefit if the money they used for it was spent as efficiently as it was on the Martian Express.
      Not every space project have to cost billions...

    27. Re:Good luck Europe! by BTWR · · Score: 1

      Stop being an AC and then we can have an intelligent discussion. Deal?

    28. Re:Good luck Europe! by mark2003 · · Score: 1

      Saying that your country is behaving in an Imperialistic manner does not mean people hate you - it is simply a statement of opinion that many people believe describes the US's current foreign policy. The honest truth is that virtually all Europeans are afraid of what the US will do next - we all thought that post cold war we had moved into a world where nations solved their problems through diplomacy and co-oporation, we did not expect the US to start threatening other countries to protect it's own interests. What we are all wondering is who will be next and when will it be our turn if our interests do not coincide with the US's.

    29. Re:Good luck Europe! by golgotha007 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If I were to move, I'd live in one of the former Russian colonies (Czech Republic would be nice), where they haven't been free long enough to become arrogant, and where American pop culture hasn't penetrated very far.

      well i can tell you that you're not going to find what you're looking for. i moved to Saint Petersburg, Russia 3 months ago (born and raised in Calfornia). when i'm in a busy public place, i don't dare utter a single english word in fear that i will be jumped immediately.

      hell, even the MacDonalds down the street was broken into and vandalized in protest against the Americans...

      George W was here 2 days ago. they limited where he could go outside because of fear of sniper fire...

    30. Re:Good luck Europe! by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 1

      You're right, you know. Le Pen is fascist prick - and the biggest fucking gift to good old corrupt Chirac that he could have been given. What a disaster.

      --
      That was classic intercourse!
    31. Re:Good luck Europe! by Becquerel · · Score: 1
      (conveniently ignoring the far worse effects of European imperialism)?

      As the only Brit working a PhD group of very wide ranging ethnisity, i have on a number of occasions had the oportunity to argue the pros and cons of european (especially British) imperialism.

      Overall the general conclusion that is generally reached is that although we did some pretty naughty things (slavery, cultural clensing, resourse stealing, etc). The beneficial effects conveyed to the countries, in the long run, allowed the countries to develop at an otherwise unimaginable rate. Laying the infrastructure of transport, democracy and law allowing countries, such as India, Australia, South Africa and dare i say America, to become world powers. Much as the Romans did in europe some 1500 years earlier.

      On the whole my collegues (from India, Mauritias, Sudan, Malaysia, New Zealand, etc) have to agree that thier countries would still be in the dark ages if it hadn't been for european colonalism.

      --
      My spelling isn't bad, I'm evolving the language
    32. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gee, I don't know. . . maybe all of the snotty Europeans posting about how we deserved the WTC attack?

      What's wrong with stating the obvious? Bah.

    33. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It's pretty fair to say you don't actually know what you're talking about, isn't it? Otherwise you'd actually deal with the arguments, rather than attack those who question you.

      How, er, very like the aspect of current American government behaviour that rankles most opponents the most.

    34. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      yeah, BS in Middle East propaganda (BS = Bull Shlt).

      Just to end the disccusion, I will qoute one of your earlier postings to ./


      Re:Kilogram? (Score:2)
      by BTWR (540147) on Tuesday May 27, @08:47AM (#6046716)
      (Last Journal: Monday March 10, @06:26AM)
      Last time I heard, it was the EUROPEAN half of the Cassini/Huygens spacecraft that was malfunctioning, though maybe that's been fixed...


      Oh... did you said anything about an "intelligent discussion", dude ???

    35. Re:Good luck Europe! by BTWR · · Score: 1

      Again, I don't understand WHAT posts you reply to. I make a "good luck europe" parent post, you reply with a demand that I comment on the Palestinian conflict. I ask why you are asking me this, and you then accuse me of not knowing anything (again, WHY?). I reply that I have a degree in an Ivy League university (fyi - Ivy League is a group of 8 of the best american universities - Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Cornell, Brown, Penn and Dartmouth), and you reply that I must not know anything.

      If I am truly unaware of what is going on, it is simply why you are asking these questions here!

    36. Re:Good luck Europe! by BTWR · · Score: 1

      If you posted the CONTEXT of that Cassini probe, you would see that I was simply responding to another post that said that American (re: NASA) engineering is inferior to all others.

      You should get a tackle box, son - cuz you're reeeeeeally fishing here...

    37. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why?
      Because you dont have an answer on the Palestina part. Because you think you are an angel and the evil world hates you. Because you thing that 11/9 was when it all started (not saying that I dont think 11/9 was a tragic day for the human race).

      Ivy League universities? I know a lot of intelligent _and_ a lot of clueless people from those places. Your actions will demonstrate your intelligent, not your diploma.

      Beside, so you have a university degree (like most of us here do, and many of us have gotten higher degrees from more respected univiersities than those). Do you really have to write about it (if you wonder, I am a PhD, what is your degree BTW??)

    38. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      YEAH RIGHT!

    39. Re:Good luck Europe! by BTWR · · Score: 1

      If you like looking at my old posts so much, you can see that I do not give the time of day to ACs who try to get me into a flame war.

      So this is my last reply to you. (Unless you feel like posting a non-AC reply or you want to give me an email and we can have an off-site discussion).

    40. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From this flame wars with the AC's. I (with a degree from a lowely college - eh. ASU). Have only one thing to add, I find you have low selfesteem and that you are just posting this crap about you being in an Ivy league college just to boost your own self esteem.

      Dude, most of your posts didn't make any sense. And from the political posts of yours I gathered you were just giving enough bait for the flaimbaiting AC's to catch on your hook. I don't think that's necessary.

      Furthermore, an educated person should never give into arguments like what you have shown here. This shows your lack of constituion and character, if a school cannot harness your character, who can?

      You may have gotten a degree at one of the top schools in the US, but unfortunality, your people skills, you grasp of world events, and morality is lacking. This is sad.

    41. Re:Good luck Europe! by uradu · · Score: 1

      > And for f**ks sake, what is American pop culture??

      A mix of German fairy tales, carbonated beverages, and African-influenced music.

    42. Re:Good luck Europe! by AndrewHowe · · Score: 1

      >German fairy tales

      And Danish, and Swedish...

    43. Re:Good luck Europe! by UncleFluffy · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      However, until I meet a majority of Europeans that don't openly say they hate us, we're imperialistic, we deserved 9/11, we're shallow and ignorant, then I will have to think that the majority of Europeans truly do hate us. Consider it my own personal straw poll.

      I'll bite. (Brit living in the US).

      "they hate us"

      Nope, never met an individual American that I've hated. I have mixed feelings about America as a as a political entity, but (a) that's a long way from hate, and (b) also true for any country you could name, including the one I was born in.

      "we're imperialistic"

      Not in the same way as colonial Europe was, certainly, though there's a definite tendency to what used to be termed "gunboat diplomacy" when practiced by the British. However, there's also a tendency in the US to talk a lot about the evils of European colonialism whilst conveniently ignoring what happened over here post-1776. At least the European powers eventually gave most (if not all) of the land back to the people they took it from, rather than making sure that there were not enough of the original owners left to complain, and both slavery and apartheid were abandoned in Europe long before the US. Maybe the reason the "imperialist" tag gets thrown at the US nowadays is that it is so often thrown by the US at (historical) Europe in such a hypocritical fashion.

      we deserved 9/11

      Nope, innocent people never deserve to die. I can *understand* (to some extent) why it happened - but that is a long way from saying it was right. I suspect (and this is just opinion based on my experience in the US) that there are more Americans that will say that the UK deserved the hundreds of terrorists acts committed by the IRA than Europeans that will say that the US deserved 9/11.

      we're shallow and ignorant

      I've met hundreds of Americans who are neither shallow nor ignorant, and very few who are either. The reason that the US is perceived as shallow and ignorant - apart from the current President's unique linguistic style - is that its popular culture is so much more widely exported. Popular cultures everywhere tend to the lowest common denominator.

      So, in summary, (a) I don't feel that any of those statements apply to Americans (as individuals), but the picture is a little greyer (but only a little) when talking about the US as a political entity rather than a collection of people; and (b) I like the US well enough to choose to live here and have met many Americans I like and very few that I dislike. (Plus, your women just *love* English accents...)

      --

      What would Lemmy do?

    44. Re:Good luck Europe! by uradu · · Score: 1

      > And Danish, and Swedish...

      True enough, I was just alluding to Disney's blatant (and royalty-free) plagiarazing of the Grimm brothers. Whose stories, of course, were not of exclusively German origins.

    45. Re:Good luck Europe! by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      This whole argument never ceases to amaze me. We were in a state of war against Iraq. Sealed with a cease-fire agreement. Violated by Iraq multiple times during it's 12 year duration. I can't say they deserved it, but to say we unilaterally went and invaded a country simply because we felt like it is a farce.

      The blustering about Syria is a bit disturbing, but no worse than Bush's "Axis of Evil" stupidity. I'm not sure what went wrong between the Clinton and Bush PR regimes, but I think they should stop letting Bush write his own speeches.

      Why would we bomb Europe? There are at least three "declared" nuclear powers on the European continent. Picking a fight with Europe would prove fatal. You guys have nothing to fear from the U.S. but rhetoric, bad music, worse movies, and stupid politicians who act like schoolyard bullies, but can't stand it when they get called out on the fact that they're a bunch of pussies.

    46. Re:Good luck Europe! by whynot · · Score: 1

      Well, living in Germany I can tell you that there are people who shake their heads about current US foreign politics but that doesn't make us "hate" you.

      How could we hate the country that helped to remove Hitler? How could we hate the country that spent a lot of money rebuilding the German economy after the war? There has been a history of friendship between the US and Germany until less than 4 years ago and this will not change so fast.

      Please try to ignore the occassional strong german leftist trying to get into the press / some of the statements german press (like "Der Spiegel") are printing just to sell their newspaper. We should also try to ignore the same stuff on the US side - there has been a lot of europe bashing too.

      IMHO the current administration of the US and germany are an unfortunate combination - they don't get along very well and that's a real pitty. From my point of view both nations did not behave very nice in some points. Especially chancellor Schroeder's abuse of the war against Iraq for his campaign ("We will never help them under an circumstances") has been more than embarassing. Mr Rumsfelds comments about "old europe" were on a embarassing level too.

      But this really does not mean that the citizens of the countries should now hate each other. I have been to the US many times and always been happy about the friendly people. Also I coached some US citizens visiting Germany and they seemed to like it here too.

      (These are my feelings and perceptions, of course I can't speak for all german citizens)

    47. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have the roman empire, the mongolian empire, we have a lot of former colonial powers in Europe, Great Britain being the most powerful one. To the list of nations who have invaded, annexed, attacked or otherwise took control over other nations at one point in time, we can add: Japan, Russia, Spain, Portugal, France, Germany, Italy, Denmark, Sweden, Belgium, and many others. Most of these have stopped this practice though. Some are still doing it.

    48. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      la la la la I can't hear you la la la la

    49. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and Welsh...

    50. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you know why we don't like your foreign policies? Cause we're european. We're fashionable. And let me tell you: colonialism and imperialism is SO 18th century!

    51. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "BTW, how the f**k can someone _demand_ that people of another country vote or dont vote for someone??? is this democracy??"

      Like this: "If any of you Euros elect another dangerous megalomaniac bent on global conquest then we'll come over there and shoot a whole bunch of you. On the upside, we'll probably pay to rebuild the country for the people who we didn't have to shoot and some of our boys will probably also marry some of the local ladies and bring them back to the U.S. after the occupation."

      If recent events are any indication, however, we aren't as quick with the rebuilding as we are with the shooting so you may want to lock up the family valuables. Now I guess that technically I'm not demanding that you not vote for another Mussolini or Hitler; I'm just letting you know to expect us to show up at your doorstep looking for someone's rear end to kick if you do.

      Is this democracy? Well, I guess not. But that doesn't bother us here in the United States as much as some foreigners seem to think. We are, after all, a REPUBLIC not a democracy. Two wolves and a sheep voting for what to have for dinner is a democracy. Democratic elections can be one of many tools for preventing gov't infringement on personal liberty, but they cannot be counted on exclusively. And it is personal liberty, not popular opinion, that we American's are obsessive about. Our most intensive political debates are almost all about how to protect unpopular or helpless minorities. Don't confuse democracy with liberty.

      Oh, and by the way. If you guys really think we here in America have chosen as our elected representatives and public servants a dangerous megalomaniacal administration bent on global conquest then why don't you bring your armies over here and do something about it. It will be a great opportunity for us to show off our controversial "gun culture" that you more mature and sophisticated societies find so distasteful. If you aren't willing to put your rear end on the line and your personal safety at risk, then it calls into question how sure you are in your beliefs. If you aren't demanding that your politicians cut back your welfare state so you can afford build an army to protect the world from inevitable war of conquest by the Americans, then maybe its because you know deep down in your heart that all we really want is for you to Buy Our Stuff, sell us your stuff at a fair price, don't blow up our tourists when they go over there, don't abuse each other so badly that we can't eat dinner while watching the evening news, and otherwise leave us the crap alone.

    52. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not plagiarism if you acknowledge the origin of the material. So neither Walt Disney (the man, not the company) nor the Brothers Grimm were plagiarists, so far as I know.

    53. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm just trying to reconcile your use of the word "we" with the fact that you're a whiny little nerd living in your parents' basement.

    54. Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wow, what a perfect troll... you surely got some responses there

    55. Re:Good luck Europe! by mark2003 · · Score: 1

      Tough man - I can see you subscribe to the Bush view on politics of do what we want, when we want or we'll threaten you combined with the patronising arrogance that you so often claim is a European problem.

      Just to point out a couple of things - it was not "Europeans" as a whole that elected Hitler or Mussolini, most of us were on the opposing side, fighting him whilst Shrub's grandpa was busy making money with the Nazi party. If it had been all of Europe that was bent on world domination under one leader there wouldn't be a US today. The Royal Navy would have ruled the North Atlantic, the German and Britsh air forces would have ruled the skies, and the German and Russian tanks would have blitzkrieged their way through the mid-west in no time at all.

      It's sad that the world is changing so that we all have to start spending a fortune on arms rather than living together in peace.

      that all we really want is for you to Buy Our Stuff, sell us your stuff at a fair price, don't blow up our tourists when they go over there, don't abuse each other so badly that we can't eat dinner while watching the evening news, and otherwise leave us the crap alone.

      That would be fine if it wasn't for the fact that you want us to buy your stuff when your government flouts WTO rules by subsidising your industry and erects trade barriers and tariffs to prevent us selling stuff over there. And as for blowing up your tourists - which Europeans are you referring to? I don't know of any that aim for Americans. Maybe the IRA - sponsored by years by Americans? As for leaving you alone - well if the US wants to retreat into isolationism then it can, but it can't f*ck with other countries whilst claiming to want to be left alone - i.e. no attempting coups in South America, no aid for Isreal, no fighting communism in Asia, no invasions to secure oil supplies.

      I think more than anything you have shown yourself to a ignorant idiot repeating the kind of demagogue so beloved of Rush Limbaugh and his lunatic fringe.

  18. Re:Most intense period of planetary exploration ev by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 0, Troll

    Not content with screwing up our atmospehere with junk, mankind once again shows his inate ability to devistate the natural unblemished landscape of other worlds.

    Scientists should think about the consequences of their actions, and give as much thought to the cleanup operation as to the getting there. (Sounds a little like programmers and documentation ;))

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
  19. Re:Most intense period of planetary exploration ev by Eloquence · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, Cassini will enter Saturn's orbit on July 1, 2004.

  20. Real reason for Mars Express by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

    Actually, the reason why Mars Express is being launched was the fact the highly ambitious Mars 96 probe (which carried many of the same experiments that Mars Express carries) failed due to a rocket booster upper stage failure.

    This is why Mars Express is a much smaller spacecraft, small enough to rely on the well-proven launch rocket that carries the Soyuz spacecraft to orbit.

  21. Oh my, they've encrypted all important info by Alphix · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Quote: "using a Soyuz-Fregat out of Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakhstan"

    They've obviously encrypted the name of the equipment and launch location,
    could this be due to the tired old parole of "national security"?

  22. [yeah we hate you] Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...but only if you are a part of the "adminstration" that uses americans tax-money to play Chingiz Khan in the middle east.

    1. Re:[yeah we hate you] Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So can we hate you if you voted for Le Pen? How about we hate your families if they were part of the Axis countries during WW2?

    2. Re:[yeah we hate you] Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or those who used wapons of mass-destruction during a war??

      yes, WWII _does_ count!!

    3. Re:[yeah we hate you] Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great! We're Americans (and I was born here), but in WW2 my family was being slaughtered by Nazis and tatoo'ed with numbers on their arms. So... we weren't around for atomic bombs, AND we were being killed by the lovely Axis countries.

      Thanks for your support!

    4. Re:[yeah we hate you] Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for your support!
      no problems!

      So you should kill anyone else because someone else killed someone in your family?
      Does the tragic slaughting of jews during the WWII justify for you to do whatever you want to do to the rest of eternity???

      (And im nither Germnan or French)

      BTW, just a logical question: you were not around for the atomic bomb, but got slaughtered by Nazis at the same time?

    5. Re:[yeah we hate you] Re:Good luck Europe! by mark2003 · · Score: 1

      Ah, blaming people for the crimes of their ancestors - nice to see how we have moved on.

      I personally hate the Italians as they invaded my country in 300 BC. I also hate the Normans, the Angles, the Saxons and anyone else who oppressed the brave Celts. I would take it out on their descendants and hate them - if only I could work out who they were...

    6. Re:[yeah we hate you] Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      or those who used wapons of mass-destruction during a war??

      Like France did in WW1? How about the genocide France committed against the jews in WW2?

    7. Re:[yeah we hate you] Re:Good luck Europe! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you know that the Nazis were defeated before the atomic bomb was exploded? Quite lucky for Europe, too.

  23. Isn't it sad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is it, the only time everyone in this world gets along, is when we're doing something outside of our own planet? Maybe the colonize another planet will we achieve world peace.

    1. Re:Isn't it sad... by Vollernurd · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe, until they want independence. We'll end up levying taxes against them, they'll not like it, and before you know it "The Redccoats are coming!" :)

      --
      Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules.
  24. Gods Damn it.. get a grip by boogy+nightmare · · Score: 1

    I was not going to enter this pan global slanging match but i have decided to lay down my 2 cents worth (or euros or pence or whatever)

    The Europeans are as bad as the Americans except they dont get on the high horse about unlike the post that this is attached to....

    it is also unfair to compare schroeder to bush, the reasons why the europeans hate bush is he is a war mongering idiot that could not outwit a yoghurt, but for the same reason people hate blair becuase he is a sycophantic war mongering manipulative little tit who generally goes against the wishes of the people that voted him in.

    The idea that Euro's hate US is the stupid, almost as stupid as US hating Euro's, the only differnce is americans take it too heart too easily and euro's keep on going on and and on about.

    all sides, shut up sit down admit every population has its faults (im my case spellin) and either lighten up or go to a slightly less intellectual web site to spout your zenophobic bollocks.

    While off topic i would like to bring it back straight on line and say, yeeee! mars the more info the better

    S

    --
    Kingdom of Loathing (www.kingdomofloathing.com) Addicted is me
  25. Where's Ariane? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why didnt the ESA use their own Ariane rocket?

    1. Re:Where's Ariane? by corleth · · Score: 3, Informative

      Cost. The budget was extremely tight and Russia launch cheaper than ESA, even for ESA-run missions. It's a pretty strange state of affairs.

    2. Re:Where's Ariane? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      The Ariane rockets are usually carry at least two payloads. The special launch trajectory Mars Express needs would require it to be the only "passenger" aboard, and in that case the Soyuz option was cheaper.

    3. Re:Where's Ariane? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Why didnt the ESA use their own Ariane rocket?

      They used their last one to blast Saddam off to his Big-Boy-in-the-sky hideout.

    4. Re:Where's Ariane? by meringuoid · · Score: 1

      Ariane rockets are run by Arianespace, technically a private organisation, though its main shareholders are various European governments, mainly the French. ESA is a separate organisation, and if the Russians or Americans can launch their payloads more cheaply than Arianespace then there's no reason why ESA shouldn't go with them.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    5. Re:Where's Ariane? by Graabein · · Score: 1
      > Russia launch cheaper than ESA

      There's also the small matter of reliability. The Russian rockets just work, every time.

      --
      And remember kids: Never trust a computer you can actually lift.
    6. Re:Where's Ariane? by Doctor+Hu · · Score: 1
      Cost. The budget was extremely tight and Russia launch cheaper than ESA, even for ESA-run missions. It's a pretty strange state of affairs.
      Plus Arianespace was in the process of moving from Ariane-4 (well-understood, pretty reliable) to Ariane-5 (track record not particularly good so far) while the program was being planned. I'd say the project leads called it right. (In any case, ESA also subcontracts Soyuz launches from Starsem where that makes commercial sense.)
    7. Re:Where's Ariane? by Cochonou · · Score: 1

      Soyouz-fregat rockets are exclusively run by Starsem, which is a joint European (Arianespace, EADS) and Russian (rosaviacosmos) venture. Actually, the european fundings for the modernized ikar, and then fregat stages have been essential for the completion of the program.

      So technically, the ESA is not really phasing out Arianespace...

    8. Re:Where's Ariane? by corleth · · Score: 1

      Are you forgetting Mars '96, which was launched from Baikonur and crashed into the pacific ocean? Russia's track record for Mars missions is pretty appauling; so much so that I was pretty nervous during launch. Russia have had some great successes sending missions to Venus and the Moon, but their Mars missions just keep getting lost, blowing up, crashing, etc.

  26. Time in the US by Seekerofknowledge · · Score: 2, Informative

    I didn't know this at first, so I thought it might help. The launch time is 12:15 pm in EST. Very soon now.

  27. I think there's something wrong with Mr. Poslow by DrMorpheus · · Score: 2, Funny
    but watch out for vacuum leeks
    I didn't know leeks could grow in a vacuum. Well those damn, clever Welsh!
    --
    Debunking the "59 Deceits"
  28. Actually.. by MasTRE · · Score: 1

    > The launch will be streamed^M^M^M^M^M^M^M^Mslashdotted over the Web by ESA

    ---
    The revolution will NOT be televised.

    --
    Must-not-watch TV!
  29. In other words by 2names · · Score: 3, Funny
    so far all preparations have gone smoothly and the forecast is excellent.

    Translation: "Our Secret Soviet Weather control machine is working perfectly. Now, where are Moose and Squirrel?"

    --
    "I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
  30. First world aeronautics by heroine · · Score: 1

    It's amazing what all these first world countries can do. Wish my country was still in the space business.

    1. Re:First world aeronautics by Chris+Y+Taylor · · Score: 1

      Actually it was a second world country that built the launcher.

      Well, I guess there isn't much second world anymore outside of Cuba and N. Korea. So what do we call them? Former second world countries?

  31. Bork bork bork! by moody834 · · Score: 1

    Regarding our announcer: It's good to see that the Swedish Chef has gotten work since his Muppet days. (Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shut up.)

    Seriously, though, I am overjoyed to see this. If all goes well over the next few months/years, it's only going to get more exciting.

    Good luck to the venture and everyone involved with it.

    --
    /* * We did not get what we need .. we cannot sleep ..
  32. Nah, dude by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're getting it all wrong... Just like racial humor, it is only acceptable if the person making the joke falls into the category of people the joke is about. Therefore, only Americans can joke about America,and only the British can joke about Britain. Otherwise, people will be up in arms over it.

  33. video feed ./'d by MrSelfDestruct · · Score: 1

    looks like the site for the video feed was slashdotted at T minus 1:30 :(

    --
    Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps. -- Emo Phillips
  34. Success! by corleth · · Score: 2, Informative

    The launch went fine. MEx is in Earth orbit. The first major maneuver will be at 20:15 GMT/UT.

  35. Well it's off the ground by DrXym · · Score: 1
    It took off exactly on time. Fingers crossed that all the other difficult stages in its voyage go as smoothly.


    One notable cock-up was the UK's ITN news channel which had been advertising it's live coverage of the launch all day and just as it happened it cut to a commerical break. Professional journalism indeed. Fortunately the other stations also covered it.

    1. Re:Well it's off the ground by pe1chl · · Score: 1

      Oh but that is quite normal these days.
      The news channels are not about covering the things as they happen, they are mainly bringing studio chit-chat.

      Last saturday there was an annular eclipse of the sun. The coverage on BBC NEWS 24 consisted of many, many announcements that there would be coverage, numerous questions to the on-site reporter before the event, and when it actually happened they were running a recorded item. After the maximum they went to the reporter for 15 seconds and then chatted with a studio guest, showing the reporter in the background and the tiny sun in the background behind that...

      I'd say, when you are not interested in reasonable coverage then spare your reporter the trip and the viewer the illusion that they get something to view...

    2. Re:Well it's off the ground by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't see the live coverage of the eclipse as I was in the Yorkshire Dales on a friend's 50th birthday and retirement walking (or was that boozing) weekend, but I thought the "Sky At Night" programme on BBC1 last night was quite good as a highlights programme.

      What I saw of the coverage on Sky News of the Mars Express launch was amusing as there was initially a close up picture (which looked like a rocket from "Thunderbirds") which went totally white shortly after take off, accompanied by a explosion type sound. The commentary went silent (I presume disaster was thought of) until the commentary continued withe the studio expert saying that that always happened. I must admit that I thought that disaster had happened for a moment too.

      BBC news 24 coverage seemed to be OK too but ITV seemed to not be aware that the 1st British interplanertary probe was beeing launched today.

  36. Wonder how.. by UltraWide · · Score: 1

    ..many people that tried to watch this ... I got sound and some pictures in between.. =/

    Well Best of luck to ESA. I myself is from Sweden so I really hope this will work out fine.

    --
    I really HAD another userid .. I promise!
  37. Water on Mars by scalis · · Score: 1

    The ESA website states that "Beagle 2 will land in an equatorial region that was probably flooded in the past, and where traces of life may have been preserved."
    What I wonder is how likely these areas actually were flooded.
    I know they say there is a fair amount of forzen water on mars but other than that and the fact it "looks" like surface shaped by water, do they have any other proof of this? I am not trying to say that there were no oceans, im just wondering how they came up with "probably". I thought the scientists used the term "possibly" when talking about water on mars?

    --

    True ravers don't need drugs
  38. For those more interested in the delivery veicle.. by dvk · · Score: 1

    The link for Soyuz-Fregat is
    http://www.orbireport.com/Launchers/Soyuz_U-Fregat /.
    Interestingly enough, it's a new generation of launchers (well, an incremental upgrade :)
    that IIRC were first used in 2000.

    -DVK

    --
    "The right to figure things out for yourself is the only true freedom everyone shares. Go use it"-R.A.Heinlein
  39. They are replaying right now by UltraWide · · Score: 1

    They are running replays of the launch for those interested.

    Seems less slashdotted right now.

    --
    I really HAD another userid .. I promise!
  40. Re:Most intense period of planetary exploration ev by Ella+the+Cat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Drivel. Why is natural good? Disease is natural, old age is natural, dinosaur killing asteroids are natural, eating your offspring is natural. Any intelligent spacefaring species worth its salt would consider primitive spaceprobes cute and worthy of a pat on the head. As for the "scientists should think" remark, tell me I had a sense of humour failure and you're trolling, because the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.

  41. Le Pen got 16.9% by Yanster · · Score: 1

    on first round in 2002, a slightly higher score than what his party usually gets.

    What shocked the other 83%, as well as many of Le Pen supporters themselves, is the fact that it was the second highest score behind Chirac (19.9%), thus qualifiyng him for the second round against Chirac.

    The reason for this was the unusually high number of candidates: sixteen. Second round came out 18% for Le Pen and 82% for Chirac (results)

    I think that unlike Austria, this doesn't qualify for "almost". Goes to say that the US is not the only country to have a twisted election system.

  42. Looks good at about 1915 UCT by Doctor+Hu · · Score: 1
    BBC update here - or for the next day or so it'll be on the news.bbc.com front page.

    Textbook launch - well, that's what you expect from Soyuz - and now the departure from Earth orbit has succeeded as well.

    Fingers crossed. Hopefully there will be some wide smiles round about Christmas this year when we hear that "The Beagle has landed". (No offense whatever intended to the US lunar program: I saw the tv broadcasts of the first landing in the early hours of the morning when I was still at university.)

  43. User manual... by ctid · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I hope there are still some people reading, but not enough to slashdot this site. I was mooching around the Beagle 2 mission site and found a link to Starsem, the Russian company that provided the launcher. They have the user manual for the Soyuz-Fregat launcher online!! How cool is that? Caution, it's an 8MB download.

    --
    Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
  44. Re:Other uses for the powerful technology? by mikerich · · Score: 1
    Ariane 5 does not have an upper stage capable of injecting the craft on to an interplanetary trajectory.

    Soyuz has the Fregat.

    Best wishes,
    Mike.

  45. mod parent up funny by beldraen · · Score: 1

    At least I thought the joke was funny..

    --
    Bel, the mostly sane.. "Of course I can't see anything! I'm standing on the shoulders of idiots." -- Me